My thoughts regarding the Expo Tag decision

Hawkeye

Long Time Member
Messages
3,014
Sorry for the long rant but I have been holding this in for a while. Now that a decision has been formally announced, I want to offer a few personal thoughts on the State of Utah?s decision to award the next Expo Tag contract to SFW. As some of you know, I have volunteered some of my professional time to RMEF over the last several months in an effort to help them prepare their proposal and comply with the DWR?s requirements (and changing requirements). I did this because I appreciated RMEF?s willingness to step up and voluntarily offer to do the right thing to generate more money for actual conservation. That being said, my comments on this forum are my personal comments as a Utah citizen and sportsman. If RMEF wants to make any formal statements, it can do so through David Allen, Rod Triepke, Randy Newberg or others.

First, I would like to summarize some of the key points of RMEF?s proposal. As you know, in its original proposal that was submitted back in September, RMEF committed to bring its National Convention to SLC, Utah for the next 5 years and voluntarily committed to dedicate 100% of the $5 application fees to authorized conservation projects in the State of Utah. After the State of Utah changed the rules and issued a formal RFP in early October, RMEF was disappointed but it decided to play along with the changing rules and work improve its initial proposal. The proposal that was submitted in response to RFP included the following (most of this information was revealed in the state?s justification document or has already been posted on Randy?s website):

- 100% of the application fees from the 200 Expo permits would be returned to Utah for habitat, access, and conservation.

- RMEF would bring its National Convention to Salt Lake City for the life of the contract.

- RMEF offered to give DWR 50% of the total net income from the national convention that would be moved to SLC. Given the level of sponsors RMEF attracts to its national convention, the fact RMEF has 205,000+ members, and RMEF has a media platform that reaches millions, the size of this event would have grown far from what it currently is and would have grown far beyond what RMEF currently has as its national convention in Las Vegas. To provide 50% of that larger number is not insignificant.

- RMEF voluntarily committed to provide an annual independent audit of the expo/convention and make the results of such available to the public. After all, these tags around which this event seems to be focused are a public asset. RMEF believes it is only reasonable to give the public assurance of what is done with those monies generated by the public asset of tags.

There are many other details to the RMEF proposal that will be revealed when the proposals are made public. But as you can see, RMEF?s proposal was extremely generous to the State of Utah, sportsmen and wildlife.

Second, I was disappointed that the DWR changed the rules mid-stream. As explained previously on this forum, the DWR has an administrative rule that governs the Expo Tags (R657-55). That Rule has been in place for a decade and has been amended by the DWR and the Wildlife Board over the years when changes for made to the Expo Tag program. In fact, the Wildlife Board just amended the Rule in January of this year to make certain changes, including the option to extend the 5 year contract for an additional 5 years. Section R657-55-4 sets forth the requirements for apply for the Expo Tag contract. It spells out (1) who can apply, (2) when applications were due, (3) what information must be included in the application, (4) the criteria for deciding which group would be awarded the contract, and (5) who makes that decision. If you read that the DWR?s Rule, it says NOTHING about a formal RFP process. RMEF worked for many months to prepare a detailed proposal that complied with the requirements of the DWR?s Rule. After we submitted the RMEF proposal on the September 1st deadline, the DWR informed RMEF that they were no longer going to follow their rule and that they were moving to a formal RFP process. This came as a complete surprise to RMEF and me. The DWR stated that they had been planning on moving to a formal RFP process for some time but it took longer than expected. I see several problems with the DWR?s position: First, state agencies are bound by their administrative rules, which have the binding effect of law. Second, if the DWR wanted to use a different approach then why didn't it modify its rule accordingly? Third, if the DWR wanted to use the formal RFP process then why didn't issue the RFP prior to the application period set forth in its own rule? And fourth, if the DWR was unable to prepare the RFP in time then why didn't it notify all conservation groups not to submit proposals as required by the rule? Although I was troubled by the DWR changing the rules after the fact, RMEF ultimately decided that it would play along with the DWR?s changing rules and submit a proposal in response to the RFP.

Third, I am disappointed that the DWR chose to move forward in a manner that violates it own Administrative Rule. As explained above, the RFP process is in direct conflict with R657-55-4. The DWR has attempted to explain away this problem by stating that the DWR is using the formal RFP process to implement to requirements of R657-55-4. This simply is not true. The formal RFP process employed by the DWR conflicts with multiple provisions in R657-55-4. During the last two wildlife Board Meetings the attorneys for the DWR even admitted that there are conflicts. In a last ditch effort to justify the move to a formal RFP, the attorneys for the DWR stated that they are required to use a formal RFP under the State Procurement Code Statute, and to the extent that there are conflicts between the requirements of R657-55-4 and the State Procurement Code, the State Code controls. Well, there is one major problem with this argument. If the State Procurement Code Statute truly controls, and the State Code requires the use of a formal RFP, then the DWR has been violating those requirements for the past 10 years. They previously awarded 5-year contracts to MDF/SFW pursuant to the process set forth in R657-55-4 without using a formal RFP. It was only after RMEF submitted its proposal that this new process was publicly announced. As a side note, it will be very interesting to see if SFW or MDF submitted a proposal under R657-55-4 prior to the September 1st deadline. If they did submit a proposal then this supports the argument that nobody knew about the new RFP process. If they did not submit proposal then they obviously had more information than RMEF.

Fourth, I am disappointed that the DWR changed the process without any public input. Whenever the DWR enacts or changes rules, those changes are typically presented to the RACS and the Wildlife Board. This provides an opportunity for the public to participate in the process and provide input. Anyone who has attended a RAC meeting or Wildlife Board Meeting knows it can be frustrating. However, that is out only real opportunity to express our views and participate in the process. As a result of the process that was employed by DWR, the public was denied any opportunity to comment on the change from the process set forth in R657-55-4 to the formal RFP process. Now, a contract is going to be awarded pursuant to that new RFP process for the next 5 years (10 years with the extension) and the public has had no opportunity to comment on that change in process. Had the DWR included the new RFP process in its amendments to R657-55-4 earlier this year, this would not have occurred. I asked the lawyer for the DWR earlier this week if they were ever going to go back and change their rule to conform to what they are already doing, and he stated that would likely happen at some point. You all know the saying, ?a day late and a dollar short.?

Fifth, I was disappointed with the form of the RFP. Much has been said on these forums about the requirements and the grading criteria in the RFP. Many have claimed that the criteria favored SFW and MDF. I will merely state that when I first saw the RFP, it was clear to me that that it would be very difficult for RMEF to respond to many of the criteria with the same level of specificity as the groups that already have the contract. I knew that RMEF?s proposal would be very strong as far as money generated for actual conservation and tourism dollars. However, there were a number of additional criteria included that are very difficult to address when you are a new party seeking the contract. On those items, RMEF did its best to explain what it would do if it was awarded the contract and made it clear that it would comply with all of the DWR?s requirements and recommendations. However, if you look at the Recommendation Committee?s Justification Statement (http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf), you will notice that they repeatedly stated that RMEF?s proposal lacked detail, documentation and evidence in certain categories whereas SFW?s proposal contained documentation, specific numbers and historical information. Section 4 dealing with the Permit Drawing and Data Security Plan is perhaps the best example. Although SFW?s proposal has not yet been released, I am assuming that SFW laid out in detail the process that it has had out in place over the last 10 years for conducting the drawing and maintaining data security. In contrast, RMEF committed to meeting all of the DWR?s requirements, noted that it was in discussions with two potential subcontractors who can provide this service (both of whom have worked for the DWR previously), and noted that it would have everything in place well in advance of the Expo. However, the Selection Committee stated the following with regard to the RMEF proposal: ?The Offeror B response addresses the main components of this category, but omits the details necessary to effectively review the proposal. The proposal states Offeror B will comply with the standards in the RFP, but gives few details on how they will do so. Offeror B states that they will hire a contractor in the future, but the proposal gives no details on how they will run a complex drawing, maintain data security, manage data, or interface with DWR databases. The proposal contains minimal details on PCI compliance at the expo.? This section of the RFP alone resulted in a 40 point swing to SFW. This is just one example but the Justification Statement confirms repeatedly what I first thought when I saw the RFP ? that it would very difficult for any conservation group seeking the contract to respond to many of the criteria with the same level of specificity as the groups that already have the contract and the experience of hosting the expo.

Sixth, I was frustrated earlier this year when the DWR amended R657-55 to allow the DWR and the Wildlife Board to extend the Expo Tag contracts from 5 years to 10 years. That concern, however, is moot at this point. I am now of the opinion that no conservation group is ever going to win that contract from SFW/MDF under the current system. My opinion is based upon the following: (1) I doubt that any conservation group could offer anything more than RMEF already put on the table (and lost); and (2) Given the criteria in the RFP and the recently released Justification Statement, it would be practically impossible for any new group to provide enough detail and specificity to compete with the parties holding the current contract. Ironically, I don't think that SFW or MDF ever thought they were really in risk of losing the contract. As you will notice in Section 5 of the Justification Statement, SFW and MDF will continue to keep $3.50 of every $5.00 application. If SFW was truly worried that it might lose the contract, it almost certainly would have offered to contribute a larger portion of the application fees to actual conservation. Congratulations to SFW for putting together the winning proposal.

Finally, I would like to thank RMEF for being willing to step into this mess. It has been a long and difficult road that changed directions a couple of times but at every juncture they were honorable, professional, and committed to doing the right thing. It was a pleasure working with RMEF and I am sorry that the State of Utah did not recognize the true value of what RMEF was offering. If you are not a member of RMEF, please consider joining. I also want to thank all of you who helped along the way, expressed support, called and emailed the DWR and Wildlife Board, etc. Please continue to do so. I have been working on this issue (Expo Tags) for nearly 10 years now, and I don't plan to let up. I guess I am a glutton for punishment. Stay tuned as more information is released and comes to light. Sorry for the long rant but I have been trying to stay quiet until a decision was made and lawyers always have a lot to say.

-Hawkeye-
 
I think that's a great email to send the DWRs way, along with a few others. You may want to shorten it a bit though. It's very frustrating for sure.
 
Hawkeye,

Thanks for your post and the hard work you put forth in behalf of RMEF. There was a lot of work on both sides of this issue. Not sure if it was a and b through the hole process or if the actual names of the groups were given. I know that SFW had been doing this for 10 years giving them more information with backup. That probably hurt RMEF. why did the Elk foundation leave Utah a few years back. They must have thought that more money could be made in Reno.
I have good friends that work for the Elk foundation and after there were hand shakes statements like, lets work together. I know there are many anti SFW people on here and that fine. My respect goes to RMEF for stepping up, making offers, and trying for the tags.
It was a tuff day. Glad it is over with. I was nervous up till the final announcement.
 
Thanks for all your hard work hawkeye. It is a d shame utah's wildlife could have benefited immensely from a real conservation organization like RMEF. instead utah wants to fill SFW'S pockets even more.
 
If the laws were broken, RMEF should have their lawyers file a lawsuit against the DWR for failure to comply with the law. I am a member of both mdf and rmef and have to say I would have loved to see rmef get the contract, I think that if they make it more public about what all is happening behind the scenes, that it might open a few more eyes and get more people looking into things and might do some good for our wildlife.
 
Thanks for your time and talent Jason.

Has the GRAMA request been sent? If you need a contribution to
Cover those costs let me know.




"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
Hawkeye, I would like your permission to post this info from you on my facebook page. Please pm me if its ok thank you again
 
Stone, please do. He won't care. Get the word out. He wants as many people as possible to see and KNOW what's going on. It's on a public forum. Share away!
 
Hawkeye, even though you got your azz handed to you, you took like a professional. Both you and Birdman are appreciated for your hard work and accomplishments.
 
>Hawkeye, even though you got your
>azz handed to you, you
>took like a professional. Both
>you and Birdman are appreciated
>for your hard work and
>accomplishments.


That first comment was absolutely uncalled for and ridiculous, but definitely not surprising from where it came!
 
How did he get his Azz handed to him? If I understand right, HE and RMEF got screwed. Please explain?
 
YBO, I am not sure whether you intended that as a compliment or a dig. It doesn't really matter to me. As an attorney, you quickly learn to develop thick skin and to not take things personally. My only gripe about this decision is that I did not feel like there was not a level playing field. If the SFW's proposal is truly better for sportsmen and wildlife then so be it. Time will tell once the SFW's proposal is released. Given the fact that they are still pocketing 70% of all application fees, I am fairly confident that SFW offered the current status quo but wrapped it up with detailed explanation of what they have been doing for the last decade at the Expo. And frankly, that is exactly what the RFP asked for.

I knew it would be an uphill battle going in but I appreciated RMEF's willingness to submit a proposal knowing "the deck was stacked against them" - Muley73's words. I wanted to help them in their effort. I appreciate the kind comments from some of the folks on this site but the reality is that we should be thanking RMEF. The State of Utah just rejected an absolutely amazing offer that went above and beyond the minimal requirements imposed by the DWR. The DWR might as well sign a 100 year contract with SFW because I don't think any conservation group could convince the State of Utah to award the contract to them regardless of what they offered. The system is broken.

I have been working on the Expo Tag issue for nearly a decade. During that time, small improvements have been made to the program due to the passion and efforts of many. SFW, MDF and the DWR have fought us at every step. The Board's decision was no surprise to me. I was disappointed but not surprised. I will keep working, poking, prodding and digging. Stay tuned for future developments.

-Hawkeye-
 
It wasn't an insult. I'm sure Hawkeye felt he had put in the time and effort to get a more favorable result. Therefore, he probably felt disappointed when he received the poke in the eye (unfavorable news.) Like I said, both sides deserves kudus for their diligence and professionalism. Damn we got some pretty sensitive nimrods on this forum.
 
Hawkeye, I personally want to thank you for all the work you have done for this cause. It's a shame that this continues to take place. Does RMEF have any legal recourse in the Federal courts?

As always thanks for your time

Sincerely Joe


"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
I truly appreciate Hawkeye and RMEF's efforts on this front. The financial windfall an RMEF Expo would have provided Utah wildlife is hard to exaggerate. An additional million plus dollars a year was shunned by the DWR. Remember that the next time they are asking for higher fees, more money, etc.

While I would support RMEF if they chose to fight this in the courts, I don't really expect them to go that route.

I am wondering if a private citizen like myself would have standing to bring suit, however. Hawkeye, other legal professionals out there, if there is any interest in getting together a group of Utah citizens to continue the fight in court, I am willing to participate.

The fix was in from the moment they announced the RFP process. If we stay silent, there is no hope for improvement in state government.

Bill
 
>I am wondering if a private
>citizen like myself would have
>standing to bring suit, however.
>Hawkeye, other legal professionals out
>there, if there is any
>interest in getting together a
>group of Utah citizens to
>continue the fight in court,
>I am willing to participate.
>
>
>The fix was in from the
>moment they announced the RFP
>process. If we stay silent,
>there is no hope for
>improvement in state government.
>
>Bill

What's the quote? "All it takes for evil to exist is for good men to do nothing."

I'll throw in $100 right now if somebody puts something together.

Grizzly
 
It will definitely take the citizens of Utah and any of the rest of us NRs that want to help to take action against this debacle, as BIgFin has already stated that RMEF will not spend any money trying to fight the decision when that money can be better spent to achieve their mission statement.
 
Hawkeye can we sue them? I would be happy to sue them in regards to this. I can donate to the cause.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
So on one thread we have people mad that Utah is going to spend millions in a suit against the Feds. On this thread everyone wants the DWR and SFW to get sued. Apparently nobody cares as much about spending as they want us to believe.

I'll tell you this. I am not upset at RMEF. I think they do good. If I didn't if wouldn't donate to them year after year. But if they bring suit against any of these groups or the DWR me and them are done. The winning move here is for them to bring an expo to SLC and succeed. Period. Win through action and abandon whimpy whining.

I have heard time and time again that RMEF doesn't need those tags to succeed so all this is moot.
 
What are the odds that the wildlife board actually wanted more transparency on how the money is being handled. Probably scared the ##### out of them.

Justin
 
>So on one thread we have
>people mad that Utah is
>going to spend millions in
>a suit against the Feds.
> On this thread everyone
>wants the DWR and SFW
>to get sued. Apparently
>nobody cares as much about
>spending as they want us
>to believe.
>
>I'll tell you this. I
>am not upset at RMEF.
> I think they do
>good. If I didn't
>if wouldn't donate to them
>year after year. But
>if they bring suit against
>any of these groups or
>the DWR me and them
>are done. The winning
>move here is for them
>to bring an expo to
>SLC and succeed. Period.
> Win through action and
>abandon whimpy whining.
>
>I have heard time and time
>again that RMEF doesn't need
>those tags to succeed so
>all this is moot.
Just to make it fair could you move the event to the east coast.
 
Hawkeye -

Thanks for your detailed explanation and diligent efforts. I believe you donated a majority of your time and efforts from what Randy mentioned on his post.

You have been fighting this for 10 years so I'd like to ask you, what can we do moving forward to change these practices?

These recent developments will be possibly the best time in memory to make a difference and take action. There are a number of sportsmen in Utah growing tired of the actions of DWR and SFW. More so than ever before.

Brian
 
>What are the odds that the
>wildlife board actually wanted more
>transparency on how the money
>is being handled. Probably scared
>the ##### out of them.
>
>
>Justin

They've got the keys to the store and are doing as they please.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-15 AT 12:13PM (MST)[p]Brian,
What about the large numbers that support and attend banquets. That show up to projects, that donate time and personal money? You guys all base your opinions off of the Internet instead of reality. Some of you including Hawkeye don't really know or remember what it was like before SFW. The battles and fights that Sportsmen and women were losing. The DWR had zero accountability on how our dollars where spent. I'll never ever say that SFW is perfect. But many of the people on these forums have no idea what the history and reality has been here in Utah.

Good luck to all those that want to see change. All I will say is if you topple the SFW I sure hope you have a realistic plan to give the sportsmen in Utah a powerful voice going forward.

When I come on here and voice my views I'm called a cronie or a kool aid drinker. Well I can assure you this with out question. My views and stance on this stuff goes back 35 years and it's all based on Utah and equals ZERO personal gain for myself. That can not be said by many many many of the vocal anti SFW crowd on this forum. It does not escape me that when I battle for my views I come off as a pond of SFW. I wonder if is escapes others that they are being played and manipulated by larger organizations in this game of power and money. I doubt it. I am not a kool air drinker, I am an informed realist. Hunting across the state of Utah is better now than it was 25 years ago. Have we lost some deer tags, yes, but that is because we have lost 60% of our deer herd. It just happened to be SFW that stepped in and said enough, our resource can not handle unlimited tags, elk herds have grown, way more opportunity to hunt elk in Utah, more turkeys by unbelievable amounts, more sheep and goat tags. Restored pheasant hunting. It's taken money and power to accomplish these things. It's the reality of the world we live in.

I'll get hammered and beat up by the same crew that does every time. That is fine. But seriously go back and looks it's the same small group. The reason that more pro SFW guys aren't on here is because they don't care. They know the reality and they continue to support and move forward with what they believe in. They don't come on here and battle because they are make a difference in the Real World.

Brian if you feel strongly about a movement are you and the Hush crew going to still have your booth at the Expo this year? That's an honest and fair question I believe.
 
Muley_73,
First, who is Brian?
Second, Are you saying that everything was done by the book with this committee in the awarding of SFW the tags, expo whatever? I'm not talking about 25 years ago and what these people did, I'm talking about present day. Are you saying that, Well MDF and SFW did so much 25 years ago now it's time for them to reap the spoils? I don't have near the education as many here on MM but when an organization like RMEF is willing to give all the monies from the app fees to be used for wildlife and the others organizations are keeping it or the biggest part of it for their own personal gain and or use that's a problem.

I'm a NR so I don't have a dog in this race, but I sent an email to RMEF telling them I'd be happy to donate money to help fund a law suit against the state of Utah, as I think a lot of other people would be willing to do.

Thanks all for allowing me to voice my opinion
Your friend Joe



"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-15 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]Joe,
I understand your view based on how much information you have and source you have gained it. I believe SFW was awarded the contract based on the system they were both asked to present in. I also believe that the big picture was taken into consideration rather than just based on the dollars. I'm not here to fight and argue about the decision that was made. But I believe those that are screaming accusations either don't know the full history or they don't care. It's more about toppling the SFW than it is about actually doing more good for Utahs wildlife. That is what my only concern is so I am happy the SFW was awarded the contract.

Brian is the person that posted in the post just above mine.

Joe, I have read many of your posts and I beleive you're a straight up guy, your opinion is always welcome in my book whether we always agree or not. Thanks!
 
Muley_73
Spoken like a true gentleman. That's what I loved about this site we can agree to disagree.

Thanks for your time
Your friend Joe


"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
I finally had some time and wanted to post a few thoughts. A number of people of have asked if we can band together and file a lawsuit in response to the Wildlife Board?s latest decision. I am not in a position to provide legal advice to third parties on this public internet forum. As you know, I have volunteered my time over the last year to represent RMEF in this matter. I will let David Allen, President and CEO of RMEF, speak as to what RMEF will or will not do. That being said, Randy Newberg has made it fairly clear that RMEF?s mission is to ensure the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat and our hunting heritage. Given that mission, I would be surprised if RMEF decided to engage in litigation with a state agency or another conservation corporation.

I believe that it will be the responsibility of Utahans to clean up the mess that currently exists in Utah. The reality is we have allowed one conservation group to obtain a tremendous amount of power and influence over the wildlife process in this state. They have done this by getting involved, raising money, donating time, participating in committees, RACs and Board Meetings, lobbying politicians, etc.

If you have any doubts regarding the level of influence that SFW has over wildlife management in this state just think back to the Wildlife Board Meeting on Friday. The Wildlife Board consists of 7 individuals appointed by the governor and they are essentially the governing body for the DWR. Pursuant to the DWR?s RFP, a selection committee recommended that the next Expo Tag contract be signed with SFW but that recommendation had to be voted on and approved by the Wildlife Board. You would think that would be a simple administrative matter. However due to the conflicts that exist on the Wildlife Board, 3 of the 7 Wildlife Board Members recused themselves due to conflicts of interest relating to SFW. The members who recused included the following:

1. John Bair ? Chairman of the Wildlife Board and former President of SFW (http://www.zoominfo.com/p/John-Bair/332099644)
2. Byron Bateman ? Board Member and former President of SFW (http://sfw.net/2015/07/06/sfw-board...governor-gary-herbert-to-utah-wildlife-board/)
3. Steve Dalton ? Reportedly a lifetime member of SFW.

That left the following 4 Wildlife Board Members to participate in the vote:

1. Kirk Woodward
2. Calvin Crandall
3. Mike King
4. Donnie Hunter

As a side note, many have wondered if Donnie Hunter should have also recused himself due to his involvement with SFW. According to SFW?s own materials, Mr. Hunter is or has been a member of ?SFW?s Mission Fulfillment Board? (http://www.huntexpo.com/pdfs/Expo_Auction_Catalog_Final.pdf) and he is also listed repeatedly as an ?Iron County Chapter volunteer and long-time SFW supporter? (http://sfw.net/2014/05/20/sfw-plants-bitterbrush-on-parowan-front/). Under Utah law, a government employee should recuse himself ?if they have any type of personal relationship, favoritism, or bias that would appear to a reasonable person to influence their independence in performing their assigned duties and responsibilities.? (R33-24-106). You be the judge of whether Mr. Hunter should have participated in the vote last Friday. One thing is for sure, if Mr. Hunter would have recused himself, the Wildlife Board could not have made a decision because they would not have had a quorum (only 3 of 7 Board Members). That would have created a real problem for the DWR.

Please don't get too caught up in the conflict issue as it results to the vote that took place last Friday because the reality is that the Wildlife Board was considering a very narrow issue ? whether to accept the recommendation from the selection committee. The decision to go with SFW was made long before the packets arrived at the Wildlife Board. I only point to that conflict issue to highlight a much larger problem. How did we end up with majority of the Wildlife Board Members having strong relationships and ties to a single conservation group (including two former Presidents of SFW)? What does that say about SFW?s influence on the DWR, the legislature and the governor? How does that influence impact the decisions made by the Wildlife Board? How does that influence impact decisions made by the DWR?

I am not one of those guys that hates SFW and everyone involved with SFW. I have friends who are affiliated with SFW, and I myself am a former member. I also recognize that SFW engages in many projects and activities that benefit wildlife and sportsmen. However, I believe that no single group should have too loud of a voice or too large of an influence. And I have seen examples over the years where SFW has taken positions that I believe run contrary to the best interests of sportsmen and wildlife. Even more troubling, I have seen instances where, in my opinion, the DWR did not protect the interests of sportsmen. For example, the DWR allowed SFW and MDF to pocket 100% of the application fees from the Expo Tags for the first several years despite the fact that the tags were created to generate revenues for wildlife conservation and despite a resolution from the Wildlife Board at the time the tags were created that the DWR would include an accounting requirement in its contract with the groups. That never occurred. And when sportsmen, including myself and others, began to dig into the issue, the DWR was less than accommodating. Why? Because of the close relationships and the influence that SFW has within the DWR. As a result, there is a level of mistrust and frustration that has been building among sportsmen for years.

Circling back to the current issue, I have always felt that this problem is a political issue not a legal issue. At some point, we as sportsmen have to say enough is enough. We will need to organize ourselves and do what SFW has done -- get involved, raise money, donate time, participate in committees, RACs and Board Meetings, lobbying politicians, etc. In the meantime, please continue to send emails to the DWR and the Wildlife Board. Contact your legislator, the governor and the media. Talk to your friends and educate them on the issues. As sportsmen, we allowed the current system to become what it currently is. Once enough sportsmen are fed up with the system, we will be in a position to change it.


-Hawkeye-
 
>[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-15
You guys all
>base your opinions off of
>the Internet instead of reality.

I don't doubt one bit that there are plenty of good people that belong to SFW and that do great things for wildlife in UT.

I appreciate your perspective of 35 years as well. I think its time to evolve beyond the conservation model that SFW represents. I want what is best for all of us "average Joe's" and the wildlife we chase. RMEF's proposal would have done just that. Giving back more money not only to wildlife, but also to this economy.

Had SFW matched this proposal that would have been equally as good.

While I don't agree with SFW on a number of items, my main point of contention is with DWR and how they handled this entire process. It is easy to look at what took place and see how much of a gong show it was.


>Brian if you feel strongly about
>a movement are you and
>the Hush crew going to
>still have your booth at
>the Expo this year?
>That's an honest and fair
>question I believe.

My views are my own. I don't speak for anyone else. I also don't think boycotting the Expo would make a bit of difference. At this point, the contract is set for the next 5-10 years. That is a reality. Like I said above, my contention is with the way DWR handled this situation not SFW directly.

Changes and action needs to be taken with DWR for anything to be different in the future.
 
I agree with Hawkeye on every point. This selection defies logic & common sense (and is probably illegal). This is so disgusting that there will be no more UT big game hunting for me & I intend to persuade all that I know to go elsewhere to hunt, esp. given the following: 1) a preference/bonus pt system that is flawed/broken; 2) loss of hunting opportunity because of the drawing system & loss of public access to public lands; 3) wasting $14 million for a lawsuit to takeover public lands, that if successful will result in loss of public access/use, and if lost would only be a waste of millions of $$ that could be used to improve wildlife habitat (so its lose/lose any way you look at it); 4) a CWMU program that basically uses public resources for private gain; 5) taking public hunting tags to enrich private interests; 6) relaxing muzzy hunting equipment requirements that destroy the primitive weapon experience.

Excuse my rant, and maybe I'm wrong, but I've had enough of UDWR's nonsense.
 
Hey Muley the Reason more of your $FW buddies don't come on here is......

1. there's really is not that many of you.

2. When they did come on here, they couldn't answer any of the pretty simple questions that were being ask and had no defense of the stupid sh !t that $FW pulls. So they don't come on here.

Even you don't or can't answer any questions you just keep singing the same old tired tune.

Oh and did you just say $FW restored pheasant hunting in Utah? Really? LMAO!!! Bit of stretch, don't ya think?

You said " I wonder if it escapes others that they are being played and manipulated by larger organizations in this game of power and money"

Can you explain what you meant by this?
 
Maybe it should be mentioned the Utah DWR purchased 10,000 of the 13,000 pheasants. SFW and and NWTF helped buy 3,000. So don't be giving SFW more credit than they deserve on that. SFW has done some good things, but they are a corrupt worthless group we could do away with and another group would pick up the slack and do everything they do only better.
 
I don't think nwtf helped with the pheasants. I would like to see where they did. Pheasants forever did some habitat work but bought no bitds. I think it is true of the $160,000 dollars put in to Pheasants only $60,000 came from sfw. The hens that sfw put out each spring is an add on. The youth hunts came from birds mostly raised by sfw members labor and all donated by members.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-15 AT 11:37PM (MST)[p]You are correct SFW purchased the remaining 3,400 birds. I misread it, NWTF volunteers helped release the birds. The birds they release during the spring are doing a total of 0% good so they should be subtracted IMO. Pheasants forever chapters doing habitat work is great, too bad we don't have more quail and pheasant forever chapters throughout the state, they're great and PF is a rest organization. The DWR purchased 10,000 birds, so no SFW did not save the pheasant hunt. That being said SFW members and volunteers do great work, my guff is not with them, my problem is with the leadership, how they funnel their money, how they close their books, and how they make Utah look like a joke on a national scale. The people running the banquets and doing good work are doing a great job, the organization called SFW they represent is shameful.
 
13000 birds for $160000 ? is this correct oneye? Where did the Birds come from ? who was the "Purchase" made From. Sounds mighty pricey for predator chow to me. Good thing the volunteers didnt have to be paid. hey Birdy, Can you give us an estimate of how many birds the "Youth" hunters harvested, you mentioned, or who the birds were purchased from?
 
This is exactly my point. DWR for years and years said that raising pheasants and releasing them would not work. It was pressure from an organization that said we are moving forward with this would you like to be involved or not. That is when the DWR and PF finally got involved. Without SFW pushing for it it would not have happened.

Releasing hens seems crazy and a waste??? How did the first pheasant population start? Just curious.

Again a positive for soortsmen, the youth and its having success and exactly the same guys are whining and complaining. Just like I said they would.
 
One thing for sure:

Anybody mentions anything smaller than a Deer/Elk on any kind of Project We've got people gettin Mad!

Jr has Helped with these Pheasant Releases since they started Happening!(Rarely known Him to Hunt any of them but He Enjoys Helping!)

SFW doesn't Stand for 'just' Big Game!

I don't Hunt Birds much anymore but these Guys that Have Countless Time/Hours in to their Dogs & Buy Licenses like to Hunt just like everybody else and if somebody doesn't throw a few Birds out the Hunters & Their Dogs don't stand a chance with all the Small Game Predators we have!

Ya,I'll get My Ass Chewed for this Post!

But as long as it's the Only/First Time I get Chewed it'll be O.K.!:D:D:D


"I'm Living & Dieing with the Choices
I've made!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=N8i5NLyXZdc
 
My point was releasing a bunch of stupid pen raised birds is not "restoring the pheasant hunt". Give me a break. Shooting pen raised birds is not hunting it's just killing and if you're an adult and that type of thing brings you joy and satisfaction then you have problems.
Muley, the first birds released in the states were wild caught birds not pen raised. Go to the PH website and educate yourself on the subject. Its been tried thousands of times with no success what makes you think now that $FW is in the pheasant business it's now all of a sudden going to work? Utah has no pheasant habitat left, do you honestly believe releasing pen raised birds with no habitat is going to restore the wild population? I'm sure all the predators appreciate all the hard work tho.

Oh BTW you didn't answer any of my questions from my last post, but that's about par for the coarse with you and your $FW buddys.
 
I'm still waiting to be told that the millions of dollars
Left on the table are good for wildlife.

Don't get sidetracked. One group wants to find wildlife
The other wants to fund themselves.



"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
First of all I don't think on eye has his figures correct. But then I don't know how he gets them. The youth pheasant hunts are a big success. The youth that are involved in the SFW pheasant hunts have the birds turned loose the morning of the hunt. Usually 3 birds per hunter. They have a great time. The birds are raised by both SFW members and a private contractor. I could mention names but I won't. The contractor the hens come from in the spring has acres of fly pens with very wild birds. True the hens have a high mortality rate. Maybe loss of 40%. They are marked thus making it easy to tell them in the field. Every year there are hens that are marked with chick's so some good comes from it. Now tell me I am full of it and have no idea what I am talking about. Don't want you to loose that hate for sfw. By the way, that so called $1.75 that everyone says is pocketed by SFW leadership is where a lot of the money comes from for pheasants and fish for the sportsmen of Utah.
 
We appreciate SFW's involvement in youth pheasant hunts.

Now please explain how allowing SFW to continue to pocket $3.50 from every $5 Expo tag application benefits sportsmen and wildlife -- especially when RMEF was offering 100% of all application fees, 50% of all net profits from the Expo, and to provide an independent, detailed audit for the entire Expo so that sportsmen could see what monies are raised and where they are going?

-Hawkeye-
 
Exactly Wiley, I guess they don't need the money. I hope everyone remembers this when it comes time to put in for tags, at the end they have that little donation box. They should just delete that now that they don't need the money.

Birdman, how are these hens marked to easily identify them in the field? Just curious.
 
>We appreciate SFW's involvement in youth
>pheasant hunts.
>
>Now please explain how allowing SFW
>to continue to pocket $3.50
>from every $5 Expo tag
>application benefits sportsmen and wildlife
>-- especially when RMEF was
>offering 100% of all application
>fees, 50% of all net
>profits from the Expo, and
>to provide an independent, detailed
>audit for the entire Expo
>so that sportsmen could see
>what monies are raised and
>where they are going?
>
>-Hawkeye-

Any responses from SFW members on this one should be real good, LOL!
 
Hawkeye, the $3.50 you talk about being split now 3 ways, that money SFW gets is going into projects for sportsmen. Not just big game, but fish and upland game. You know conservation tag money can not be used for those. There are always projects going on like turkey transplants going on now in oak city. The pheasants,the tiger musky planting. The tiger musky in Joe's Valley were bought and paid for by some of that money. As you know the rules for the $5 fee must be kept in a separate account where the division can watch.
As for what reef offered, it was great. But as you
Know reef was in Utah before and left.the state to boost the attendance. SFW showed what they could do by past experience in Utah. RMEF showed what they could do in vegas. Would the attendance be the same in Utah? They must not have thought so as they moved to Reno then Vegas from Utah. They could not show what they could do in Utah where SFW did. Not saying RMEF offer was not a great offer, but it was a guess.
The other thing was a few years back RMEF came out and said they would give 100% of the conservation tag money back to Utah. Not keep 10%. According to the Der they did not do that. Why did they change their mind.
 
We can all agree that SFW is primarily a Utah-base organization. They've got chapters in other states, but the bulk of their organization is based in Utah. So where does all this money come from? Utah, right?

Does anybody actually believe that the purchase of their outfitting and sheep concessions is funded through money not originating from Utah wildlife? Do you guys really think that money that comes from membership fees or private donations alone?

If I was an SFW member, I'd be ticked and wanting answers. I doubt many guys want their SFW donations, which they believe is being spent to enhance hunting in Utah, being used to purchase Dall and Stones Sheep hunts in Alaska.

SFWs sister-organization, BGF,was already found to comingle funds to a point that auditors couldn't tell where money was spent. (http://le.utah.gov/audit/13_11rpt.pdf) RMEF specifically offered a solution so this wouldn't happen, but DWR wasn't interested. It's disgusting.

PS. Go read the audit's recommendations and the DWR response. The audit recommends BGF be paid only after performance and that State Purchasing work with BGF to prevent comingling of funds. The DWR response is very disturbing.

Grizzly
 
Birdman its disingenuous to suggest that the current expo is on equal footing with other expos. The only reason the expo is what it is today is because of the 200 expo tags. Take away the tags and the expo goes away.
 
Boy, yes people should be paid for work.

Usually coming from profit from a good or service they
Create or perform.

Not from a public resource, not if the funds from this
Public resource are used to grease shady ass politicians
So even more graft and corruption occur.





"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
Hawkeye,

Over time, most of what you have said I agree with; however, I guess I'm glad to see the permits stay with SFW. Here is my reasoning: I'm not a fan of elk and funny as it may sound, I believe the elk and elk hunts are destroying our deer herds through many factors. Right now in several areas the hunts are still going on and most of the deer have been pushed into the fields making contention with the farmers. There are only room in the mountains for a limited amount of wildlife and for every elk you can have several deer.

I can give several reasons why elk are hurting the deer, but more importantly, the main opposition is this, over the years I have seen DWR have totally control. I think they almost single-handed started the spiral downward of the deer herd, if nothing else, for not adjusting and increasing the base deer herds to compensate for the predators which we now can no longer poison and control with other of the old methods. SFW started that listening ear and it is my understanding that the RMEF and the MDF both only would have habitat in mind for their expenditures.

We need a sportsmen group out there as a CHECK to the DWR and willing to wine and dine the politicians. They certainly do things that infuriate me though and I do think they are in bed with the landowners indicated by some of their actions contrary to the benefit of sportsmen. All in all, just helping with only habitat just doesn't cut it for me.

Just a little side note here. I have alway been for the primative weapons, staying away from the inliners. scoffing at those who use them. I just ordered a TC Pro-hunter with a high tech scope and I guess I will practice for yardages starting at 300 plus yards. :)
 
No question that the 200 permits makes for a great expo. That is why rmef wanted them. The fact that SFW has been having them and can say this is what we have done in the past and provide that information and rmef could only show that they left Utah for greener pastures so they could not show what they could do in Utah and only speculate.
As for the British Columbia set ups, yes it was a donation bought by an individual in both cases. That is a fact. No the dues and banquet money does not raise that much to buy one of those. You have no idea what people donate. Attend the exp auctions and the banquets you would see what happens. Might surprise you how generous people are to SFW.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-15 AT 09:54AM (MST)[p]>They don't charge anyone money to
>hunt in those sheep concessions,
>Grizzly???

My point exactly. If it's a business for them, what's the benefit to the Utah taxpayer that is giving them funds to start that business?

Was your business started with government handouts of tags to sell? Are you now a Socialist that wants government freebies just to start a business?

If it doesn't benefit the people of Utah, then no funds from the sale of Utah tags should go towards it... but as I already showed, it's impossible to know for sure.

And if their argument is that they're raising more money to invest in wildlife, at what point do they stop growing side-businesses and start actually putting that money into wildlife? They could spend the next thirty years starting outfitting business. Is that how the money from Utah tags is intended?

Grizzly
 
First off I never said what the cost was, that isn't in my post so don't be putting words in my mouth. The figures of the DWR buying 10,000 and SFW only purchasing 3,400 are right on the DWRs website.

As for pen raised hens, do you really believe that will work? You're releasing own raised chickens into the same situation wild pheasants couldn't even survive and you think they're going to survive? NO. If ou want pheasants you have to have habitat, and Utah is lacking and becoming more lacking in it.

Anyway back to the expo, this isn't where we should be arguing in this thread.
 
Birdman posted: "Hawkeye, the $3.50 you talk about being split now 3 ways, that money SFW gets is going into projects for sportsmen. Not just big game, but fish and upland game. You know conservation tag money can not be used for those. There are always projects going on like turkey transplants going on now in oak city. The pheasants,the tiger musky planting. The tiger musky in Joe's Valley were bought and paid for by some of that money. As you know the rules for the $5 fee must be kept in a separate account where the division can watch."

Response: The DWR's Expo Tag Rule, which the DWR is apparently no longer following, allows the groups to "retain up to $3.50 of each $5.00 application fee for administrative expenses." There is no audit performed of the $3.50 allocated to administrative expenses and nothing in the rule prevents the groups from spending that money on salaries, bonuses, etc. IF SFW truly intended to spend some portion of that $3.50 on actual conservation projects then why didn't SFW make that committment in its proposal? Especially since SFW knew that RMEF was voluntarily committing 100% of application fees to actual conservation projects? The answer is SFW did not make that concession because they did not need to. SFW was confident that it would retain the contract by merely offering the status-quo -- and it was right.

Cannonball posted: "Over time, most of what you have said I agree with; however, I guess I'm glad to see the permits stay with SFW. Here is my reasoning: I'm not a fan of elk and funny as it may sound, I believe the elk and elk hunts are destroying our deer herds through many factors."

Response: I agree that I would like to see improvements in our deer herd. However, nothing in the RMEF propsoal stated that the monies raised from 100% of application fees and 50% of net Expo profits would be used exclusively for elk. To the contrary, it would be used for approved projects in the State of Utah. Those projects would have benefitted a wide range of species, including deer. You mention that you want a "a sportsmen group out there as a CHECK to the DWR." Is SFW providing that to the public? Given what I have seen over the last decade, I believe that we need the DWR to act as a check on SFW. Do you believe this is happening? Thanks for posting.

-Hawkeye-
 
CBall, thanks for your opinion.

Let me respectfully disagree with you.

Elk and deer are managed according to statewide plans developed by a committee made up of land, hunting, agricultural and political interests.

I was on the committee five years ago. As many know I'm all about opportunity.
Peay knew this and invited me to a very nice lunch to discuss this. We basically
Agreed that we could have a mix of opportunity units and super high quality units.
This is determined by age class. I wanted the opportunity units left at the current
Age class and agreed that unless a ridiculous classification was proposed for the other units I would go along.

Comes down to the vote to set classifications at the last meeting and Peay throws out a proposal to raise age class across the board. It was voted on and passed. Myself and Packout were the only two that voted no. I got worked, I was naive and took Peay at his word.

If you believe that Peay or any other group in the Convention or Conservation permit game is going to take money out of their own pockets, you are as naive as I was. Don himself proposed using Conservation permit funds to pay public land grazers to allow for more elk. I agree with you 100% about elk and how they effect deer. The reason we can't kill more of them rests with the tag pimps and the 10% they get from auction permits.

Predators... Time will tell.

Merry Christmas CBall


"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
Bessy,I wasn't complaining about the bird transplant, I to hunt small game and fish. I was however wondering how BIG a success this happened to be , would love to know how many birds harvested.. I e cost per bird... And would like to know from whom the birds were purchased. $160000 is equal to 64000 sportsmans apps. under sfw. It would be either double the chickens or half the app fee with RMEF hmmmmm
 
> Bessy,I wasn't complaining about
>the bird transplant, I
>to hunt small game and
>fish. I was however wondering
>how BIG a success this
>happened to be , would
>love to know how many
>birds harvested.. I e cost
>per bird... And would like
>to know from whom the
>birds were purchased. $160000 is
>equal to 64000 sportsmans apps.
> under sfw. It would
> be either double the
>chickens or half the app
>fee with RMEF hmmmmm


It has been proven over and over again, especially up here in Michigan, that transplanting pheasants is a waste of time and a lot of money. MI even tried using the Sichuan variety that was supposed to easily adapt to the habitat here and that was a big flop. They even eliminated the "put-take" hunts where they raised birds and then let them out like this thread is talking to be shot within a day or two after release. Wyoming has a facility to do the latter and it costs over $20 per bird to raise and release them and that's why it was on the chopping block during budget cuts a year or two ago, but survived.
 
The ultimate resolution to all of this lies at the root.

Bottom line. Find a Legislator that isn't on Peay's payroll
And has a spine, they need to draft a bill or amend code stating
That all monies obtained from Convention and Conservation permits
Will be remitted to the state in full.

No 10% retention for Conservation Permits and sure as chit no
70% retention from Expo app fees.

Definitely a multi year process.

This is also something that should be proposed at every RAC and WB
Meeting regardless of the meeting agenda.



"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
Was their sheep concession purchased with a payment from the state of Utah? Earlier you asked a question as if you didn't know where they get money. Are you saying you know now?
Do you have proof that they are funding another business with missappropriated state funds?

If they are sounds like all you have to do is call the FBI and all your prayers will be answered.
 
Why is so much of the proposal blacked out? Isn't it a public document once it is submitted?

Has anyone seen RMEF's proposal? Is is blacked out?

You'd think SFW was fighting WWII with the censorship.
 
>Why is so much of the
>proposal blacked out? Isn't
>it a public document once
>it is submitted?
>
>Has anyone seen RMEF's proposal?
>Is is blacked out?
>
>You'd think SFW was fighting WWII
>with the censorship.

I'm impressed they didn't shred all copies immediately.
Justin
 
I agree that the DWR is needed for a check on the SFW, but left unchecked the DWR remains the bureaucrats we all give them credit for being. Years ago the sportsmen were the enemy and anything they had to say went against deaf ears. The sportsmen groups, with clout, changed some of that. Hawkeye, you do not have enough whiskers to have seen where the deer herds were to what they are now. To a point I believe, like in politics, you have to have opposing views and to a point that opposition will help the end result. Maybe SFW does have too much control, but they do other things beside just help habitat. Other involvement of strength to help wildlife is very much needed and at this point SFW is the only group that I have seen yet.

I would love to see other group(s) emerge regarding management because SFW is cross-wise from my way of thinking on several views. Mainly, they have lined up the money people and the landowner, not the everyday sportsmen. To be contradictory, they are not a complete friend to any sportsmen who does not have enough money to buy a permit and they would give away our land to private concerns. They would also stop our fishing rights on private property.

That being said I would still back them over RMEF who would do nothing for policy except where it relates to habitat.
 
>Why is so much of the
>proposal blacked out? Isn't
>it a public document once
>it is submitted?
>
>Has anyone seen RMEF's proposal?
>Is is blacked out?
>
>You'd think SFW was fighting WWII
>with the censorship.


They put that up on their own website so they can do whatever they want with it. Once the contract is signed then both bids will be on the public record that can be obtained by anyone and it should have nowhere near that many, if any, as the one they put up on their site.
 
Hey Stone!

There Ain't alot of success to any Reproduction with the Predators we have!

It's Simple Math though!

Somebody has gotta throw a few Birds out or the Guys Buying Pheasant Licenses are totally gonna get SCREWED with NO Chance at a Bird!

Didn't know any numbers until you Guys Posted them!

Just Sayin:

My Son & Others like Him on Their Time,Their Gas,Their Rigs have Donated Time & Money to Try & Help out a little,No they Can't Fix the Problems!

All I was sayin is there are Sportsmen out there that like to Hunt Birds like We like to Hunt Big Game!

If somebody don't throw a few Birds out they wouldn't get Squat!

I have No idea how many are Harvested!

The Deer Herd has been F'D up for 43 years now,what's the chance of Fixing it if it Ain't Happened in the last 43 years?






> Bessy,I wasn't complaining about
>the bird transplant, I
>to hunt small game and
>fish. I was however wondering
>how BIG a success this
>happened to be , would
>love to know how many
>birds harvested.. I e cost
>per bird... And would like
>to know from whom the
>birds were purchased. $160000 is
>equal to 64000 sportsmans apps.
> under sfw. It would
> be either double the
>chickens or half the app
>fee with RMEF hmmmmm








"I'm Living & Dieing with the Choices
I've made!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=N8i5NLyXZdc
 
Hey wiley?

WTH Good are the RAC's it they're over-ruled?

JFP!!!

>The ultimate resolution to all of
>this lies at the root.
>
>
>Bottom line. Find a Legislator that
>isn't on Peay's payroll
>And has a spine, they need
>to draft a bill or
>amend code stating
>That all monies obtained from Convention
>and Conservation permits
>Will be remitted to the state
>in full.
>
>No 10% retention for Conservation Permits
>and sure as chit no
>
>70% retention from Expo app fees.
>
>
>Definitely a multi year process.
>
>This is also something that should
>be proposed at every RAC
>and WB
>Meeting regardless of the meeting agenda.
>
>
>
>
>"The State of Utah has not
>given BGF anything.
>They have invested in BGF to
>protect their
>interests."
>Birdman 4/15/15








"I'm Living & Dieing with the Choices
I've made!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=N8i5NLyXZdc
 
Here is how it works, by an example. We will look at how much each group had as auction tag proceeds in 2013. That had to be spent on conservation projects in 2014.
2013 auction tag revenues $1,083,725
60% required to be reinvested in conservation - $650,235
Actually invested in 2014, per UT DWR - $397,586
Percentage of auction tag proceeds invested in conservation - 37%
It would cause on to ask, "What happened to the other $252,649 that did not get invested?"

These are not my figures. These come straight from UT DWR.

Auction Tag revenues are at this link - http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/conserv...it_revenue.pdf

Amounts reinvested to conservation in 2014 is provided at this link - http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/conserv...t_projects.pdf

So, let's do the same easy math for Mule Deer Foundation. It goes like this.
2013 Auction tag revenues - $971,285
60% of the auction tag revenues required to be reinvested - $582,771
Actually invested in 2014, per UT DWR - $270,874
Percentage of auction tag revenues in conservation, per UT DWR numbers - 32%
Name: Utah_Page_1.jpg
Views: 60
Size: 33.2 KB

Where did the the other $270,874 go that MDF received in auction tag revenues?

Seems like a reasonable question to ask.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 08:46AM (MST)[p]The RMEF proposal has already been posted elsewhere but I wanted to make sure that I also included it in this thread: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wN_VDhjGeEQk5DUWh4ZmQ4X1k/view

You will notice that there are no redactions. Please also keep in mind the following instruction that was included in the DWR's RFP:

"3.1 PROPOSAL FORMAT

Proposals should be concise, straightforward and prepared simply and economically. Expensive displays, bindings, or promotional materials are neither desired nor required. However, there is no intent in these instructions to limit a proposal?s content or to exclude any relevant or essential data."

RMEF followed that instruction. When you view the SFW proposal, you will ntoice that nearly every other page includes a photograph, display or promotional material. My favorite photos are SFW leaders posing with state and national political leaders, MDF's president posing with Governor Herbert, Greg Sheehan (Director of the DWR) giving a speech at the Expo, and John Bair (Chairman of the Wildlife Board) performing acution services at the Expo. You have to wonder what message SFW was trying to convey to the selection committee.

-Hawkeye-
 
>Hawkeye, the $3.50 you talk
>about being split now 3
>ways, that money SFW gets
>is going into projects for
>sportsmen. Not just big
>game, but fish and upland
>game. You know conservation
>tag money can not be
>used for those. There
>are always projects going on
>like turkey transplants going on
>now in oak city. The
>pheasants,the tiger musky planting. The
>tiger musky in Joe's Valley
>were bought and paid for
>by some of that money.
> As you know the
>rules for the $5 fee
>must be kept in a
>separate account where the division
>can watch.
> As for
>what reef offered, it was
>great. But as you
>Know reef was in Utah before
>and left.the state to boost
>the attendance. SFW showed what
>they could do by past
>experience in Utah.
>RMEF showed what they could
>do in vegas. Would the
>attendance be the same in
>Utah? They must not
>have thought so as they
>moved to Reno then Vegas
>from Utah. They could not
>show what they could do
>in Utah where SFW did.
> Not saying RMEF offer
>was not a great offer,
> but it was a
>guess.
> The other
>thing was a few years
>back RMEF came out and
>said they would give 100%
>of the conservation tag money
>back to Utah.
>Not keep 10%. According
>to the Der they did
>not do that. Why
>did they change their mind.
>
I want to provide some clarifying fact for everyone regarding this post by Birdman. I have read these forums for many years but usually just read and laugh and keep my thoughts to myself. I have always tried to steer clear of group bashing because I believe all these organizations have done some good for Utah's wildlife. This post is not meant to bash anyone, including Birdman, but rather provide some clarification on some comments that were made.

I am a member of and have been involved with all of these organizations. When the initial request for Convention permits went to the DWR with the idea of a Western Hunt Expo, the DWR was against it. It took the cooperation and support from five conservation organizations to get the permits. Those organizations were MDF, SFW, RMEF, FNAWS and NWTF. All five organizations were originally partners in what would become the Western Hunt Expo. The RMEF was supportive of and instrumental in getting the 200 convention permits for the purpose of an expo in Utah. The regulation developed at the time did not say the tags had to go to the Western Hunt Expo, rather any expo that would bring revenue to the State of Utah. NWTF and RMEF quickly backed out of the WHE due to the uncooperative negotiations on the part of Don Peay, whom basically wanted more than his share of the proceeds and SFW to be in control of everything.

Prior to the first year of the expo, the RMEF National Convention was in Utah. The RMEF moved their convention because of scheduling and contract conflict with the Salt Palace Convention Center not because they could not make any money or to boost attendance as Birdman suggests. They also left so they could have a National Convention in one State and a partnership in the WHE in Utah as was originally intended at that time.

As far as the RMEF showing what they can and have done in Utah, they provide an annual project summary on their webpage that shows every penny spent in Utah and every project donated towards. They do this for every State and provide a yearly financial summary. Do your research and look it up for yourself. I think this is many sportsmen's biggest beef with SFW is that they spend more time trying to cover up their financial tracks that it would take to be honest and come clean with their finances.

I don't know who you supposedly spoke with at the DWR that said the RMEF has not given back 100% of the conservation permit money but here is another fact for you. Two years ago the RMEF committed to giving back 100% of all conservation permit proceeds. Over the past two years they have given 100% of the conservation permit money back to the State through the PAC project funding process. They are the only organization to do so. Not only that up until this past year they were the only organization to bring additional funding (non tag dollars) to the table for project funding through this process.

Once again I recommend that you do your homework and research before making frivolous claims.
 
Fellow Sportsmen, let me start by thanking all of you for having the desire to be involved. It takes desire and commitment to make things happen. I have seen many comments bashing Birdman and Muley_73 because they choose to support SFW. There is no need for personal attacks because someone chooses to support a different view than your own. I commend Birdman and Muley_73 and several other SFW supporters that have posted and I thank them for putting in the time to make a difference.

There are always going to be differing opinions, those who hate SFW but like RMEF, those that hate RMEF but like SFW. I think the one thing that we could all agree on is that both these organizations as well as the MDF, FNAWS, NWTF, PF, DU and others have all done some kind of work in Utah to make our wildlife habitat and hunting better.

I am 100% certain the RMEF will not file a lawsuit against the State of Utah. Was the process tainted? Definitely, but a lawsuit by the RMEF would be counterproductive to their mission and would not likely change status quo.

Rather than become vindictive and look for vengeance would it not be better to look at ways to correct the current situation? There have been many negative posts concerning Donnie Hunter not recusing himself from the Board Vote. There is no need to go on a witch hunt and target Donnie. Should he have recused himself? Probably, but the DWR needed a quorum of four votes to pass the selection committees recommendation. I am sure the SFW representation (4 of the 7) discussed this and chose Donnie as their sacrificial lamb sort of speak. From what I understood by the DWR employees explanation, one nay vote from any one of the four remaining and voting Board members would have caused the Convention permit program to cease. It wasn't quite clear if the cease would have been for one year only or for the five year contract period. But surely, neither SFW nor the DWR was going to allow that to happen so they has to have four voting members.

Donnie Hunter is a personal friend, and a great guy that has donated countless hours working for our wildlife. He's not the problem here.

I agree with the statements of Hawkeye that the real issue is that one organization has too much representation and that needs to be brought back into balance. I would encourage everyone who takes issue with this to become more involved get sponsorships and apply to be members of the RAC when positions become available. The same goes for the Big Game Board. Become politically involved, talk to your local Senate and House delegates, as well as your County Commissioners and let them know your concerns.

Many of you look at Birdman, Muley_73 and other SFW supporters as potential enemies. Even though I may not agree with everything they say, I look at them as allies in the wildlife conservation effort. I can tell they are passionate and have a fair amount of knowledge. They could be far more influential than maybe even they know. What would happen if you two guys I mentioned got together with a large group of SFW members/supporters and encouraged the SFW leadership to be more open and transparent with their finances? Change can happen when people want it to happen. SFW has the potential to be a great organization and accomplish great things in this State, but I fear if they continue on their current course they will end up bankrupt. No business has ever been successful in taking money from clients without the client knowing what they are getting.

What do you say Birdman and Muley_73? Would you guys be willing to start a campaign within SFW to be more open and transparent, thus creating a better image for the organization and putting to rest many of the concerns people have with them?

As for the rest of you commenting, get organized. If you want to initiate change someone needs to step up and lead the charge. Write letters to the editor, contact local and State media, make people aware of the situation. Hold town meetings and recruit sportsmen in each region that are passionate, capable and willing to step up and serve on the RAC or Big Game Board.

Whether you like them or not, you've got to hand it to SFW because this is what they did to become the politically strong organization they are here in Utah.

If you want change this is the only way I see it happening. How sweet could we have it if SFW, RMEF, MDF and the other groups could all work together for the common goal of improving "Our" wildlife habitat, herds and hunting opportunity! Let's put all the egos aside and start the ball rolling. What do you say folks?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]For awhile now, I thought the average hunter in Utah screwed and said so here a couple years ago. The RMEF proposal was a way to possibly turn that around but then, this as i see it, " hey, just wanted to let you know that the RMEF at the last minute, put in a bid for our tags, a strong proposal".

The other guy, " Yeah, well how dare they play fair. It don't matter, a few of us are getting together for a little think tank session, we'll show them how we play ball in Utah!"

...and so it is done! SFW's war chest is now guaranteed to only get richer, bigger, and more influential, they will be able to push their agenda with little if anything you guys can do about it. I hope not but that's how i see it.

One way some will go, if you can't beat them, join them. This no doubt will turn the stomach of many but it is a option more than a few will take.

God forbid that they end up winning their efforts to take over our public land. You think it odd that their involvement with the sheep hunting up north? Wait until they put up no trespassing signs all around the Henry's and manage those tags as well!

If our Public land were to be given to the States, then you would really see a Peayday-Payday. Those that scratched each others backs the hardest, will have the most to gain. They know this and can't wait until our lands at no cost, are up for grabs.

I'm truly sorry to see this, what happened in Utah. A very sad day for all of us that get out and use public land to with friends and family to relieve ourselves of the day to day stresses and pressure that comes with doing what we do to pay the bills. I believe SFW won't rest until they have their hand in all of it.

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 03:38PM (MST)[p]As we gather around this Christmas season we are so proud to be engaged in an organization that has the values that this great country we call America was founded upon. This RMEF commitment will never lead us away from our mission of habitat preservation and sound wildlife stewardship. We are proud of our accomplishments, and our excited to see what more can be done. If you share the values in the picture below we would ask you to join us as we move forward. Merry Christmas

3680integrity.jpg
 
Hunt4ever-

I personally have not seen anyone bashing Donnie Hunter. I'm sure Donnie is a great guy and has done much for sportsmen and hunting. BHowever, based upon SFW's own materials, he appears to have had a conflict of interest. And if he had a conflict, then he should've recused. I don't care if it would've created an inconvenience for the DWR. You don't bend the rules to accomplish your goals.

My purpose in raising this issue was not to attack Mr. Hunter. It was to highlight the much larger problem ? SFW's overwhelming influence on the DWR and the wildlife bored. The fact that four out of seven board members had significant ties to SFW is indicative of a major problem.

-Hawkeye-
 
I'm sorry I can't support in an organization in any way that is as secretive as they are. Looking at figures last night the 60% they are supposed to spend from conservation permots every year, the full amount has never been accounted for any year. We are talking over $400,000 a year between SFW and MDF that are not being accounted for of required funds. That is right off of the DWRs website from their figures. Where the hell is that money?
 
Thought you might like to know the make-up of the Central RAC--
3 at large - 1 is involved with Utah Bowmens
1 is involved with United Wildlife Coalition
1 is a member of RMEF
4 Sportsmen- 1 is member of different Conservation Groups
1 was a high ranking official of RMEF
1 unknown affiliation
1 is affiliated with SFW
2 Agriculture 1 rancher no affiliation with Conservation Group
1 rancher/farmer no known affiliation with Co Group
2 Public Lands 1 Forest Service2 Non Consumptive 1 associated with Fishing Conservation groups
1 attached with the SLC/Hogle Zoo
1 BLM

1 Native American 1 represents Native American interests

I would say that the RACs have a broad range of interests and viewpoints in regards to wildlife conservation.

In my opinion, what the RACs lack is more public opinions. I know a lot will say that they have gone to a RAC meeting and they don't listen and it doesn't matter what they say. I disagree with that-- Those opinions are just as important as what rep has to say from RMEF, MDF, UBA, SFW, Humane Society, etc. We rely on the observations from local folks in regards to specific units, hunts etc. The more people that will stand up and address an issue, the more legitimate it becomes. You may still not get exactly what you want, but I know of several issues that were turned in a different direction than the original proposal because of regular folks who care enough to get involved- You have to be willing to show up and state your position, no matter what the outcome at the end of the day. Merry Christmas
 
I am one who likes to call out individuals for their corruption. On threads like this most are in agreement that there is Major Corruption in the DWR/SFW relationship. To me the people who seem most responsible are Members of the selection committee for the Wildlife Board and whomever was responsible for drafting the criteria that ensured an SFW win on this matter. I need a little help on this one. Do these people have names? Can they be identified?
 
>I am one who likes to
>call out individuals for their
>corruption. On threads like this
>most are in agreement that
>there is Major Corruption in
>the DWR/SFW relationship. To me
>the people who seem most
>responsible are Members of the
>selection committee for the Wildlife
>Board and whomever was responsible
>for drafting the criteria that
>ensured an SFW win on
>this matter. I need a
>little help on this one.
>Do these people have names?
>Can they be identified?


Email the Division director and see if he will answer you:

[email protected]
 
>In my opinion, what the RACs
>lack is more public opinions.
>I know a lot will
>say that they have gone
>to a RAC meeting and
>they don't listen and it
>doesn't matter what they say.
>I disagree with that-- Those
>opinions are just as important
>as what rep has to
>say from RMEF, MDF, UBA,
>SFW, Humane Society, etc. We
>rely on the observations from
>local folks in regards to
>specific units, hunts etc.
>The more people that will
>stand up and address an
>issue, the more legitimate it
>becomes. You may still not
>get exactly what you want,
>but I know of several
>issues that were turned in
>a different direction than the
>original proposal because of regular
>folks who care enough to
>get involved- You
>have to be willing to
>show up and state your
>position, no matter what the
>outcome at the end of
>the day. Merry Christmas

And how much public input was sought in regards to setting a criteria?

Justin
 
>Thought you might like to know
>the make-up of the Central
>RAC--
>3 at large - 1 is
>involved with Utah Bowmens
>
>
> 1 is
>involved with United Wildlife Coalition
>
>
>
> 1 is
>a member of RMEF
>4 Sportsmen- 1 is member
>of different Conservation Groups
>
>
> 1 was
>a high ranking official of
>RMEF
>
>
> 1 unknown
>affiliation
>
>
> 1 is
>affiliated with SFW
>2 Agriculture 1 rancher no affiliation
>with Conservation Group
>
>
> 1 rancher/farmer
>no known affiliation with Co
>Group
>2 Public Lands 1 Forest
>Service2 Non Consumptive 1 associated
>with Fishing Conservation groups
>
>
>
> 1 attached with
>the SLC/Hogle Zoo
>
>
> 1
> BLM
>
>1 Native American 1 represents Native
>American interests
>
400k a year can do some major back scratching.


Justin
 
> And how much public input
>was sought in regards to
>setting a criteria?

No input was requested or allowed by the DWR when it made the decision to turn away from the process laid out in its own administrative rule and to pursue the formal RFP process. That change was made after SFW had submitted its initial proposal and without any input from the public at the RACs or WB meetings.


-Hawkeye-
 
Hawkeye

I agree with you 100%. I feel Donnie should have recused himself. I was also trying to make the same point. Donnie is not the issue, he is just a pawn for the corruption at the top. Byron and John Bair were too high profile not to recuse themselves so it came down to Donnie and Mr. Dalton. I don't think the DWR or SFW allowed Donnie to recuse himself because they knew what the outcome would be. The entire process began to taint the second RMEF submitted a bid.

The real corruption begins right in the good old Governor's office where the four individuals that did the rating process were hand selected and instructed on how the final outcome would be. It is very apparent based on the proposals and justification.

I also feel 99% of the sportsmen in Utah have common goals: better habitat, more animals, better quality and more opportunity.
 
nebo12000-

I appreciate your service on the Central RAC. However, the problem is that a large number of sportsmen feel like the system is broken. Right or wrong, many sportsmen feel like the process for allowing public comment at RAC and WB meetings is lip service and nothing more. Most of the key decisions are made at at higher levels and behind closed doors without public input or inspite of public input. The DWR decision to change the entire process for awarding the Expo Tag contract without any public input is a prime example.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

-Hawkeye-
 
I would Email the Director if I thought he would respond with an honest answer. Certainly there are people on MM who know who penned the selection criteria.

This person or persons are certainly the ones to blame for this outrageous display of corruption. Whomever penned the criteria document and inserted a sort of Stare Decisis or precedent bias rather than an Innovation Bias into it are the culprit.

Any Professionally Managed organization knows that Innovation is a primary guidepost for making decisions. Had Innovation been properly been used as the bias, if a Bias were to be used at all; RMEF certainly would have been selected.

I submit that the use of any bias in the selection criteria was or should have been illegal. I for one would love to see some of the DWR and its Crony's hauled off to Prison.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-15 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]So---- what laws have they broken that would get them "hauled off to prison" ? Some proof would be required not just your opinion. If what you have is factual and can be proven, I'll stand up for the truth with you.
 
I get your point Nebo12000; not all theft or wrongdoing constitutes a crime. I am not a Lawyer but my opinion is the DWR/SFW relationship is criminal in the same sense that the Olympic Bribery case was criminal. I think it is easy for example to prove the bribery component in that so many of the DWR big wigs and Wildlife Board Members have received free Sheep Tags or Free Sheep hunts.I personally went on a Dall Sheep Hunt at Arctic Red with 3 DWR officials that also went on the hunt for free.
 
>I get your point Nebo12000; not
>all theft or wrongdoing constitutes
>a crime. I am not
>a Lawyer but my opinion
>is the DWR/SFW relationship is
>criminal in the same sense
>that the Olympic Bribery case
>was criminal. I think it
>is easy for example to
>prove the bribery component in
>that so many of the
>DWR big wigs and Wildlife
>Board Members have received free
>Sheep Tags or Free Sheep
>hunts.I personally went on a
>Dall Sheep Hunt at Arctic
>Red with 3 DWR officials
>that also went on the
>hunt for free.

And that folks is exactly why they own that AK outfit so they can grease the Government guys and politicians that lack the integrity to say no way Jose!
 
>nebo12000-
>
>I appreciate your service on the
>Central RAC. However, the
>problem is that a large
>number of sportsmen feel like
>the system is broken.
>Right or wrong, many sportsmen
>feel like the process for
>allowing public comment at RAC
>and WB meetings is lip
>service and nothing more.
>Most of the key decisions
>are made at at higher
>levels and behind closed doors
>without public input or inspite
>of public input. The
>DWR decision to change the
>entire process for awarding the
>Expo Tag contract without any
>public input
is a prime
>example.
>
>Merry Christmas to you and your
>family.
>
>-Hawkeye-

Hawkeye,

On this point I think you are too "nice". We don't "feel" anything. We KNOW its broken. We KNOW that this whole fiasco is nothing more than corruption at the very highest level of the Division. I don't even think you "feel" there is corruption, but I think your more evenhanded and professional than most of us. As a lawyer I don't think you would chase this as long as you have based solely on a feeling, YOU KNOW what the issue is, same as the rest of us. Really the only question is how do we address it, as I see it the corruption goes all the way to the governors office, he did the appointments. Props to you for your years of effort, HOWEVER I believe we have to use truthful language, otherwise we can't address the issue. The Expo process, and for that matter the entire WB process is CORRUPT. Only when we are honest with the definitions can we get to how to address the problem.
 
While we are waiting for the DWR and SFW to sign the Expo Tag Contract so that all of the underlying documentation can be made public, I thought I would take an opportunity to address some of the inconsistencies that have been put forth by the DWR. Although I have volunteered some of my time over the last year helping RMEF through this process, these are my own personal views and opinions. A little background might be helpful.

On the afternoon of September 1, 2015, RMEF hand-delivered to the DWR its application for the upcoming 5-Year Expo Tag Contract. In preparing its application, RMEF carefully followed the DWR?s application requirements, including the September 1st deadline, set forth in the DWR?s own Administrative Rule (R657-55-4). Remember, this is the same rule that the DWR had previously used to award the two prior 5-year contracts to MDF and SFW, and the same rule that was just recently amended by the DWR in January 2015.

Within days after receiving the RMEF application, however, the DWR unilaterally announced that it was changing the process after-the-fact for awarding Expo Tag Contracts. The DWR had apparently decided to move away from the process set forth in its own Administrative Rule (R657-55-4) and move to a formal RFP process conducted by the Utah Division of Purchasing. This sudden change came as a complete surprise to RMEF who had worked for months to prepare a detailed proposal that complied with the requirements in the DWR?s rule. A couple of the highlights of RMEF?s initial proposal were a commitment to bring the RMEF National Convention to SLC for the 5-year term of the agreement and a voluntary commitment to dedicate 100% of the $5 application fees to approved conservation activities in the state of Utah. RMEF politely expressed its surprise and disappointment to the DWR?s sudden change of direction in a press release dated September 11, 2015: http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFConfirmsUtahExpoBid.aspx

In an effort to calm the waters and justify its decision to change the rules after the application period had closed and after receiving RMEF?s application, the DWR issued its own press release on September 17, 2015: http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1723-expo-permits.html The following statement in the DWR press release is particularly troubling:

?Applications from conservation organizations will be accepted through a formal Request for Proposals (RFP) process managed by the Utah Division of Purchasing and General Services. The RFP process was mentioned at six public hearings throughout the past year. A meeting also occurred in October 2014, prior to the public hearings, when the DWR met with many of the state's major conservation organizations and outlined the plan to solicit proposals through an open, competitive process. Attendees at that meeting included the Mule Deer Foundation, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, United Wildlife Cooperative, Utah Bowmen's Association, Utah Foundation for North American Wild Sheep and Safari Club International. The RFP process was most recently mentioned on Aug. 27, 2015 at the Utah Wildlife Board meeting.?

I have two major problems with this statement. First, the fact that the words ?RFP? or ?RFP process? may have been ?mentioned? at a RAC or Wildlife Board meeting does not change the law as reflected in the DWR?s own Administrative Rule. Moreover, the DWR is playing word games. If you carefully review the t minutes from the December 2014 RAC meetings and the January 2014 Wildlife Board meeting you will find some casual references to the phrase ?RFP process.? However, those statements are generally made in the context of a DWR employee describing the existing application process set forth in R657-55-4, which is essentially an informal RFP process. I challenge anyone to identify somewhere in the minutes where Kenny Johnson, the presenter for the DWR, or anyone else clearly stated on the record that ?the DWR is moving away from the existing application process set forth in R657-55-4 and moving to a formal RFP process with the Utah Division of Purchasing.? It does not exist. I personally attended several of those meetings and I can tell you that as a lawyer who was very interested in what changes were being made to the process, I had absolutely no clue that the DWR was moving to an entirely new process.

Second, I take issue with the DWR?s suggestion that it outlined this change during an October 2014 meeting that was attended by representatives of various conservation groups, including RMEF. To be clear, I did not attend that meeting. However, this suggestion is in direct conflict with the following email that was sent by the DWR to the various conservation groups in advance of that meeting: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GVTVtN1IxS3pqVmM

In that email, the DWR notifies the various groups about an upcoming October 23rd meeting to discuss various changes to R657-55 and even included a redlined version of the rule showing the proposed changes. You will notice that the DWR outlined the ?three major proposed changes,? which included the following:

1. Convention Permits would be renamed ?Expo Permits? to avoid confusion with ?Conservation Permits.?

2. Conservation groups would be allowed to extend the 5-year contract for additional 5 years (10 years total).

3. The rule was being amended to require that the conservation groups spend 30% of the $5 application fee revenue on actual conservation projects. This 70/30 split was previously agreed to by the DWR and the groups in 2012 after significant public outcry.

If the purpose of this meeting was to truly to inform the groups that the DWR was moving to a new, formal RFP process don't you think that would have been identified as one of the ?major proposed changes? in the DWR?s email. Plus, the DWR included redlined version of R657-55 showing the proposed changes to the rule. Did the DWR include revised language outlining a new formal RFP process? No. To the contrary, it updated and amended the very same application process that it has used to award the prior two contracts, including Section 3 which required conservation groups to submit applications to the Division between August 1st and September 1st, and Section 4 which spelled out what information should be included in an application, and Sections 6 and 7 which stated the criteria the DWR and the Wildlife Board would consider in awarding the upcoming contract.

So once again, the DWR is playing semantics. The statement in the press release that the DWR ?outlined the plan to solicit proposals through an open, competitive process? during the meeting likely referred to the rule changes being made to the existing process in R657-55. That process is an open, competitive process so long as the DWR administers it as such. Plus, it is the very same process that the DWR used to award the two prior 5-year contracts. And, it is the very same process that the DWR amended just months before RMEF submitted its application. So next time you hear or read a statement that the new, formal RFP process was openly discussed as early as October 2014, did in a little deeper and find out what was really being discussed at that time. Plus, there is a process for changing a law or administrative rule that was not followed here.

One other comment on this issue, once all of the documents are made public, it will be very interesting to see of SFW or MDF submitted an application pursuant to R657-55-4 prior to the September 1st deadline and the DWR?s decision to move to a formal RFP process. If either of those groups submitted an application then that would completely gut the argument that the DWR discussed this change with all of the conservation groups and RMEF somehow just missed this point.


-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-16 AT 08:20PM (MST)[p]I just got off the phone with a young gentleman from the TV station, I think he was shocked that someone from so far away would be interested in this. He says he spoke to his bosses about this subject and the temperament wasn't that strong. Because they and or their viewers aren't that interested in hunting, etc. I explained to him that this is more of a corruption thing. After telling him what site to go to and this post he said he would read all and talk again to his bosses. I also told him to contact Hawkeye if he wanted a more detailed and intelligent view of this subject, as I am just a lonely old carpenter and that I was caught off guard with someone answering my phone call (I thought I would get a voice mail box).

SO GUYS! IT'S NOW UP TO YOU ALL IF YOU WANT THIS STATION TO DO A STORY ON THIS! YOU HAD BETTER RALLY THE TROOPS AND START RINGING THEIR PHONES OFF THE HOOK. IF NOT YOU HAVE NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELVES!
BASICALLY IF THEY DONT GET A HECK OF ALOT CALLS FROM YOU ALL NO STORY!!!!!!!!

NOW! MY WORK IS DONE HERE TONTO!!! LMAO!!!!!!!
JOE

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
BUMP



"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
I also found it interesting that the people who made up the "Evaluation Committee" were DNR DWR folks not independent purchasers for the state.
 
In the Award Justification Statement you will find all kinds of nonsense. The first one I picked out was how RMEF was docked points for its Business Plan because "the proposal lacks documentation to support the claims, Does not give a detailed description of the venue, The proposal does not indicate if the venue could be secured"....really...really....Because they have no history of conducting the EXPO. How could they have any documentation to support their claims? Projections is all they could provide. Also one could predict that the same venue could be quickly secured after the award was made. Because SFW would no longer be needing the venue.


This kind of nonsense is suppose to form a rational basis for the decision?
 
Trammer,
And why exactly would the SFW not need the venue??? The Expo would still take place and run by the SFW and MDF. This was all about the tags not the actual event.
 

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