NR Preference Points Change

Exactly, I am not aware of any NR that does not like or want averaging. Also those that do average are taking multiple guys out at once.

This is nothing more than a personal attack against a couple individuals.

Sad that we would eat our own in such away. I still have yet to see anyone prove this is a bad thing...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-19 AT 09:29PM (MST)[p]>Topgun, you might take a look
>at the onyourown guys post
>on his website. Not
>that it really matters a
>whole lot but he admits
>that he does party apps
>with family and friends....no I'm
>not lying! That's great
>that his son and relative
>shared pts and drew tags...another
>thumbs up to sharing pref
>pts in Wyo!

BS! I'm on that Forum as much or more than I'm on MM and I know exactly what's been said over there, including Randy calling you out along with others for false statements and allegations you made about himself and BuzzH when you were essentially named asshat of the month, LOL! Now what you stated is exactly what Randy posted and what I've been saying! He doesn't use people's high point totals to draw tags for himself to the best of my knowledge and if he did it may have been one time like our other member mentioned. If he did on that one hunt the other member here mentioned I'm not aware of it, but in no way does Randy go out seeking people with high PP numbers like you do in order to get a tag of his own to do his shows!
 
>I am a Randy fan but
>I think he did use
>a buddy?s points on a
>NV deer hunt when he
>drew 121 late. Big deal,
>that's how the system is
>set up.
>
>Rich


Exactly.
 
Topgun, I'm just going off what the OYO guy mentioned in his post. I'm aware that he likely doesn't go out of his way searching for people with high pref pts to apply with for his show! I'll send you a pm so we can discuss this.
 
>Exactly, I am not aware of
>any NR that does not
>like or want averaging. Also
>those that do average are
>taking multiple guys out at
>once.
>
>This is nothing more than a
>personal attack against a couple
>individuals.
>
>Sad that we would eat
>our own in such away.
>I still have yet to
>see anyone prove this is
>a bad thing...


If you think selling our wildlife to the highest bidder for a big buck package like Founder does or what the other website is doing is okay, then IMHO shame on you because that is not what our hunting heritage is all about!
 
Topgun ? It's good to know that you agree that Buzz and Co are throwing non-residents under the bus.
 
>>Exactly, I am not aware of
>>any NR that does not
>>like or want averaging. Also
>>those that do average are
>>taking multiple guys out at
>>once.
>>
>>This is nothing more than a
>>personal attack against a couple
>>individuals.
>>
>>Sad that we would eat
>>our own in such away.
>>I still have yet to
>>see anyone prove this is
>>a bad thing...
>
>
>If you think selling our wildlife
>to the highest bidder for
>a big buck package like
>Founder does or what the
>other website is doing is
>okay, then IMHO shame on
>you because that is not
>what our hunting heritage is
>all about!


?To the highest bidder?? Is that what I do TOPGUN?
You?re so far out of touch with facts and reality and into the realm of slander and malicious lies. I think you need to be careful with comments that I can GUARANTEE are inaccurate.
It's fine to debate with truth, not cool to be a liar.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Topgun said:
>>If you think selling our wildlife
>>to the highest bidder for
>>a big buck package like
>>Founder does or what the
>>other website is doing is
>>okay, then IMHO shame on
>>you because that is not
>>what our hunting heritage is
>>all about!
>
Brian said:
>?To the highest bidder?? Is that
>what I do TOPGUN?
>You?re so far out of touch
>with facts and reality and
>into the realm of slander
>and malicious lies. I think
>you need to be careful
>with comments that I can
>GUARANTEE are inaccurate.
>It's fine to debate with truth,
>not cool to be a
>liar.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

I took his comment "highest bidder" as a figure of speech, is it fair to call him a liar?

Were you being a liar when you posted this about BuzzH and myself, Brian? Not cool.

"BTW - I'm sure you can get people to jump on board when you feed them full of BS like this fair chase angle. I've heard those legislators talk like all one has to do is show up and the deer is standing on the mountain right where I saw him 2 months earlier waiting to be shot. You guys are not honest about what it really is. You're actively involved in trying to pursued these legislators, yet you're ok with them believing a lie about fair chase to get what you want. Hopefully again they'll see you guys for what you are and AGAIN, kick it out the door."

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I took his comment "highest bidder"
>as a figure of speech,
>is it fair to call
>him a liar?
>
>Were you being a liar when
>you posted this about BuzzH
>and myself, Brian? Not cool.
>
>
>"BTW - I'm sure you can
>get people to jump on
>board when you feed them
>full of BS like this
>fair chase angle. I've heard
>those legislators talk like all
>one has to do is
>show up and the deer
>is standing on the mountain
>right where I saw him
>2 months earlier waiting to
>be shot. You guys are
>not honest about what it
>really is. You're actively involved
>in trying to pursued these
>legislators, yet you're ok with
>them believing a lie about
>fair chase to get what
>you want. Hopefully again they'll
>see you guys for what
>you are and AGAIN, kick
>it out the door."
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


That's exactly what my comment was Jeff and it sure wasn't said or intended to be in a malicious or slanderous manner as was alleged. Funny how the main problem in this discussion seems to always come back to talk about free speech and First Amendment rights being taken away. It's hard to believe that since each state has the right to manage the wildlife within it's borders in any way they see fit, up to and including disallowing NRs to even hunt, that it's come down to that kind of defense when the courts have ruled in favor of the states any time state game management is taken to the high courts.
 
>Topgun ? It's good to know
>that you agree that Buzz
>and Co are throwing non-residents
>under the bus.


I said nothing about Co in any post to the best of my knowledge, but I do agree 100% with BuzzH that this high point pimping is not what our hunting heritage is all about and that it really sucks. However, as a NR, even though I agree with BuzzH on the pimping aspect, I would hate to see averaging go away with so many NR people in the system whose sole intent is of using it the way it was intended for family and close friends.
 
If anyone cares to go back to the top of the thread, all I did was provide a concerned Sportsmen with the information needed to address that concern.

I agree 100% with mulecreek, nice to see sportsmen getting involved rather than being keyboard warriors/tough guys.

Strange that everyone blows a gasket over that...
 
>Mulecreek
>
>I guess what I am saying
>is that NR like me
>will burn their points and
>not be able to come
>back as often as they
>could before when they as
>a party could use their
>PP's anyway they want. It
>is not just family but
>a lot of hunters like
>myself like to hunt with
>buddies or friends. This will
>now mean that someone has
>to stay behind because he
>doesn't have as many points
>as the others in the
>party have.
>
>Also Jimmy Crack Corn and I
>don't care shows he cares
>that no one else if
>affected by his actions

The number of nr tags given is the same regardless of party application or not. I believe it is possible to get a few extra from party applications such as there are 3 tags left and a party app is drawn that has 4 people. But I would assume that is an incredibly small number. If a business is counting on that then they are screwed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-19 AT 01:16PM (MST)[p]So I hunt by myself 95% of the time and sit on a boat load of points for both Deer and Elk...Hopefully this will be the year! Is it going to help single guys like me in the long run, hard to tell!

My only issue is taking something from CO and applying it in WY...That's a road I hope WY never goes down...



'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-19 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]>Topgun, I'm just going off what
>the OYO guy mentioned in
>his post. I'm aware
>that he likely doesn't go
>out of his way searching
>for people with high pref
>pts to apply with for
>his show! I'll send
>you a pm so we
>can discuss this.

I got your PM and there is absolutely nothing for us to discuss. You made all kinds of allegations against Randy on HT, including that he gave BuzzH expensive clothes and binos for guiding services! Turns out his sponsors provide Randy with everything they want worn and used on his shows to advertise their products if his friends don't already use them. At the end of any hunt those friends then return everything to Randy and his sponsors even do a yearly inventory check in his basement to ensure everything in their contract is in line. You made an absolute jackass of yourself over there and don't appear to have learned much from it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 10:37PM (MST)[p]Is there really a state that does it better? For residents and nonresidents? We might not like the hornets flying around, but teasing the nest with a stick isn't likely to make it better.

I think Wyoming Game and Fish does an excellent job with the resources they have. I think residents have a great deal here. Sounds like Wyoming does better for non residents than many other states.
 
>We don't need to change the
>point sharing. We just
>need a sitting out period
>just like the residents have
>for moose. If you
>draw a tag that takes
>more than X points, you
>sit out X number of
>years. The X's don't
>need to be equal.
>For instance, if you draw
>a tag that requires 5
>or more points you can't
>draw the tag next year.
> You have to sit
>out one year.
>
>Having said that, this mostly seems
>to involve region G and
>if we get any more
>snow we could all be
>in trouble.

That pretty much goes against Wyoming?s business plan doesn't it? Get Non-res to buy points so we fund their G&F because we all know residents of Wyoming will never pony up enough cash to support the cause. Seems all the residents care about is themselves and not the millions of dollars flowing into state of selling points. Brilliant ideas guys!!!!!
 
>It is pretty amazing that you
>have a few residents so
>up and arms about how
>non-residents use their points.
>They either feel threatened by
>the few non-residents that get
>to hunt unit G and
>H on a yearly basis
>or they feel cheated that
>a non-resident can use the
>system to effectively have the
>rights of a resident.
>So what is it Buzz,
>are you jealous that a
>few hunters like Founder out
>hunt you in your backyard
>or is this just another
>case of you trying to
>stick it to the non-residents?
> Based on your comments
>on MM, i would guess
>it's a little bit of
>both. I'm still trying
>to figure out why any
>organization (BHA) would put you
>in a leadership position.

Because BHA is a liberal activist organization and BUZZ is their puppet as he tries to pleas the higher up by being a flaming Liberal Democrat. It's real easy to understand if you know how liberals work.
 
>[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LA
>Let's say that Region G now
>takes <6 points for a
>100% draw in the Regular
>PP Draw and you have
>6 PPs when you apply
>by yourself for a "sure"
>thing. It doesn't take
>a genius to understand that
>when a guy with only
>a couple points parties with
>a max PP holder of
>12 or 13 points that
>their average jumps over the
>single "sure" holder and there
>goes not only one, but
>two tags that the single
>had a chance at drawing.
> Yep, it takes the
>max PP holder down to
>zero the following year, but
>it's at the expense of
>the single dude and another
>in his "sure" PP pool
>that lose out out on
>those two tags. Thus,
>PP creep!

Top gun,

It doesn't add pt creep! The guy who had 12 pts that would have drawn a tag at the 12 pt level doesn't draw a tag at the 12 or level but rather drops down to the 8 pt level. If there is 100% chance of drawing from 12 pts to 6 like your example than the tag allocation is the same.

This argument is silly really because on any given year people that are on the side lines could jump in.

What creates pt creep is the amount of total applicants wanting to draw a quota. It's supply and demand.

This argument that a 0 pts guy leap frogs over is not actually what is happening. The quota compared to the demand is what determines the pts level creep.
 
You know what's funny? BUZZ you where part of the Newberg elk hunt episode where Randy tells the viewers that his uncle point shared to draw a hard tag because he didn't have enough to draw by himself so he piggy backed on Mathews points to be able to draw the tag. His uncle has cancer and randy wanted him to go hunt an elk with him and Mathew. Family, friends kinda senario.

Question BUZZ did you voice your disapproval to randy Newberg at any time saying you as a resident don't think he should be able to do that?

I'm going to assume you didn't and were instead all proud to be on the show with him.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-19 AT 07:47AM (MST)[p]>You know what's funny? BUZZ you
>where part of the Newberg
>elk hunt episode where Randy
>tells the viewers that his
>uncle point shared to draw
>a hard tag because he
>didn't have enough to draw
>by himself so he piggy
>backed on Mathews points to
>be able to draw the
>tag. His uncle has cancer
>and randy wanted him to
>go hunt an elk with
>him and Mathew. Family, friends
>kinda senario.
>
>Question BUZZ did you voice your
>disapproval to randy Newberg at
>any time saying you as
>a resident don't think he
>should be able to do
>that?
>
>I'm going to assume you didn't
>and were instead all proud
>to be on the show
>with him.


You and Sierra sure can't comprehend anything that's posted on these threads and just keep posting your BS. FYI BuzzH has stated more than once when point sharing comes up that it's the pimping out on the net that is wrong and he, along with most of us, has no problem with family and friends sharing points in order to hunt together. I believe Randy also stated that Uncle Larry had only one or two points less than what Matthew had and their tags were drawn with a couple points less than max. Therefore, they didn't even come close to what Founder and jims do with people they don't even know when there is a huge point differential between themselves and the person they pimp off of to draw a tag.

I just happened to see that you made a post to me today way up the thread regarding point creep and it again shows you don't know squat about squat, but what else is new?! If you don't think when Founder and jims, or anyone else that pimps a huge number of points to vault over at least two other people that would have drawn a tag with a lower point total isn't creep, then you really need help understanding points and draw stats.
 
I think it's funny when residents act like they own all the animals and pay all the freight for their care in their states - and that NRs therefore have no right to opinions. We'll just ignore the exorbitant application costs and tag costs when drawn that NRs pay.....

Talk about tunnel vision. Geez.
 
>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>doing to help other NR
>in your state? I bet
>you are pushing for more
>tags as we speak.

I think I may Have to move out to Wyoming to get away from the NR classification I'm under on this Forum after reading so many NR responses that don't have a clue regarding who has control of wildlife management.
 
>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>doing to help other NR
>in your state? I bet
>you are pushing for more
>tags as we speak.

They don't need any help. In TX NRs have exactly the same tags as residents. Buy a license - go hunting everything from rabbits to elk. Even in the draw hunts where tags are limited NRs are treated just like residents with the same opportunity.
 
>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>doing to help other NR
>>in your state? I bet
>>you are pushing for more
>>tags as we speak.
>
>I think I may Have to
>move out to Wyoming to
>get away from the NR
>classification I'm under on this
>Forum after reading so many
>NR responses that don't have
>a clue regarding who has
>control of wildlife management.

I know the states have control. That doesn't make treating NRs as their whipping boys and money troughs fair.

And I get it's just supply and demand - that still doesn't make it right.

Especially considering (unlike in my state) almost 50% of the state of WY is federally owned by Americans from all 50 states.

Who is in control can change. The western states may push too far one day and wake up and learn that their control is no more.
 
>>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>>doing to help other NR
>>>in your state? I bet
>>>you are pushing for more
>>>tags as we speak.
>>
>>I think I may Have to
>>move out to Wyoming to
>>get away from the NR
>>classification I'm under on this
>>Forum after reading so many
>>NR responses that don't have
>>a clue regarding who has
>>control of wildlife management.
>
>I know the states have control.
>That doesn't make treating NRs
>as their whipping boys and
>money troughs fair.
>
>And I get it's just supply
>and demand - that still
>doesn't make it right.
>
>Especially considering (unlike in my state)
>almost 50% of the state
>of WY is federally owned
>by Americans from all 50
>states.
>
>Who is in control can change.
>The western states may push
>too far one day and
>wake up and learn that
>their control is no more.
>

That happening is somewhere between slim and no chance.

Land ownership doesn't mean jack chit in regard to wildlife found within the border of any State (with excepted species managed via congressional Acts).

Also, your going to have to change this law, for starters:

Public Law Number 109-13,section 6036 ("section 6036"), which reaffirmed a state's right to regulate hunting, passed in 2005. Reaffirms the States right to discriminate against NR hunters any way they see fit.

Then you'll have to over-come 150ish years of case law, regarding states rights to manage wildlife...many of them circuit court decisions based on about any argument under the sun...from constitutionality, supremacy clause, dormant commerce clause, etc. etc. All finding in favor of the States right to manage wildlife as they see fit.

Good luck with that...
 
>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>doing to help other NR
>>in your state? I bet
>>you are pushing for more
>>tags as we speak.
>
>They don't need any help. In
>TX NRs have exactly the
>same tags as residents. Buy
>a license - go hunting
>everything from rabbits to elk.
>Even in the draw hunts
>where tags are limited
>NRs are treated just like
>residents with the same opportunity.
>


First off, comparing Texas and the huge amount of private lands it encompasses with any of the western states that have millions of acres of public land is an apples to oranges comparison. The fees it charges NRs for hunting, fishing, and trapping licenses is also up there compared to residents.
 
>>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>>doing to help other NR
>>>in your state? I bet
>>>you are pushing for more
>>>tags as we speak.
>>
>>They don't need any help. In
>>TX NRs have exactly the
>>same tags as residents. Buy
>>a license - go hunting
>>everything from rabbits to elk.
>>Even in the draw hunts
>>where tags are limited
>>NRs are treated just like
>>residents with the same opportunity.
>>
>
>
>First off, comparing Texas and the
>huge amount of private lands
>it encompasses with any of
>the western states that have
>millions of acres of public
>land is an apples to
>oranges comparison. The fees
>it charges NRs for hunting,
>fishing, and trapping licenses is
>also up there compared to
>residents.

Yes, public land owned by all Americans.

A Texas NR license with all whitetail, turkey, and mule deer tags included is $315. No draw. No comparison to WY NR license and tag costs. None.

The app costs for draw hunts are minuscule - and the same for NRs as residents.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 04:38PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 04:37?PM (MST)

With all that great, cheap opportunity in Texas, really don't see why you'd lower your standards for subpar and over-priced hunting in Wyoming.

Texas sounds like a big-game hunters paradise...cheap opportunity abounds.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19
>AT 04:38?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19
>AT 04:37?PM (MST)
>
>With all that great, cheap opportunity
>in Texas, really don't see
>why you'd lower your standards
>for subpar and over-priced hunting
>in Wyoming.
>
>Texas sounds like a big-game hunters
>paradise...cheap opportunity abounds.

Lol your arrogance is typical of residents who were born on third base and think they hit a triple.

I'll continue to take my a**- whoopins in the form of exorbitant app fees and tags to hunt western states that have animals that live there which I desire to hunt.

But I'll thank the good Lord for those opportunities since he is the one who put them there.
 
>>>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>>>doing to help other NR
>>>>in your state? I bet
>>>>you are pushing for more
>>>>tags as we speak.
>>>
>>>I think I may Have to
>>>move out to Wyoming to
>>>get away from the NR
>>>classification I'm under on this
>>>Forum after reading so many
>>>NR responses that don't have
>>>a clue regarding who has
>>>control of wildlife management.
>>
>>I know the states have control.
>>That doesn't make treating NRs
>>as their whipping boys and
>>money troughs fair.
>>
>>And I get it's just supply
>>and demand - that still
>>doesn't make it right.
>>
>>Especially considering (unlike in my state)
>>almost 50% of the state
>>of WY is federally owned
>>by Americans from all 50
>>states.
>>
>>Who is in control can change.
>>The western states may push
>>too far one day and
>>wake up and learn that
>>their control is no more.
>>
>
>That happening is somewhere between slim
>and no chance.
>
>Land ownership doesn't mean jack chit
>in regard to wildlife found
>within the border of any
>State (with excepted species managed
>via congressional Acts).
>
>Also, your going to have to
>change this law, for starters:
>
>
>Public Law Number 109-13,section 6036 ("section
>6036"), which reaffirmed a state's
>right to regulate hunting, passed
>in 2005. Reaffirms the States
>right to discriminate against NR
>hunters any way they see
>fit.
>
>Then you'll have to over-come 150ish
>years of case law, regarding
>states rights to manage wildlife...many
>of them circuit court decisions
>based on about any argument
>under the sun...from constitutionality, supremacy
>clause, dormant commerce clause, etc.
>etc. All finding in favor
>of the States right to
>manage wildlife as they see
>fit.
>
>Good luck with that...

How about:
If more and more nonresidents feel unfairly treated:
They push for and back laws and vote for people that will sell public lands. Where will we all hunt the wildlife Wyoming owns??
 
>>>>Hey NR (cbeard) what are you
>>>>doing to help other NR
>>>>in your state? I bet
>>>>you are pushing for more
>>>>tags as we speak.
>>>
>>>I think I may Have to
>>>move out to Wyoming to
>>>get away from the NR
>>>classification I'm under on this
>>>Forum after reading so many
>>>NR responses that don't have
>>>a clue regarding who has
>>>control of wildlife management.
>>
>>I know the states have control.
>>That doesn't make treating NRs
>>as their whipping boys and
>>money troughs fair.
>>
>>And I get it's just supply
>>and demand - that still
>>doesn't make it right.
>>
>>Especially considering (unlike in my state)
>>almost 50% of the state
>>of WY is federally owned
>>by Americans from all 50
>>states.
>>
>>Who is in control can change.
>>The western states may push
>>too far one day and
>>wake up and learn that
>>their control is no more.
>>
>
>That happening is somewhere between slim
>and no chance.
>
>Land ownership doesn't mean jack chit
>in regard to wildlife found
>within the border of any
>State (with excepted species managed
>via congressional Acts).
>
>Also, your going to have to
>change this law, for starters:
>
>
>Public Law Number 109-13,section 6036 ("section
>6036"), which reaffirmed a state's
>right to regulate hunting, passed
>in 2005. Reaffirms the States
>right to discriminate against NR
>hunters any way they see
>fit.
>
>Then you'll have to over-come 150ish
>years of case law, regarding
>states rights to manage wildlife...many
>of them circuit court decisions
>based on about any argument
>under the sun...from constitutionality, supremacy
>clause, dormant commerce clause, etc.
>etc. All finding in favor
>of the States right to
>manage wildlife as they see
>fit.
>
>Good luck with that...

How about:
If more and more nonresidents feel unfairly treated:
They push for and back laws and vote for people that will sell public lands. Where will we all hunt the wildlife Wyoming owns??
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]TEXAS? Well that explains it all. Maybe you can help a NR out and allow him to come hunt on your lease. If you want to decide on what Wyoming does, pack up the family and move on out. Last I looked there aren't any road blocks stopping you from coming.

Goodluck newhunter,push away. Let me know in a few years how that works out for you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 05:55PM (MST)[p]You all are welcome here in Virginia.....$200 and you can shoot 2 bucks, 3 does, 3 turkeys, 1 bear and small game....we have 2 million acres of national forest with 24 wilderness areas! You can fly, buy a license and hunt the same day.

This whole thing is a bit backwards as we are all non-residents somewhere and want to hunt somewhere else on a vacation. Only in the Rocky Mountain states do non-residents foot a large portion of the bill...it probably should be a bit more equitable in my opinion.

Exorbitant non resident fees could backfire on departments if we have a real recession...time will tell, but it would be nice if states would slow down the increases in points, tags, licenses, credit card fees, conservation fee, draw fee....it has and will price out many people.
 
>>>>They don't need any help. In
>>>TX NRs have exactly the
>>>same tags as residents. Buy
>>>a license - go hunting
>>>everything from rabbits to elk.
>>>Even in the draw hunts
>>>where tags are limited
>>>NRs are treated just like
>>>residents with the same opportunity.
>>>
>>
>>
>>First off, comparing Texas and the
>>huge amount of private lands
>>it encompasses with any of
>>the western states that have
>>millions of acres of public
>>land is an apples to
>>oranges comparison. The fees
>>it charges NRs for hunting,
>>fishing, and trapping licenses is
>>also up there compared to
>>residents.
>
>Yes, public land owned by all
>Americans.
>
>A Texas NR license with all
>whitetail, turkey, and mule deer
>tags included is $315. No
>draw. No comparison to WY
>NR license and tag costs.
>None.
>
>The app costs for draw hunts
>are minuscule - and the
>same for NRs as residents.
>

You conveniently left out the fact that after a person buys that $315 license that they then are required to purchase a bunch of stamps and permits in order to use those tags attached to said license! If you're going to debate, it would be best to state all the facts involved since some of us do know more about Texas than you may think!
 
>Lol your arrogance is typical of
>residents who were born on
>third base and think they
>hit a triple.
>
>I'll continue to take my a**-
>whoopins in the form of
>exorbitant app fees and tags
>to hunt western states that
>have animals that live there
>which I desire to hunt.
>
>
>But I'll thank the good Lord
>for those opportunities since he
>is the one who put
>them there.


Make sure when you give thanks to the Lord for all those opportunities that you also thank Him for having the good grace in allowing the residents to grant us NRs the huge amount of tags to even hunt there!
 
>>That happening is somewhere between slim
>>and no chance.
>>
>>Land ownership doesn't mean jack chit
>>in regard to wildlife found
>>within the border of any
>>State (with excepted species managed
>>via congressional Acts).
>>
>>Also, your going to have to
>>change this law, for starters:
>>
>>
>>Public Law Number 109-13,section 6036 ("section
>>6036"), which reaffirmed a state's
>>right to regulate hunting, passed
>>in 2005. Reaffirms the States
>>right to discriminate against NR
>>hunters any way they see
>>fit.
>>
>>Then you'll have to over-come 150ish
>>years of case law, regarding
>>states rights to manage wildlife...many
>>of them circuit court decisions
>>based on about any argument
>>under the sun...from constitutionality, supremacy
>>clause, dormant commerce clause, etc.
>>etc. All finding in favor
>>of the States right to
>>manage wildlife as they see
>>fit.
>>
>>Good luck with that...
>
>How about:
>If more and more nonresidents feel
>unfairly treated:
>They push for and back laws
>and vote for people that
>will sell public lands. Where
>will we all hunt the
>wildlife Wyoming owns??

Worn out threat...punching yourself in the face is your choice. If that's the only move you feel you have...knock yourself out, pun there.

Good luck with that too.
 
>>>>>They don't need any help. In
>>>>TX NRs have exactly the
>>>>same tags as residents. Buy
>>>>a license - go hunting
>>>>everything from rabbits to elk.
>>>>Even in the draw hunts
>>>>where tags are limited
>>>>NRs are treated just like
>>>>residents with the same opportunity.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>First off, comparing Texas and the
>>>huge amount of private lands
>>>it encompasses with any of
>>>the western states that have
>>>millions of acres of public
>>>land is an apples to
>>>oranges comparison. The fees
>>>it charges NRs for hunting,
>>>fishing, and trapping licenses is
>>>also up there compared to
>>>residents.
>>
>>Yes, public land owned by all
>>Americans.
>>
>>A Texas NR license with all
>>whitetail, turkey, and mule deer
>>tags included is $315. No
>>draw. No comparison to WY
>>NR license and tag costs.
>>None.
>>
>>The app costs for draw hunts
>>are minuscule - and the
>>same for NRs as residents.
>>
>
>You conveniently left out the fact
>that after a person buys
>that $315 license that they
>then are required to purchase
>a bunch of stamps and
>permits in order to use
>those tags attached to said
>license! If you're going
>to debate, it would be
>best to state all the
>facts involved since some of
>us do know more about
>Texas than you may think!
>

You obviously don't have a clue. A $315 NR license comes with all tags (deer and turkey) on it. They are valid and ready to use.

Incidental stamps like archery and upland bird stamp, etc. may be needed but cost is minimal and residents must purchase those also.
 
>
>>Lol your arrogance is typical of
>>residents who were born on
>>third base and think they
>>hit a triple.
>>
>>I'll continue to take my a**-
>>whoopins in the form of
>>exorbitant app fees and tags
>>to hunt western states that
>>have animals that live there
>>which I desire to hunt.
>>
>>
>>But I'll thank the good Lord
>>for those opportunities since he
>>is the one who put
>>them there.
>
>
>Make sure when you give thanks
>to the Lord for all
>those opportunities that you also
>thank Him for having the
>good grace in allowing the
>residents to grant us NRs
>the huge amount of tags
>to even hunt there!

Most states allocate 10% or less of their tags to NRs (WY is a little better). Wooeee! Then they gouge NRs so much those few tags still bring in half or more of the $$$.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-19 AT 09:03AM (MST)[p]Cbeard, how about that deer and Turkey hunt on your lease for a NR hunter? Whats that cost a guy?

We all have choices as NR hunters. If you don't like it spend your money elsewhere. When New Mexico decided to screw NR, I never demanded anything, I just chose to never spend my money there. Pretty simple really.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-19 AT 10:15AM (MST)[p]>>You conveniently left out the fact
>>that after a person buys
>>that $315 license that they
>>then are required to purchase
>>a bunch of stamps and
>>permits in order to use
>>those tags attached to said
>>license! If you're going
>>to debate, it would be
>>best to state all the
>>facts involved since some of
>>us do know more about
>>Texas than you may think!
>>
>
>You obviously don't have a clue.
>A $315 NR license comes
>with all tags (deer and
>turkey) on it. They are
>valid and ready to use.
>
>
>Incidental stamps like archery and upland
>bird stamp, etc. may be
>needed but cost is minimal
>and residents must purchase those
>also.

No, you're the one who doesn't have a clue and they aren't "incidental"! While my Dad was alive I hunted every year in Texas for over 4 decades and know exactly what the requirements are. They are called "endorsements" (see the Texas website) and you better have paid for any and all of them depending on what you're hunting and have them with your license in the field. An example is the 4 turkey tags attached to that license that aren't valid until the endorsement fees are paid and the stamps are then attached to the tag(s) and signed. Try waterfowl hunting without the state stamp and $28.50 Federal Stamp and see where that gets you! Texas has a full friggin page of stamps and permits that come under the "endorsement" classification.
 
Again, no clue. Either that or you're just embarrassed now and have to try and save face.
The total cost of every stamp (or ?endorsement? as you wrongly call them) one could buy added together is negligible. They are like the $10-12 conservation or habitat stamps western states often require.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-19 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]Again, no clue. Either that or
>you're just embarrassed now and
>have to try and save
>face.
>The total cost of every stamp
>(or ?endorsement? as you wrongly
>call them) one could buy
>added together is negligible. They
>are like the $10-12 conservation
>or habitat stamps western states
>often require.

You have got to be a fool saying what you did and now twice saying I don't have a clue. Here are just the first couple licenses C/Pd right from the Texas website and it says on each one "endorsement requirement apply" Those stamps, permits, etc. and other endorsements total in the hundred of dollars if/when a person needs them for a particular hunting, fishing, or trapping activity so please don't come back with any more BS. An honest debate is one thing. A debate where you don't know what you're talking about and keep posting incorrect statements is a waste of my time and any of the members that then take the time to read your garbage!


Non-Resident Licenses
Valid only to hunt banded game birds (bobwhite quail, partridge, pheasant, mallard ducks) on private bird hunting areas. UPLAND AND MIGRATORY BIRD ENDORSEMENT REQUIREMENTS APPLY
License Package Item Fee Description
Non-resident General Hunting 105 $315 Valid to hunt any legal bird or animal (including deer). ENDORSEMENT REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
Non-resident Spring Turkey 118 $126? Available after February 1st Valid to hunt turkey only during the open spring turkey season. Holders of this license are exempt from the upland game bird endorsement requirements. (Unlawful to possess both this license and a valid Non-Resident General Hunting License.)
Non-resident Special Hunting 107 $132 Valid to hunt:
Exotic animals,
all legal game birds (not valid for turkey),(/li>
all nongame animals, squirrel, javelina and alligator (not valid for other game animals, not valid for deer).
ENDORSEMENT REQUIREMENTS APPLY

EDIT: Now click on this link for all those other costs that you say when added together are negligible:

https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/licenses/public/recreational/index.phtml
 
There appears to be some history between you all that I don't understand. There seams to be anger between a few parties here hopefully you can make amends and move on.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-19 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]>There appears to be some history
>between you all that I
>don't understand. There seams to
>be anger between a few
>parties here hopefully you can
>make amends and move
>on.


The "History" is that some come on here and just post BS as facts while the other side knows what in the heck is FACT and proves it! BS like cbeard has been posting tends to stir the pot quickly. The last few posts of his were completely incorrect BS and shown to be such in my posts.
 
Those ?endorsements? seem pretty low to me. I like how Topgun brings up the ?Federal? stamp in his argument that Texas licenses/stamps are expensive.
 
I agree and stopped applying in NM as well, but if prices continue to increase faster than inflation then only the rich will be able to hunt out of state and everyone else has to hunt only their own state I guess. I understand supply and demand.....states manage resources....residents rightfully have more say and cheaper licenses....just hoping I dont get priced out with my kids at some point.
 
Tell your kids to get a job mowing grass to pay for their licenses.

The "kid" argument gets old. I never hunted out of State until I paid my own freight for tags. Matter of fact my first out of state hunt was 1995, 16 years after I bought my first hunting license.
 
>https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/licenses/hunting-licenses-and-permits/
>
>The $126 endorsement is only to
>hunt spring turkeys and not
>required if you have the
>$315 license. It's actually illegal
>to possess both. See link
>above. Not entirely sure why
>we are arguing over Texas...
>

No kidding, LOL!!! Seeing as I was the one that put that post up regarding endorsements I certainly read that exemption that is very similar to Wyoming not requiring the archery permit if you have a Type 9 archery only tag. That really has nothing to do with the other endorsements being discussed.
 
>Those ?endorsements? seem pretty low to
>me. I like how
>Topgun brings up the ?Federal?
>stamp in his argument that
>Texas licenses/stamps are expensive.


I see you're now back with a couple more comments, but how low is pretty low?! FYI the reason I brought them up when he turned the thread into talk about Texas is because of all the bitching NRs have been doing on the Wyoming threads about extra fees of all sorts being tacked on. Granted it's a Federal Stamp we pay in every state to hunt waterfowl and that most states add another one of their own on top of it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-19 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-19 AT 03:29?PM (MST)

For $315 a NR can hunt anything in Texas except draw animals (desert sheep, pronghorn).

There are minor charges for some ?endorsements?.

Draw animal costs are extremely low and all chances (R and NR) go in the same pot for every tag.

TX is an exceedingly friendly state to NRs. It's common knowledge.

No history between us, I just don't take kindly to be talked to as if I'm ignorant, when the ignorance is not mine. TOPGUN has been shown to possess less than correct knowledge on several subjects now, yet he persists in his insults and arrogance.

I have seen the type before.
 
Reminds me of the ?Grumpy Old Men? movie...Lol! I just like how BenHuntn comes on post this BS, make a few more comments and disappears...

Bring pot to boil and stir...

'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-19 AT 06:40PM (MST)[p]>For $315 a NR can hunt
>anything in Texas except draw
>animals (desert sheep, pronghorn).>
>There are minor charges for some
>?endorsements?.

***Gee, now you're admitting that a person does need to pay for some endorsements before those tags are valid just like I stated. Seems as if you ragged on me several times that the word didn't even exist, LOL!

>Draw animal costs are extremely low
>and all chances (R and
>NR) go in the same
>pot for every tag.
>
>TX is an exceedingly friendly state
>to NRs. It's common knowledge.


***Friendly don't cut it when there is little public land to hunt and most private is either locked up or so over priced that only the well healed can hunt. Dad was paying $1500 for a 1000 acre year around lease with several other guys and that was cheap when most leases in that area were $5k a gun just for the deer season.

>No history between us, I just
>don't take kindly to be
>talked to as if I'm
>ignorant, when the ignorance is
>not mine. TOPGUN has been
>shown to possess less than
>correct knowledge on several subjects
>now, yet he persists in
>his insults and arrogance.

***And what might the several subjects be that I lack less than correct knowledge of?

>I have seen the type before.


***Yep, you must have looked in the mirror!!!
 
Top,

It is $7 to archery hunt and $0 to gun hunt. There are no real fees.

You are correct that it is expensive to lease land and find access...that's for sure, but the point of the fees is not really a point you won in this argument. Texas's license is cheap, but that's about it to hunt there.
 
>Top,
>
>It is $7 to archery hunt
>and $0 to gun hunt.
> There are no real
>fees.
>
>You are correct that it is
>expensive to lease land and
>find access...that's for sure, but
>the point of the fees
>is not really a point
>you won in this argument.
> Texas's license is cheap,
>but that's about it to
>hunt there.

I believe all I said was that there were more fees called endorsements in the statute that had to be paid before those deer and turkey tags that are attached to the Texas license are valid. I didn't know you were keeping a scratch pad of who won what in these discussions or I would have tried to be more clear, LOL!
As I also mentioned earlier, the only reason I even brought it up was because many NRs are bitching about all the different extra fees being tacked on by Wyoming.
 
Never really had a dog in the fight when it came to NR points. Now seeing how people like founder have abused the system, I hope it gets changed. I feel bad for those people wanting to share their points with family, but like they say it usually only takes a few people to screw things up for others.
 
>Never really had a dog in
>the fight when it came
>to NR points. Now seeing
>how people like founder have
>abused the system, I hope
>it gets changed. I feel
>bad for those people wanting
>to share their points with
>family, but like they say
>it usually only takes a
>few people to screw things
>up for others.

That darn Founder, how dare he find new hunting buddies and use the point sharing system as it was meant to be used by share points with his hunt buddies just like anyone else in the world can do! ha ha ha

It's funny. It's crazy that some of you get so worked up and search for whatever you can to try and get to me.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>>Never really had a dog in
>>the fight when it came
>>to NR points. Now seeing
>>how people like founder have
>>abused the system, I hope
>>it gets changed. I feel
>>bad for those people wanting
>>to share their points with
>>family, but like they say
>>it usually only takes a
>>few people to screw things
>>up for others.
>
>That darn Founder, how dare he
>find new hunting buddies and
>use the point sharing system
>as it was meant to
>be used by share points
>with his hunt buddies just
>like anyone else in the
>world can do! ha ha
>ha
>
>It's funny. It's crazy that some
>of you get so worked
>up and search for whatever
>you can to try and
>get to me.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

While using your site to their advantage also...You?d think they wouldn't want to be here...Crazy how that works! Lol


'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
I honestly don't see what the big deal is I've help people draw tags and people have help me draw tags. Seams to work and people don't have to share points if they don't want to.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-19 AT 01:52PM (MST)[p]So we are supposed to be his puppets because we use his site. Man talk about sheeple. It's ok GeorgeE you can think and speak your own words while using founders site, I am sure that's how its supposed to work.

Did you get that autograph?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-19
>AT 01:52?PM (MST)
>
>So we are supposed to be
>his puppets because we use
>his site. Man talk about
>sheeple. It's ok GeorgeE you
>can think and speak your
>own words while using founders
>site, I am sure that's
>how its supposed to work.
>
>
>Did you get that autograph?

LMAO...You're a bigger DA than I thought! Anyone say anything about being 'puppets'...Just voicing my opinion like you enjoy voicing yours! No, no autograph needed or wanted!




'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
>I honestly don't see what the
>big deal is I've help
>people draw tags and people
>have help me draw tags.
>Seams to work and people
>don't have to share points
>if they don't want to.
>

That's the way it should work, however people don't see it that way anymore...Unfortunately!




'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
What about the guy who has been saving points for years only to be passed over by someone who hasn't. It's ok I guess as long as it doesn't happen to you or your family. Right?
 
>What about the guy who has
>been saving points for years
>only to be passed over
>by someone who hasn't. It's
>ok I guess as long
>as it doesn't happen to
>you or your family. Right?
>
+1 This aspect will quickly be dismissed by those that have benefitted from who they know and their ability to send a PM.
 
There should be a family/friends catch, but where do you draw the line?!? People in all states have done it for a very long time, can tell you about some NV stories!

Now point selling?!? That's a whole different can to kick down the road...

'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
I don't post on this site much because there always seems to be drama or ulta egos battling. I'm just one of those piece of chit NR hunters in WY, NM, Co. This got me thinking seriously. Why do I contribute to the various wildlife conservation groups like RMEF & Mule Deer Forever and Fanatics etc. I can't hunt them in my own state. Its all about supporting habitat and conservation and giving our time and money. I just can't believe the brash comments being posted.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-19 AT 05:26PM (MST)[p]Agreed there should be. I would hate to see kids miss a chance to hunt with family, because of a few greedy individuals like founder. You don't see founder playing these types of games in his home state of Utah. He is taking advantage of Wyoming and other hunters who have stood in line buying points for years. Then he tries to spin it, telling everyone he's sharing points with "friends", even though he has never met these "friends" before the point sharing (oh ok). Some of you can believe whatever you want, but I will call it as I see it. A self serving individual..
 
>
>There should be a family/friends catch,
>but where do you draw
>the line?!

Should there be? Why are any one persons family and friends more deserving than anyone else?

No matter how you slice it someone is not getting a tag. Why is my son more deserving of a tag, than someone else that has waited longer? Why is Founder more deserving of that G tag than someone who has waited 6 years for it? Is it because he spends a lot of time scouting? Because he is very good at finding mature bucks? Because he made a good friend while on the hunt? Because he can make a few bucks?
 
I just can't figure out why a resident would care? Is it that founder is such a great hunter residents are scared they might have to compete with him for a buck?

In a few years point creep will make this impossible in G.
 
>I just can't figure out why
>a resident would care? Is
>it that founder is such
>a great hunter residents are
>scared they might have to
>compete with him for a
>buck?
>
>In a few years point creep
>will make this impossible in
>G.

That's a legit question, and I'll give you some legitimate answers.

Residents have NR family and friends that are getting screwed by the current system.

Secondly, its already been pointed out by the WYGF that if a resident preference point system is adopted for elk, deer and pronghorn, its going to mirror the current NR system.

If that were to happen, you can bet that guys like me and others, will be buying points for neighbors, friends, etc. They will be very cheap and even buying an additional license/tag for your non-hunting neighbors would be no big deal. I would pay that in a heartbeat and throw my neighbors tag right straight in the garbage. The only thing keeping NR's from doing that is the price of the tags.

Sometimes, while I know its difficult for many on this board, people need to think big-picture and not about themselves and how they can game the system for their next tag.

For the record, I wouldn't be at all opposed to adopting regulations that points can only be averaged between siblings, parents/grandparents and their kids/grandkids. No point averaging for anyone else, period.
 
For the record, I wouldn't be at all opposed to adopting regulations that points can only be averaged between siblings, parents/grandparents and their kids/grandkids

Thats the way id like to see it regulated if it has to happen!

Although for you residents on the ground floor.
You may have families with step parents, step sibling...14 kid siblings with 10 of them non hunters...if a loop hole exist people will take advantage of it.
 
Why in the world does it have to be the same as non-residents? If so, point averaging has to go as it will be abused by residents at current prices. Just make them different, pretty simple.
 
I agree 100% with nripepi?.why would a Wyo res pt system need to be identical to nonres? There are a number of reasons I can think of that it would likely need to be different for Wyo residents. What happens when most Wyo res have 0 pref pts and a nonres moves to Wyo that has accumulated a pile of pts? Will pref pts transfer or will nonres that have paid for years of pts be forced to start over? What happens if a nonres with pref pts moves to Wyo and then moves back out of state? I can think of several others that I won't share on the internet that would definitely benefit nonres over residents if the system was similar.
 
>I agree 100% with nripepi?.why would
>a Wyo res pt system
>need to be identical to
>nonres? There are a
>number of reasons I
>can think of that it
>would likely need to be
>different for Wyo residents.
>What happens when most Wyo
>res have 0 pref pts
>and a nonres moves to
>Wyo that has accumulated a
>pile of pts? Will
>pref pts transfer or will
>nonres that have paid for
>years of pts be forced
>to start over? What
>happens if a nonres with
>pref pts moves to Wyo
>and then moves back out
>of state? I can
>think of several others that
>I won't share on the
>internet that would definitely benefit
>nonres over residents if the
>system was similar.

My buddy in Sheridan kept buying his moose points when he was transferred out of state several different times and then drew the tag a couple years after he moved back and retired.
 
Moose is obviously similar for Wyo res and nonres since they started off at the same time. Wyo deer, antelope, and elk are different since nonres have a giant jump in years for points.
 
Well its irrelevant what we want. We're nr and it is what it is. You just got to go with the flow in all other states you apply as Nonresidents.

Thankfully I never have considered sharing going into this and my boys have equal points here. So when or if this ever passes there gold. It would however screw a family with staggered points trying to maximize there investment and that fricken sucks!

Chances are slim IMO that outfitters will let this pass anytime soon. Also a couple have pointed out the high percentage of nr apps that share. At or over 50%? Thats hear say as I have no research to back that up. Again, Its your state, and we have no dog in the fight.

Yea, I talked crap way up above. Just to screw with a few of you guys. After all, when shits being thrown everyone needs a little thrown back, to keep it equal. :) Frankly, when I first saw the thread. I figured it was ment to piss off a couple guys. Now after benhuntn's last post, the writings on the wall.
 
I don't post on here a lot but this subject sure seems to have made a lot of hackles rise.

Reminds me of a Homeowners Association meeting; nothing better to do than complain about what somebody else is doing. seems to me that if people minded their own business instead of worrying so much about others (legal activity) we would all be better off and maybe lower our blood pressure a bit.


I don't sell my points, I don't share my points but would do so in a heartbeat if I could share a hunt with my son, daughter, father, cousin or co-worker and I really don't see why or how that rubs some folks the wrong way, it is legal and really is nobody's business what I do with my points, after all I paid for them.

I don't mind if folks want to change the law either, just quit the petty payton place politics! This place has quit becoming a place to share experiences, point people in the right direction and advance the enjoyment of the sport to residents and non-residents alike and become the soap box for a few....

Now let the flaming begin...?.
 
Long time lurker and recently rejoined after my account from 10 years ago was lost. Since not all of were "born on third base", I haven't been out west in 20 years due to life and family. I started looking into it again and am now 55 with a few points in WY for elk and deer but I haven't been anywhere yet.

There weren't really any forums back in the '90s when I headed west last, but of the few boards and FB groups I've joined, I've been really shocked at the outright hatred of NR hunters in pretty much every western state. My western experience back then was exactly the opposite. Several residents helped us have a successful and enjoyable hunt, and we never had any issues with anyone else.

I'm in PA, and for $102 I think you can come here and hunt a buck, a fall turkey and a spring turkey along with small game. For and extra $37 you can hunt the biggest black bears in the world while you are here. Elk licenses are all one pool Res and NR and everyone pays $11 to apply and get a bonus point (no license required to apply). If drawn, your bull tag will run $250. PA has well over a million, maybe 2 million acres open for public hunting without any stamps or fees which holds almost all the elk most of the bear, and has good deer and turkey numbers.

I post this just for reference. As NR, we are all used to what we know. In the west, this means bringing in 75% or more of the money will come from NR. Most of the east, certainly east of the Mississippi River, it's the other way around. In PA residents pay over 80% of all license fees. To my knowledge in the last 40 years, there's never been the clamoring to demand NR pay more here and get less licenses like I see on almost all the western forums.

What the point of all this? IDK, but no matter what your "system" is there will always be a weak point. I bought into WY for bonus points because I liked the system and I haven't bought any others from anywhere else. I invested in here and I'd be fine leaving it just like it is. That said I applied this year in AZ, but I will still buy my WY points this year. At some point it seems silly to keep sending a hundred bucks a year to someplace that can't stand me. I'll probably figure out how to use them up soon and go from there.

Here's some good reading for people that want to actually know the numbers and see who is really footing the bill.

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm
 
3D makes some good points, though I don't know that hunting forums reflect the opinions of the general hunting population. I haven't heard a resident complain about a non resident in years. I'm not sure most even give them a thought.
 
>3D makes some good points, though
>I don't know that hunting
>forums reflect the opinions of
>the general hunting population. I
>haven't heard a resident complain
>about a non resident in
>years. I'm not sure most
>even give them a thought.
>

That's just it, I've never had a bad experience in any of the states I've gone to hunt and fortunately that's been several...Only time it ever comes to light is on ?forums?...The internet has a way of doing that! Lol



'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
George and mmwb bring up a good point in that since I haven't been west yet (planning on this year), I don't really know what the folks on the ground will be like. Assuming things will be materially different than last time is probably wrong.

It's easy to be cynical sitting behind a laptop 2000 miles away and taking the posts of a few as representative. Sometimes I forget that.
 
Sounds great and all until people waiting for some of the controlled units. It will take take them even another lifetime to draw a sorry unit. Either way is fine, I'll simply move to Wyoming, how would you like that????


Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
>George and mmwb bring up a
>good point in that since
>I haven't been west yet
>(planning on this year), I
>don't really know what the
>folks on the ground will
>be like. Assuming things
>will be materially different than
>last time is probably wrong.
>
>
>It's easy to be cynical sitting
>behind a laptop 2000 miles
>away and taking the posts
>of a few as representative.
> Sometimes I forget that.
>

You make me shake my head as you are as much of the internet forum problem as any. You conveniently forget the posts of some nonresidents on here, calling residents idiots, selfish and uneducated. My take is a little different: the few bad apples ruin it for the rest. There would be no discussions about sharing points and selling big game locations, had not nonresidents posted selling their points and Founder advertising on this site selling deer locations; examples of how to "bastardize" the system.

I value the friendships of the few nonresidents that I've come to know through this and another forum. I don't consider them a "NR", but a friend. Friends that value hunting here as much as I do. They don't complain about the cost, but value the experience.
 
3D nailed it for me.

It's one thing to pay a huge part of a state?s freight as a NR and get crumbs in return.

It's another thing for the residents of those states to figuratively slap you in the face for your troubles.
 
Couple things.

The first thing that NR's need to understand, Wyoming is not mandated to give you a single tag. There is nothing in law, statute or regulation to give you access to any of our wildlife. So, as such, anything we want to share is at our pleasure.

Secondly, don't over-play your hand on funding. According to the data provided from the USFWS, NR's paid about 18 million in license fees, residents 6 million.

Combined, license fees account for less than 1/3 of the annual budget.

The GF is currently operating at about 75-80 million a year, the balance of the budget is not being funded by NR's. Things like the PR/DJ, WWNRT, Grants, donations by Wyoming specific conservation orgs, etc. etc. make up the remaining 50-55 million in operating budget. Don't break your arm patting yourselves on the back.

Many Residents would gladly pay more for their fees to keep more opportunity with resident hunters.

Finally, like JM77 I have helped many non resident hunters from this and other forums here in Wyoming. Non residents from all over the country including WI, MN, ND, CA, OR, MT, AZ, IN, OH, AK, CO, ID. I would consider them all friends that like to hunt. I've also hosted many of them at my "double wide" here in Laramie and do all I can to roll out the red carpet.

A few from January of 2019...a highschool buddy from Montana and his 2 cousins from North Dakota.

IMG954298.jpg


jpeg-imag.jpg


IMG954268.jpg
 
This point change thing is just a "follow our lead and share our views, OR ELSE!" tactic. Just do and feel as they say and they'll continue to allow us to hunt Wyoming, but only after we say "Pretty please". ha ha

Someday they'll begin using the same tactics to force their beliefs on the residents of Wyoming too, if they haven't already.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>Old saying:
>
>If you aren't at the table,
>you're on the menu...hint.

True, true. You are in a good position to push your agenda.

There are a lot of people who are pissed about SFW here in Utah, but Don and the boys put themselves at the table and definitely have the ears of the ultimate decision makers.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
That was about what I expected I guess. Regurgitation of the same stuff ad nauseam. One or two don't speak for the masses. Lots of head fakes and "SQUIRREL!" from that side.

A few totally missed my point, which was that we mostly know what we grew up with. No doubt some (VERY VOCAL) residents of just about any western state are anti-NR (except their relatives and friends). No doubt some residents are very pro NR as the have a big economic impact on their lives. And no doubt a big chunk in the middle could not care less because it just doesn't impact their daily lives or hunts. Here in the east, I can honestly say that I can't say I've ever seen an article or had a discussion about NR hunters in PA, even though they have access to everything residents have with some very minor nuances. It just doesn't impact us in a way that anyone feels like they are stealing something from the residents.

The fact that this post has almost 200 replies about residents should tell NR how they should be able to use their points clearly shows there always going to be some of the former. And everyone can have an opinion. Well, apparently it turns out not if you are a NR.

Again, at the end of the day, the way the system was created and used doesn't impact the number of NR tags. Those tags are going to be issued and hunted by somebody. Residents going to the Legislature to decide WHO has those tags is really nothing more than style points. In my unwanted NR opinion.
 
The reason that NR hunters don't pay as much for a tag in PA, versus Wyoming, is pretty obvious. The hunt quality found on public land in WY compared to PA is pretty intuitive. Also, pronghorn, mule deer, elk, etc. are pretty scarce in PA.

Why would I travel from Wyoming to hunt whitetails or black bears in PA? In particular when I have very good hunting for both in my home state as well as many states between myself and PA that are better for whitetails. I could head to MT, ID, OR, or WA for better black bear hunting, all much closer.

There is nothing worth paying for in PA for the average hunter from MT, WY, CO, etc. Maybe some exception if you had free access to some very good private there. May be a different conversation for people coming from a neighboring state. Even then, many NR of PA might it to be undesirable if they come from a state with equal or the same quality and access for a much cheaper price.

Frankly, PA is probably charging about all they can...and even then, they don't attract many NR hunters.

I can hunt most, if not all, of the species found in PA and find better quality across the board elsewhere.
 
I spent the first 22 years of my life in PA. The next 40 (and counting) have been spent in Wyoming.....No need to say more....Well, on further consideration, I would have to say the gray squirrel hunting was better in PA. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-19 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]"Frankly, PA is probably charging about all they can...and even then, they don't attract many NR hunters.

I can hunt most, if not all, of the species found in PA and find better quality across the board elsewhere."

2018 WY NR licenses, tags, permits, etc. 71,365

2018 PA NR licenses, tags, permits, etc. 101,278

Somehow, the perceived caliber of hunting in PA is now a factor as to how NRs use their points in WY? I'm not sure why that's relevant, but it actually would appear that WY doesn't attract that many NR hunters. I mean PA sold 30,000 more NR licenses than WY, and has been established, PA doesn't attract many NR hunters. It would also be worth noting that in PA, your license includes your tags for buck deer, spring turkey and fall turkey and all small game and upland birds except pheasant. No habitat permits, etc, to inflate numbers. And it's a far cry from what it was 40 years ago. We only have three big game species, but the top end of PA's animals are easily as good or better than WY for those three. Again, that's not relevant as to how NR WY hunters use their points.

I can hunt most, if not all of the species found in WY and find better quality across the board elsewhere too, especially since I have no interest in pronghorn. But if we all sat at home doing the same thing every day, we'd spend our whole lives in a 10 mile radius of where we were born. Sounds boring to me.

Style points.
 

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