nevada elk hunters need to read comments

[piper]

Nevada hunters and mostly those from the Elko area need to read the message- ranchers want Utah elk tags- on the general hunting forum- if some hunters had the attitude that most of these Utah folks have and showed up at the meetings that set elk numbers for the fish and game dept. to follow, there would twice as many elk in Nevada, and more big game of all species

 

[piper]

its actually the message "cattlemen want utah tags now" and I hope some of you Nevada hunters make some comments on this

 

[falloutwest]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-08 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]Oh boy, let me go get my violin and hip boots...........

 

[piper]

so what you are saying is that you dont care about wildlife numbers and habitat? Its mostly the Nevada residents and kids that lose out

 

[falloutwest]

No, what I am saying is that number 1. The idea that ranchers that own grazing permitts are going to get tags is pretty laughable. I was born and raised on a ranch that has a public lands allotment close to 100,000 acres. Are you telling me that someday in the near future that I will be able to get compensation tags for all the deer that reside on that 100,000 acres of public land??? Please! The whole idea, article, proposal, and post you are refering too are laughable and a wast of time.

Number 2. The whole idea that Utah has it right and NV is not managing their wildlife properly and we could have more tags and bigger animals if this, that, and the other thing..... is almost just as laughable. The lone reason Utah is killing such big bulls right now is because they don't kill any!! They give minimal tags in trophy areas resulting in large bull to cow ratios and bulls that get a chance to grow and grow.

So, if you want big 400 class bulls running everywhere, what do you have to do, not kill as many and let them grow. How do you do that, you reduce the number of tags. So then, how does your kid and family beneift when now they have to wait until they are 45 to draw a tag because there are so few given every year?

Listen, I am as big a trophy hunter as the next guy. I killed a 340 class NV bull last year that I am thrilled with. I have two NV bighorn sheep, both make book and one won me a belt buckle. My point with the violin and hip-boots is that everyone wants to wine about how hunting in NV could be so much better. Is it really that bad? Take a look around at all the wild fires and urban sprawl and be thankful its still as good as it is. Then take another second to consider how much ranchers do for wildlife in this state. All the cattle water developments that benefit wildlife, all the cultivated fields that are deer and antelope havens.

I don't know you or anything about you, might be the nicest guy around and the kinda guy I would like to have a beer with, but your origional post was pretty ignorant.

 

[mevertsen]

I think falloutwest hit the nail on the head. NV wildlife habitat is getting destroyed at an alarming rate from so many different sources. I think there is only so much that can be done.

I also agree that we are lucky to have the numbers we do have now, considering the shape of everything right now.

Later,

Marcial

 

[piper]

I am trying to make the point that because of hunter apathy in Nevada, Elk numbers are a lot lower than they should be, how they are managed has nothing to do with it, and they do give a lot more tags in Utah than Nevada, also ranchers get some tags in Nevada as it is, thats not the point, for the most part cattle ranchers run over the hunters In Nevada and hunters let them do it, about 500 thousand cattle in Nevada and maybe 10 thousand elk and 87% public land, about 850 thousand cattle in Utah maybe 70 thousand elk and 60% public land, About 1.5 million cattle in Wyoming about 85 thousand elk and 50% public land, ect.if the habitat is so bad in Nevada how come so many cattle compared to big game? I am not saying run the ranchers out business, they still have ranches in Utah and they still have cattle, but in northeast Nevada things are out of balance and its the Nevada hunters that dont seem to care, they dont show up at any meetings and show little support for wildlife , if Utah hunters were that pathetic there wouldnt be half the number of elk in Utah there is now, its hard to manage for opportunity or trophys if the numbers aren't there, I have a book sheep and a belt buckle too, but that doesn't mean things couldn't be a lot better for others if a few more hunters would only show a little backbone

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

Why don't you worry about your state and let us worry about ours. If it's so BAD quit putting in!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not like there's a ton of water to support tons of elk and were getting burnt every year bad! I think We are giving out to many bull tags right now and we need to cut back. But I will go hunt my 180 class buck this week end and my 350 bull elk next mouth. Wait NV is SOOOOOOOOO bad there aren't any big animals here.

 

[falloutwest]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-08 AT 07:04PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-08 AT 05:38?PM (MST)

The main reason NV lacks in elk numbers is because Nevada lacks the habitat! It's the most arid state in the country! Maybe its 87% public land but half of that is desert sheep country! With the exception of north eastern, east-central, and central Nevada, where else is there elk habitat? The vast majority of places that can hold elk in Nevada already have elk. If Elko county is so void of elk then why are they constantly spilling over into Humboldt County? Why is it that every year, elk from the Wildhorse, Jarbidge, Independence areas wander across the Owyhee and end up in the Santa Rosa's? And what happends to them when they get there, they die. Why? Because the Santa Rosa's are not elk habitat. Happens almost every single year. I can go back and find pictures from the 1980's of NDOW biologists standing next to dead bull elk in the Santa Rosas. Nobody is killing them, nobody is doing anything to them, yet they can't establish a population there because they don't have the habitat! Yes, as a whole they kill more elk in Utah but not in the LE areas where they are killing 400 class bulls they don't. I would imagine that the main reason people don't go the the Elko County game board meeting is that they don't want to listen to you. Almost every Moutain Range in Elko County north of Interstate 80 has elk. They are opening new elk areas every other year where elk have established themselves and now represent huntable numbers. The fricken Rubies has a depredation hunt that is now producing 370 class bulls, a fricken depredation hunt. You need to get off your high horse and stop pretending ranchers are ruining elk hunting. Half the elk habitat in Nevada wouldn't exist if it wasn't for ranching. Stop letting your political views interfear with your brain function or better yet, move to Vegas where you will fit in better.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

THANK YOU falloutwest!!!!!!!! you Utards need to get your noses out of the air!!! Like I said it's not like there's alot of water runing around!

 

[piper]

I don't live in utah, and the elk are being managed for low numbers in Elko county because of politics, not habitat, the depradation hunt in the rubys is pure politics,most herds of elk in Elko county are being held at far lower numbers than the habitat will support, If some of you want to get upset and get defensive thats fine, but I was hoping that some hunters would study the elk issue in Nevada and show up the next time meetings are being held to set the managment of numbers of Elk, the fish and game has gotten very little support in the past on this issue and thats a loss for hunters, you do not need to tell me about Nevada I know much of that state very well

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

I have asked the same thing Why are there not more elk in the rubys. But if you look at it from both sides the elk will start to take over and well lose a lot of good deer country. I would go to the meetings but never know where or when thay are.

 

[falloutwest]

Unfortunatly, that's the nature of any wildlife management be it elk, deer, salmon, or spotted frogs. There are always multiple partys involved and there will always be politics. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I think elk are in good shape in Elko county and NV as a whole. There are many factors involved in elk management and the State agreed to keep heards at certain numbers when the animals were reintroduced (or in many cases introduced). Nevadan's have had, and still have some of the best Rocky Mountain Elk hunting in the world. I am fortunate to be able to go on yet another NV elk hunt this fall with a cousin that drew a tag and I can't wait. Be happy it is what it is, I'll post some pictures of another big NV bull later this fall.

 

[bearman]

I know this is a bit late on this topic but I want to throw something in. The elk numbers in Nevada could be a lot higher, in north eastern part they are at one tenth that the original study shows there can be. Ranchers hurt water as much as they help! The Elko county wildlife meetings are posted on NDOW.org and are held at the court house. And Nevada hunters need to take more interest in wildlife management. I am a complete wildlife activist but on the flip side most ranchers are great people and care about the land although there are some that think the public has no say in what should happen on public land. With all the bunny huggers out there against grazing on public land altogether ranchers should start thinking about working with sportsmen and not against them. We could all get more done together then fighting with each other.

 

[lvgrizfan]

Falloutwest nailed it "The main reason NV lacks in elk numbers is because Nevada lacks the habitat! It's the most arid state in the country!" I grew up in Montana, moved to Nevada and have been hunting here for 15 years, I wouldnt trade hunting in Nevada for hunting in Montana any day (Elk & Mule deer that is)we have so much freedom to hunt here, in Montana where 65 of the good hunting ground is on private land, if you dont have the cash or know sombody you dont hunt. Look up the last 10 years and compare Nevada with Montana, Colorado, Wyoming---Nevada over 10 years 70% of the Bulls taken were 6 points or bigger, Montana 30%. Nevada has big bulls, keep the tags low, let the bulls get big. Most of the big bulls taken in Utah come from the SW Desert, which is impossible to get a tag for that area and thats why, low tag holders.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

I think you and others hit it on the head. But there is one area that like the post above said could hold more elk. 102-108 mostly 101 and 102 have the habitat but if you start letting the elk grow in numbers the deer herd would most likely go down as well. But I do think they should get more elk in there.

 

[piper]

the rubys south of harrison pass do not need to be a depredation hunt, north of there is debatable, could have a lot of trouble with ranchers, unit 065 is where there should be some elk, not much deer habitat there but lots of elk habitat thanks to fires, what has low elk numbers got to do with older age class bulls? low hunter numbers and less hunter pressure is mostly what matters, most of the big bulls in Utah do not come out of the SW desert, sorry to pick on you but where do you get such ideas? there is plenty of habitat for more elk in nevada, hunter apathy is a big problem espessally in Elko county

 

[mevertsen]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-08 AT 02:03PM (MST)[p]About 065. I have talked several times with the Biologist for that unit. Russell (don't ask me to spell his last name). Right now there are a little over 40 elk in 065. The herd there is small and growing just a little bit at a time. There is a population objective for 065 set at 200 animals. When that was set, it was agreed between the ranchers and NDOW that no elk would be introduced by NDOW or anyone else, and that the elk would be allowed to establish themselves in that unit. I am sure when the herd gets somewhere closer to 100, and can support a hunting season, then there will be a hunt open up.

Most of the habitat is taken in NV for elk. The big issue is the water, and there isn't a lot.

Later,

Marcial

 

[GrezzeeBulls]

Piper

the state record P&Y typical for utah is still out of southwest desert

Can I get a "NBC chime" for the "more you know commerical"

 

[piper]

Im glad to hear there are a few elk in 065, they would have a hard time getting there from other herds, across I80 and the overgrazed cortez mnts or the depradation hunted rubys, actually if you read the report put out on the carrying capacity of most of the Elk units in Elko county you will see the habitat will support many more elk and the population objective would be higher now if some sportsmen would have shown up when the meetings were held, Utah would not have the elk herd numbers they have today if it werent for the hunters, I dont know what makes Nevada hunters not seem to care and show up? at one time Elko county had the second most cattle of any county in the US, there must be some water there somewhere and I would guess there are still 40 or 50 cows to every elk in Elko county, the habitat there increasingly favors elk and antelope its about 60% public land and the deer numbers are not even close to what they used to be, my point is sportsmen should study the issue and be heard if they want hunting opportunity in the future

 

[lvgrizfan]

Hey Piper read this:

The 1981 edition of Boone and Crockett's big-game records for North America listed 29 Utah entries among 311 listings for typical deer and 22 Utah entries among 205 listings for nontypical deer.

There was not a single listing among 360 entries for typical American elk or as many for nontypical elk.

In the latest Boone and Crockett rankings, Utah has more than 100 trophies listed in the top 700 typical elk, including Fourteen in the top 100, and sixteen trophies among 200 nontypical elk listings, including five in the top 100.

Seven of which were taken in the SW Desert area of Utah in the last 10 years.

Thats almost one a year in an area that gives out what two non resident tags and very few resident tags for the early hunt.

 

[piper]

thats a success story for Utah for sure, I remember my grandfather telling me about transplanting elk from yellowstone to a place called Jolleys hole, there were no Elk in Utah then, outside of the Uinta mnts,it was tough the ranchers were pretty upset but sportsmen prevailed, and look at all the good experences many thousands of people and their families have enjoyed because of that effort, Im just guessing here but I bet the Pahvant area in Utah has produced the most B+C bulls of any single unit,I had a tag there in 94 and didnt get one of them, but it was the best elk hunt of my life

 

[mevertsen]

Overgrazed Cortez Mountains? Thats kinda funny. Those mountains are in my back yard and sure don't look over grazed to me. I have seen places that are overgrazed, and the Cortez Range is not one of them.

And the ability of elk to get across I-80 is really not that much of a feat.

I think most sportsmen are happy with the elk in NV, and are actually wanting more deer, which just can't happen with the dynamics of the habitat right now. You don't see anything written about why elk are having problems, its all about deer. Elk are doing fine.

Also, there are a lot of cattle in NE Nv. Thats what has kept this area alive before the mining booms. Read the history, cattle and sheep ranching is here and will be for a long time. When people stop eating beef, then maybe the elk can take over.

Later,

Marcial

 

[piper]

yea the over grazed cortez mountains,mostly all the wild horses, Ive seen places where the bitter brushs plants look like bonsia trees, look at the rivlit of mud called frenchies creek, there are places on and around the Dan ranch that look like a neutron bomb has been blasted, sagebrush stripped of all the branches, Ive seen thorn bushes that look like they belong in the himalayan foothills in Asia where goats barely survive, go ask a wildlife biologist for that area what they think

 

[jeffnvegas]

with all of the new wilderness areas and the proposal of more wilderness areas, it won't matter anyway cause only ranchers or wanna be cowboys and outfitters with weed free fed horses will be able to hunt them. that should cut down on the success rate of all big game animals that are taken and give the outfitters pretty much exclusive hunting rights to all big game. soon it will be no vehicles and no ATV's anywhere.
with five bonus points for deer and my son having 2 i figure maybe this year we will have a chance to hunt for the first time as a party and actually be able to go out in the field and hunt the same species at the same time. he actually didn't get a tag for 2 years as a junior hunter.
now all we will need next is for the gov't to make the sage hen an endangered species and the rest of the lowland hunting areas will be off limits.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

more wilderness areas. YES!! I can't wait.

 

[D13er]

>more wilderness areas. YES!! I can't
>wait.

Be very careful what you wish for....

JB

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

why so