Notable Republicans. . .

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-06 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]After hearing of the resignation of Mark Foley, I started thinking about all the other conservative Republicans in recent years who have been caught with their pants down.

Now an exhaustive list would be more than any one person could possibly handle. So I decided to limit my search to members of Congress (no congressional aides or local Republicans) who have either admitted to misconduct, or have had allegations substantially corroborated by other sources.

I also put a 25-year statute of limitations on my search, so Warren G. Harding is off the hook.

Bear in mind that this list includes only proven cases of sexual misconduct against Members of Congress. Old-fashioned corruption or, say, getting 2,700 American troops killed in Iraq for no damned good reason, does not make the list. If I've left out any of your favorites, please post them.


Robert Barr (R-GA) A co-author of the "Defense of Marriage Act," Barr has been married three times and sued more than once for non- payment of child support. During his third married, was photographed licking whipped cream off strippers at an inaugural party.

Robert Bauman (R -MD) - A staunch moralist, notorious anti-gay activist, and four-term member of Congress, Bauman surprised his constituents by being arrested for soliciting sex from a sixteen- year-old boy.

Jim Bunn (R -OR) - After winning election to Congress in 1994 with the help of the Christian Coalition, Bunn then divorced his wife (and mother of this five children), and then married his mistress, giving her a job as his Chief of Staff and a nearly six-figure salary to boot.

Dan Burton (R -IN) - Called Bill Clinton a "scumbag" for his marital infidelities, before voters learned that Burton had himself fathered a child out of wedlock in the early 1980's. The mother was given a no-work job on Burton 's campaign payroll.

Ken Calvert (R -CA) A family values advocate elected with the help of the Christian Coalition, he's been sued for alimony payments by his ex-wife and was arrested for soliciting a prostitute - specifically the arresting officer caught Calvert in the act of receiving oral sex in his parked car.

Charles Canaday (R -FL) One of the House Impeachment managers while on the House Judiciary Committee, Canaday engaged in an adulterous affair with a married woman, breaking up her marriage. Canaday has since been appointed to the Florida Court of Appeals by Jeb Bush.

Helen Chenowith (R -ID) Said on record that "personal conduct and integrity do matter" with regard to Bill Clinton's sex life, but was somewhat more lenient when she admitted in 1998 that she had been engaged in a long-term extra-martial affair with a married man.

Dan Crane (R -IL) A rising star of the New Right, Crane was censured by the House in 1983 for having sex with a seventeen-year-old page. It marked the first and only time a member has been censured for sexual indiscretion. Some members have the House wanted to expel Crane, but Henry Hyde (R-IL) (see below) rose to his defense.

Duke Cunningham (R -CA) You thought it was just about money? Think again. As many as a half dozen Republican lawmakers have been implicated in receiving the services of prostitutes hired by the contractors who bought off Duke Cunningham. An FBI investigation is ongoing.

Thomas Evans (R -IN) Served three terms in the House, but was defeated after he was linked to lobbyist Paula Parkinson, a young woman who admitted that her lobbying technique was limited to having sex with just about anybody who asked.

Newt Gingrich - (R -GA) Received oral sex from mistress Anne Manning in a parked car within sight of his own children. Married three times, with the first two marriages ending because of Gingrich's infidelity.

Tim Hutchinson (R R-AK) A Baptist minister and vociferous critic of Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky affair, Hutchinson was simultaneously having an affair with one of this staffers. Hutchinson divorced his wife of 29 years to marry his mistress.

Henry Hyde (R -IL) Another of the Republicans who took Bill Clinton to task for having an extramarital affair, it was later learned that Hyde himself had been engaged in a long-term affair - which Hyde called a "youthful indiscretion" even through he was over forty at the time.

Bob Livingston (R -LA) Briefly the Speaker of the House after Newt Gingrich's resignation, Livingston was caught up in Larry Flynt's "dragnet" of Republican sexual indiscretions and resigned himself before stories of his marital infidelities were published.

Donald Lukens (R -OH) Was caught by a Columbus, OH television news crew meeting with the mother of the teenaged girl with whom he'd been having sex. Lukens was convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor but refused to resign his seat in Congress. Finally resigned after he was
caught groping a Capitol Building elevator operator.

Sue Myrick (R -NC) A self-described "devout Christian," Myrick admitted that she had an extramarital affair that lead to the break-up of her husband's first marriage. When peppered with questions about the affair during a radio call-in show, Myrick stormed out of the studio saying, "I don't have to put up with this #####."

Robert Packwood (R -OR) One of the most notorious serial gropers in the history of the United States Congress, Packwood resigned his seat after dozens of women came forward saying that they had been molested by Packwood, some of them in elevators in the Capitol Building.

John Peterson (R -PA) Has been accused of sexual harassment (including fondling and forced kissing) by six women, including Capitol Hill lobbyists and House Interns. In the 2004 Election, Peterson was re-elected without opposition.

Don Shorewood (R -PA) A staunch supporter of family values, Shorewood, a four-term member of the House of Representatives, admitted to a five year affair with a woman who is not quite old enough to be his daughter (she's thirty-five years younger). His admission came after he settled a lawsuit with his former mistress, who accused Shorewood of physical abuse.

John Schmitz (R -CA) A member of Congress and member of the John Birch Society (who eventually kicked him out for his "extremism"), Schmitz fathered a child out of wedlock. Schmitz is also the father of Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who was convicted of statutory rape for having sex with one of her students.

Ed Schrock (R -VA) Another vociferous opponent of gay rights and gays in the military who, it turns out, is gay himself. Schrock declined to seek a third term in the House when audiotapes of his voice on a gay-sex chat line were make public.

Strom Thrumond (R -SC) Nicknamed "The Sperminator" by aides for his pursuit of female staffers and lobbyists, Thurmond fathered a child out of wedlock with his family's African- American maid - while Thurmond himself was a staunch segregationist.

J.C. Watts (R -OK) - A winner of the Christian Coalition "Friends of the Family Award," it was later disclosed that Watts has two children fathered out of wedlock with two different women while serving as a Youth Minister in Oklahoma.


Now, I'm not saying, I'm just saying. . .

 

[Billdog]

Yep those are some bad republicans. The funny thing is they would be considered good democrats

 

[D13er]

Good work, Tfinal.

JB

 

[ismith]

Lots of time on your hands Tfinal?

 

[Cornhusker]

TFinalshot you continue to amaze me nice work but this thread is going to heat up with a lot of venom. For all of you that are sure to answer they would be good Democrats lets see the list.

 

[TFinalshot]

Actually, I cant take credit for the list, it was compiled by another person. . . I failed to credit the author. . .

As per the Dems, I very would much like to see the list include Dems too. I'm sure there are as many. However, I do not believe the republicans have a monopoly on family values, as the party would have you believe. Contrary to what we are lead to believe, neither party, in my view, is the party of morality or values ? both make mistakes. The main difference is that the republicans have built a very small box and now that box is too full, it includes people who make moral misjudgments and mistakes, just like the rest of mortal America, including the Democratic party.

Perhaps this list, and if someone can bring forth a list of democrats, should show us that corruption is pervasive in our political system. Both parties should do a bit of house cleaning. . . and the republicans should be more careful about professing it's moral superiority, especially at the expense of the Democrats.

 

[huntindude]

And all this time they were on the " moral high ground"

Let's not forget my favorite Tom Delay, not sex related but he makes JR Ewing look like a cub scout.

Sure there's bad democrats too but at least they don't portray themselves as saints, you have to love the hypocricy of the gay bashing, family values preaching, honest Abe far right.

 

[AndymanSavage]

You who bash republicans based on these cases are just as bad as the republicans who bash all democrats based on individual cases. I tend to believe that the majority of us are good people regardless of political leanings. It makes me sick to see liberals pointing the finger at republicans over this Foley case. And just as sick to see conservatives firing back. Dude is a perv and needs to be investigated along with anyone (republican AND democrat who has been holding on to this info).

Your citations do prove one thing though. Most politicians are hypocrites who will say anything but feel that it doesn't apply to them (both parties). I think that we can all agree on that.

Andy

 

[Billdog]

I really think that 98% percent of all politicians are totally full of crap. The only reason the run for office is for personal agenda. I am a republican, but I am going to quote you demos. What they do in their personal lives is their business. As long as they vote and lead the country the way I agree with, I will support them. I am so tired of bullshit mudslinging and fingerpointing. It doesn't matter what is best for the country, It is which party has control.

 

[rhssstt]

In King's speech "I have a dream" he noted one line that stated he dreamed (hoped for) that one day his children would live in a world where they were judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

I think that's a good comment. To be judged by our character... by our actions or inactions, good or bad and not by party affiliation etc.... Stand up as be accountable as individuals. Have to look in the mirror and be honest about what you see and know, inside and out.

Kind of a scary thing, when you think about it.

ShadowHunter

 

[huntindude]

I agree most polititions are less than perfect on both sides. but I think the point is that democrats are portrayed as immoral degenerates and cases like Foley drive home the fact that republicans aren't as perfect as they claim to be.

politics in general suck but it's part of our life in this country and we should be glad we can fight about it. we can say what we want and have a say in what happens, sort of . it's far from a perfect system but it still works as we'll see next month. no matter if your side wins or looses it's the will of the people and like it or not we'll all live with it because we're Americans and that's what we do, that's what makes us different than the rag heads.

 

[EdleBrock]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 00:54AM (MST)[p]Moved to No. 12

 

[EdleBrock]

>> Actually, I cant take credit for the list, it was compiled by another person. . . I failed to credit the author. . .

Or the source... But you did take time to remove the first sentence...


Posted by Jeff In Milwaukee in General Discussion: Politics
Sat Sep 30th 2006, 11:17 AM

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Jeff In Milwaukee/11


Maybe Jeff should have put a water mark on his work so others don't try to portray it as their own...

 

[EdleBrock]

>>Perhaps this list, and if someone can bring forth a list of democrats,


Here you go... Took about 1 minute to Google up...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/congress.htm

Congressional Sex Scandals in History

By Ken Rudin
Special to washingtonpost.com

As the House prepares for a possible investigation of sex-related allegations concerning President Clinton, it's worth taking a look back at how Congress has dealt with the frequent charges of sexual misconduct by its own members.

Here are 21 case studies. In most, Congress took little or no official action, leaving the fate of the accused to the voters.

This history begins in 1974, but not because episodes of sexual impropriety only go back a quarter-century. In the old days, they simply weren't reported. In 1903, for example, the Speaker of the House, David Henderson (R-Iowa), was forced to resign over his sexual relationship with the daughter of a senator. Henderson never said why he was quitting, and neither did the press. But that was then, and this is now.

1974

Rep. Wilbur Mills (D-Ark.)
On Oct. 9, 1974, Mills, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and perhaps the most powerful member of the House, was stopped for speeding near the Jefferson Memorial at 2 a.m. Shortly after, Annabella Battistella ? a stripper who went by the stage-name of Fanne Foxe, the "Argentine Firecracker" ? jumped out of his car and into the Potomac River tidal basin. The incident did not immediately threaten Mills, whose district was solidly Democratic. But Mills won reelection with only 59 percent of the vote, his lowest total ever. Within weeks, Mills appeared on a Boston stage carousing with Foxe, apparently intoxicated. Faced with an uprising among House Democrats, Mills was forced to resign as Ways and Means chairman, and in 1976 he announced he would not seek another term, ending his 38-year House career. He was succeeded by Jim Guy Tucker, whose own ethics got the attention of Kenneth Starr some two decades later.

1976

Rep. Wayne Hays (D-Ohio)
In its May 23, 1976, editions, The Washington Post quoted Elizabeth Ray as saying that she was a secretary for the House Administration Committee, headed by Hays, despite the fact that "I can't type, I can't file, I can't even answer the phone." She said the main responsibility of her $14,000-a-year job was to have sex with Hays. The fall of Hays, an arrogant bully who was one of the most powerful ? and disliked ? members of Congress, was rapid. The House ethics committee opened its investigation on June 2. He resigned as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee on June 3. In the Democratic primary five days later, a car-wash manager/bartender who had run against Hays four previous times and never received more than 20 percent of the vote got 39 percent. Hays later resigned his committee chairmanship, dropped his reelection bid, and finally resigned on September 1.




Rep. John Young (D-Tex.)
On June 11, 1976, Colleen Gardner, a former staff secretary to Young, told the New York Times that Young increased her salary after she gave in to his sexual advances. In November, Young, who had run unopposed in the safe Democratic district five consecutive times, was reelected with just 61 percent of the vote. The scandal wouldn't go away, and in 1978 Young was defeated in a Democratic primary runoff.

Rep. Allan Howe (D-Utah)
On June 13, 1976, Howe was arrested in Salt Lake City on charges of soliciting two policewomen posing as prostitutes. Howe insisted he was set up and refused to resign. But the Democratic Party distanced itself from his candidacy and he was trounced by his Republican opponent in the November election.

Rep. Fred Richmond (D-N.Y.)
In April 1978, Richmond was arrested in Washington for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old boy. Richmond apologized for his actions, conceding he "made bad judgments involving my private life." In spite of a Democratic primary opponent's attempts to cash in on the headlines, Richmond easily won renomination and reelection. But his career came to an end four years later when, after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana and tax evasion ? and amid allegations that he had his staff procure cocaine for him ? he resigned his seat.

1980

Rep. Jon Hinson (R-Miss.)
On Aug. 8, 1980, during his first reelection bid, Hinson stunned everyone by announcing that in 1976 he had been accused of committing an obscene act at a gay haunt in Virginia. Hinson, married and a strong conservative, added that in 1977 he had survived a fire in a gay D.C. movie theater. He was making the disclosure, he said, because he needed to clear his conscience. But he denied he was a homosexual and refused GOP demands that he resign. Hinson won reelection in a three-way race, with 39 percent of the vote. But three months later, he was arrested on charges of attempted oral sodomy in the restroom of a House office building. He resigned his seat on April 13, 1981.




Rep. Robert Bauman (R-Md.)
On Oct. 3, 1980, Bauman, a leading "pro-family" conservative, pleaded innocent to a charge that he committed oral sodomy on a teenage boy in Washington. Married and the father of four, Bauman conceded that he had been an alcoholic but had been seeking treatment. The news came as a shock to voters of the rural, conservative district, and he lost to a Democrat in November.

1981

Rep. Thomas Evans (R-Del.)
The Wilmington News-Journal reported on March 6, 1981, that three House members ? Evans, Tom Railsback (R-Ill.) and Dan Quayle (R-Ind.) ? shared a cottage during a 1980 vacation in Florida with Paula Parkinson, a lobbyist who later posed for Playboy magazine. All three proceeded to vote against federal crop-insurance legislation that Parkinson had been lobbying against, and questions were raised whether votes were exchanged for sex. Railsback and Quayle denied having sex with her. Evans said he regretted his "association" with Parkinson and asked his family and God to forgive him. But he forgot to include the voters, who in 1982 threw him out of office.

1983

Reps. Dan Crane (R-Ill.) and Gerry Studds (D-Mass.)
The House ethics committee on July 14, 1983, announced that Crane and Studds had sexual relationships with teenage congressional pages ? Crane with a 17-year-old female in 1980, Studds with a 17-year-old male in 1973. Both admitted the charges that same day, and Studds acknowledged he was gay. The committee voted to reprimand the two, but a back-bench Georgia Republican named Newt Gingrich argued that they should be expelled. The full House voted on July 20 instead to censure the two, the first time that ever happened for sexual misconduct. Crane, married and the father of six, was tearful in his apology to the House, while Studds refused to apologize. Crane's conservative district voted him out in 1984, while the voters in Studds's more liberal district were more forgiving. Studds won reelection in 1984 with 56 percent of the vote, and continued to win until he retired in 1996.

1987

Rep. Ernie Konnyu (R-Calif.)
In August 1987, two former Konnyu aides complained to the San Jose Mercury News that the freshman Republican had sexually harassed them. GOP leaders were unhappy with Konnyu's temperament to begin with, so it took little effort to find candidates who would take him on in the primary. Stanford professor Tom Campbell ousted Konnyu the following June.

1988

Sen. Brock Adams (D-Wash.)
On Sept. 27, 1988, Seattle newspapers reported that Kari Tupper, the daughter of Adams's longtime friends, filed a complaint against the Washington Democrat in July of 1987, charging sexual assault. She claimed she went to Adams's house in March 1987 to get him to end a pattern of harassment, but that he drugged her and assaulted her. Adams denied any sexual assault, saying they only talked about her employment opportunities. Adams continued raising campaign funds and declared for a second term in February of 1992. But two weeks later the Seattle Times reported that eight other women were accusing Adams of sexual molestation over the past 20 years, describing a history of drugging and subsequent rape. Later that day, while still proclaiming his innocence, Adams ended his campaign.

Rep. Jim Bates (D-Calif.)
Roll Call quoted former Bates aides in October 1988 saying that the San Diego Democrat made sexual advances toward female staffers. Bates called it a GOP-inspired smear campaign, but also apologized for anything he did that might have seemed inappropriate. The story came too close to Election Day to damage Bates, who won easily. However, the following October the ethics committee sent Bates a "letter of reproval" directing him to make a formal apology to the women who filed the complaint. Although the district was not thought to be hospitable to the GOP, Randy "Duke" Cunningham, a former Navy pilot who was once shot down over North Vietnam, ousted Bates in 1990 by fewer than 2,000 votes.





1989

Rep. Donald "Buz" Lukens (R-Ohio)
On Feb. 1, 1989, an Ohio TV station aired a videotape of a confrontation between Lukens, a conservative activist, and the mother of a Columbus teenager. The mother charged that Lukens had been paying to have sex with her daughter since she was 13. On May 26, Lukens was found guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and sentenced to one month in jail. Infuriating his fellow Republicans, Lukens refused to resign. But he finished a distant third in the May 1990 primary. Instead of spending the remaining months of his term in obscurity, Lukens was accused of fondling a Capitol elevator operator and he resigned on October 24, 1990.

Rep. Gus Savage (D-Ill.)
The Washington Post reported on July 19, 1989, that Savage had fondled a Peace Corps volunteer while on an official visit to Zaire. Savage called the story a lie and blamed it on his political enemies and a racist media. (Savage is black.) In January 1990, the House ethics committee decided that the events did occur, but decided against any disciplinary action because Savage wrote a letter to the woman saying he "never intended to offend" her. Savage was reelected in 1990, but finally ousted in the 1992 primary by Mel Reynolds.

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.)
In response to a story in the Aug. 25, 1989, Washington Times, Frank confirmed that he hired Steve Gobie, a male prostitute, in 1985 to live with and work for him in his D.C. apartment. But Frank, who is gay, said he fired Gobie in 1987 when he learned he was using the apartment to run a prostitution service. The Boston Globe, among others, called on Frank to resign, but he refused. On July 19, 1990, the ethics committee recommended Frank be reprimanded because he "reflected discredit upon the House" by using his congressional office to fix 33 of Gobie's parking tickets. Attempts to expel or censure Frank failed; instead the House voted 408-18 to reprimand him. The fury in Washington was not shared in Frank's district, where he won reelection in 1990 with 66 percent of the vote, and has won by larger margins ever since.

1990

Rep. Arlan Stangeland (R-Minn.)
It was reported in January 1990 that Stangeland, married with seven children, had made several hundred long-distance phone calls in 1986 and 1987 on his House credit card to or from the residences of a female lobbyist. Stangeland acknowledged the calls and conceded some of them may have been personal. But he insisted the relationship was not romantic. Voters of his rural district were not buying, choosing a Democrat in November.

1991

Sen. Charles Robb (D-Va.)
On April 25, 1991, with NBC News about to go on the air with allegations he had an extramarital affair with Tai Collins, a former Miss Virginia, Robb made a preemptive strike. The Virginia Democrat, married to Lyndon Johnson's daughter, said he was with Collins in a hotel room, but all that took place was a massage over a bottle of wine. Collins, in a subsequent interview with Playboy, said they had been having an affair since 1983. It was thought that these charges, along with long-circulated but unproven allegations that Robb had attended Virginia Beach parties where cocaine was present, would jeopardize Robb's 1994 bid for re-election. But the GOP nominated Oliver North, the Iran-Contra figure who had his own credibility problems. Robb squeaked by with 46 percent in a three-way race.

1992

Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
In October 1992, Republican Senate nominee Rick Reed began running a campaign commercial that included a surreptitiously taped interview with Lenore Kwock, Inouye's hairdresser. Kwock said Inouye had sexually forced himself on her in 1975 and continued a pattern of sexual harassment, even as Kwock continued to cut his hair over the years. Inouye, seeking a sixth term, denied the charges. And Kwock said that by running the commercial, Reed had caused her more pain than Inouye had. Reed was forced to pull the ad, and while many voters took out their anger on the Republican, Inouye was held to 57 percent of the vote ? the lowest total of his career. A week later, a female Democratic state legislator announced that she had heard from nine other women who claimed Inouye had sexually harassed them over the past decade. But the women didn't go public with their claims, the local press didn't pursue the story, and the Senate Ethics Committee decided to drop the investigation because the accusers wouldn't participate in an inquiry.

Sen. Bob Packwood (R-Ore.)
Less than three weeks after Packwood narrowly won a fifth term, the Washington Post on Nov. 22, 1992, reported allegations from 10 female ex-staffers that Packwood had sexually harassed them. The Post had the story before the election, but didn't run it as Packwood had denied the charges. With the story now out in the open, Packwood said that if any of his actions were "unwelcome," he was "sincerely sorry." He then sought alcohol counseling. But his longtime feminist allies were outraged, and with more women coming forward with horror stories, there were calls for his resignation. It wasn't until September of 1995 when, faced with the prospect of public Senate hearings and a vote to expel, Packwood announced his resignation.

1994

Rep. Mel Reynolds (D-Ill.)
Freshman Reynolds was indicted on Aug. 19, 1994, on charges of having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker and then pressuring her to lie about it. Reynolds, who is black, denied the charges and said the investigation was racially motivated. The GOP belatedly put up a write-in candidate for November, but Reynolds dispatched him in the overwhelmingly Democratic district with little effort. Reynolds was convicted on Aug. 22, 1995 of 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography, was sentenced to five years in prison, and resigned his seat on October 1.

Ken Rudin, a former editor at NPR and the Hotline, produces the ScuttleButton contest for washingtonpost.com and writes a column for The Hill. He can be reached at [email protected].

? Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 07:22AM (MST)[p]

I got the list as an email, I did not remove a thing, I just copied it as I got it, no author, not citation, but I could have said in my post that I got the information in an email, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. After looking at the citation I'm not even sure that "jeff" is the author, it just states that he posted it. Hum, nonetheless, had I knew where it came from, i would have posted the link.

As for the lists of less than steller people, I've been around long enough to recall the scandals and the people in the list. I was not trying to take credit for list, I would not have said it was not mine, as soon as I saw people giving me credit, if my intention was to take cridit . . . I did not anticipate that people would be as focused on who put the material together as they would be on the list it self. The information is common knowledge, and in the public domain, so it's widely available. Again, I'm sorry if I misled anyone, it was not my intention to take credit for the list. . .

Now, as for the dems list, that's real nice, thank for digging it up.

I'll repeat, my intention was never to mislead, I just did not know who the information came from and never bothered to do an internet search.

Come to think of it, that's why I imbed my photos with watermarks, that way when people pull them off the internet and stick then on your computers as screen savers and or pass them around, you dont have to remember who should be given credit for the photo. It's actually helping you as much as it helps me. . . Thanks for your interest and setting the record straight, I'm actually glad to see the source of the work... Looks like your well informed, I did not know of that internet site either, thanks for pointing me to that as well! Are you a member of the democratic party, or do you just like to stay informed of what both sides of the isle are doing?

Thanks for the thoughtful consideration, and have a great day!

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 07:25AM (MST)[p]Hum, this is a balance list of both dems and republicans. . . and it goes back further. . . Thanks for digging it up.

 

[Cornhusker]

Good research I guess we all should be able to see the R behind the name sure doesn't make you a family guy with strong moral values. Also the D behind the name doesn't make you a dope smoking womanizer. Its the same old thing as its always been everyone wants to feel good about the group they affiliate with, and that means their opposition must be bad. I guess that's why I consider myself an independent. It still amazes me how many people in my area vote a straight ticket (usually republican where I live. Face it guys and girls its us the voters that have screwed this up we need to look at the character and nature of the candidate not the D or R behind the name.

 

[EdleBrock]

>>Come to think of it, that's why I imbed my photos with watermarks

Yeah, I was being a smart a-- with the watermark comment. I know you add those to your pictures. I thought it was ironic that you would post with no credit when you protect your work.

As far as that web site goes, no, I am not a member. I searched on some key words from your post to locate the source. I do know of the web site though and don't care for it, infact, I think it gives the Democrats a worse image than they already give themselves.

I am neither registered Republican nor Democrat. I believe you are correct in your statement: ". . .corruption is pervasive in our political system. Both parties should do a bit of house cleaning. . ."

I am a conservative. I could list the reasons why but I am afraid that would open up a tangent discussion and I'd rather read about hunting that politics here.

BTW: I think your photography is outstanding and I've learned quite a bit from your posts.

 

[D13er]

I don't believe there is a single politician in DC that I would trust with my wife, kids, money, or dog. They are all bottom feeders. If you are left leaning then the republicans are worse, if you are right leaning the dems are worse.

THEY ALL ONLY CARE about getting re-elected and keeping power and keeping their mouths deep in the grain sack. It is really a shame that those two planes hit the WTC instead of the capitol. There WERE innocent people in the WTC.

We have to stop sending carreer politicians to washington. They all suck. We need to be forcing our respected community leaders to accept political nominations and sacrifice a few years of their lives to run the government in a responsible way. Like our founding fathers intended.

I think it is too late.

JB

 

[theridge]

Among many other reasons here is why I vote conservative.

CTA and NEA: 100% of their voting recommendations are democrat.

NRA: Only 91.3% of their reccomendations are republican!!!!

Tfinal, man, why dont you just admit that you hate Bush and all other conservative leaning people. This moderator title has gone to your head! Nuke city?

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 04:01PM (MST)[p]I'm not nuking a thing. Keep in mind that there are other moderators and hundereds of people reading these posts . . . If someone does not like something they can bring it to the attention of a moderator. If it breaks rules it gets taken down. If you have an issue, please, let someone know.

Now, I am a conservative, unlike the republican party of this era. I dont hate Bush, I just happen to think he's a compete bafoon, an idological cripple, and as stupid as Mr. Foley!

I, like a majority of Americans think that Bush is NOT a conservative and is not leading this country in the correct direction. Before you jump me, keep in mind that I said most, you my friend are in the minority if you support this President and or you think he is a conservative. Nothing wrong with being in the minority, I'm simply pointing out that this is an un popular president who will go down in history as the least conservative of any of the "conservative" presidents we have had thus far. Invading another country, involving our nation if other peoples wars are two of the most un conservative principals that there are.

Lets see, under Bush we have, more government, more spending, more laws, more invasion into private rights, more big government telling local people what they can and can not do (if you don't believe this your not a westerner). More corporate, big business control - those all are NOT conservative principles, yet this president has raised the bar and redefined what it is to be a conservative. Youre being fooled if you think this white house is conservative. In fact, I dont think there are any conservatives left, if there are, most are cowards.

If you disagree with me, you should explain why. Please, lets talk about the issues rather then cutting me down. Just look at the merits, Bush is in the tank, his party is in the tank, and most republicans wont just cowboy up and take back the party from the radial Christian right.

This war, while a fight against terror, is as much a religious battle as it is a battle over right and wrong.

The Bush camp and those who support him are waging a religious war, Armageddon is just around the corner - isnt it?

 

[D13er]

This is most definitly a religious war. Radical muslims against everyone else. Do you object to fighting it?

JB

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-06 AT 00:01AM (MST)[p]Hum, I was under the impression that we were fighting a battle to replace Sadam (the dictator) with a democratic government, thereby freeing the Iraqis, and saving the USA and other nations from WMD's. That's what our congress supported. I dont think a decleration of war was ever made by the USA.

I do not EVER recall any debate or discussion about a religious war, and I most certainly do not remember being asked if we, the citizens of the USA were prepared to go to war over religious ideologies. Most, including Mr. Powell, knew that a religious was would result, and for that reason, and the fact that he also knew that there likely were no WMD's, he thought going to war with Iraq was a bad move.

Are you suggesting that the mission really is accomplished in Iraq and now the "war" on terror has moved to . . . Iraq? What about Afghanistan? What about OBL?

So, either GW lied his way in to what we are falsly calling a war, or GW lied his way to war, his religious war.

If religion had been the intent, from the beginning, we would never have gone over there; Americans would never had stood for it. In addition, if we are in the throws of a religious war, than how can we maintain our moral superiority over the Middle East - in affect we then would be fighting their fight, and not ours.

I support going after OBL, I did not support going to to Iraq.

 

[Cornhusker]

TFinalshot well said if this is a religious war it will get uglier than it is already. Throughout history man has proven he will do most anything to prove his religion is more worthwhile than anothers. I think many Muslims think of it as a war against Islam which has dangerous implications and makes me think this war could very easily expand out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Read some of the history on the crusades and the atrocities both sides inflicted on the other and then realize the techonological improvements that have allowed killing to become much easier to do on a large scale.