MAGA On The Ropes

[bullskin]

More and more Republicans have come to accept that the MAGA train wreck will cost them the House in 2024 if they do not stand together against Gaetz, Jordan and others who would destroy American institutions. Despite its failures, few will tolerate upending the system without a viable backup plan. To date, that plan seems to be handing the reins of government entirely to the Dems, and there is nothing less conservative than that. Way to go, MAGA.

 

[2lumpy]

Republican’ts unspoken governing history.
“Start, Stumble, Fart, and Fall”

I’ve said it for years, with Democrats, you know where they stand. When they say they are going to do something……. You can count on it……it’s going to happen.

When Republican’t say they are going to do something, you know they won’t. It’s ain’t going happen.

Trump is the only hope for the country.

 

[eelgrass]

That's perfect. When the nation goes over the brink to destruction you can blame MAGA.

 

[bullskin]

Nope. America is great because law and order, those who respect both, and the institutions in place to maintain them. MAGA and the Dems are all about overturning these institutions and normal Americans are beginning to realize this. Moderates will prevail in the House, the Senate, and the White House in 2024.

 

[eelgrass]

By moderate do you mean Republicans who compromise to the destruction of the United States a little at a time? You can actually kill a lion by pin pricking it over time.

You would have been more accurate if you would have said AMERICA on the ropes, instead of MAGA on the ropes.

Throw Trump and Biden in jail if you can follow the law and give them a fair trial. But based on past performance I say Trump and MAGA should plead guilty of putting America first and be sentenced to 4 years in the White House.

 

[bullskin]

By moderate do you mean Republicans who compromise to the destruction of the United States a little at a time? You can actually kill a lion by pin pricking it over time.

You would have been more accurate if you would have said AMERICA on the ropes, instead of MAGA on the ropes.

Throw Trump and Biden in jail if you can follow the law and give them a fair trial. But based on past performance I say Trump and MAGA should plead guilty of putting America first and be sentenced to 4 years in the White House.

I do not see the gloom and doom. Those on the left panic about climate change, black lives, etc. Those on the right worry that freedom of religion will somehow condemn them to Hell and have, inexplicably, placed their trust in a man who exemplifies none of the principles of Christianity in their desperation for validation. I see problems that can be resolved as they always have been, so long as the system is allowed to do its job. As for America's pre-eminent position on the global stage, that comes with the cooperation of other nations, and requires some give-and-take on our part. America IS first, by almost any measure, and the systems in place have made it that way.

 

[Homer]

The two tiered justice system has destroyed any trust of the "systems"......how do we fix that when you won't even admit it?

 

[2lumpy]

I do not see the gloom and doom. Those on the left panic about climate change, black lives, etc. Those on the right worry that freedom of religion will somehow condemn them to Hell and have, inexplicably, placed their trust in a man who exemplifies none of the principles of Christianity in their desperation for validation. I see problems that can be resolved as they always have been, so long as the system is allowed to do its job. As for America's pre-eminent position on the global stage, that comes with the cooperation of other nations, and requires some give-and-take on our part. America IS first, by almost any measure, and the systems in place have made it that way.

You’re a slow learner, that’s why you don’t see doom and gloom.

You……. being a slow learner has caused you to live in a different universe than we do.

So slow….. you pasted right over the reality of our dual universe, ignoring it completely……..believing, I suppose, your logic and our logic can be rationally brought together. These moderates your so proud of…. see the actual center……. as radical right wing Nazism or worse.

So don’t put your mind at ease if you believe the moderates are going to save America.

The ugly truth is this. When civilizations begin to crumble, their systems begin to fail. They begin to fail because members of the civilization begin to want to change the systems…. to something different from the systems that created the civilization. They want to change the values, they want to alter the idealogical infrastructure, they want to erase the memory from the next generations by removing the symbols, the written and oral history, the success stories, the failures and lessons learned and the reasons the civilization was what it was for better or worse. Without the future generation knowing and buying into the roots of the civilization, forthcoming generations cause it to collapse.

However, before the civilization collapses, the different factions/tribes/universes try one last thing, they bring forth, by what every means, a single human leader who is empowered to make order out of the chaos. As benevolent or tyrannical as the original appointed individual is, that is brought to power to bring order to the caucus……. either immediately or shortly thereafter the position is taken over by an absolute dictator that kills and controls through public fear and enforces…. total submission. This environment continues until a new civilization evolves out of the ashes of the old that have blown away from the terrorized minds of those who have lived without liberty or freedom for many decades, at which time another civilization, completely ignorant and uninformed of the previous civilization and its systems which held it together and caused it to succeed……. until those who lived in a different universe, destroyed it.

It’s a been an endless cycle since humans gather into groups.

Bottom line Trump…….. Donald Trump would have never ran for political office, let alone for the Presidency, if either the Democrats or the Republican’t had govern irresponsibly. The ONLY REASON he ran for office is because the swamp was and still is destroying America. If any of the Republican’t that ran in 2016 had demonstrated half of Trumps positions on issues, the toxic Trump wouldn’t have walked down the stairs of the Trump Hotel let alone had the support of more than 50% of the electorate…… if the the politicians had done their job . The incompetence and corruption of the existing politicians and the bureaucrats (the swamp) are so bad, half the country elected an unliked, unproven, untrusted, morally disgusting businessman. You and your universe literally caused Trump to have a political voice.

Now that is in the past, the Democrats and most Republican’t are not better than they were prior to 2016, they are worse. They’ve doubled down against Trumps platform, the American platform, not the European or a World Order platform. The swamp is still growing and exercising more limitations on liberty and freedom.

The failing system is pushing back against the single individual (Trump) that was attempting to bring order out of the chaos……… and I will end this diatribe, that you could careless about, nor understand….. by telling you this, God helps us, because when you’re finishing trashing and crushing Trump and the Trump platform, wait until you have a look at the next guy that takes the hole Trump is going to leave. Whoever or whatever it is, is going to make Trump look like a choir boy.

It’s that natural order of history, whether you see the doom and gloom or not. Listen carefully: There is nothing new under the sun, where humans are involved.

 

[bullskin]

As for supposed tiers distinguishing political figures and parties, I don't believe that these exist. Mistakes and favoritism by the courts have provided advantages to both, but not consistently, except in the minds of leftists and MAGA, neither of which will ever be satisfied unless they always get the outcome they want. Fair-minded Americans (and these are the majority) understand that the findings of EVERY court and state government--including those in red states--refute Trump's claim that the election was stolen by Dems. Over and over, we see Trump's claims rejected by both courts and Republican Governors. Powell even conceded that the claim is so ridiculous that she didn't really expect anyone to believe it. Cheesebrow admitted that his own brainchild to overturn the election would never withstand legal scrutiny, yet MAGA believes them both nevertheless. In the end, it is mostly MAGA and leftist Dems who distrust the courts because they cannot accept decisions that do not go their way. Snowflakes and strawberries, all.

 

[2lumpy]

 

[Homer]

As for supposed tiers distinguishing political figures and parties, I don't believe that these exist. Mistakes and favoritism by the courts have provided advantages to both, but not consistently, except in the minds of leftists and MAGA, neither of which will ever be satisfied unless they always get the outcome they want. Fair-minded Americans (and these are the majority) understand that the findings of EVERY court and state government--including those in red states--refute Trump's claim that the election was stolen by Dems. Over and over, we see Trump's claims rejected by both courts and Republican Governors. Powell even conceded that the claim is so ridiculous that she didn't really expect anyone to believe it. Cheesebrow admitted that his own brainchild to overturn the election would never withstand legal scrutiny, yet MAGA believes them both nevertheless. In the end, it is mostly MAGA and leftist Dems who distrust the courts because they cannot accept decisions that do not go their way. Snowflakes and strawberries, all.

I should have been more clear......there is trust in the courts to be mostly fair......it is the investigative and prosecuting arms of the justice system that have lost all faith in being fair....FBI, DOJ, State AG's......open your eyes...

 

[bullskin]

The courts will decide whether or not these agencies have evidence sufficient to prove their charges. If they do not, then they will deserve the scorn placed upon them by some. If not, then they will prove vindicated.

 

[Homer]

The courts will decide whether or not these agencies have evidence sufficient to prove their charges. If they do not, then they will deserve the scorn placed upon them by some. If not, then they will prove vindicated.

You are too simple for this argument.......

 

[bullskin]

Yours is not even an argument--just an opinion. But if you choose to support your claim with evidence, then it becomes an argument.

 

[Keystone]

Nope. America is great because law and order, those who respect both, and the institutions in place to maintain them. MAGA and the Dems are all about overturning these institutions and normal Americans are beginning to realize this. Moderates will prevail in the House, the Senate, and the White House in 2024.

Biden is the most progressive President we've had in a century.

You calling him a moderate shows only how far from beingvan actual moderate you are

 

[Keystone]

The courts will decide whether or not these agencies have evidence sufficient to prove their charges. If they do not, then they will deserve the scorn placed upon them by some. If not, then they will prove vindicated.

The courts don't get a say. The DOJ doesn't bring charges, so there's no court date.

 

[Keystone]

Yours is not even an argument--just an opinion. But if you choose to support your claim with evidence, then it becomes an argument.

2 Billion in damages. 20 dead.

Show me the leader of BLM charges. I'll show you tge proud boys. Let's compare and contrast

 

[bullskin]

Biden is the most progressive President we've had in a century.

You calling him a moderate shows only how far from beingvan actual moderate you are

I would say FDR is the most progressive President in the past century. Regardless, I am referring to moderate Republicans in the House. I believe they will similarly control the Senate. The White House will be lost to the Dems (again) if a moderate candidate is not put forward to contest it. My position on Dems is pretty clear. "MAGA and the Dems are all overturning American institutions..."

Neither will you hear me defend either, and (in response to your third comment) I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the Feds under Trump did not prosecute BLM radicals. If you are a Trumper, then perhaps you will explain why he failed to do so.

As for your second comment, I believe we are talking about unfair prosecution vis a vis Trump and Ass. If there are no charges, then what is the problem you are alluding to?

 

[NMFROM81]

The ONLY REASON he ran for office is because the swamp was and still is destroying America.

Got a good laugh outta this post, but this line cracked me up.
I bet you still think the ONLY REASON Trump is running is to save America.

 

[NMFROM81]

Neither will you hear me defend either, and (in response to your third comment) I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the Feds under Trump did not prosecute BLM radicals. If you are a Trumper, then perhaps you can explain why he failed to do so.

Dang good point. I’m sure there’s an excuse for him in the works.

 

[eelgrass]

2 Billion in damages. 20 dead.

Show me the leader of BLM charges. I'll show you tge proud boys. Let's compare and contrast

You'll get deflection but you'll never get an answer from the left.

 

[Flyjunky12]

That's perfect. When the nation goes over the brink to destruction you can blame MAGA.

When? I say we are already there, most just don't know or want to admit it yet.

 

[roadrunner]

The concept of MAGA is solid. How it's handled going forward cannot be status quo.

The (R's) have got to pull their heads out of their asses and quit playing the old worn out status quo game...

 

[Flyjunky12]

Honest question here....why don't the Dems ever talk about and promote all the good things that have happened during the Biden administration? Where are those glowing reasons why he should be voted into office again?

All I ever hear are attacks on Trump and when you are in an argument and fall back on attacks doesn't that usually mean you have no legitimate points to make?

On a related note, I'm still waiting to see my very first Pro-Biden sticker, shirt, hat, etc. It's almost like everyone who voted for him is ashamed to show they did so.

 

[Homer]

The courts will decide whether or not these agencies have evidence sufficient to prove their charges. If they do not, then they will deserve the scorn placed upon them by some. If not, then they will prove vindicated.

The “court” has nothing to do with or say who the investigating agencies need to investigate or how aggressivly the do that work…..those agencies are fully politicized…..you just like the direction they head so you are blinded….

 

[2lumpy]

The concept of MAGA is solid. How it's handled going forward cannot be status quo.

The (R's) have got to pull their heads out of their asses and quit playing the old worn out status quo game...

Ha ha, I’ve been saying that for the last 30 years. So far and as far forward as I can see, based on the current group of those we’ve elected…….. all they accomplished is get their heads further up their asses. They have paved every road for the Democrats…… including voting to support 70% of their bills into law. John McCain and Mitt Romney are two of worst as far as I’m concerned and I’m ashamed to say I voted for both of those one world order socialists. Romney fooled me outright but I was ignoring his record in Mass. so, it was him or the Democrat….. which I won’t do. I wrote in Anna Romney when he ran for the Senate. I knew MCCain was a closet Democrat all along but once again I voted for him over the Democrat. In the case of both Romney and McCain, we were damned if we do and damned it we don’t, and that I blame entirely on the Republican’t Party, for running RINOs for President.

I’ll take Trump again, with all his worts and molls. Hope Cher follows through this time and recruits a bunch to leave with her.

 

[bullskin]

The “court” has nothing to do with or say who the investigating agencies need to investigate or how aggressivly the do that work…..those agencies are fully politicized…..you just like the direction they head so you are blinded….

What direction is that? I want them to pursue all leads and hold everyone, regardless of political leaning, accountable. I am as frustrated as you that they did not punish BLM rioters. And I also wish they had held the Bundy's responsible for grazing taxpayer lands without fair compensation and taking over the Federal buildings at Malheur. If you object to either, then you are the one picking favorites.

 

[bullskin]

You'll get deflection but you'll never get an answer from the left.

Or the right. Why weren't these rioters held responsible by the Trump administration?

 

[bullskin]

Honest question here....why don't the Dems ever talk about and promote all the good things that have happened during the Biden administration? Where are those glowing reasons why he should be voted into office again?

All I ever hear are attacks on Trump and when you are in an argument and fall back on attacks doesn't that usually mean you have no legitimate points to make?

On a related note, I'm still waiting to see my very first Pro-Biden sticker, shirt, hat, etc. It's almost like everyone who voted for him is ashamed to show they did so.

I have not heard anyone compliment Biden because we all seem to agree that he is unfit to lead. You falsely equate criticisms of Trump with commendations for Dems, as if everyone who refuses to support Trump must therefore support Biden. Of course this is ridiculous. I could just as easily argue that your lack of support for my preferred Republican candidate means that you must be a closet liberal and love Biden.

A growing number of conservatives agree that Trump, too, is unfit for office. Many of those who voted for Trump concede that they do so only because he is "better than Biden" and they had no other choice. It is your observation about Biden, but with the shoe on the other foot. And so the Republican party is split, with many preferring to risk it all by sticking to their preferred candidate rather than seek common ground within the party. And so Biden wins by default.

 

[Homer]

Or the right. Why weren't these rioters held responsible by the Trump administration?

Because the DOJ bureaucracy is left wing....Trump had no sway...because he hired all DC insiders to run it......He was naive about how swampy the swamp really is.....

He won't make the same mistake....

 

[eelgrass]

Homer will answer it, but the left will just deflect.

 

[CenterFire]

I have not heard anyone compliment Biden because we all seem to agree that he is unfit to lead. You falsely equate criticisms of Trump with commendations for Dems, as if everyone who refuses to support Trump must therefore support Biden. Of course this is ridiculous. I could just as easily argue that your lack of support for my preferred Republican candidate means that you must be a closet liberal and love Biden.

A growing number of conservatives agree that Trump, too, is unfit for office. Many of those who voted for Trump concede that they do so only because he is "better than Biden" and they had no other choice. It is your observation about Biden, but with the shoe on the other foot. And so the Republican party is split, with many preferring to risk it all by sticking to their preferred candidate rather than seek common ground within the party. And so Biden wins by default.

Well said bullskin and 100% correct!

 

[2lumpy]

I have not heard anyone compliment Biden because we all seem to agree that he is unfit to lead. You falsely equate criticisms of Trump with commendations for Dems, as if everyone who refuses to support Trump must therefore support Biden. Of course this is ridiculous. I could just as easily argue that your lack of support for my preferred Republican candidate means that you must be a closet liberal and love Biden.

A growing number of conservatives agree that Trump, too, is unfit for office. Many of those who voted for Trump concede that they do so only because he is "better than Biden" and they had no other choice. It is your observation about Biden, but with the shoe on the other foot. And so the Republican party is split, with many preferring to risk it all by sticking to their preferred candidate rather than seek common ground within the party. And so Biden wins by default.

Therein lies the evidence that you’re slow….. you think the common ground is moderate or the middle ground. You think there is still a far right and a far left and the split is in the center. Wrong, the entire political world has moved so far left, the split is now between what used to be the center and the far left. The middle ground has skewed so far to the left what used to be the center, there is no politician that is to the right anymore. Everyone of them are far left of center, including every Republican’t. Romney believes he’s right of center, and claims he’s a moderate. So do you and , because you believe you are right of the left but where you and Romney are hasn’t been the center since Reagan left office.

She has all shifted left bubba……. But it’s not doom and cloom, when you live in a left leaning universe.

Go ahead, compromise your liberties away……. but as you’re doing so, ask Israel what they think about compromise now. How are the moderates in Israel getting along this week?

 

[bullskin]

Because the DOJ bureaucracy is left wing....Trump had no sway...because he hired all DC insiders to run it......He was naive about how swampy the swamp really is.....

He won't make the same mistake....

If a president has no sway over his own appointees and departments, then he is truly less competent that even his worst detractors have described him to be.

 

[bullskin]

Therein lies the evidence that you’re slow….. you think the common ground is moderate or the middle ground. You think there is still a far right and a far left and the split is in the center. Wrong, the entire political world has moved so far left, the split is now between what used to be the center and the far left. The middle ground has skewed so far to the left what used to be the center, there is no politician that is to the right anymore. Everyone of them are far left of center, including every Republican’t. Romney believes he’s right of center, and claims he’s a moderate. So do you and , because you believe you are right of the left but where you and Romney are hasn’t been the center since Reagan left office.

She has all shifted left bubba……. But it’s not doom and cloom, when you live in a left leaning universe.

Go ahead, compromise your liberties away……. but as you’re doing so, ask Israel what they think about compromise now. How are the moderates in Israel getting along this week?

You will lose your liberties more quickly by throwing every election to Dems. After fifty years, I still hunt every season with the same weapons I have always owned, and this is because right-leaning moderates and conservatives did not throw their influence away as they are doing today. The sky is not falling as fast as you and AOC seem to think it is. And if you think that EVERY politician is a leftist, then you must be Attila the Hun, and I do not believe that I would favor your autocratic leanings, anyway. Democracy is a liberal concept compared to any other form of government, yet I prefer it over all the alternatives.

 

[Homer]

If a president has no sway over his own appointees and departments, then he is truly less competent that even his worst detractors have described him to be.

Oh...left wing Presidents do.....the entire embedded swamp is left wing. If we ever get anther right wing President...he needs to fire 100 top level bureaucrats a day for the first 2 months starting January 21st....He has that power....the louder the MSM screams....the more he should fire......

Put the entire administrative state in a bread line.....

 

[2lumpy]

You will lose your liberties more quickly by throwing every election to Dems. After fifty years, I still hunt every season with the same weapons I have always owned, and this is because right-leaning moderates and conservatives did not throw their influence away as they are doing today. The sky is not falling as fast as you and AOC seem to think it is. And if you think that EVERY politician is a leftist, then you must be Attila the Hun, and I do not believe that I would favor your autocratic leanings, anyway. Democracy is a liberal concept compared to any other form of government, yet I prefer it over all the alternatives.

You are so naive……… A Democrat clocked as a Republican’t is still a Democrat. Electing a Republican’t since Reagan has been the same or worse than electing a Democrat, that admits he’s a Democrat. You believe electing a Republican’t that’s a closet liberal is not a recipe for loosing your liberty. I know that you believe that…….. you just spelled it out to me by saying:

After fifty years, I still hunt every season with the same weapons I have always owned, and this is because right-leaning moderates and conservatives did not throw their influence away as they are doing today.

That’s how it looks in your universe, for the last fifty, not mine.

 

[bullskin]

I get it. Democracy is not your thing. What else did you have in mind?

 

[Homer]

I get it. Democracy is not your thing. What else did you have in mind?

we don't have a democracy......never have.

 

[bullskin]

Here is Oxford's definition of democracy: "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives." That sounds like what we have had for a very long time.

I realize that you are most likely distinguishing between a democracy and a democratic republic on the basis of the Constitution, which limits power of the will of the majority in order to protect the minority, and I am fine with that. That said, most people today use the term "democracy" as per the definition above--referring to democratic principles allowing all to participate equally (and one which 2lumpy appears to discount).

There are not many Ben Franklins left among us who will split that hair, but I do agree that the Constitution itself provides critical protection against demagoguery--so long as the population supports law and order--another principle of democracy that some appear willing to discard.

And so I ask again. What system of government would he prefer?

 

[hossblur]

More and more Republicans have come to accept that the MAGA train wreck will cost them the House in 2024 if they do not stand together against Gaetz, Jordan and others who would destroy American institutions. Despite its failures, few will tolerate upending the system without a viable backup plan. To date, that plan seems to be handing the reins of government entirely to the Dems, and there is nothing less conservative than that. Way to go, MAGA.

No matter how much you or @Oneye keep trying, the last election, was lost due to Abortion ruling in the courts.

Trump said so, and knew so, yet still lived up to his word on judges(leadership).

Regardless of where you stand, Roe going down energized a very bored and indifferent left. They showed up, and voted in mass.

Trump wasn't on a ballot, but abortion was, in several states.

But don't let facts and data interrupt your hourly TDS outburst

 

[Homer]

Here is Oxford's definition of democracy: "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives." That sounds like what we have had for a very long time.

I realize that you are most likely distinguishing between a democracy and a democratic republic on the basis of the Constitution, which limits power of the will of the majority in order to protect the minority, and I am fine with that. That said, most people today use the term "democracy" as per the definition above--referring to democratic principles allowing all to participate equally (and one which 2lumpy appears to discount).

There are not many Ben Franklins left among us who will split that hair, but I do agree that the Constitution itself provides critical protection against demagoguery--so long as the population supports law and order--another principle of democracy that some appear willing to discard.

And so I ask again. What system of government would he prefer?

A representative Republic like we have.....a democracy is mob rule....is that really what you want?

Ballot initiatives are a democracy.......exactly why Colorado will lose lion hunting....the mob will win with only emotions....

 

[bullskin]

No matter how much you or @Oneye keep trying, the last election, was lost due to Abortion ruling in the courts.

Trump said so, and knew so, yet still lived up to his word on judges(leadership).

Regardless of where you stand, Roe going down energized a very bored and indifferent left. They showed up, and voted in mass.

Trump wasn't on a ballot, but abortion was, in several states.

But don't let facts and data interrupt your hourly TDS outburst

On the topic of abortion, I completely agree, although I also believe that several states lost seats in Congress because Republicans nominated weak candidates at Trump's insistence. Still not sure what this has to do with my comments to date. Still curious to hear what form of government you would prefer, or how you would change the Constitution that we have in order to achieve that outcome.

 

[Homer]

We have a speaker.....apparently congressional pay checks needed to be signed.....

 

[bullskin]

A representative Republic like we have.....a democracy is mob rule....is that really what you want?

I believe my previous comment speaks directly to that point... "the Constitution itself provides critical protection against demagoguery" and "limits power of the will of the majority in order to protect the minority."

Furthermore, you speak as though there were only one sort of "democracy." There are many, and when I speak of democracy, I am referring to our own.

 

[Homer]

Oxford has progressed into being wrong....

 

[bullskin]

Oxford has progressed into being wrong....

The confusion may lie in the apparent misconception that there is only one type of "democracy". There are many, ranging from Republics and representative democracies, to Parliamentary democracies, to Athenian democracies, etc. Oxford appears to apply a broader interpretation of the concept than you do. This does not make Oxford's interpretation better or worse, but it does illustrate the difficulty in communication. Safe to say, we are both talking about the form of democracy--our own.

 

[Homer]

Then don’t leave those words out when describing our form of government….

 

[bullskin]

I see. You would rather deflect by arguing with Oxford dictionary over the definition of a word. Those who use the word "democracy" in daily discourse throughout the United States almost never qualify the term because its accepted use is exactly as Oxford defined it. In reference to our political system, we say "democratic" process. When was the last time you heard anyone mention the "representative Republican" process?

Regardless, the question was intended for 2Lumpy in response to his assertion that compromise leads to failure. But democracy only works when all parties agree to accept their losses along with their wins. And so I wondered, how would he prefer to see our system changed? How would he rewrite the Constitution? Of course, I am curious to know the same of you.

 

[Homer]

You probably call the DNC the "democratic" party too......

 

[Homer]

OK....my answer....let's go back to what the constitution was originally...

I'd start with not popularly electing Senators (reverse the 17th amendment of 1913)....they were originally selected by state legislatures.....to represent their "state". Representatives were elected to represent the "people"......

to start....

 

[wetmule]

We have a speaker.....apparently congressional pay checks needed to be signed.....

Smoke Rises Over Capitol Indicating Congress Has Resumed Setting Taxpayers' Money On Fire

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Smoke rose from the Capitol building early this afternoon, indicating that Congress had resumed shoveling taxpayer dollars into a giant bonfire.

babylonbee.com

 

[bullskin]

You probably call the DNC the "democratic" party too......

Mike Johnson, the new Speaker of the House on democracy in his floor speech today:

"The democratic process is messy sometimes, but that is our system..."

You may want to drop him a line and explain our political system. Be sure to mention that he must qualify the sort of democracy or no one will understand what he is talking about.

 

[bullskin]

OK....my answer....let's go back to what the constitution was originally...

I'd start with not popularly electing Senators (reverse the 17th amendment of 1913)....they were originally selected by state legislatures.....to represent their "state". Representatives were elected to represent the "people"......

to start....

I understand. Where the Founders used the term "the people" when discussing the beneficiaries of good government, they were referring to the "public" interest, and not the selfish priorities of individuals. They similarly expected that the administrators of good government would be those who could, by merit of social status, distance themselves from the pressures exerted by the common man and find motivation instead in the rewards of reputation and integrity. Unfortunately (my opinion), Jeffersonian liberalism and its focus on individual interests has increased to the point that public service and public interests are eliminated from politics in favor of self-service and partisanship. That, to me, is the biggest failure of our system, and why I cannot support Trump and others who cannot observe the law and other norms of society. To me, these two are the most basic tenets of conservatism, and despite the pretense of those who label me "RINO," I understand that it is they who have exhibit liberal tendencies as they ignore the law when it suits them to do so.

I would have no problem with eliminating the seventeenth. That said, we are still speaking (in broad terms) of "democracy," which requires compromise, accepting losses along with wins, etc. And this is the question I intended to discuss with my response to 2Lumpy. If not democracy (big picture), then what? Whether we elect representatives or not, government by democracy cannot escape compromise, and neither was it the intent of our Founders that it should.

 

[Homer]

"others who cannot observe the law and other norms of society"

Oh......you mean like payments to the Biden crime family from foreign enemies???

 

[bullskin]

Yes, exaclty like that. But you won't find me among those who support him, so you are wasting your breadth if you believe you can paint me with that brush.

 

[Homer]

...you don't care.....it is so obvious....you only want Trump for your idea of law breaking

 

[bullskin]

I "only want Trump for my idea of law breaking...?"

Your comments do not make sense and almost inevitably avoid addressing the point. Perhap 2Lumpy can provide some meaningful feedback supported by more than just wishful thinking?

 

[2lumpy]

I understand. Where the Founders used the term "the people" when discussing the beneficiaries of good government, they were referring to the "public" interest, and not the selfish priorities of individuals. They similarly expected that the administrators of good government would be those who could, by merit of social status, distance themselves from the pressures exerted by the common man and find motivation instead in the rewards of reputation and integrity. Unfortunately (my opinion), Jeffersonian liberalism and its focus on individual interests has increased to the point that public service and public interests are eliminated from politics in favor of self-service and partisanship. That, to me, is the biggest failure of our system, and why I cannot support Trump and others who cannot observe the law and other norms of society. To me, these two are the most basic tenets of conservatism, and despite the pretense of those who label me "RINO," I understand that it is they who have exhibit liberal tendencies as they ignore the law when it suits them to do so.

I would have no problem with eliminating the seventeenth. That said, we are still speaking (in broad terms) of "democracy," which requires compromise, accepting losses along with wins, etc. And this is the question I intended to discuss with my response to 2Lumpy. If not democracy (big picture), then what? Whether we elect representatives or not, government by democracy cannot escape compromise, and neither was it the intent of our Founders that it should.

Whether Franklin actually said: A republic, if you can hold it.

The statement has depth and understanding of reality, which it’s why it has kept resonating for 250 years.

I know the point you’re making, big picture or little picture. Webster’s Definition, or anyone’s else’s definition that has commented here. I’m not concerned how or who defines the words or terms.

I’ve read enough history to understand the “general” definitions and the wordsmiths definitions that have been developed by all kinds of individuals, to argue a point or promote a political decision.

I’m going to make this last post on this subject and you can pick bits and pieces of it apart, to your heart’s content. I’m not interested in the further defining of words and terms, to support an argument.

I’m not an intellectual scholar, by any stretch. I’m just a simple old man that has tried to understand human nature and why and what people have done and continue to do, in our civilization.

I’ve been told, by scholars, that a civilization can fail by using the rules of itself……. against itself, in order to destroy it.

A simple example in our case would be using parts of one Amendment against another part of that same Amendment, and/or using one Amendment against a different Amendment.

A more simplistic example would be a democracy or representative republic or whatever it is, voting the democracy or representative republic, or whatever it is…… out of existence.

Hitler didn’t break any German laws, he manipulated German laws, by legal methods, to eventually replace the previous system, only then did he force his own rules and government on the German people.

My personal opinion, the universe I’m in sees and believe The United States is following a process whereby individuals are manipulating our rules and laws to replace our civilization and create an entirely new civilization…….. and they will do it by using our existing rules and laws to do it, including but not limited to our voting processes. In short, we will vote ourselves out of the previous/current civilization and into who knows what……socialism, communism, a monarchy, an oligarchy, or an autocracy, or some modification of the above.

We can and will likely vote our current system out. On the way down, as pervious civilizations have done, we will go through various convulsions as we will struggle for some kind of new equilibrium, before we go into an a full blown autocracy.

Yes, our democracy, representative republic or whatever, has the right to vote itself out of existence. Voting it out is actually far easier than a bloody coup, and a lot less messy. There are non guarantees with a bloody coup, and those attempting to destroy the pervious civilization want to end up rebuilding the new, so using our current system against itself is the what they prefer. So far, it appears it’s working as planned.

Maybe another day on a different subject, however I won’t be responding further on this specific discussion. Have a nice evening.

 

[Homer]

You can always vote yourself into a bad situation......you always have to shoot yourself out of it.....

 

[notdonhunting]

bullskin,
so I suppose it is ok to change any narrative that you want. Calling our government system a democratic process is exactly what is wrong with today's society. It is no different than boys calling themselves girls and girls calling themselves boys or boys and girls calling themselves some kind of animal.
"Boys are still boys, and girls are still girls."
It was clear that the founding fathers declared that the United States of America government would be governed as a "Consitutional Republic"
and no matter what the Oxford definition or the Webster definition or the liberals of Washington DC want to refer to our government system, it is a Consitutional Republic.

of those who label me "RINO,"

I don't label you as a "RINO"?

 

[bullskin]

Whether Franklin actually said: A republic, if you can hold it.

The statement has depth and understanding of reality, which it’s why it has kept resonating for 250 years.

I know the point you’re making, big picture or little picture. Webster’s Definition, or anyone’s else’s definition that has commented here. I’m not concerned how or who defines the words or terms.

I’ve read enough history to understand the “general” definitions and the wordsmiths definitions that have been developed by all kinds of individuals, to argue a point or promote a political decision.

I’m going to make this last post on this subject and you can pick bits and pieces of it apart, to your heart’s content. I’m not interested in the further defining of words and terms, to support an argument.

I’m not an intellectual scholar, by any stretch. I’m just a simple old man that has tried to understand human nature and why and what people have done and continue to do, in our civilization.

I’ve been told, by scholars, that a civilization can fail by using the rules of itself……. against itself, in order to destroy it.

A simple example in our case would be using parts of one Amendment against another part of that same Amendment, and/or using one Amendment against a different Amendment.

A more simplistic example would be a democracy or representative republic or whatever it is, voting the democracy or representative republic, or whatever it is…… out of existence.

Hitler didn’t break any German laws, he manipulated German laws, by legal methods, to eventually replace the previous system, only then did he force his own rules and government on the German people.

My personal opinion, the universe I’m in sees and believe The United States is following a process whereby individuals are manipulating our rules and laws to replace our civilization and create an entirely new civilization…….. and they will do it by using our existing rules and laws to do it, including but not limited to our voting processes. In short, we will vote ourselves out of the previous/current civilization and into who knows what……socialism, communism, a monarchy, an oligarchy, or an autocracy, or some modification of the above.

We can and will likely vote our current system out. On the way down, as pervious civilizations have done, we will go through various convulsions as we will struggle for some kind of new equilibrium, before we go into an a full blown autocracy.

Yes, our democracy, representative republic or whatever, has the right to vote itself out of existence. Voting it out is actually far easier than a bloody coup, and a lot less messy. There are non guarantees with a bloody coup, and those attempting to destroy the pervious civilization want to end up rebuilding the new, so using our current system against itself is the what they prefer. So far, it appears it’s working as planned.

Maybe another day on a different subject, however I won’t be responding further on this specific discussion. Have a nice evening.

Got it. I understand and I agree.

 

[Oneye]

No matter how much you or @Oneye keep trying, the last election, was lost due to Abortion ruling in the courts.

Trump said so, and knew so, yet still lived up to his word on judges(leadership).

Regardless of where you stand, Roe going down energized a very bored and indifferent left. They showed up, and voted in mass.

Trump wasn't on a ballot, but abortion was, in several states.

But don't let facts and data interrupt your hourly TDS outburst

Yeah, that must be why horrible MAGA candidates like Kari Lake and Walker lost huh. MAGA endorsed candidates lose at very high rates. Yes abortion is a huge issue that the majority of Americans aren't on the side of the GOP. It certainly factored, but most MAGA candidates went down in flames.

 

[hossblur]

Yeah, that must be why horrible MAGA candidates like Kari Lake and Walker lost huh. MAGA endorsed candidates lose at very high rates. Yes abortion is a huge issue that the majority of Americans aren't on the side of the GOP. It certainly factored, but most MAGA candidates went down in flames.

The libs were smart. They put abortion measures on swing state ballots bringing their voters out.

Walker was a disaster. But then the two previous that lost, whom the R wanted to run again, had already lost, and neither were "maga"

But then, the libs elected Fetterman, which proves less about "maga" and more about the libs.

 

[Oneye]

Bump bump bump.....another one bites the dust.

https://x.com/HolmesJosh/status/1722301861732991151?s=20

Tired of winning yet MAGA? You lost both chambers in Virginia last night, the Governorship of Kentucky stayed blue(MAGA endorsed candidate lost again), Ohio approved marijuana legalization, and right to an abortion. The Democrat came within 5 points of the governorship in Mississippi.

Republican's have so many advantages economically right now, and yet? Who keeps losing.

Tired of winning yet @hossblur ??

 

[Oneye]

How it started

How it’s going

 

[Homer]

Yep....you're winning oneye...why would you offer MAGA advice?

 

[hossblur]

Bump bump bump.....another one bites the dust.

https://x.com/HolmesJosh/status/1722301861732991151?s=20

Tired of winning yet MAGA? You lost both chambers in Virginia last night, the Governorship of Kentucky stayed blue(MAGA endorsed candidate lost again), Ohio approved marijuana legalization, and right to an abortion. The Democrat came within 5 points of the governorship in Mississippi.

Republican's have so many advantages economically right now, and yet? Who keeps losing.

Tired of winning yet @hossblur ??

So in order to win, the R need to embrace abortion?

Which is it? Your hero Romney, and, every leading R, is anti abortion. Except one.

Orange man isn't an abortion advocate. In fact as he was honoring the promise he made on SCOTUS, he said often and openly, striking roe would hurt republicans.

Funny how in trying to pretend an incumbent gov wining was a major deal, you agree with orange man??

 

[2lumpy]

I was already afraid we had crossed the threshold.

You can’t talk your way to success, eventually you have to put the shovel in the ground and move the dirt. The Republican’ts haven’t learned a damn thing from watching Trump for the last 7 years. I can smell smoke from here.

 

[hossblur]

The D are so confident they are desperately trying to toss Biden overboard.

Those swing state polls are terrifying.

Now Oneye will point to a blue state, that is blue as being some win, it's about as surprising as Utah staying red.

Abortion is going to go on every swing states ballots.

Now as principled people, anti abortion folks like me, believed it should be a state issue.

Now, if the R had a brain, they'd start hitting those same young voters with the reminder, that a draft is on the doorstep.

But, they won't, because it's better to be liked at DC dinner parties, then WIN ELECTIONS, AND DO WHAT YOU CAMPAIGNED ON, and not spend 2 years trying to shut down your own President.

2028 Trump will be dead or gone. Who is the R gonna blame then?


Btw, how funny is it watching the D try to figure out how to dump Biden, AND jump over the first black, Indian, VP, to run yet another middle aged, White, trust fund man in Newsome.

And, how they voted for Bashear, a middle aged White guy, over a black guy.

Principles after all,?

 

[Oneye]

Yep....you're winning oneye...why would you offer MAGA advice?

Simple, I'd like the GOP to be a serious party again some day.

The D are so confident they are desperately trying to toss Biden overboard.

Those swing state polls are terrifying.

Are they? A year out from the election? I'd love Dems to dump Biden, they don't scare me. You're gonna have a year of Trump legal cases and headlines in between. Then folks will walk into the booth and just like 2018,2020,2022, and 2023 pull the lever for the party they see as at least somewhat sane, even if they don't like them. When the moment comes in the voting booth, voters keep saying "nah" to the GOP.

Now Oneye will point to a blue state, that is blue as being some win, it's about as surprising as Utah staying red.

Kentucky is blue? Ohio is blue?

Abortion is going to go on every swing states ballots.

Now as principled people, anti abortion folks like me, believed it should be a state issue.

It's a losing issue.

Now, if the R had a brain, they'd start hitting those same young voters with the reminder, that a draft is on the doorstep.

But, they won't, because it's better to be liked at DC dinner parties, then WIN ELECTIONS, AND DO WHAT YOU CAMPAIGNED ON, and not spend 2 years trying to shut down your own President.

2028 Trump will be dead or gone. Who is the R gonna blame then?

I think it's you who should be blaming him actually. Not me.

Btw, how funny is it watching the D try to figure out how to dump Biden, AND jump over the first black, Indian, VP, to run yet another middle aged, White, trust fund man in Newsome.

They put M. Obama up and she'll win in a landslide, lucky for R's Dems are putting their worst foot forward too.

And, how they voted for Bashear, a middle aged White guy, over a black guy.

Principles after all,?

Winners, after all.

 

[Oneye]

So in order to win, the R need to embrace abortion?

Realistic abortion goals. Not extreme ones.

Which is it? Your hero Romney, and, every leading R, is anti abortion. Except one.

I can disagree with Romney on some things and think he's a far superior GOP guy than the orange idiot who keeps losing you elections.

Orange man isn't an abortion advocate. In fact as he was honoring the promise he made on SCOTUS, he said often and openly, striking roe would hurt republicans.

Funny how in trying to pretend an incumbent gov wining was a major deal, you agree with orange man??

During the current political field lol? Yeah, Dems again had a good night last night. They're pleased. Denial ain't gonna win you many elections....clearly.

 

[bullskin]

The libs were smart. They put abortion measures on swing state ballots bringing their voters out.

I don't think so. By placing the abortion issue on the ballot in '23, they have eliminated the pressure felt by abortion supporters to appear and vote for their candidate in '24. Now, many will either stay home or even vote R if that is where their other priorities lie. Dems will have to turn abortion into a national concern if they ever hope to motivate these voters again. R's would be very wise to keep pretending that they want this to remain a state's rights issue.

 

[hossblur]

"realistic" abortion g

Realistic abortion goals. Not extreme ones.

I can disagree with Romney on some things and think he's a far superior GOP guy than the orange idiot who keeps losing you elections.

During the current political field lol? Yeah, Dems again had a good night last night. They're pleased. Denial ain't gonna win you many elections....clearly.
[/QUOT


How did we lose in Ohio? I thought that was Kasich country?

I didn't notice "realistic" abortion in Ohio

It works. so does free college, gov handouts, section 8, etc. You can't beat Santa.


Sex without any consequences is a dream to some.

I remember the last two moderate R pres candidates. How'd that work?
.

 

[hossblur]

I agree, the D,

Simple, I'd like the GOP to be a serious party again some day.

Are they? A year out from the election? I'd love Dems to dump Biden, they don't scare me. You're gonna have a year of Trump legal cases and headlines in between. Then folks will walk into the booth and just like 2018,2020,2022, and 2023 pull the lever for the party they see as at least somewhat sane, even if they don't like them. When the moment comes in the voting booth, voters keep saying "nah" to the GOP.

Kentucky is blue? Ohio is blue?

It's a losing issue.

I think it's you who should be blaming him actually. Not me.

They put M. Obama up and she'll win in a landslide, lucky for R's Dems are putting their worst foot forward too.

Winners, after all.

Of course they will. Because , AGAIN, the libs don't believe in anything close to democracy. Pushing forward a backroom deal for President is their bread and butter. Whether that's JFK, or Biden

 

[Oneye]

I agree, the D,

Of course they will. Because , AGAIN, the libs don't believe in anything close to democracy. Pushing forward a backroom deal for President is their bread and butter. Whether that's JFK, or Biden

Mhmm....mhmm....mhmmm.

"realistic" abortion g

When people don't like your policies and you push them hard anyway you lose. So yes realistic approaches to abortion laws is a winning strategy. Being anti-abortion on a national level is stupid. American citizens are not with you on it. Clearly.

 

[hossblur]

Look, we lost this decades ago. We traded

Mhmm....mhmm....mhmmm.


When people don't like your policies and you push them hard anyway you lose. So yes realistic approaches to abortion laws is a winning strategy. Being anti-abortion on a national level is stupid. American citizens are not with you on it. Clearly.

Abortion for the right isn't a policy.

You will not convince the Mormons, Catholics, Evangelical that they should look past abortion to achieve marginal tax rates.

And your probably right nationally. But killing babies is a religious thing. The R watched abortion go from "rare, incest, rape, health", to full term on demand. They saw what being "realistic" got them.


The conservatives lost decades ago. We lost in the culture, on campus, and especially in the media. We listened to the Karl Rove types convince us that tax cuts were a winner, while the left got the kids.

I do see the irony though, with both you and @grizzly. You champion policies I doubt you'd be proud to have your daughter do, you champion policies that are destroying urban America, and destroyed the west coast. Yet you both live in one of the most conservative states in the country where no matter how stupidly you vote, you remain saved.

I wonder why that would be? You're obviously not convicted to your principles, or you would escape the hell hole that is conservative Utah. Hell neither of you even live in salt lake where you might see your policies in action.

 

[grizzly]

I do see the irony though, with both you and @grizzly. You champion policies I doubt you'd be proud to have your daughter do

Says the one championing the guy he'd never let his daughter marry

 

[hossblur]

Says the one championing the guy he'd never let his daughter marry

I've been extremely clear.

I won't vote Trump because 80 year olds aren't mentally sharp enough for the job.

That doesn't mean his close border, energy independence, peace in the middle east, overturned of Roe was wrong.

I don't give a flying **** is the president is a nice guy. I only care what his policies and achievements did for me first, country second.

I don't care if my heart doctor, cancer Dr, plumber or mechanic is a skirt chasing horse's ass either(and neither do you).

Results matter. Bullshit walks

 

[grizzly]

I only care what his policies and achievements did for me first, country second.

 

[hossblur]

Rashida Tlaib Cries On House Floor During Censure Vote, Ilhan Omar Comforts Her| VIDEO

Democrat Rep. Rashida Tlaib started crying on the House floor as the House advanced a resolution to censure her for her anti-Israel comments. Ilhan Omar was seen trying to comfort her as she defended her views on the conflict., World News, Times Now

www.timesnownews.com

House Censures Rashida Tlaib, Citing ‘River to the Sea’ Slogan

Twenty-two Democrats joined most Republicans in the rebuke of Ms. Tlaib, the only Palestinian American in Congress, accusing her of calling for the destruction of Israel.

www.nytimes.com

@Oneye , @grizzly .

Is this what winning looks like?

Open terrorist supporters on house floor.

This. These. They. This is what the "winners" look like. I know, grizzly is obsessed with mtg. But THIS is what the D party is. Only 22 D votes to censure for Talib calling for genocide, from the river to the sea.

22. The rest, then, supports genocide.

Soooooo, shall we just kinda support genocide, to "win". Meet them halfway? Adjust our policy message? Find talking points?

When faced with open terrorism, what is the moderate position? 1000 dead Jews? 859? If they rape only a few? A couple dead babies?

What is the "principled", "realistic" "moderate", position?

SPECIFICALLY

 

[Keystone]

Is anyone shocked that R lose? A Romney is RNC chair, and we lose.

 

[2lumpy]

Is anyone shocked that R lose? A Romney is RNC chair, and we lose.

Nope, we aren’t.

 

[antlerradar]

This election was a good one for Trump.
Not that Republicans won, they didn't. This elections was good for Trump in that it keeps Biden on the ticket. Had Republicans won the calls from Democrats for Biden to get out of the race would have been deafening. With the win there is silence. The longer Biden is in the race the better for Trump as a match up with Biden is Trump's best chance to win in 24.

 

[Oneye]

Look, we lost this decades ago. We traded


Abortion for the right isn't a policy.

You will not convince the Mormons, Catholics, Evangelical that they should look past abortion to achieve marginal tax rates.

Then lose.

And your probably right nationally. But killing babies is a religious thing. The R watched abortion go from "rare, incest, rape, health", to full term on demand. They saw what being "realistic" got them.

More killing has been done in the name of religion than almost anything else. The conversation of abortion is a complicated one. I'm not planning on drawing it out here though.

The conservatives lost decades ago. We lost in the culture, on campus, and especially in the media. We listened to the Karl Rove types convince us that tax cuts were a winner, while the left got the kids.

You lost because conservatives think the only way forward is that of the straight, white, religious, conservative man.

I do see the irony though, with both you and @grizzly. You champion policies I doubt you'd be proud to have your daughter do, you champion policies that are destroying urban America, and destroyed the west coast. Yet you both live in one of the most conservative states in the country where no matter how stupidly you vote, you remain saved.

This is beyond a stupid argument but keep coming back to it. It's certainly changing my mind. This state needs more balanced politics just like a state like California does. The problem is the Democrats or Republicans exclusively. The problem is extreme sides of both of those coins.

I wonder why that would be? You're obviously not convicted to your principles, or you would escape the hell hole that is conservative Utah. Hell neither of you even live in salt lake where you might see your policies in action.

Again, a totally moronic "argument". "You don't vote the way the most of us do, leave" cry cry cry cry cry. I'll continue to push back on Utah politics which are not balanced, are corrupt, and are not answerable to the people because you'll vote for them anyway because they have an R next to their name. A prime example right now? The top law officer in the state Sean Reye's who is a total fraud and always has been, has frivolously wasted tax payer dollars his entire tenure as AG, and has used his position as AG to squash investigations he doesn't like for his friends, and mislead people with his position. But as long as that R is there, fill out that bubble.

 

[2lumpy]

This election was a good one for Trump.
Not that Republicans won, they didn't. This elections was good for Trump in that it keeps Biden on the ticket. Had Republicans won the calls from Democrats for Biden to get out of the race would have been deafening. With the win there is silence. The longer Biden is in the race the better for Trump as a match up with Biden is Trump's best chance to win in 24.

President will remain the candidate until the DNC decides what in the world they are going to do about Vice President Harris. As soon as that decision is made, then we’ll learn who will be running for the office of the President…….. not one day sooner.

 

[Oneye]

Rashida Tlaib Cries On House Floor During Censure Vote, Ilhan Omar Comforts Her| VIDEO

Democrat Rep. Rashida Tlaib started crying on the House floor as the House advanced a resolution to censure her for her anti-Israel comments. Ilhan Omar was seen trying to comfort her as she defended her views on the conflict., World News, Times Now

www.timesnownews.com

House Censures Rashida Tlaib, Citing ‘River to the Sea’ Slogan

Twenty-two Democrats joined most Republicans in the rebuke of Ms. Tlaib, the only Palestinian American in Congress, accusing her of calling for the destruction of Israel.

www.nytimes.com

@Oneye , @grizzly .

Is this what winning looks like?

Open terrorist supporters on house floor.

This. These. They. This is what the "winners" look like. I know, grizzly is obsessed with mtg. But THIS is what the D party is. Only 22 D votes to censure for Talib calling for genocide, from the river to the sea.

22. The rest, then, supports genocide.

Soooooo, shall we just kinda support genocide, to "win". Meet them halfway? Adjust our policy message? Find talking points?

When faced with open terrorism, what is the moderate position? 1000 dead Jews? 859? If they rape only a few? A couple dead babies?

What is the "principled", "realistic" "moderate", position?

SPECIFICALLY

Who said either of us like or agree with them? Only you. Btw 22 Dems is a hell of a lot more Dems than you could get Republicans to censure someone in their party.

 

[Oneye]

This election was a good one for Trump.
Not that Republicans won, they didn't. This elections was good for Trump in that it keeps Biden on the ticket. Had Republicans won the calls from Democrats for Biden to get out of the race would have been deafening. With the win there is silence. The longer Biden is in the race the better for Trump as a match up with Biden is Trump's best chance to win in 24.

A matchup with Trump is also Biden's best chance to win. Both parties are playing chicken, but someone will actually lose. Unless of course it's Trump then we'll be 4 years down the road and he will have won 3 elections in a row, while only serving one term.

 

[hossblur]

Then lose.

More killing has been done in the name of religion than almost anything else. The conversation of abortion is a complicated one. I'm not planning on drawing it out here though.

You lost because conservatives think the only way forward is that of the straight, white, religious, conservative man.

This is beyond a stupid argument but keep coming back to it. It's certainly changing my mind. This state needs more balanced politics just like a state like California does. The problem is the Democrats or Republicans exclusively. The problem is extreme sides of both of those coins.

Again, a totally moronic "argument". "You don't vote the way the most of us do, leave" cry cry cry cry cry. I'll continue to push back on Utah politics which are not balanced, are corrupt, and are not answerable to the people because you'll vote for them anyway because they have an R next to their name. A prime example right now? The top law officer in the state Sean Reye's who is a total fraud and always has been, has frivolously wasted tax payer dollars his entire tenure as AG, and has used his position as AG to squash investigations he doesn't like for his friends, and mislead people with his position. But as long as that R is there, fill out that bubble.

I'm not trying to convince you. I just drag you out in the deep end and let you expose yourself, which you do with every post.

And NO, I didn't say leave, the voice in your head heard what it wants to hear. I did say, it's lost on no one you hide in Utah where your shitty politics won't touch you.

You know who agrees with me?

Rocky Anderson. Rocky Anderson is running daily commercials blasting the leftist, progressive politics you applaud.

As to the religions. I guess we will just lose if you think they are trading on abortion. They aren't. It's a principle for them, something the left talks about but doesn't understand.

Abortion isn't nearly as complicated as the left tries to make it. The R just need to decide to fight like the D.

For every commercial the left rubs about a rapist impregnating a woman, the R needs to run commercials SHOWING babies getting their skulls collapsed.

Abortion is the religion of the left. Let them face it head on.

 

[hossblur]

Who said either of us like or agree with them? Only you. Btw 22 Dems is a hell of a lot more Dems than you could get Republicans to censure someone in their party.

Why does what the R do affect the principled left?

 

[hossblur]

A matchup with Trump is also Biden's best chance to win. Both parties are playing chicken, but someone will actually lose. Unless of course it's Trump then we'll be 4 years down the road and he will have won 3 elections in a row, while only serving one term.

Bidens best chance is another pandemic

 

[2lumpy]

Don’t forget the Democrats don’t elect their candidate for President anymore. Their leadership names who it will be. They named Hillary, and they named Biden……. because, left up to their voters they would have had to deal with Bernie Sanders as their candidate and they can’t let that ever happen again. They don’t trust the their own voting base because left up to them, the old guard leadership will be gone in the blink of a voting machine. They taught their voters to hate America and they do, including the old Democrat Party.

 

[hossblur]

Don't interrupt Oneeye with facts, he's busy saving democracy, one super delegate at a time.

Dudes a walking talking hypocrisy.

On a hunting site, spewing support for gun grabbers(including Romney), yapping about public land while his leftist crowd invades G&F agencies ending hunting, and developing that public land with thousands and thousands of solar panels, and windmills. He will ***** about the Bundy's, but sit on his hands as his progressive heros make a mockery of the ESA.

And, then he hides in Utah safe from his politics.

 

[grizzly]

A matchup with Trump is also Biden's best chance to win. Both parties are playing chicken, but someone will actually lose.

Exactly.

The only idiot that could actually lose to Biden is Trump. And the only idiot that could actually lose to Trump is Biden.

My guess is the Democrats are baiting the Repubs to run Trump. The Democrats can't actually think Biden is the best they've got in the stable (notice Manchin today saying he won't run for reelection, but keeping the door open for future political office, keep your eye on him).

I think the Dems will get the Repubs to commit to likely-soon-to-be-felon Trump and then bring a younger moderate in as a breath of fresh air later in the game, and the public will gravitate to that person in droves.

The Republicans, however, won't do that. They're "True Believers" in Trump. Heck, 70% actually think the last election was stolen ?. Not even Mark Meadows, Mike Pence, Ivanka Trump, Ted Cruz, or Bill Barr believe that lie.

There are virtually no high-ranking officials from Trump's administration that believe that lie when questioned under oath, but Trump keeps spewing it and has tricked 70% of Republican Primary voters to thinking that it's true ?

 

[Cali4x4]

The idiot is Biden. Americans living through Bidenomics. It's the economy stupid. Have you been to a gas station or grocery store lately? Better hope you arent looking to buy a home. Interest rates higher than Joey's crackhead son.

I miss Jimmy Carter!​

 

[antlerradar]

My guess is the Democrats are baiting the Repubs to run Trump. The Democrats can't actually think Biden is the best they've got in the stable (notice Manchin today saying he won't run for reelection, but keeping the door open for future political office, keep your eye on him).

Joe Manchin can not win the democartic primay. The only way he or some other moderate like him gets the nomintion is if democrat party squashes the votes of their voters.

 

[hossblur]

Exactly.

The only idiot that could actually lose to Biden is Trump. And the only idiot that could actually lose to Trump is Biden.

My guess is the Democrats are baiting the Repubs to run Trump. The Democrats can't actually think Biden is the best they've got in the stable (notice Manchin today saying he won't run for reelection, but keeping the door open for future political office, keep your eye on him).

I think the Dems will get the Repubs to commit to likely-soon-to-be-felon Trump and then bring a younger moderate in as a breath of fresh air later in the game, and the public will gravitate to that person in droves.

The Republicans, however, won't do that. They're "True Believers" in Trump. Heck, 70% actually think the last election was stolen ?. Not even Mark Meadows, Mike Pence, Ivanka Trump, Ted Cruz, or Bill Barr believe that lie.

There are virtually no high-ranking officials from Trump's administration that believe that lie when questioned under oath, but Trump keeps spewing it and has tricked 70% of Republican Primary voters to thinking that it's true ?

How's that gonna work? There are rules about when names have to be on ballots? I believe Nevada is this month for starters?

Oh, that's right, rules don't apply to libs.

Second. How many of Clintons people truly believed the bullshit of Russiagate?

Joe Manchin is Joe Manchin. He was the dude that "held out" on D wish lists just long enough to get some extra, then every time, he got in line. On lesser bills, he'd vote with the R to pad his stats for campaign commercials. Not a chance he runs seriously, nor do any of the other jokers messing around. Romney and Huntsman? Good luck.

You won't get a middle candidate that has a chance.

Abortion, Guns.

Abortion specifically. The evangelicals are a no, along with Mormons, majority Catholics, and, a lot of Latino vote.
The left, is 100% abortion on demand through 9 months. There's not 270 electoral votes in the middle. And the next step is the House deciding, with zero chance they go outside of party.

You grizz, same as the other jokers with TDS never took a second to figure out the why. Trump, brings with him millions of voters who otherwise don't show up. His endorsements are about as useless as any other politicians(Obama lost everything everywhere from national to dog catcher).

COVID was a special event. It was utter chaos, and frankly Trump handled it poorly, he let bureaucrats run wild, and retreated leadership. Combined with the PLANNED chaos of St. Floyd riots, folks wanted a return to normal, thus "uncle Joe".

What they got is staggering inflation, gas through the roof, 2 wars,with a 3rd on the way and very visual mental and physical decline. R and D both agree, Biden isn't capable of being in charge.

Like it or not, Trump pulled 71 million votes, in losing.

Biden won't get to hide in the basement this time. Yeah, he'll duck every debate, but he will have to show up to campaign some. And, as the economy is now headed downward, and China knows his weakness gives them the green light, the chaos, will be with Biden.

I personally like DeSantis. Nikki Haley as Vivek has pinned her, is just a Cheney in hills, she's a neo con. Vivek, while fun, and correct on most issues, seems too wishy washy.

I won't vote for anyone over retirement age, which the feds say for my generation is 72. So, I'll most likely not vote President if it's Biden v Trump.

But not a chance in hell I'd vote Newsome. And, most likely, the internals the D have, not enough would, or Biden would have already been gone. Harris could never win.

But none of this matters, because they are the libs. Rules will change overnight, laws will be unenforced. Tradition will go out the door. The desires of their voters won't matter. The backroom is where the libs make these decisions, so that's where it will come. Without the backroom, there wouldn't have been a Biden president to start with. "Our democracy" is so important, it needs to be abandoned to save it.

 

[hossblur]

Lastly, and Ann Coulter (a huckster to be sure) correctly pointed out.

Wars with Russia, Iran, China, were openly called for during the debate. So while I like DeSantis the best of them, I also have 2 sons whom Im in no hurry to march off to neo con fights for the military industrial complex.

Like it or not, but Trump IS NOT a neo con. And frankly, blue collar middle America and poor America is tired of the libs and neo cons starting wars, to which their kids will never go.

 

[grizzly]

?

 

[hossblur]

?

When you got nothing