Hunting Ethics .... How close, is too close?

Founder

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
11,473
A friend (Blake) and I were BSing and he told me a story of his hunting this year. He has a favorite spot in northern Utah where he likes to glass and hunt from nearly everyday of the hunt.
Beginning last year, a guy he has known for a few years began showing up and sitting right next to him and glassing the same country. He's somewhat friends with this guy, but not tight. (I think they know each other through work)
And when I say "right next to him", I guess it's literally 5-6 feet. Ya!

My first question to my buddy was, "who's getting to the peak first?" My buddy says he's there before that other guy everyday, and wouldn't even go there if that guy beat him to the spot.

This dude/friend/work associate showing up tells him, "I won't mess you up, you have first crack". But none-the-less, he's sitting right next to my buddy and my buddy doesn't like it. He did this several days during the hunt last year before my buddy killed.

This year, same thing!! My buddy is frustrated, as he likes this dude, and hates to get mean and nasty.

My buddy has spotted some nice bucks from that peak, and killed a couple. I'm sure that other dude knows it. (Blake should have been better at keeping his spot a secret.....I know, that's what I said)

I guess Blake has made it pretty clear to this guy (without it getting ugly) that he doesn't approve of it, but the dude I guess isn't getting it or doesn't care.

That's all the details of the deal I know, but it just got me thinking about it wondering how others would deal with such a thing.

So my question is, how close is too close?
And what would you do if in Blake's situation?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
If I were Blake I would kick myself every day for showing him the spot in the first place.
I would try one more shot at telling him more forcefully that he is welcome to hunt the area but he is not welcome to be so close. If that didn't work I would leave the area for a couple years in hopes that the guy would get disinterested. When asked, I would tell this guy that you just don't see the deer like you used to and that other spots are a lot better. (downplay the area) I would also leave the area for a couple years just so the guy doesn't learn too much from me. If you are not there to learn from, the guy might not be able to figure the area out and will loose interest. He may also leave for lack of companionship as he might just not like hunting alone. Or if you leave the area for a while the guy might bring somebody else with him to replace the companionship void and then you have double the trouble in your spot.

My head is spinning now. Tell Blake: Good Luck!
 
Yes, his first mistake was telling his coworker the spot but don't make mistake number 2! He's got the guy right in his pocket and the coworker already said he will give your buddy first crack. I'd keep him on a tight leash and hold him to that. The minute you send the guy twenty feet away and he spots an animal...the dude is off to the races. He may be a bozo but I'd at least test him to see if he's a man of his word.
 
Good Point

Another thought: Blake should tell him that he has nothing against him personaly but that he just perfers to hunt alone. Then ask the dude to let him know when he is going so Blake can go to diffrent spot on those days. If the coworker is a good guy, he will not want Blake to have to leave and will also not show up after knowing Blake wants to hunt alone.
 
Listen Founder, you have already shot a buck from under someone, now you are sitting 5 feet away and glassing your friends spot?
I like how you are trying to disguise this as a story about a "Friend" LOL,
Just Kiddn ya.

I would ask the guy to move on, that is a little too close. I would be embarrassed to show up at someone's spot.
 
>A friend (Blake) and I were
>BSing and he told me
>a story of his hunting
>this year. He has a
>favorite spot in northern Utah
>where he likes to glass
>and hunt from nearly everyday
>of the hunt.
>Beginning last year, a guy he
>has known for a few
>years began showing up and
>sitting right next to him
>and glassing the same country.
>He's somewhat friends with this
>guy, but not tight. (I
>think they know each other
>through work)
>And when I say "right next
>to him", I guess it's
>literally 5-6 feet. Ya!
>
>My first question to my buddy
>was, "who's getting to the
>peak first?" My buddy says
>he's there before that other
>guy everyday, and wouldn't even
>go there if that guy
>beat him to the spot.
>
>
>This dude/friend/work associate showing up tells
>him, "I won't mess you
>up, you have first crack".
>But none-the-less, he's sitting right
>next to my buddy and
>my buddy doesn't like it.
>He did this several days
>during the hunt last year
>before my buddy killed.
>
>This year, same thing!! My buddy
>is frustrated, as he likes
>this dude, and hates to
>get mean and nasty.
>
>My buddy has spotted some nice
>bucks from that peak, and
>killed a couple. I'm sure
>that other dude knows it.
>(Blake should have been better
>at keeping his spot a
>secret.....I know, that's what I
>said)
>
>I guess Blake has made it
>pretty clear to this guy
>(without it getting ugly) that
>he doesn't approve of it,
>but the dude I guess
>isn't getting it or doesn't
>care.
>
>That's all the details of the
>deal I know, but it
>just got me thinking about
>it wondering how others would
>deal with such a thing.
>
>
>So my question is, how close
>is too close?
>And what would you do if
>in Blake's situation?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com


How do you think those guys in Wyoming felt when you did pretty much the same thing a few years back?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-12 AT 01:05PM (MST)[p]Public land is public land. Ultimately there is really nothing that can be done. If the guy wants to sit everyday on a specific rock and that rock is only a few feet from your friend then so be it. I would agree with other post. I would keep the guy on a short leash and ensure I had first shot. Really the guy obviously is out there for view, being outside and for companionship. If he was really there for some good hardcore hunting he would not be happy at all next to your buddy. It may be time for your buddy to find another spot harder to get to, that still affords a view. Or better yet,get the guy to shoot a dink, and get him out asap... If I was in the situation I would have just hunted further in or in harder spots, etc....

On the flip side it is always nice to have a set of hands to help out when you down a big one.... The real issue is what happens when the buddy brings a buddy who brings a buddy, etc...

i find that leaving an area for a bit means others will give up on it as well...
 
bowhunt and Foreman, you guys have bigger balls than me. I thought it but I didn't actually type it here. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-12 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]But I didn't sit down next to the guys in Wyoming and start glassing, I just cleaned up after they ran out of bullets.

I guess if you see it as the same, so be it. Can't argue with "duh". LOL

I felt bad they missed too. It's a great buck.

6879forum1.jpg


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Well!

Blake could tell the other Guy that the ClubHouse Ain't far away and Fondler & RUGSTER are always out and about in that same sittin spot lookin for new 'Buddies'!

Maybe Fondler & RUGSTER need to make a Surprise Visit while they are sittin Elbow to Elbow and Scare Him a little with some of that Club House Talk?





Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
>bowhunt and Foreman, you guys have
>bigger balls than me. I
>thought it but I didn't
>actually type it here. :)
>

If you thought it NVB,You might as well say it!



Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
Enough funny. Serious thread. When you're out hunting and see someone sitting and glassing an area, how much room do you give them?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Not much he can do....it's public land. He needs to keep his mouth shut !! Hunting ground is sacred anymore. It's like telling a buddy about a pretty girl that puts out...he's gonna go check it out and might just take his buddys place.
 
I wouldn't like it one bit!

Hunting is a personal sport and I would move on... but not until I gave it another shot and told the guy to find his own spot. I've had this happen before and the guy even got so close that he kicked my spotting scope over. That's when I finally had enough!!!!!!!!!!!

The posters who says "it's public and nothing you can do" are correct. Short of coming to blows there is no good option.

Blake's little buddy is certainly acting unethically but he's within the law (seperate issues).

This kind of thing is a mess and I hate everything about the situation!

Zeke
 
he is lucky so far that its just the one guy ,what happens when this guy shows up with 4 buddies,could get ugly.

all i say now when people want to know where i hunt is," in the woods left of the pine tree"
 
There Ain't No Secret Spots in TARDville anymore!

And NO!

It Ain't Funny!



Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
Become a nuisance really fast. Smear mud on his scope lens when he ain't looking. Then hope a big buck comes along.
I would move on.
Rutnbuck
 
*The Wyoming deal, you earned your way letting the Mule kick your skull in IMO. They cant shoot, thats their problem.
The other deal, I would have to say something. Yep, he's gonna be mad, but no since biting your tongue and being the only one mad. IMO
 
When the guy walks up and sits down that close I would say;

?Seriously, you going to set up that close to me when I was here first ??

Then, depending on where the conversation goes, I would let him know that I wouldn't do that to anyone, and if he insists on staying, I would say (politely)
?That's not the way I hunt?, and leave.
If he asks ?how far away should I be? my response would be ?at least ? mile?.
 
The last few years I've had the exact thing happen. I do know the guys and I've been introduced though other friends. I'm friendly with them and chit chat but I really don't know what their intentions are. I can assure you, even if they saw a monster first, they ain't getting to make the play without me beating them too it. I know the mountain way better. :)
 
"I can assure you, even if they saw a monster first, they ain't getting to make the play without me beating them too it. I know the mountain way better."


That sounds like it's a deal of who can run the fastest or shoot the quickest and is not my idea of a fun time outdoors like it should be!
 
Not my idea of a fun time either, but it's my spot and my mountain and I know it like the back of my hand. I'm younger I'm confident they wouldn't even have a chance and beatin me. I really have no idea if that is the way it would go down or not. Maybe they are just lookin for the leftover bucks that I'd pass on?? Luckily, we've not seen a buck worthy of having to find out what these guys would do.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-12 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]>Sounds just like founder on the
>wyoming hunt!!! Someone
>beat him to the spot
>but that didn't stop him.


Sadly, the need, drive, desire, whatever you want to call it, for some to kill a "big buck" completely overrides their better judgement. What gets me most is how they justify it in their mind that it's somehow okay. But hey, it is a "great buck", and that's what really matters.
 
Well!

I'm still lookin for that Buck of a Lifetime!

95% of the time I don't have anybody to contend with where I Hunt!

The chance of finding a Decent Buck in these places anymore is beyond a Joke!


I stay away from Several Good Spots I used to Hunt because TARDS have Invaded the Places & I can't/won't Deal with 'Orange Everywhere',They can have it,Sad part is,somebody will pull a decent Buck out them places each year,but it's Luck,not Skill,they can have them places & all the Un-Ethical Bastards that Swarm in there every year!

The GREED that's involved with modern day Hunting is Un-Real!

Just for a Joke,I'd like the GPS Coordinates of Blakes Special Spot?

Wonder what He'd think if I/3rd Guy showed up and said:Looks like a Good Place I believe I'll sit in between you two!





Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
Hey wet_boob!

Fondler said to Quit being Mean!

Did you hear him?

You Ain't Funny Either!

Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
Founder,

How would you have liked them wyoming boys next to you in Colorado this year? Maybe it would have been good, maybe they could have cleaned up for you :)

I see no difference than what you described and what you said happened in wyoming.
 
"He's somewhat friends with this guy, but not tight. (I think they know each other through work)"

There's more here that's at play or this "somewhat friends" wouldn't be part of the information provide.

Is there more to this than just hunter ethics?

People who wonder how to discuss conflicts openly or directly usually have some reason for holding back. Unless your afraid (of some unstated consequence) to lay out your frustrations to the other party, get over it and share the spot or go find a different vantage point, without letting him know the new location.

Maybe the other guy is on another hunting forum asking: Is It Ethical To "Claim" A Piece Of Public Land For Yourself"

You might ask the Native Americans (about hunter ethics) that hunted that location before we showed up. Just saying............
 
Not sure why your give Founder crap for the Wyoming buck. If you have hunted Wyoming Region G you would realize its big country. If you don't make the first shot count most of the time the buck will be gone. There is no reason to hold back on a shot after another group misses. The majority of the time the bucks will head for thick cover after being shot at and no one will get them. The guys that missed are just pour sports.

If I missed and then the next guy dropped him that would be fine with me, I had my chance.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-12 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]That would depend on whether he was set up fairly close to the others who were there first and missed or if he was set up quite a ways off when he shot the buck. It sounds like it was much closer than I would think is appropriate and I would not knowingly set up to watch an area where someone else is already set up and watching. That is not what I would call ethical even if it's legal. That's why you need a backup plan and a backup plan to the backup plan IMHO.
 
Have the same type problem and used to get mad about it.
It's public land and there is not much you can do about it unless you catch them doing illegal crap.
Now I just use there lack of hunting skills to my benefit since I know the terrain better.
Best,
Jerry
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-12
>AT 08:56?PM (MST)
>
>That would depend on whether he
>was set up fairly close
>to the others who were
>there first and missed or
>if he was set up
>quite a ways off when
>he shot the buck.
>It sounds like it was
>much closer than I would
>think is appropriate and I
>would not knowingly set up
>to watch an area where
>someone else is already set
>up and watching. That
>is not what I would
>call ethical even if it's
>legal. That's why you
>need a backup plan and
>a backup plan to the
>backup plan IMHO.

Why does it matter. We all have access to a mountain and it simply does not matter. The guys had their shot and blew it. It does not matter if he was 10 yards or a 100 yards away. But since your so ethical obviously your ethical, I wonder where the heck you hunt that you can't find anyone around??? Seriously it does not take much to country to get big and in a region like WY G there are not many places where a guy can sit and see country that no one else is looking at unless your really getting after it or your really luck...

Why u bashing the guy that made the shot count when it mattered. Its not like he hit their guns with a hammer or tied their boots together etc... The other guys were only butt hurt cause they screwed up and someone else capitalized on that... I also wonder how many times you have sat and watch and animal sneak within a 100 yards of a hunter and the hunter never sees it, even sitting a 100 yards from a person can give you and entirely different view.
 
One thing you all may not realize, not everyone has the ability to understand subtle hints, and frankly, with greater personality disorders, even blatant statements and requests fall on deaf ears. I think it is entirely possible that the "friend" does not understand the concept of boundaries. In fact, I think it is pretty obvious the guy doesn't understand boundaries.

As for what I would do- I'm afraid I would just hunt elsewhere. Maybe not too far, but not in the same spot. Maybe he shows up once, I'm not there, and he never goes back...

Another thing- I've never heard Founder's WY buck story, but it looks like a bruiser, and it sounds like the other dudes ran out of ammo... If that's how it went down, I'm pretty sure I'd be up next and shooting...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
The tough deal for my buddy is that he's been hunting/glassing from that same spot for 10 of the last 11 years. It's just a bummer for him to have to give up on it. I think it produces pretty well for him.

As for my Wyoming hunt, it's nothing at all like my buddies deal. I think it's quite obvious if one read both stories. Again, can't argue with "duh".

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
That ain't the first time. I have experienced many good things that I like to attribute to good KARMA. I've been very lucky in life. What are the odds I turned that buck up on my last day of scouting, then went back in a got him? Again, bummer for the other dudes, but I do agree with you and like to think that the 9 mile backpack trip in there on that last scouting trip brought the great karma. And taking the horseshoe aside the head.

I still remember stopping about 1 mile into that 9 mile backpack trip and trying to tape up all the blisters that were already forming and contemplating going back to the car. That was a long 9 miles, let me tell you. But when I walked over the ridge and saw that slug feeding across the canyon, I was so excited!!!! I knew he was 30 inches wide.
Then, after getting kicked on the way in, I remember how hard it was to remember how to get into that spot. Neither my dad or buddy knew where we were even going. I had to seriously focus so hard on which direction to go on the trail. I had a serious dang concussion!!

Good karma, I like to think so. I've pretty darn lucky.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Ide make a bet that the guy hunting next to your friend is playing dumb. He doesnt care for your friends opinion because he knows hes not breaking any laws and he doesnt want to go look for a new area that produces. If Blake stops hunting this area, he has Lost! This guy is not going to stop hunting your friends spot if your friend stops showing.

Ide just try to down-play the area and maybe let him know about the freaky cat and bear encounters you have when your hiking in in the dark.
 
My guess is your buddies "friend" is wanting the spot for himself and is just waiting for your friend to throw in the towel.
 
>The tough deal for my buddy
>is that he's been hunting/glassing
>from that same spot for
>10 of the last 11
>years. It's just a bummer
>for him to have to
>give up on it. I
>think it produces pretty well
>for him.
>
>As for my Wyoming hunt, it's
>nothing at all like my
>buddies deal. I think it's
>quite obvious if one read
>both stories. Again, can't argue
>with "duh".
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com


Only 10-11 years?

I can show you Spots I hunted for over 20 years that are now JUNK due to TARD Mentality!

It might Piss you off,I know it does me a little,But I/We don't own that GAWD-DAMNED Mountain!

There are Too many TARDS in this world & getting more by the Season!

Unless they are DH's,I'd bet it ain't long before one of them doesn't get a Tag & nobody will have to worry about it!




Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
>
>
>Also can't argue with "karma" coming
>in the form of a
>horseshoe to the face!!!
> "Duh" !!!

JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST wet_boot!

An Ass got kicked by an Ass,get over it!

You just gotta keep 'Rubbin it' don't Ya?




Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!:D
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
 
I guess where some hunt it may not be possible to get away from the crowd. Where I hunt it's a nonmotorized area and I can walk in off the only road that has access to the area for about 1 1/2 miles and I have the place to myself. Once in a while someone else will come in there and if they are within view I just go in deeper. Sorry, but I would have no fun and feel it's unethical for someone to set up within pissing distance of another if they know they are there.
 
I love the Wyo deer story, its our favorite one to tell. We dont own any deeror ground and our guys shouldnt have missed (it doesnt happen very often contrary to popular belief). But I dont sit down next to someone I dont know and start shooting, and when taken somewhere you should ask to go back or wait to be invited its the "hunters code" I think. For all you that say its public land and it wouldnt bother you, your full of ##### or its never hapened to you one or the other
 
Did Blake take him there at some point? Or did he just happen to end up in the same area?

Either way, I don't like to hunt the same canyon as someone else since this usually means that you are hunting the same deer. If I see someone else hunting a canyon I try to move on. But I have been in situations where we were surrounded by people no matter where we went.

Blake, needs to straight up tell the guy to find another spot if he took him there. If he didn't and the guy found it on his own then I would just make the best of it and work with the guy.
 
This has happened to me before. I even got mean with my buddy, but he kept showing up. Eventually I found new better places to hunt where no one can find me except my girlfriend.
 
Sounds like the guy is a work friend but not someone he spends time with outside of work. That makes this a political situation. He risks offending the other guy and creating tension at work. If Blake is the one who took him there the first time, then he brought it on himself and can't really request that the guy stop coming there. If the other guy found it on his own, then he also can't ask him to stop hunting there. Blake should have said something the first time it happened. His silence on the matter is as good as permission.

About the only thing he can do is explain that he would rather hunt alone and that maybe they could discuss hunting plans so that they can avoid competing with one another. He should also request that he not reveal the location to other hunters. Or make a deal that the first person to arrive on the spot gets first crack a a deer regardless of who spots it. Blake should ask himself if it is really so bad having the guy there if he will always allow Blake the first shot.

If Blake is upset primarily because of the lack of solitude then he needs to explain that to his work 'friend'.

How close is too close? If I can see you, you are too close. even if that means 2 miles across a canyon. But I understand that just because I can see you doesn't mean you can see me, so I won't be angry unless someone sees me and proceeds to hunt within a few hundred yards of me. If I can, I'll find a way to use their intrusion as an opportunity for me intercept any deer that they spook and can't see.
 

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