It’s about time. (Utah)

D

DBG3285

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What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

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I like most of this bill….the part that allows for really loose rules on killing cougars is not a winning issue, and is what makes us all look bad. I believe the bill even allows for trapping cougars. Snider essentially said he didn’t really like that part but that every bill comes with give and pull.
 
mtnrunner260 said:
At least the ballot biology isn't anti in Utah but still not the place for Wildlife rules to come from.
This will result in 9 more cats being killed statewide. Biologically insignificant.
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Agreed, this kind of stuff is what gives ammo for ballot initiatives. I'm not sure who added that part into the bill.
 
So, the two main take always I see are

A- no cams at all July 31- Dec 31 (unless division research or private land security things) Clarified to remove the debate over “bird watching” or “no tag” arguments

B- cougar tags will not be a thing, but only the annual hunting license required?
 
All you dedicated guys going to pony up the increase hour fee, or enjoy arts and crafts time at the division offices to earn your hours?
 
Simply codified the trail cam rule, and amended it to allow cams on private property to stay up as long as they are internal storage cams and not data transmitting cams.

The cougar thing probably won’t change much in practice. While a cougar permit itself no longer exists, the wildlife board is still able under its authority to set seasons and limits. All the talks of giving antis ammo is just fluff.

Regardless of how you feel about cougars or trail cams, this bill authorizes $1 million per year in ongoing funding to acquire land and water for public access for fishing and hunting. Asking the governor to veto on principle for things that will have very little impact, and getting that provision vetoed as well, seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
Vanilla said:
Simply codified the trail cam rule, and amended it to allow cams on private property to stay up as long as they are internal storage cams and not data transmitting cams.

The cougar thing probably won’t change much in practice. While a cougar permit itself no longer exists, the wildlife board is still able under its authority to set seasons and limits. All the talks of giving antis ammo is just fluff.

Regardless of how you feel about cougars or trail cams, this bill authorizes $1 million per year in ongoing funding to acquire land and water for public access for fishing and hunting. Asking the governor to veto on principle for things that will have very little impact, and getting that provision vetoed as well, seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Well, I’ve seen lots of hunters (especially hounds-men) all over my IG and Facebook asking the Governor to veto it over this. It’s a good bill outside the cougar thing. It was really really stupid by whoever threw that in there. Say what you want about fluff…but that one line could cause enough noise to watch the whole bill go veto.
 
If it does, it won’t be because of antis. It will be because of hunters. So my point still remains, and so does your fluff.
 
Vanilla said:
If it does, it won’t be because of antis. It will be because of hunters. So my point still remains, and so does your fluff.
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It’s the anti’s currently blasting it through media right now bringing big attention to it.
 
Passing things like this through the legislature is a bad idea. These are decisions that the DWR should make. If the lion deal causes issues and ends up in lawsuits or federal involvement then the DWR’s hands are tied.
 
Carnage2011 said:
Passing things like this through the legislature is a bad idea. These are decisions that the DWR should make. If the lion deal causes issues and ends up in lawsuits or federal involvement then the DWR’s hands are tied.
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Also…the even stupidest part of this is, the cougar part was added like 20 minutes before the vote on the bill was held….I’ll try to see who added it.
 
The co sponsor slipped it in. He's a rancher.

It is funny how a bunch of dudes jumped in here after the trail cam season announcement last year, running their mouths about "bird watching", or "wildlife watching" as ways to exploit grey areas.


I guess MM is paid attention to more than you thought evidenced in this bill🤔.
 
When SFW has turned against you, you know you f****** up…this bill is gonna see the veto pen, which sucks because the $1 million guaranteed fund to buy wildlife habitat for the DWR would have been a great thing. You can all thank Senator Scott. D. Sandall who represents Box Elder, Cache, and Tooele for adding the cougar provision in 20 minutes before the final vote on the bill. Btw everyone from Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and the state Hounds-men association has also opposed the bill.

Here’s SFW:
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Here’s Sandall’s contact information, thanks for ruining a good thing douche.
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hossblur said:
The co sponsor slipped it in. He's a rancher.

It is funny how a bunch of dudes jumped in here after the trail cam season announcement last year, running their mouths about "bird watching", or "wildlife watching" as ways to exploit grey areas.


I guess MM is paid attention to more than you thought evidenced in this bill🤔.
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It really really sucks. You now have several hunting groups opposing the bill along with anti’s because of one moron rancher in the legislature who added coffee shop talk to the bill 20 minutes before the final vote….Politicians always find a way to screw what is overall a good thing.
 
notdonhunting said:
Just watched Governor Cox live on news and said he has no bills that he plans to veto.
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Well….he said you’ll see in the next 21 days lol. I get he kind of skirted around specific questions but he’s going to veto some bills. I’d expect this one. There’s a variety of groups asking this one be vetoed from both political spectrums.
 
Cox is from Sanpete.

I might know some locals in his neighborhood who are very supportive of this bill.

Sucks that a good bill got jobed, but like Snider said, the overall is a good bill.

Little shocked there is a D in Box Elder county
 
Oneye said:
When SFW has turned against you, you know you f****** up…this bill is gonna see the veto pen, which sucks because the $1 million guaranteed fund to buy wildlife habitat for the DWR would have been a great thing. You can all thank Senator Scott. D. Sandall who represents Box Elder, Cache, and Tooele for adding the cougar provision in 20 minutes before the final vote on the bill. Btw everyone from Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and the state Hounds-men association has also opposed the bill.

Here’s SFW:
View attachment 104682

Here’s Sandall’s contact information, thanks for ruining a good thing douche.
View attachment 104683
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Funny.

I keep getting told THE DON has nothing to do with $fw. It's almost as if, they are full of chit. Shocking, I know
 
hossblur said:
Cox is from Sanpete.

I might know some locals in his neighborhood who are very supportive of this bill.

Sucks that a good bill got jobed, but like Snider said, the overall is a good bill.

Little shocked there is a D in Box Elder county
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Scott is a Republican legislator. This bill is interesting, you actually had Republicans who opposed it/voted against it because of $1 million fund it gives to purchase habitat for the DWR. (Several R lawmakers opposed adding more public land in the state in discussions on this bill). I also don’t know that a lot of people realized this was snuck in there. A lot of D’s voted for the final version of the bill. In fact very few opposition votes to the bill came from Democrats. I’m honestly fine with the Governor vetoing it or signing it. There’s a lot of benefit in the bill vs what will likely end up being a handful more cougars killed statewide.
 
Oneye said:
Scott is a Republican legislator. This bill is interesting, you actually had Republicans who opposed it/voted against it because of $1 million fund it gives to purchase habitat for the DWR. (Several R lawmakers opposed adding more public land in the state in discussions on this bill). I also don’t know that a lot of people realized this was snuck in there. A lot of D’s voted for the final version of the bill. In fact very few opposition votes to the bill came from Democrats. I’m honestly fine with the Governor vetoing it or signing it. There’s a lot of benefit in the bill vs what will likely end up being a handful more cougars killed statewide.
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I like the bill. The cougar thing is a black eye for hunters PR, pushed mostly I would bet from livestock folks.

I'd like to see land buying as a stand alone
 
The DWR already manages cats. We dont need this from the legislature. This seems to be an overreach in my opinion.
There may be a lot of good in this bill but there is enough other that I’m against it. Also, the cameras are already regulated and public input had a day in that. Do we want politicians making these kinds of decisions for us? Just because we didnt all get the exact result we all wanted doesn’t make this right.
 
It's Already & Has Been Hard To Cut A Big Tom Track & Now This!

Now We Got Politicians That Really Don't Know WTF They Are Doing Making Other Peoples Decisions!

Even Though It Might Sound Good To A Bunch of You,Careful On Picking Your Poison!

They're Gonna Take/Destroy What's Easiest To Take First!

I Can't Wait For Year-Around Hunting On Deer & Elk!
 
I am not a fan of the sausage making process at the State Legislature, but I find it entertaining when certain sportsmen continually tell us that the lions have pounded and there are no mature lions left in Utah. The DWR admits that they don't really know how many lions are in the State of Utah but they estimate somewhere between 2,500 and 4,000. See Cougar Management Plan. That is a ton of cats, especially when you consider that a mature lion will kill on average between 40-50 deer a year. You do the math.

I am happy to see that we are putting some additional hunting pressure on lions. I know a number of guys who have purchased spot-and-stalk tags this year. Most of them have not even seen a cat but some of those guys have been successful in the last couple of months if they have spent time hunting the deer-wintering areas during the heavy snow. What does this tell me? The cats are targeting the deer at the most vulnerable time. The are smart, apex predators. As of this morning, only one of the harvest object areas in the entire state was closed. In other words, the state is telling us that we can still take more cats in those areas.

Take a look at Nevada, they allow year-round mountain lion hunting, day or night, with up to 2 tags per person. The fish and game monitors the harvest numbers and can close a particular unit of that unit reaches the harvest objective goals. Are cougars facing extinction in Nevada? No, but the State of Nevada is keeping their numbers in line and helping the struggling deer and sheep herds. It seems like the Utah DWR could do the same thing in Utah.

I have nothing against lions or houndsmand, but I am all for sportsmen and the DWR taking more cats and helping our struggling herds.

Hawkeye
 
How many of the bozos in the Legislature actually reed all of the literature in these proposed bills, and even give a shut about them before voting on them!!!
 
I am supprised nobody is talking much about Private land being able to use the trailcameras but not public land. This was passed last year and the saying was it is for the betterment of the animals, and to bring hunt back into hunting.
 
I hope the bill stays. I'm excited for the possibility of shooting a cougar in the very very very rare chance I come across one in the right circumstances. It gives you the benefit of the spot-and-stalk tag without having to waste money for an unused tag every year. It is doing the right thing without making it a money grab.
 
Gonna Load Your Ass Up hawkeye & Have You Show Me All The Big Lion Tracks in The State!

There's Snow Just About Everywhere!

You Should Not Have Any Trouble Showing Me Hundreds Of Tracks If The State Hold 1000's of Lions!

They Could Decimate Every Lion Tomorrow & The Deer Herd Would Still SUCK Forever!

What'Ya Gonna Blame It On Then?

There's A Bigger Predator Than Lions In This State!

Use That ROUND THANG Between Your Ears & THINK!



Hawkeye said:
I am not a fan of the sausage making process at the State Legislature, but I find it entertaining when certain sportsmen continually tell us that the lions have pounded and there are no mature lions left in Utah. The DWR admits that they don't really know how many lions are in the State of Utah but they estimate somewhere between 2,500 and 4,000. See Cougar Management Plan. That is a ton of cats, especially when you consider that a mature lion will kill on average between 40-50 deer a year. You do the math.

I am happy to see that we are putting some additional hunting pressure on lions. I know a number of guys who have purchased spot-and-stalk tags this year. Most of them have not even seen a cat but some of those guys have been successful in the last couple of months if they have spent time hunting the deer-wintering areas during the heavy snow. What does this tell me? The cats are targeting the deer at the most vulnerable time. The are smart, apex predators. As of this morning, only one of the harvest object areas in the entire state was closed. In other words, the state is telling us that we can still take more cats in those areas.

Take a look at Nevada, they allow year-round mountain lion hunting, day or night, with up to 2 tags per person. The fish and game monitors the harvest numbers and can close a particular unit of that unit reaches the harvest objective goals. Are cougars facing extinction in Nevada? No, but the State of Nevada is keeping their numbers in line and helping the struggling deer and sheep herds. It seems like the Utah DWR could do the same thing in Utah.

I have nothing against lions or houndsmand, but I am all for sportsmen and the DWR taking more cats and helping our struggling herds.

Hawkeye
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Ticks N Tines said:
Soooo... What am I supposed to do with my 13 cougar points???
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I’m at 18 points, I’m just glad there’s half a dozen or so dumb slap dychkes like me with even more points, maybe DNR could comp us a fishing license for a year and give us a front row seating priority at a rac meeting or at least give us a gold sticker.
 
All for banning trail cameras. All for effective predator control. All for fewer and shorter rifle hunts during the rut. All for issuing more tags with lower success rates. All for closing shed hunting season. Seems to me that they are taking proper steps. Now if they could claw back some of those auction/raffle tags and charge us all more to offset the lost revenue we could call it progress. They can auction off the ones that bring more than $100,000.
 
They could leave one small premium limited entry cougar unit in the draw system to satisfy the point holders and meet their obligations to the LE system. Kind of like what they did by offering one Dedicated hunter tag in the draw to satisfy the requirements and keep them out of legal fraud like issues. They had some heat the year they took everyones application fee for DH units that offered no tags and then they fixed it the following year by adding one tag to units in that same situation. I bet there is a similar approach/solution with the cougar draw.
 
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Ticks N Tines said:
They really need to do something to compensate those point holders.
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For what? You got more chances to draw, the year you put in. You got what you paid for.

If you bought points, besides being silly, you bought future chances at more chances. You didn't buy any kind of guarantee of anything.
 
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Just FY-F'N-I UtYote!

I'm Still Waiting On My First Check!

I've Waited A Damn Long Time!

And It's Gonna Be A Big One!



UtyoteKiller said:
@Founder, have you ever considered leaving bobcatbess anything in your will? Nothing he says on here is relevant anymore, just more drivel adding to his post count and hits adding revenue to your page.
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Is the cougar situation a missed opportunity for more revenue? Why not allow hunters who apply for any big game tag (including OTC) an option to pay an additional fee to possibly use their big game tag on a cat if the circumstance arises in the field during their big game hunt? If this fee is paid and the option is chosen, simply have the tag printed with a special code.
Instead of just leaving the cats unprotected. I’d think that having this option would be a win/win for big game animals while fulfilling the goal to take more cats off the landscape
 
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