North Kaibab proposed to be a National Monument!

DonMartin

DonMartin

Very Active Member
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Well I hope all you guys can put away your differences long enough to address something I just found out about.

One of my Board of Supervisors, Gary Watson, sent me a document on Friday entitled, "Conserving the Grand Canyon Watershed, A proposal for National Monument Designation."

This document and proposal is being proposed by the Center For Biological Diversity, Public Lands Campaign Director Taylor McKinnon, Grand Canyon Wildlands Council, Conservation Director Kim Crumbo, and Nicole Layman, Western Lands Campaign Associate.

These are the areas listed as part of the Grand Canyon Watershed that is proposed for listing as part of the National Monument designation.

"Five distinctive and diverse geographic areas comprise the proposed Monument: The Kaibab Plateau, the Kaibab-Paunsagunt Wildlife Corridor. Kanab Creek Watershed, House Rock Valley, and the South Rim Headwaters,...." (Page ii)

The total proposed monument would be 1.7 MILLION acres!

This is about a 20+ page document. I can send it to you via e-mail. Just send me your address to [email protected]

According to the document, "National monument designation for the Grand Canyon Watershed would: Permanently protect old growth forests, protect native wildlife habitat and wildlife corridors, protect archeological sites and traditional tribal access, reduce road density, provide for voluntary retirement of grazing permits, prevent new uranium mines." (Page iii)

Of particular interest to me was the reference to mountain lions in no less than four times, but also bears- black and grizzly, who are mentioned no less than three times! And here are some of the statements that are listed in this document. ""Black bear one inhabited the North Kaibab, as did grizzly bear and gray wolves."(Page 8) "A luck visitor might catch a glimpse of an occasional black bear roaming the forest once haunted by gray wolves, jaguars and the mighty grizzly bears." (Page 2)

Wolves are mentioned at least FOUR times in the document, What about this statement? "National monument designation can explicitly emphasize protection and and restoration of viable and ecological effective native wildlife populations by calling on both the Secretary of Agriculture and Secretary of the Interior to expeditiously authorize a scientifically credible analysis of the current and protected status of keystone species including the Kaibab squirrel, goshawk and mountain lions, as well as an analysis regarding recovery of extirpated wildlife such as bears and wolves." (Page 4)

I go on and on but you got to read this for yourself. I think what they want is very clear.

Does anyone else see the words, black bears, grizzly bears, jaguars, lions, and wolves as red flags?

Can there be any doubt as to what this is all about?

Get the proposal, read it, and send it to 100 of your friends.

These same folks are well aware of all the infighting that is still unfortunately going on among sportsmen over HB2072.

You think the timing is this is purely coincidental?

Right now we (sportsmen) seem to be a rag tag, disorganized group who are still hell bent on eating our own.

If we don't get together, and do it quick, and this goes through, we will lose forever another crown jewel of Arizona heritage and Arizona's wildlife!

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
Kingman, AZ
928-303-9481
 
Worse than I thought. They are trying to get Obama to designate the national monument by executive order. You think he would like to get back at Arizona for being such an embarrassment to him? We have a problem!
 
we need to contact our congressmen and everyone we can to get this held up then stopped. this is very very important. this would be the beginning of the end of hunting on the kaibab.......don't sit back and wait, send out emails, letters and phone calls now................. Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
I agree. This is beyond just a local issue. We will need to involve the "big guns" so to speak. Local groups can only go so far. NRA, NWTF, USSA...etc will have to help us.

Write your Senators!
 
This is a federal issue so contacts will be our national representatives. National orgs will have to take up the fight, that's what they are there for.

Kent
 
Unfortunat;y our federal legislative officials won't be able to do anything. Obama can do it with his signature as he is run out the door. No one could stop Clinton years ago with the assistance of Babbit. Obama will take the liberal low road on this. We need to find out who the CBD is working with (Grijalva).
George
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-12 AT 09:29AM (MST)[p]I had thoroughly read through the proposal and this is a serious issue that we as sportsman need to band together, get as many family and friends and fight this . According to the proposal's Boundary Map, everything East of MT Trumbull road
(County RD 109) , Hack Canyon, Grama, Hancock Knoll, would become all part of the National Monument . All primitive trails, would become closed . All of the Kaibab on the other hand would be a National Monument . This is insane !!!!
I received this proposal via email, and I can forward anyone here the info via email if needs be as well . Just let me know .
 
Yes, not only will it cover the entire Kaibab Plateau Unit 12A), but the east side of Game Management Unit 13A as well.

The plan is there and is obvious; they are trying to make the entire area North of the Colorado River a huge Monument.

I sure don't see this as a good thing for sportsmen.

Don Martin
 
Don, is there a specific email address that we can send and relay our concerns regarding this proposal . I had forwarded the email and proposal to about 400 contacts and some people are already wanting to know if there is a specific email we can send our concerns . This has turned into a media frenzy here in ST George UT . There are a lot of ranchers whom are pretty heated over this proposal !!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-12 AT 11:27AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-12 AT 11:26?AM (MST)

"These same folks are well aware of all the infighting that is still unfortunately going on among sportsmen over HB2072.

You think the timing is this is purely coincidental?

Right now we (sportsmen) seem to be a rag tag, disorganized group who are still hell bent on eating our own."



this only continues to undermind everyone further, don't you think

As far as timing, it may very well be the end of bummers run and they figure to plant the seed now before he gets too involved .



nobody wants this to happen here in AZ. except the greenies.

the president will do what HE WANTS .
we start raising too big a fuss ,that could bite us in the ass as well .

we are past bill 2072 , hopefully but if we do not clean out the infection of azsfw .
we may have to battle these ******* all over agin . We are united to do this before we can look forward.
 
Not sure of where we have a central place to work on.

I was in St. George on Monday-Tuesday and was with Clay Bundy and I know he was fired up over this.

Suggest talking to all our legislators, in Arizona, Utah, Nevada and beyond!

Don
 
The Antiquities Act of 1906 is the first place to start. It is clearly stated in that........

"....... the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area
compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected."

The wording of this Act is our starting point: 'smallest area'

Although this Act is intended for small tracts of land which hold some historic value, unfortunately, past Presidents have used this to designate large tracts of land as National Monuments.

So there is a precedence NOT in our favor.

But, in reviewing this Act, it's been challenged before. Folks in Wyoming and Alaska where able to successfully pass Congressional legislation to either stop it or reduce the size of the National Monument in question.

So there is precedence IN our favor as well.

If Obama feels he's losing the ship come November, a blitzkrieg of executive orders will commence. Unfortunately, if/when that time comes, I'm afraid there won't be anyway to stop him from signing.

Writing Congress and the House of Reps is paramount now!
 
get ah old of united states sportsmen alliance....Google them......send emails to them and all the big orgs like mdf, sci, rmef........send emails and call senators offices......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
From what I heard this did not include the national forest land, which is most of the 12a hunting area we know. The "Center " is always coming up with this type of stuff and they do have some political backing. They have kept several wildlife enhancement projects from happening on federal lands (forest service) over the years by stating things like harm to old growth trees or endangered species needing reintroduced to areas.
 
Clark, you need to review their proposal. It includes the whole Kaibab from Utah down to south of the Grand Canyon. This issue is huge. Have Don Martin forward you the email. This proposed Monument covers all of our hunting area. Road closures seem to be the first step in taking away the right/ability to hunt.

" 1 mile of road per square mile"...that is the wording in the proposal.

The proposal also states that " only 3% of Arizonans hutn".

That is a set up statement to show how insignificant hunting is overall. The next step is to eliminate hunting by shutting down all the roads..........everyone needs to speak up now to stop this.




Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Maybe you should put this in the general forum to get more views.Looks like the greenies and antis are making major moves in Az and Cal!
 
Look at the map in the document! It absolutely includes ALL of the North Kaibab and the eastern side of Unit 13A. 1.7 MILLION acres!

This is a significant assault on the Arizona's sportsmen and our wildlife.

Wolves, bears, lions, jaguars, the hand writing is on the wall folks!

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
 
I have called a few organizations:

SCI 1-202-543-8733
MDF
RMEF

would everyone call as many national organizations that may have Wash. D.C. lobbyist. This really is important to try and stop now before its too late. I assume Don M and others are working this. Call/email all the national orgs including those listed above.........Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
We need to get as many hunters in AZ as we can to put in for the Kiabab 1st choice. Show them how much Arizonans love that place.

Nevermind, dumb idea.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Of the 15 numbered pages, 5 are references...really? I wonder if they had an original thought in the entire proposal.

I think an underlying theme, is these groups think they can do a better job of managing the forest than the Forest Service. Every topic they brought up has a part the forest management plans. For instance, the Travel Management Rule will be implemented sometime in the near future on 12A...that is certainly going to close some roads and further restrict camping, etc near archaeological sites. I guess the option USFS is consider for the TMR are not restrictive enough for these groups.

I know I don't always see the USFS as an ally, do you think it is worth seeking their support? It could be a double edged sword though...they could see it as this group thinks they can do a better job and take offense...or they could just agree with it and jump on board.

What are your thoughts?

JB
 
Steve, you got any ideas on how to stop this?

Next week Supervisor Gary Watson and I are meeting with Paul Gosar to discuss this issue.

Let me know.

Don Martin
 
There can be no doubt that this is a grave threat to all hunters that hope to see our hunting heritage continue in this exceptional and unique region of our state.

The long-range, strategic planning of those forces who would end recreational hunting in the USA and usher in increased restrictions on private firearms use and ownership is frightening. From the ill-advised re-introduction of wolves into the Yellowstone Region under false pretenses, to ongoing struggles with individual management groups within the USFWS that continually push for the introduction of large predator species throughout the west and beyond, to struggles to keeping waterfowl hunting an ongoing activity within the Refuge system; now we have a concerted effort to make the Kaibab, the "Paunsaugunt corridor" & portions of the Strip a "Monument".

The question put to those of us who are passionate about our hunting heritage is..."what are we prepared to do?"
 
I spoke with Melissa Simpson--Safari Club Lobbyist in Washington D.C. She is on top of this and will be talking with Larry Voyles--AZGFD then she will get a game plan to combat this. All of us still need to contact all the big organizations like RMEF, MDF etc....to ensure lots of lobbyists are attacking this issue.......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
I contacted my state and federal senators & congressmen. I got a phone call back from Rep Schweikert as well as state rep Lynne Pancrazi. Both were grateful to have info and are looking into it.

JB
 
Awesome guys!

I sure wish I would hear something from the AZ G&F Dept and the Commission. They got to know about all of this and they got to know just how large this threat is, so why haven't they come out and said something and let the public know what is going on?

Same goes for Governor Brewer. Why hasn't she weighed in on this?

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
 
Don,
I spoke w/ Luke Thompson regarding this matter . The AZG&F is very well aware about this proposal . This Monument Proposal will not be effecting there jobs any, so it seems they have no care in the world . In fact, he mentioned when they established the
Parashant Monument , it had created additional management projects . The only thing he seemed to complain about was the additional paper work . Luke says the only thing that will effect us sportsmen is access to certain areas due to trail closures . But he did state that there still a long way for this proposal to become approved due to a # of Studies involved and a lot of organizations are aware of this who are opposed and has been relaying there concerns .
 
I received a couple more responses. MDF said they are now aware, opposed, and are working with some folks in AZ to see where they can get engaged.

The NRA-ILA said they are aware and will keep an eye on it. If it has the potential to restrict hunting, they will certainly get the word out.

JB
 
Just spoke with Miles Moretti of MDF. He is working on this issue along with Melissa Simpson of SCI. They suggested we as local voters put some pressure on Gov Brewers office to get her involved. email/call/write letters immmediately to get something going at the local level.......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
I agree that Gov. Brewer should be on top of this, but I got to believe that she knows about it. How come G&F Commission hasn't spoken out yet? What the heck they waiting for?

Don Martin
 
Don,

One of the folks I sent the proposal on to was Ron Sieg, G&F Region II supervisor. He said they had received a copy of the proposal "sometime back" and that this week it would be presented to the Commission for their information as well.

Perhaps we'll hear something from the Commission late this week?

JB
 
I received another new reply this afternoon from Congressman Gosar. He said he shared my concerns and provided some other interesting information.

"In general, the ability to set aside federal land rested with Congress; however the presidential power to establish national monuments on federals lands was established via the "Antiquities Act of 1906." The law was enacted over concerns about protecting mostly prehistoric Indian ruins and artifacts?collectively termed "antiquities "?on federal lands in the West. By definition, the sites were to be very small?"the smallest area compatible" with preserving the antiquity."

"According to a U.S. Interior Department memo that was leaked last year, the current administration is considering new national monument designations totaling 13 million acres in 11 western states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wyoming."

"Congressman Jeff Flake and I have even introduced legislation, H.R. 2877, the "Arizona Land Sovereignty Act," which would ensure no further extension or establishment of national monuments in Arizona can be done without the authorization of Congress. This legislation would be a step toward making the public a part of land designations process that affects them."

From the sounds of it, he seems to be on board with our opposition to this monument. I like the fact he cited and is correctly interpreting how the Antiquities Act was intended. 1.7 million acres certainly does not sound like a small area.

Don, I am interested to hear how your face-to-face meeting goes with him.

JB
 
The meeting with Congressman Gosar today was very informative. He is a smart guy and he is absolutely on top of this issue.

I am really interested in the meeting Mohave County Supervisor Watson and I have tomorrow at 8 a.m. with Mr. Crumbo from the Grand Canyon Wildlands Council.

I'll let you all know how that goes.

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
 
This is some scary shat. This kind of thing is right up Obama's alley, he'll sign it as soon as he gets it.
 
hate to say it. all of you crying wolf for some real meat and bones to stop the issue, even stooping down to having lobbyists in washington and local/state government agencies step up for you. well, alan hamberlin and his organizational skills with azsfw was not as far off based as some of you might think. yes lobbyists do have a lot of pull. and yes, it will be important in the future to have lobbyists working for all sportsmen across the west to combat these repulsive ideas. i'm not saying that others orgs don't get it done. i am saying that it takes money to fund, yes, lobbyists that act in your interests... how that money is raised is a hot topic. however, eventually all sportsmen must concede that lobbyists must be used to combat such legislation.
 
billy. you seem to intertwine your thoughts. lobbyists are necessary, but only to voice the sportsmens concerns, not take up positions of policy making like azsfw did. as for this issue, sci, mdf and other org have lobbyists working on this monument proposal. why not leverage off our existing strengths instead of making a new redundant group???? Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
bura,

i agree with you about lobbyists and voicing the opinions of the sportsmen. my post wasn't to praise to azsfw. it is to make the point that lobbyists cost money, sometimes a lot. in order for sportsmen in az. and the west to have their voice heard on a level that can make a difference at the federal and state levels, they will need good lobbyists. in order for a 501c org to get a lobbyist that will make things happen on these levels their must be funding to secure this interest. an excellent way to get funding to pay, yes pay, a team of great lobbyists is through tag sales of big game. my point is they were not that far off based with their idea. the way they went about it and the amount of tags they demanded was to their detriment. this notion that sportsmen are going to band together and get their voice heard is all smoke and mirrors w/o funding. the MDF, AES, and RMEF with raise some hell i'm sure, but at some point they will run out of funding to pay their lobbyists or they will have to pull funds from wildlife projects and use them for lobbyists. it's a budget issue. my guess is that RMEF and MDF will in the end have the most pull b/c, oops i said it, they raise the most money through big game tag auctions. yep, MDF auctions several tags at the SFW big game expo in Salt Lake City every year. do you have any other ideas with how to raise monies that can combat this crap? AZGFD will not be a viable option. they look out for this crap, not fight it...
 
I mentioned this once, leveraging off our existing strengths. many org already have the staffing already, like sci, mdf, rmef etc.....why not affiliate with these groups and make use of their lobbyists?.....it would seem that this could be efficient and send more money to the ground......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Bura, this isn't about MDF, RMEF, or any other org. do you understand that. it's about the idea of fundraising. how do you think MDF et. al can fund these lobbyists and continue to improve habitat, etc. w/o more funding? they will need more money to combat these issues.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-12 AT 10:39PM (MST)[p]I haven't seen anyone mention the United States Sportsmen's Alliance. They are the big dogs in every fight for sportsmen across this country.
 
It always seems to get back to how we need the free tags to save our future and AZSFW is the only org that can do it right. I can't believe people still are pushing that garbage after the skinning they took. If we have to give up tags to an organization that just tried to screw all of us then I will never support that one. It is not a fact that we have to have a lobbyist to survive. We just turned the tag mess around by grass roots work and we can do it with this issue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-12 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-12 AT 09:58?AM (MST)

so sick of hear this chit that sfw raffling auction tag mooney will solve everything

only if 100 % of the funds is given to the correct people , not someones pockets

sfw is a scam

just like the azsfw , we ask for past records - its only 6 yrs , we ask for finacial statements to show where the money is gone , we get nothing !we just ask for past meeting minutes - THERE ARE NONE

how do you think sfw /azsfw will stand to any kind of audit to show exactly where ALL the nmoney went!??

any g&F department has these regularly.

as far as the National monument etc. they have need trying for wolf introduction since 04, they see now is the time when we have a dsbummer in office. they try this stuff all the time.

yes it would be nice to find a way around this crap but when its just a signature away, and we have an unperdictable bum who has the final say

lobby against what / the whimm of an idiot?
 
muley and other guy,

you guys are clearly missing my point.

1. i never said SFW is the savior and "HAS" to be the org. that get this money to fight the battles of the future.

2. MDF and RMEF get most of their money from these "raffle/auction" tags already. what i am saying is they can't win both battles with the money they have. they will need more money to fight those that are trying to take so much away. you guys think a tag in every unit is a lot, wait until there are wolves eating thousands of elk throughout the state every year and well see how much opportunity has be sapped from the sportsmen.

3. i guess we disagree on how to fight a good fight against these orgs that strive so hard to take so much away. "grass roots" hah, sounds like rick santorum. he's on the sidelines now.
 
Lobbyists are fundamentally corrupt people by the nature of their profession. You don't think grass roots works then ask AZSFW and George Taulman. They might disagree right now. I don't believe in bedding down with immoral people and avoiding mirrors just to accomplish a goal.
 
BTK said the following in thread post No. 46: "MDF and RMEF get most of their money from these "raffle/auction" tags already."

Really BTK? This is fact BTK? You say it as if it is a fact, so you must have proof. Please show me the proof that backs up your statement. Thank you in advance for proof that this is a factual statement.

PS: If you spent as much time contacting your representatives about these kinds of issues instead of always ?lobbying? the ?tag-grab model?, just imagine the good you could do. Way to hijack an informative and constructive thread!
 
Billy, this is a waste of time trying to talk over the computer. This specific issue "kaibab national monument" is being fought right now with national organizations. Nobody from AZ is going to fly out and meet with Pres. Obama from AZ. As to the future needs of funds, nobody has disagreed that funds will be needed. You continue to bring up Alan Hamberlin and his methodology. I will for the last time submit this thought: "leverage off the existing strenghths". What I mean is this, if we already have lobbyists in place with SCI/MDF/RMEF then lets partner with them to SAVE some money and not duplicate services. As to additional fundraising, that will be done through existing and new wildlife orgs like ADA, AES, AAF etc..... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
>The meeting with Congressman Gosar today
>was very informative. He is
>a smart guy and he
>is absolutely on top of
>this issue.
>
>I am really interested in the
>meeting Mohave County Supervisor Watson
>and I have tomorrow at
>8 a.m. with Mr. Crumbo
>from the Grand Canyon Wildlands
>Council.
>
>I'll let you all know how
>that goes.
>
>Don Martin
>Govt Liaison
>Mohave Sportsman Club

Don,

So how did the meeting with Mr. Crumbo go?

JB
 
Schedules didn't work as planned. We are going to try to meet this Wednesday here in Kingman.

I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say.

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
MSC
 
Don pm sent


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I just read the whole document and I am VERY concerned to say the least. I know several people who hunt the area and are trying to hunt the area, myself included, that would be devastated if this went through. Please let me know how we, Nevada sportsmen, can help in getting this stopped.

Kevin
 
I am new to this forum and have never hunted for mule deer but I want to in the next few years but I though most of you should know that ALL of your laws are drafted by lobbists. (I dream of huntinf the strip or kaibab so this really worries me.) The reason I know this is that my Uncle is a state rep in MI and I worked on his staff. So before you call all lobbists corrupt or evil realize that they are the only ones directly contacting the reps. You can call and email all you want but the reps very seldon read any of those things directly. My job was to field calls/emails and then organize them by topic and were people stood on that issue. Never send form letters they are not even read. Always tell them you live in there district (then they think you are voter). The rep gets most info from lobby groups and they are the only ones on are side. I will gladly give tips on how to contact your rep and have the most effect. I would reccomend that Guides and ouffiters contact there reps. Anything Jobs related always perks their ears. Hopefully we can get this stopped before it goes to far.
 
Steve: The Mohave Sportsman Club is onboard with this and I'm trying to get a suitable .jpeg logo for you guys to use.

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
 
Don,
I talked with Steve, MSA Pres, and he signed on the letter. You guys are signed on the original.
Thanks
Steve

If there are any other groups that would like to be represented on these types of letters please feel free to email me. Also if you want to unite under this name and banner let us know. Groups can use the header and have other groups sign on their letters.
[email protected]
The more groups unite the stronger our voice will be.
 
Glad to see that the AZ G&F Commission weighed in on this.

They don't support it and I suspect the majority of AZ sportsmen don't either.

Course we as sportsmen and women are a big "minority" here in AZ so let's hope that by banding together in a common cause, we can put forth our best effort.

Way to go AZ G&F Commission! Well done!

Don Martin
Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
 

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