Looking for a New Rifle.

[crextin]

Hey gang. I am looking ot buy a new rifle and am curious as to which brand has better out of the box accuracy. I have an old remmington 721 30-06 that my dad bought used in 1960 and have used it myself for nearly 25-years. This old gun has had more ammuniton go through it than I can recall. Killed many critters from praire dogs to elk. The past few years I have had a tough time keeping my groups within 1" at 100-yards. I can drill a bull one shot then miss the paper the next. At first I thought it may be the user(me), but when putting my .270 to the test I can still drill 1" groups. So am convinced that the gun has outlived it's useful life span.

I do plan on reloading my own ammunition but will most likely use a few boxes of facotry rounds to get used to my new gun. My price range will be around $1000 after putting a good scope on it. The option of a left handed action is going to be a big factor in my decision.

Any info/advice you have would appreciated.


Crextin

 

[BigPig]

Take that great 721 action and build a custom rifle on it. It sounds like your barrel is shot out.

 

[mtmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-04 AT 08:21PM (MST)[p]crextin, What will you be hunting? I know you live in Montana and will probably use your rifle as a do all gun. I replaced my 721 30-06 about 4 years ago with a model 700 .300 ultra Mag. I'm not saying it is for everyone, but if you want a flat shooting, hard hitting rifle for everything from antelope to big bears, give it a look. mtmuley P.S. I know the 700 is made in leftys. Also, my rifle with a Leupold VX-II 4x12 came in at about 1200 bucks brand new.

 

[crextin]

Big pig,

That is what i figured as well. I thought about having the 721 redone, but the action needs work done on it as well as the barrel. I have a problem w/ the bolt chippin' the brass every once in a while. I talked to my older brother and he said that dad had some work done on it many years ago for the same problem. I figure it is time to retire the rifle. Thanks for the advice. The ol remmington has been one tried and true freezer filler over the years. Time to "put him out to pasture".

 

[crextin]

Mt Muley,

I'll be hunting most every thing a person can in this great state(except speed goats) I can't stand the taste of them things. I am not settled on a caliber yet and am considering several options. My brother recently has gotten into the 25-06 and really likes it, but have also considered the 300 mag as well. I am also think about the good ole 30-06 as I am already set up to reload that caliber. Am also thinking about a gun that my step daughter and wife could use. I am more interested in finding a good make and model of rifle that has good accuracy out of the box. Thankfully my brother is more into buying guns than I am and I have a reasonable idea of what guns have worked well and which ones don't. At this point caliber isn't an issue. Just the right make and model of rifle. Thanks for the advice.

 

[BigPig]

In that case I think the best production rifle for the dollar today is the Kimber 84 or 8400(WSM mag calibers). It will run you $800-900 so it might put you a bit over once you put a good scope on it. But it would be well worth it. The rifle comes with a beautiful, hand rubbed, oil finished stock, a very nice, crisp trigger, match grade barrell and a very smooth controlled round feed action. It will shoot MOA (1", 3 shot groups) at 100 yards right out of the box. It is also very light and handy. Check them out on the Kimber website. For caliber, I'd go with the .300 WSM for all around, one rifle, versatility.

 

[redrabbit]

Before the rifle is put out to pasture, have you cleaned the barrel realy well with a strong copper remover, like Barnes CR10? Clean till you get no more green color on the patches. Also, swap out the scope with a proven scope, like the one off your .270, to see if maybe its the scope that has failed. While you have the scope off, check the tightness of the base screws. Also check the clearance between the barrel and stock.

Doug/RedRabbit

 

[crextin]

doug,

Yes I clean my rifle regularly. I learned about good rilfe maintenance at a very young age. I clean my rifles every year after hunting season is over and each time before I go out and target practice. I know that keeping your rifle clean is paramount to maintaing accuracy. I'll try the CR10 as you suggest. I'll even double check the tightness of the base screws on my scope. As hard as it may be to believe this rifle has probably had close to 1/2 million rounds of ammunition through it. I honestly think the riflings have been shot out of the barrel. I have heard of this on more than one occaision. Thanks for the advise.

 

[alsatian]

One way to make sure your scope is stable within the scope rings is to put a small dot of women's fingernail polish on the scope which bridges between the scope and one of the scope rings. If the scope moves, the bridge of nail polish will show the movement. Make sure the small dot is adequate and adheres on both the scope body and the scope rings. I had a scope which did in fact move in the scope rings -- a very unpleasant realization, even though this was merely at the rifle range -- and the gun smith who fixed the problem showed me the trick with the nail polish. I have done this with all my mounted scopes and have confidence in at least the stability of my scope in the rings. I have also had an old, cheap scope whose focusing mechanism was messed up and moving this caused the crosshair to visibly move on the target. Crosshairs themselves can become broken loose from the scope housing.

I suppose you were just throwing numbers around when you said 1/2 million rounds, but as an engineer I felt compelled to run some calculations on this number. If the gun has had 1/2 million rounds shot through it since acquired in 1960, this can be averaged at about 11,000 rounds fired through the rifle per year or 218 rounds fired through the rifle per week, every week, 52 weeks per year. Another way of looking at it, if you paid $10/box of 20 cartridges, you would spend $110/week or $5720/year for commercial .30-06 cartridges. If you spend 30 seconds per shot -- some people recommend waiting 1 minute between shots to allow barrels to cool -- this would amount to 110 minutes of shooting per week -- close to two hours per week -- 95 hours of shooting per year.

 

[crextin]

Thanks for the advice on the nail poilish idea.

Understandably 500,000 rounds seems like quite a bit, and actual numbers of rounds may be somewhat less. However, it was not uncommon for me to spend 2-4 hours/ week shooting on average. And not at all uncommon to put 100 rounds/day through the rifle on an average weekend. I used to shoot a lot when I was younger. Over the course of 20-years that is roughly 200,000 rounds give or take.

I know that my dad bought the rifle used in 1960 and had the gun for 20-years prior to me picking it up and using it. So I do believe that it is possible that roughly 500,000 rounds have been chambered and fired.

As for the expense of shooting my dad did reload and I reload my own ammo that cuts expenses by 50% or more at least it used to. I haven't sat down and priced a box of reloaded shells lately, but I am sure that it is less that $10/box.

They say that practice makes perfect and I used to practice a lot. Don't have a whole lot to show for it in the way of newer rifles and hunting toys now, but I used to drive tacks at 400-yards w/ that old 721. Am happy now to be w/in 3-inches now. Being married and working full time takes its toll on practice time.

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

you cant beat those old 721's i have one in 270 that my grandpa got new somewhere around 1950 + or - and the thing shoots awesome. i carried it for half of my coues hunt and was ready to be the third generation of Charter's to hunt succesfully with it.
they are great guns and mine still shoots lights out~!
Casey

 

[Dsquared]

I would take a serious look at a TIKKA and/or a CZ. I have heard nothing praises coming from the guys who have bought them. They are available in many of the popular new short magnums. In Rifle Magazine they just did a feature article on the new CZ model 3 in 270 WSM. I looks like a very nice rifle.

Since you mentioned ELK, I would look towards a 30 caliber cartridge. Though many ELK have been taken by a single well placed shot from 243's and 25-06's.

In 270 Win, My favorite dark timber handload for elk is a 160gr Nosler Semi-Spitzer Partition, with H4831 powder. Loaded at 2700fps.

Just my $0.02, Don
Everett, WA

 

[rost495]

crextin

FWIW 500,000 is a lot of rounds. I don't know your idea of driving tacks at 400 yards. I'd assume most would be happy with 4 inches at that range. Most would be really happy as it would take more than most factory guns can allow to get that small at that range. Having burned up many barrels in my young life, I can assure you that your barrel would not drive tacks at that distance more than 10,000 rounds max. I could even see decent accuracy of say 3 inches or so with 20-40K rounds but once you get past that the barrel is toast.

I'd dang sure say its gotta be toast being a factory barrel. At way less than 500K. If you actually have that many rounds on the tube its probably really time to rebarrel for sure. Point here is not whether its XK or YK rounds, its time for a new tube. I should sit down and figure, max times fired for a case would be extreme at 25 divided by 500K, dang ya'll burned up a bunch of brass even.

Best of luck, Jeff