JFWRC $$$$$

[ELKMAN]

I read some of Jim's threads again, and this is the themm:

For all you guides out there that like to make a few extra bucks in the fall, you need to teach your friends how to apply or your going to loose the work and have less money to spend on hunting toys and worse yet, have less time in the woods

All about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ imagine that!

 

[JFWRC]

Marc-

Never said it wasn't. Lots of folks will loose because a few have choosen not to learn to apply or won't apply for other areas. OK, I will respect that and in fact that makes it better for the folks that know how to apply.

I have read many posts that indicate the northern units, even 52 are crappy units. I know several guys that are very glad for that news as they know something absolutely different.

Like I said in other posts, its not a good idea to apply for 16A, 15, and 16d and think you have a snow balls chance to win. What's worse is then they say they can't draw a tag.

Marc, as you know, looking at 9 alone, your odds of draw aren't going to be even 2% better on the MB hunts and the 2 cow hunts are 86.5 and 90.5 resident right now.

For me, and yes its about dollars to our business, the guides, and the state in terms of real dollars lost. I cannot see why its worth throwing an industry under the bus to gain so little. If that's what the residents want then so be it. However, economics must be part of the equation. The gross receipts to the state is huge, the fees to dept are huge, and yes there are guides out there that will loose dollars out of their pockets.


Marc-personally, I will be fine but thanks for your concern.

I knew it was you all the time Jolly Green......

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

Straight from the NMDGF Strategic Plan:

"Mission Statement
To provide and maintain an adequate supply of wildlife and fish within the state of New
Mexico by utilizing a flexible management system that provides for their protection,
propagation, regulation, conservation, and for their use as public recreation and food supply."

I don't see where it says anything about supporting the guiding industry or subsidizing rancher?s losses.

Should we ask them to rewrite it to read as follows?

"Mission Statement
To provide and maintain an adequate supply of wildlife and fish within the state of New
Mexico by utilizing a management system that provides for the maximum allocation of wildlife and fish to paying clients of guides, outfitters, and landowners."

On a related but different issue it drives me crazy every time I hear a landowner complain about what the elk and deer are doing to their fences or crops. That's like someone moving to Phoenix AZ and complaining about the heat. It is just one of the things you have to deal with if you want to live and work out in the forest. Landowners own the LAND not the wildlife. I don't like they are given tags. If they want to make money via hunting on their land they should do it via trespass fees not the tags.

So everyone ?knows? who I am let me tell you right now since everyone else is doing it. I am an under educated, ignorant SOB that thinks he knows everything about every subject. No point in arguing with me since I already know it all.

One final note, you should see what the squirrels in my back yard are doing to my tomato plants! I am going to the next commission meeting and ask for an elk tag in unit 16D to compensate me for my losses.

 

[MrKrabs]

You can't achieve this:

"Mission Statement
To provide and maintain an adequate supply of wildlife and fish within the state of New
Mexico by utilizing a flexible management system that provides for their protection,
propagation, regulation, conservation, and for their use as public recreation and food supply."

without this:

"$$$$$$$$"

Yes there are ways the game department could be more efficient and save money, but the end result is it takes a lot of money to manage and protect wildlife no matter how efficient they are. Based on what I've read there do need to be some adjustments to the landowner tag system. If you're a rancher you deserve some way to recoup some of the money you spend feeding and watering the wildlife as well as repairing damage. Every mouth full of grass an elk eats is a mouth full a cow can't eat. On the other hand if you aren't ranching the wildlife isn't costing you anything to be there so why should you be given tags to sell? Those tags should go back into the resident pool although that still won't change the draw odds much.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[JACOB2006]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-10 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-10 AT 09:25?AM (MST)

So your saying it's all about your pocket book and to hell with nm res?Oh ya and the odds in 52 are not much better than the gila!At least use a unit that is easy to draw like 43 even though there's very very few elk in it.

 

[JFWRC]

+1 Jacob 2006. You've got me all figured out. By the way what do you do for a living??

 

[JACOB2006]

I have a real job that the gov does not force people to spend their money with.

 

[JFWRC]

Guess I walked into that one Jacob2006. +2

 

[Bullbreath]

JFWRC, I do not know you, but I know outfitters like Rockn. I know personally that he is a quality outfitter and maybe you are too. Where we may have a difference of opinion is what we believe is a 12% welfare entitlement for outfitters. If Arizona can survive on 10%, so can we. Alot of corrupt greed-power from LOs and "some" outfitters stronghanded G and F and blindsided the residents some years back. We are a force that is wanting to take back what is imbalanced from years back.

 

[JACOB2006]

I'm done with this me and you will never see eye to eye on this one.The way it is now we're both on the fence looking two diferent ways.

 

[LCHC]

Here it is boys in a nutshell!!!
The whole truth and nothing but the truth about hunting in New Mexico.

If you are unlucky in the current draw system you will be unlucky in the new system. It is 100% luck to draw a tag in the great state of New Mexico. Luck is luck and if you are just plain unlucky nothing is going to change.

This is it in a nutshell. Sorry if you are the unlucky one?

 

[JFWRC]

Bullbreath-I know James and he knows me. You are welcome to get a character reference from him on me any day.

Jacob2006-your right, we won't see eye to eye. When the legislature and the parties to be came up with this system in the mid 1990's it was done with eyes wide open. Folks built their businesses upon the legislation passed. I know you don't like what outfitters do and yes absolutely there are some bad eggs out there that give the industry a bad rap. We, JFWRC,do our best to serve our clients the best we can within the statute and rules passed. I hope you can understand that if your business was being attacked for any reason you'd do what you can to fend off the attacker. If we don't prevail, we will adapt and go on. However, not sure, but I think you might do the same thing if you were in my shoes.

We can certainly be done with this and I certainly wish you the best in your hunting future. Jim

 

[tooele]

So if I understand this right, a few guys think that the way arizona does it is right? So do you guys think that the way colorado, nevada, and Utah does it is wrong? They provide ample land owner permits, give reasonable number of tags, and have pretty good big game populations. Landowners win, non-residents win, residents win, outfitters win, hunters in general win, wildlife organizations win. It seems to me that you get a few guys start whining about we'll have more tags if we take a few from the outfitters, landowners, and non-residents. B.S. statistically, you will have nearly the same stinking odds, but now you have sunk the outfitters, reduced the pool of money the fish and game has to work with, alienated the landowners, and hurt wildlife in general. I live in Arizona, believe me we don't have good drawing odds, in fact our odds suck as residents, all the 10% does is keeps my buddies from out of state from ever hunting with me. I wish that Arizona provided some sort of outfitter pool, landowner tag or something, it would certainly benefit the state, we are way behind the times, in fact we still have to apply with a paper application, because the fish and game cant put their crap together. By the way JFWRC appears to be a pretty stand up guy, from my dealings with him, he would bend over backwards to try to get you in a unit, and he is not looking to nickle and dime people, just trying to enhance hunters experiences in general. Any time I have asked he has been more than helpful and hasn't asked for a penny, Maybe you guys could learn a thing or two from him, you definitely ought to take a statistics on drawing odds, if you really think the odds will improve much. MY $.02.

 

[ELKMAN]

Oh Jimbo,

You do not give a rat's A about public hunters!

FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You bought that little hunting cabin there in,,,, in UNIT 9 for a reason!

What is done is done, but do not try to spin this crap!

You are such a snake!

 

[MrKrabs]

Color me surprised Elkman doesn't like somebody

What's wrong with someone buying a hunting cabin if they have the money?

 

[upmuley]

>Oh Jimbo,
>
>You do not give a rat's
>A about public hunters!
>
>FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>You bought that little hunting cabin
>there in,,,, in UNIT 9
>for a reason!
>
>What is done is done, but
>do not try to spin
>this crap!
>
>You are such a snake!

I have sat on the sidelines watching this soap opera for some period of time and have seen enough. People can disagree on points of view in a mature manner like adults. I have never seen such juvenile vitriol in a public forum. Grow up for crying out loud. I know this is a hot button issue but come on.

I have know Jim personally for several years and if you think he NEEDS the money from his outfitting side job or that this is financially a big deal to him you are greatly mistaken. Jim has a great job and is successful with OR without his outfitting interests. I do believe he is very passionate about what he does and some of that passion has come out here on these boards.

I can further say that I have done 2 hunts with Jim in the past and have not dealt with a more honest, upfront outfitter PERIOD. He has never buffaloed me or anyone I've referred to him and has under promised and over delivered. Professionally, I've dealt in business contracts most of my adult life and can say that the number of people I can take at their word without hesitation are few. Jim is one of them.

I know this is a hot button issue and I can certainly empathize with the resident hunters but let's get rid of unwarranted mudslinging.

Jason Thoune

If anybody has questions about Jim or his outfit send me a PM.

 

[Ropinfool]

so he's a stand up guy......great.

the sysem is still unfair and need to be fixed. unfortunately some people like him are going to have to loose a little to fix it. the residents of nm will gain though.

 

[upmuley]

>so he's a stand up guy......great.
>
>
>the sysem is still unfair and
>need to be fixed.
>unfortunately some people like him
>are going to have to
>loose a little to fix
>it. the residents of
>nm will gain though.

As I said in my post, there are valid viewpoints on both sides, let's just not stoop to such levels and bash somebody unfairly. New Mexico is a fantastic state and it is a shame everybody couldn't draw a tag every year. It beats hunting here in Michigan where EVERYBODY gets a tag EVERY YEAR and the size of our whitetails harvested shows it.

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

JFWRC if you are as good as a few others here have made you out to be (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) I think you will be just fine with your business regardless of any changes to the current system. There will always be a demand for good outfitters. The top end outfitters (which you seem to be one of) should have nothing to fear because they will always have the demand for their services regardless of any changes. Look at Doyle Moss in UT. If Utah was to say only 50 non-residents could hunt Utah for elk a year I could almost guarantee you that he would still be booked solid every year and still demanding top end pricing.

 

[nmelktrout]

+1 RabidRattlesnake1. VERY well spoken. Hard work does and will continue to pay off for good outfitters regardless of a decrease in available tags. No matter how this works out, someone will "lose" and be unhappy. Ultimately, the families who work hard and provide quality guided hunts will continue to book clients and make their money just like the outfitters operating in states with 10% and less allocation quotas do. New Mexico has and continues to take a very equitable position with regard to providing opportunity to non-resident hunters; even at the expense of the average non-land-owning hunter who relies on the draw system for his/her opportunity to hunt. However (and has been noted in several previous posts), this equity is not returned by other states when we New Mexicans apply for their hunts. Yet, those states' outfitters (a broad generalization here and obviously excluding outfitters who have been shut down by wolves) continue to make their money by providing quality hunts. I see no reason why the same will not hold true here. We can argue 'til we are hoarse and deaf on the subject regarding exactly whose and what bottom lines will be hurt, but I've not seen anyone put forth any evidence or information that has convinced me of what is "right" or "wrong" for New Mexico.

I appreciate reading many of the arguments made on this topic as they reflect on one common thread: A deep passion for hunting.
-Cody