Ibex quota

A

azdogman

Guest
The quota was met and actualy surpassed on the first day. They decided to let the hunt keep going because people complained. If you killed 2 on the first day you had great odds at the Billy tag. Now those odds are cut in half because they didn't stick to the quota. Anyone who killed 2 the first day needs to email Rhonda and let her know your not happy. [email protected]
 
This whole hunt was a cluster Fu$&. Now this??? Also if you called the hotline around 9:15 last night it said the quota was met and hunt was closed. Then later it changed and said it was open for one more day. Not fair to the guys who busted their a$$ and killed 2 knowing it would close in one day.
 
I just emailed her expressing my distain for their conduct with this hunt.
Whilst she promptly replied, it was a generic response.

"Thank you for your input & concern. Your email has been forwarded. Have a nice weekend. "



------------------
DRSS
 
Cant imagine they would change the rules like that. Sounds like someone over there needs to take charge.
 
>NMDGF has been producing warm and
>steamy ideas quite prolifically for
>the past few years.

Flush the ideas and the Dept... :O
 
Let me see if I can find anything out... BUT give me some time... This is a tricky one..
 
They basically said. Hey. Buy a raffle ticket to win this car. Were only selling 100. Then at the end saying well were gonna sell 200 now instead.
 
Have you guys ever read the rule book? It clearly states that all season dates and bag limits can be changed at the departments discretion. If you bought a tag, you agreed to these terms. Now people want to sue the G&F Dept. for doing something that you agreed they could do?

Have they ever done anything right? Of course they have. If you have ever held a hunting tag you owe that to the management of the G&F. They are not perfect and have made plenty of mistakes, just like me and you.

Cory
 
I agree the lawyer thing is pretty sorry.

Have not heard both sides of it, but, to me it seems the easiest thing would be to stick by the original posted rules.


Cory, your right. NMG&F does some really good things. They have the best youth hunts in the country with no other state even close.

Deer herd.... well that is another discussion.
 
I wrote to her we will see what she says. I am more conceerned about the safety and the numbers of the animals killed. It was very unsafe i was shot towards over ten times and i had hunter orange hat, shirt, and pants. I had to climb down off the top to get away from stray bullets being shot at me. Also the amount of animals killed will never be known, there was way to many animals shot that people never even went after or wounded. I bet over 400 were shot or wounded easy. Plus when i checked mine in they only counted the nanny they said immature males were not being counted. They counted toward the billy draw but not counted as numbers killed. This was from the biologist that checked in my 2 goats. It was a very strange deal and i hope it gets fixed. I know it will not be easy for them but they should have done something when the number of tags sold started to get out of control. They new reaching the quota would not be a problem and that safety was becoming a concern. Good luck
 
Coryb. So your telling me if you applied for a bull elk tag that had a 2 week long hunt and half way through it they closed the hunt, you wouldn't be pissed?
 
>Coryb. So your telling
>me if you applied for
>a bull elk tag that
>had a 2 week long
>hunt and half way through
>it they closed the hunt,
>you wouldn't be pissed?

I bet he wouldn't be pissed if they gave him one more day to hunt......
 
Your right he wouldn't be. The point was he would be upset if they changed the rules mid stride that had a negative impact on him.
 
Gringo is spot on. Take the Billy draw out of the equation. They had still gone over the target quota. Not even counting wounded and lost animals. If people were upset the hunt closed so quick oh well. This hunt was about taking out a certain number of animals. Not about hunter opportunity. Anyone who thought the hunt would last more than one day before it hit the quota was crazy. The management of this unique resource is lacking to say the least. Anyone who hasn't hunted these animals on the rock are really missing out. Awesome animal just to observe.
 
I'm guessing by your username that your a NM resident?? Your lucky we even let you hunt them at all........grow up and quit whining.
 
Of course I would be upset if any hunt I drew was closed early. However, I would never consider legal action over it. I understand that this is something that could happen and that I have agreed to each time I apply for or buy a license.

I also understand that many on this hunt did so only for a shot at the incentive tag. I don't blame them for that nor would I be thrilled in there position to know more hunters would be in the draw because of the hunt carrying on past the quota. However, the G&F dept. can choose to cancel the incentive hunt, like any other hunt, and anybody who to agreed to these terms by buying a license has no right to sue.

This hunt was mismanaged and dangerous, I agree with that. However, if you read the commission minutes the goal of these quota hunts (this years and the ones that may come in the years to come) was to reduce the current population of 900 animals to 400. Maybe G&F figured they could get the job done in one season by leaving it open another day and be done with it.

I have been on two archery ibex hunts in the last three years and know how great this hunt is. These animals are only here because of decisions that the G&F Dept. made and I am grateful they did. Like many, I hope the quality of these hunts will be similar in the next few years, but only time will tell.

Cory
 
>I'm guessing by your username that
>your a NM resident??
>Your lucky we even let
>you hunt them at all........grow
>up and quit whining.

Wow. 4 posts and your already running your mouth. Stay off my thread while the grown ups have a discussion.
 
I agree Cory. That may have been their reasoning. Makes sense from their perspective I guess. Just a little frustrating, that's all. How did you do on your bowhunts there?
 
>Wow. 4 posts and your already
>running your mouth. Stay off
>my thread while the grown
>ups have a discussion.

Your the one running your mouth on this topic, getting a lawyer and all........

Your right i only have four posts......i spend my time hunting animals, not typing about them, I only seem to post when some out of state yahoo is acting like they know it all. I killed my first two ibex on a similar hunt back in 1995 and been back every couple years on either muzzy or bow hunts with friends and harvested my two nannies on Friday so I'm in the incentive draw with you :)!

I think we may agree that OTC unlimited tags is a bad idea and there are better ways to manage the pop-reduction hunts but it pisses me off when people start acting like the NMGF are a bunch of idiots, we have more free range hunting opportunity here in NM than in any other western state and we open it up quite freely to non-residents, take what you get and be thankful for the opportunity.

Hopefully at some point in the future NM will get serious about pursing application of the quota for our exotics......bet you like that!!!
 
We have come very close on archery hunts, but never sent an arrow. I drew on a nice billy at 60 yards and wasn't able to let it fly. My brother-in-law passed on a billy at 67 yards last year as he had set himself a 60 yard max. I hope to draw again soon and when I do the first ibex in range, nanny or billy is going to get stuck.

Cory
 
I can't believe how badly the G&F underestimated the demand for this hunt. There was no need to offer an incentive.

Cory, you have more discipline than most hunters. I talked to 3 hunters who had shots while I was there in Jan., none of those shots were under 100 yards. They were comfortable taking those shots, so more power to them.

I practiced out to 85 yards, but decided I was only comfortable out to 65. In the end it was a moot point since I did not even get within 100 yards of a nanny. I still had a great time.
 
Nmall I'm not running my mouth. Also not the one getting a lawyer. Yes we do agree this was a bad idea. I'm not saying the Nm game and fish are idiots just made a bad call on this hunt and an unfair call keeping the hunt open longer. Of course you are not worried since you didn't kill 2 the first day. It is what it is at this point. Nm doesn't have any more hunts than az nor does it open it up any more freely to non res.

Oh yeah. I'm not just some non resident yahoo. I mean I did kill my 2 the first day and it took you 2 days lol. Sorry. Couldn't resist.
 
We have talked to quite a few archers who have taken and missed looooooong shots on ibex. In addition to my love of the thrill of the hunt, I hunt to take responsibility for the consequences of my existence. For me to eat meat, animals have to be killed. I take great pride in making it as ethical as possible and that means setting realistic ranges. With todays long range craze it seems less and less hunters feel the same, but that is their choice.

I practice a lot and am a pretty good bow shot. When I drew my Valle Vidal bow tag last season I set a goal to fire 5,000 practice shots before opening day. In the four month window I had I exceeded my goal by 10 shots and took notes every session recording my shot total and group sizes. I was shooting great groups but still set my limit at 60 yards. I feel flight time beyond this allows for too many variables to maintain the probability of the good shot that I want.

I feel the same with a rifle and like to limit my shots to 200 yards but have killed out to 290. Some day I hope to be proficient enough to stretch this range to 400 yards. These decisions have allowed me to retrieve every big game animal I have ever hit, so far. They have also meant that I come home with tag soup more often than not, but I'm OK with that.

Cory

PS: AZDogman, I am happy to welcome NR's like yourself to hunt in NM. There are quite a few other states that I would love to hunt and I don't understand why many NM Residents don't seem to feel the same way. Let me know if I can help with any info for your future NM adventures.
 
Thanks Cory. I feel the same way. I can give you a long list of people I have helped with info in az. Hell I have gone out with a few of them when they drew free of charge. If you want info on units you can draw as a non res without a ton of points and still kill good bulls hit me up next year. Most of our good deer areas do require a bunch of points. I'm not trying to start a fight just a little upset with the hand we were dealt and I believe rightfully so. If anyone needs info on any az hunts send me a message.

Take care.
 
I too welcome NRs to NM. However every western state favors their own residents when allocating tags.

This year NM finally got Desert Mountain Bighorns off the threatened list. As a result there were 11 more tags issued. It is my understanding that out of the 13 or 14 tags available only one went to a Resident. I don't think any other state would tolerate that kind of disparity.
 
>Nmall I'm not running
>my mouth. Also not the
>one getting a lawyer. Yes
>we do agree this was
>a bad idea. I'm not
>saying the Nm game and
>fish are idiots just made
>a bad call on this
>hunt and an unfair call
>keeping the hunt open longer.
> Of course you are
>not worried since you didn't
>kill 2 the first day.
>It is what it is
>at this point.
>Nm doesn't have any more
>hunts than az nor does
>it open it up any
>more freely to non res.
>
>
>Oh yeah. I'm not just some
>non resident yahoo. I mean
>I did kill my 2
>the first day and it
>took you 2 days lol.
> Sorry. Couldn't resist.
>

AZ has as much hunting opportunity, your kidding right...........I thought that AZ limited NR to 10% and let me know where to put in for ibex, oryx and Barbary sheep.....I guess AZ does have better bison hunting and more desert sheep tags than NM but we did give away all out desert tags to NR's last year except one.

Your right it took me two days, actually two hours and two shots as well to fill my tags as I spent the first day helping my buddy who has hunted them twice with a bow and never taken one fill his........we got his about 10:30 and processed them then headed down the mountain to check them in before continuing the hunt, it's not all about me.

Here's hoping we both draw an incentive tag, we both have equal chances :)
 
No non res quota on exotics (ibex, oryx, barbary sheep) or bighorns. I beleive 15 out of 16 desert sheep tags went to non-residents this last year.
 
Ibex numbers as of this afternoon
224 nannies killed
56 immature Billies killied

more to come since they have 5 days to report
im sure the numbers are a good number higher from those who have not reported and those that were not recovered
 
Wow. That's why it should have closed the first day. Add another 50 that were wounded or unrecoverable.
 
I am 100% behind the guys that did it right and killed out the first day and the quota was filled. At the point the quota was met they should have and should shut down all hunters going into the special draw. Total crap they kept the hunt open and let them kill 50 young billys...... I hope game and fish looks at this mess and drops the hunt in the future, or changes the plan for how it works. I also hope the hunters who checked in 2 before it closed are the only hunters in the draw!




www.200inches.com
 
Whoever is responsible for managing the Ibex should get fired just for the fact that this hunt was needed in the first place.

Oh, wait...government employee, sorry can't fire those.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-13 AT 11:48AM (MST)[p]WAAAAAAAAAAAA

We all knew this hunt would be a fiasco from the get go: WAY too many tags, harvest reporting not required for 5-days, nothing publicized regarding what a F/IM looked like or the fact that any animal recognizeable as a billy was very likely to be longer than 15-inches in the first place, etc.

I was blessed to kill 2. One first day, one second day. I'm probably one of the few who killed 2 ibex that were calm and unaware of my presence. Certainly others did this too, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of animals were killed by hail mary gunfire, at least based on what I observed in the area I was hunting.

So because I killed one on 2nd day, I'm not "worthy" to be in the incentive draw? Hmmm

And apparently the guys I saw lay into a herd of 3 running nannies the first day at 100+yards, killing all 3 with a total of about 15-shots, which resulted in one with a blown-off jaw, one with a blown off leg, and another gut shot...apparently are "worthy" to be in the incentive draw because they killed the first day?! Slobs is what I call them, but hey, there's no regulation against being stupid while hunting.

Or the guy I walked past who asked "you don't happen to have a tape measure do you?" apparently is "worthy" because he lucked out and the animal he killed was less than 15"? (for the record I didn't have a tape, but was very confident that his animal was less than 15" otherwise I would have taken down his information and reported it. Bottom line is that he shot first (another running instance) and asked questions later.

I refused to take shots at running animals, animals beyond my effective range, or in locations that might be impossible to retrieve; therefore passed up several "opportunities" both days. But hey, I only killed 1 first day, I'm not "worthy".

Bottom line is Game Commission made the goofy requirments in the first place, hunt was left open for a 2nd day for whatever reason, rules say anyone who kills 2 and has them checked by G&F within 5-days is elligible for incentive draw. So be it: meet those requirements and you're in the incentive draw.

Maybe anybody who shot more than twice to kill 2 ibex shouldn't be in the incentive draw? Or anyone who didn't bivy on the mountain shouldn't be in the draw (for the record, I did not). Or anybody who used a semi-auto? Or who didn't wear Hunter Orange? Or on and on.

Can't change the rules after the fact, they are what they are.

Whining and complaining on this website is just that. Write a letter to G&F & every single Game Commissioner explaining why this hunt was a fiasco, what they could/should do better next time, etc.

For all who are in the incentive draw, best of luck.

Carl
 
Just got off the phone with Ray in las cruses
Here's the numbers he gave me
156 were reported the first day
79 people killed 2 the first day ( those numbers don't jive)
Only 15 more people were entered in the drawing the second day (again don't quite make sense)
I voiced all my concerns and he was very helpful answering all questions.
 
I would guess that it's a matter of when harvest report data was received.

It is possible that 156 were REPORTED killed on day one.

It is also possible that as more harvest reports were received, it turned out that 79-people killed 2 on the first day; there were also probably quite a few who killed only one on the first day.

It is also possible that another 15-people REPORTED second kills on the 2nd day, so were added to the incentive draw.

Some folks can still meet the 5-day window for having their ibex checked at G&F office for ibex killed on day 2, so by end of day tomorrow G&F should have the final tally as to how many total ibex were killed and how many hunters killed 2 and are in the incentive drawing.

My guess from the start given the absurd 5-day window for reporting, and associated delay in data that would shut the hunt down, was that the total number of ibex killed would be about double the quota.
 
Multiple check stations were setup and hunters were urged to report harvests "as soon as possible." You then have 5 days to take in your 2 heads to prove you killed two so that you could be put in the drawing, but that isn't even a requirement. It is just necessary if you want your name in the hat for the billy tags. Recieving harvest numbers the first day was not the problem. They clearly recieved enough data to surpass the harvest objective.

Hunters were required to call the hotline each day prior to hunting to find out if the hunt was open or not.

My question is: If the quota was surpassed the first day, then why did G&F allow the second day? Someone made the decision to change the rules and I am just curious if they gave a reason or not.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-13
>AT 11:48?AM (MST)
>
>WAAAAAAAAAAAA
>
>We all knew this hunt would
>be a fiasco from the
>get go: WAY too many
>tags, harvest reporting not required
>for 5-days, nothing publicized regarding
>what a F/IM looked like
>or the fact that any
>animal recognizeable as a billy
>was very likely to be
>longer than 15-inches in the
>first place, etc.
>
>I was blessed to kill 2.
> One first day, one
>second day. I'm probably
>one of the few who
>killed 2 ibex that were
>calm and unaware of my
>presence. Certainly others did
>this too, but I'll go
>out on a limb and
>say that the majority of
>animals were killed by hail
>mary gunfire, at least based
>on what I observed in
>the area I was hunting.
>
>
>So because I killed one on
>2nd day, I'm not "worthy"
>to be in the incentive
>draw? Hmmm
>
>And apparently the guys I saw
>lay into a herd of
>3 running nannies the first
>day at 100+yards, killing all
>3 with a total of
>about 15-shots, which resulted in
>one with a blown-off jaw,
>one with a blown off
>leg, and another gut shot...apparently
>are "worthy" to be in
>the incentive draw because they
>killed the first day?!
>Slobs is what I call
>them, but hey, there's no
>regulation against being stupid while
>hunting.
>
>Or the guy I walked past
>who asked "you don't happen
>to have a tape measure
>do you?" apparently is "worthy"
>because he lucked out and
>the animal he killed was
>less than 15"? (for
>the record I didn't have
>a tape, but was very
>confident that his animal was
>less than 15" otherwise I
>would have taken down his
>information and reported it.
>Bottom line is that he
>shot first (another running instance)
>and asked questions later.
>
>I refused to take shots at
>running animals, animals beyond my
>effective range, or in locations
>that might be impossible to
>retrieve; therefore passed up several
>"opportunities" both days. But
>hey, I only killed 1
>first day, I'm not "worthy".
>
>
>Bottom line is Game Commission made
>the goofy requirments in the
>first place, hunt was left
>open for a 2nd day
>for whatever reason, rules say
>anyone who kills 2 and
>has them checked by G&F
>within 5-days is elligible for
>incentive draw. So be
>it: meet those requirements and
>you're in the incentive draw.
>
>
>Maybe anybody who shot more than
>twice to kill 2 ibex
>shouldn't be in the incentive
>draw? Or anyone who
>didn't bivy on the mountain
>shouldn't be in the draw
>(for the record, I did
>not). Or anybody who
>used a semi-auto? Or
>who didn't wear Hunter Orange?
> Or on and on.
>
>
>Can't change the rules after the
>fact, they are what they
>are.
>
>Whining and complaining on this website
>is just that. Write a
>letter to G&F & every
>single Game Commissioner explaining why
>this hunt was a fiasco,
>what they could/should do better
>next time, etc.
>
>For all who are in the
>incentive draw, best of luck.
>
>
>Carl


+1!!!! your spot on, i dont agree with the killing contest approach either.....i used to measure my sucess on how fast i filled my tags, now im a little more mature.....i took my time fired two shots and cleanly killed a pair, no wounding or leaving orphans on the mountain for me. I stopped hunting at 11:00 the first day to hike down and check my buddies two goats before continuing my hunt the next morning.......see you all back during the incentive hunt!!!
 
smarba and others.....for those of us that got NOTHING (and I'm fine with that), does anybody have any pics!!!!!

-Thanks, the only Ibex I saw was hauling but at 1920 yards... :D
 
Smarba. So your all about sticking to the rules that say anyone who kills 2 is in the draw. But not the rule that it closes after 125 are killed. They changed the rules and extended it. Your cool with that. Would you be cool if they change the rule again and send out an email that said only the guys who killed 2 before the quota was met are in the drawing. I think not. The only people cool with the extension are the ones that wouldn't be in the drawing otherwise. It's not about being worthy. It's about sticking to the rules. I do agree with you that there was plenty of unethical "hunters" out there but we knew that would be the case. We were on the mnt long before light and both killed our 2 before half the people started their "hike". Lol. The headlights were like fireflys down there.
 
A good friend and I spoke tonight. He was pretty fired up (to say the least) over his conversation with a warden at the LC office today. Here are the numbers as reported earlier, and in addition to what he was told.
224 nannies
56 immature Billy?s (Accurately reported as not part of the quota)
**In Addition**
1 40" Billy
1 28" Billy
Several others wounded.
No telling how many were lost, wounded, or never looked for. This was a classic example of not only mismanagement, but a truly unimaginative G&F department that cares nothing for our wildlife, only dollars and cents. The game and fish director (who expressed that ?NM Wildlife is a product, and not enough people are buying that product? at a recent meeting) and the entire game commission should be removed for this bogus hunt. Not only was it an insanely unorganized and irresponsible onslaught, but a public safety nightmare and a travesty to a truly magnificent trophy. It's disgusting to me that our "elected" officials came to this decision as the "correct" way to keep a wildlife herd in balance. Furthermore, it's blatantly apparent that these wise guys will do whatever it takes to earn another dollar, herds be d*amned.
Ibex were one of the few species that had numbers to spare, offered exciting hunts with lots of animals, and chances at truly mature and often trophy animals. I'm sure there is still a hunt-able herd up on the rock, but this herd, nor any for that matter could sustain another onslaught of this magnitude in combination with the usual list of hunts.
I'm in no way saying that depredation of the species was out of line or not warranted, but it was conducted, and continued in such a way that should make anyone with common sense sick to their stomachs. If you set a population harvest goal of 125 F-IM, STICK TO IT. I could care less about those of you who "didn't get a fair chance." Tough. Being "fair" only ensures that nearly 300 animals were harvested when 1/3 of that was the target goal. That doesn't include the latest check-ins, wounded, lost etc. And to let the amount of tags exceed double?maybe even triple the intended harvest quota is another fact that shows?money talks and forget the rest. Ridiculous, Irresponsible, Unwarranted and unjustified, especially by the elected officials of a game management system.
As someone who has harvested nannies in the past, and has bow hunted them as well, I sure hope we can continue to hunt these species in the future as they are amazingly fun to hunt, nannies included. A few more years of G&F's bright ideas, and I'm not so sure that'll happen.
But look on the bright side, they put over $100,000 in the bank from this. Great job NMGDF. A well-conceived, thought out and executed plan. Just when I thought my opinion of your management strategies couldn't get any lower. Thanks for correcting me. Mr. Lane, I'd sure say you achieved your goal of selling the product. It's too bad we don't have a manufacturing plant to re-stock the product you so willing auctioned off and slaughtered. Sorry for the rant.

P*ssed in Las Cruces
An AVID Outdoorsman/Hunter
 
Good points!

It is just amazing no one got killed!

I talked to several hardcore hunting friends that said NOOOOOOOOOOO WAY!

Whomever made this call, is a complete JOKE!

I am no Ibex expert. If the population needs to be reduced, do it like depredation off range oryx hunts. Issue X amount of permits for a month, come up with a harvest objective, and manage it.
 
Interesting to note the level of ironic hypocrisy of the folks that have lambasted Clownville's incredibly misguided decision in creating this debacle whilst scrambling over one another in their wild-eyed efforts at being the first down there to hose a couple (three, four, more?)

And now people are wimpering about the rules of this idiot contest not being 'fair'

Disdainfully pathetic...ALL the way around.
 
This hunt was no doubt a big fail from the get go, but to be honest here I'm just as sick about the so called sportsmen complaining about their odds on a incentive tag and not posting their success. You guys got to enjoy a great hunt that most only dream about, and all your worried about is the next ibex you can kill. It doesn't sound like a few of you really care about the hunt or the well being of this unique species here in nm. Just your next tag.




I just call em as I see em!
 
ALL I CAN SAY IS NMG&F SUCKS, the fishing sucks the deer hunting is getting worse, the antelope hunting sucked and hell im just waiting on them to do something with the elk since thats all we have left!!
 
AZDog: I have no information regarding whether or not G&F had reached quota on day one. All I'm saying is they kept the hunt open for day 2. We all suspected that the quota would be exceeded. So if by chance G&F had checked numbers of 130 ibex by 10AM day one, with 65-people taking 2, would you say anybody that killed/checked in 2 after the 10AM quota fill would be ineligible for the incentive? What if somebody killed before the quota was filled, but didn't get down the mountain to check in prior?

Had G&F shut down the hunt Thurs PM I'd be absolutely fine with that. They did not, I do not know why, so be it.

I congratulate you on tagging out early. But don't put yourself on such a high horse. I did not bivy, but began hiking at 4:30AM and was at the top of the top where I wanted to be by 6:00: before shooting hours. And by the gunfire (in the clouds - what the heck were people seeing?!) it was apparent that many others had also done whatever it took to be in the position they wanted to be well before daylight.

I was thrilled with a successful hunt, on my terms, sticking to my code of ethics. When I reflect, despite the circumstances largely being a circus, I have absolutely no regrets, respected my quarry, and first and foremost was able to put some meat in the freezer for my family. While it's a nice bonus to have a chance at an incentive tag, it was not my primary focus and I was not willing to compromise myself in an attempt to meet the double quota sooner, by taking questionable shots.

I am mostly concerned that the herd may have been adversely affected by the harvest totals, which is something WE ALL should be voicing to the Game Commission.

Finally, since somebody asked, here are my ibex.

I thought that with all the activity I might see a mountain lion, so kept my predator call handy: I didn't see any, how about anyone else?

Carl

3710ibex_1.jpg


6353ibex_2.jpg
 
Make no mistake, this was not an enjoyable type of hunt. This was a job to get a chance at a billy tag. That Billy hunt is amazing.

I don't mean to say a nanny hunt is not fun (it is), but this was a depredation hunt where everyone knew they needed to get it done fast. It was, in effect, a competition.

I did not compete cause I drew the bow tag this year.

I basically know that I will never get a billy tag (bow tag doesn't count), but this saddens me cause now my odds are even worse. I believe everyone that harvested 2 deserves a shot at the billy tags. I also believe that G&F should have shut it down when the quota was met (like they said they would do) and not allowed the second day.

I'm upset about the whole situation. I would be even more upset if I had killed 2 the first day. Those guys have every right to be upset about the odds getting worse for them...just like the guys who harvested 2 because of the second day have every right to be in the drawing because G&F left it open.

I really want to know if G&F ever gave a reason for deciding not to close it despite quota being met.
 
I guess this hunt could mean different things to different people. I personally wanted to go on the hunt because it gave me a chance to get an ibex. I'm not a big trophy hunter, so I just wanted to the oppurtunity to hunt the rock, see these magnificent animals and possibly harvest one. That's why I have been putting in for the billy hunts but also the Nanny draw. Unfortunately I was not able to draw any of those before this hunt occurred.

Ultimately I decided not to go because it was being treated more like a depredation hunt and I didn't want to go out there for my first Ibex hunt and have hunters all over, bullets whizzing and probably seeing some unethical activity and wounded animals running around. So for me personally, I don't like how this hunt was conducted at all. I saw no reason for the incentive to kill 2 to get a chance at billy tags. There was over 600 people putting in every year for nanny tags because they wanted to have the oppurtunity to get an ibex and enjoy the animals. Now that hunt is gone and the odds of getting a quality enjoyable hunting experience with a good chance of getting an animal down there is not good.

I feel they should have just had more Nanny hunts on the draw and spread them out a little to acheive population reduction. For whatever reason, this wasn't even an option and they went with their knee jerk decision on this hunt. And then the game commission ran with it and decided to allow 2 and only those 2 would be in the incentative draw. Not sure of their motives, but whatever the reason I don't think it was a good decision.

Not trying to put down anyone that went on this hunt for the only reason to get a better chance at a billy hunt, just stating my opinion and frustration with how the G&F conducted this.

Travis
 
This slaughter hunt has to stop...close this hunt next year!

Irresponsible management from my perspective but I think G&F wants to eradicate the species.
 
The ibex hunt in the Floridas in my opinion is the best hunt in North America.
I know the bighorn guys will think I am crazy, but, I think ibex are cooler than sheep.

The 2 hunts my son has draw there have been a couple of the best hunting memories we have.

By luck or skill we have a great situation for a non indigenous species that can be pretty much isolated on that rock and offer a premier hunting experience and some revenue as well.
At 1% odds, I think you could even double the price of the tags and still have people willing to spend it.
It is easy to second guess the way this last hunt was conducted, however, there are always 2 sides to the story. Would be curious to here G&F's reasoning.

I just hope they are not bending to pressure to eradicate this great resource and revenue to NM.
 
+1 Paul!

I really am dying to hear their side of the story, but sounds like we aren't going to get it.

No question in my mind this ibex is the most unique hunting opportunity in the country. I think Barbary's are cooler than Bighorns too. Bighorns are only desireable because they are rare, and not even a challenge in this state. You can feed them out of your hand!...no wonder they struggle to survive.

I put in for everything, but if I could pick and only draw one tag, I would pick, 1-Ibex, 2-Barbary, or 3-off range Oryx before even considering a great deer or elk tag. They are just a better hunt. The Ibex hunt is not in the same league as far as difficulty goes and If I had already killed one the I would wish for Barbary every year. (I have killed 4 oryx).

I always knew I would never draw Ibex, but I was just getting Barbary's figured out and now cant seem to draw that at an easy 3:1 odds. :(
 
I actually sent G&F several emails asking why this hunt and the elk hunt in unit 30!!! several emails, sending no response!!
 
Wasnt it said somewhere that the estimated population was 900 and desired population was 400? If those numbers are correct they only reached half the reduction needed! It may happen again next year!
 
These animals live on a rock. Yes, there might be too many. G@F manage the herd.

There is no depredation to farm land etc.

Only thing left are elk BOYS! Look at that number of deer pernits.
 
>ALL I CAN SAY IS NMG&F
>SUCKS, the fishing sucks the
>deer hunting is getting worse,
>the antelope hunting sucked and
>hell im just waiting on
>them to do something with
>the elk since thats all
>we have left!!

Oh my freind, your wish is coming true! The FS is doing a great job making sure the Mexican gray wolf population is on the rise in the Gila and over the state line.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-13 AT 06:00PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/5002100_2321.jpg

7177100_2327.jpg


Tagged out both on the first day.
 
I would like to set a few thing straight. The whole reason for this hunt was to reduce the population. The carrying capacity for this mountain is around 500-600 Ibex. When the population is above this capacity the Ibex leave the Rock and they will move into adjacent Bighorn Ranges. Bighorn sheep are very susceptible to disease and competition. They were trying to keep this ibex overpopulation under control and not jeopardize the Desert sheep they spent 50 years trying to get a huntable population. With the population still over the carrying capacity, the herd is not in jeopardy.

Point #2 Nevermind the prior "mismanagement", the NMDGF was faced with this problem of overpopulation. This is a perfect example of the NMDGF using sportsman to MANAGE a population. With all this backlash it will only make the NMDGF not want to use sportsman to manage anything and will just find other was to deal with it.

With those facts laid out, I am not saying the way they conducted hunt was right or wrong I am just saying they were faced with a problem and dealt with it. We have all come up with an idea and it blew up in our face! lets all (including NMDGF)take this as a learning example and move on. I was greatful to get a opportunity to hunt this hunt and take one nanny. Lets not fight amongst ourselves and just be greatful they gave us another chance to hunt this awesome animal.
 
Point 1 and Point 2 are right on. The way the hunt was conducted was wrong on so many levels that almost everyone knew it was going to be a joke before it even opened. Then NMDGF made it even worse with every decision they made after the hunt started. I am not even sure we have seen the end yet.
 
Shawn:
GREAT points! While ibex are awesome, we need to make sure our desert bighorns are not adversely affected by an exotic species.

If they would have reduced the population by means of government sharp shooters everyone would be screaming. We should be thankful they let hunters have a crack it.

I spoke with Kevin Rodden at NM G&F about the hunt and he indicated they were taken by surprise by the demand and recognized that things need to be done differently next time.

G&F is seeking input (think suggestions/recommendations, not just bashing) so that things will be better in the future.

I'm thinking monthly hunts similar to off-range oryx.

Carl
 
Carl,

Something more along the lines of the off-range oryx hunts makes considerably more sense than what went down.

It was obvious to me from the beginning that NMDGF grossly underestimated the demand for this hunt. I know lots of people that showed initial interest, but decided not to participate as the details of the hunt developed...including myself.

Dave
 
Of course we would be screaming if they spent money on sharpshooters. That does not mean citizens cannot criticize the actions of government officials and just be grateful they didn't screw up worse.

I am glad someone is willing to admit they underestimated demand, but they sold somewhere around a 1000 licenses and 2000 tags. It seems to me that many hunters in such a small area is dangerous and they should have been more proactive in controlling how this hunt took place once they realized how many tags were being sold. Even if it means giving up some revenue.

Obviously suggestions and recommendations are more constructive than bashing. I like the recommendation of a hunt similar to the off-range Oryx hunt. I would suggest that nannies on the Rock are not as hard to find as off-range Oryx and a week or so per hunt is more than is needed.
 
just to throw in my 2 cents. If they would go to multiple seasons for nannies, I would hope they would place them in the months following the billy hunts and give all of them a rest prior to the start of hunts in the fall.
 
Is it true that checked animals were ear-tagged and marked as not for human consumption??
 
First I heard of that. They are not elk, but, they certainly are edible. If that is true, I would sure like to know the logic behind that.
There is enough waste going on already in my opinion with out giving guys that do not want to pack meat out an excuse.
Make a good stew or sausage no problem with ibex if you have half a clue what your doing in the kitchen.
 
Me too... it was one of the guys from church so I was a little surprised when he said... Let me see if I can confirm...
 
"Not fit for human consumption" has to be a joke. It's my understanding that any animals checked at the G&F check points did have either an ear tag or skull tag attached.

I believe that it was simply a method to ensure that nobody checked one animal, then came back an hour later and re-checked the same one to get into the 2-ibex trophy incentive draw.

I ground both ibex into burger and was pleasantly surprised - it's tasty! I had heard ibex were nearly inedible. Of course I've heard the same about javelina & mountain lion too, both of which I've found to be delicious so long as the meat is well cared for in the field and put on ice as soon as feasible.

I think your buddy misunderstood that April 1 is still a few weeks away...
 
Photos of ear tags:
5809p1020260.jpg


I asked the warden at the check station and he said they're perfectly fine for consumption; just the ear tags they had on hand.

nmhunt4food trekking the desert
 
hmmm... Well, if you don't know NOT TO EAT the tags maybe we should look at the feasibility of handling a firearm...

That is funny..
 
So I did some digging...

Game and fish ordered tags specifically for the ibex hunt but they sent the wrong ones with not enough time left to reorder so CWD tags were used. Apparently, the warden said he forgot to tell people the day before that they were safe to eat.


I really hope the dept is reading this...

At this point I think the dept has a lot of explaining to do. This event was poorly executed.
 
Has anybody read the 2013 regs? They are going to have the same hunt next year with a 125 Quota. I don't see anything about mandatory reporting. How do they know when 125 are killed? 5 day check-in for those that want to. Will they keep it open for 2 days to be fair to everybody?(sarcasm intended) Did they not learn anything from this last hunt? Apparently not!(Sarcasm again) I guess I shouldn't expect to draw any tags this year after getting that out of my system.
 
I seriously doubt they will do the same thing next year. They have admitted this hunt was a cluster f. They will make changes if the hunt takes place next year
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-13 AT 09:01PM (MST)[p]Straight from the reg book

Florida Mountains
*
. . . . . . . Feb. 21?Mar. 31, '14. . IBX?1?521 . Unlimited . 2

F?IM
(Any hunter who has successfully drawn another ibex hunt is ineligible for this hunt.)
*
IBX-1-521 is a Harvest Limit Hunt. Hunters are required to telephone the NMDGF Information
Center: 1-888-248-6866 prior to hunting in order to determine if the harvest limit has been met.
The hunt will close when 125 female ibex have been harvested or Mar. 31,whichever occurs first.
The bag limit for the hunt is two F?IM ibex. Hunters who have successfully harvested two F?IM ibex
during the IBX-1-521 hunt and who have presented their ibex heads within five days of harvest to an
NMDGF office or official for confirmation will be eligible to enter a drawing for one either-sex ibex.
ES Ibex Drawing information will be provided when the hunter presents two heads for confirmation.
 
I'm sure the regs were printed before the fiasco on the last hunt. They already said they are making changes to the hunt.
 
I'd like to see more pics. As many ibex were harvested, I find it odd that only myself and Carl are willing to show our pics of the hunt. Post em up!
 
Those ear tags are they same tags they use when they use drugs (tranquilizers) on a animal. They told me they put that on the tag in case someone kills an animal while the drugs have not metabolized. Even the ear tags used are being scrutinized? You guys are ruthless lol
 
Here's a link to my ibex pics and some scenery from this hunt..........I hope to be back with a billy tag sometime next year!

Scroll through these photos, BTW I took off my orange vest and hung it in a tree next to me to take the pics, no one in their right mind would have been without one on this hunt!

Ibex:
https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#AD5qXGF1GOl6Ml
 
First official no-go of the year from New Mexico on the Ibex Incentive draw. Congrats to the lucky 16 who hit the lotto.

nmhunt4food trekking the desert
 
Out of our group of 4 who killed 2 each. 1 drew a billy tag. It wasnt me and I am bummed more than I thought I would be.
Not to encouraging when I cannot draw a tag with a 14% chance and some of mey elk / antelope selections are less than that.
Good luck to those who scored.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-13 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/7515photo4.jpg

My buddies and I after the first morning of the depredation/incentive hunt. Wish we all would have drawn the billy tag.
 
Why did you think it was only one tag?? They sent emails saying it was 10 tags. They probably upped the number to 16 to try and keep the draw odds the same for the guys that killed two the first day.
 
The original post.It doesn't say 1,10 or 16. It would have been even worse, if people would have known there were that many Ibex tags up for grabs.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, JAN. 7, 2013:


IBEX HUNTING LICENSES OFFERED FOR FLORIDA MOUNTAINS

LAS CRUCES ? The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish will offer hunting licenses for female or immature male ibex beginning Jan. 9, 2013. The hunt dates will be Feb. 21 through March 31. All hunting will end when the harvest limit of 125 is reached.

Licenses will be available through the department online system and over the counter at department offices beginning Jan. 9. Any person who did not hold an ibex hunting license for the 2012-13 season is eligible to purchase one of these licenses. The cost of the license is $111 for residents and $1,630 for nonresidents.

This hunt is necessary because the ibex population is beyond the carrying capacity of the habitat. The bag limit will be two female or immature male ibex. Any hunter who harvests two ibex and has them verified by a conservation officer or at a Game and Fish Office, will be entered into a drawing for an either-sex ibex rifle hunt during the spring of 2014. All hunters must verify their harvests within five days.

All hunters must have a customer identification number to purchase these licenses. For information, please visit the department website at www.wildlife.state.nm.us or contact Kevin Rodden at the department's Las Cruces office at (575) 532-2100.
 
This is why people should read the commission minutes which stated 10 tags would be allocated for this hunt. I read the minutes and definitely wasn't going to share that information. Best chances anyone could have drawing a Billy tag if they were able to harvest two.
 
Good point. I was in no position to go on that hunt when it happened so I never really paid much attention to it.
Those are pretty decent odds.
 
Hunt1 +1...loose lips sink ships ;o)

G&F is taking comments, so give them input.

IMO there was so much demand for this hunt that incentive billy tags were unwarranted and are entirely unnecessary.
 

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