IMPORTANT - The Trail Camera Hearing is One week away

[javihammer]

I noticed the link with the hearing information got buried so I am reminding everyone that the hearing is one week from today.

There will probably be plenty of anti-camera regulation outfitters presenting themselves as regular hunters at this hearing. The Commisioners and future Utah hunters would benefit from supporters of the full trail camera ban showing up in person to affirm the recreational hunter view rather than the corporate hunting view.

Meeting Details....

1157 South Waterfowl Way
Farmington, Utah

It Looks like the meeting is at 9am, you must be there on time in order to fill out a comment card.

For those that fear public speaking, I have seen people wear and pass out stickers or handwritten name tags that state their position. If possible consider bringing your Dad l/Uncle or the retired hunter next door. They might have more schedule flexibility on a weekday and are almost certainly anti trail camera too.

Remember, just because outfitters forced a hearing doesn't mean actual hunters or the WB should budge or compromise on anything. The ban should include all trail cameras (cellular and memory card) with no provisions for special interests or outfitters to buy themselves around the regulation.

Ryan

 

[Bigwiffy]

I'll be there to voice my disapproval of the ban. I'm not an outfitter, guide, or corporate hunter. I guess I'm not an actual hunter. Dang!

 

[Horsecorn]

Wiffy get of your big butt and actually go hunting the old fashioned way. Good hell

 

[Bigwiffy]

Wiffy get of your big butt and actually go hunting the old fashioned way. Good hell

Fat bottomed girls (and boys) make the huntin world go round.

 

[JakeH]

I was fairly neutral on the subject before the ban, I run some cameras but wouldn't mind seeing less of them in the hills. I also feel it will help some of the older animals live longer, or at least make it so they don't have as much pressure on them. (Harder to hunt something you don't know is there)

But after the guides pulled this stunt I am for the ban and feel it would be wrong to reverse the decision at this point.

 

[ridgetops]

I was fairly neutral on the subject before the ban, I run some cameras but wouldn't mind seeing less of them in the hills. I also feel it will help some of the older animals live longer, or at least make it so they don't have as much pressure on them. (Harder to hunt something you don't know is there)

But after the guides pulled this stunt I am for the ban and feel it would be wrong to reverse the decision at this point.

I was really bummed when I first heard about the restrictions but like you, after reading the outfitters social media response and exaggerated lies. I was turned off on being part of or supporting their cause. I'm content on whatever the wildlife board decides going forward. Well, I do oppose an all out ban on trail cameras.

 

[hossblur]

If you haven't emailed the board, you should.
Pro cam, or anti cam, I think we need to all agree this stunt pulled by the outfitters shouldn't be rewarded


"Wildlife Board members" https://wildlife.utah.gov/board-members.html

 

[javihammer]

Six days until the hearing. last day of this week to request PTO if you need to.

 

[Robiland]

I sent out emails yesterday morning and I think everyone of them responded back to me, personally. And what I mean is that they responded back to me by calling me by my name and not a generic response. I was quite surprised.

My email was to keep the seasonal ban. As others have said, alot of guides have turned me off big time. And as a few have said to me, "we will still kill big sh!7 without them." So, then go do it!!!

Landon

 

[hossblur]

I sent out emails yesterday morning and I think everyone of them responded back to me, personally. And what I mean is that they responded back to me by calling me by my name and not a generic response. I was quite surprised.

My email was to keep the seasonal ban. As others have said, alot of guides have turned me off big time. And as a few have said to me, "we will still kill big sh!7 without them." So, then go do it!!!

Landon

$5 gal gas vs cam. That's gonna suck

 

[elkassassin]

When You Get around 49+ More Rules/Changes Made To Help The Deer Herd Please Let Me Know!

One Little PISSCUTTER Change & A Bunch BAWLED!

 

[slamdunk]

I was fairly neutral on the subject before the ban, I run some cameras but wouldn't mind seeing less of them in the hills. I also feel it will help some of the older animals live longer, or at least make it so they don't have as much pressure on them. (Harder to hunt something you don't know is there)

But after the guides pulled this stunt I am for the ban and feel it would be wrong to reverse the decision at this point.

I agree 100%.

The mere fact that the Outfitters have created this "alliance" to fight the ban clearly shows the bigest reason for it.

 

[Bwht4x4]

The ban on baiting and the seasonal restriction on trail cams is what finally pushed me this year to burn my 25 LE deer pts. If they rescind the trail camera ban I'll be a bit annoyed and frustrated. Initially they should have banned them completely year round and stepped up and banned thermal imagery and spotlighting too.

 

[javihammer]

The ban on baiting and the seasonal restriction on trail cams is what finally pushed me this year to burn my 25 LE deer pts. If they rescind the trail camera ban I'll be a bit annoyed and frustrated. Initially they should have banned them completely year round and stepped up and banned thermal imagery and spotlighting too.

This is an example of what hunters do when the playing field is leveled and the cream isn't being siphoned off the trophy pool. Competing against thousands of cameras and scrambling for banquet tags to hunt animals that are named and tracked 24-7 by cameras their entire lives isn't what 99% of hunters participate in this sport for.

It also shows that regulating the corporate hunting tools probably energizes participation and more than offsets any lost revenue from camera regulation.

Trail cameras are probably a barrier to entry for some people since they may feel it rigs the system beyond the point where their hunting skills can compensate.

Ryan

 

[treedagain]

Just emailed the group, will see if I get a response

 

[Bwht4x4]

Just emailed the group, will see if I get a response

I emailed them a couple hours ago and have had two of them reply to me so far.

 

[elkantlers]

I'll be there to voice my disapproval of the ban. I'm not an outfitter, guide, or corporate hunter. I guess I'm not an actual hunter. Dang!

Bigwiffy on the way to the meeting. Can't afford to drive the ole diesel.

 

[BrowningRage]

If you haven't emailed the board, you should.
Pro cam, or anti cam, I think we need to all agree this stunt pulled by the outfitters shouldn't be rewarded


"Wildlife Board members" https://wildlife.utah.gov/board-members.html

I emailed them all, and got some very cordial responses from 4 of them.

 

[javihammer]

Five days until the hearing. have you emailed the wildlife board yet? Have you lined up a wingman to join you for the ride?

 

[treedagain]

Just emailed the group, will see if I get a response

1 response
"Thanks Jim"

 

[Elkslayer2015]

HaHaHa
It simply amazes me.
The board has received more emails over trail cameras, Then they got back from the trail camera survey.

After reading all the social media on trail cameras and all the stuff on MM.
Every hunter and outfitter had the opportunity to voice and express their concerns. all the RAC meeting dates where posted and so was the board meeting.

Didn't see hardly anyone at any of them. now a little thing like a trail camera that don't (kill/target/Aid/Take) gets a lot of recognition.
Now everyone is going? very interesting.

I think this is what is going down on march 10.
The board will listen to all the comments.
There will be a vote.
The cameras ban / season date will stay. but after all the backlash the board has received on their Emails from hunters/outfitters they might just flat out ban them.

Casey had the HB 0062 pushed threw for a reason.
Remember! Wade Heaton said his smart a$$ comment. we will still kill just as many with or without cameras.
The board has never overturned a vote before in the last 15 years that I know of.

4 more days will see what happens.

 

[hossblur]

HaHaHa
It simply amazes me.
The board has received more emails over trail cameras, Then they got back from the trail camera survey.

After reading all the social media on trail cameras and all the stuff on MM.
Every hunter and outfitter had the opportunity to voice and express their concerns. all the RAC meeting dates where posted and so was the board meeting.

Didn't see hardly anyone at any of them. now a little thing like a trail camera that don't (kill/target/Aid/Take) gets a lot of recognition.
Now everyone is going? very interesting.

I think this is what is going down on march 10.
The board will listen to all the comments.
There will be a vote.
The cameras ban / season date will stay. but after all the backlash the board has received on their Emails from hunters/outfitters they might just flat out ban them.

Casey had the HB 0062 pushed threw for a reason.
Remember! Wade Heaton said his smart a$$ comment. we will still kill just as many with or without cameras.
The board has never overturned a vote before in the last 15 years that I know of.

4 more days will see what happens.

We had our voices heard via survey before the meetings. Third time's a charm?

 

[Bwht4x4]

So far I've had Hirst, Albrecht, and Thurdgood respond to my comment email, which I really appreciate.

 

[javihammer]

Rest up, four days until the big show. I call it a show because in one state there was an outfitter that actually cried over trail cameras at one of the public meetings to discuss them.

Utah has some board members and at least one legislator with a solid backbone right now, It is fortunate to have all of these people together at the right time in history. Heroes for wildlife is a term that gets kicked around a lot but these people are making positive changes that will last for decades.

More privacy, less trash, better trophy quality for draw tags, less exposure to entitlements from special interests and more inclusiveness which helps engage future voters on hunting. What isn't there to like about regulating these things.

Ryan

 

[hossblur]

Few years ago Doyle, in a WB meeting was talking about how good the outfitters in the state were.

"If they sent us to Iraq it would have been over in a week"

I'm pretty sure they are planning to sue the DWR/state

They've gone radio silent, looks like they saw we were watching, so not clear how, but I caught that from a few

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I found out last week Kevin Albrecht is a Federal wildlife biologist or was one.

 

[travishunter3006]

Sportsmen: "We need to stick together or we will be the end of our own sport!"
Also Sportsmen: "You hunt differently than I do?!?! You LAZY SOB! You POS!! I hope they strip away your style of hunting in favor of mine!"

 

[hossblur]

Sportsmen: "We need to stick together or we will be the end of our own sport!"
Also Sportsmen: "You hunt differently than I do?!?! You LAZY SOB! You POS!! I hope they strip away your style of hunting in favor of mine!"

Outfitters:

"We all need to stick together, we are in this together "

Also outfitters:

" Sit on that elk, block that road, don't let those knuckleheads near that deer. "

"The legislature shouldn't be in wildlife management"

Also, : let's use a political loophole to bypass the WB

 

[roadrunner]

HaHaHa
It simply amazes me.
The board has received more emails over trail cameras, Then they got back from the trail camera survey.

After reading all the social media on trail cameras and all the stuff on MM.
Every hunter and outfitter had the opportunity to voice and express their concerns. all the RAC meeting dates where posted and so was the board meeting.

Didn't see hardly anyone at any of them. now a little thing like a trail camera that don't (kill/target/Aid/Take) gets a lot of recognition.
Now everyone is going? very interesting.

I think this is what is going down on march 10.
The board will listen to all the comments.
There will be a vote.
The cameras ban / season date will stay. but after all the backlash the board has received on their Emails from hunters/outfitters they might just flat out ban them.

Casey had the HB 0062 pushed threw for a reason.
Remember! Wade Heaton said his smart a$$ comment. we will still kill just as many with or without cameras.
The board has never overturned a vote before in the last 15 years that I know of.

4 more days will see what happens.

4 more days? Sounds like the decision has already been made.

 

[javihammer]

Three days until the meeting, It is better to be a player and contact the wildlife board or attend the meeting than to be a spectator and complain about how cameras are cutting your opportunity and privacy later. Step up or continue to be stepped on.

Ryan

 

[javihammer]

Two more days until the hearing, they will probably be tabulating public comments very shortly so if you don't plan to be there you should let the wildlife board know your thoughts very soon. if you are tech savvy enough to send an email you can be a player in this.

The corporate hunting side probably has access to automated email spamming software to the Wildlife Board that will likely be part of their fight to stop the regulation (I believe something like this was tried in Arizona). The Utah DWR likely has filters to identify and delete those comments however there is a lot of money on the line so hunters should expect the unexpected on Thursday.

If you are for camera regulation you should make sure the board knows you are for regulation of ALL trail cameras I would expect the Outfitters main tactic will be to try to argue to pull Memory card cameras from the regulation and shift the focus to cellular cameras since they are universally disliked and represent a very small percentage of the cameras out there.

The needle won't move on trail camera problems unless memory card cameras are included in the regulation so any suggestion that removing memory card cameras represents a middle ground would be a joke and an insult to the intelligence of the wildlife board.

See below for the email addresses of the wildlife board...

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Ryan

 

[Vitalwave]

Sportsmen: "We need to stick together or we will be the end of our own sport!"
Also Sportsmen: "You hunt differently than I do?!?! You LAZY SOB! You POS!! I hope they strip away your style of hunting in favor of mine!"

This is spot on...

 

[Vitalwave]

This whole issue feels like it could have been addressed with the outfitters that everyone is complaining about. 1% causing problems for the 99%.. Its like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[BGnight]

That's just what we need besides $3k optics and satellite maps on our phones with GPS. More surveillance technology to make hunting easier. Trail cams are gay on public land. They should be strictly for private land and scientific purposes. If I see a trail cam know you just took my picture without my permission and I WILL open your cam and take the SD card. K thanks.
I say make them fully legal but if you use them on public land then you "left" them in the woods and they belong to anyone that finds them. Seems fair and sporting to me.

 

[roadrunner]

That's just what we need besides $3k optics and satellite maps on our phones with GPS. More surveillance technology to make hunting easier. Trail cams are gay on public land. They should be strictly for private land and scientific purposes. If I see a trail cam know you just took my picture without my permission and I WILL open your cam and take the SD card. K thanks.
I say make them fully legal but if you use them on public land then you "left" them in the woods and they belong to anyone that finds them. Seems fair and sporting to me.

Kind of like finding someone's camp in the woods and helping yourself to their gear?

I agree, I'm game too...

 

[BGnight]

Kind of like finding someone's camp in the woods and helping yourself to their gear?

I agree, I'm game too...

Ha, maybe stealing them is a tad harsh, but I do think taking their SD cards is fair game. I'm guessing they lock though. Tape on the lens for sure.

 

[Bwht4x4]

That's just what we need besides $3k optics and satellite maps on our phones with GPS. More surveillance technology to make hunting easier. Trail cams are gay on public land. They should be strictly for private land and scientific purposes. If I see a trail cam know you just took my picture without my permission and I WILL open your cam and take the SD card. K thanks.
I say make them fully legal but if you use them on public land then you "left" them in the woods and they belong to anyone that finds them. Seems fair and sporting to me.

Your permission is not needed for someone to take your photo in a public place.

 

[roadrunner]

Your permission is not needed for someone to take your photo in a public place.

Define a 'public place'

 

[Bwht4x4]

As long as it's only for private use...

Not true. Millions of people are photographed every year in public and the picts are used commercially in many ways to generate money. I could take your picture in a public space and publish it in the newspaper without your permission.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Thanks for supplying easy access to emails, just took the time when I otherwise wouldn’t have.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Not true. Millions of people are photographed every year in public and the picts are used commercially in many ways to generate money. I could take your picture in a public space and publish it in the newspaper without your permission.

Basically true, but it depends how the photo is used, especially so for commercial use without a signed release.

 

[BigBuckz]

Two more days until the hearing, they will probably be tabulating public comments very shortly so if you don't plan to be there you should let the wildlife board know your thoughts very soon. if you are tech savvy enough to send an email you can be a player in this.

The corporate hunting side probably has access to automated email spamming software to the Wildlife Board that will likely be part of their fight to stop the regulation (I believe something like this was tried in Arizona). The Utah DWR likely has filters to identify and delete those comments however there is a lot of money on the line so hunters should expect the unexpected on Thursday.

If you are for camera regulation you should make sure the board knows you are for regulation of ALL trail cameras I would expect the Outfitters main tactic will be to try to argue to pull Memory card cameras from the regulation and shift the focus to cellular cameras since they are universally disliked and represent a very small percentage of the cameras out there.

The needle won't move on trail camera problems unless memory card cameras are included in the regulation so any suggestion that removing memory card cameras represents a middle ground would be a joke and an insult to the intelligence of the wildlife board.

See below for the email addresses of the wildlife board...

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Ryan

I am not looking to argue. I am just looking to have a conversation about this. Why do you hate cameras? Why do you want them banned so badly? I am undecided on the issue and looking for some input on both sides.

 

[Bwht4x4]

Basically true, but it depends how the photo is used, especially so for commercial use without a signed release.

I could take your photo and put it on a shirt and wear it all over town and be fine. If I printed off 1,000 shirts and sold them on Amazon, then we'd have a problem.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I could take your photo and put it on a shirt and wear it all over town and be fine. If I printed off 1,000 shirts and sold them on Amazon, then we'd have a problem.

Yup. If you'd like, I can email you a good of photo of me to print & put on your wall.

A newspaper or magazine is an animal of a different color, as well.

 

[Bwht4x4]

I already have a t-shirt I wear all the time.

 

[roadrunner]

Not true. Millions of people are photographed every year in public and the picts are used commercially in many ways to generate money. I could take your picture in a public space and publish it in the newspaper without your permission.

Sort of. If you use it in poor taste or in a manner that defames, discredits, or hurts any kind of reputation/image, well, I'll see you in court...

Also, how do the painted blue people of northern "Britannia" generate money commercially

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I already have a t-shirt I wear all the time.

View attachment 70436

Good job!

If you mean for elk, they no longer exist --kaput.

However, I will have 19 for antelope available next year if I'm still around.

 

[Bwht4x4]

Good job!

If you mean for elk, they no longer exist --kaput.

However, I will have 19 for antelope available next year if I'm still around.

I'm at 23 for pronghorn and will be at 25 for DBHS after 2022. May as well be zero if you're not in the max pt pool!

 

[dogvalleymule]

What day is the meeting

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I'm at 23 for pronghorn and will be at 25 for DBHS after 2022. May as well be zero if you're not in the max pt pool!

There's always that slim chance for someone in the 2nd round. A friend drew last year with 6 points.

I did sheep 10 yrs ago. I think it was with 22 pts.

 

[javihammer]

What day is the meeting

This Thursday, Mrach 10th, 9AM sharp if you want to make a comment.

 

[javihammer]

I am not looking to argue. I am just looking to have a conversation about this. Why do you hate cameras? Why do you want them banned so badly? I am undecided on the issue and looking for some input on both sides.

You can lookup my posts and see my reasoning behind this. A single trail camera isn't evil but when they are literally covering public land and the data is aggregated and sold and bought by businesses and used to block public hunters from hunt opportunities they are a problem.

Unlike other technology they are a tool used to outsource the hunting and make it all about the killing. As a person that takes pride in improving my skills in this sport allowing a tool that turns hunting into a mockery is offensive to me.

if you are still on the fence watch the Jimmy John elk video and ask yourself if you would be proud to call yourself a member of that kind of hunt fraternity. if you find the Jimmy John video offensive then support the camera ban and watch the forces that feed that kind of situation struggle like a turtle on its back. Trail cameras convey control to people that have proven for almost two decades why they aren't worthy of having it.

Ryan

 

[Vitalwave]

I am not looking to argue. I am just looking to have a conversation about this. Why do you hate cameras? Why do you want them banned so badly? I am undecided on the issue and looking for some input on both sides.

Here is a good counter argument video link to the Jimmy Johns elk video referenced before. I felt like it touched on some key elements.

 

[hossblur]

Is that a Texas accent?


Why put the video on YouTube?

The spin is that hunters were "pissed" at Jimmy.

No one was. We are irritated by the bounty hunters that sell this crap, then try to monetize it on You Tube.

We are irritated, that the corporate hunters, put this out in the world.

This wasn't Jimmy, this was dudes maximizing profit.

No one would know about that bull, but the desire to post, was #1,2& 3.

The "haters" had nothing to hate, until the paycheck boys, needed to prove how alpha they are.

When it's 25 vs 1, most of us cheer for the 1elk.

Ain't the first fat dude to kill a bull, I've killed plenty.

Stop spinning what dudes are hating on

 

[Bwht4x4]

He went on and on about the revenue brought in from the auction of the tag and how it went to manage wildlife. I'd rather see revenue brought in from the raffling of tags to the public so that the common man can buy a chance or two and stand a chance at winning.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Hossy?

You Ever Shoot a 470" Bull and then Ask:

That a Good One?

He Wouldn't Know a 300" Bull From a 500" Bull if The Posse Wasn't There To Tell Him!

There's More To The Story Than What Was Mentioned in The YouTube Video!

 

[2lumpy]

If I had my way, this but one of 49 more changes/restrictions should would be made. So as far as I’m concerned I could care less what they decide because all I care about is growing more mule deer and more elk. I don’t think this law will matter in the least, so far as growing the number of deer and thus increasing the opportunity to hunt deer in the future, and I’m darn sure don’t see, for the life of me, how they (DWR and the courts) will enforce this and I believe it is illegal for sportsmen to take it upon themselves. And it may well be illegal for “them” to infer that sportsman can.

Now, I won’t be at the hearing nor will I be sending anyone an email or a letter, the real reason I wanted to post is this:

If you are a fisherman, I know for a fact you better load your cannons because the flyfishermen are watching to see if this passes again, if it does they’re going to be coming after your sonar, fish finders, and under water cameras. There’s a bunch of them that find fishing electrics as unethical as you find trail camera and hunting.

They are going to pounce like a cat if this regulation is finally enacted. And I’m pretty sure it is going to.

The folks who want to outlaw trail cams may not give a rats ass about fishing but others who do care, will eventually be effected do.

You can stomp up and down all you want but in the mind of a Judge, there is very little difference in concept and outcome. Just the species.

If you fish, and you use electronics you might give the consequences of what the Wildlife Board does a second thought, because it’s not going to end with trail cameras. That is as predictable as the sun coming up in the east.

Part of our problem, when it comes to these issues, we rarely give the big picture a really going over, prior to moving forward. Many of us, including the bureaucracy don’t consider the broad reaching consequences of our actions.

Yup, I’m as guilty as anybody.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Lumpy!

We Are All Guilty!

But Damn Wasn't It All FUN & GAMES Until We Woke Up One Day & Realized Our QUALITY In Our Deer Herd Was GONE!

Technology of Who Knows how may Different Types Has Put a Major HURT On the Herds!

But Most Are Not Gonna Wanna Give!

And One Small Change Won't Fix It!

 

[UtyoteKiller]

You can return a caught fish back to the water to spawn , you can't return a killed animal back to the land to breed.

 

[2lumpy]

Hey Lumpy!

We Are All Guilty!

But Damn Wasn't It All FUN & GAMES Until We Woke Up One Day & Realized Our QUALITY In Our Deer Herd Was GONE!

Technology of Who Knows how may Different Types Has Put a Major HURT On the Herds!

But Most Are Not Gonna Wanna Give!

And One Small Change Won't Fix It!

Absolutely true and you tried to tell me that many years ago. I should have listened to you then.

 

[elkassassin]

Them F'N Treble Hooks Hurt!

I'm Tellin Ya!

You can return a caught fish back to the water to spawn , you can't return a killed animal back to the land to breed.

 

[2lumpy]

And Bobcat, the biggest change in hunting technology, so far as mule deer are concern was the change in the use of 1080. The second biggest problem was we never prepared for the secondary consequences of outlawing predator poison, by saving the birds of prey, in that way, was the certain death of mule deer. Nobody ever gave the deer a second thought when we outlawed 1080 because it was a bird of prey issue. The focus was on the birds not the deer.

Now they will never get that genie back in the bottle.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

It Killed Some MagPies!

And Crows!

But We Saved Them!

They Raise Hell With Small Game!

But They Are Protected Now!

 

[BigBuckz]

You can lookup my posts and see my reasoning behind this. A single trail camera isn't evil but when they are literally covering public land and the data is aggregated and sold and bought by businesses and used to block public hunters from hunt opportunities they are a problem.

Unlike other technology they are a tool used to outsource the hunting and make it all about the killing. As a person that takes pride in improving my skills in this sport allowing a tool that turns hunting into a mockery is offensive to me.

if you are still on the fence watch the Jimmy John elk video and ask yourself if you would be proud to call yourself a member of that kind of hunt fraternity. if you find the Jimmy John video offensive then support the camera ban and watch the forces that feed that kind of situation struggle like a turtle on its back. Trail cameras convey control to people that have proven for almost two decades why they aren't worthy of having it.

Ryan

So do you use optics, rangefinders, radios, long range rifles? I would say all of those was used just as much as a trail camera to kill that jimmy john bull. Because one giant elk died I should be against trail cameras? Do I agree with the way the elk was hunted? No I do not but does that make there way of hunting wrong? I hate to see hunters attacking other hunters because they don't agree with each others hunting tactics. Everybody does not hunt the same way we all hunt for different reasons. Instead of trying to ban and regulate a fellow hunters way of hunting may be you should support him. You never know may be your way of hunting will be under attack next. If we ban and regulate everything too make everybody happy there will be no hunt left.

 

[hossblur]

Hey Hossy?

You Ever Shoot a 470" Bull and then Ask:

That a Good One?

He Wouldn't Know a 300" Bull From a 500" Bull if The Posse Wasn't There To Tell Him!

There's More To The Story Than What Was Mentioned in The YouTube Video!

What's the drop on my 06' on that shot? 4-5 ft?

 

[hossblur]

So do you use optics, rangefinders, radios, long range rifles? I would say all of those was used just as much as a trail camera to kill that jimmy john bull. Because one giant elk died I should be against trail cameras? Do I agree with the way the elk was hunted? No I do not but does that make there way of hunting wrong? I hate to see hunters attacking other hunters because they don't agree with each others hunting tactics. Everybody does not hunt the same way we all hunt for different reasons. Instead of trying to ban and regulate a fellow hunters way of hunting may be you should support him. You never know may be your way of hunting will be under attack next. If we ban and regulate everything too make everybody happy there will be no hunt left


Pretty comical you want to circle the wagon to protect corporate hunters, as they seek to limit you.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Hossy?

Nothing against Your 06!

But!

Yours Must Shoot Flatter than most!

If The Shot was 960 Yards?

You'd have to Add a Little More Arc than 4-5 ft!

How about around 26-27 ft!

You Can GUESSTIMATE That With a Hold-Over Right?

What's the drop on my 06' on that shot? 4-5 ft?

 

[hawkbill]

If nothing else it will be nice to keep that Chinese plastic out of the forest. Trash in the Forest!

 

[Bluehair]

And to keep the pressure off of water holes.

 

[hawkbill]

Exactly- keep every waterhole, Creek,wallow,Tank cleaner than you found it. It still boggles me who thought you could just leave this crap in the woods.

 

[Horsecorn]

Hay bigbucks. If that’s the case then you won’t mind me spotlighting the crap out of the bucks then. ( never mind me if I hunt different than you)

 

[hossblur]

Hey Hossy?

Nothing against Your 06!

But!

Yours Must Shoot Flatter than most!

If The Shot was 960 Yards?

You'd have to Add a Little More Arc than 4-5 ft!

How about around 26-27 ft!

You Can GUESSTIMATE That With a Hold-Over Right?

I shoot core lokts, so I'm sure you can cut a foot or two off for them?

 

[elkassassin]

JUDAS!

I shoot core lokts, so I'm sure you can cut a foot or two off for them?

 

[roadrunner]

If I had my way, this but one of 49 more changes/restrictions should would be made. So as far as I’m concerned I could care less what they decide because all I care about is growing more mule deer and more elk. I don’t think this law will matter in the least, so far as growing the number of deer and thus increasing the opportunity to hunt deer in the future, and I’m darn sure don’t see, for the life of me, how they (DWR and the courts) will enforce this and I believe it is illegal for sportsmen to take it upon themselves. And it may well be illegal for “them” to infer that sportsman can.

Now, I won’t be at the hearing nor will I be sending anyone an email or a letter, the real reason I wanted to post is this:

If you are a fisherman, I know for a fact you better load your cannons because the flyfishermen are watching to see if this passes again, if it does they’re going to be coming after your sonar, fish finders, and under water cameras. There’s a bunch of them that find fishing electrics as unethical as you find trail camera and hunting.

They are going to pounce like a cat if this regulation is finally enacted. And I’m pretty sure it is going to.

The folks who want to outlaw trail cams may not give a rats ass about fishing but others who do care, will eventually be effected do.

You can stomp up and down all you want but in the mind of a Judge, there is very little difference in concept and outcome. Just the species.

If you fish, and you use electronics you might give the consequences of what the Wildlife Board does a second thought, because it’s not going to end with trail cameras. That is as predictable as the sun coming up in the east.

Part of our problem, when it comes to these issues, we rarely give the big picture a really going over, prior to moving forward. Many of us, including the bureaucracy don’t consider the broad reaching consequences of our actions.

Yup, I’m as guilty as anybody.

Most fisherman and boaters don't know how to use their electronics and sonar is a navigation safety device.

They can't ban sonar. No chance.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So do you use optics, rangefinders, radios, long range rifles? I would say all of those was used just as much as a trail camera

Whatever tag you have in your possession. The targeting starts with that animal correct.

I run cameras. I have fun with my kids looking threw the pics,but when it comes time for hunting, I will go to the area I have had the most animals or the biggest animals located on my trail cameras. just like everyone else would do.
all of this is happening while I'm at work or sitting at home on the couch.

I disagree trail cameras get used a lot more. some cameras stay up year round in my area.
The cameras really start showing up on water holes and wallows and trails, around Memorial Day weekend and stay up after the rifle deer hunt.This is public land/ I know LE units are even worse.

yes,I agree we all hunt differently for sure.

But when it come to trail cameras were not different. trail cameras do one thing and one thing only.( TARGETS WILDLIFE). doesn't matter who's running them.

This has nothing at all with taking rights away. trail cameras have been a useful tool for hunters over the last 15 years.
Anyone that runs them knows it will be harder to hunt without them. I know i will have to step up my game.
All they are doing is putting a season date on them. you can still use them just not during hunting season.

 

[javihammer]

The trail camera meeting is tomorrow at 9am. if the arguments at the meeting are like the ones on this thread you should bring some skis and a fork because there will be plenty of slippery slopes and red herring available.?

Ryan

 

[JakeH]

I just hade Wade Heaton tell me in a response E-mail that quote: "FYI - this has not really been an outfitter driven issue. We are hearing from 100s of average hunters who would like the ban repealed. Thanks."

That's laughable at best.

This was my response.

"This has 100% been an outfitter driven issue. Yeah you have regular everyday people jumping on with them but they are 100% the driver of the bus to get it repealed."

 

[Elkslayer2015]

The trail camera meeting is tomorrow at 9am. if the arguments at the meeting are like the ones on this thread you should bring some skis and a fork because there will be plenty of slippery slopes and red herring available.?

Ryan

javihammer Thanks for keeping people up to date.

My emails have been sent to the board twice one after the meeting was over in january and the other 2 weeks ago and everyone of them have responded back to me.

They are very well aware of what trail cameras have done for hunters/ guides.

Might need S.W.A.T at the meeting.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I just hade Wade Heaton tell me in a response E-mail that quote: "FYI - this has not really been an outfitter driven issue. We are hearing from 100s of average hunters who would like the ban repealed. Thanks."

That's laughable at best.

This was my response.

"This has 100% been an outfitter driven issue. Yeah you have regular everyday people jumping on with them but they are 100% the driver of the bus to get it repealed."

JakeH
I got the same Email. my reply back to him was 100s That's it, do you realize there are 114,606 applicants that apply for general season deer permits.

That was 2 weeks ago no response back.

 

[elkantlers]

I bet $5 diesel will deter a few from making the meeting.

 

[BigBuckz]

Hay bigbucks. If that’s the case then you won’t mind me spotlighting the crap out of the bucks then. ( never mind me if I hunt different than you)

If you follow the laws and regulations of spotlighting for hunting. Then yes I would say go ahead if that's the way you choose to hunt.

 

[Vitalwave]

There was only an 11% difference from those that opposed and those who supported the ban based on the public survey they collected. I think some of you guys on this thread think this is more of an 80/20 split where a vast majority support the ban. Its a lot closer than you think. It passed by one vote from the board. I just don't feel like this process has been a good way to address issues when its fairly split.

I wrote the group an email and suggested taking a more scientific objective approach but doubt it will go that way. Why don't they isolate the problem to the handful of guilty guides and units this is happening on? Why don't they run a test on a unit or two that are experiencing the most negative feedback and see how it goes/report back? Seems like they could do a little more due diligence when making a rule change and a piece of technology that has been used for the better part of the last 20 years.

I am just worried if the squeaky wheel keeps getting the grease what does this means for future changes? I am with @BigBuckz that its not a big deal until the next change affects how you like to hunt. Unless you anti cam guys are all a bunch of Jeremiah Johnson's or cavemen killing stuff with your bare hands I would be careful about how much complaining you do because down the road it may affect your form of hunting.

 

[BigBuckz]

Whatever tag you have in your possession. The targeting starts with that animal correct.

I run cameras. I have fun with my kids looking threw the pics,but when it comes time for hunting, I will go to the area I have had the most animals or the biggest animals located on my trail cameras. just like everyone else would do.
all of this is happening while I'm at work or sitting at home on the couch.

I disagree trail cameras get used a lot more. some cameras stay up year round in my area.
The cameras really start showing up on water holes and wallows and trails, around Memorial Day weekend and stay up after the rifle deer hunt.This is public land/ I know LE units are even worse.

yes,I agree we all hunt differently for sure.

But when it come to trail cameras were not different. trail cameras do one thing and one thing only.( TARGETS WILDLIFE). doesn't matter who's running them.

This has nothing at all with taking rights away. trail cameras have been a useful tool for hunters over the last 15 years.
Anyone that runs them knows it will be harder to hunt without them. I know i will have to step up my game.
All they are doing is putting a season date on them. you can still use them just not during hunting season.

So i guess you would be willing to give up your optics, and rangefinder? Those are also useful tools for hunting. Maybe we should have a season on them too just can't use them during the season. You can use them the rest of the year isn't that kind of the same thing?

 

[treedagain]

I did get an interesting email from Wade Heaton telling me that most average hunters want trail cameras

 

[BigBuckz]

JakeH
I got the same Email. my reply back to him was 100s That's it, do you realize there are 114,606 applicants that apply for general season deer permits.

That was 2 weeks ago no response back.

I think they should survey all the applicants every year on topics like this before putting in for big game hunts. I think we would call be suprised what the general public really wants on these issues.

 

[BigBuckz]

There was only an 11% difference from those that opposed and those who supported the ban based on the public survey they collected. I think some of you guys on this thread think this is more of an 80/20 split where a vast majority support the ban. Its a lot closer than you think. It passed by one vote from the board. I just don't feel like this process has been a good way to address issues when its fairly split.

I wrote the group an email and suggested taking a more scientific objective approach but doubt it will go that way. Why don't they isolate the problem to the handful of guilty guides and units this is happening on? Why don't they run a test on a unit or two that are experiencing the most negative feedback and see how it goes/report back? Seems like they could do a little more due diligence when making a rule change and a piece of technology that has been used for the better part of the last 20 years.

I am just worried if the squeaky wheel keeps getting the grease what does this means for future changes? I am with @BigBuckz that its not a big deal until the next change affects how you like to hunt. Unless you anti cam guys are all a bunch of Jeremiah Johnson's or cavemen killing stuff with your bare hands I would be careful about how much complaining you do because down the road it may affect your form of hu

I agree

 

[BigBuckz]

I did get an interesting email from Wade Heaton telling me that most average hunters want trail cameras

I think you would actually be suprised how much truth there is too that. I don't agree with cell cameras but have no issue with SD card internal memory cameras. I am just an average DIY hunter with no outfitter or guide interest.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So i guess you would be willing to give up your optics, and rangefinder? Those are also useful tools for hunting. Maybe we should have a season on them too just can't use them during the season. You can use them the rest of the year isn't that kind of the same thing?

I started with hunting with open sights 32 years ago I hunted with 30 30 mod 94 open sight and 8mm Mauser open sights. I was very successful I still have the guns so I do not have a problem going back.
My 17 year old son doesn't have a problem using open sights he harvested a cow elk with grandpas 8mm Mauser as well on public land.

what's the problem with season dates on trail cameras?
we have season dates on a lot of things roads/big game/waterfowl/bears ect.

It has nothing to do with they are taking our rights away.
The problem is people don't know how to hunt without them period.
It's definitely going to make it harder for me without running cameras during hunting season but I'm good with it.

 

[BigBuckz]

I started with hunting with open sights 32 years ago I hunted with 30 30 mod 94 open sight and 8mm Mauser open sights. I was very successful I still have the guns so I do not have a problem going back.
My 17 year old son doesn't have a problem using open sights he harvested a cow elk with grandpas 8mm Mauser as well on public land.

what's the problem with season dates on trail cameras?
we have season dates on a lot of things roads/big game/waterfowl/bears ect.

It has nothing to do with they are taking our rights away.
The problem is people don't know how to hunt without them period.
It's definitely going to make it harder for me without running cameras during hunting season but I'm good with it.

Why do we care how a guy hunts with or without a camera? What effect does it have on your hunt if a guy chooses to use his camera? Will it make some guys hunts harder not having them? I would say yes but is that one thing of technology going to make him less successful? I would say no not enough to make a difference for the herds. We have passed the turn on evolving technology along time ago that makes us better hunters. You say you would be fine going back to your old 30-30 or 8mm mouser. I'm sure you would even for those old guns there is now better more effective ammunition choices that perform better then the old days. It doesn't matter what we take away the technology has made everything better. We are just more efficient killers now because of technology. Maybe we look at limiting season dates less days to hunt too try and fill that tag. I feel like that would give the animals breaks between hunts. Possibly a chance to survive if we dont have those extra couple days on a hunt too kill them all. Just my thoughts

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Maybe we look at limiting season dates less days to hunt too try and fill that tag. I feel like that would give the animals breaks between hunts. Possibly a chance to survive if we dont have those extra couple days on a hunt too kill them all. Just my thoughts

I agree with this 100% .

 

[elkhunter81]

Why do we care how a guy hunts with or without a camera? What effect does it have on your hunt if a guy chooses to use his camera? Will it make some guys hunts harder not having them? I would say yes but is that one thing of technology going to make him less successful? I would say no not enough to make a difference for the herds. We have passed the turn on evolving technology along time ago that makes us better hunters. You say you would be fine going back to your old 30-30 or 8mm mouser. I'm sure you would even for those old guns there is now better more effective ammunition choices that perform better then the old days. It doesn't matter what we take away the technology has made everything better. We are just more efficient killers now because of technology. Maybe we look at limiting season dates less days to hunt too try and fill that tag. I feel like that would give the animals breaks between hunts. Possibly a chance to survive if we dont have those extra couple days on a hunt too kill them all. Just my thoughts

I think you addressed the issue with your statement." We are just more efficient killers now because of technology."
We are not trying to be hunters anymore just killers

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Why do we care how a guy hunts with or without a camera?

I don't care at all. but what pisses me off is when people say they don't help in any way and they truly know what they do.
I could care less which way this goes. I just want this crap over with.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

It doesn't matter what we take away the technology has made everything better. We are just more efficient killers now because of technology.

who's fault is that? who has caused technology to get to this point?
Hunters have I'm just as guilty
The DNR has stepped in for good reason on this.

 

[Vitalwave]

who's fault is that? who has caused technology to get to this point?
Hunters have I'm just as guilty
The DNR has stepped in for good reason on this.

True, but the board/DNR has other tools to address this such as selling the right amount of tags and requiring harvest reporting on all big game hunts. I think that is why many of the limited entry hunts in Utah are so great. They still probably oversell on some of those units but by and large Utah has some great limited entry elk and deer hunts. The downside is they are crazy hard to draw.

 

[elkhunter81]

True, but the board/DNR has other tools to address this such as selling the right amount of tags and requiring harvest reporting on all big game hunts. I think that is why many of the limited entry hunts in Utah are so great. They still probably oversell on some of those units but by and large Utah has some great limited entry elk and deer hunts. The downside is they are crazy hard to draw.

So you would rather them cut tags and make it harder to draw versus a season on cameras?

 

[Vitalwave]

So you would rather them cut tags and make it harder to draw versus a season on cameras?

No, I am fine with how things are currently and didn't want to change one way or another.

I believe it is true that technology has helped harvest rates. If that is the problem people have with cameras then I see a couple solutions. 1. We need to reduce success rates by taking away technological advances or 2. Limit tags to match the new success rates. There are pros and cons to each. The problem with limiting technology is it becomes very subjective and hypocritical. What tool do we limit and to what extent? I guess another solution would be to test it out on a couple units so you have a control unit and a variable unit and see what happens. I don't feel like we do a very good job analyzing objective facts before we pull the trigger on a new law or rule. I have a feeling cams aren't the major driver anyways but the test hasn't been run so who knows?

 

[javihammer]

I think you would actually be suprised how much truth there is too that. I don't agree with cell cameras but have no issue with SD card internal memory cameras. I am just an average DIY hunter with no outfitter or guide interest.

Interesting, earlier in this thread you said you were undecided on the issue and now like a day later you are speaking the corporate line about supporting memory card cameras and are against cell cameras. I suspect you have been a camera man all along ?.

I would say I am shocked but I already covered this little bait and switch cellular/memory card argument over a week ago on the original trail camera thread that got buried deeper on the Utah forum. Predictable.

Also predictable and covered in the other thread is the tactic of puffing the numbers to suggest the ban opponents are equal to the supporters. This is the same thing Heaton did in his reply to another hunter and you seemed to support it. The goal of the puffing the anti regulation numbers is to plead for middle ground when there is no valid reason at all for the board to soften the language of the original regulation.

Ryan

 

[Vitalwave]

Interesting, earlier in this thread you said you were undecided on the issue and now like a day later you are speaking the corporate line about supporting memory card cameras and are against cell cameras. I suspect you have been a camera man all along ?.

I would say I am shocked but I already covered this little bait and switch cellular/memory card argument over a week ago on the original trail camera thread that got buried deeper on the Utah forum. Predictable.

Also predictable and covered in the other thread is the tactic of puffing the numbers to suggest the ban opponents are equal to the supporters. This is the same thing Heaton did in his reply to another hunter and you seemed to support it. The goal of the puffing the anti regulation numbers is to plead for middle ground when there is no valid reason at all for the board to soften the language of the original regulation.

Ryan

The 11% more number is coming straight from Kevin Albrecht mouth. Where are the numbers being puffed? Do you have access to their survey data? Maybe ill stand corrected.

 

[elkhunter81]

In the responses I have received back from board members, they thank me for being involved and expressing my opinion and say they have heard about every angle from everyone who has written in. So I guess we will see how it plays out tomorrow.

 

[middlefork]

They pretty much admitted during the first vote that no matter what they did a lot of people would be upset.

My guess is what ever they do tomorrow there will be a lot of people upset again. It should be interesting to see who they are.

I would like to believe they would need to have a very compelling reason to change their vote if they do. Should be interesting.