Mexican Wolf Recovery

[sagebrush]

I can live with the new proposal.

http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/wolf/MWCoopAgenciesEIS.pdf


Expands the Mexican Wolf Experimental Population Area to all lands south of I-40, east of AZ Hwy 87 and I-19, west of I-25 and down to the border with Mexico. Limits the population to a minimum of 100 animals and a maximum of 150 animals in each state, AZ and NM, for a total of 300 animals. Limits the growth in population to naturally reproducing wild animal dispersal except in the case of the population dropping below the minimum or for augmenting genetic diversity. Makes the state and tribal agencies the primary responsible for the recovery effort with oversight by USFWS. Provides for compensation to landowners and limits the allowable impact to ungulates.

If I must live in a state with wolves, I can live with 150. Too bad units 22 and 23 in AZ fall into the expanded area but there are enough controls in the proposal to limit the impacts on the people and game animals living there.

The big question is whether or not the wolf hippies and the USFWS will accept a management plan based on sound science that addresses the needs the the people that actually live in the recovery area.

 

[YELUM]

Ya, sure you can live with the max of 150. Problem is the wolf folks WON'T keep that deal. Remember, Yellowstone also had a max limit too. And that max limit has been buried in wolf fieces for years.



Yelum

 

[hank4elk]

Too bad the so called ,Mexican wolf, folks won't keep to it.
I guess doubling the number here in NM was inevitable.
They are already up to I-40 and over to I-25.
I'm 50 mi from the Blue Range zone, now they are here.

 

[elkassassin]

Word of Warning!

We have more Wolf Lovers on this Site than most people know!









[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[sagebrush]

I'd much rather have control at the state level than the federal level. Wolf hippies don't get much of an ear in the AZGFD. In this proposal, they can have as many Mexican wolves as they want as long as there is no more than 150 in AZ and 150 in NM. Once the population reaches that threshold, the wolves can be trapped and translocated, put in a wolf management facility or euthanized.

 

[deerslayer88]

Lets tie the wolf lovers to a tree in wolf country, with some raw steaks and see how much they love them then lol. Okay that was mean but some of them need to stop starring directly into the sun its frying their brains. Oh and I also would like to point out I do love wolfs but at the same time I see there needs to be a balance!

 

[elkun]

sage, are you high or just dumb. they wont stop at 150. shoot all the son of bsssss/

 

[deadibob]

There's 2 solutions to a wolf recovery. Either use a bigger gun or shoot them again. They won't recover from that

 

[NECALI]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-14 AT 08:33PM (MST)[p]It's kind of funny to hear TRANSLOCATE or the other options. What do you think they will do. Actually it's not funny at all. You guys will have them all over down there. Just give them time.

 

[sagebrush]

We have them now. The wolf hippies are pushing to expand the population objective to 900 and release captive bred wolves on the north side of the Grand Canyon on the Kaibab Plateau and the Arizona Strip. This is the direction the USFWS was headed until the stakeholders in AZ & NM rose up in protest.

Wolves are not going away. SSS didn't work. The USFWS started using cord collars that are hard to see in an effort to be able to improve enforcement on illegal kills. Digging in our heels will result in being steamrolled by the feds and their wolf hippie buddies.

Better to be in control than whine about the result.

 

[Zeke]

>There's 2 solutions to a wolf
>recovery. Either use a bigger
>gun or shoot them again.
>They won't recover from that
>

LOL +1
Zeke

 

[stoney]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-14 AT 08:08PM (MST)[p]Sagebrush,

And do you think the USFWS is going to give any control to the states until the wolf is supposedly fully recovered and taken off the endangered species list?

Terry Johnson a retired AZGFD man whom got rehired as a private consultant to write up the AZ wolf plan, all the while throwing NM under the bus. NM is not on board with AZ. Catron County NM and the Gila Region is the main goal of this expansion program and all direct releases, if the expansion goes through, will happen here in the Gila. We are already at capacity if you use Terry's formula of 3 wolves per 1,000 elk for a sustainable elk herd. We have approximately 15,000 elk in the Gila Region and already well over 60 wolves.

150 wolves on the AZ side where there are less elk will mean 1/3 of them will come over to join the 150 wolves Terry wants NM to have. Go to the AZGFD website and look up the big fancy AZ wolf program write up on how AZ with Terry Johnson as the lead man all these years, since 1978 mind you with him trying to establish wolves in AZ. The guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing and has the AZGFD and it Commission completely snowed under. He got shot down by all of the NM delegation of stake holders as well as two eastern AZ counties.

Our stance here in Catron County NM is that we will live with what we have now but we want no more wolves.

This damn thing is like cancer and growing fast. The Feds and the wolf lovers with all of their backing and money will make sure they have well over the 300 with them talking 900+ as their new goal post. The lying bas####s.

Next time you talk to anybody in AZ you better tell them to hang on to their bu##s as the AZGFD has and still is wanting to establish wolves into their fine state. So sad!!

Terry Johnson while getting paid very well by the AZGFD is blowing smoke up the AZGFD bu##s with the big carrot dangling out there that they will somehow get State control. That is not about to happen anytime soon I don't think.

The expansion of the Mexican Gray Wolf area is a total farce and will only lead to further expansion towards CA and down to TX. Much of this habitat was never Mexican Gray Wolf habitat. Even Terry admits that 90% of the Mexican Gray Wolf historic habitat is in Mexico. Maybe we need to have 100 wolves up here and put 900 down there.

 

[4100fps]

Stoney,

Your right about the ratio of wolves to their prey base, BUT, that includes all ungulates that are in the areas of recovery. They don't just eat elk meat. Some places like northwestern Montana they feast on whitetailed deer mostly.

They scavenge a great deal too. So add in your deer populations there to get the whole number.





I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.

 

[hank4elk]

There aren't many deer anymore here in NM,way more elk. Deer are in decline due to Predators, according to NMG&F.So bring in more. The next in line is cattle. Goats, Dogs,kids.
I'm in Catron county, and if the 60-80-? wolves are already up to Grants and out to Socorro and we see them around here semi-regular now,at least tracks,how are there going to be controls on 150?

And the SSS stuff is out, due to new collars and how fast those FW guys can home in....

I kinda hope NMG&F steps up more on control,but not holding my breath.
Local law enforcement might. But this county has Santa Fe and DC breathing down our necks already ,so that's doubtful.

 

[stoney]

4100fps,

You are correct in your assumptions and theories but that doesn't hold true here in NM & AZ. Our deer herds are minimal at best and the FWS has already documented that these hybridized wolves are existing primarily on elk and livestock. Talk to the 8 or 10 ranchers that have been hit hard in Catron County and they are darned sure supporting many of these government dogs.

hank4elk is very correct and backs up what the true situation is here.

Catron County and the Gila region which includes the original Secondary Recovery Zone has been the target for the pro wolfers all along. This expansion movement will ensure they get what they have wanted from the get go.

I have a friend whom was hunting turkey on opening morning April 15 of this year and at first daylight right under the tree where he had a gobbler roosted there were a pack of 8 wolves. These wolves are whacking our elk big time and have almost put one of the ranchers whom runs cattle there out of business. By the way he killed two gobblers that morning and no wolves.

One rancher in northern Catron County this spring lost 8 or 9 full term cows that were close to calving. The wolves got two in one packages as they start eating the cows alive while eating access to the unborn calf and the cows died very slow and painful deaths.

I could fill pages full of horror stories about these darn dogs from the start of the program almost 16 years ago.

I had a pack of nine in (right in the middle of our camp) one of my Gila Wilderness camps (it got pretty dang western for a while there) and the same pack the next day put two young hikers up a tree. That was the Luna Pack and the alpha male was one of the original wolves put into the middle of the Gila Wilderness. He was not afraid of humans and he trained his whole pack to ignore humans and human scent. These human habituated wolves are dangerous and destructive. By the way he strayed out of the Gila Wilderness the next spring and got shot.

 

[sagebrush]

"AZ-NM Mexican Wolf EIS Alternative Final: April 15, 2014

Submitted to USFWS by: Various Cooperating Agencies Page 8 of 30

Filename 140415 MW Coop Agencies EIS Alt Final (2) Submit comment to: [email protected]


a. When wolves reach the maximum acceptable population level of 150 in a State,
removals will occur as necessary to reduce the State-wide population to no more
than 150 wolves and a bi-State total of no more than 300 wolves.
b. Wolves removed from AZ-NM, in order to restore a Statewide population to no
more than 150 individuals and the bi-State total to no more than 300 wolves, may
be:

i. Provided to USFWS for the captive breeding program.
ii. Re-released in another State or Tribally-approved area.
iii. Provided to Mexico.
iv. Euthanized if captured alive.
v. Lethally removed."

v. Lethally removed - I read that as hunted.

 

[stoney]

Sagebrush,

How many elk in AZ are west of Hwy. 87? How many elk are estimated in the Expanded Recovery area from Hwy. 87 to the NM border.

AZ estimates they have between 45,000-50,000 elk in all of AZ. For 3 wolves per 1,000 elk that would be 150 wolves if you include all of AZ. there are a of of elk west of Hwy. 87

NM estimates there are between 25,000-32,000 in the Expanded Area with 15,00 in the Gila in the present secondary recovery area. We are at capacity in the Gila. The expanded area would theoretically support 96 wolves total.

Why is Terry Johnson promoting 150 wolves in each state when we are already at capacity with the elk population estimates provided by both Game Dept.'s and his own figures and fuzzy math.

Terry's plan has a lot of good in it providing the FWS lets the states take ovr the reins. That won't happen I don't think. The FWS won't turn it over until Congress takes the Mexican Gray Wolf off of the ESA. When we get to the numbers stated in Terry's document the pro wolfers will tie it up in the courts just like they did up north. You can bet on that.

Like Big Fin told me that the term "recovery" should be replaced with "viable" in the Mexican Gray Wolf expansion plans. In the MT/ID/WY negotiation they won the battle by getting "viable" which was deemed to be the maintenance of 150 wolves and 15 breeding pairs.