Idaho muzz help!

idhunters · Jul 21, 2008

With the everchanging rules in Idaho regarding a "legal" muzzleloader I am in need of a little advice.

The Idaho rules do not allow 209 primers or sabots. Powder must be loose (no pellets). In-lines are o.k. but the rules state the weapon must be "equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of the cap is exposed or visible when the weaon is cocked and ready to fire".

So, I have a hawkins traditional muzz but would like to upgrade. Anybody have any experience with a good shooting muzz that fits the criteria?

Everything I have looked at (other than the traditional style) have either a covered ignition or use 209 primers.

APBT · Jul 21, 2008

Lots of exposed primer type inlines out there. I had an Winchester X-150 which was an excellent shooter, it can use all 3 ignition sources, #11,musket and 209. Sturdy stock, handles like a dream. The only thing i did to mine was i took a file and marked the areas where the stock material was touching the barrel, removed that and then took a pop can, cut shims and free floated the barrel. Awesome shooting rifle!

www.GandersPowerbeltForu.Powerguild.net

Frontier · Jul 21, 2008

I haven't kept up with the latest muzzleloaders to know whether or not any new ones will let you use a percussion cap. I use a hawken 50 cal. with a green mountain barrel 1 in 28" twist and have not seen any in-lines do any better than this combination under the current Idaho regulations. If you have not upgraded your hawkens with a higher twist barrel it may be your best option.

wtrfowl · Jul 21, 2008

use a markesbery, I love it, it shoots great, so easy to clean, and to me its worth the price... you get what you pay for with out question, and even if idaho changes back to last years rules, you can still hunt with it.

idhunters · Jul 22, 2008

Hey thanks for all 3 responses. Those are really good suggestions. I hadn't thought about upgrading the barrel to a faster twist. What type of bullets do ya use with the 1:28? Where can you get those barrels?

I have heard of the markesbury-I will check out their website.

I didn't know some of the in-lines would accept 3 different types of caps.

What type of loads are you using in the Winchester and the Markesbury?

Thanks again!

APBT · Jul 22, 2008

X-150 was shooting everything from maxiballs, maxi hunters, 385 and 410 great plains conicals,powerbelts, bullshop conicals, Sabots.
Last target i shot before i sold it " why why whhhy!!?"
410 great plains conical with 80 grains pyrodex RS with truglo Open sights @ 100 yards and off my knee with the barrel on 2 cross sticks.

Powerbelts grouped 1" @ 100 yards, Maxiballs and hunters the same, Great Plains did a consistant 5/8" group @ 100 yards. Never messed with sabots that much due to my state not allowing them but the hornady sst did an 1 1/2" group @ 100 yards with 25mph wind.
Ran out of the bull shop conicals before i could work up a group.

You can get them for a little over $200 now.

www.GandersPowerbeltForu.Powerguild.net

Frontier · Jul 22, 2008

The 1 in 28" twist is a green mountain barrel called an IBS for interchageable barrel system specially designed for the thompson hawkens and renegades, takes about 1 minute to change. I bought mine from midway usa, I think the price was around $160. Even if you do buy an in line rifle I would still upgrade your hawkens for a backup. I did just that, I already had a Knight disc, which is now legal again in Idaho, but I will be using my hawkens this season. In Idaho we have to use conicals which fill the barrel to within .01", therefore making sabots illegal, but powerbelts are legal. I like shooting heavy conicals myself as to get the most efficiency out of the powder and works better for elk. I am a fan of gpr hornady conicals, the bull shop can't be beat, and no excuses make some good conicals. I bought a bunch of 490 grain conicals from buffalo bullets before they went out of business, which I really like, they have great lead composition. I get my best groups with 90 grains of pyrodex, but 110 grains works to for max load but don't really need that heavy of a charge.

idhunters · Jul 22, 2008

Thanks again for the advise. I didn't think the knight disc would be legal-what type of cap does it use and is it "visible"? The rules also state the bullet must be 100% lead-wouldn't that exclude the powerbelt (plastic skirt)? Freakin rules are confusing. I had great luck using the powerbelts, so I hope they are legal. I didn't know buffalo bullets went out, again, I had good luck with them.

I should have been a little more clear, I have a hakwken "replica" from cabelas so I don't think the green mtn barrels will be interchangable?

Keep the replys coming. Looking forward to hunting bucks in November with the old front stuffer!

APBT · Jul 22, 2008

Now if you have to use the All lead powerbelt, Do Not use the lighter weight 295s! I tested them and 70 grains Pyrodex Select was Maximum charge that could be use or else it came apart. The 348 all lead powerbelt does really good with 80g Pyrodex 2f.

www.GandersPowerbeltForu.Powerguild.net

Frontier · Jul 23, 2008

Here's the web address to Green Mountain for the upgrade in barrels. You can call them and ask them if their barrel can be put on a Cabela's Hawken rifle, I think they can with a little modification. The Cabela's Hawken I know has a 1 in 48" twist, if you haven't tried a hornady great plains conical, try one in 385 grains with a button. I would try between 80 to 100 grains of pyrodex. It might surprise you. I think the GM barrel will shoot heavier, "longer as a result", better and group better, but 385 grain conical and 90 grains of powder is no powder puff. I guess I would stay away from the all lead powerbelts. I did shoot the 405 grain or 444 grain, I forget, but my grip was the lead is so soft all I did was brush lead filings after every shot.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=hawkenrenegadestylerifles

flea_bitten · Jul 23, 2008

You need to check out this gun from traditions, I don't know how well it shoots but its got lots of modern features.....its exspecially designed for muzzleloading laws in the NW, this gun adhears to idahos laws, I have looked it over at cabelas and plan on buying one..... you can check out the link...... http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/e...ory=Muzzleloaders:+Pursuit+LT+WEST+(In+Lines)

smokepoler63 · Jul 24, 2008

I live and hunt in Idaho and own three muzzleloaders, all .50 caliber. A remington 700 ML, a Thompson Center Black Diamond XR stainless, and a T/C Hawken with a stainless Green Mountain 1 in 28" barrel. The Hawken is set up with Lyman 17 AML front globe sight and a 57 SML rear peep sight. The front globe has a Lee Shaver insert in it. The inlines and the Hawken shoot sabots well, but the Hawken is a tack driver with Hornady 410 gr. Great Plains conicals or 400 gr. Precision Cast Keith nose conicals. I can't wait to hunt with the Hawken this fall.

Idahoron · Jul 24, 2008

I am another one with TC Renegades and GM fast twist barrels. Mine are so accurate that I won't even think about getting a inline. Mine have the same sights as smokepoler63, except the Gun with the blued barrel is a .458 with a 1-18 twist barrel. I can shoot up to 600 gr 45-70 bullets in this rifle. It also had a Lyman 57 SML peep but it has a Lee Shavers globe sight with a level. It is BAD ASS accurate ot to 200 yards, and my friends say it taking that thing to the woods is almost cheeting. Ron

idhunters · Jul 25, 2008

Thats what I am looking for-BAD ASS accurate!

I can't even think (or don't want to think) about some of the bucks I have missed with the muzz. I know its not supposed to be easy, and thats fine, but I just don't think I am doing myself any favors shooting a slow twist traditional.

Keep the suggestions coming and I will post up the results.

Anyone else hunting 47-3 (Idaho) this year?

Idahoron · Jul 25, 2008

Would these groups be considered "bad ass"?
Some of these are 50 yard and some are 100 yards

7mmgilbert · Jul 27, 2008

the powerbelt that is all lead is legal, the Sportsmans in idaho Falls had a copy of a letter from F&G that spelled out the reasons it met the requirements