slamdunk
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Here It Comes!
- Thread starter slamdunk
- Start date
slamdunk
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>Real question...will this include shooting deer
>that come to feed on
>alfalfa? It's not there
>naturally and it draws in
>the wildlife.
Who knows what lines will be drawn if this plays out to become an illegal practice, but one would think that an alfalfa field in agricultural areas will be considered far more "natural" than a big pile of apples on the ground in the middle of the Paunsagunt.
>that come to feed on
>alfalfa? It's not there
>naturally and it draws in
>the wildlife.
Who knows what lines will be drawn if this plays out to become an illegal practice, but one would think that an alfalfa field in agricultural areas will be considered far more "natural" than a big pile of apples on the ground in the middle of the Paunsagunt.
hornkiller
Long Time Member
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Tree huggers have infiltrated inside everything outdoors!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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They gonna Ban My Alfalfa?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
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- 10,396
>Slam I'm gonna have to disagree
>with you. They are
>both man introduced and used
>to the hunters advantage.
With all due respect, an alfalfa field is made to produce hay for livestock. Yes wild game most definitely does graze in it by coincidence.
But dumping apples out in a sagebrush flat, miles away from any agricultural land is most certainly and deliberately placed there to draw and harvest game.
>with you. They are
>both man introduced and used
>to the hunters advantage.
With all due respect, an alfalfa field is made to produce hay for livestock. Yes wild game most definitely does graze in it by coincidence.
But dumping apples out in a sagebrush flat, miles away from any agricultural land is most certainly and deliberately placed there to draw and harvest game.
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
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Why would they do that ? But placing salt block and food on the ground is quite different than field attracting animals.
All you whiners about baiting are only hurting all of us, we are our own worst enemy. Pretty soon jealousy and envy will push our hunting heritage and opportunity right out the door. Good work fellas, let's regulate everything except keep those long range assault rifles in the field because they are natural and dont create an unfair advantage. What a joke!
Muley_73
Very Active Member
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- 2,786
Slam,
I guess I just see alfalfa growing at 7000 feet loaded with deer is no more natural than other forms of baiting. Go try and get access to a field like that. They are already leased. If a pile of apples holds a buck I guess I don't see it any different than a buck being patterned on any other man introduced food source. Apples just gives everyone a shot not just a landowner. Lots of others advantages that could be adddessed to lower hunter success. Just my thoughts
I guess I just see alfalfa growing at 7000 feet loaded with deer is no more natural than other forms of baiting. Go try and get access to a field like that. They are already leased. If a pile of apples holds a buck I guess I don't see it any different than a buck being patterned on any other man introduced food source. Apples just gives everyone a shot not just a landowner. Lots of others advantages that could be adddessed to lower hunter success. Just my thoughts
I never said I bait, I'm tired of the cry babies/hypocrites that hurt us all as sportsmen and women. Never killed anything over a bait, but I'm also not insecure and jealous when somebody makes an ethical close range kill shot on a big animal over a bait. That's what it comes down to. Rifle guys are envious of these giant bucks being killed with archery equipment. So go find a bear bait and eat a donut Homer.....
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
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- 2,153
First they came for baiting I did not bait so I said nothing.
Then they came for trail cameras I did not use trail cameras so I said nothing.
Then they came for long range hunting. I do not long range hunt so I said nothing.
Then they came for road hunters I do not road hunt so I said nothing.
Then they came for the way I hunt and there was no one left to say anything for me.
Then they came for trail cameras I did not use trail cameras so I said nothing.
Then they came for long range hunting. I do not long range hunt so I said nothing.
Then they came for road hunters I do not road hunt so I said nothing.
Then they came for the way I hunt and there was no one left to say anything for me.
slamdunk
Moderator
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Muley, I do understand the point you are making, but I don't think it's a possibility to ban a farmers field that has been producing alfalfa for decades.
Perhaps there should be a rule pertaining to proximity?
(I've often wondered about proximity to man made game crossing areas and tunnels)
Bocephus
Can you explain how to make a guy refrain from taking Hail Mary long shots at game with his 30-06 and standard $60 Bushnell scope when you ban "long range hunting"?
Perhaps there should be a rule pertaining to proximity?
(I've often wondered about proximity to man made game crossing areas and tunnels)
Bocephus
Can you explain how to make a guy refrain from taking Hail Mary long shots at game with his 30-06 and standard $60 Bushnell scope when you ban "long range hunting"?
callsalot
Active Member
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- 694
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-19 AT 09:51PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-19 AT 09:50?PM (MST)
I think everyone here is missing the big picture. We need to look at this from a management perspective. If a animal is in great abundance like coyotes, black bears, whitetails, in certain area's etc, then I say we can be as liberal as reasonable including dumping a million apples and carrots out for whatever animal you want if there numbers are thriving. But for you that want to keep you blinders on animals like mule deer are in big trouble and I'd hunt them with a spear as well as plenty of other restrictions to try and bring them back and when they come back loosen the restrictions up. This isn't about hunters vs. hunters it's about taken advantage of hunting by what's left to hunt.
I think everyone here is missing the big picture. We need to look at this from a management perspective. If a animal is in great abundance like coyotes, black bears, whitetails, in certain area's etc, then I say we can be as liberal as reasonable including dumping a million apples and carrots out for whatever animal you want if there numbers are thriving. But for you that want to keep you blinders on animals like mule deer are in big trouble and I'd hunt them with a spear as well as plenty of other restrictions to try and bring them back and when they come back loosen the restrictions up. This isn't about hunters vs. hunters it's about taken advantage of hunting by what's left to hunt.
If your concern is killing too many animals because of bait, then might I suggest we get rid of rifle hunting all together.
I do not say this being serious. I say it like this, if my bait is such a huge advantage that you rifle hunters can't accept, then realize your weapon of choice is a bigger detriment to the game than hunting with bait is.
Rifle hunting at 200+ yards is far less sporting than shooting over a bait pile. And that's my opinion that I am
Entitled to. The major difference??? I'll stand side by side with you to keep your rights instead of watching you fight against my rights.
I do not say this being serious. I say it like this, if my bait is such a huge advantage that you rifle hunters can't accept, then realize your weapon of choice is a bigger detriment to the game than hunting with bait is.
Rifle hunting at 200+ yards is far less sporting than shooting over a bait pile. And that's my opinion that I am
Entitled to. The major difference??? I'll stand side by side with you to keep your rights instead of watching you fight against my rights.
txhunter58
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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-19 AT 10:11PM (MST)[p]
Callsalot +1
Wow. Finally a voice of reason
I hunt over bait in Texas where we literally have a deer per 5 acres and can hardly kill enough
But I would never think of baiting an elk in Colorado for the reasons callsalot
mentions. Just like we don't have liberal late seasons when they are all down on winter range.
Dconcrete. Managing game populations is a difficult balancing act. You have to please archery, muzzy, rifle hunters etc. while not killing too many animals. Sure baiting should be allowed in some areas but for most western game under current animal numbers probably not. Do a search and see how many threads there are about: ?not enough animals?, ?not enough tags? , not enough trophy animals. And on and on.....
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Callsalot +1
Wow. Finally a voice of reason
I hunt over bait in Texas where we literally have a deer per 5 acres and can hardly kill enough
But I would never think of baiting an elk in Colorado for the reasons callsalot
mentions. Just like we don't have liberal late seasons when they are all down on winter range.
Dconcrete. Managing game populations is a difficult balancing act. You have to please archery, muzzy, rifle hunters etc. while not killing too many animals. Sure baiting should be allowed in some areas but for most western game under current animal numbers probably not. Do a search and see how many threads there are about: ?not enough animals?, ?not enough tags? , not enough trophy animals. And on and on.....
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Slam unlike you I dont want more regulation. Your cure all is to cut tags, limit opportunity, do away with baiting, trail cams, and on and on and on, but keep your sniper rifle because that's what you like and everything else is stupid. I'm not saying regulate anything, if you want to shoot long range then do it, but dont take opportunity from your fellow sportsman because of envy. Why else would you care if somebody throws a pile of apples out? You really think an invasive apple tree will grow and kill off the deer like you mentioned??? Haha c'mon man let's call it what it is. Jealousy and envy.
DeerMadness
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Why do Archery hunters need bait anyway ? Today's bows shoot really well compared to recurve. It is a choice they made to bow hunt. They get the early season and bows don't alert with a bang like rifles do. So why do bowhunters think they need bait ? Utah isn't just that problem also : it is auctioning off all the good tags, private ranches selling off tags on the farms they have, too many people hunting, poachers etc.
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
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Whitetail, duh !
Well since you're bringing up animal
Numbers, slam dunk, whom I respect, pointed out the paunsagunt. So tell me Tex....are deer numbers down there hurting?
You think the 16,000 archers in the whole state, whom few actually bait, are keeping the mule
Deer numbers down? Or is it the 60,000 rifle tags?
Just remember folks, before you get rid of others rights, just realize yours are next. If you somehow believe they'll
Leave you alone because you view your way as ethical
And righteous, then you know not who you're battling.
I'd encourage everyone to remember this is still the USA and even the minority has rights.
Trying to claim that baiting is keeping numbers down in the west, shows you don't know much about the west. Utah is one of few states that actually allow it. So which states in the west are animal numbers sucking in? Idaho? Can?t bait there except bears. Wyoming? Can?t bait there. Colorado? Nope. Arizona? Nope.
If baiting is so so so overwhelmingly successful,
Then tell me why your current state still
Has plenty of game as you pointed out? Shouldn?t you guys have gotten your numbers under control by now?
I have my own reasons for loving to bait.
Numbers, slam dunk, whom I respect, pointed out the paunsagunt. So tell me Tex....are deer numbers down there hurting?
You think the 16,000 archers in the whole state, whom few actually bait, are keeping the mule
Deer numbers down? Or is it the 60,000 rifle tags?
Just remember folks, before you get rid of others rights, just realize yours are next. If you somehow believe they'll
Leave you alone because you view your way as ethical
And righteous, then you know not who you're battling.
I'd encourage everyone to remember this is still the USA and even the minority has rights.
Trying to claim that baiting is keeping numbers down in the west, shows you don't know much about the west. Utah is one of few states that actually allow it. So which states in the west are animal numbers sucking in? Idaho? Can?t bait there except bears. Wyoming? Can?t bait there. Colorado? Nope. Arizona? Nope.
If baiting is so so so overwhelmingly successful,
Then tell me why your current state still
Has plenty of game as you pointed out? Shouldn?t you guys have gotten your numbers under control by now?
I have my own reasons for loving to bait.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-19 AT 10:36PM (MST)[p]Slam,
My point is that how do tell one guy he can't use bait when another hunts exclusively in areas that deer are pulled in by a man placed food source? You ban apples... do Heatons plant apple trees in their land? Can they hunt the deer eating those apples? Now you've introduced a law that only affects a portion of the general public. Or are you going to make a big push and pass a law that states no deer can be shot if it's eating a man introduced food source? Can you hunt deer on the way to eat the apples? Can you shoot a deer that is living in the corn? Can you shoot a deer that is leaving a field?
Nobody cared about baiting until a few big bucks get shot over apples. How many elk have been shot over salt, how many deer? Not an issue because it's not big bucks. Once it's big bucks everyone is concerned. If you're all concerned about more big bucks there are many many more options. Targeting apple baiting is like targeting plastic straws to solve the environmental issues. It's a false feel good flag and nothing else.
My point is that how do tell one guy he can't use bait when another hunts exclusively in areas that deer are pulled in by a man placed food source? You ban apples... do Heatons plant apple trees in their land? Can they hunt the deer eating those apples? Now you've introduced a law that only affects a portion of the general public. Or are you going to make a big push and pass a law that states no deer can be shot if it's eating a man introduced food source? Can you hunt deer on the way to eat the apples? Can you shoot a deer that is living in the corn? Can you shoot a deer that is leaving a field?
Nobody cared about baiting until a few big bucks get shot over apples. How many elk have been shot over salt, how many deer? Not an issue because it's not big bucks. Once it's big bucks everyone is concerned. If you're all concerned about more big bucks there are many many more options. Targeting apple baiting is like targeting plastic straws to solve the environmental issues. It's a false feel good flag and nothing else.
callsalot
Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-19 AT 00:21AM (MST)[p]My point above wasn't to be pro or against baiting but was to look at the affect of it as with anything. There is a lot of grey area already in game harvesting laws. What I was pointing out is I don't think its your right as a hunter to be able to bait. I could name a million things that I as a hunter "90% which is done archery" am limited to do. Why in some states can't I use a bow with a device keeping it at full draw, or have anything using a battery or electronic on my bow? Why do I have to limit myself to 3 shots in my shotgun and so on and so forth. My point was to look at it's impact on the resource. You may very well be correct that it has little effect, if this is true go for it I guess. But when you take it all in, baiting, game camera's, drones for scouting, high powered optics, ATV's, GPS, long range rifles it all adds up. I think we can look at baiting in area's individually but as a whole we as hunters will have to start limiting ourselves with all these items or soon we'll be waiting 10 years just to draw a shitty tag.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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Sure gonna PISS alot of Masturs off around here!
Problem is:
If We Make StickFlippers go back to Recurves!
If We Make LongRange Rifle Hunters go back to Open Sighted Lever Actions!
If We Make SmokePolers go back to Hawkins!
If We make everybody go back to Bushnell Spotters like My 1980 Spotter!
If We Ban Rangefinders Totally!
If We Ban Trail Cams Totally!
If We Ban All Wheelers/Side X Sides/Motor Bikes/E-Bikes/And Etc!
If We Ban All Scopes on any Gun/Weapon!
If We Ban Bino's & Spotters of any kind!
If We Ban Camo of All Kinds!
If We Ban CHUMMING of all kinds!
If We Ban Drones!
If We Quit Hunting Big Game Continuously & with Overlapped Hunts/Hunting from Mid-August through Jan/Feb!
And 'If' Game Herds start being Managed Properly & Not for F'N just Money!
Ya!
I'm Wasting F'N Oxygen again!
We are Our Own Worst Enemy!
And Every F'N one of us are Guilty in Some way or another of NOT helping the Situation!
I'd Deal with all the Bans!
But BY GAWD I wanna see it all Enforced!
I'm SICK & F'N Tired of the Honest Guy Gettin Shafted because of LAW BREAKIN BITTCHES in this State!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Problem is:
If We Make StickFlippers go back to Recurves!
If We Make LongRange Rifle Hunters go back to Open Sighted Lever Actions!
If We Make SmokePolers go back to Hawkins!
If We make everybody go back to Bushnell Spotters like My 1980 Spotter!
If We Ban Rangefinders Totally!
If We Ban Trail Cams Totally!
If We Ban All Wheelers/Side X Sides/Motor Bikes/E-Bikes/And Etc!
If We Ban All Scopes on any Gun/Weapon!
If We Ban Bino's & Spotters of any kind!
If We Ban Camo of All Kinds!
If We Ban CHUMMING of all kinds!
If We Ban Drones!
If We Quit Hunting Big Game Continuously & with Overlapped Hunts/Hunting from Mid-August through Jan/Feb!
And 'If' Game Herds start being Managed Properly & Not for F'N just Money!
Ya!
I'm Wasting F'N Oxygen again!
We are Our Own Worst Enemy!
And Every F'N one of us are Guilty in Some way or another of NOT helping the Situation!
I'd Deal with all the Bans!
But BY GAWD I wanna see it all Enforced!
I'm SICK & F'N Tired of the Honest Guy Gettin Shafted because of LAW BREAKIN BITTCHES in this State!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
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- 10,396
Bocephus, this has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy or envy, c'mon man. I am just as capable of dropping chum piles as much as the next guy.
You are complaining about long range weapon and pointed out that I happen to have a few and you're right, I do.
I drew the Paunsagunt rifle in 2016, took my 338 Lapua topped with a Nighforce NXS.
Yes I harvested a pretty cool buck on day 7.....he was 75 yards away. Elkass was there, he'll vouch.
I have never taken a big game animal further than 400yds with any "long range" set ups.
As previously mentioned in another post, I find it very ironic that all the states surrounding Utah have much stricter regulations for hunting big game, and the majority of us spend thousands of dollars and big chunks of our lives trying to get a chance to hunt them because the chances to harvest bigger bucks on public lands.
You are complaining about long range weapon and pointed out that I happen to have a few and you're right, I do.
I drew the Paunsagunt rifle in 2016, took my 338 Lapua topped with a Nighforce NXS.
Yes I harvested a pretty cool buck on day 7.....he was 75 yards away. Elkass was there, he'll vouch.
I have never taken a big game animal further than 400yds with any "long range" set ups.
As previously mentioned in another post, I find it very ironic that all the states surrounding Utah have much stricter regulations for hunting big game, and the majority of us spend thousands of dollars and big chunks of our lives trying to get a chance to hunt them because the chances to harvest bigger bucks on public lands.
How many here have joined the coalition to help
Fight the introduction of wolves into Colorado?
How many here have gotten a stranger involved in hunting?
How many here have donated money to help fight for conservation causes?
How many have taken very young children with them hunting and fanned the flames of hunting and pursuit inside them?
We are our own worst enemy and the antis will
Ultimately win simply because, they can all agree to be against everything. And there'll always be those of you who want to take away from somebody else in your own ranks and you'll never be able to see past the end of your nose.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'll
Always stand with you and fight for you. Arm to arm, brother to brother. We have a common enemy. You have your right to disagree with me. But you don't have the right to try and take away from me.
Anyone else see something wrong with this picture? I fight with you, for you, and you fight against me?
This is why the antis will won and continue to win. Same reason the anti gun crowd will eventually get their way too.
Fight the wolves. Fight the grizzlies.
And no, rogue, noxious apple trees won't be springing up everywhere, choking out the landscape forever more.
Fight the introduction of wolves into Colorado?
How many here have gotten a stranger involved in hunting?
How many here have donated money to help fight for conservation causes?
How many have taken very young children with them hunting and fanned the flames of hunting and pursuit inside them?
We are our own worst enemy and the antis will
Ultimately win simply because, they can all agree to be against everything. And there'll always be those of you who want to take away from somebody else in your own ranks and you'll never be able to see past the end of your nose.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'll
Always stand with you and fight for you. Arm to arm, brother to brother. We have a common enemy. You have your right to disagree with me. But you don't have the right to try and take away from me.
Anyone else see something wrong with this picture? I fight with you, for you, and you fight against me?
This is why the antis will won and continue to win. Same reason the anti gun crowd will eventually get their way too.
Fight the wolves. Fight the grizzlies.
And no, rogue, noxious apple trees won't be springing up everywhere, choking out the landscape forever more.
Bluehair
Long Time Member
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- 7,954
Wait till the lefty's find out you big meanies sit waterholes. They will whip a weapon free zone on you to make high school principle proud.
And who's the a-hole putting salt in front of their trail cams?
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
And who's the a-hole putting salt in front of their trail cams?
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
I was considering a Utah turkey hunt recently so I studied the regs. Guess what no baiting allowed! Hmmm wonder why? Maybe too effective?
Baiting has not been allowed for migratory birds for about a hundred years. Ag fields have always been exempted. Never heard anyone complain about any aspect of that law.
Baiting has not been allowed for migratory birds for about a hundred years. Ag fields have always been exempted. Never heard anyone complain about any aspect of that law.
Haha is that why Colorado is struggling with it and we aren't, they don't allow baiting. This fight has nothing to do with overall herd conditions it has everything to do with envy over some big bucks killed with archery equipment. If you say otherwise you are kidding yourself. I stand with Dconcrete, I'll never fight to take away a fellow sportsmans opportunity which is what most on this site push for. Good luck to all you rifle guys, didnt a few early hunts open this morning?
Muley_73
Very Active Member
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- 2,786
I'll ask this. How many of you have actually tried baiting deer with apples? Are you comments from first hand knowledge of the process and general results or are they based on assumption? I am going to guess that all of you saw a couple big bucks shot off of apples this year and immediately passed judgment with very little knowledge. It human nature and its damm sure the status quo on Monster Muley and any other public forum these days.
Why haven't you all be screaming about salt licks for years? Why are you not demanding high fences on the alfalfa fields if its unhealthy for deer to congregate on one food source?
More big buck got killed in all three season due to range finders than apples. That is a guarantee. So why aren't you all demanding range finders be banned....because you all have one and you've justified it to yourself.
Why haven't you all be screaming about salt licks for years? Why are you not demanding high fences on the alfalfa fields if its unhealthy for deer to congregate on one food source?
More big buck got killed in all three season due to range finders than apples. That is a guarantee. So why aren't you all demanding range finders be banned....because you all have one and you've justified it to yourself.
ELKOHOLIC
Very Active Member
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- 1,390
Bocephus, Who said these two contradictory statement? I'll wait.
" I'll never fight to take away a fellow sportsmans opportunity which is what most on this site push for."
and also said......
"Sniper I chose not to be in the DH program...I am a die hard bowhunter and just don't get much of a thrill at killing a buck with a gun from 150-1000 yards no offense to any of you longshooters. I have chosen to be a dedicated archer and the problem is why should we have to compete with diehard muzzleloader and rifle hunters who just want to be in the hills on the archery hunt? Give the archers the first two weeks of the hunt before the DH's move in to do their scouting. Pick your weapon and stick with it. If someone wants more opportunity pick up a bow and get serious about it. It sounds like you are passionate about bow hunting if you put in the time and was able to arrow a good buck on opening morning, why have the muzzloader and rifle hunt as a crutch? If you want to be in the hills you can hunt the extended until the end of the year for deer and elk."
You can say they are cutting into your piece of pie, but you can't say you equally support everyone's method of taking deer.
" I'll never fight to take away a fellow sportsmans opportunity which is what most on this site push for."
and also said......
"Sniper I chose not to be in the DH program...I am a die hard bowhunter and just don't get much of a thrill at killing a buck with a gun from 150-1000 yards no offense to any of you longshooters. I have chosen to be a dedicated archer and the problem is why should we have to compete with diehard muzzleloader and rifle hunters who just want to be in the hills on the archery hunt? Give the archers the first two weeks of the hunt before the DH's move in to do their scouting. Pick your weapon and stick with it. If someone wants more opportunity pick up a bow and get serious about it. It sounds like you are passionate about bow hunting if you put in the time and was able to arrow a good buck on opening morning, why have the muzzloader and rifle hunt as a crutch? If you want to be in the hills you can hunt the extended until the end of the year for deer and elk."
You can say they are cutting into your piece of pie, but you can't say you equally support everyone's method of taking deer.
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,605
>First they came for baiting I
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,605
>First they came for baiting I
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,605
>First they came for baiting I
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,605
>First they came for baiting I
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
>did not bait so I
>said nothing.
>Then they came for trail cameras
>I did not use trail
>cameras so I said nothing.
>
>Then they came for long range
>hunting. I do not long
>range hunt so I said
>nothing.
>Then they came for road hunters
>I do not road hunt
>so I said nothing.
>Then they came for the way
>I hunt and there was
>no one left to say
>anything for me.
#livelikezac
Nothing in that post contradicts the fact that I am an advocate to add more red tape to hunting or take opportunity away. If anything it strengthens my point. I will stand by that statement that the dedicated hunter program has ran its course. Die hard Archery hunters aren't competing with you on your rifle hunts or taking opportunity, I can guarantee you that. You are comparing apples to oranges. It does get old hearing majority of rifle hunters complain about quality, and quantity in this state. I hunt several hunts every year out of state and with a little work Utah is just as good if not better than our neighbors......but it may take a little more time, effort and opportunity.
huntindad4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,626
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-19 AT 11:17AM (MST)[p]So why not just petition fish and game agencies to apply a quota to each unit for each species. Open the season August 20 and close it when the quota is filled. Hunt any weapon any way you want....as long as it doesn't endanger anyones life or directly and intentionally interfere with another person's hunt. Bait em, shoot, em at night, from the pickup or whatever you want. It's about management of the herd....and according to some it's our individual right to hunt how you want.
Bill
People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
Bill
People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
Imagine that. Spent 2 weeks on the mountain. Come home and see the same lame arguments being tossed out.
"Afalfa"
So. Your telling me a food crop abnormally attracts deer? I agree it does. Same as apples.
Show me a single alfalfa field that is backpacked in, watered by hand and you might have an argument.
Txhunter is dead on. If we needed to kill off excess deer, then apples, corn, whatever.
Utah ain't Texas.
If you hunt deer in an orchard, THEN YOUR THE SAME AS A GUY IN A HAY FIELD.
But. I'll even throw this out.
Show me you maintain your Apple pile year round. Snow, spring, etc. I might listen.
Or. Do whatever you want on private ground.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
"Afalfa"
So. Your telling me a food crop abnormally attracts deer? I agree it does. Same as apples.
Show me a single alfalfa field that is backpacked in, watered by hand and you might have an argument.
Txhunter is dead on. If we needed to kill off excess deer, then apples, corn, whatever.
Utah ain't Texas.
If you hunt deer in an orchard, THEN YOUR THE SAME AS A GUY IN A HAY FIELD.
But. I'll even throw this out.
Show me you maintain your Apple pile year round. Snow, spring, etc. I might listen.
Or. Do whatever you want on private ground.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
'Hay' Hoss!
You Cain't even Spell Alfalfa!
>Imagine that. Spent 2 weeks
>on the mountain. Come
>home and see the same
>lame arguments being tossed out.
>
>
>"Afalfa"
>
>So. Your telling me a
>food crop abnormally attracts deer?
> I agree it does.
> Same as apples.
>
>Show me a single alfalfa field
>that is backpacked in, watered
>by hand and you might
>have an argument.
>
>Txhunter is dead on. If
>we needed to kill off
>excess deer, then apples, corn,
>whatever.
>
>Utah ain't Texas.
>
>If you hunt deer in an
>orchard, THEN YOUR THE SAME
>AS A GUY IN A
>HAY FIELD.
>
>But. I'll even throw this
>out.
>
>Show me you maintain your Apple
>pile year round. Snow,
>spring, etc. I might
>listen.
>
>Or. Do whatever you want
>on private ground.
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
You Cain't even Spell Alfalfa!
>Imagine that. Spent 2 weeks
>on the mountain. Come
>home and see the same
>lame arguments being tossed out.
>
>
>"Afalfa"
>
>So. Your telling me a
>food crop abnormally attracts deer?
> I agree it does.
> Same as apples.
>
>Show me a single alfalfa field
>that is backpacked in, watered
>by hand and you might
>have an argument.
>
>Txhunter is dead on. If
>we needed to kill off
>excess deer, then apples, corn,
>whatever.
>
>Utah ain't Texas.
>
>If you hunt deer in an
>orchard, THEN YOUR THE SAME
>AS A GUY IN A
>HAY FIELD.
>
>But. I'll even throw this
>out.
>
>Show me you maintain your Apple
>pile year round. Snow,
>spring, etc. I might
>listen.
>
>Or. Do whatever you want
>on private ground.
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,396
Hey Dconcrete, we may disagree on the baiting of big game, but I can assure you I do far more than my share for Conservation.
I am heavily involved with the MDF and also spend a little time and money with the RMEF and SFW.
I have posted MDF projects in the Utah forum many times, where were you? My last post drew zero replies or interest in upcoming year end conservation projects whatsoever.
I have given my personal free time and resources helping disabled hunters and have recruited a few youngsters into the hunting world, yes Sir I have.
And no, this has absolutely nothing to do with "envy or jealousy".
I am heavily involved with the MDF and also spend a little time and money with the RMEF and SFW.
I have posted MDF projects in the Utah forum many times, where were you? My last post drew zero replies or interest in upcoming year end conservation projects whatsoever.
I have given my personal free time and resources helping disabled hunters and have recruited a few youngsters into the hunting world, yes Sir I have.
And no, this has absolutely nothing to do with "envy or jealousy".
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,600
Holy cow there is some melodramatic whining here, it's almost as if some people think they'll never get a deer again.
Why are Utahns such bad hunters that they need bait when the surrounding states get along just fine without it?
And those tied up in the alfalfa discussion... It's easy, it must be there for ordinary agricultural purposes; a hay field is, an apple pile is not. As for salt, some stats ban hunting over salt, whether you put it there or a rancher did.
This isn't some nefarious scheme, it's the exact same law our border states have.
PS. I disagree on allowing baiting on private ground for the same reason other game laws (seasons, shooting hours, weapons, etc...) are consistent regardless of ownership.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Why are Utahns such bad hunters that they need bait when the surrounding states get along just fine without it?
And those tied up in the alfalfa discussion... It's easy, it must be there for ordinary agricultural purposes; a hay field is, an apple pile is not. As for salt, some stats ban hunting over salt, whether you put it there or a rancher did.
This isn't some nefarious scheme, it's the exact same law our border states have.
PS. I disagree on allowing baiting on private ground for the same reason other game laws (seasons, shooting hours, weapons, etc...) are consistent regardless of ownership.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,153
Grizz seasons dates are not the same from private to public.
If you are going to criticize Utahns maybe you need to be careful, you are a utahn.
If you are going to criticize Utahns maybe you need to be careful, you are a utahn.
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-19 AT 08:27PM (MST)[p]Well slam dunk, funny you should ask on those projects. I will put it simply. I donate a lot of money towards conservation. I have to pick and choose where I'll spend my time. And at this point in my life, money goes further towards causes than does me being in the field. Sad but true.
As far as grizzly and hoss go, the truths this. I've yet to kill a deer or an elk over bait. I bait quite frequently for my own reasons. I enjoy it quite a bit.
I don't need bait to kill a deer and I don't need a rifle to kill a deer or an elk or a sheep. I strictly bowhunt because it's my chosen method of hunting. I average 6 animals a year with my bow. Some on guided hunts and some not. The majority of my hunting is done myself on average tags.
Until you rifle hunters that are against bowhunting begin a huge push to end the limited entry rifle elk hunt in the rut, then you can't be taken seriously. Until you push to end any late season hunts such as the Crawford?s for deer, or some of the late season, winter range bull elk hunts with rifles, then you can't be taken seriously.
I'll say it again, you may not like my methods, and I don't like yours. But I'll fight for your right to keep your method. Some of you will do more damage to hunting than peta will.
Keep fighting to take something away from others. And see where it?ll get you. And take your argument about other states and stuff it up your pompous ass grizzly. That's akin to comparing the USA to Europe in my book. States were set up so they could govern themselves. But I don't expect a text book pompous know nothing Ass like yourself to understand that.
As far as grizzly and hoss go, the truths this. I've yet to kill a deer or an elk over bait. I bait quite frequently for my own reasons. I enjoy it quite a bit.
I don't need bait to kill a deer and I don't need a rifle to kill a deer or an elk or a sheep. I strictly bowhunt because it's my chosen method of hunting. I average 6 animals a year with my bow. Some on guided hunts and some not. The majority of my hunting is done myself on average tags.
Until you rifle hunters that are against bowhunting begin a huge push to end the limited entry rifle elk hunt in the rut, then you can't be taken seriously. Until you push to end any late season hunts such as the Crawford?s for deer, or some of the late season, winter range bull elk hunts with rifles, then you can't be taken seriously.
I'll say it again, you may not like my methods, and I don't like yours. But I'll fight for your right to keep your method. Some of you will do more damage to hunting than peta will.
Keep fighting to take something away from others. And see where it?ll get you. And take your argument about other states and stuff it up your pompous ass grizzly. That's akin to comparing the USA to Europe in my book. States were set up so they could govern themselves. But I don't expect a text book pompous know nothing Ass like yourself to understand that.
GLEDEASY
Active Member
- Messages
- 915
Competition and envy is sure pounding things into the ground.
There are certainly way bigger issues then baiting right? Unfortunately those issues are too hard to address and fix so let's push some feel good agenda.
I don't bait, let me correct that. I've put salt and apples in front of trail cameras. You'd be amazed how many deer I've seen in the area of my camera that I've not one gotten pics of.
I just don't understand why we want more and more regulation on things. It's certainly not going to increase your chances of harvesting a high scoring animal. I'm guessing that's one of the goals behind this? I guess it will give a short term feel good before we find something else to complain about.
There are certainly way bigger issues then baiting right? Unfortunately those issues are too hard to address and fix so let's push some feel good agenda.
I don't bait, let me correct that. I've put salt and apples in front of trail cameras. You'd be amazed how many deer I've seen in the area of my camera that I've not one gotten pics of.
I just don't understand why we want more and more regulation on things. It's certainly not going to increase your chances of harvesting a high scoring animal. I'm guessing that's one of the goals behind this? I guess it will give a short term feel good before we find something else to complain about.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,396
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-19 AT 08:44PM (MST)[p]So concrete, you think governing is all about taking something away from you to punish you?
If you do, then you just don't understand why rules were set up on anything we live by in this country.
Why have you separated us (archers vs rifle) in this discussion?
I've never once stated that it's only archers who bait big game.
And FYI, as a "Sportsman", I WILL stand and fight right beside you for us both and our methods.....I think we already do.
If you do, then you just don't understand why rules were set up on anything we live by in this country.
Why have you separated us (archers vs rifle) in this discussion?
I've never once stated that it's only archers who bait big game.
And FYI, as a "Sportsman", I WILL stand and fight right beside you for us both and our methods.....I think we already do.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,786
The same characters no matter what the topic. Let's blame the apples and not look at real issues. Hilarious and sad all at the same time. Most posting have literally zero experience or real knowledge of the subject but of course we are all geniuses on the forums.
Hoss,
To answer you're questions directly, yes I do know guys that set apples year round. Here?s an interesting fact also I believe he's done it for over 10 years and shot a total of 3 deer over the apples. Some areas I'm sure it works great others I think it's a complete waste of time. Just like sitting water, or a wallow, or a bedding area or an alfalfa field.
Again I'll ask, who's willing to give it their range finders? That will save more deer than banning baiting by a huge margine.
Hoss,
To answer you're questions directly, yes I do know guys that set apples year round. Here?s an interesting fact also I believe he's done it for over 10 years and shot a total of 3 deer over the apples. Some areas I'm sure it works great others I think it's a complete waste of time. Just like sitting water, or a wallow, or a bedding area or an alfalfa field.
Again I'll ask, who's willing to give it their range finders? That will save more deer than banning baiting by a huge margine.
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,114
Out of 50 states,, 22 allow baiting of deer.
Of those 22 there are a ton of restrictions.
Utah is probably the most lenient of all.
If Utah does anything it will likely be allowed ?only? on private property like most of the 22 states that do allow it.
Then the guy with the posted alfalfa will have the best of both worlds,,while everybody else will have to invest in a better scope, and range finder.
In the not so far off future,,,only those with the greatest love of hunting will have the nerve to become poachers.
Of those 22 there are a ton of restrictions.
Utah is probably the most lenient of all.
If Utah does anything it will likely be allowed ?only? on private property like most of the 22 states that do allow it.
Then the guy with the posted alfalfa will have the best of both worlds,,while everybody else will have to invest in a better scope, and range finder.
In the not so far off future,,,only those with the greatest love of hunting will have the nerve to become poachers.
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,114
>What does a bushel of apples
>weigh???
>
>I'm prolly too lazy to pack
>that. Maybe I'd leave a
>bushel or two on the
>tailgate - does that count?
>?
A bushel of apples weighs 48 pounds!
>weigh???
>
>I'm prolly too lazy to pack
>that. Maybe I'd leave a
>bushel or two on the
>tailgate - does that count?
>?
A bushel of apples weighs 48 pounds!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
>The same characters no matter what
>the topic. Let's blame
>the apples and not look
>at real issues. Hilarious
>and sad all at the
>same time. Most posting
>have literally zero experience or
>real knowledge of the subject
>but of course we are
>all geniuses on the forums.
>
>
>Hoss,
>To answer you're questions directly, yes
>I do know guys that
>set apples year round.
>Here?s an interesting fact also
>I believe he's done it
>for over 10 years and
>shot a total of 3
>deer over the apples.
>Some areas I'm sure it
>works great others I think
>it's a complete waste of
>time. Just like sitting
>water, or a wallow, or
>a bedding area or an
>alfalfa field.
>
>Again I'll ask, who's willing to
>give it their range finders?
> That will save more
>deer than banning baiting by
>a huge margine.
Im sure. There is always an exception.
Competition and envy.
Notice the few who always seek out some advantage, be it apples, FLIR, etc, always turn around and squeal about envy.
Tgen they ALWAYS say " we need to stick together".
Really? Did any of you come in here and say "thinking about baiting, how do you guys feel about it"?
No. They blur the lines, push the limit, THEN when it becomes public, and is frowned on, here they come running for the safety of "us".
"Im all for being in the same boat, I just wish the guys in the front would quit poking holes in it"
-Rinella
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>the topic. Let's blame
>the apples and not look
>at real issues. Hilarious
>and sad all at the
>same time. Most posting
>have literally zero experience or
>real knowledge of the subject
>but of course we are
>all geniuses on the forums.
>
>
>Hoss,
>To answer you're questions directly, yes
>I do know guys that
>set apples year round.
>Here?s an interesting fact also
>I believe he's done it
>for over 10 years and
>shot a total of 3
>deer over the apples.
>Some areas I'm sure it
>works great others I think
>it's a complete waste of
>time. Just like sitting
>water, or a wallow, or
>a bedding area or an
>alfalfa field.
>
>Again I'll ask, who's willing to
>give it their range finders?
> That will save more
>deer than banning baiting by
>a huge margine.
Im sure. There is always an exception.
Competition and envy.
Notice the few who always seek out some advantage, be it apples, FLIR, etc, always turn around and squeal about envy.
Tgen they ALWAYS say " we need to stick together".
Really? Did any of you come in here and say "thinking about baiting, how do you guys feel about it"?
No. They blur the lines, push the limit, THEN when it becomes public, and is frowned on, here they come running for the safety of "us".
"Im all for being in the same boat, I just wish the guys in the front would quit poking holes in it"
-Rinella
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,153
YES Hoss you are the only honorable hunter left.
What a freaking joke comparing hunters that stand for there right of hunting the way they choose too and is legal in the state of Utah too poking holes in the boat. What in the hell is your problem it is impossible for you too not take cheap shots at anyone that does not agree with you 100 percent get over yourself.
What a freaking joke comparing hunters that stand for there right of hunting the way they choose too and is legal in the state of Utah too poking holes in the boat. What in the hell is your problem it is impossible for you too not take cheap shots at anyone that does not agree with you 100 percent get over yourself.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,786
Hoss,
I didn't come running I just asked a couple questions to those that want to pass judgement without full knowledge. When I present knowledge you blow it off. I'm personally all for making BIG changes to better wildlife management. You?re content to keep over harvesting and then screaming about plastic straws.
I didn't come running I just asked a couple questions to those that want to pass judgement without full knowledge. When I present knowledge you blow it off. I'm personally all for making BIG changes to better wildlife management. You?re content to keep over harvesting and then screaming about plastic straws.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
>Hoss,
>I didn't come running I just
>asked a couple questions to
>those that want to pass
>judgement without full knowledge.
>When I present knowledge you
>blow it off. I'm
>personally all for making BIG
>changes to better wildlife management.
> You?re content to keep
>over harvesting and then screaming
>about plastic straws.
Did you read? 43% against, 35%for 22% no stance.
That ain't me out there by myself.
I read the guys like Muley post all about the dire straight the deer are in. Yet here's something that could help, but sure doesn't hurt, and we better not because an attack on one is an attack on all. They forget to mention, the "attack" is coming from US. Through the process US set up. And let's be completely honest. US is sick of watching the corporate interests in this state use Wildlife solely as a business.
This isn't simply about DC backpacking in a few apples. It is about the guides trucking in tons of them.
Same with cams.
No one cares about some dudes 2 cams. We are tired of the hundreds everywhere.
Add FLIR to that list.
Utah is completely run by special interests. The industry pushing the limits owns a group that owns the WB. These small attempts are an attempt to gain back a little control. The majority don't want to be Texas. The industry does.
DC packing in a few apples ain't nothing compared to what's being done. And Muley and notdon know it.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>I didn't come running I just
>asked a couple questions to
>those that want to pass
>judgement without full knowledge.
>When I present knowledge you
>blow it off. I'm
>personally all for making BIG
>changes to better wildlife management.
> You?re content to keep
>over harvesting and then screaming
>about plastic straws.
Did you read? 43% against, 35%for 22% no stance.
That ain't me out there by myself.
I read the guys like Muley post all about the dire straight the deer are in. Yet here's something that could help, but sure doesn't hurt, and we better not because an attack on one is an attack on all. They forget to mention, the "attack" is coming from US. Through the process US set up. And let's be completely honest. US is sick of watching the corporate interests in this state use Wildlife solely as a business.
This isn't simply about DC backpacking in a few apples. It is about the guides trucking in tons of them.
Same with cams.
No one cares about some dudes 2 cams. We are tired of the hundreds everywhere.
Add FLIR to that list.
Utah is completely run by special interests. The industry pushing the limits owns a group that owns the WB. These small attempts are an attempt to gain back a little control. The majority don't want to be Texas. The industry does.
DC packing in a few apples ain't nothing compared to what's being done. And Muley and notdon know it.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,454
Mossback would be using tranquilizer darts until the wallet boys could get to the deer .
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,153
Hoss show proff someone is trucking in tons of apples or any other artificial hate. I have never heard anyone that claims that.
Your real time trail cameras you keep going on about only exist with cell service according to the salesman at cabelas and the last I checked which was last weekend cell phone service is next to none existence in most of Utah back country.
Hoss you are so melodramatic when you post it is like reading a post from a teenage girl.
Your real time trail cameras you keep going on about only exist with cell service according to the salesman at cabelas and the last I checked which was last weekend cell phone service is next to none existence in most of Utah back country.
Hoss you are so melodramatic when you post it is like reading a post from a teenage girl.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
LAST EDITED ON Oct-09-19 AT 03:00PM (MST)[p]>Hoss show proff someone is trucking
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate. I
>have never heard anyone that
>claims that.
>Your real time trail cameras you
>keep going on about only
>exist with cell service according
>to the salesman at cabelas
>and the last I checked
>which was last weekend cell
>phone service is next to
>none existence in most of
>Utah back country.
>Hoss you are so melodramatic when
>you post it is like
>reading a post from a
>teenage girl.
I was calling home on the Wasatch. Above mill hollow.
I called home this weekend from both table top and Meeks cabin res on the north slope. I actually layer in bed, talking to my daughter on thistle flat up manti . Most of skyline gets service. And that's today. Im sure coverage will never improve.
Your simply wrong. Which you knew because your a smart guy and your read up meaning you've SEEN the footage on IG.
Your right. I can't prove an actual ton. But you can't prove otherwise can you. Seems the pics of trophy deer over a pile of apples is hard to come by. I wonder why? All these guys so proud of it. They post their pics of their guns. Packs. Knifes. Sxs. Truck. Tent. Water system. I wonder why not the bait?
If it doesn't work, and it's not an advantage why use it? And why specifically apples?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate. I
>have never heard anyone that
>claims that.
>Your real time trail cameras you
>keep going on about only
>exist with cell service according
>to the salesman at cabelas
>and the last I checked
>which was last weekend cell
>phone service is next to
>none existence in most of
>Utah back country.
>Hoss you are so melodramatic when
>you post it is like
>reading a post from a
>teenage girl.
I was calling home on the Wasatch. Above mill hollow.
I called home this weekend from both table top and Meeks cabin res on the north slope. I actually layer in bed, talking to my daughter on thistle flat up manti . Most of skyline gets service. And that's today. Im sure coverage will never improve.
Your simply wrong. Which you knew because your a smart guy and your read up meaning you've SEEN the footage on IG.
Your right. I can't prove an actual ton. But you can't prove otherwise can you. Seems the pics of trophy deer over a pile of apples is hard to come by. I wonder why? All these guys so proud of it. They post their pics of their guns. Packs. Knifes. Sxs. Truck. Tent. Water system. I wonder why not the bait?
If it doesn't work, and it's not an advantage why use it? And why specifically apples?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,396
>Hoss show proff someone is trucking
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate.
I'm confident you mean "bait, not hate....and I have a picture of big bucks (yes plural) feeding on a load of apples that were obviously hauled in by something way bigger than said "bucket" in one of Utah's southern LE units, by a person or persons sitting in a blind watching it.
And it is most definitely not on someone's agricultural land where apples are part of the natural habitat....not by a long shot.
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate.
I'm confident you mean "bait, not hate....and I have a picture of big bucks (yes plural) feeding on a load of apples that were obviously hauled in by something way bigger than said "bucket" in one of Utah's southern LE units, by a person or persons sitting in a blind watching it.
And it is most definitely not on someone's agricultural land where apples are part of the natural habitat....not by a long shot.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
>Hoss show proff someone is trucking
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate. I
>have never heard anyone that
>claims that.
>Your real time trail cameras you
>keep going on about only
>exist with cell service according
>to the salesman at cabelas
>and the last I checked
>which was last weekend cell
>phone service is next to
>none existence in most of
>Utah back country.
>Hoss you are so melodramatic when
>you post it is like
>reading a post from a
>teenage girl.
https://www.trailcameras.reviews/wireless-trail-cameras/
Last paragraph:
Keep in mind as you read the reviews and other information in this article that wireless trail camera technology is in its infancy. It will only get better and better over time.
https://www.cuddeback.com
This link is for NON cellular daisy chain cams. Meaning the cams communicate up and down the chain and then to a central computer or phone.
http://outdoorproductguide.com/5g-cellular-game-cameras-what-to-expect/
Perhaps, let me help you. If your source for reliable info is some dude at cabelas, seek info elsewhere?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>in tons of apples or
>any other artificial hate. I
>have never heard anyone that
>claims that.
>Your real time trail cameras you
>keep going on about only
>exist with cell service according
>to the salesman at cabelas
>and the last I checked
>which was last weekend cell
>phone service is next to
>none existence in most of
>Utah back country.
>Hoss you are so melodramatic when
>you post it is like
>reading a post from a
>teenage girl.
https://www.trailcameras.reviews/wireless-trail-cameras/
Last paragraph:
Keep in mind as you read the reviews and other information in this article that wireless trail camera technology is in its infancy. It will only get better and better over time.
https://www.cuddeback.com
This link is for NON cellular daisy chain cams. Meaning the cams communicate up and down the chain and then to a central computer or phone.
http://outdoorproductguide.com/5g-cellular-game-cameras-what-to-expect/
Perhaps, let me help you. If your source for reliable info is some dude at cabelas, seek info elsewhere?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,153
Hoss again what you proved is the technology of today you need CELL SERVICE to have live photographs or video from your trail cameras at home.
Yes hoss you can get service from different spots on most mountain ranges but be honest most of them spots is not where the big bucks and bulls are.
Hoss I do not need to prove anything I am not the one claiming tons of apples are being hauled in for baiting.
Again you are using the leftist game plan make outrageous claims about someone or something with no evidence and then make the one you are making the story up about prove there innocent.
And no I have not seen anything on IG or Facebook I have never been on either.
Yes hoss you can get service from different spots on most mountain ranges but be honest most of them spots is not where the big bucks and bulls are.
Hoss I do not need to prove anything I am not the one claiming tons of apples are being hauled in for baiting.
Again you are using the leftist game plan make outrageous claims about someone or something with no evidence and then make the one you are making the story up about prove there innocent.
And no I have not seen anything on IG or Facebook I have never been on either.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
>MM full of those willing to
>call out other hunters but
>unwilling to ever sacrifice for
>improvement of the herd.
>Classic thread for the classic
>crew!
Aren't you the same guy calling for tag cuts?
Let's get rid of the guy who is 25% successful to keep the industry that is 75%. Makes perfect sense.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>call out other hunters but
>unwilling to ever sacrifice for
>improvement of the herd.
>Classic thread for the classic
>crew!
Aren't you the same guy calling for tag cuts?
Let's get rid of the guy who is 25% successful to keep the industry that is 75%. Makes perfect sense.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,786
Hoss,
If we are unwilling to address issues that enhance success, including baiting...then yes I am that guy! I'm exactly that guy!!!
But actually focus on things they actually make a difference. Range finders. The #1 factor that increases success on rifles, muzzy and archery. Start there and I'm all in. But to act like apples being banned is going to make any difference is ridiculous. Honestly it is the perfect equivalent of Cali banning straws!!!
If we are unwilling to address issues that enhance success, including baiting...then yes I am that guy! I'm exactly that guy!!!
But actually focus on things they actually make a difference. Range finders. The #1 factor that increases success on rifles, muzzy and archery. Start there and I'm all in. But to act like apples being banned is going to make any difference is ridiculous. Honestly it is the perfect equivalent of Cali banning straws!!!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,396
The mere fact that so many people think all this is a farce and not happening, is even more alarming than the fact that it really IS.
I myself was in shock when I first learned of these tactics being used on public lands, and I've been guiding big game hunters for 26 years.
And if you think FLIR is stretching it, I was with a guy who had one last fall. Let me tell you, it's pretty cool being able to see a little rabbit that thinks he's totally hidden!
We as Utahns happen to live in a state where we have very little restrictions on hunting methods, while surrounded by states that do.
Year after year at RACS we kick, scream and cry for "more opportunity".
We have also somehow convinced our big game board that we need to be more "ethical" and allow us to use updated technological gadgetry to be efficient and lethal, all while we complain about deer numbers dwindling away.
We complain about Outfitters on public lands profiting tens of thousands of dollars off our public game and that we have to compete with hoards of their spotters and workforces while out in the field. We laugh and scoff at all the "flatbrimmers" taking over our hunt expo's, competing against each other so they can be the winner's of Instagram followers and make their own fame and fortune doing so.
Are we so blind that we cannot see the forest through the trees?
Are we so naive to even fathom that today's society in the hunting world will stop at nothing to become "popular" or "famous" off of hunting for social media?
Do we really think that the outdoor tech companies can't smell the future money and are frantically developing far better gadgetry that we currently have and use?
We see posts about people who simply don't want more regulations if any regulations at all on how they harvest their game.
Then I see posts from people wanting to ban long range sniper type rifles, go back to Hawken style muzzleloaders and more traditional archery equipment.
Who wins, who loses?
We are already under attack by anti hunters and we see stories and reports of trail camera's being destroyed or stolen, even tree stands taken down by liberals.
Is all this advanced technology gadgetry making that battle worse while we that use it praise it's existence for making us "better killers"?
Even the Boone and Crockett club and others have a questionnaire on "fair chase" before a trophy can be qualified and entered.
I know one of those questions asks if a two way radio was used to pursue this animal (we all know that is lied about hundreds of times)!
If I enter my 225" buck and deny the use of radios but do not disclose that I kept tabs on it prior to hunting season with FLIR and harvested it over a big pile of apples out in the desert, do I feel good about saying I harvested it with good faith and under "fair chase"?
When and where do we draw the lines?
Or as Utahns, do we draw them at all and brag about how cool our state is and how lucky we are to be "free from governing"?
I myself was in shock when I first learned of these tactics being used on public lands, and I've been guiding big game hunters for 26 years.
And if you think FLIR is stretching it, I was with a guy who had one last fall. Let me tell you, it's pretty cool being able to see a little rabbit that thinks he's totally hidden!
We as Utahns happen to live in a state where we have very little restrictions on hunting methods, while surrounded by states that do.
Year after year at RACS we kick, scream and cry for "more opportunity".
We have also somehow convinced our big game board that we need to be more "ethical" and allow us to use updated technological gadgetry to be efficient and lethal, all while we complain about deer numbers dwindling away.
We complain about Outfitters on public lands profiting tens of thousands of dollars off our public game and that we have to compete with hoards of their spotters and workforces while out in the field. We laugh and scoff at all the "flatbrimmers" taking over our hunt expo's, competing against each other so they can be the winner's of Instagram followers and make their own fame and fortune doing so.
Are we so blind that we cannot see the forest through the trees?
Are we so naive to even fathom that today's society in the hunting world will stop at nothing to become "popular" or "famous" off of hunting for social media?
Do we really think that the outdoor tech companies can't smell the future money and are frantically developing far better gadgetry that we currently have and use?
We see posts about people who simply don't want more regulations if any regulations at all on how they harvest their game.
Then I see posts from people wanting to ban long range sniper type rifles, go back to Hawken style muzzleloaders and more traditional archery equipment.
Who wins, who loses?
We are already under attack by anti hunters and we see stories and reports of trail camera's being destroyed or stolen, even tree stands taken down by liberals.
Is all this advanced technology gadgetry making that battle worse while we that use it praise it's existence for making us "better killers"?
Even the Boone and Crockett club and others have a questionnaire on "fair chase" before a trophy can be qualified and entered.
I know one of those questions asks if a two way radio was used to pursue this animal (we all know that is lied about hundreds of times)!
If I enter my 225" buck and deny the use of radios but do not disclose that I kept tabs on it prior to hunting season with FLIR and harvested it over a big pile of apples out in the desert, do I feel good about saying I harvested it with good faith and under "fair chase"?
When and where do we draw the lines?
Or as Utahns, do we draw them at all and brag about how cool our state is and how lucky we are to be "free from governing"?
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,454
How can you say no one is sacrificing for the herd Muley73 ? Do you hunt with everyone here ?
That is BS.
That is BS.
buckhorn
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,684
Good post slam.
I wasn?t going to comment on this topic but I can't help myself so here goes.
I am been applying for Utah limited entry deer for many years and I have accumulated 23 nonresident points. I am a resident of Nevada and honestly I too was shocked when I learned that Utah allows baiting and also allows high-powered scopes on muzzleloaders.
It really disgusted me.
I have always dreamed of hunting the Pauns for a big buck so this year after recently retiring I made the trips from Reno to scout it out. I have gone twice so far this year. First during the archery hunt and then again during the muzzleloader hunt and plan on going again for the rifle hunt. I have talked to hunters, guides and spotters and from my experience so far I don't like what I see. I also covered a lot of ground and did a lot of glassing. Sure there are some nice bucks down there but what you have to do and go through to get a shot at one really isn't my idea of hunting. There is a lot of cutthroat and unethical behavior going on. Most likely because the screwed up hunting regulations allow it.
The truth is unless some of these insane regulations change I really am not too excited about hunting there anymore even after all these years of time and money invested.
If baiting is banned. If scopes on muzzleloaders are banned And if trail cameras are banned I may again be anxious to hunt Utah.
I wasn?t going to comment on this topic but I can't help myself so here goes.
I am been applying for Utah limited entry deer for many years and I have accumulated 23 nonresident points. I am a resident of Nevada and honestly I too was shocked when I learned that Utah allows baiting and also allows high-powered scopes on muzzleloaders.
It really disgusted me.
I have always dreamed of hunting the Pauns for a big buck so this year after recently retiring I made the trips from Reno to scout it out. I have gone twice so far this year. First during the archery hunt and then again during the muzzleloader hunt and plan on going again for the rifle hunt. I have talked to hunters, guides and spotters and from my experience so far I don't like what I see. I also covered a lot of ground and did a lot of glassing. Sure there are some nice bucks down there but what you have to do and go through to get a shot at one really isn't my idea of hunting. There is a lot of cutthroat and unethical behavior going on. Most likely because the screwed up hunting regulations allow it.
The truth is unless some of these insane regulations change I really am not too excited about hunting there anymore even after all these years of time and money invested.
If baiting is banned. If scopes on muzzleloaders are banned And if trail cameras are banned I may again be anxious to hunt Utah.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
There Will Never Ever be Serious enough Changes To Fix/Improve the Deer Herd in this State Due to GREED!
It's Been Poorly Managed for 40+ Years!
Managed for Money!
Sure the Hell Not a Healthy/Quality Herd!
And I Quote:
"I Filled My Tag!"
"I Got My PISSCUTTER"!
"He's a Big Bodied 2 Point"!
"I Needed the Meat"!
Ya,All 30 F'N lbs of it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
It's Been Poorly Managed for 40+ Years!
Managed for Money!
Sure the Hell Not a Healthy/Quality Herd!
And I Quote:
"I Filled My Tag!"
"I Got My PISSCUTTER"!
"He's a Big Bodied 2 Point"!
"I Needed the Meat"!
Ya,All 30 F'N lbs of it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slam hit the nail on the head. unfortunately it's not just UT, it's all over. we are going to cause the death of our own sport whether we believe it or not. all of this is just ammo for not just liberal activists, but liberal politicians. sometimes by plastering stuff all over social media, we are just drawing unwanted attention and don't think they ani's aren't growing. we've gotten so good at killing, at what point is it no longer fair chase to the animal? I thinks we might already be there.
huntindad4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,626
And a few people were upset about that too.
Bill
People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
Bill
People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
Bluehair
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,954
The "outfitter" next door has a hunter sitting the alfalfa field right now ready to drop the hammer on a buck that spent the fall fattening up on my apples. His great-great-great grandpa did the same. I live with them all year and some happy hunter gets his fair chase buck....
I dump my extra apples in front of a trail camera sometimes. The only thing surprising is how unreliable it is at attracting bucks. The fawns love them.....and no, I have never shot an animal over bait (unless you call water or alfalfa bait).
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
I dump my extra apples in front of a trail camera sometimes. The only thing surprising is how unreliable it is at attracting bucks. The fawns love them.....and no, I have never shot an animal over bait (unless you call water or alfalfa bait).
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,121
Bottom line, baiting big game in Utah is currently acceptable and sanctioned by the DWR and is being used by a few hunters to harvest big game. But because there are a number of hunters, residents and non-residents, who think it's unethical according to THEIR standards, THEY are trying to make it illegal and force those of us who have ethically chosen to bait into hunting THEIR way (or not at all).
If this works, maybe, if we get enough support, we can force the students of U of U, Weber State, Utah State, SUU, DSU, etc. to comply with the on campus dress, language and conduct standards of BYU. Wouldn't that be great!
If this works, maybe, if we get enough support, we can force the students of U of U, Weber State, Utah State, SUU, DSU, etc. to comply with the on campus dress, language and conduct standards of BYU. Wouldn't that be great!
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,600
>The only thing surprising
>is how unreliable it is
>at attracting bucks.
Yep, hardly ever works. That's why outfitters waste all that time piling apples for their clients (some even have contracts with apple orchards). It's also why the surrounding states ban it, B&C has had to issue special statement regarding it, and some on MM depend upon it.
Here's some bucks under a neighbor's apple trees this year during archery season. Looks like a futile effort to me...
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>is how unreliable it is
>at attracting bucks.
Yep, hardly ever works. That's why outfitters waste all that time piling apples for their clients (some even have contracts with apple orchards). It's also why the surrounding states ban it, B&C has had to issue special statement regarding it, and some on MM depend upon it.
Here's some bucks under a neighbor's apple trees this year during archery season. Looks like a futile effort to me...
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,153
LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-19 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-19 AT 12:48?PM (MST)
Grizz you claim outfitters have contracts with orchards, give names show the evidence. I suppose they are trucking out to there sites by the truck loads.
You and hoss keep blaming outfitters name the outfitters, I would really like to know.
I am sure the only reason them bucks are in the neighborhood is because they can not resist the apples. (I question if they are really eating apples or just grass)
The only difference between natural and unnatural is.
Water is a must in order to survive.
All food sources are a preference choice in order to survive.
I really like the picture!
Grizz you claim outfitters have contracts with orchards, give names show the evidence. I suppose they are trucking out to there sites by the truck loads.
You and hoss keep blaming outfitters name the outfitters, I would really like to know.
I am sure the only reason them bucks are in the neighborhood is because they can not resist the apples. (I question if they are really eating apples or just grass)
The only difference between natural and unnatural is.
Water is a must in order to survive.
All food sources are a preference choice in order to survive.
I really like the picture!
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,600
^^^ No offense but your post makes literally no sense. You say you question they're eating the apples and not somebody's lawn? Then you say that their food is a "preference choice in order to survive"? Then why would they be eating the lawn around the apples?
The fact that they eat the best food to survive is EXACTLY my point. Baiters are using an artificial food supply to unnaturally take advantage of a deer's fear of starvation... and you consider it sporting, Fair Chase, and ethical!
You actually are going to argue these bucks are walking down the pavement in the middle of the day to this specific apple tree to eat the lawn underneath it? That's just ridiculous!
I do know the names of the outfitters and the orchards they contract with. I'm not naming them because they're doing nothing illegal and have not inserted themselves into this discussion, thus I don't feel it's fair to denigrate their name. If they break the law, or make themselves part of the debate then they can be rightfully called out for it.
I also have the names of guys and pictures of a giant deer killed that was totally hooked on apples for years (during summer and winter) before being shot this year. I don't support the "hunting" of an artificially fed and supplemented deer but I'm not out to harm anybody personally so I won't name them either.
If somebody does something illegal or it hits the public domain, then it's okay to discuss it. Until then, I'm not going to inject them into the conversation.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
The fact that they eat the best food to survive is EXACTLY my point. Baiters are using an artificial food supply to unnaturally take advantage of a deer's fear of starvation... and you consider it sporting, Fair Chase, and ethical!
You actually are going to argue these bucks are walking down the pavement in the middle of the day to this specific apple tree to eat the lawn underneath it? That's just ridiculous!
I do know the names of the outfitters and the orchards they contract with. I'm not naming them because they're doing nothing illegal and have not inserted themselves into this discussion, thus I don't feel it's fair to denigrate their name. If they break the law, or make themselves part of the debate then they can be rightfully called out for it.
I also have the names of guys and pictures of a giant deer killed that was totally hooked on apples for years (during summer and winter) before being shot this year. I don't support the "hunting" of an artificially fed and supplemented deer but I'm not out to harm anybody personally so I won't name them either.
If somebody does something illegal or it hits the public domain, then it's okay to discuss it. Until then, I'm not going to inject them into the conversation.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,121
LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-19 AT 02:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-19 AT 02:29?PM (MST)
>
>>The only thing surprising
>>is how unreliable it is
>>at attracting bucks.
>
>Yep, hardly ever works. That's why
>outfitters waste all that time
>piling apples for their clients
>(some even have contracts with
>apple orchards). It's also why
>the surrounding states ban it,
>B&C has had to issue
>special statement regarding it, and
>some on MM depend upon
>it.
>
>Here's some bucks under a neighbor's
>apple trees this year during
>archery season. Looks like a
>futile effort to me...
>
>
>
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
I really wish you would stop misquoting and misleading people. And I wish you would tell the WHOLE truth about B & C's baiting position statement. Your post is so full of holes, I hardly know where to begin, so I'll just start from the top.
Bluehair said baiting with apples is "unreliable" for attracting bucks, which it is. He didn't say it "hardly ever works"! Fawns really like them mostly because they are weaning and trying out everything that looks and smell edible. Does tend to like them as well, but bucks are much more skeptical of strange sights, sounds and smells and I've had bucks (and some does) either ignore them or back off and circle the waterhole I was hunting in order to come in from a different angle. Additionally, given some time, some of the bucks will eventually eat them too, which is what your picture shows. Those bucks have lived their whole lives feeding on the neighbor's apple trees 'cause that's where their mothers took them as a newborn fawn. But that scenario is a far cry from taking apples out to a location where the deer haven't ever seen or smelled one.
As for the B&C baiting position statement, it was published to explain to the members and the public their position on baiting based on the animal rights organizations' attempt to use the banning of baiting as a way of limiting and/or reducing the number of animals killed by hunters. In other words, the B&C Club doesn't like the animal rights groups to use the banning of bait to further their agenda, but I guess it's ok if you guys do their dirty work for them and further divide hunters in the process!
The total banning of baiting is a no win situation. On the other hand, the regulation of baiting via the number of baiting sites per hunter/guide, the amount and type of bait used, the location and distance between sites, the registration of sites, and possible baiting site fees is workable, enforceable, biologically sound, financially feasible and sellable to both sides.
>
>>The only thing surprising
>>is how unreliable it is
>>at attracting bucks.
>
>Yep, hardly ever works. That's why
>outfitters waste all that time
>piling apples for their clients
>(some even have contracts with
>apple orchards). It's also why
>the surrounding states ban it,
>B&C has had to issue
>special statement regarding it, and
>some on MM depend upon
>it.
>
>Here's some bucks under a neighbor's
>apple trees this year during
>archery season. Looks like a
>futile effort to me...
>
>
>
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
I really wish you would stop misquoting and misleading people. And I wish you would tell the WHOLE truth about B & C's baiting position statement. Your post is so full of holes, I hardly know where to begin, so I'll just start from the top.
Bluehair said baiting with apples is "unreliable" for attracting bucks, which it is. He didn't say it "hardly ever works"! Fawns really like them mostly because they are weaning and trying out everything that looks and smell edible. Does tend to like them as well, but bucks are much more skeptical of strange sights, sounds and smells and I've had bucks (and some does) either ignore them or back off and circle the waterhole I was hunting in order to come in from a different angle. Additionally, given some time, some of the bucks will eventually eat them too, which is what your picture shows. Those bucks have lived their whole lives feeding on the neighbor's apple trees 'cause that's where their mothers took them as a newborn fawn. But that scenario is a far cry from taking apples out to a location where the deer haven't ever seen or smelled one.
As for the B&C baiting position statement, it was published to explain to the members and the public their position on baiting based on the animal rights organizations' attempt to use the banning of baiting as a way of limiting and/or reducing the number of animals killed by hunters. In other words, the B&C Club doesn't like the animal rights groups to use the banning of bait to further their agenda, but I guess it's ok if you guys do their dirty work for them and further divide hunters in the process!
The total banning of baiting is a no win situation. On the other hand, the regulation of baiting via the number of baiting sites per hunter/guide, the amount and type of bait used, the location and distance between sites, the registration of sites, and possible baiting site fees is workable, enforceable, biologically sound, financially feasible and sellable to both sides.
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,114
LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-19 AT 03:36PM (MST)[p]
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,114
the regulation
>of baiting via the number
>of baiting sites per hunter/guide,
>the amount and type of
>bait used, the location and
>distance between sites, the registration
>of sites, and possible baiting
>site fees is workable, enforceable,
>biologically sound, financially feasible and
>sellable to both sides.
Elkfrmobove,
What you laid out above is pretty much
what most of the 22 states that allow baiting of deer allow you to do,,,more or less.
You did leave out one of the main restriction most of those 22 states do have,,, and that is baiting is ?only? allowed on private property.
Utah will likely soon put some sort of restrictions on chumming deer into the law.
The private property rule would be the most likely.
Although they did reverse their years long band on chumming fish not long ago so as to help the less skilled fishermen out,,,so who knows they may leave it in place to help the less skilled hunters out as well.
I doubt they would put anything in place that might help the deer herd.
>of baiting via the number
>of baiting sites per hunter/guide,
>the amount and type of
>bait used, the location and
>distance between sites, the registration
>of sites, and possible baiting
>site fees is workable, enforceable,
>biologically sound, financially feasible and
>sellable to both sides.
Elkfrmobove,
What you laid out above is pretty much
what most of the 22 states that allow baiting of deer allow you to do,,,more or less.
You did leave out one of the main restriction most of those 22 states do have,,, and that is baiting is ?only? allowed on private property.
Utah will likely soon put some sort of restrictions on chumming deer into the law.
The private property rule would be the most likely.
Although they did reverse their years long band on chumming fish not long ago so as to help the less skilled fishermen out,,,so who knows they may leave it in place to help the less skilled hunters out as well.
I doubt they would put anything in place that might help the deer herd.
Bluehair
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,954
>
>Yep, hardly ever works. That's why
>outfitters waste all that time
>piling apples for their clients
>(some even have contracts with
>apple orchards). It's also why
>the surrounding states ban it,
>B&C has had to issue
>special statement regarding it, and
>some on MM depend upon
>it.
>
>Here's some bucks under a neighbor's
>apple trees this year during
>archery season. Looks like a
>futile effort to me...
>
>
>Grizzly
I tell you that i live in alfalfa fields, that my outfitter neighbor is parked out my driveway waiting to shoot a buck (one of many) that fattened up on the apples under my trees, and that I have first hand experience ?baiting ? them, and you show me a picture of your neighbors apple tree. I can see i have some work to do. ?
So I have lived here in alfalfa/apple baitsville for 22 years. Almost every year i haul off bushels and bushels out of my yard. Sometimes the bears clean them all up for me. Oh, and i live about 34.7 miles from downtown Blanding, so I can see beautiful Utah from my house. And there are a few deer in da hood.
Whether that establishes any credibility with you is up to you. My comments pertain to my hood, so I can't speak about the Pauns. But let me make my point a little better. First, deer like an apple tree lots more than they like a pile of apples. And the apples ripen about the beginning of the rut, so a bucket of apples in December is a slightly different story than now.
As for this time of year, the bucks are far more interested in the does. So while im getting a chip full of does and fawns rummaging thru my apple pile, the bucks are busy with other behavior. Not always of course, but in my experience a buck this time of year is only slightly more likely to walk up and sniff a bucket of apples than he is a bucket of horse chit. In fact I believe there are better baits than apples but we can argue whether concentrated scents are ethical when we resolve apples.
I don't support baiting on public lands but I cant imagine more than 1/100th of 1% of deer in Tardlandia are killed over bait. My general beef with this thread is that some of you make it sound like we need to hunt in pairs to protect ourselves from the deer who will ambush us for the apple in our pack. It ain?t like that and your pile bucket of apples around here isn't that much of an advantage.
Bonus question: what changes more minds, Me making a logical argument that packing buckets of apples is a waste of time, or you putting up pictures of booners and implying that everyone can see that if they only want to pack the apples?
When apples are outlawed only outlaws will have apple trees.
I typed this on my phone so work with me on the spelling. Carry on.
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
>Yep, hardly ever works. That's why
>outfitters waste all that time
>piling apples for their clients
>(some even have contracts with
>apple orchards). It's also why
>the surrounding states ban it,
>B&C has had to issue
>special statement regarding it, and
>some on MM depend upon
>it.
>
>Here's some bucks under a neighbor's
>apple trees this year during
>archery season. Looks like a
>futile effort to me...
>
>
>Grizzly
I tell you that i live in alfalfa fields, that my outfitter neighbor is parked out my driveway waiting to shoot a buck (one of many) that fattened up on the apples under my trees, and that I have first hand experience ?baiting ? them, and you show me a picture of your neighbors apple tree. I can see i have some work to do. ?
So I have lived here in alfalfa/apple baitsville for 22 years. Almost every year i haul off bushels and bushels out of my yard. Sometimes the bears clean them all up for me. Oh, and i live about 34.7 miles from downtown Blanding, so I can see beautiful Utah from my house. And there are a few deer in da hood.
Whether that establishes any credibility with you is up to you. My comments pertain to my hood, so I can't speak about the Pauns. But let me make my point a little better. First, deer like an apple tree lots more than they like a pile of apples. And the apples ripen about the beginning of the rut, so a bucket of apples in December is a slightly different story than now.
As for this time of year, the bucks are far more interested in the does. So while im getting a chip full of does and fawns rummaging thru my apple pile, the bucks are busy with other behavior. Not always of course, but in my experience a buck this time of year is only slightly more likely to walk up and sniff a bucket of apples than he is a bucket of horse chit. In fact I believe there are better baits than apples but we can argue whether concentrated scents are ethical when we resolve apples.
I don't support baiting on public lands but I cant imagine more than 1/100th of 1% of deer in Tardlandia are killed over bait. My general beef with this thread is that some of you make it sound like we need to hunt in pairs to protect ourselves from the deer who will ambush us for the apple in our pack. It ain?t like that and your pile bucket of apples around here isn't that much of an advantage.
Bonus question: what changes more minds, Me making a logical argument that packing buckets of apples is a waste of time, or you putting up pictures of booners and implying that everyone can see that if they only want to pack the apples?
When apples are outlawed only outlaws will have apple trees.
I typed this on my phone so work with me on the spelling. Carry on.
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
wstrntines
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,843
The guy throwing apples out is investing time and money just like the rancher. I say leave it be and let people bait and let the rancher hunt the deer that eat his crop. If we want to start setting limitations, it needs to be on technology and weaponry.
"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
Hey grizzly!
Can You send me some Coordinates?
There's 3 things I Don't wanna do!
I Don't wanna Invest in Apples!
I Don't wanna Waste Time & Money Looking for Bucks like them!
And I Don't wanna Travel the Roads I Normally do when I Could be on that SMOOTH Paved Road Hunting!
>^^^ No offense but your post
>makes literally no sense. You
>say you question they're eating
>the apples and not somebody's
>lawn? Then you say that
>their food is a "preference
>choice in order to survive"?
>Then why would they be
>eating the lawn around the
>apples?
>
>The fact that they eat the
>best food to survive is
>EXACTLY my point. Baiters are
>using an artificial food supply
>to unnaturally take advantage of
>a deer's fear of starvation...
>and you consider it sporting,
>Fair Chase, and ethical!
>
>You actually are going to argue
>these bucks are walking down
>the pavement in the middle
>of the day to this
>specific apple tree to eat
>the lawn underneath it? That's
>just ridiculous!
>
>
>
>
>I do know the names of
>the outfitters and the orchards
>they contract with. I'm not
>naming them because they're doing
>nothing illegal and have not
>inserted themselves into this discussion,
>thus I don't feel it's
>fair to denigrate their name.
>If they break the law,
>or make themselves part of
>the debate then they can
>be rightfully called out for
>it.
>
>I also have the names of
>guys and pictures of a
>giant deer killed that was
>totally hooked on apples for
>years (during summer and winter)
>before being shot this year.
>I don't support the "hunting"
>of an artificially fed and
>supplemented deer but I'm not
>out to harm anybody personally
>so I won't name them
>either.
>
>If somebody does something illegal or
>it hits the public domain,
>then it's okay to discuss
>it. Until then, I'm not
>going to inject them into
>the conversation.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Can You send me some Coordinates?
There's 3 things I Don't wanna do!
I Don't wanna Invest in Apples!
I Don't wanna Waste Time & Money Looking for Bucks like them!
And I Don't wanna Travel the Roads I Normally do when I Could be on that SMOOTH Paved Road Hunting!
>^^^ No offense but your post
>makes literally no sense. You
>say you question they're eating
>the apples and not somebody's
>lawn? Then you say that
>their food is a "preference
>choice in order to survive"?
>Then why would they be
>eating the lawn around the
>apples?
>
>The fact that they eat the
>best food to survive is
>EXACTLY my point. Baiters are
>using an artificial food supply
>to unnaturally take advantage of
>a deer's fear of starvation...
>and you consider it sporting,
>Fair Chase, and ethical!
>
>You actually are going to argue
>these bucks are walking down
>the pavement in the middle
>of the day to this
>specific apple tree to eat
>the lawn underneath it? That's
>just ridiculous!
>
>
>
>
>I do know the names of
>the outfitters and the orchards
>they contract with. I'm not
>naming them because they're doing
>nothing illegal and have not
>inserted themselves into this discussion,
>thus I don't feel it's
>fair to denigrate their name.
>If they break the law,
>or make themselves part of
>the debate then they can
>be rightfully called out for
>it.
>
>I also have the names of
>guys and pictures of a
>giant deer killed that was
>totally hooked on apples for
>years (during summer and winter)
>before being shot this year.
>I don't support the "hunting"
>of an artificially fed and
>supplemented deer but I'm not
>out to harm anybody personally
>so I won't name them
>either.
>
>If somebody does something illegal or
>it hits the public domain,
>then it's okay to discuss
>it. Until then, I'm not
>going to inject them into
>the conversation.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
BLooDTRaCKeR
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,744
I always carry a bag of critter lick in my pack just to add extra weight to the pack. Kinda like putting a sandbag in the bed of the truck for traction!
What if my critter lick accidentally gets a hole in it and spills all over my hunting spot? Is this gonna be illegal?!
What if my critter lick accidentally gets a hole in it and spills all over my hunting spot? Is this gonna be illegal?!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
>I always carry a bag of
>critter lick in my pack
>just to add extra weight
>to the pack. Kinda like
>putting a sandbag in the
>bed of the truck for
>traction!
>
>What if my critter lick accidentally
>gets a hole in it
>and spills all over my
>hunting spot? Is this gonna
>be illegal?!
Hey BlooD!
That'd Be Accidental CHUMMAGE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>critter lick in my pack
>just to add extra weight
>to the pack. Kinda like
>putting a sandbag in the
>bed of the truck for
>traction!
>
>What if my critter lick accidentally
>gets a hole in it
>and spills all over my
>hunting spot? Is this gonna
>be illegal?!
Hey BlooD!
That'd Be Accidental CHUMMAGE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,589
So, let's summarize what I've learned.
A Bushnell of apples weighs 48lbs. Guys will backpack 48lbs into the backcountry but for no reason, it's no advantage.
Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa field, yet deer will leave it to eat his apples, but apples are the same as hay.
Only flaming libs dislike baiting. Utah has superior deer hunting to the surrounding states that banned it.
Pretty sure that summarizes the thread.
Sure seems to be a bunch of guys who out of one side of their mouth tell you baiting does nothing, while out of the other they are desperately trying to keep doing it.
Last. Still waiting for notdon to show us those pics of the deer killed over apples. It's no big deal, why is it being hidden?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
A Bushnell of apples weighs 48lbs. Guys will backpack 48lbs into the backcountry but for no reason, it's no advantage.
Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa field, yet deer will leave it to eat his apples, but apples are the same as hay.
Only flaming libs dislike baiting. Utah has superior deer hunting to the surrounding states that banned it.
Pretty sure that summarizes the thread.
Sure seems to be a bunch of guys who out of one side of their mouth tell you baiting does nothing, while out of the other they are desperately trying to keep doing it.
Last. Still waiting for notdon to show us those pics of the deer killed over apples. It's no big deal, why is it being hidden?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
Well Hoss!
There's way More Mastur's around than You Think!
The Bushell on their Back packing in gets them in shape for the Pack-out!
I Know a Guy that won't Buy one Damn Apple!
But He Knows where to Find a Few & Knows how to Move a few!
Question for all You Mastur's:
Once You Drop Your Load on Public Ground?
Do You Still Own Them?
Will efa be able to still Harvest His PISSCUTTER Without a CHUM Pile?
Apples just might be His Livelihood For Survival & for his Families Survival?(RAZZIN You efa!)But I Can hear them exact words at Future RAC/WB Meetings!
And Hoss!
Nobody is gonna Post Their Apple Bait Pile Pics!
Believe Me!
There's more of them out there than you know of!
I Sure as Hell Ain't Totin them where I Hunt!
I can barely tote Myself around in the Worst Managed Deer Unit in the State!
When I was Younger I Often Wondered How Hunting would Change in Future Years!
Well!
Here the F We are!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
There's way More Mastur's around than You Think!
The Bushell on their Back packing in gets them in shape for the Pack-out!
I Know a Guy that won't Buy one Damn Apple!
But He Knows where to Find a Few & Knows how to Move a few!
Question for all You Mastur's:
Once You Drop Your Load on Public Ground?
Do You Still Own Them?
Will efa be able to still Harvest His PISSCUTTER Without a CHUM Pile?
Apples just might be His Livelihood For Survival & for his Families Survival?(RAZZIN You efa!
)But I Can hear them exact words at Future RAC/WB Meetings!And Hoss!
Nobody is gonna Post Their Apple Bait Pile Pics!
Believe Me!
There's more of them out there than you know of!
I Sure as Hell Ain't Totin them where I Hunt!
I can barely tote Myself around in the Worst Managed Deer Unit in the State!
When I was Younger I Often Wondered How Hunting would Change in Future Years!
Well!
Here the F We are!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,114
>
>Question for all You Mastur's:
>
>Once You Drop Your Load on
>Public Ground?
>
>Do You Still Own Them?
Elk, when you steal those apples you better take the camera too,,, other wise you will be in for a big internet shaming.
Remember that guy that pointed his pistol at a camera,,,,stealing apples would be ten times worse!
>Question for all You Mastur's:
>
>Once You Drop Your Load on
>Public Ground?
>
>Do You Still Own Them?
Elk, when you steal those apples you better take the camera too,,, other wise you will be in for a big internet shaming.
Remember that guy that pointed his pistol at a camera,,,,stealing apples would be ten times worse!
Bluehair
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,954
>So, let's summarize what I've learned.
>
>Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa
>field, yet deer will leave
>it to eat his apples,
>but apples are the same
>as hay.
>
>Sure seems to be a bunch
>of guys who out of
>one side of their mouth
>tell you baiting does nothing,
>while out of the other
>they are desperately trying to
>keep doing it.
>
D- for reading comprehension but a B for effort for reading thru this mess. All I said was I live in the middle of a bunch of hay fields and have some apple trees. And I have the time to sit on the porch and watch.
I did my best to convince everyone that they should pack buckets of road apples into the woods. I did my part.?
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
>
>Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa
>field, yet deer will leave
>it to eat his apples,
>but apples are the same
>as hay.
>
>Sure seems to be a bunch
>of guys who out of
>one side of their mouth
>tell you baiting does nothing,
>while out of the other
>they are desperately trying to
>keep doing it.
>
D- for reading comprehension but a B for effort for reading thru this mess. All I said was I live in the middle of a bunch of hay fields and have some apple trees. And I have the time to sit on the porch and watch.
I did my best to convince everyone that they should pack buckets of road apples into the woods. I did my part.?
Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,317
>
>
>>
>>Question for all You Mastur's:
>>
>>Once You Drop Your Load on
>>Public Ground?
>>
>>Do You Still Own Them?
>
>Elk, when you steal those apples
>you better take the camera
>too,,, other wise you will
>be in for a big
>internet shaming.
>
>Remember that guy that pointed his
>pistol at a camera,,,,stealing apples
>would be ten times worse!
>
Hey cast!
I Never said it was Me moving the Apples!
But it Does Sound You have Experience at Doing Things in Sequence!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>>
>>Question for all You Mastur's:
>>
>>Once You Drop Your Load on
>>Public Ground?
>>
>>Do You Still Own Them?
>
>Elk, when you steal those apples
>you better take the camera
>too,,, other wise you will
>be in for a big
>internet shaming.
>
>Remember that guy that pointed his
>pistol at a camera,,,,stealing apples
>would be ten times worse!
>
Hey cast!
I Never said it was Me moving the Apples!
But it Does Sound You have Experience at Doing Things in Sequence!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,121
LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-19 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]>So, let's summarize what I've learned.
>
>
>A Bushnell of apples weighs 48lbs.
> Guys will backpack 48lbs
>into the backcountry but for
>no reason, it's no advantage.
>
>
>Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa
>field, yet deer will leave
>it to eat his apples,
>but apples are the same
>as hay.
>
>
>Only flaming libs dislike baiting.
>Utah has superior deer hunting
>to the surrounding states that
>banned it.
>
>Pretty sure that summarizes the thread.
>
>
>Sure seems to be a bunch
>of guys who out of
>one side of their mouth
>tell you baiting does nothing,
>while out of the other
>they are desperately trying to
>keep doing it.
>
>Last. Still waiting for notdon
>to show us those pics
>of the deer killed over
>apples. It's no big
>deal, why is it being
>hidden?
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.
It's sad that you only learned what you wanted to learn based on your pre-conceived notion that baiting is wrong.
Nobody has said that using apples as bait doesn't work! We've said it just doesn't work as well as you want to claim in order to promote the banning. Deer are individuals and some like apples while others ignore them or are even spooked by them. And I have yet to see an elk or antelope even try to eat them.
Mule deer are known to eat over 800 different plants, including apples and alfalfa, so it shouldn't be surprising that they may prefer one plant over another at any one time. Just like fish, one day it's worms, but the next day it's grasshoppers or midgets. Deer like variety just like you do!
I don't know your political persuasion, nor do I care. I just know your efforts to ban baiting will have the same results as the animal rights groups want, but will not give you the results you think it will. And your efforts to ban it are divisive as evidenced by this thread. You're willing to throw some hunters under the bus for no other reason than you don't like how other hunters prefer to hunt. I have yet to see ANY of you make a legitimate biological, financial, legal or logistical case for banning bait. It's all been social and emotional and that's a scary way to manage wildlife and hunting.
Also, each state is unique and has it's own Wildlife agency, climate, weather, wildlife habitat, public versus private land distribution, indigenous animals and plants, invasive animals and plants, human population growth, politics, etc. and doing or not doing something simply because it is done or not done in surrounding states is a juvenile approach to game management. A point was made on another thread that we're not Texas which allows baiting, but we're not Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, California, or New Mexico either which ban baiting.
So, who are the desperate ones? It was never an issue in Utah until you banners started complaining. And you're the ones who are doing the labeling, exaggerating, misquoting, mind reading, insinuating, namecalling and attacking, and who apparently won't even consider a discussion about coming to an agreement.
Finally, what makes you think I'm willing to haul a dead 200 lb deer or 600 lb elk 100 or 200 yards back to the shot site in order to take a picture showing you I used apples (or salt) as bait? First off, I don't have to show you anything since I'm not beholding to you! Besides, it wouldn't make any difference in your opinion of me or baiting. And, second, I have only taken two pictures of harvested wildlife and those were for the P & Y entries of my elk and pronghorn and I have no desire to take any others, let alone post them on this forum, so you can cross that demand off your list!
So keep on with your efforts to ban baiting if you think it will improve anything, but I highly suspect that NOTHING for you will change.
>
>
>A Bushnell of apples weighs 48lbs.
> Guys will backpack 48lbs
>into the backcountry but for
>no reason, it's no advantage.
>
>
>Bluehair lives heard to an alfalfa
>field, yet deer will leave
>it to eat his apples,
>but apples are the same
>as hay.
>
>
>Only flaming libs dislike baiting.
>Utah has superior deer hunting
>to the surrounding states that
>banned it.
>
>Pretty sure that summarizes the thread.
>
>
>Sure seems to be a bunch
>of guys who out of
>one side of their mouth
>tell you baiting does nothing,
>while out of the other
>they are desperately trying to
>keep doing it.
>
>Last. Still waiting for notdon
>to show us those pics
>of the deer killed over
>apples. It's no big
>deal, why is it being
>hidden?
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.
It's sad that you only learned what you wanted to learn based on your pre-conceived notion that baiting is wrong.
Nobody has said that using apples as bait doesn't work! We've said it just doesn't work as well as you want to claim in order to promote the banning. Deer are individuals and some like apples while others ignore them or are even spooked by them. And I have yet to see an elk or antelope even try to eat them.
Mule deer are known to eat over 800 different plants, including apples and alfalfa, so it shouldn't be surprising that they may prefer one plant over another at any one time. Just like fish, one day it's worms, but the next day it's grasshoppers or midgets. Deer like variety just like you do!
I don't know your political persuasion, nor do I care. I just know your efforts to ban baiting will have the same results as the animal rights groups want, but will not give you the results you think it will. And your efforts to ban it are divisive as evidenced by this thread. You're willing to throw some hunters under the bus for no other reason than you don't like how other hunters prefer to hunt. I have yet to see ANY of you make a legitimate biological, financial, legal or logistical case for banning bait. It's all been social and emotional and that's a scary way to manage wildlife and hunting.
Also, each state is unique and has it's own Wildlife agency, climate, weather, wildlife habitat, public versus private land distribution, indigenous animals and plants, invasive animals and plants, human population growth, politics, etc. and doing or not doing something simply because it is done or not done in surrounding states is a juvenile approach to game management. A point was made on another thread that we're not Texas which allows baiting, but we're not Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, California, or New Mexico either which ban baiting.
So, who are the desperate ones? It was never an issue in Utah until you banners started complaining. And you're the ones who are doing the labeling, exaggerating, misquoting, mind reading, insinuating, namecalling and attacking, and who apparently won't even consider a discussion about coming to an agreement.
Finally, what makes you think I'm willing to haul a dead 200 lb deer or 600 lb elk 100 or 200 yards back to the shot site in order to take a picture showing you I used apples (or salt) as bait? First off, I don't have to show you anything since I'm not beholding to you! Besides, it wouldn't make any difference in your opinion of me or baiting. And, second, I have only taken two pictures of harvested wildlife and those were for the P & Y entries of my elk and pronghorn and I have no desire to take any others, let alone post them on this forum, so you can cross that demand off your list!
So keep on with your efforts to ban baiting if you think it will improve anything, but I highly suspect that NOTHING for you will change.
