Knee Surgery

[archeryelk]

I messed my knee up playing basketball 25 years ago and it has bothered me off and on since. I run a bunch and train year round which has taken its toll.

During the winter I was training for a marathon and starting having knee pain. I backed off and it wouldn't go away. Finally after a couple of shots we did an MRI and went to the DR today. I have a pretty good meniscus tear and thinning of the hyaline cartilage....bone on bone maybe.

Ok, I have draw a Wyoming moose tag and have a BC trip planned for Moose and Goat.

I can have surgery in 2 weeks and if he does not find the cartilage to be too bad fixing the tear is not that big of deal.

My wife and I have been talking about it this afternoon and I feel like I can back off running and spend more time on the bike (which I do a TON of without pain) and backpacking and make it through the hunt and be in great shape. The only problem with this decision is I could get into August or later and start having REALLY bad knee problems. Then I would be down to eating pain killers or something to force myself through the hunt.

Bottom line I think I will wait but wanted to see what others would do.

I have had similar decisions in the past and have always made it fine.

Archer

 

[Salmon]

Hello, I had a similiar problem a few years back and talked with my doctor about hunting. He assured me I would be fine by the time huntibg season can around. My surgery was in July. I went ahead and had it done telling him if I had problems he would be the FIRST one I would see when I came back. The hunt was in Idaho in steep country and we did get elk and I did pack quarters out downhill with no problem. Everyone is different but for me it worked out great.......Tom

 

[bigbrink]

I am 19 years old and have already had 2 knee surgeries. One od these surgeries was damaged cartilage, they repaired the rough up cartilage and did a great job. The thing is though it has been 6 months and its not the same. Cartliage is some serious business. Hope things go great for ya.

 

[Blank]

Fifty percent of any hard hunting situation is sheer determination. "If you're gonna be stupid, ya gotta be tough" is my favorite saying. The past few years, I seem to have been a professional patient of my Doc's. Dislocated ankle (180 degrees), broken leg in 3 places, 5 knee surgeries (3 cartilage repairs), and a dislocated hip with 270 degree tears of muscles - all on the same leg. He tells me to take really good care of the good one!!!!!!!! I won't own an ATV and still backpack for moose and elk, but I do keep loads under a hundred pounds if I can. Running is out, but long distance walking and biking is still fine.

Sounds like you are in excellent shape, and should heal well and rapidly. I think that is the best option. You can't hunt well on pain meds, and it clouds your judgement and feeling enough that you could be doing real damage in there without knowing it. Downhill packing of a load could rip up the cartilage you have left. I just about live on ibuprofen all hunting season, and that is just fine. I would listen to your Doc, and probably go for the repair and proper therapy, and you'd be in fine shape by August 1st. The moose and goat in early Sept. and the Wyoming moose later? I think your timing would be fine if you get in soon.

 

[jvgunner]

I snapped my acl in 1990 and did not have surgery due to medical insurance issues. hunted/snow ski black diamond runs/pretty much everything until oct 98 when i had to come down the moutian in wyoming in a blizzard in a deep ravine in the creek to get back to camp alive!! that pretty much blew my knee out the rest of the way had acl replacement/cartlidge repair in early 99 and still hunted in oct 99 in wyomings steeps/packing out a 250lb mule deer with the help of my friend and my knee brace. the longer you wait the more damage you will sustain. get it done now.

 

[bogey]

I have had both ACL's done and cartlidge fixed. Don't wait get it done, its not that bad. They will never be the same, but its not good now either. You should after a cartlidge fix be near 100% in a month, 2 max. The chnages in how they do the surgery today compared to years back is a night and day differance. The second ACL didn't seem that much differant then the first cartlidge fix 10 years prior. The first ACL kind of sucked. It won't be that bad, just get it fixed if the Doc thinks its best.

 

[lostinOregon]

Have the same problem in my knees, sports damage from a few years ago (won't mention how many though). I had a cartlidge tear in my right knee and has orthroscopic surgery and it was repaired and I was good to go in 3 months. They had me walking on it the same day as surgery. With your condition without any problems you should have plenty of time take care of it.

Good luck, healing from foot surgery as we speak.

Rich

 

[archeryelk]

Did 70 miles today on my mountain bike with 25+ of pretty hard climbing. Didn't bother me at all.

I have to travel for business starting tomorrow and will not be back in the country until next Sunday. I plan to do very little exercise other than some walking and swimming.

I will make the final surgery decision when I get back. I feel confident I will be ok through hunting season without it but I am afraid it will take longer to heal than expected if I go ahead with it now. Can't afford to be sitting on the couch a week before this hunt.

Thanks for your help. I will keep you posted.

Archer

 

[Eastwood]

I have the exact same decision to make. However, my meniscus is clearly blown out. Did it playing ball last month. Had the center taken out 10 years ago. This time the rim broke. No doubt about it. I am planning to have surgery in about a month. That way I should be healed up by October 1st deer bow season around here. If I draw a September western tag it will get dicey.

Severed the ACL in my left knee 9 years ago. Never operated on, rehabbed it just fine. No problems since.

Cartiledge is what sucks. At least my decision is a no brainer. Your's seems borderline.

 

[archeryelk]

My gut says WAIT. I plan to give it a litte TLC. Right now I can go all out no problems. I COULD run but have quit for now.

I am going to wait and see how I feel after my trip.

Archer

 

[Tomichi]

Arcery wait! If you can bike 70 tough it out. The MRI Story "only three weeks if all we do is Debree the Meniscus"
You heard that right? Well when they get in there they will have to "Dart" the Meniscus to the joint capsil. Then you are at three MONTHS! May of 05 to Aug of 05 for me. And I had a tough time rehabing. It was OCT before I felt "Strong" on a side hill.

 

[HC]

Listen to your Dr. and weigh the pros and cons as you seem to be doing. I kind of agree with "Tomichi" in that if you are able to tough it out on a 70 mile bike ride now, that by giving your knees some TLC might be enough to get through the season. But if you opt for surgery, don't wait, get it done so that you have time for healing and rehab.

I blew my knee out in an accident 22 years ago. I dislocated my left knee, Ripped the Medial Caladaral Ligiment off of the upper and lower leg, and tore my ACL. My Orthopedic Surgeon screwed the ligiment back to the leg where it was separated. Luckily the ligiment was still in tact. I was in a cast for 8 weeks. Following the recovery, I had several months of Rehab (Physical Therapy) When the time comes, my advise on the therapy is to do everything they ask you to do. Go all out. Don't skimp. I saw some of the toughest looking guys whining about everything during the therapy sessions. I decided that during my sessions I was going to work through the pain. And I think it has paid off all these years later.

In my case, I had no choice in the matter. My medical attention was immediate. I had surgery in July of 1984, I was married in August on crutches, and I killed my biggest Mule Deer buck to date in late October, but I was severely hobbled. I was nowhere near ready for any kind of a grueling hunt. In fact, I was a year away from being back to 90%.

They have come a long way with innovations in surgical techniques and Physical therapy to speed up recovery time. Just make sure you are ready to live with whichever decision you make.

HC

 

[neverbeenonanATV]

I am 39 years old and have done a lot of walking in my day. Three years ago my knee starting hurting all the time and even gave way a couple of times. I hate needles worse than I hate ATV's. Finally after the pain got so bad I couldn't sleep at night I went to see the doctor and he did arthroscopic surgery on my left knee consisting of two small holes. I hobbled around for a week and went back for a checkup and he took two turkey basters full of fluid off the knee. That fluid coming off was painfull, but I walked out of there like a new man. After that the knee was like brand new and I have hiked and hunted like a kid again. However in the last month a slight pain is coming back. I would go ahead and get it done I think you have plenty of time till fall to recover, but I have heard and it looks like the surgery doesn't last long. I think bad knees are something that never goes away. Good luck.

 

[tufferthandug]

About 4 years ago, I messed up my knee and the doctor found that a "Miniscus" (sp.?) trimming was in order. I was 24 at the time and told him to go for it. Well the surgery was in May and by the time September had rolled around I was pretty much back in business hunting. Except once in a while my knee would buckle out of no-where. When it did buckle there would be no pain though.

I hunted Moose all that fall up here in BC without too much trouble. I would recommend waiting until winter though, to be on the safe side. Some doctors are better than others.

 

[freedivr2]

LAST EDITED ON May-28-06 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]Archery, I think you've already made up your mind.

A couple of years ago, when I was a youngster (52), an MRI showed that I had a torn cartlidge in my right knee that was not good.

I didn't want to do further permanent damage to it by hiking hard and adding weight (deer on a packframe) so I decided to have surgery. The surgery was done July 21, so I had 8 weeks to heal, recover from muscle atrophy, and get my lungs back in shape for the early season Muzzleloader deer hunt in Colorado. My doctor said that was NOT enough time for me to recover and he advised against it all, particularly carrying a 1/2 deer on my back.

I had no option....the torn part of the cartlidge was buckled over and jammed in a joint....bearing weight on it and slipping might have wrecked it twice as badly for life. So I went for it, had the surgery, worked my butt off those 8 weeks in every way I could (and had a little setback from pushing too hard, too). I went to Colorado, shot a buck, and packed 1/2 of him out (my partner carried the other 1/2). Would I do that again? Probably not. My quadraceps were not right, and I hadn't done any real cardio for 2 months prior to the hunt, because my focus was getting mobility back in the knee....atrophy WILL set in fast while you're not using the muscles.

IF you have surgery done, do it RIGHT NOW! I would say even if you're in the best of shape and young, do NOT do it after July 1st if you're planning on hunting early September.

Lastly, if you do have it done, a walking stick (made out of an old cedar limb) is a great thing for helping you walk downhill. It was my saving grace that year during the hunt, and my mountain bike was the thing that helped my muscles get semi back in shape those last few weeks prior to the hunt.

 

[RACKMASTER]

OK I just had to read it.... I had operations twice both knees
by to world famous orthopedic sturgeons, Dr Arthur Ting and Dr Gerald Goldman!
If you can live with the pain do have the operation until you have 6 mos to recoup period because any thing can happen!
1st op was a scope and 3 mos I was 90%, 2nd time a pattella scrape zipper and the hardest thing ever was the recovery 9 mos til I had no pain, 3rd and fourth were debribements and I was alot younger..... lots of PT which can be a drag!
stay away from the cortazone it will eat any soft tissue you have left!
good luck
jack

 

[predator]

Having had six knee surgeries in my short lifetime, I'd say to weigh things carefully. There is a huge difference in riding a bike 70 miles (bicycling is a closed circuit, good for the knees, I should know it's all I can do now), and hiking the steeps for sheep with a 60-lb pack.

That being said, I did unknowingly go mountain goat hunting with a torn meniscus, ACL and chondyle fracture. And it hurt like MF the whole time, but I did get a goat. The seven months of rehab, then surgery, then 4 more months of rehab were the downside.

The question you might ask your doc is this- Can I hurt it worse, ie cause permanent damage, by not having surgery now and going hunting this fall.

Just be prepared for the answer!

 

[archeryelk]

I am in Europe right now on business. Have not done any running in 4 or 5 days. Did some hard climbing and have been on my feet 14-16hrs every day here. No problems.

Right now I am in as good of shape as I have ever been and I am 43. I plan to wait on surgery until hunting season is over.

Thanks for your input.

Archer

 

[Paul_Crawford]

Get the knee fixed now!! You'll be fine by huntin' season. Been there, done that. PC

 

[AZbowhntr]

I agree with PC. I had the ACL replaced and miniscus repaired in the middle of May a few years ago and hunted archery elk the same fall. The worst case is you miss part of one season. I think it is a small price to pay for the benefits that you will have from a healthy knee.

 

[RACKMASTER]

ANY EVER HAD A PETELLA SCRAPE?(under knee cap,bottom side)! the worst
RM

 

[freedivr2]

No patella scrape, but I DID have surgery on both knees, both times cartilidge removal. I spoke of the more recent one above, but what might be of further interest is what happened to my left knee after surgery;

The surgery went well with one hitch. Infection set in. I had a fever for 3 days and the doctor told me to keep taking tylenol. But the fever never subsided, and the knee was pretty swollen due to the infection. So the doc prescribed some kick arse antibiotics and told me not to move the knee, which is the EXACT wrong thing to do because you don't want to let scarring set in...you want to start flexing and getting range of motion with that knee immediately after surgery (except if infection sets in, then you're SCREWED, as I was). A week later he tried to drain the knee and stuck me 6 times with a needle to do that, and all he could pull out was some stuff that looked like jello. Sent that to a lab and I never did get him to fess up what it was, I'm sure because he was concerned about getting sued or something. What was supposed to be 3 days off work turned into 3 WEEKS off work, and to get my range of motion back, that took 3 trips to a physical therapist per week for 4 weeks, each trip hurt like hell, too. Bad deal.

The guy is a great doctor, I can't blame him. He's well respected and in fact I went to him for my right knee a few years ago and it came out fine.

Point is that there are things that float around sterile hospital rooms. You CAN get an infection if everything is done right. It happens, I know, it happened to me. Not fun. The recovery time was quadruple what it should've been. So if the doc says you can hike with it, carry a load with your knee condition, then you might want to consider doing it after your hunting season, just in case you get in the bad end of the recovery statistics as I did with my left knee.

P.S. The other thing I'll say is that I lived with a bum left knee for about 10 years, it locked up, slipped out of place, and I was constantly straining/spraining the ligaments. I can't recall how many times my knee swelled up during that period of time. Best thing I ever did was get that knee fixed, even considering the complications and pain with that. The knees now work great and I haven't had a knee sprain in either knee since either surgery.

P.P.S. My personal advice; when hiking downhill this year, use a walking stick. The worst injuries and strains happen to feet and knees going downhill. Give yourself a little help at least until you get that knee repaired.

 

[cohntr6]

Left knee acl torn while skiing 10 years ago. I never had it fixed and I have no problems with it.
Right knee tore acl in 1999 playin basketball, never had it fixed, 3 years later jacked the right knee playing ball again, it was time to get it fixed.

In the 2 incidents over a 3 year time period the right knee had sustainded femoral condoyl cartilage tear (the worst!), torn acl, mcl, and pcl. I had it fixed and I have trouble with it now and again especially after long hikes (5+ miles) shedding or hunting. I would get it fixed now. I believe if I had my acl fixed in 1999 I would not have jacked it worse 3 years later. I dont play basketball anymore, my knees are for my kids ( I am only 32) and hunting. personanally I would give up the running. The biggest advice would be to start taking Glucosamine if you are not already and take the GLUCO ACCORDING TO YOUR WEIGHT NOT WHAT IT SAYS ON THE BOTTLE!!!!!!!!!!
i can hike further and harder on the Gluco as i have not taken it for long periods of time and can tell the difference big time.

Good luck and hope you have great hunts (sounds like you do) this fall.
Jeff

 

[Redside]

Hey archeryelk,
Man, if I were you I would go have it fixed and save the pain and further risk of injury. I've torn both my ACL's, and had major cartliage damage on both knee's. Tore my right ACL in 1985 while playing high school football. Then tore my left ACL in 2000 playing city league basketball. The first surgery took me six months before I could walk, and a full year before I could go full bore on it. The second one, I waited about a year saying I don't need the surgery, and it will get better as long as I keep the quads and hams strong. It would constantly lock up on me and hyperextend going down hills, which would hurt like hell and swell up. I finally came to my senses one day fishing when it took me 10 minutes to walk down a small steep hill to go salmon fishing. I had the surgery and was up walking within a week, and that was a full patella tendon ACL reconstruction. Within two months I was jogging. Cartliage surgery is much easier and most of the time up to jogging or brisk walking in a week. Good luck to ya, and hope your hunting trips this fall go well.

 

[feddoc]

archeryelk, it sounds like you have made up your mind already....I would probably do the same thing. Meniscal tears are usually very simple to repair and have a fairly short and uncomplicated rehab time. There is a remote chance that not fixing the tear now could cause more problems later. I've had two on the same knee; one to repair and one to remove. Both were scheduled after elk season. (A guy must have priorities)Both had an uneventful recovery

 

[archeryelk]

Can't do this until next week now and have some additional work that will have to be done that has much longer recovery.

May have to get through it and then have it done,

Archer

 

[Dodger]

I have had 4 surgeries on my left knee. Both times I tore my ACL (got the zipper) and did substantial damage to my medial meniscus. The first time the ACL was replaced and the meniscus was just "trimmed". The 2nd time I torn the ACL and had a bucket-handle tear of the medial meniscus, the cartilage was sewn back to the bone. Needless to say, I drew an archery elk both years and both years I was able to go. I had the first meniscus repaired in December and then the ACL repaired in June, hunted in September. The second one I had the ACL and meniscus repaired at the end of May and then had my knee maniplulated at the end of July. Removed scar tissue, improved range of motion, etc. That was the worst pain of any of the four surgeries. Both of my hunts I was limited, but I was still able to go. Both times I missed too, but it wasn't because of my knee. I was able to take a coues deer that fall (November) in some pretty rugged country and I packed the deer out. It hurt though. I'm just now getting to 100% with my knee and it has been almost 3 years. I'll be turning 32 this summer and my doctor told me that the 2nd surgery (ACL)is always worse than the first. If it is just removing cartilage, my experience was that I had the surgery on Friday and I was walking without crutches by Monday. The 2nd time, however, I was non-weight bearing for 6 weeks and then had a long rehab. I even went to therapy after my hunt. My situation sounds different then yours however, since I couldn't even straighten my leg after I hurt my knee because of the meniscus tear.