JOE AVERAGE!

TheKnack · Dec 10, 2003

We would all like to think we are better hunters then the next guy.
Heck I used to think I was a good hunter till I stumbled onto MM and have met some incredible hunters. Some of these guy's consistently take bucks that we all dream about every year.
What I used to consider a good buck to them is a dink.

After years of taking decent bucks but no wallhangers I decided to try and go after these giants to make hunting more challenging.
I always felt I could improve my hunting abilities each year and work hard to get to be a better hunter.

Time spent looking and learning topo maps and areas I had driven by before have revealed some truely big deer. But knowing about them is only half the battle.

I spend my free time fine tuning my tracking, spotting, hiking, shooting and observation of deer at every chance I get.
I take pictures and film of some of these deer but do not have the right equipment to get great results. Still each time I learn something and improve my odds of meeting up with the buck of my dreams. "It's only a matter of time and effort".

Some may be jealous of the guy's on here that whack the big bucks year in and year out. I on the other hand look at it as a challenge to get myself to that level.
Maybe I will and maybe not, but I sure am having more fun by getting out in the field and learning than by arguing.
Besides, I do not have the pressure and feel like I have to kill a big buck consistantly to live up to anyones preconceived standards of me. Many great hunters are on this site and we all can learn from advice given.
If they say "Hunt smarter" or "Hunt the least likely places" then sit back and think about it before you get mad and frustrated.
As for me I am getting better but still have a long way to go.
Learning and being out there is the fun part.
I guess being Joe Average is not so bad after all.
Best,
Jerry

BUCKSPY · Dec 10, 2003

I'd have to say thats a pretty darn good attitude. I have spent alot of years eating "deer tag stew" in search of mature bucks.
You can't kill big ones if you can't let the nice ones go. Really hard to do until you finally get a big one.

AZbowhntr · Dec 10, 2003

I used to get all worked up over not getting the big bucks but I have realized something. I don't live anywhere near big bucks. I don't have the time to go find them and I have a family that I don't see that much to begin with to go try to find them. I think the only way that I could go out and get a big one without being completely lucky is to pay a guide and let him do the leg work for me. And I'm not much into that. So I'm destined to get 24" bucks.

Longun · Dec 10, 2003

Hey Jerry,

Well said, Well said. I second your post.

huntsonora · Dec 11, 2003

And I third your post, very well said. The day we stop learning is the day we either stop caring, stop hunting or the day we die. For me I hope it is the day I die.

Drummond

NMRaptor · Dec 11, 2003

I agree with you Jerry. One thing I am realizing as I get wiser about hunting is that the great hunters...the ones that consistently bag big bucks put in some tremendous effort. They scout and scout then scout some more. They put on many miles on their hunting rigs and many hours behind the binocs. It seems the best hunters I know, do this year round. They sacrifice alot of time and money but don't mind at all because it is a way of life.
-Raptor

Cooter · Dec 11, 2003

Jerry, you hit the nail on the head. I second your sentiments exactly. This last season was an entirely different animal for me and you know why. Hopefully next year, we can get back on track and chase after the ones that get our blood pumping!

Coot

DeerKing · Dec 11, 2003

Nice words Jerry! I know you well enough to know you have the desire and skill to start getting into them big ol bucks consistently. Just a matter of time my friend.

Founder · Dec 12, 2003

Keep that attitude Jerry!

One thing I learned this year after spending more than 30 days big buck hunting in 4 different states, is that a guy (me) can actually get sick of it. In hindsight, I actually had a good year as far as seeing game. I saw 2 very big bucks while hunting this year and did kill an OK buck. However, I used up this years luck last year, and I was burned out before the final hunt ever began.

Going day after day without seeing a buck that even excites you, is really tough and not much fun. I often wish I could go back to the way it was when I was a kid and be excited just to see a 3 or small 4-pointer. Unfortunely, it's human nature to continually pursue bigger and better things---I guess. Plus, I'm quite competitive and hooked on the challenge of pursuing better-than-average mule deer.
I honestly can't say for sure that I hunt for the fun of it anymore. I think instead, it may be the challenge that keeps me going back every year.
Don't get me wrong, I do have fun on most trips, but sometimes dragging my butt out of bed a 3:30am everyday, then walking for a couple hours before light and/or enduring bitter cold, wet weather, really wears on me.

I'm looking forward to the day that my son and daughter are old enough to hunt. Maybe then it will again be about just enjoying the hunt, and enjoying the outdoors, rather than the "work" that it is now.

I meet guys every year who talk about all the big bucks they see, and they seem so excited about the hunt. Of course their idea of a big deer and my idea are often quite different. However, they are really enjoying the hunt. They're having a lot of fun! I envvy those guys, they're enjoying the hunt as it should be enjoyed.

Keep it fun.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

BCBOY · Dec 12, 2003

Jerry,
Great post man!
After being bit by the monster muley bug over 11 years ago when I absolutely lucked (right place at the right time) into my biggest buck (at least I did work for it, it was a 7 hr pack out), I've learned that you've got to be patient and that hunting the big boys is a lot of work both physically and mentally. I've eaten tag soup again and again and again. I do love being out there, but like Brian said, it can really wear on ya. This year absolutely sucked. I never counted how many days I actually hunted but lets put it this way, I haven't worked much more than 2 weeks the entire 3 month season. LOL! With the fires, drought and closures, my highcountry hidey holes were a bust. I had several HUGE bucks located this summer and they were in the thick stuff below timberline this fall. I hunted for weeks without even seeing an ass going away from me. Talk about a Headgame. But, because I know my areas intimately, I knew it was just a matter of time, which I had lots of this year. In November, I started hitting the lower elevation doe holes that I knew these bucks had to show up in. 3 weeks of hunting everyday and not much more than a handful of deer seen in that time. It sucked. But, I had several big sets of tracks. And I'm talking Huge sets. So I stuck with it. Finally the rut turned on and I saw 3 monsters in 3 days. Missed a damn 200 incher at 40 yards because of heavy brush and then shot my buck the next day in the same hole. So it boiled down to working my ass off all season to have 3 AWESOME Days of hunting.

OSOK · Dec 12, 2003

Not sure I can say it any better, than it already has. Big bucks, are simply a matter of desire, determination and paying your do's to make it happen fore me. And, like Brian said. Alot of it is luck... A guy can have all the above atributes that he wants. But w/o a bit of luck, you're pretty much screwed. I'm not to the point, where I can say that it really wears on me at any given time. I guess by the end of my 9 day hunt, this september. I was getting pretty upset that the buck I knew was around, close, somewhere, wasn't showing his face. Finally, something inside of me, just said. Hey, you've spent 10 times the amount of time looking fore him as you figured you would. Quit looking, and end it... So I did. Obviously, luck wasn't willing to show it's face.

Brian, really had a good post. It explains the course of a big buck hunters thoughts, really well. When you don't have the big one. All you want is the big one. But, even the not so big one's still look pretty darn big!!!LOL. Not a good way of explaining. I guess to me, I look at even the smaller bucks, as one of gods most beautiful creations, and I can still remember, that fever I got, when that first 2x stood there, fore me to wing an arrow at. That fever has only hit me one other time, during my career. And it wasn't when I was on my biggest buck... Every buck is a trophy, if the person who shoots it regards it that way in there own eyes...

Very good post Jerry!

You're day will come soon.

kingfish · Dec 12, 2003

Gentlemen,
Hunting has got to be about more then killing the big buck every year...If you were killing monster bucks every year it would soon become a non-challange...I hunt hard for a week every year in the rugged mountains of Idaho and usually by the fourth day I am exausted...That's when the mental part of mule deer hunting begins to work on me... I wake up early in a freezing tent and I am sore and stiff and tired...Sometimes I just hate getting up but I have yet to kill a good buck from my fart sack...I wonder, "What the hell am I doing". I soon forget how tired I am when I'm sneeking up that canyon with deer feeding 800 yards up ahead of me and I need to get within 300 yards for a confident shot if one presents itself.. I would love to have the opportunity to kill a big buck every year and most years I get a good look at a shooter but if I don't it's become very important for me now to realize how fortunate I am just to be able to expirience the hunt....I am definetly a member of the Joe Average club and proud of it....

dakotakid · Dec 12, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-03 AT 01:22PM (MST)[p]Great post Jerry, I too am just a slightly less than Average Joe , I have lucked into a couple of decent bucks but still have SO much to learn about this game. Disappointment is one thing that a guy has to learn to deal with because you just arent going to go out and kick up 180-200 inch bucks in every canyon. I had an extreemly disappointing season this year, mostly because I went into it with very high hopes of getting a huge buck but it just didnt pan out for me. Towards the end of the season it was playing on me very hard every time I went out. I was hoping beyond hope that Mr Big would just magically appear in my sights. Many miles of shoe leather and sweat were put in this year for yet just another slightly less than average buck for a slightly less than Average Joe. Perserverence and plain ole stubborness keeps me at this game.

Our day will come.

Mike

on edit: keep in mind Jerry how many good bucks you see posted here in the Forums and the picture pages each year, how many of those guys do you see posting pictures consistantly year in and year out? Very few, I think there is only a small handfull of guys here that can put up good bucks every year. You know who they are, I know who they are and they know who they are, listen to them and pick up tips and hints along the way from them and you too will be posting pics of bucks that make you drool.

cowboye · Dec 12, 2003

Well, It is hard to follow in the footsteps of the above posts & so many knowledgable people here, they ALL drive home the point.....I think so many people here are so right on the money. I can Honestly feel Brain's pain! Man I have been there sooo many times. IT can sometimes get to the point of where you are ready for the season to be over! Day in Day out, up at 3-4 in the morning, walking anywhere from 2-8 miles a day and sometimes not coming off a mountain till midnight with a flashlight can wear anyone out very fast! Then the Mental part of the game kicks in(espically if you not see what you what to see) and most(including myself) get discouraged, second guessing our moves, spots, pace, locations as well as situations. Thinking of so many what if's. The thing that HAS always keep me going is 2-fold: 1st.... being that I have a very bad habit of always wanting to know what is just around, on the other side, or over the top of the view in front of me. What sometimes becomes the toughest is sitting it out in a particular area spotting, while hearing gun shots over the rim or drainage and think of the what if's. 2nd... I have been around the block enough times to KNOW it can all Turn on a dime and in a matter of seconds. THis year was a prime example, most had done left out, and it was down to the last 6 hr of the hunt with the deer, the bull was killed pushing the last 15 minutes and I had accepted the fact of going home with another empty tag to put up there with all the others.

Jerry I know from you and several others on here that I have talked to, you definitely have the right attitude and mental focus it takes, as well as you do my friend. EVERYONE is and WAS a Joe Average at some point or another, no matter how huge or much of a hunting icon they may become. It is a consist revisiting of the past and present that makes everyone grow in their own realm of Hunting. I only wish I could find a way to turn those "Buck Tags" into stew or any other kind of food for that matter Buckspy. I could have feed myself REALLY well over the last 15 years or so of out-of-state hunting in the different states with the price tags. But it is just like Buckspy said, once you have ever tagged a Big Buck, it becomes hard to backtrack. I think it is human nature as already pointed out to do bigger and better, wondering who can outsmart who?.

Every year, My focus seems to channel another direction more and more. Knowing that I have only a FEW more memoriable hunts left with my father even seems to fuel the fire that much more. And that has become to make me a very HAPPY and Successful hunter,even though we may not finding the critter we know is in there somewhere. I still go home with a trophy every year, regardless of whether it is a magificent creature the good lord above blessed me with or the pictures that I have in his playground and my father within them!!!

Awesome Post and Replies!!!!!!Dwayne

Founder · Dec 13, 2003

Hey Kingfish,

You are right, hunting should be about more than just killing a big buck. And it is, I think even the guys who thrive on hunting the biggest of deer, still enjoy most aspects of the hunt that don't associate directly to killing the big one. I actually enjoy most of the long hikes, the scenery, the quiet peaceful time away, etc. If I didn't, I could easily give up hunting altogether.

My point is that hunting extra special deer is tough. When I was growing up, my dad used to take our entire family hunting. We would go along with several of his friends and all their kids. The dad's woke up an hour before light and hunted within 15-20 minutes of camp. We built campfires at night. A few of the guys, if not all of them, got deer every year. It was lots of fun!

Nowadays, the hunting we do for big deer is too tough to take the family along. We're either packed in, or it's miserably cold, or we're out all day---not fun for the wife and kids.
Also, anymore, you can't afford to hunt with too many other people, especially if they are also hunting big deer. There just aren't enough big deer in one area for everyone. And, anymore, we're hunting an hour or two from camp, hunt all day, and get back too late at night to sit around and enjoy a campfire. Plus, we don't kill deer on every hunt, or every year for that matter.

It's just different. It my opinion, the way my dad used to hunt was more fun, but the hunting we do today, is more rewarding.

It's like you said,
"I wake up early in a freezing tent and I am sore and stiff and tired...Sometimes I just hate getting up but I have yet to kill a good buck from my fart sack...I wonder, "What the hell am I doing"."
IMO, at that point, it would be MORE FUN TO STAY IN BED. But, a guy who thinks about deer hunting year-round, who dreams of monster bucks day in and day out, can't do it. He has to pull himself from the warm bag and go hunting. It's usually that first 5 mminutes, as I dress in the bitter cold, that I wonder, "Is this fun?"
But like you also said, later that morning, when you start seeing deer, the rewarding feeling you have makes it worth it.
And for me, when I do get the big one, the prior year or two, or three, of hard work, makes it worth it.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

kingfish · Dec 13, 2003

EXACTLY!!!!.

I had the same expirience with my dad when I was young..He always took us hunting and I love him to this day for it but it stirred something deep inside me to want to hunt the big elusive bucks... I haven't been very successfull killing huge bucks but I have been fortunate to see a few jaw droppers and that keeps a fella going for a lifetime... I really admire the knowledge and humility of you and many other dedicated hunters on this site. It's really what keeps me coming back....There aren't to many things in life more rewarding them working your buttox off and scoring on a big buck...Especially when you have done it on your own.....I hope I can do this until I'm 80.......

Keith.

BCBOY · Dec 13, 2003

Brian,
I know exactly what you are talking about. It is still "fun" but not in the same way as it was when we first started out. Is it fun to be sitting on top of the world as the sun comes up over all Creation? You bet! But was it fun climbing that mountain for 2 hours in the pitch black? Not Really. Is it fun when you catch movement on a far slope and swing the spotter on it and see a "monster"? There ain't much better feeling. But, when you sat there for 3 hours in the knife cutting wind where you have to hide in a small depression behind you and do jumping jacks every 15 minutes just to get the feeling back in you fingers and toes, it sucks. You find yourself saying, "Am I Crazy or what?" It ain't that fun to be post-holing it in waist deep snow, your calves burning, and being soaked to the core. But when you finally cut that fresh HAWG track, you wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I can say with all the years of eating tag soup after hunting 3 months straight, and I'm physically and mentally beat, I am happy when the season is finally over. But you can bet the moment legal shooting light is gone on that last day, I am already planning for the next season.

TheKnack · Dec 13, 2003

Wow, those are some exellent replies....Plus from some of the monster buck whackers on this site.
You guy's and your humbleness about your talents is what keeps me coming back to this site time after time.
It is also an inspiration and drive for me to get to that level personally.
Yes, I know the hunt is not all about the kill or else I would have whacked a 150" buck the second day of the hunt.
I was just losing some of the challenge in the hunt getting average deer so now I have to raise my hunting skills to go after the biguns.
Learning self control on not shooting the nice ones I finally conquered this year. Still had a good time even though the bucks I scouted had left the area and were on private property.
You can't win them all or else to me hunting would be just plain shooting.
Thanks for your replies.
Best,
Jerry

polarbear · Dec 14, 2003

I just got back from a hunt at my favorite spot. I have taken 4 P&Y whities in the past 5 years out of it. This year I crapped out! I saw nice bucks every day and I P&Y buck but couldnt get close enough to stick an arrow in any of them. The best part of the whole trip was watching a nice little 3x3 (not counting eye guards) eat the moss off of the branches directly under my treestand while I was in it. I watched him for 10 minutes and could have taken him easily but decided to let him go. I still have until the end of the month to get a blacktail. If I dont, it will be the first time in 18 years that I have been skunked. Maybe it I am mellowing out in my old age (hhaahaaaa) but for the first time in my hunting life, I am ok with striking out. I guess that I would rather crap out than shoot a tiny buck just for the sake of keeping a streak alive. It is neat to be able to hold off and watch the same buck/bucks grow up to maturity. Last year I stuck a 145+ whitie that I have been watching and passing up on for 4 years.
I think that the best thing that a hunter can do for him/herself is to set a goal of what caliber of animal you want and stick to it whether you are successful or not. Forget about what all the other yayhoos are shooting and hunt to satisfy yourself and not your buddies, the guys down at the gun shop or anyone else.
Ok enough rambling, I've got lost sleep to make up for.
Eric

Life long "vagitarian"

HunterHarry · Dec 14, 2003

All you guys are sooooo right on the money!
I have been a Joe Average all my life! I realized that I had to spend the money if I wanted to make my dreams a reality.I also had to be in shape physically and mentally to succeed.
There have been many times while in persuit of trophy animals when I questioned whether I was doing the right thing!
I have felt guilt,lonliness,fatigue,and defeat,but when I get home,hug my family,unload my gear,and get a home cooked meal, the ole fire start burnin' again!
I have tried to include my family on a lot of deer hunts and that keeps it special for me, regardless of what size of bucks are taken.
I don't stack up to a lot of guys here on trophy Muleys,but I do have a lot of "Trophy Memories" of deer hunting with my wife and kids!
What great insight you guys have!
Great post Jerry! and the rest of you guys Too!

nk · Dec 16, 2003

thanks guys, don't know that i couldnt ever get excited about a 24-26 inch wide 4x4. although seeing the bigger bucks is more exciting, i think continually hunting 30+ inch bucks day after day might take some of the fun out of the hunt. i also am not in an area that holds a large amount of deer, therefor i am happy just to be out and be hunting!
nk