Hyde park buck update with pic?

U

UtahMountainMan

Active Member
Messages
246
Hey guys I have been following the Mystery of the Disappearing Hyde Park Buck story like many others. I live a few hours south of there and I have never seen thr buck in person so I am not someone who knows anything specific about the buck.

BUT I follow Muley Freak on facebook and they have a pic up showing what they say is the Hyde Park buck being held by a guy they claim is the poacher. They don't give a name or details.

I don't know if I want to put the pic up here since I don't have permission and I havr not read details on the guy who is being accused.

Can some of you guys who know the Hyde Park buck check the Muley Freak page and see if u think its the same buck?

Interesting....

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
LOL, I just copy and posted the pick under the WTH! thread :)

As far as info, nope don't have a clue but if its on FB then it can be on MM's...

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos2/8062image.jpg Here's your evidence to prove it. I am one of the people who did see him after the hunt ended in city limits. Many others can attest to the same thing. "I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"
 
The reason I made this post was to see if u guys thought it was the same buck. U think it is?

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
6014image.jpg

Same buck?? Uhh yes.
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"
 
>So much for the wandering about
>and doing what deer do
>comments from the gip <-----.
>


***Yep, now we'll see if the DWR has good witness statements that the buck was seen after the season closed so a couple members can be shown how the law works!
 
There are many witnesses that seen that buck alive near the stake center in November. Just a matter of time now.
 
Witnesses can say what they want, but it won't hold up without more proof. This picture was taken Nov 1st, at 3:09 pm. Thats 5 days after the season ended. So no one saying they saw the deer after Nov 1st is credible. Now what is needed is a live photo taken after 5:30 on Oct 27th. So far, I haven't seen one.

Yelum

Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
 
I'm not even going to comment on the picture of the dude with the deer. Last time I commented and stirred the soup regarding an internet picture I got my ass-et.
x(

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup, I just stir it.[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]The lastest I have heard, they are collecting information and evidence.

SO Yellum you said the picture is November 1st. If he didn't do anything with changing the camera date. Why would someone not cape out a world class buck before 5 days after he shot it?? Wouldn't he want to take good care of the cape?
 
hunting, no, that don't make sense to hang the deer for 5 days, then cape it. The pic was taken with his iphone, or someones. date could have been changed. lots of un answered questions.

Yelum

Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
 
It would be interesting to see if the guy had any field photos...and where they were taken.
I suspect that if that deer was legally shot by any of us, we'd make damn sure we had some great kill-site photos to celebrate the life of such a great buck!
I hope the guy is legit but if he's not, I hope he gets hammered (not slapped) by the long arm of the law!
Great buck, crappy cloud over his demise though.
Zeke
 
That's quite the caping job there. He must have been thinking about doing a full body mount. Maybe mount some kids bigwheel next to him like in his natural habitat.
 
Zeke,
YEs, If I shot a buck like that I would have called the fish and game and verified the tracks, blood trail, gut pile, eye witness,gps coordiantes, etc. etc.
 
>Zeke,
>YEs, If I shot a buck
>like that I would have
>called the fish and game
>and verified the tracks, blood
>trail, gut pile, eye witness,gps
>coordiantes, etc. etc.


Ya, like the hunter did with the cemetery buck!
I'd have them for proof and for celebration!!!!

Zeke
 
Email me the original photo to [email protected] I will check the meta data and tell you exactly when the photo was taken. I phones have a internal date that is set off the signal by default you can change the date and time to whatever you would like however most novice users will never figure it out without calling apple or knowing a thing or two about phones. But I can tell you one thing I can definitely tell you up to GPS location with the original photo. Just a FYI Facebook, Twitter, and most other social networking sites wipe the meta data off photos before they are posted. Therefore it will make it harder to find but not impossible. But I can guarantee that its fishy if the man waited 5 days to cape the thing for photos, hell when I took my first nice buck I had taken 20 pictures and posted them to FB before leaving the site of kill.
 
This guy 100% without a doubt poached this deer. This deer was seen after hunt ended and I sure hope there are pics to prove it. If this guy was legit he would have called fish and game to have them verify a legal kill on such a famous city buck. If it smells like a turd, tastes like a turd, looks like a turd, THAN ITS A TURD!


"I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains!"

 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14 AT 04:16PM (MST)[p]I wonder what day his tag was notched out at?

The last day of the hunt was Sunday the 27th. The picture that still has the cape on the deer is Nov 1st, that is 5 days after the hunt. The end of Oct wasn't that cold. Did he put it in his freezer, hide it? He didn't take care of it in a reasonably normal fashion, because the cape is still on it. The cape in the first picture looks pretty pink and recent, unless he froze it. Why wouldn't you cape it out earlier?

No kill pictures seen by anyone that I know.

More evidence is mounting.
 
Before anybody convicts this person in the photo....are you 100% positive that he was the one who shot it?

Eel
 
Lots and lots of assumptions. If this guy is guilty I hope he gets nailed....and nailed hard. If he is proven innocent I equally hope he hammers the hell out of individuals that accused!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14
>AT 04:16?PM (MST)
>
>I wonder what day his tag
>was notched out at?
>
>The last day of the hunt
>was Sunday the 27th.
>The picture that still has
>the cape on the deer
>is Nov 1st, that is
>5 days after the hunt.
> The end of Oct
>wasn't that cold. Did
>he put it in his
>freezer, hide it?
>He didn't take care of
>it in a reasonably normal
>fashion, because the cape is
>still on it. The
>cape in the first picture
>looks pretty pink and recent,
>unless he froze it.
>Why wouldn't you cape it
>out earlier?
>
>No kill pictures seen by anyone
>that I know.
>
>More evidence is mounting.

***I don't even see a tag on the rack. Doesn't Utah require that the animal be legally tagged at the kill site and the tag to remain on until it goes to a taxidermist that would take the information off the tag and put his own tag on it until it was completed? If the DWR does the job right, I would think they would ask the guy to take them to the kill site as one of the first parts of the investigation. There may be some remnants that would verify an animal was taken, but it wouldn't verify what animal was there unless they could match DNA evidence with the animal he has. I think it would only take one credible witness to testify that the animal was seen after the season closed like the case in Wyoming I mentioned in the other thread that nailed the kid. Obviously a picture of the live animal taken after the season closed that could be verified with data taken from it by an expert would really nail it down. If he's guilty, they'll nail the guy in time if they are worth their salt!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14 AT 04:54PM (MST)[p]Top,
No the license doesn't need to stay with the head. It stays with the carcass or meat so to speak. That's the law in Utah. Ever see a tag attached to a leg? Is there a state that requires the tag to be attached to the horns or antlers? Where do you attach the tag on a Bighorn Sheep in Utah? Lets let the DWR and Local law enforcement to their jobs and see how it plays out. Then we can see where the idiot and turd titles should fall.
 
I don't know where the head is now but I'll be glad to " hold" it until things quiet down! Haha
Zeke
 
Very interesting. That guy looks like this taxidermist I used several years ago. Damn can't remember hs name...
 
Witnesses can say what they want, but it won't hold up without more proof. This picture was taken Nov 1st, at 3:09 pm. Thats 5 days after the season ended. So no one saying they saw the deer after Nov 1st is credible. Now what is needed is a live photo taken after 5:30 on Oct 27th. So far, I haven't seen one.

Yelum






+100000000000000000!
 
Could the buck have traveled onto a CWMU. Is there a CWMU close by? If so the buck could have been taken legally after October 27th. I am not familiar with the buck,or the location where it was frequently photographed.
I am in no way defending anyone, but before you stone the man to death you should learn the facts. If the buck was poached I hope he is punished.
 
No CWMU's close. The only guy that could have killed was the gov tag, and Doyle wasn't about to touch this.

If the evidence is there, they'll nail him. If not, most, including me, will still believe he shot him in the city limits, but got away with it. I'm not a judge, in court, so He'll have to prove to me he was on the mountain. Not that he needs to.

Yelum

Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
 
>No CWMU's close. The only
>guy that could have killed
>was the gov tag, and
>Doyle wasn't about to touch
>this.
>
>If the evidence is there, they'll
>nail him. If not,
>most, including me, will still
>believe he shot him in
>the city limits, but got
>away with it. I'm
>not a judge, in court,
>so He'll have to prove
>to me he was on
>the mountain. Not that
>he needs to.
>
>Yelum
>
>Theres logic, and theres women. They
>don't go together.


Thanks Larry I should have just called you. I was only asking , I hope I didn't sound like a jerk.
 
Ok boys, here is a picture I personally took on Sunday afternoon of October 27th.
You can have someone photo check or whatever the crap you do to verify dates.
It is NOT my buck.

7819image.jpg
 
Cheap SOB is drinking Keystone!

JUDAS!







[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-14 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]>Ok boys, here is a picture
>I personally took on Sunday
>afternoon of October 27th.
>You can have someone photo check
>or whatever the crap you
>do to verify dates.
>It is NOT my buck.
>
>
7819image.jpg



***So even if the picture was taken Sunday afternoon it does not prove that the deer was taken legally. Were you with the hunter when the buck was killed to verify that it was in a legal area and testiify to that in a court of law under oath. Are you aware that by making your post on this Forum that your IP can be traced right to the computer where it was typed in case your name isn't realy Coby Butler. Does anyone know this guy? I see what looks like a kill tag on the rack in this picture that's not on the one with the guy holding the head/cape up.
 
I know coby.....he's honorable.


Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
ROTFLMMFAO! So now we have a witness stating the buck was killed before the season closed? This is getting really good! It kind of puts a damper on the claim that ALL you need is a few witness saying they saw the buck alive after the season closed doesn't it?

I still think this buck was taken illegally but it's going to be a little harder to prove than our resident "experts" claimed before it would be.

You gotta love it!
 
I hear they are putting on a mule deer identification 101 class at USU for all who claim they saw this buck in November. Looking over all these current and past posts I would think there would be standing room only.
 
>Ok boys, here is a picture
>I personally took on Sunday
>afternoon of October 27th.
>You can have someone photo check
>or whatever the crap you
>do to verify dates.
>It is NOT my buck.
>
>
7819image.jpg



Is that the kill site?
 
Sierra. That was funny!

This may turn out to be very interesting.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
I swear to god 10%(90% of the posts )of the guys on here sit in the hair saloon and b##t each other off.you know who you are. What a god d##n joke. Where the hell are these pics after the hunt??????? You would think a 240+ inch buck would be pretty unmistakable in N. UT. But, yet people are so consumed by the head gear on this deer, they would make a 2 point the Hyde park buck!!! This deer is not sh#t in the big picture. Start squabbling over the overall deer herd. Then maybe we can get some where. But, you guys won't cause your in it for the drama and your own selfish reasons . get some legit proof of this buck being killed illegally, until then shut your god Da## mouths. It's always something. A proof date killed. Still assumptions. Never ending bull Sh#t with this hunting gig. Hey, TOP this is Coby Butler and I did take a pic. Of this buck dead oct. 27th . Taped him out to. And to my knowledge this deer was taken legally. You want to start throwing my full name out on a open forum come talk to me! 6040 w 18400n garland ut.

Have fun with your drama bull SH##
 
I'm a Thinkin:

With the Un-Employment Beer!:D

He Probably needed the Meat!

And sent the Buck in to Hydeing!:D

Kiddin!

I don't know a thing about this Buck other than another Town/City Buck is Dead!

These MM Trials Crack me up!

Can't wait to eventually Pull an LE Tag!

Further more I can't wait for my MM Trial!:D:D:D











[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 06:54AM (MST)[p]> I swear to god 10%(90%
>of the posts )of the
>guys on here sit in
>the hair saloon and b##t
>each other off.you know who
>you are. What a god
>d##n joke. Where the
>hell are these pics after
>the hunt??????? You would think
>a 240+ inch buck would
>be pretty unmistakable in N.
>UT. But, yet people are
>so consumed by the head
>gear on this deer, they
>would make a 2 point
>the Hyde park buck!!!
>This deer is not sh#t
>in the big picture. Start
>squabbling over the overall deer
>herd. Then maybe we can
>get some where. But, you
>guys won't cause your in
>it for the drama and
>your own selfish reasons .
>get some legit proof of
>this buck being killed illegally,
>until then shut your god
>Da## mouths. It's always
>something. A proof date killed.
>Still assumptions. Never ending bull
>Sh#t with this hunting gig.
>Hey, TOP this is Coby
>Butler and I did take
>a pic. Of this buck
>dead oct. 27th . Taped
>him out to. And to
>my knowledge this deer was
>taken legally. You want to
>start throwing my full name
>out on a open forum
>come talk to me! 6040
>w 18400n garland ut.
>
>Have fun with your drama bull
>SH##


***FYI YOU put your full name out on this website in your profile that anyone can click on to see your actual name, so we can continue discussing things out on this thread or by PM if you care to! Incidently, your picture, IF data proves it was taken before the season closed, would only prove the animal was taken during an open season. Your "to my knowledge" doesn't mean diddly any more than those who are saying it was killed within the city limits if you were not there physically to witness where it was shot! Everything will come out and if it was a legal kill that's great, although it's a shame anyone would shoot a tame animal that many in the community were taking a lot of enjoyment watching, but if it wasn't and there is enough evidence presented to say otherwise, I hope the situation is taken care of properly in a court of law and to it's fullest extent.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 08:20AM (MST)[p]After doing a full investigation via internet;
I have come to the conclusion that there was little to no trama indicative of 243 cal or larger to the upper body after reviewing the pics. It was either roped, coraled, or shot in the hinds. I went to the gut pile on 400east 450 south and found little residual left. Dear was loaded up whole(*hind legs hanging in second pic)
It appears that the deer was moved from kill location without being tagged till a later time. If the tag was put on the deer at the kill site there would surely be blood and wrinkles from dragging a beast like this over to the road. Note* fresh tag in shop along with new box of zip ties in background. Zip tie barcode indicates purchase was after season date. Hmm

Blood on floor is fresh and cape is damp and in no way is indicative of a 4to5 wait/skin time.


Apparently routinely visits lowes ( new rigid combo pack)
Also likes to elk ,antelope, sheep hunt, he is a party hunter from the looks of the pic in the shop, so it's likely other were assisting. I will ask for permission to go through shop trash/ receipts and will include final investigation by the end of the week.
 
Top,
He doesn't have to prove he shot it legally. They have the burden of proving he did something illegal. It's how our justice system thankful works, or should work. As far as shooting a pet. If he shot the deer legally he owes no one an apology!!!! Congrats to him on filling his tag with a beautiful deer during deer season!
 
>After doing a full investigation via
>internet;
>I have come to the conclusion
>that there was little to
>no trama indicative of
>243 cal or larger to
>the upper body after reviewing
>the pics. It was either
>roped, coraled, or shot in
>the hinds. I went to
>the gut pile on 400east
>450 south and found little
>residual left.
>It appears that the deer was
>moved from kill location without
>being tagged till a later
>time. If the tag was
>put on the deer at
>the kill site there would
>surely be blood and wrinkles
>from dragging a beast like
>this over to the road.
>Note* fresh tag in shop
>along with new box of
>zip ties in background. Hmm
>
>
>Blood on floor is fresh and
>cape is damp and in
>no way is indicative of
>a 4to5 wait/skin time.
>
>
>Apparently routinely visits lowes ( new
>rigid combo pack)
>Also likes to elk ,antelope, sheep
>hunt, he is a party
>hunter from the looks of
>the pic in the shop,
>so it's likely other were
>assisting.


You forgot to mention he's a Phil Robertson fan...probably hates gays...hang em high!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]>Top,
>He doesn't have to prove he
>shot it legally. They
>have the burden of proving
>he did something illegal. It's
>how our justice system thankful
>works, or should work.
>As far as shooting a
>pet. If he shot
>the deer legally he owes
>no one an apology!!!! Congrats
>to him on filling his
>tag with a beautiful deer
>during deer season!


***Not to the general public he doesn't. He will basicly end up doing just that though if an investigation comes up with enough evidence to support poaching or other illegal acts and charges are sought and filed with the Prosecutor for that area! No doubt it will be up to the prosecution to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed, whether it be out of season, within the city limits, etc. It would seem, as others have suggested, that if this animal was taken legally outside the city limits in a legal area during an open season that the guy would have done exactly what the guy did that killed the cemetary buck. That would be to come right out in the open immediately and take all suspicions and doubt of any illegalities out of the equation. It would appear that an investigation hasn't cleared him right away, so I would surmise that very possibly evidence may be building to suggest something illegal happened and charges may be filed. However, I'm not going to rush to any accusatons and condemn him because I'm just like everyone else and don't know any of the pertinent facts being looked at by the Investigators. I will say that I'm sort of disappointed that anyone would shoot a fairly tame animal that's well known to many citizens and that was giving them a lot of pleasure even if it was done legally. Nope, he doesn't owe anybody anything if things were done legally on the up and up, but unlike you I'm not going to congratulate him on it either!
 
So he shot it Sat or Sunday? I heard there is a little confusion on the date and time he killed it. He didn't cape it out for 5 days later Nov 1st?? Must have been pretty busy those 4-5 days. There are still questions and an investigation. Any kill shot pictures would be nice to see. If it was killed above the power lines good for the hunter. I would rather a hunter shoot the buck if it was done lawfully, than it died from a car. I know there were people hunting the face on Suday,the last day of the hunt.
 
Top,
There is no set of rules on how to handle shooting a big deer! As long as it's done legally! If he didn't nail him. If he did I hope he makes the accusers miserable for calling his character into question. In fact if he is proven to have taken the deer legally does he have the right to pursue his own legal action against those that lied and posted false accusations? Just a question but a valid one.
 
For what its worth, I noticed Muley Freak deleted the post I originally saw in which they claim the guy in the pic poached the deer. They must not have had enough proof to feel comfortable keeping the post up claiming it was poached.

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
This could be taken care of easy;
Take dwr to kill site. Get samples to get a pos id. That would or wouldn't erase doubt about locality issues.

Show more pics. If any?most always take more. ( everyone's got a phone) you know they had reception.

Then take pic with dwr shaking hands! done!
 
To appease who? The accusers on public forums? If there is a case I'm sure the authorities are covering all the bases. Topgun is giving them top level guidance I'm sure.
 
Bet money the guy that killed this buck is watching all this. Just me, but if I was the one in question and didn't do anything wrong, I'd be all over the guys saying otherwise. With Proof. mtmuley
 
Amazing!

Guilty until proven innocent.

Glad the whole country doesn't work like MM.

It's a fun place to visit but I wouldn't wanna live there.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
Why the ##### would he feel the need to straighten everything out on the buck with the plicks on this forum when people condemn everyone as liars over a score?

Sounds like lose lose to me.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]>To appease who? The accusers
>on public forums?
>If there is a case
>I'm sure the authorities are
>covering all the bases.
>Topgun is giving them top
>level guidance I'm sure.


***This is exactly the type of post that gets things going in the wrong direction for no reason. I've tried to be as polite and civil discussing the situation with some insight as to what may be happening based on previous experience in my career. There was absolutely no reason for the wisecrack comment you made, but I'll leave it at that because I made a New Years resolution not to get into stupid arguments and name calling like has happened in the past. I would appreciate it if you would respect that and let's just be gentlemen on here. The authorities must have had at least one tip that something was amiss when the deer came up missing and subsequently was found killed by a hunter. One of the first things that they would probably do would be to ask where the kill site was and to be taken to it to see if there is any positive or negative evidence there so as not to have to proceed any further. The kill site and date when killed would be the two obvious things that need to be rectified to prove or disprove if a crime of any sort was committed, It's really that simple and IMHO the longer it takes for the authorities to say there is not sufficient evidence or to file criminal charges the more suppositions that will be made. Let's just let things progress until the authorities come out to the public one way or the other. One final thing and that was your question about libel and sander. In most instances slander is when someone intentionally lied or defames a person full well knowing that what they were doing was not fact and was a lie. Nobody even knows the name of the person to do that, so that in and of itslef might rulle slander out. I have seen one post so far that IMHO went way too far and made a guilt accusation just based on that picture or suposition right out in print and we don't even know who was in the picture or if it was the person who killed the animal.
 
The deer was taken within the hunting season. Chances are he went out of the city, or maybe not some legal to hunt private and he got poped. Remember he could have been taken by a bow, on some legal to hunt private lands and in most cities this is legal if it is agriculture land. For instance you can hunt game birds in a lot of cites on these lands with a bow or shot gun. Who is to say this buck was not on the land and got hit with some buck shot? Just saying that their are many option as to how this buck could have came to its end, but in reality this hunter took it legal I could almost guarantee it, given the fact that it was taken within the season. I know I will get back lash but in reality we can argue that this buck was not tagged until it was removed or anything else petty. However I personally have cut and notched the tag and waited till the animal was at the vehicle to attached the tag. I have been stopped by a game warden and never even so much as a warning. Granted it was the first day of the hunt and I had just dropped a 140 inch buck, but it was a long as heck drag and I have lost a cut tag off a big game animal during a drag and had the agony of tracking it down. I was lucky to find it both times but since then what I have done is cut the tag, dipped it in the blood of the animal and put it in my pocket until the game animal is in my truck. I figure that way they can tell I am not trying to bait and switch due to DNA, and I don't chance loosing the tag.
 
"I would appreciate it if you would respect that and let's just be gentlemen on here."

Don't hold your breath, this is the internet after all......

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
To appease who? The accusers on public forums?

These accusers? Are neighbors/ Locals, I know I wouldn't want to carry this label and association with this buck even if it was deemed legal. There are to many up here, across the street , down the road that will always think it was poached. I wouldn't want any part. Take care, your fellow hydeparkian.
 
Why is it a problem to ask for legal proof of the killing? All the stupid crap posted so far could have been ended. Suddenly friends of the shooter surface, but not the shooter to defend himself. Internet or not, I would put it to rest if it were me. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]In post #64 our member is now saying the buck was taken during the season. How do you know that? The picture put up by member Butler with his statement as to when it was taken would not be sufficient for you to say that and it would also need more followup by authorities if they are shown the picture. My suggestion would be that if he already hasn't taken that photo to authorities so they could check it out as to when it was taken then he should do so. That could quickly eliminate the "poaching after the season closed" aspect of the situation we're discussing. It would seem like if he's a friend of the hunter who killed the deer that he would do that to help his friend out of what may be a bad situation, rather than posting it on here. Maybe he's already done so, but if he did why not say that out in his post?
 
Topgun check the. Post up towards the top by deerslayer88 he said he knows how to check the date the photo was taken by a phone.

Not saying its fact or that is how he knows.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
>Why is it a problem to
>ask for legal proof of
>the killing? All the stupid
>crap posted so far could
>have been ended. Suddenly friends
>of the shooter surface, but
>not the shooter to defend
>himself. Internet or not, I
>would put it to rest
>if it were me. mtmuley
>


***He could have put it to rest BEFORE anything even got started on the internet or around town by doing what the guy that killed the cemetary buck did and leaving nothing to doubt. That is why everybody in that area and most on the internet thinks he guilty of something when it involves such a noteworthy animal, as it's just human nature to do that when things don;t appear to have been done above board!
 
Mtmuley how does one PROVE beyond doubt that the animal was legally killed on an Internet forum? Short of video or a warden certifying he's been cleared, I don't know of any PROOF that would please this lynchmob.

II will say I don't know anything about this buck or how it was killed just saying nobody here does either and anything the shooter says won't probably change the minds of the people condemning him.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]Why the ##### would he feel the need to straighten everything out on the buck with the plicks on this forum when people condemn everyone as liars over a score?

Because this dude will end up getting so much shat for as long as he lives up this way! That's why I'd try to clear it up with law/Facebook/websites/you name it.
I don't care who it went to,
Either way it will end up on here sooner or later, next I'll be front page on ksl and hjnews
 
So tell me how he clears it up?

How does he win?

What constitutes proof to YOU? Or what constitutes proof tho Mtmuley?

Can't please all of us, may not please any of us.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 12:18PM (MST)[p]You miss my point. I really don't care either way. It was a great buck. Not my pet.

I don't need any proof. I am just saying, try getting his name "cleared" would be on my addenda. There are many ways have him talk to dwr.


Unfortunately , no matter what happens " guilty or not" It'll go down like OJ. In a lot of eyes at this point. A lot of this is not ever going to be a win win.
 
Hey, I'm just wondering if it was legal or not. But that would ruin all stupid stuff going here on with the killing of a big deer. Usual stuff I guess. I should have known better than to opoen this thread. mtmuley
 
Where's Trophymuley? He claimed to have seen the buck after the season closed. Haven't heard from him since Butts posted a photo of the buck and stated that it was killed before the season ended.
 
What a zoo


Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
Milligan and Mtmuley

I understand what you are asking and why, I just don't think he would be capable of clearing it up with even most of the doubters.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
I have noticed most times a thread like this surfaces, the accused party NEVER steps up to clear their name. The longer time goes on, the harder it is to prove wrongdoing. If that guy poached that buck and can live with the decision, that's his problem. And to me it's a serious problem. The guy has zero character if he did it. Shooting a tame deer is one thing, poaching it another. A problem either way. mtmuley
 
>Topgun check the. Post up towards
>the top by deerslayer88 he
>said he knows how to
>check the date the photo
>was taken by a phone.
>
>
>Not saying its fact or that
>is how he knows.
>
>Bill
>
>People who work for a living
>are quickly being
>overwhelmed by people who vote for
>a living.


***Thanks! I just matched up his before and after posts to see why the latter post said what it did about the date. However, we are on the internet and his word is good as far as the date it was shot IF he's correct, is considered an expert in the field with qualifications that would be necessary in a courtroom, and IF he was consulted by authorities and verified it's the actual date it was taken as stated by the photographer. We are not the Judge or Jury here and thank God we're not, especially if I was the hunter in question!!!
 
Mtmuley

I agree withe everything you said in your last post.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
>I have noticed most times a
>thread like this surfaces, the
>accused party NEVER steps up
>to clear their name. The
>longer time goes on, the
>harder it is to prove
>wrongdoing. If that guy poached
>that buck and can live
>with the decision, that's his
>problem. And to me it's
>a serious problem. The guy
>has zero character if he
>did it. Shooting a tame
>deer is one thing, poaching
>it another. A problem either
>way. mtmuley


***Agree 100% with that assessment and with that I hope to not have to make any more posts on this thread unless/until the authorities have closed the case one way or another.
 
LMAO!

Topgun said,

"The kill site and date when killed would be the two obvious things that need to be rectified to prove or disprove if a crime of any sort was committed, It's really that simple and IMHO the longer it takes for the authorities to say there is not sufficient evidence or to file criminal charges the more suppositions that will be made."




So... I thought the obvious thing to prove the crime was witnesses stating they saw the deer after the season closed? Now you're saying the kill site and date of kill are the two "obvious things" that need to be rectified? Contradict yourself much?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 05:10PM (MST)[p]>LMAO!
>
>Topgun said,
>
>"The kill site and date when
>killed would be the two
>obvious things that need to
>be rectified to prove or
>disprove if a crime of
>any sort was committed, It's
>really that simple and IMHO
>the longer it takes for
>the authorities to say there
>is not sufficient evidence or
>to file criminal charges the
>more suppositions that will be
>made."
>
>
>
>
>So... I thought the obvious thing
>to prove the crime was
>witnesses stating they saw the
>deer after the season closed?
> Now you're saying the
>kill site and date of
>kill are the two "obvious
>things" that need to be
>rectified? Contradict yourself much?
>


***Please don't start on this again with me because nothing I said conradicts what was previously stated. You are putting words in my mouth that were not said just like you did regarding what Vanilla stated just to suit your agenda and start another argument. If no pictures can be authenticated to show the animal was killed before the season closed, and the one shown has not been by an expert witness, one or more witness statements could possibly be entered by the prosecution to claim an after season killing. The actual site needs to be determined to decide whether he should be charged with a second offense of dischaging a firearm within the city limits if that's where the killing took place. Since there may be no witnesses to the actual killing, it may be hard to charge him with that offense. Let's just let justice take it's course and not get into another pissing match because it's obvious that nothing I can say will satisfy you.
 
I have not taken the time to look up Utah regulations but all the states I know the regs in you as a hunter are required to show the kill site to authorities if asked. So I am guessing Utah DWR has already done this and if suspicious have collected DNA evidence to be tested. Results of tests or lack of kill site will continue to be investigated. If this buck was killed legally very easy to prove. I wouldn't expect results for awhile in either case unless they have witnesses or statements.

I don't know the habits of this deer or how far he had to go to leave city limits but time will tell. He is innocent until proven guilty as stated.

Rich
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-14 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]>I have not taken the time
>to look up Utah regulations
>but all the states I
>know the regs in you
>as a hunter are required
>to show the kill site
>to authorities if asked. So
>I am guessing Utah DWR
>has already done this and
>if suspicious have collected DNA
>evidence to be tested.
>Results of tests or lack
>of kill site will continue
>to be investigated. If this
>buck was killed legally very
>easy to prove. I wouldn't
>expect results for awhile in
>either case unless they have
>witnesses or statements.
>
>I don't know the habits of
>this deer or how far
>he had to go to
>leave city limits but time
>will tell. He is innocent
>until proven guilty as stated.
>
>
>Rich


***Good post Rich! That was one of the things that nailed the kid up in Wyoming for doing pretty much the same thing that people think this guy may have done. When authorities were tipped off that the deer the kid said he had killed legally in another unit from where the deer was known to live and was seen alive after that 10 day season had closed there in that unit the kid was asked to take the Warden to the legal kill site. He couldn't do it because it wasn't killed where he said it was and what his tag was good for. That and the witness statements ended up with a conviction on that case.
 
Topgun said,

"***Please don't start on this again with me because nothing I said conradicts what was previously stated. You are putting words in my mouth that were not said just like you did regarding what Vanilla stated just to suit your agenda and start another argument. If no pictures can be authenticated to show the animal was killed before the season closed, and the one shown has not been by an expert witness, one or more witness statements could possibly be entered by the prosecution to claim an after season killing. The actual site needs to be determined to decide whether he should be charged with a second offense of dischaging a firearm within the city limits if that's where the killing took place. Since there may be no witnesses to the actual killing, it may be hard to charge him with that offense. Let's just let justice take it's course and not get into another pissing match because it's obvious that nothing I can say will satisfy you."





Oh you could say something alright, but you're not man enough to do it. You are absolutely contradicting yourself because in the other thread you said ALL that was needed was witness testimony that they saw this buck after the season ended to convict the accused. Now you're saying we need to have the kill site and proof of date of kill. That is contradictory to what you stated before, like it or not.

I'll leave it at that. I'm comfortable sitting back watching you look like an idiot!
 
Hey all, just a for your information post. I am not a expert (not a cop or lawyer) however I do know what I am doing as I tend to look at metadata weekly for my second job. It is very simple to find the dates and such off photos if your a mac user iPhoto automatically posts part of the meta data when you down load the photo, PC you just right click and get info, on line you can right click and select get info or inspect element. Just a reminder Safari the Apple based web browser makes it impossible to inspect the Meta data (use chrome with macs) which is the data about data (location, time, date, and well any other information needed stamp).
-
I received 3 photos of this buck, one of it cleaned but no one holding it (dated 10-27-13 at 5pm), and the other two were the same versions of the first photo of the guy holding the buck.
-
Just so you guys do know you can erase meta data, I have a program for that, also Facebook and other social networking sites will wipe meta data before the photo is fully uploaded on their site. You can also change the meta data if you know what you are doing, it is not a easy process but it can be done. I would say if you took 100 people maybe one would know about how to change the date on a photo, video, or music file. So not a huge portion of the population. Oh one more thing about this meta data on Facebook, when Facebook wipes the metadata it also creates new meta data so for instance the photo could have been uploaded onto Facebook on the first of nov and that is why the date reflects that. I would not know without getting the original photo from the camera or phone but just something to think about.
-
My goal here was to find out if there was a field photo showing the deer and to see the date, if there was a crime of course report it. I did this same thing to the dumb a's who shot the doe and posted it on youtube. Now back to this issue when I seen a photo of the date showing it was within season by 30 minutes it was like okay almost certain now that the deer was at least taken within the season dates. It would be very difficult to prove the deer was taken out side of the city or on legal ground without field photos, showing meta data. It would also be nice to have the original (phone, or camera) photo of the buck dead.
 
>Topgun said,
>
>"***Please don't start on this again
>with me because nothing I
>said conradicts what was previously
>stated. You are putting words
>in my mouth that were
>not said just like you
>did regarding what Vanilla stated
>just to suit your agenda
>and start another argument. If
>no pictures can be authenticated
>to show the animal was
>killed before the season closed,
>and the one shown has
>not been by an expert
>witness, one or more witness
>statements could possibly be entered
>by the prosecution to claim
>an after season killing. The
>actual site needs to be
>determined to decide whether he
>should be charged with a
>second offense of dischaging a
>firearm within the city limits
>if that's where the killing
>took place. Since there may
>be no witnesses to the
>actual killing, it may be
>hard to charge him with
>that offense. Let's just let
>justice take it's course and
>not get into another pissing
>match because it's obvious that
>nothing I can say will
>satisfy you."
>
>
>
>
>
>Oh you could say something alright,
>but you're not man enough
>to do it. You
>are absolutely contradicting yourself because
>in the other thread you
>said ALL that was needed
>was witness testimony that they
>saw this buck after the
>season ended to convict the
>accused. Now you're saying
>we need to have the
>kill site and proof of
>date of kill. That
>is contradictory to what you
>stated before, like it or
>not.
>
>I'll leave it at that.
>I'm comfortable sitting back watching
>you look like an idiot!
>


***Good you're leaving it at that since all the others are pretty much on the same page with me and we'll let them decide who the idiot is!
 
The person accused of so called poaching on this forum.(general consensus )called DWR shortly after the kill date . Gave a statement. Asked for Logan area fish cop info.granted. Called this officer several times. No answer. You would think that officer would call back. Right? No DWR personal have contacted this person. He welcomes them to. Dropped a pin on his phone of the kill site. Most of you want this to be illegitimate so bad . Why?
 
>Hey all, just a for your
>information post. I am not
>a expert (not a cop
>or lawyer) however I do
>know what I am doing
>as I tend to look
>at metadata weekly for my
>second job. It is very
>simple to find the dates
>and such off photos if
>your a mac user iPhoto
>automatically posts part of the
>meta data when you down
>load the photo, PC you
>just right click and get
>info, on line you can
>right click and select get
>info or inspect element. Just
>a reminder Safari the Apple
>based web browser makes it
>impossible to inspect the Meta
>data (use chrome with macs)
>which is the data about
>data (location, time, date, and
>well any other information needed
>stamp).
>-
>I received 3 photos of this
>buck, one of it cleaned
>but no one holding it
>(dated 10-27-13 at 5pm), and
>the other two were the
>same versions of the first
>photo of the guy holding
>the buck.
>-
>Just so you guys do know
>you can erase meta data,
>I have a program for
>that, also Facebook and other
>social networking sites will wipe
>meta data before the photo
>is fully uploaded on their
>site. You can also change
>the meta data if you
>know what you are doing,
>it is not a easy
>process but it can be
>done. I would say if
>you took 100 people maybe
>one would know about how
>to change the date on
>a photo, video, or music
>file. So not a huge
>portion of the population. Oh
>one more thing about this
>meta data on Facebook, when
>Facebook wipes the metadata it
>also creates new meta data
>so for instance the photo
>could have been uploaded onto
>Facebook on the first of
>nov and that is why
>the date reflects that. I
>would not know without getting
>the original photo from the
>camera or phone but just
>something to think about.
>-
>My goal here was to find
>out if there was a
>field photo showing the deer
>and to see the date,
>if there was a crime
>of course report it. I
>did this same thing to
>the dumb a's who shot
>the doe and posted it
>on youtube. Now back to
>this issue when I seen
>a photo of the date
>showing it was within season
>by 30 minutes it was
>like okay almost certain now
>that the deer was at
>least taken within the season
>dates. It would be very
>difficult to prove the deer
>was taken out side of
>the city or on legal
>ground without field photos, showing
>meta data. It would also
>be nice to have the
>original (phone, or camera) photo
>of the buck dead.


***Thanks again and I'm sure everyone appreciates your time spent and knowledge of photo data! I hope the authorities are doing all you mentioned to clear things up and result in the correct ending to this situation. As I stated in that PM to you after I got yours, I was not implying that you don't know what you're doing, but that it will take a person certified by the court as an expert on data retrieval if it comes to that to make a case one way one way or the other.
 
WHY???? jealousy, envy, etc...sounds like a lot of people are eating there words on seeing the buck after the season closed. I am assuming there is not 2 bucks that have the same horn structure or even close to it. why would someone come on here and say they saw the buck after the 1st of Nov???... are they trying to be the cool kid on the block, one of the go to guys when it comes to knowing where all the tame deer hangout???
basically bandwagon jumpers HATING on a guy who got it done on a world class deer.




How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
Topgun I never for a second was thinking you were doubting my knowledge or anything like that. I just wanted to let you know what I was doing so you had a idea of why I was saying what I have said. I by no means would certify this thing by my word was a legal kill as I have no clue of the kill site and I have not went into enough detail to say yet this is an original photo with non tampered meta data. I will say it made me feel a little better knowing the one date made it in season, but the law enforcement officers and lawyers if needed need to battle this one out in court if it comes to that. I would hope we have an knowledgeable law enforcement officer on this case, but who knows if they know a thing about meta data. They could in theory go off someones statement to say this buck was alive and well on the 31st of October so lets charge.
 
I hope every thing is legal and don't want it to be illegal. If it was taken illegally it makes hunters look bad. I personally have no interest in hunting a deer that lives in town hoping he steps out but that is just me. I think some folks assume the worst, who knows. But if no one cared all the big town bucks would just disappear.

Rich
 
>I hope every thing is legal
>and don't want it to
>be illegal. If it was
>taken illegally it makes hunters
>look bad. I personally have
>no interest in hunting a
>deer that lives in town
>hoping he steps out but
>that is just me. I
>think some folks assume the
>worst, who knows. But if
>no one cared all the
>big town bucks would just
>disappear.
>
>Rich


What do you mean 'would'?

It's 'Have'!









[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
Oh Butts, that cannot be. He's already been convicted.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 

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