NR Preference Points Change

LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-19 AT 07:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-19 AT 07:50?PM (MST)

What is relevant is that if you don't think WY is treating you fairly as a NR, you can just choose not to hunt here. You wont be missed, applications are through the roof and have grown for the last several years.

I don't believe that New Mexico treats me fairly any longer, so I don't apply there anymore. I don't think the Residents there hate me, I think they want to reserve more of the resources for their Residents...and rightfully so.

What I wont do is cry like a 10 year old that NM Residents need to treat me better and they owe me something. They don't. I also don't feel that they hate me because I'm a NR. Their game, their rules...simple really.

Not sure why you try to make it sound as if WY is the only State, where its residents aren't allowed to treat NR differently and grossly favor their residents.

We are allowed to and we do, just like every other State.

That includes, but not limited to, how we want to see the NR portion of our tags distributed by a point system.

Just the way it is...style points and all.
 
Since Wyo res don't seem to be nonres friendly.....all nonres are welcome in colorful Colorado! Our small town communities welcome you with open arms! Nonres provide a boost to our small town business's that boost their economies. Wyo res don't seem to like the color green so you are certainly welcome here! We have OTC elk and OTC archery antelope tags you can purchase over the counter and hunt every year! Colo is tough to beat as far as quality moose and muledeer....the B&C books don't lie! Muledeer draw odds are pretty darn good...especially if you bow or muzzy hunt.

I'm somewhat baffled that some of the Wyo res on this forum are so far-sighted that they could care less about the millions of $ that nonres hunters bring to their communities? Maybe those Wyo res that complain on this forum have nothing to loose? How about those owners of gas stations, grocery, and sporting goods stores in small rural towns in Wyo?

Take notice of just about every small town in Western Colo during hunting season....you'll notice all the "welcome nonres hunter signs!" Go south young man!
 
I had never realized it until he pointed it out, but jims is right. The biggest jerk I have ever come across in the mountains was driving a band-aid colored Tacoma at Green River Lakes during the Eclipse in 2017. Yeah, it's only one example, but it sticks. When I've been in Colorado during hunting season the number of "Welcome Hunters" signs is overwhelming. It's really cool, but something you don't see at that level in Wyoming.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Again, don't know where you came up with me saying WY doesn't treat me fair. The OP we are commenting on was one person's suggested change, apparently looking for comment and agreement. I disagreed and said I'm good with WY leaving things just like they are, like a lot of other posters.

I don't know anyone in WY, I've never set foot in WY, and I wasn't thinking of point sharing in WY. I'm still fine with it. If a couple of the residents I've never met don't care for me and want to cry like 10 year olds that the wrong NR is hunting, I'm fine with that.

You know, PA has a small vocal minority that has roadblocked change for their own selfish reasons, change that would have zero impact on them. Amongst those proposals is to permit Sunday hunting. The lack of Sunday hunting is probably the #1 reason PA has fewer NR hunters. Thankfully, that ancient blue law looks to be headed the way of the do-do bird.

Since you seem to be a "last word" kind of guy, I'm done on this thread. Pretty much the end game is "because I'm a resident and that's what I want, no matter how petty it is or what collateral damage there is."
 
"I'll simply move to Wyoming, how would you like that????"

Welcome. If you end up in my neighborhood, I'll buy you lunch.
 
>What about the guy who has
>been saving points for years
>only to be passed over
>by someone who hasn't. It's
>ok I guess as long
>as it doesn't happen to
>you or your family. Right?
>
What ifs are ridiculous and pointless. As long as the rules are the same for everyone. Meaning we all have the same opportunity to share, then why does it matter?
 
the way i see it. the real reason for not wanting point sharing is they know if residents get a point system the abuse will be off the charts. they will get points for everyone they can becuase the points will be dirt cheap. my suggestion is for residents to pay the same price as nonresidents for points. that should cut down on a lot of the abuse. shouldn't be hard to get residents behind it seeing as how they would gladly pay more to support game and fish.
 
As mentioned earlier, if Wyo res ever have pref pts for antelope, elk, and deer it doesn't mean that the res pref pt system has to match the nonres pref pt system. They would have to change things for Wyo res anyway because a nonres moving to Wyo would suddenly have a pile of pts since most Wyo res would be just starting off with 0 pts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]I believe that the G&F has already stated that if a resident point system is ever approved by the Legislature for antelope, deer, and elk that the Commission would then write the Regulation to be identical to our existing NR PP system. Leaving the PP averaging system like it is now would lead to rampant abuse in a resident system, as mentioned above. The easiest way to stop that abuse BEFORE it even started would be to make a simple change ahead of time to eliminate averaging in the NR Draws along with disallowing NRs moving to Wyoming to jump over the existing residents and then write the resident Regulation to match it.
 
how would you have a system where a NR's points wouldn't roll over if he became a resident? I'm not arguing I just don't see how you'd do it.


I suppose either let him stay in the NR pool at resident prices or give him max resident points each time until his NR points are used up.

Interesting debacle. and a good reason to start all point programs at the same time.












Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19 AT 08:12PM (MST)[p]I honestly can't remember ever hearing anyone say they were driving 24 plus hours to hunt PA. Comparing Wyoming and PA....well there isnt even a comparison. If you don't like what Wyoming is, or isnt doing feel free to stay home and hunt away. PA maybe a hunters paradise to you east coasters, but we all know the truth.

How many people would be upset if you were standing in line at a restaurant and someone stepped in front of you, or your family. I bet everyone of you here would be pissed and say something. So why is it any different when it comes to hunting? Oh let me guess you guys are all selfish and as long as you get your tag, and no steps in front of you, it is ok.

Ocho, I would have to agree with you about your points. I don't think you should lose them if you move here. Interesting idea about staying in the NR pool at resident prices until you use them up.

I find it funny that we have no road blocks keeping people out, but none of you are moving here. Most, just want to tell Wyoming what is needed. Gather up the family and move on out. Put up or shut up.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19 AT 08:18PM (MST)[p]Dmandoes, are we supposed to take advice from you when you don't even know how to capitalize your letters. Brilliant...
 
Bryon,
I know most of the residents didn't want a points system. Is this being pushed on you via majority of residents or is this all prep for if it happens.
 
Currently if a nonres moves to Wyo and becomes a res he no longer can accumulate pref pts for antelope, deer, and antelope unless he moves away and becomes a nonres.

What happens if a nonres moves to Wyo with max pts? In Topguns scenario he would loose all his pref pts. What happens if that same nonres moves away and becomes a nonres?.does he swap out all his original nonres pts when he was a nonres for his more res pts?


Topgun where did you come up with the notion that the WG&F has stated that Wyo nonres are going to have an identical pref pt system to res if residents get a pt system? I'm pretty sure you are mistaken!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19 AT 09:35PM (MST)[p]Sorry to break it to you, however when a NR moves to Wyoming and waits a year to become a resident he foregoes his NR points. The NR points do not come with you when you move to Wyoming.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19 AT 10:05PM (MST)[p]Freddie, I don't think most want PP, but I could be wrong. Everyone I know sure doesn't. I also believe those who want PP don't fully understand how a PP system works, or what point creep is, otherwise they wouldn't be for it.

The issue I have is hunters taking advantage of other hunters. Take Founder for example. He has hunted Wyoming 7 plus times sharing points. This means 7 hunters who have been standing in line get screwed. I can promise you if his son didn't draw because of people point sharing, he would be jumping up and down. Like I said in above post. If you were standing in line at a restaurant and someone stepped in front of you and your family you would be pissed. Why is it different when it comes to hunting? Because people like him are selfish. Then he tries to blow smoke up your a%$ saying he is only sharing points with his friends. "Friends" he has never met prior to point sharing. If he was offering up a chance at a small 2x3 how many ?f these "friends" would share their points with him? I guess it's only ok when you are doing the screwing.
 
I have to say that I have been very entertained by this thread and the opinions expressed about point sharing - pro and con.
Considering the what ifs, suppose Wyo adopts res pps for deer, lope, and elk and leaves point sharing in place while also allowing NR and Res to apply together as a party, how many of the opposed res would jump ship to average with a max point nr?
Just wondering ?
 
Thanks...Gotcha...Its tough when you have LE areas..guys can't draw and the poo hits the fan... .No way around it I guess, and eventually points screw everyone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-19 AT 06:39AM (MST)[p]I definitely see both sides of the coin here. IDK any solution but have had random thoughts on sharing.

Maybe if it was mandatory for guys that share to have skin in the game (pts) it may curtail some of the sharing residents/non-residents are against.

Just say for instance, if there was a 50% rule and everyone that shared had to have at least 50% of the party's points to enter?

Then maybe have a family clause?
 
A couple other thoughts. I have seen it posted a couple times the reason residents care is because if they go to a point system it will mirror the non res. If it mirrors the non res draw I am going to assume there will be a 40% set aside for a special draw which I don't see going over very well at all.

The other thing is I don't feel like there is enough point sharing going on to really affect the odds. Maybe it is happening more then I think and it is affecting draw odds?

Instead of coming up with all kinds of ways to benefit certain people with family clauses etc they need to ban it or leave it alone. If they allow you to share with family will you have to send in a marriage certificate to get to share with your wife? Seems like a huge pita and a waste of time and resources for the department to verify you are actually eligible to apply with someone.

And GV I do plan on moving to Wyoming. Only other state that has better resident benefits vs non res benefits is Alaska IMO. Just saving up to buy a place cash so I can take a lower paying job in Wyoming and still live comfortably.
 
I also pay extra money sometimes to give myself an even better chance of drawing a tag!! Selfish I am. Think of those poor people who would?ve drawn tags if I hadn't of paid the extra money in the special draw to jump ahead in line. So selfish! Ha ha

The state of Wyoming has a system specifically designed to give some people a greater chance of acquiring a tag based on how much money we spend, but if a guy shares points with someone to give himself a better chance, then it's selfish and the system needs to be fixed.

It's sure funny how much it bothers a few of these guys that I hunt up there so often cause I have hunting buddies with points.
This year I have a hunting buddy with lots of points, PLUS I have an extra $200 to spend on the draw. Whoa!! I'm going totally selfish!!! Change the system! Change the system!!!!! Ha ha ha ha

BTW - these dudes wanting to change the system aren't trying to ?help? anyone, they're only trying to hurt a small few at the expense of all. It's silliness, but funny.

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>LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-19
>AT 09:35?PM (MST)
>
>Sorry to break it to you,
>however when a NR moves
>to Wyoming and waits a
>year to become a resident
>he foregoes his NR points.
>The NR points do not
>come with you when you
>move to Wyoming.



They sure do for moose and sheep. I have moved back and forth from Wyo to UT, to TX, to CO, back to Wyo, back to CO and then back to Wyo and never lost a PP.
 
The world is filled with different people having different advantages. I have an advantage over some simply because I can afford to pay a few hundred dollars to hunt out of state at all. Others guys with more money than me have a huge advantage in getting a Wyoming sheep tag because I can't afford $2300.00. It's the way things are in the world. Money gives some advantages, time gives others advantages, business connections give others advantages, good looks gives some of us advantages (ha ha), and on and on.

None of these guys care about helping a couple non-residents who don't get a tag because I did by applying with someone else. Heck, they'd lock every one of us out of their state if they could. No, they're just trying to find a way to get at me and maybe a couple others who inconvenience them in some way.

I'm pretty sure most can see it for what it is, just silly boo hoo "Founder hunts Wyoming more than we want him too" entertainment and ridiculousness.

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DirtyTough,

They could just allow it once every 5 years to share points per species and it would solve the issue that is being debated. I agree limiting it to family would be difficult to implement.
 
>DirtyTough,
>
>They could just allow it once
>every 5 years to share
>points per species and it
>would solve the issue that
>is being debated. I
>agree limiting it to family
>would be difficult to implement.
>


But what about the residents "if" they go to a point system? Now grandma is buying points along with her closest friends and every 5 years I get to cut in line and hunt the best elk, deer and antelope units. People do it in Arizona so I am sure it would happen in Wyoming. Do enough people do it to really matter? Obviously a few think so since this thread has 225+ posts.

Also why is it ok to do it every 5 years but not every year? When it comes to things like this I'm more of a black and white guy. Its either ok to share points or its not. Whether its once every 5 years or every year. Same with family. Just because I am related to someone doesn't make my situation more important then say two buds with one going off and getting deployed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-19 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]Limiting it to family members wouldn't be hard to implement at all.

How do you think Alaska does it with next of kin requirements for sheep, goat, and grizzly?

How do you think Montana does the same with coming home to hunt or native Montana licenses?

Both require proof of kinship...easy as pie.

Some people on this thread would have one believe that the photocopy machine, printers, scanners, email, jpeg files and the USPS are all "new" technology.

SMH...
 
I guess once I get lucky and draw a tag in the random draw these sweet resident guys will swoop in and save the day by getting rid of the random draw too......you know, cause they're looking out for the welfare and fairness for non-residents. Kind of like outfitters keeping us non-resident hunters out of the wilderness, they're just trying to keep us safe by keeping us from where bears live without them holding our hand. Ha ha

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Don't you have make believe friends in Utah that will share their points. Oh wait...Utah doesn't do it like the great state of Wyoming. You seem like the weasel type, maybe you can pull some strings with your best buddy Don.
 
Ha ha, there's the Saviour of Wyoming non-residents, calling someone a friendless weasel on the internet. Sounds about right. I'm going to cry now. I just felt a tear.

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>LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-19
>AT 01:58?PM (MST)
>
>I don't sugar coat much. Are
>you not weaseling tags?

Oh yes, the guys I apply with are totally fooled by my deceit. I trick them all! Scott probably still doesn't know how he got fooled last year into going on the best archery hunt ever and killing his best buck ever. Ha ha
All hunters are fooled by my deceit, as I use the points sharing legally and just as it was intended and anyone can do the same. Yes, I'm a tricky, deceitful person. LOL
You got me bro. Can?t get one over on you.

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Agreed that resident sharing would not work, but if the main complaint issue that someone is getting the same tag every single year that is taking others 5+ years to get, fix that loophole by only allowing it every 5 years. I hear what your saying, but I would rather it not go away all together. I understand the next to kin argument, but then I cannot share with a friend, cousin, uncle....as it was intended. Seems like my solution would be the easiest and keep most everyone happy and stop the abuse and some selling of points.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-19 AT 12:08PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-19
>AT 12:28?PM (MST)
>
>Limiting it to family members wouldn't
>be hard to implement at
>all.
>
>How do you think Alaska does
>it with next of kin
>requirements for sheep, goat, and
>grizzly?
>
>How do you think Montana does
>the same with coming home
>to hunt or native Montana
>licenses?
>
>Both require proof of kinship...easy as
>pie.
>
>Some people on this thread would
>have one believe that the
>photocopy machine, printers, scanners, email,
>jpeg files and the USPS
>are all "new" technology.
>
>SMH...


Obviously thats directed at me. IDK how Alaska does it for next of kin. When I was guiding sheep hunters up there if I recall correctly they bought their sheep tag when they got there.

IDK exactly how Montana does it either. I do know last year when a company man I was working with had to get his paperwork submitted for a come home to hunt tag or whatever he had to submit stuff from him and his mother to show proof.

I will agree that it is super easy to scan something and email it now days. I do it every day for my bonus at work. I use an app called Cam scan and it takes me about 30 seconds.

But how long does it take an employee at G&F to verify that you are next of kin, blood, married, adopted, etc? Everywhere I read says the G&F in all states need more money. You are suggesting that we burden the G&F with more overhead to stop a handful of people?

I'm pulling these numbers from memory so could be off. WB said 50% of non res elk apps are party apps. There were 23,000+ elk apps this year. Lets say half are family apps. The G&F would have to verify 5,750 apps. Just to stop a small handful of people from "cutting in line".

And you said the reason residents care is because if they go to a point system then it will be the same as the non res point system. And its not fair for people to cut in line. But that doesn't stop anyone from using mom, grandma, sisters, etc to get to the front of the line.

Its obvious you have it out for founder and jims. I have never seen someone that is your age be as petty as you were when you named the unit jims hunts. It really show's who you truly are.

And as for the F&G budget. Its no big deal. Wyoming caters to wealthy hunters. They can add another admin or two and up the CC fee from 2.5% to 3.5% and cover the additional personnel costs. Or go from 40% special tags to 60%.

Some people on this thread would have you believe its about "just in case residents go to a PP system"

petty petty petty....smh
 
Dirtytough,

First off, go look who started this thread...was it me?

Just what I thought...go hump the leg of the right person.

As to how long it takes the MTFWP to know if I'm next of kin...about 30 seconds to 1 minute would be my guess. Its the applicants responsibility to provide all the information, all the FWP person has to do is cut open the envelope, look at the forms/proof and print the tag. The application/forms are all sent to a specific address or you can do it in person at any regional office.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-19 AT 07:58PM (MST)[p]>Dirtytough,
>
>First off, go look who started
>this thread...was it me?
>
>Just what I thought...go hump the
>leg of the right person.
>
>
>As to how long it takes
>the MTFWP to know if
>I'm next of kin...about 30
>seconds to 1 minute would
>be my guess. Its the
>applicants responsibility to provide all
>the information, all the FWP
>person has to do is
>cut open the envelope, look
>at the forms/proof and print
>the tag. The application/forms are
>all sent to a specific
>address or you can do
>it in person at any
>regional office.

Yep....that's your Wyoming BHA representative exhibiting his tact, class, and emotional maturity.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-19 AT 08:38PM (MST)[p]>That's your Wyoming BHA representative exhibiting
>his tact, class, and emotional
>maturity.

Please get off these BHA BS comments, as it or any other organizations he or any of us belong to has nothing to do with this thread!

Let's get back to the discussion regarding a NR that has PPs for elk, deer, or antelope and moves to establish residency in Wyoming. Presently they do lose all their PPs as soon as they establish Wyoming residency because those animals aren't under a resident PP system like moose, and sheep are. Right now they can burn their PPs before they move and become residents and that's it. If a resident system was instituted, the Commission would/could come up with some options for that situation to make it fair to all.
 
Wyoming is high on my list to retire to get away from my liberal state and due to Wyoming?s lack of a state income tax and the resident hunting privileges.

Grosventrehunter/BuzzH, do you have any recommendations?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-19
>AT 07:58?PM (MST)
>
>>Dirtytough,
>>
>>First off, go look who started
>>this thread...was it me?
>>
>>Just what I thought...go hump the
>>leg of the right person.
>>
>>
>>As to how long it takes
>>the MTFWP to know if
>>I'm next of kin...about 30
>>seconds to 1 minute would
>>be my guess. Its the
>>applicants responsibility to provide all
>>the information, all the FWP
>>person has to do is
>>cut open the envelope, look
>>at the forms/proof and print
>>the tag. The application/forms are
>>all sent to a specific
>>address or you can do
>>it in person at any
>>regional office.
>
>Yep....that's your Wyoming BHA representative exhibiting
>his tact, class, and emotional
>maturity.

I do agree, it was tactful, classy and emotionally mature. But you left out one thing excavator: it was funny as heck!
 
I put this post up to inform the Wyoming hunting community of what I was proposing as it relates to the NR preference point system. For some reason you have turned this into bash Buzz H. opportunity. Buzz is a pro Wyoming hunter and volunteers his time to make Wyoming a better place to hunt. Buzz is very knowledgeable
And has very informative responses. As to the people that feel the need to share points with people who they do not know just so they can achieve there agenda shame on you. Here is a definition some of you fit. Definition. The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. If this touches a nerve then maybe you need to look deep inside yourself and fix the problem.
 
Kemmerer is nice and with the turmoil at the mine, and the pending doom of the power plant shutting down you should be able to pick up a house cheap. Of course the amenities leave something to be desired. The winter lasts forever and you'll be thankful for all of the nonresident hunters that foot the bill for everything (sarc),just ask them.
 
Awesome! Now we've got a doctor in the house diagnosing the problem with people who want to share points and go hunting with someone new and have a fun hunting adventure.
It's a disorder you know!!!! Ha ha ha

I'm deceitful and my hunting buddies have disorders. It's a national emergency what's going on in this point sharing world! But leave it to a handful of guys who are out to stop me from hunting their state, they'll save the day and help all other nonresident hunters who they love so very much. (Eye Roll)

I deceived and tricked my new hunting buddy into going on his best archery hunt ever and shooting this super cool buck. I guess his disorder got the best of him.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2019/76328251d03fa389b4b5ca7a89439926767cb.jpeg

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Somethin I've never understood with this whole deal, why does somebody wait till they have twice the points they need to draw when they could be goin on their second hunt at that point?



#livelikezac
 
BenHuntn, I agree with you that Buzz volunteers a lot of time for the good of public hunters. I would disagree that he has majority of nonres in mind trying to change pt averaging. The overwhelming response on this post by nonres is to leave pt sharing as it is for nonres! There are so few negatives and so many positives to leaving pt sharing as it is. All the WG&F needs to do if Wyo res ever have a pref pt system for deer, elk, and antelope is to tweak a couple things for Wyo res....end of story! Pretty darn simple solution to me!

Your description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) pretty much fits Buzz's description to a T! How many "hero shot" photos....and videos has Buzz posted on this and other websites! How many times has Buzz be-littled me and others on this and other websites? I was thrilled a while back when Founder tossed Buzz off this website. Now that he has returned the quarreling continues. I bet a lot of us were relieved when he was gone?
 
Interesting comments Jim. Not sure I have seen Buzz ever post a video, but like many he has shared hunting photos. Really? In fact the person who shares the most photos and videos is Founder, but somehow I doubt anyone, including myself has seen that as an issue.

The one thing you Jim have the distinction for, and forever will, is the accusation you made on another forum about two of the best human assets we as hunters have. Of course you were quite handily put in your place in one of the most memorable b**ch slappings in hunting forum history.

Pot meet tea kettle...
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-19 AT 10:39AM (MST)[p]I would have to agree. They could of hunted 2 or 3 times already with the points they have. Maybe they were holding out for some of the units that are no longer what they used to be.
 
>Somethin I've never understood with this
>whole deal, why does somebody
>wait till they have twice
>the points they need to
>draw when they could be
>goin on their second hunt
>at that point?
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

Life happens...If you're like me and applying in other states, it might be timing! That and as G said, units change, winter kill happens, could be a number of things...I never expected to have the points I have now, but it is nice to be able to plan some now...

That and maybe make a lil extra cash...Doh! ;-)



'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
I find comments like Jim Sebastian's interesting.

In particular when the owner of this board, has photo contests every year. I also hear many people claim they really enjoy the stories and pictures of hunting shared on these boards. Then jims claims, that if people post up pictures, they're a narcissist and bragging?

I find this goes with the territory of the insecure in the hunting community, that they just cant imagine that people find success, year in and year out, hunting on their own. Some people have what it takes, some don't, that simple.

When you're good at what you do, its just bound to piss some folks off and create huge piles of jealousy.

This isn't just limited to hunting and fishing, its like that in life in general.

I also find it odd, that many routinely say that "hunters need to get involved, they need to be at the table, someone needs to do something".

When you make that step to advocate for wildlife, public lands, hunting etc., you're immediately criticized by those that are on the sidelines doing absolutely nothing.

I hear every excuse under the sun from the sideline experts...I cant get there, my old lady wants to go on vacation, I have kids in sports. Yeah, whatever, funny that they all have time to post on hunting boards, plan out of state hunts, but no time to advocate for what they supposedly care so much about. All just convenient excuses, and if it really mattered, then they would find the time to do something.

Again, the complaining from those that don't, directed at those that do, is to be expected and very typical.

A very good friend of mine has said countless times, and its absolutely true, that the more flak you take, the closer you are to being right above the target.

I'm very comfortable with advocating for wildlife, public lands, access, G&F issues, etc. and have the knowledge, time, and ability to do it. I also have a circle of friends that are very good at these items as well...and we get things done. If others don't like the way we go about it...too bad, get off the couch and start advocating for yourself.

I'll not apologize for being successful...ever.
 
Buzz you are right. It would only take 30-60 seconds for a gov worker to open an envelope, verify that all documents match, then login and put a check by your name, then a check by your brothers, kids, uncles, grandmas, etc name. Please at least use something believable like 5 minutes an app.

And why would you want to burden your states game and fish with more overhead? I'll use your figure of 1 minute an app even though I truly believe it bs. That would be 95.83 extra hours to process apps for just elk. That's not antelope and deer apps. Not only does that cost your game and fish money that also allows certain people to cut in line. Which cutting in line is fine if its you and grandma or if its you and your brother called $.

Now I know Wyoming caters to people that are well off so they can cut in line. But using hard earned knowledge to cut in line is bs!! We need to stop it this instance!! Only allow the wealthy to cut in line by using the special draw, commissioners tags, gov tags, raffles, etc. I can't believe a handful of people are using hard earned knowledge to cut in line instead of money. Shame on them.

Again Buzz you are just a petty petty petty old man worried about the non res draw because of a few people. Everyone with half a brain can see it from your posts on this thread. Why not share the areas founder scouts and hunts? You already shared one guys unit. Might as well go all the way. Petty.

Either leave as is or completely ban point sharing. 0.0001% will take advantage of it no matter what. I would rather 0.0001% cut in line then 40% cut in line through the special draw. Oh thats right though. The special draw benefits residents so its no biggie if those people cut in line.

As much as a few of you seem to really dislike what founder does and possibly founder himself. You sure help his bottom line by driving up traffic on the website he owns and makes money off of. I find that part extremely comical. Maybe if you guys help out a little more he will be able to buy a commissioners tag every year. That way he won't have to lower himself to buying the tag with hard work and knowledge :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-19 AT 02:17PM (MST)[p]>When you're good at what you
>do, its just bound to
>piss some folks off and
>create huge piles of jealousy.


Damn I couldn't of said it any better. Founder you are way to good at what you do. And the residents, guides, and outfitters are trying to get you completely shutdown because they can't compete.
 
Forgive me for being a little slow, but seems to me residents should be upset with Wyo G&F/Wyo Legislature for setting up NR PP this way, not non-residents that are complying with the law.

BTW, I don't point share and I am a former Wyo resident - some of the best years of my life, but if you don't like your laws, you should change them.
 
A very good friend of mine told me that if you have to tell everyone your successful, your probably not as a big deal as you think.

Rich
 
>As much as a few of
>you seem to really dislike
>what founder does and possibly
>founder himself. You sure help
>his bottom line by driving
>up traffic on the website
>he owns and makes money
>off of. I find that
>part extremely comical. Maybe if
>you guys help out a
>little more he will be
>able to buy a commissioners
>tag every year. That way
>he won't have to lower
>himself to buying the tag
>with hard work and knowledge
>:)

It smells awful, doesn't it?
 
Dirtytough,

Couple points:

1.

I've obtained the Montana Native license in person and by sending the application to Helena. It doesn't take one minute for a license agent to check my hunters safety card, my drivers license, my relatives drivers license, and my birth certificate. That's all they need to verify, from that point on, its no different with the application/issuance of the tag, process.

You're wayyyy overplaying the argument of it costing money to process applications/sell licenses. The MTFWP processes a metric chit ton of paper applications as well as people that go into the regional offices to apply. Entering data, selling licenses and processing applications is the cost of doing business for any GF agency.

Name me one GF agency that doesn't pay employees to process applications, issue licenses, conduct draws, etc...just one.

That's what I thought...red herring argument as a best case.

2.

The special license fee doesn't benefit me as a resident at all, in fact, I worked with a State Legislator to do away with it a few years ago. Seems more fair to me to charge one price for everyone. For the record, the tiered license fees were a result of legislation from WYOGA. The Department had NOTHING to do with it.

Myself and a couple others, also successfully fought 3 attempts by WYOGA to "swap" the regular/special fee percentages from 60/40 to 40/60. You can thank me/us later...from the same couch you were on, when myself and others were driving across the State on chit roads to stop it. If that would have passed another 20% of the available tags to NR youth at reduced price would have been taken away. Huge shout out here to JM77, he did a lot of work on this issue.

3.

Why would I care about sharing a hunting unit with a person who already does it by applying with a party of strangers to obtain a tag? If Sebastian and Founder are so worried about their areas, maybe they shouldn't show complete strangers where they hunt. Sebastian parties with strangers, shows them right where he hunts, not just the unit. Founder sells hunting packages to the areas and party applies with others.

I don't have much mercy for people that sell out their hunting spots for profit or personal gain...just don't.

4.

I don't hate founder and I don't hate Sebastian. They just care to look out for themselves above everyone, and everything else. They aren't alone, many do the same thing. The only time they do anything for anyone else is if there's something in it for them to gain. Again, they aren't alone, lots of folks in that circle, just not the circle I care to be involved in.

Me, I've always been a bit different. I don't need to make money from selling out my hunting areas. I don't need to sell out my hunting area to draw another tag. If I help others, I don't expect, or want, anything in return. I've been fortunate to be connected to some of the best hunters in the West that believe the same way. We help each other out, not because we profit from it, but because we're Sportsmen who are passionate about the future of hunting, wildlife, public lands, etc. Its a small camp, but one I'm happy to occupy...and we aren't for sale, at any price, for any reason.

So, if feathers get ruffled, so be it...just the way it goes.
 
>A very good friend of mine
>told me that if you
>have to tell everyone your
>successful, your probably not as
>a big deal as you
>think.
>
>Rich

Rich,

I tend to agree...and myself and others sandbag, a lot, at a minimum.

Seen it...
 
Buzz, let's cut to the chase....how does a guy get kicked off a hunting website...or 2..or maybe 3? Must be a pretty good reason? We certainly didn't miss you!
 
Buzz when is the statue of you getting put up? Please make sure you inform everyone and don't ?sandbag? so we can all go line up for pictures with it.

Let me get this straight. You are a resident. The Wy G&F manages its game for the residents. The special tag price goes to the G&F. How does that not benefit the residents by supplying a bigger budget for G&F to manage game?

We will have to disagree on the time it would add.

As for me sitting on the couch while you so graciously spent your time helping out the poor non res, I probably didn't even own a couch then. I don't even have cable. I work my butt off so if I want to I can afford to apply in the most expensive state as a non res (WY) along with any other state I want. So it probably didn't help me at all since I can afford the special tag price if I want.

I could pat myself on the back like yourself and say how great I am along with how successful I am in life and with everything I do. But I would probably break my arm since I'm not used to doing it as much as you are. I should probably try to learn how though so I could have a cool follower like how JM77 follows you. Maybe I could even post pics or vids on the gram. I'll have to make sure I sandbag though. And of course tell everyone I'm sandbagging.

Jims isn't breaking the law. Yet you dislike what he is doing so much that you are petty enough to post one of the areas he hunts. Use any excuse you want to try and make yourself feel like it was anything except petty and childish.

I hope when I'm your age I'm not a petty old man that has nothing better to do then worry about 0.0005% of the non res applicants that have zero effect on me. Maybe by then I'll have the technique down to pat myself on the back as much as you do without breaking my arm?
 
Why pass a law to stop one non-resident from getting a G tag every year when every single resident 12 years old and up can buy at tag good for G or any other general area every single year. And they can do it without having to locate and nurse along a max point holder every year and having your favorite hunting areas exposed to more and more people every year in the process.

I have never hunted with Founder, but I know exactly where he and his buddy got their archery bucks last year. Judging from the number of hunters at the trail head to that particular area during the rifle season last year, there must be a lot of others who know where it is too.
 
Sounds great, thanks for the offer!

Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 

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