Montana corner crossing law,,,,,,,

[300stw]

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=207514&MESSAGES=18&state=Mt

please read the link at bowsite and respond, i for one am for it,,, especially now with high trespass fines coming,, the paper had an article stating know that sportsmen have 500 gps units there is no need for trespassing, now that sportsmen have these, they will know where the corner is easy to step from one place to another just like the tile in your kitchen,

every landowner i know my self included knows where there property corners are, locate pin ect, if landowners dont know where there boundaries are how can you post it,,,

cant have it both ways, i have 120 acres i can find every pin,, if there was public land connected where people could cross from one place to another legally i would be all for it,,,,

 

[7thgenmt]

It was shot down,as expected.There as been a $500 trespass fine for a long time.

 

[RockyDog]

hmmm access to public land by crossing at the section corners shot down by republicans. Funny how republicans are clamoring for access anytime the discussion is about roadless areas, yet when it comes to access to our public lands by stepping across at a corner they are suddenly against access.

 

[beech18]

I read the info on the vote too. I couldnt believe it voted down the party lines, all Repulicans voted against and all Dem's voted for it.

 

[Buckshot2]

WOW!! never thought that would be illegal in the first place!!

 

[soupcreek]

I am a strong advocate for hunters rights, but I cannot support the confiscation of personal property rights. The problem came years ago when the land was transferred from the federal government ownership into private hands. This type of checker boarded ownership should never have been allowed without reserving access for the public to the remaining public lands. With that being said, that isn't the way it happened, and we cannot/should not take back what we have lawfully sold/given away.
I suggest rather than confiscating, we take other measures that encourage private land owners to grant easements.
Possibilities could include deeming the isolated public ground a temporary nature preserve that does not allow anyone (especially the private land owners) to hunt on the land either until a public easement is granted. We could also work with the BLM and Forest Service and have them revoke grazing permits and the like on isolated public lands.
Private land owners should not have exclusive access to and exclusive ability to use our public lands. So, we need to find ways to legally motivate them to allow public access. The ranchers/land owners are going to fight it tooth and nail, but if you revoke their privileges to graze on 7500 acres of National Forest, they might be willing to work something out. Many ranchers actually only own a minimal amount of acres (500-2000), so their entire operation depends on their ability to graze on public ground.
I am for getting access, but I want to do it without infringing on the personal property rights of my fellow Americans.
-Soup

 

[Snowy50]

>I am a strong advocate for
>hunters rights, but I cannot
>support the confiscation of personal
>property rights.


How does this bill or corner crossing involve the confiscation of personal property rights? If somebody steps over a corner without stepping on somebodies property, nothing is confiscated.

 

[soupcreek]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]First, I want to point out that the argument you make uses common sense. Second, the law doesn't always agree with common sense.
I am not an attorney, but do have a lot of experience in land surveying and real estate. Here is a link I found to some information about property rights and air space:
http://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/

This is specifically talking about aircraft flying over private property, but it gives good details about laws regarding personal property rights to the airspace directly over the ground.

When a person crosses the airspace above private property, even without touching the ground, they are trespassing according to the law. They do not have the right to cross either on the ground or through the airspace above the private ground. If we make it legal to do so through this bill, then we are confiscating the personal property right of the land owner to say who can or can't cross his property/air space.

I realize that it is a very small thing to jump across a corner, but when we start taking rights away and giving them to the public, we are on a slippery slope. Rather than a corner, what if we only need to cross a 1 foot strip of private land to access public land? Do we create a new law for that? A 10' strip? A 100' strip? And so on until the private property owner has little or nothing left, all for the "good of the public". Even though jumping a corner seems like a small thing, I don't think it is.

Like I said in my first response, I also do not feel that it is right for them to have exclusive private access to the public lands. I feel that a better solution to the no public access problem, is first to fix the exclusive private access problem. That is why I put forth the ideas about cutting off exclusive private access to public lands. I think solving the first problem (exclusive private access to public lands) will also help solve the second (no public access to public lands).
-Soup

 

[RockyDog]

Has corner crossing always been illegal in montana? When i was a boy first hunting in the 80s we used to cross corners. I remember the landowner telling us it was OK with him but dont know if it was legal.

 

[Snowy50]

Soup,
I am not an attorney either, but I have done some research. There is plenty of case law that supports corner hopping if you look. Again, I don't see were any rights are being taken away. If that is the case, a pilot is taking my property rights away every time he/she flies over my house, but they are not. They have the right to travel through air space, just like we should have the right to travel from corner to corner, without taking anybody?s rights away. I feel my rights have been taken away because I can't access my public land!

As far as your other ideas, I think getting behind and supporting HB 235 would be a lot easier and less strain on sportsmen/landowner relations then trying to revoke the grazing rights and trying to enforce the adjacent landowners from not using their public land for recreation. Speaking of rights being taken away?
just my 2 cents

and yes, as far as i know corner hopping has always been illegal in Montana

 

[beech18]

I agree we can not infridge on property owners but the arguement against corner hopping is a joke in my opinion. Its public lands they are blocking. Ive read the arguements on both sides of the isle. Think I might just have to invest in a small airplane, cost less than many 4 wheel drives or many 4 wheelers that alot of people have, Ill just fly into the lands that can accomindate landing in.