ksl on deer

cantkillathing

cantkillathing

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www.ksl.com

Where are the deer? Utah wildlife leaders update deer population status before the hunt

Utah's general-season buck deer hunt with any legal weapon starts on Saturday, but some are wondering where the deer are.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com


How come when they say deer herd is down that its up? An oxymoron, is it hard to say that the deer herd sucks. I have attended so many frustrating meeting with the DWR that I dont go anymore, they are the only people that can say the deer herd is struggling and in same sentence say that its in good condition. Which is it?

Tag cuts will never help unless the cuts are so extreme. I hope that Legislation continues to put pressure on where the heck are the deer numbers that you are throwing out there.
 
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
 
D_Hoyt said:
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
Click to expand...
When I was younger and loved to go shed hunting before it go so popular I would find dead heads all the time from lion kills, when the buck population have dropped you dont nearly find the dead heads like you use to, Lion population didn't go down, they still ate, but seems like they are eating more fawns and does now then when there was a surplus of bucks, no biology or degree on this, just field observation over the years.
 
I think there should be 2 focuses for every group working to help herds- 1 protecting habitat, not just planting bushes, but preventing actual habitat loss. (Likely to be said as hard and or impossible, which may be true unless people make it a priority). And 2 somehow doing more to limit losses on roadways. I think those are 2 factors that can actually be impacted by $$$. We can’t control the weather etc, but we can preserve land and create safer travel avenues.
 
tallelkchaser said:
I think there should be 2 focuses for every group working to help herds- 1 protecting habitat, not just planting bushes, but preventing actual habitat loss. (Likely to be said as hard and or impossible, which may be true unless people make it a priority). And 2 somehow doing more to limit losses on roadways. I think those are 2 factors that can actually be impacted by $$$. We can’t control the weather etc, but we can preserve land and create safer travel avenues.
Click to expand...


Yup.

It's pretty rare you see bigger bucks dead on road. Generally does fawns forkies
 
cantkillathing said:
When I was younger and loved to go shed hunting before it go so popular I would find dead heads all the time from lion kills, when the buck population have dropped you dont nearly find the dead heads like you use to, Lion population didn't go down, they still ate, but seems like they are eating more fawns and does now then when there was a surplus of bucks, no biology or degree on this, just field observation over the years.
Click to expand...
Dead does and fawns don’t have heads? 200,000 guys running around with creedmoors dropping bombs across the canyons at anything with a legal rack will leave lots of “lion kills” around. If it’s purely the lions then you’re gonna find 10 dead does for every dead buck.
 
cantkillathing said:
www.ksl.com

Where are the deer? Utah wildlife leaders update deer population status before the hunt

Utah's general-season buck deer hunt with any legal weapon starts on Saturday, but some are wondering where the deer are.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com


How come when they say deer herd is down that its up? An oxymoron, is it hard to say that the deer herd sucks. I have attended so many frustrating meeting with the DWR that I dont go anymore, they are the only people that can say the deer herd is struggling and in same sentence say that its in good condition. Which is it?

Tag cuts will never help unless the cuts are so extreme. I hope that Legislation continues to put pressure on where the heck are the deer numbers that you are throwing out there.
Click to expand...
Don't hope to much you might get more then you bargin for if you let legislation in on making decisions for the way we hunt wildlife. Just wait tell you see the RAC propossals for november that is being forced down from legislatures.
 
HUNTINFORLIFE said:
Don't hope to much you might get more then you bargin for if you let legislation in on making decisions for the way we hunt wildlife. Just wait tell you see the RAC propossals for november that is being forced down from legislatures.
Click to expand...
Ha……. You’re absolutely right, keep the legislature out of it, that’ll fix it. The bureaucrats have done a fantastic job up until now……. That’s not just apparent, it’s as obvious as the uneaten, over grown habitat and the hundreds of thousands of new homes and millions people living on the winter range between Santiquin and Cedar City and between Heber City and Vernal.
 
yotebuster17 said:
Dead does and fawns don’t have heads? 200,000 guys running around with creedmoors dropping bombs across the canyons at anything with a legal rack will leave lots of “lion kills” around. If it’s purely the lions then you’re gonna find 10 dead does for every dead buck.
Click to expand...

Not my experience . The majority of confirmed lion kills I've come across were good bucks. Big bucks are solitary and easier for a lion to hunt and kill than a herd of does and fawns.
 
2lumpy said:
Ha……. You’re absolutely right, keep the legislature out of it, that’ll fix it. The bureaucrats have done a fantastic job up until now……. That’s not just apparent, it’s as obvious as the uneaten, over grown habitat and the hundreds of thousands of new homes and millions people living on the winter range between Santiquin and Cedar City and between Heber City and Vernal.
Click to expand...


We should definitely cut more tags and lose more voters in our ranks. The bureaucrats will for sure listen to us then
 
cantkillathing said:
www.ksl.com

Where are the deer? Utah wildlife leaders update deer population status before the hunt

Utah's general-season buck deer hunt with any legal weapon starts on Saturday, but some are wondering where the deer are.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com
Tag cuts will never help unless the cuts are so extreme. I hope that Legislation continues to put pressure on where the heck are the deer numbers that you are throwing out there.
Click to expand...

The anti's will have their way eventually and tags will get cut everywhere. Even in good 'ol Youtah. They have more money and are better organized...
 
Let me get one thing clear I don’t want cuts, cutting tags aren’t going to help enough to justify the cuts, unless they are willing to do it all at one time. Cutting here and there each year won’t help. If you’re going to do it make it a one time cut that is so big that it makes everyone mad for one year. With a plan to reinstate all cuts the following year.
 
D_Hoyt said:
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
Click to expand...
D_Hoyt said:
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
Click to expand...
If the food source dries up the Lions will take anything they can get. Rabbits , does, fawns or whatever. If they are smart they can survive longer. But their offspring will have a hard time.
 
D_Hoyt said:
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
Click to expand...
This can actually be incorrect.
 
Ya!

Let's hunt Em Down To Where There's NO DECENT Genetics Left & See What The Offspring Looks Like!

There's Part Of Your PISS POOR Management!
 
elkassassin said:
Next Thing You're gonna Tell Me Is The 71% Cut Has Already Happened!
Click to expand...

Correct. We are already to that point. You get a cookie!

But you never answered if 71% cuts are extreme enough. Tell us the number if that isn’t good enough. How many people get to hunt in your ideal world?
 
They're trying to build up the mule deer herd in the units near me and my unit. They only offer 10 doe tags in muzzleloader season. No rifle or bow doe tags.

Good luck getting one of those 10 doe tags. It seems to have made getting buck tags harder too because all the doe hunters have switched to bucks. I feel like i've won the lottery if I get a buck tag
 
Muley said:
They're trying to build up the mule deer herd in the units near me and my unit. They only offer 10 doe tags in muzzleloader season. No rifle or bow doe tags.

Good luck getting one of those 10 doe tags. It seems to have made getting buck tags harder too because all the doe hunters have switched to bucks. I feel like i've won the lottery if I get a buck tag
Click to expand...
10 does tags is 10 too many. That is the problem. They should never give out doe tags unless Utah (not sure where you are from) has one million deer running around.
 
D_Hoyt said:
I have a master's degree natural resource management and wildlife biology. And, I know two things for certain.

1) If you want to grow the deer herd you put all your chips on protecting the does and fawns.
2) Bucks never have, and never will, give birth to a fawn.

The entire conversation needs to be about does and fawns, not bucks.
Click to expand...
That's how we got to this situation. There are studies that show that having mature bucks doing the breeding at the same time during the first estrus allows for most of the fawns to drop at the same time. As I understand it, the more fawns on the ground at the same time actually leads to better survival vs fawns spread out over a couple of months.
 
I Think cant is talking 60% On Top Of Your 71%!




Vanilla said:
Correct. We are already to that point. You get a cookie!

But you never answered if 71% cuts are extreme enough. Tell us the number if that isn’t good enough. How many people get to hunt in your ideal world?
Click to expand...
 
I personally wish the division would completely cancel all deer hunts at least the next 2 years in Chalk Creek specifically. I'll bet we lost close to 90% of the deer herd last winter. I love hunting Chalk Creek and am in my 12th straight year of the dedicated hunter program but I can tell you there's VERY few deer left. I really hope other herds in Northern Utah, Southern Idaho, and Western Wyoming weren't hit as bad but I wouldn't be surprised if some other areas were.

~Z~
 
elkassassin said:
I Think cant is talking 60% On Top Of Your 71%!
Click to expand...

Of course! And then it will be another 50% on top of that. Then 80% more on top of that. And on and on we go because TAG CUTS DON’T BUILD DEER HERD NUMBERS! Say it out loud with me one more time! Tag cuts will not build Utah deer numbers. It hasn’t worked for the last 40 years, and it won’t work for the next 40 years.

Or we can just keep trying the same old Bessy. I know you’re a fan of the same old same old, right?
 
Ya!

I Guess You haven't Been Paying Much Attention!

Ya!

Keep Doing The Same F'N STUPID SSHITT!

That Should Fix It!

Vanilla said:
course! And then it will be another 50% on top of that. Then 80% more on top of that. And on and on we go because TAG CUTS DON’T BUILD DEER HERD NUMBERS! Say it out loud with me one more time! Tag cuts will not build Utah deer numbers. It hasn’t worked for the last 40 years, and it won’t work for the next 40 years.

Or we can just keep trying the same old Bessy. I know you’re a fan of the same old same old, right?
Click to expand...
 
Sorry guys I was out sheep hunting today, no luck, but to answer your question about is 71% enough. The answer would be yes if it all happened right at once. Taking 10-20% at a time never compensate for the loss for the year.
 
elkassassin said:
Keep Doing The Same F'N STUPID SSHITT!
Click to expand...

Like cutting tags? Which is what you’ve advocated for. Many times! (Not just the 10 tags on the Henrys) Basically, you’re in lock step with the same old same old Bessy, even if you won’t admit it.

Keep doing that though. I’m sure continuing to cut hunters out of the equation will fix mule deer for sure. You know, all those other groups that aren’t hunters that step up so much to help these critters! Heck, we can’t even get the alphabet soup “hunting” organizations we hand over millions of dollars to each year for “conservation” to help our deer herds.

Just keep whittling the hunting community down. What could go wrong?
 
Vanilla said:
Like cutting tags? Which is what you’ve advocated for. Many times! (Not just the 10 tags on the Henrys) Basically, you’re in lock step with the same old same old Bessy, even if you won’t admit it.

Keep doing that though. I’m sure continuing to cut hunters out of the equation will fix mule deer for sure. You know, all those other groups that aren’t hunters that step up so much to help these critters! Heck, we can’t even get the alphabet soup “hunting” organizations we hand over millions of dollars to each year for “conservation” to help our deer herds.

Just keep whittling the hunting community down. What could go wrong?
Click to expand...
Vanilla, I think the frustration is that the reality is cutting tags is the only tool we have because nothing else is being done. Fire needs to be ignited to get something better done.
 
Deer are chased from august to December. I don’t care what kind of weather you have, these deer get chased for so long they can’t help but be in poor shape entering winter months. In the 1980s deer was almost extinct on the Pauns unit. Shut it down for 5 years. I think it made a comeback both doe and bucks.
 
So?

Now You Must Be PISSED About Me Saying CUT THE F'N DOE Tags?



Vanilla said:
Like cutting tags? Which is what you’ve advocated for. Many times! (Not just the 10 tags on the Henrys) Basically, you’re in lock step with the same old same old Bessy, even if you won’t admit it.

Keep doing that though. I’m sure continuing to cut hunters out of the equation will fix mule deer for sure. You know, all those other groups that aren’t hunters that step up so much to help these critters! Heck, we can’t even get the alphabet soup “hunting” organizations we hand over millions of dollars to each year for “conservation” to help our deer herds.

Just keep whittling the hunting community down. What could go wrong?
Click to expand...
 
cantkillathing said:
Vanilla, I think the frustration is that the reality is cutting tags is the only tool we have because nothing else is being done. Fire needs to be ignited to get something better done.
Click to expand...

Yet I don’t see anyone advocating for anything else, just the tag cuts. For all the pros we have on here, they sure don’t have very many good ideas. What are those other things? Let’s do em!

And I’m not talking about Bessy’s 50 ideas like the color of your shirt you wear that will magically make the deer herd increase. I think out of 50 there was ONE that actually had to do with mule deer. What’s crock of crap.

I’m all for the discussion on real ideas that work. I’m beyond sick of the tag cut crew.
 
Your Memory Is Failing!

Go Back About 59,900 Posts & You'll See I Was Saying The Same Thing Back Then About Doe Hunts!



Vanilla said:
Not at all. Doe tags actually can impact the herd numbers. Finally, you’ve identified something that may have an impact. It’s only taken ya 60,000+ posts! Congrats.
Click to expand...
 
Only One That You'd Admit To!

When it Sinks In,You'll Know There's More Than One Reason Why!

But Until Then!

Keep Harping On Tag Cuts!

Vanilla said:
Yet I don’t see anyone advocating for anything else, just the tag cuts. For all the pros we have on here, they sure don’t have very many good ideas. What are those other things? Let’s do em!

And I’m not talking about Bessy’s 50 ideas like the color of your shirt you wear that will magically make the deer herd increase. I think out of 50 there was ONE that actually had to do with mule deer. What’s crock of crap.

I’m all for the discussion on real ideas that work. I’m beyond sick of the tag cut crew.
Click to expand...
 
Bessy- As long as you continue to advocate for tag cuts, I’ll be here to tell you how dumb it is.
 
I list a few that won’t be popular.
1. Reinstate more cattle grazing on summer range, cattle need to overgraze some canyons and extreme over grown areas.
2. Need to spray winter range for noxious weeds.
3. Fertilizer the winter range for better growth. I farm and if you never fertilize your fields or rotate your fields they will eventually be taken over by weeds.
4. Watershed restoration, over grazing will help.
5. More chaining a railings. I know if 4 million acres of cedar trees in my neck of the woods.
6. More water sources, drill some wells in winter ranges and use solar pumps.
7. Hire more full time trappers.
 
If there was just a guy out there that would tell you the truth instead of what you want to hear.?

And maybe he could tell you the future also?

Can you imagine?
 
You give yourself too much credit. You haven’t touched a nerve. I’ve never applied for a doe deer tag in my life.

And I’m not going to let your crap ideas off the hook just because you finally have said something that at least resembles rationality.
 

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