open sights vs 1x scope?

COLOelkman

COLOelkman

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I drew a UT LE muzzy tag this year and I've always shot with a TruGlo ghost ring w/ front globe and feel fairly good about getting 2-3 inch groups at 100 yds. I wear glasses which makes the sights blur a bit but not too bad yet but I expect this deteriorates with age. Since you can use a 1x scope in UT, does anyone think this would provide any more accuracy? I'm hoping to practice out to 150 as I've only practiced at 100 here in CO which is all my range has. Since this is basically a OIL tag for me, I'd like to spend more time this year practicing some longer distances to know my limits. Thus, I'm considering whether I should monkey with another sight. My ghost ring is on a Knight 50 cal Revolution which doesn't accomodate a peep very far back in a "normal" peep position. I had the gun tapped to enable me to move the ghost ring back further than the normal position than the "V" typically is mounted, but it did not work. The ghost is too large of an opening so when it's moved back, it is extremely difficult to find the circle.
So has anyone experimented with open sights vs a 1x scope and what's your opinion?
 
I started with open sights, then switched to a 1x scope, accuracy increased quite a bit for me. The best way to find out is try one, you can pick up a scope for under 100 bucks. A good one to try would be the cabelas 1x20 pine ridge. Good luck, and which tag did you draw?
 
I drew the Manti tag with 9 pts as a NR. My buddy also drew with the same as we put in separately and didn't expect to draw for a couple years.
 
Have you tried these (assuming you wear glasses)? I think I heard about this a while back but picked up a bow last year so never pursued it but now I'm back to the open sight issue.
Do you know if you need to be shooting with both eyes open to make this effective? I need to shoot with one eye closed as I'm left eye dominant as I found out after I bought a right handed bow. Thus, as a right handed shooter, I have to close my left eye to be accurate.
 
Yes i do wear glasses in order to see LOL. Blind as a bat without them.

They've worked excellent for me. I went from having to use two 2" bulls eyes paced side by side at 50 yards to being able to use a 1" bulls eye at 100 yards with open sights. It will only get better once i update my eye glass prescription.

I always shoot with one eye closed and it works great. I will have to try keeping both eyes open and see how that goes. My brother has to keep both open in order to hit the target consistently.

www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-11 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]Had a 165 yard shot at last light on my LE elk hunt last year. No way I could have made the shot with open sights. I think at that range, if I had open sights, they would have covered the whole bull and would have been crossing the fingers when I pulled the trigger. The 1X Sightron scope helped gather that last light and could see where I was shooting with the cross hairs not covering up the whole animal.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-11 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]
At 165 yards, quartering away in the last light of dusk in the cedars and sage brush, yeah, it is hard to see much of a target with the bare eye FG.
9598mt._dutton_061.jpg

Some may disagree but I would much rather have optics to help with this shot. The bull is cirled (dropped in his tracks) and the pack is where I pulled the trigger. Wasn't much of a target for my bare eyes.
 
I know everyone is different and thier eyes are different. I know with my eyes, I do not have the focus to keep the target AND sights clear at the same time. It is either one or the other. IMHO, it is a matter of what works for you. Its fun watching the buggers fall after the cloud of smoke clears and that is what we all can agree on!
 
Great discussion, just found out I drew the Beaver Muzzy tag (the ONE and ONLY NR tag) and have to remove my 3-9 omega scope :( and am contemplating the same, only for me, haven't shot open sights on big game in quite a while. May go for 1x scope, if I don't see difference I can always put the sights on, which are pretty nice fiber optic type that came with my triumph.
 
One thing I did fail to mention is that the one 1X sightron I put on mine, I installed the quick detach bases that have lever screws on the scope rings. I prefer the scope but if there is a situation where I need or want the open sights, it takes two turns on each ring and the scope comes right off in seconds and the open sights are usable. I have taken the scope off and on numerous times and never lost its zero. So for the open sight / scope discussion, that could be done and have the best of both worlds.
 
>Great discussion, just found out I
>drew the Beaver Muzzy tag
>(the ONE and ONLY NR
>tag) and have to remove
>my 3-9 omega scope :(
> and am contemplating the
>same, only for me, haven't
>shot open sights on big
>game in quite a while.
> May go for 1x
>scope, if I don't see
>difference I can always put
>the sights on, which are
>pretty nice fiber optic type
>that came with my triumph.
>

So you are the one who drew my tag!!! Hope you have a great hunt. Tell us how it goes. I had been putting in for San Juan, but decided to try Beaver this year. With the fire in the past, there should be some lush growth and good antlers this year. Good luck!

Put me in the camp of a 1X scope when I draw.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-27-11 AT 00:14AM (MST)[p]If you are serious about the best precision possible look at the aimpoint red dot sights with 2 moa dot. legal in utah.

Comp C3
9000sc
9000L
Comp ML3

The sights are expensive but they are the best red dot sight made. The US military has been using them for years. They have the brightest dots and best battery life and are durable.

The 2 moa dot is superior in low light and cover less of the target than any crosshair in any 1x scope I have used (buris,sightron,nikon). Battery life on the sights I listed is 50,000 on low-not an issue. They are also paralax free at any distance.

I have been running a comp m 3 moa model for almost 10 years on my austin halleck shooting magnum charges-no problems.

Can group three shots in around 3 inches at 200 yards.

If you are going to go with a scope look at the sightron. And yes I would go optics if you are wanting to be effective over 100 yards.

Jon
 
My accuracy improved A LOT with a scope. The problem with one power scopes is that they push the animal out farther than your naked eye. (Your eyes are 1.5 power not 1 power) I have a Nikon Buckmaster. I looked at a lot of scope and decided on this one because if you adjust the focus on the eyepiece as far out as you can (and keep it in focus) it actually zooms in a bit. So it is more like looking with your naked eye or maybe better. I been happy with it. In fact, just for fun I target shoot out to 400 yds with it. I dial the turrets just like I do with my long range gun. I would NEVER take a shot at an animal at anywhere near that distance but it is fun to shoot it. I did shoot a magpie at 278 last fall... Go with a scope, it's a good way to go.

CSO

It's all about the good times...

MonsterMuleysLogo.png
 
I'm still in shock that I drew, I pretty much thought I was just putting in for another bonus point, as I only had 2 points going into draw. My moms got a tag here in AZ, so will take some carefull planning around work to put the time it takes to be succesful, but I'm jacked, now I just got to start scouting. Sorry I took your tag, but I'm so excited. Sorry to hijack thread, hijack over. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-27-11 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the suggestions and I'll look into a some of the scopes suggested. I think I'll definately but the stick on's for the glasses as it's a very cheap option that seems to help some people.
 
I like the Simmons 1x the crosshairs are thinner then the others I have tried. You wouldn't cover up as much of the animal with them.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Gator - I assume your reticle is just thin crosshairs and no center dot? For me I know a dot on my open signts would cover up a pie plate @ 150 so it seems that just crosshairs might be the reticle to look at whatever scope I'd consider if I go that route.
On the Aimpoints in an earlier post....they are quite expensive, and for me, I'm not sure I'm up for paying $450+ for a one time use arrangement since I won't be able to use it here in CO in the future.
The last time I really experimented with sights and tried to get accurate for long range, I ended up taking a bull at 8 yds and couldn't even use the sights!!! But I'd rather fine tune things and be prepared.
 
yep just thin crosshairs, With QD mounts for changing back to a 3x9 scope after hunting UT works pretty good when going from one state to the next in the same week and have them both(Scopes) still sighted in.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I have had the Cabelas Pine Ridge and the Sightron. I like the Sightron for that very fact. Optics are not going to be too different but the Sightron has a thinner crosshair than the Pine Ridge that is still clear to see.
 
>One thing I did fail to
>mention is that the one
>1X sightron I put on
>mine, I installed the quick
>detach bases that have lever
>screws on the scope rings.
>I prefer the scope but
>if there is a situation
>where I need or want
>the open sights, it takes
>two turns on each ring
>and the scope comes right
>off in seconds and the
>open sights are usable. I
>have taken the scope off
>and on numerous times and
>never lost its zero. So
>for the open sight /
>scope discussion, that could be
>done and have the best
>of both worlds.

This is exactly what I've been wondering. I've never tried the QD bases but it would be ideal for switching states. As long as they're trustworthy, especially with max load elk setups. Thanks for the info.
 
Does anyone know how the Sightron compares to the Nikon Buckmaster w/ Nikoplex reticle? I have this reticle on another Nikon scope and it appears quite thin in the center. I'll likely still need to see them before I decide but I'm not sure who might have these in Denver since 1X's here are not allowed. Sure wish they'd get moving on building the Cabelas here!
 
I have shot the 1X scopes for years and one thing is for certain all 1X scopes are NOT created equal. Right now I have a T/C 1X on my knight and a Pine Ridge 1X on my Apex. The Pine Ridge is twice the scope compared to the T/C. It almost looks like the Pine Ridge has magnification compared to the T/C. I have also had the Sightron on one of my guns and wasn't impressed. If you can compare scopes side my side.
 
Comparing side by side might be another problem since I live in a State where scopes are not legal for muzzy, I may not find much of a selection if any. I'll be making calls first since there's not many places near me in Denver with a good scope selection! VT did you happen to view any red dots? They seem a lot more expensive and just not sure if they are a lot more accurate for the extra $. Seems like most good red dots that people recommend are $450+.
 
The Pine Ridge I had WAS a good scope in my opinion. Especailly for the price. If they are on sale, I have sen them for $45. However, a week before my LE hunt, the recoil pulled the gun back into the rest I was using and that jar was enough to crack out the whole rear lens (what if you drop the gun and gets a worse smack than that?). When in a scramble to get a scope replaced and cabelas was the only source and had none in stock? Well, I was freaking. The Sightron hangs right in there with the Pine Ridge and I know if Cabela's is out, Sportsmans always has them on the shelf if that ever happens again.
 
I've called every sporting goods store in Denver and nobody carries 1x scopes except for red dots. I really hate to buy a scope sight unseen cause everyones eyes are a bit different! I'm just not sure if the red dots are what would be best since I have no experience with any 1x's. May have to take a drive to Sydney, NE since 1X's are legal there for muzzy's.
 
CO, Every Red Dot scope I have looked through at 100 yards covers half the elk. I had one on one of my guns when I first moved out here. Opted to take it off and hunt with iron sights that year just for that reason.

I completely understand your hesitancy on buying a scope unseen. Take a trip to Lehi UT (Cabela's) they will have plenty to look at this time of year.
 
I have friends not far from the Cabelas there so I might see if they are going to be there anytime soon and check them out. The Cabelas in Sydney, NE is a lot closer and I might check them out since they do allow 1x scopes for muzzy in NE. Thanks for your input as I'm getting closer to experimenting!
 
my $.02;

I also am not a fan of red dot scopes. I have shot with a couple (albeit cheaper ones), but was never satisfied. As far as 1X scopes, it's true that they make things look farther away (less magnification than the human eye), but they do give a solid aiming point and that I like. I have owned and hunted with the following scopes;

Nikon Buckmaster 1X20
Traditions 1X32
Simmons pro 1X32
TC hawken hunter 1X32 (rebadged simmons)


I have killed animals with all of them and they all work. The Nikon is really a pistol scope and the 20mm exit objective is too small and does not gather much light. The FOV is not great either.
The Traditions is good glass for the money and fits your budget. That is what was on my Knight when I killed a LE bull last fall.
The Simmons/TC looks the best to my eyes and sits on two of my guns right now. It is well built and easy to look through (good eye relief).

Any of the ones I mentioned can handle a good season of shooting and hunting and hold zero IF you have good rings and bases, a lot of guys whine about scopes and never think of the rings as a factor that contributes to accuracy or the lack thereof.

Traditions 1x32 worked well this fall on my knight. The gun killed 3 animals in 3 days....ranges were; 10yds(deer), 50yds(deer), and 100yds(elk)

PA020212-1.jpg





-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
 
Thanks Andyman!!! Looks like you have used about all the 1x reticle scopes that I have found listed. I was concerned about the 20mm on the Nikon so that confirms my suspicion. I'd be shooting sabots but haven't worked up a load yet as I've only shot conicals and feel very comfortable at 100+ yds. I'm wanting to sight in with a higher power scope first to ensure the bullet combo is accurate, then switch to the 1x to see what my practical limits might be with the 1x. What do you feel would be your comfort range as far as distance to shoot at an elk with your setup? Great Bull by the way!!!
 
I won't shoot farther than 200 yds, but the setup is probably good out a bit more. I have been lucky enough to have dropped every animal I have shot at with a smokepole. Here is my favorite all around load;

300gr Hornady SST ez-load sabot
90gr BH209 powder
CCI 209 primer

The three animals killed last fall with my knight all fell to that load and it will be in my new TC Omega for this fall's hunts.

-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
 
Thanks again Andyman! Do you happen to where with that load were are you zeroed in at distance-wise. Just trying to get a head start on trajectory. I was also going to try the BH209 for the first time and was considering the Barnes 290 T-EZ so I might try the Hornady also just to compare a couple different bullets. I'm used to a 370 conical so the smaller bullet will should have much better trajectory. Thanks for your help!
 
+1 That is Exactly where I have mine set. Couldn't agree more. Put the crosshais on the vitals out to 200 and pull the trigger.
 

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