Opinion: Resident Special Draw?

[G14]

There has been a lot of talk/rumors about Wyoming going to preference points for residents for elk/deer/antelope. My guess is within one to two years there will be such a system.

My question to WY residents is should WY have a special draw for residents like there is currently for non-residents? Is it a good idea? If not, why? If so, how much would you be willing to pay?

 

[Triple_BB]

Yer guess is wrong. It may happen in years to come, but it won't until the Wyoming legislature changes the law. And at this point, there have been a small but very vocal group of residents who oppose any such change. Those that grease the palms of our elected officials will probably have the most influence to change it or let things remain. I personally am in favor of a preference point system that caps points at 3 or 4 and then utilizes a bonus point system where you get an extra chance for every bonus point after you've hit max. Such a system would be fair, would take the guys out of the draw who drew a tag during the past 3 or 4 years, would still increase draw odds in all area's and you wouldn't have to wait a life time to draw some of these area's as would be the case with a pure points system like Colorado does with deer and elk.

 

[dwalton]

Worst idea I have heard in a long time. What possible good would come from dividing the resident hunters into two classes? The non-ressy special was created by WYOGA to help them get their clients tags on a more regular basis. The non-ressy and non-ressy special elk tag holders pay 11 and 20 times the rate of a resident tag. How much could the resident fee possibly be raised to even make a dent in the draw odds? I'm fairly certain that a proposal to raise the price of a resident tag by 100 to 500% would create an outrage among resident hunters (and justifiably so).

It's amazing to me how hunters keep forgetting the foundation for our wildlife conservation model. That is the wildlife belongs to the public and not royalty.

 

[dwalton]

Hey, Triple BB, I like that idea for a preference point system. Wyo's current preference point system for deer, elk, and antelope is a pyramid scheme. Miss the first year, and you will never make it to the top of the points heap to draw a tag in the best (or most popular) units like 31 and 100 elk.

 

[G14]

It is funny that Triple BB and dwalton have the same I.P. address for the post, and posted 17 minutes apart.

 

[kilowatt]

G14.......

One thing is for sure BBB and dwalton ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON.

So what is your point, you don't like their answers even if somewhat the same response?

I'm sure dwalton will be glad to reply to you since he just returned to being a Resident of WYO after about 20 + years I think.

As far as IP's forget that crap, they are not acurate on this site.

Brian

 

[G14]

Brian,

I don't mind their answers. In fact, I didn't even think about the special draw for non-residents helping out WY guides. That was a good point. Unfortunately, they WYOGA has a big influence on the state legislature, i.e. wilderness law.

The WY G & F are always looking for a way to get more money, and I thought it was a good question (notice I didn't say idea).

I don't think the IP addresses lie. They are like a cyber fingerprint. They might not be the same person, but I bet they were using the same computer.

 

[dwalton]

Kilowatt has it right..not the same person. In fact, I believe triple-bb and I have been on the opposite sides of debates before.

G14, you give no justification for creating two classes of resident hunters except for the misguided hope for better draw odds. With the cost of resident elk, deer and antelope tags being $52, $38, and $33. How much do you think the price could be raised to make a difference? As far as money goes, the state of Wyoming has a large of a surplus as some states have red ink. Like I said before, Wyoming residents would be outraged at a 100-500% increase in fees and a percentage of the quota going to these special tags.

Wyoming's points system, in its current form, also creates seperate classes of hunters. I have a 10 year old daughter. If they start the points this year, she will never get a preference tag in elk areas 31 or 100. She will be too far behind. There has to be a better way than the current program.

Once again, you asked for people's opinions. Sorry you didn't like the results.

 

[dwalton]

I can assure you that I'm sitting home alone today in Evanston, waiting for my kids to get out of school early.
Don't know who Triple-BB is.

I'll bet the IP addesses are just like kilowatt said. In fact I'll bet if you try to send me an e-mail it will be the address I had 8 years and 3 moves ago. Really, there is no conspiracy going on .

 

[kilowatt]

If memory serves me right, I believe that Triple BB is from Casper area a far cry from Evanston.

Brian

 

[elkoholic2001]

I think its a great idea to go to a preference points. It gives people better chances to drawing the harder areas. I don't think we should have any special draw permits that just takes away from all of us hard workin Wyoming residents and puts it into the hands of money. I've personally talked with a game warden and he asked what my take was and I told him that it was great idea and that we should go to. We already do for Moose and Sheep so what's the difference.

 

[dwalton]

The problem with preference points is they only give those who are in the draw the first year the point systems start better odds. Take areas 100 and 31 for elk: with draw odds currently in the 3-5% range, it will take many, many years to work through the top tier point holders. I bet those odds drop to the 1% range when points come into play. If you are a point behind you may not make it to the preference pool in your lifetime. Preference points work well for antelope where draw odds are 25-50%. It's easier to work through point holders.

The non-ressy point system was fairly easy to implement since all the tags are on a draw basis. How should the resident tags be handled? If you buy a general tag after an unsuccessful draw, will you lose your points? (If a non-ressy chooses a general elk tag, he loses his points.) What about non-residents who become residents? These people will have anywhere from 1-4 points and will be asssured of drawing under the current system! Currently moose and sheep points are rolled over when a person becomes a resident.

The problem with point systems is they always change in one way or another. Examples are: Wyoming changing the non-ressy sheep fee from $7 to $100, and Utah devaluing their point systems by allowing non-residents to apply for every specie in the 2009 draw. What you get in the end is not what you bought into.

 

[Triple_BB]

>If memory serves me right, I
>believe that Triple BB is
>from Casper area a far
>cry from Evanston.

Give that man a sea-gar!

I jumped a jet to Evanston and borrowed his puter since mine was on the fritz and then flew back home. Unfortunately I'm still flying back and forth to the SW corner until my puter is repaired...

 

[nontypical]

Make it a bonus point system,and cap the points at about 3 or so.If you still can't draw after 3 or so years of max points,you get another,and so on down the road.Also,put in a waiting period after you draw of 2-3 years.The current system really sucks unless you are one of the lucky guys that draw all the time.The bonus point system would still give the lucky ones thier chances,while increasing odds for the unlucky ones.A friend of mine that was born and raised here has NEVER drawn a deer or elk tag.I also know people that drew 102 deer 5 years in a row.The special draw for NR would not work in this state for res.You would see a major uprising!!

 

[REDDOG]

What ever you guys do, leave the non residents system as is. i like it!

 

[G14]

REDDOG,

You are right, the non residents have it sweet. I was bored the other day, so I went through some resident and non resident numbers for limited quota mule deer only. These numbers do not include general areas, or areas listed for whitetails. My numbers came from the Wyoming Game and Fish website.

The following are the #'s on non resident mule deer tags ISSUED in 2008:
Non resident random tags issued = 88
Non resident preference point (PP) tags issued = 653
Total = 741

Non resident special random tags issued = 61
Non resident special PP tags issued = 207
Total tags = 268

Grand total non resident mule deer tags issued = 1009

Resident limited quota mule deer tags issued 2008 total = 2446

1009/3455 = 29%

Non residents got 29% of total mule deer tags issued for 2008.

2008 Non resident tags total AVAILABLE = 1544
2008 Total resident tags AVAILABLE = 3239

1544/4783 = 32%

Non residents could realistically have up to 32% of the total mule deer tags for limited quota areas in Wyoming.

If Wyo gave non residents 10% of the tags, which is similar (or better) to other states there would only be 478 tags available to non residents. That would be an increase of 1,066 mule deer tags for residents for limited quota areas.

However REDDOG, the good news is most residents don't want to pay anymore $ for their deer tags, so it'll be left the way it is.

I am no statistician, so please correct me if you see errors.

 

[jims]

Hey 3B, I hope your leer jet has cooled off after running back and forth between computers!

Even though I am a Wyo nonres I think it is pretty crazy that Wyo residents aren't in favor of some sort of pref/bonus pt system. Before Wyo started a pref pt system for nonres I didn't draw an elk tag for 22 years and I have drawn 2 good elk tags in 3 years since they started! Obviously I haven't been applying for unit 31 or 100 elk tags but have still drawn decent tags. I also had only drawn 1 Wyo deer tag in 22 years and drew a great tag last year and expect to draw another super tag in the next couple years.

Obviously if you are applying for the toughest units in Wyo the draw odds won't be great and I actually like a draw system that rewards guys that apply for more years a better chance of drawing. It is somewhat frustrating when some guys may draw 2 tags in back to back years rather than going back to the end of the line (with the current no pref pt system)!

I think it would be somewhat funky having a regular/special price tag for residents? I'm not aware of any states that do this for residents..but can understand it for nonres.

 

[Blueticker]

At one point in time I was in favor of preference points for residents but i'm not too keen on it any more. The main reason (as Kilowatt said) is that nonresidents who move to Wyoming and have been putting in for points will be guaranteed tags over residents who may have been applying for the same units but haven't been able to accrue points as of yet. If we do get the preference system we should maybe cap the points at 10 so that everyone can get to the max points at some time. I have 2 kids, one 10 year old and one 13. They are looking at 40 or 50 years to draw a sheep tag. I'd hate to see them screwed out of a chance at a good elk or deer tag because of the preference point system.

The preference point system worked for me on moose. Even though it took me 15 years to draw the tag I knew I'd get it eventually. Sheep is another story. I wish I could apply as a nonresident for sheep but unfortunately the WG&F closed that loophole. I know lots of residents would be willing to pay the nonresident fee for a chance to draw a sheep tag. The nonresidents have a big advantage over residents when it comes to odds of drawing sheep and moose tags.

 

[WyoXtec]

Keep it random for residents, no points system.

If a points system is the panacea then make it a bonus point system that squares like Nevada.

Preference points work, I finally drew sheep this year. The problem with preference points is that my sons might never draw, at least with a bonus points system they have a decent chance. I like Nevada's system with the square of the points.

My 2 cents.

 

[TheGreatWhiteHunter]

Nevada's Bonus point system is the best one going.

A true pp system like we have in Colorado makes it about impossible to ever draw the best units unless you started building points in the begining.


THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER