Parker Mountain/ Plateau Antelope

I'd like to know if the Antelope are doing better. My friend shot a nice Lope on the Parker unit a few years back. Then Utah DWR discontinued the hunt. I'm pretty sure Utah DWR opened up the unit again for Antelope on the Parker Mountain/ Plateau this year!! That's a good sign. Not sure about tag numbers though(y)
 
Vanilla said:
They have antelope on Parker Mountain again?

One of the absolutely worst management gaffs in the history of management gaffs took place on that unit to see where it was just a decade ago to where it is today.
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Seriously? Seriously? You have no fricking idea bud, no idea. If you believe that………. it’s no wonder you support the bureaucracy. It’s being repeated on every mule deer unit in the State and has been for 40 years. Throw in the Fish Lake elk blue light specials……… and the antlerless mule deer tags…….. need I go on?
 
2lumpy said:
Seriously? Seriously? You have no fricking idea bud, no idea. If you believe that………. it’s no wonder you support the bureaucracy. It’s being repeated on every mule deer unit in the State and has been for 40 years.
Click to expand...


You mean we moved deer of a unit in the state to another unit?

Which ones? Where did they go?

You and Bess trying to score a cheap point, forgetting the WHY, as usual
 
2lumpy said:
Seriously? Seriously? You have no fricking idea bud, no idea. If you believe that………. it’s no wonder you support the bureaucracy. It’s being repeated on every mule deer unit in the State and has been for 40 years. Throw in the Fish Lake elk blue light specials……… and the antlerless mule deer tags…….. need I go on?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the Parker Mountain antelope debacle wasn’t a giant management gaff?
 
Once Again You Are Full of BULLSSHIT Hossy!

Maybe You Can Just Argue With Everybody!

Maybe Make A Trip Down To Parker Mountain & Tell Us All How Well The Antelope Are Doing?

Oh,And Tell Us All What A Great Job The DWR Has Done On The Management Of That Unit?

Waiting To Hear More Of You BS Excuses!

What happened to the Parker Mountain Antelope herd? | Utah

The Parker mountain Antelope herd has declined to the point that there is no longer a hunt in that area. How did the largest herd in the state, become almost nonexistent? The game and fish trapped many of them for transplant. They had doe hunts in large numbers. Was that the cause? Wondering...
www.monstermuleys.info www.monstermuleys.info



hossblur said:
You mean we moved deer of a unit in the state to another unit?

Which ones? Where did they go?

You and Bess trying to score a cheap point, forgetting the WHY, as usual
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Once Again You Are Full of BULLSSHIT Hossy!

Maybe You Can Just Argue With Everybody!

Maybe Make A Trip Down To Parker Mountain & Tell Us All How Well The Antelope Are Doing?

Oh,And Tell Us All What A Great Job The DWR Has Done On The Management Of That Unit?

Waiting To Hear More Of You BS Excuses!

What happened to the Parker Mountain Antelope herd? | Utah

The Parker mountain Antelope herd has declined to the point that there is no longer a hunt in that area. How did the largest herd in the state, become almost nonexistent? The game and fish trapped many of them for transplant. They had doe hunts in large numbers. Was that the cause? Wondering...
www.monstermuleys.info www.monstermuleys.info
Click to expand...


Actually had the archery tag, so how's that? Have you? Parker is a long way from the Basin for you to be the expert on.

But as always, in your hurry to take the shot, you skip the why.

The Parker got transplanted to death feeding other units.

So before the "disaster" and "failure" lines, perhaps we investigate how the units the parker fed are doing?

Are there any other factors that possibly are involved? Drought, disease?

I'm not an antelope expert, I'd have to leave that to you.

But the usual "DWR greed" line, is pretty superficial.

Btw how many deer tags in the fam this year?
 
I Didn't Have To Wait Long For You BS Excuses!

So?

Transplanted To Death Didn't Have Anything To Do With The DWR's Management That You Are So Proud Of?

Carry On With Your BS!
 
elkassassin said:
I Didn't Have To Wait Long For You BS Excuses!

So?

Transplanted To Death Didn't Have Anything To Do With The DWR's Management That You Are So Proud Of?

Carry On With Your BS!
Click to expand...

Why'd they transport?

Get to the WHY.

Gawd I sure hope when someone calls you for plumbing you don't walk in and say "yup, it's leaking", then drive off. Hopefully you address the WHY at some point
 
I'm pretty sure that when we started moving them in tge mid 2000's, the data showed that herd to be one of tge most fertile and productive herds in tge nation.

So we started using it as a nursery to stock underachieving units in Utah.

I seem to remember trading speedgoats fir turkeys and sheep as well.

There was talk about the higher elevation and higher moisture availability being the catalyst for huge birth rates.

Seems like extreme drought caught the herd.Easy to armchair qb now that the DWR "should have known".

Yes, I've had that tag several times over the years,. Cattle ranchers were dumping cows because of drought, a lot of the water there is thanks to ranchers, so it's not too surprising the wildlife struggled as well
 
So it isn't a conspiracy to destroy hunting so DWR can sit in their offices not doing anything?


Sucks being the DWR. Youre expected to look 2-3 years into the future to know the weather, and adjust accordingly. I mean EVERYONE knew last winter was coming, just the dumazzes at DWR could see it.

If your Kevin Eubank, you can't see 2-3 hours ahead.

I'm guessing, had they known extreme drought was going to take over, they might of throttled back on moving goats?
 
hossblur said:
So it isn't a conspiracy to destroy hunting so DWR can sit in their offices not doing anything?


Sucks being the DWR. Youre expected to look 2-3 years into the future to know the weather, and adjust accordingly. I mean EVERYONE knew last winter was coming, just the dumazzes at DWR could see it.

If your Kevin Eubank, you can't see 2-3 hours ahead.
Click to expand...

Well Then Why TF Didn't They Do It Then?
hossblur said:
I'm guessing, had they known extreme drought was going to take over, they might of throttled back on moving goats?
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Well Then Why TF Didn't They Do It Then?
Click to expand...
They catch them in the winter. Hard to guess what next summer looks like?

I'd have to look, but I don't remember them catching them for a few years.

Things can go bad, without sinister motives or lack of effort.
 
Keystone said:
I'm pretty sure that when we started moving them in tge mid 2000's, the data showed that herd to be one of tge most fertile and productive herds in tge nation.

So we started using it as a nursery to stock underachieving units in Utah.

I seem to remember trading speedgoats fir turkeys and sheep as well.

There was talk about the higher elevation and higher moisture availability being the catalyst for huge birth rates.

Seems like extreme drought caught the herd.Easy to armchair qb now that the DWR "should have known".

Yes, I've had that tag several times over the years,. Cattle ranchers were dumping cows because of drought, a lot of the water there is thanks to ranchers, so it's not too surprising the wildlife struggled as well
Click to expand...
First unwritten rule of a bureaucracy, “Never, ever, waste a crisis.” They thrive on that rule. The propaganda departments of old establish bureaucracies pay handsome salaries to their writers and public communications specialists.
 
I don't even know what this means.

I do know, that if you use "they" to make a point, your point wasn't that great to start with.

Where EXACTLY am I wrong? I'm happy to learn, but tge tinfoil hat, Alex Jones BS of the hidden hand behind every event, gets tiresome, no?

Who, exactly, are "they", and more importantly what was tge goal of the conspirators?
 
Keystone said:
I don't even know what this means.

I do know, that if you use "they" to make a point, your point wasn't that great to start with.

Where EXACTLY am I wrong? I'm happy to learn, but tge tinfoil hat, Alex Jones BS of the hidden hand behind every event, gets tiresome, no?

Who, exactly, are "they", and more importantly what was tge goal of the conspirators?
Click to expand...
Yep, fair reaction.

I was responding specifically to your comment, “Seems like extreme drought caught the herd.Easy to armchair qb now that the DWR "should have known".

I’ve watched “them, they, those” (DWR) hid behind their management strategies caused by both man and natural disasters for 40 years. And yes, they’ve (DWR) managing wildlife long enough to have known what was coming and have contingencies in place to soften known weather possibilities.

Here’s another armchair qb prediction, “their” (DWR) propaganda machinery will use weather again to justify….. mismanagement.

The decline of the Parker Mountain antelope herd was 100%, I repeat 100% the responsibility of the DWR system, it was not the failure or incompetence of any one individual at the DWR, it was their systemic incompetent management philosophy. It’s the same philosophy they use on mule deer.

As to the other points you expresses, large population of antelope on the Parker being used as nursery, trading for other species etc all true and perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

Same regarding cattlemen selling off cattle to mitigate the drought….. perfectly sensible and responsible species ( domestic cows) management. No question wise domestic livestock management, such as summer water development has enhance both wildlife and livestock.

Regarding getting tiresome, again, you’re correct it is.

I consider you an ally in the fight to preserve the lifestyle and the resource, and when I’ve triggered you, it’s definitely time for me to take a breather, for a few days.

All the best, hang in there, your voice matters.
 
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How EXACTLY do you "manage" for weather? I press you because you attempt to explain. Dude from Basin just capitalizes stuff.

I've never got someone to specifically explain how managing a bad drought, or bad winter looks.
 
Also, can you explain how the dwr system failed, butbtge same system lead to elk explosions?

If they are incompetent as you claim, did they luck out on elk?

In my life, people use massive generalities to disguise subject expertise.
 
2lumpy said:
The decline of the Parker Mountain antelope herd was 100%, I repeat 100% the responsibility of the DWR system, it was not the failure or incompetence of any one individual at the DWR, it was their systemic incompetent management philosophy.
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Wait, you agree with me that the Parker Mountain speedgoat debacle was a giant management gaff?

So, you’re just arguing with me for the sake of being contentious? You know what they say about contention, lumpy…

Best take a break as you suggested if you feel such a need to argue with someone that you can’t resist even when they’re supporting what you’re saying.
 
I hunted the unit back in 2008 with my tag, then 2009 and 2010 with friends. Seems like the emergency closure was in 2010 due to the dwindling population from overissuance of tags, over-harvest from the previous years, and excess transport/trade of animals. I remember driving out there the following year and not seeing a single antelope. I had heard the population had dropped to the 300s that year.

Currently, I believe the herd is still struggling. During our last pass-through in June, we had only seen 3 small herds on the North end. Maybe their objective has changed? Back in the day they wanted 2000 antelope, then I believe they changed it to 1200 although I might be off. Looking at the management plan now it looks like the numbers in 2021 were up to 903.

I can tell you it is not like it was back in the heydays of antelope being everywhere. It was unbelievable and such a fun hunt!
 
elkassassin said:
Right On Tikka!

Waiting For Hossy To Argue!
Click to expand...
Look at the state wide antelope plan. Antelope hunting in Utah is going down. Managing the whole state as wanting the average age antelope to be 2-3 year old antelope harvested . The last few years they have been raising tag numbers in almost ever unit to reach that goal. Saying antelope reach maturity at 2-3 years of age, maybe breeding maturity but not trophy maturity. Why not some different age units like other species? No many 15+” antelope at 2-3 years of age. Every unit I’ve been on the last few years is downward spiraling.
 
It’s sad to hear that this unit.

The Cache Rich unit is horrible. I used to be able to for a drive and see 20 or more bucks. I drive 80 miles a day through the unit, on weekdays and have seen exactly Zero antelope the past 4 weeks. This decline started after the 2-doe tag disaster.

I hope other units are doing better.
 
elkassassin said:
Right On Tikka!

Waiting For Hossy To Argue!
Click to expand...

Ive actually had that tag Bess. But if you think shooting bucks on that unit is what caused the issue, I don't know what to tell you. The Parker has a doe problem, as in they shot too many, and transported too many.
 
hossblur said:
Ive actually had that tag Bess. But if you think shooting bucks on that unit is what caused the issue, I don't know what to tell you. The Parker has a doe problem, as in they shot too many, and transported too many.
Click to expand...

Do you see the pattern? The UT fish and game are famous for doing stupid **** with our resource. Sell/trade/kill any herd that get past there jacked up/half assed management. Ogden moose, willard mtn goats. Are just a few. But guess what? They don't care..... look at WLH....
 
treedagain said:
Do you see the pattern? The UT fish and game are famous for doing stupid **** with our resource. Sell/trade/kill any herd that get past there jacked up/half assed management. Ogden moose, willard mtn goats. Are just a few. But guess what? They don't care..... look at WLH....
Click to expand...

I won't defend the doe tags.

But there are sheep and turkey hunters as well as units with antelope that didn't have them that might not agree with that take.

But you can't blame moose on DWR. That's a climate thing, like it or not
 
hossblur said:
I won't defend the doe tags.

But there are sheep and turkey hunters as well as units with antelope that didn't have them that might not agree with that take.

But you can't blame moose on DWR. That's a climate thing, like it or not
Click to expand...
The moose was 100% transplants.

What unit did the goats go? What did we trade for sheep? Moose for turkeys...great choice there.
 
treedagain said:
The moose was 100% transplants.

What unit did the goats go? What did we trade for sheep? Moose for turkeys...great choice there.
Click to expand...

The moose, statewide, in fact region wide have a tick issue that is killing them.

We traded Parker Antelope for sheep and turkeys.

We sent others to other units.

Just like we sent Muleys from AI to the oak creeks.

Funny, when transports work, not a word.

The double doe tags hurt. But if you actually look at birth stats, the parker was a special unit. Then nature changed, be it climate, drought, pneumonia or a combination of all of the above.

Can't speak to goats on Willard. But I'll assume the bumper to bumper SxS traffic don't help with breeding cycles?
 
Ogden moose took a major dive when they moved a bunch of moose for turkeys
Willard mtn goats were decimated by nanny hunts and a bunch they moved off.
Never heard of lopes for sheep
Who the hell cares about turkeys?
 
treedagain said:
Ogden moose took a major dive when they moved a bunch of moose for turkeys
Willard mtn goats were decimated by nanny hunts and a bunch they moved off.
Never heard of lopes for sheep
Who the hell cares about turkeys?
Click to expand...

Google is your friend
 
hossblur said:
I won't defend the doe tags.

But there are sheep and turkey hunters as well as units with antelope that didn't have them that might not agree with that take.

But you can't blame moose on DWR. That's a climate thing, like it or not
Click to expand...
Again, more flaws in your facts. We caught a pile of moose and shipped them off in 2008ish to become wolf food. I can’t remember what state(s) ended up with them, but they didn’t last long. The DWR is 100% to blame for the moose. And they are 100% to blame for the Parker pronghorn disaster.

the mtn goats off Willard got the pizz shot out of them. Then what was left, got shipped down to the la sals and Dutton I believe. Again, DWRs hand in all of that.

It’s sad when some uniformed “kid” has a better memory and understanding of what’s taken place over the last 20 years than some of the forum experts we have on this site.

The DWR is currently shooting the pizz out of the turkeys every fall too. Even after the NWTF and other organizations have asked them for tight hunt area restrictions to just certain areas with the most winter conflicts. According to the “Updated” hunt map for this years hunts, it looks like that request was largely ignored. Again, all at the hands of the DWR.
 
The "flaw in my facts" is that it was 2009, not 2008 just for starters. Second, the transports were for the same reason turkeys get shot in the fall, they are a nuisance.

"This transplant operation is to move these moose out of areas where they would eventually show up in residential areas and on highways." That's been a problem in this area. So, to help thin the herd some, Utah is sending these moose to Western Colorado, where they'll have more room to roam." KSL

Now, I know, "management". Because the DWR gets to dictate roads, and subdivisions as part of their strategy?

As to Parker

www.sltrib.com

Prolific Parker Mountain pronghorn populate Utah

Parker Mountain, Wayne County • Perhaps the jackalope really does exist.
www.sltrib.com www.sltrib.com

The Prolific Pronghorn of Utah's Parker Mountain - YouTube htthistory-and-facts-about-utah-antelopes



www.deseret.com

History and facts about Utah antelopes

The original range of the pronghorn in Utah was in the foothills and lower valleys of the state.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

I could decipher it for you, but rather than actually read anything, I'm sure you'll jump again to something else.
 
hossblur said:
"This transplant operation is to move these moose out of areas where they would eventually show up in residential areas and on highways." That's been a problem in this area. So, to help thin the herd some, Utah is sending these moose to Western Colorado, where they'll have more room to roam." KSL
Click to expand...
Kind if funny that the ogden moose were never a problem in residential or made it to any highway. They cleaned out the whole north fork herd despite the residents wanting them to be left alone. Drink your koolaid.

The willard mtn goat is the prime example of the idiots at the UDWR.

Trade ANYTHING for a turkey is pretty stupid.
 
hossblur said:
The "flaw in my facts" is that it was 2009, not 2008 just for starters. Second, the transports were for the same reason turkeys get shot in the fall, they are a nuisance.

"This transplant operation is to move these moose out of areas where they would eventually show up in residential areas and on highways." That's been a problem in this area. So, to help thin the herd some, Utah is sending these moose to Western Colorado, where they'll have more room to roam." KSL

Now, I know, "management". Because the DWR gets to dictate roads, and subdivisions as part of their strategy?

As to Parker

www.sltrib.com

Prolific Parker Mountain pronghorn populate Utah

Parker Mountain, Wayne County • Perhaps the jackalope really does exist.
www.sltrib.com www.sltrib.com

The Prolific Pronghorn of Utah's Parker Mountain - YouTube htthistory-and-facts-about-utah-antelopes



www.deseret.com

History and facts about Utah antelopes

The original range of the pronghorn in Utah was in the foothills and lower valleys of the state.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

I could decipher it for you, but rather than actually read anything, I'm sure you'll jump again to something else.
Click to expand...
Hey dumb dumb, I said 2008-ISH. Excuse me for not knowing the exact day they rounded them up.

So we ship utah moose across state lines instead of supplementing another utah herd somewhere else? Great work! ?
 
Bux n Dux said:
Hey dumb dumb, I said 2008-ISH. Excuse me for not knowing the exact day they rounded them up.

So we ship utah moose across state lines instead of supplementing another utah herd somewhere else? Great work! ?
Click to expand...

Always state "facts" with "ish" behind it?

I'm sure we got nothing for them. DWR probably sold them to buy a boat?
 
treedagain said:
Kind if funny that the ogden moose were never a problem in residential or made it to any highway. They cleaned out the whole north fork herd despite the residents wanting them to be left alone. Drink your koolaid.

The willard mtn goat is the prime example of the idiots at the UDWR.

Trade ANYTHING for a turkey is pretty stupid.
Click to expand...

Same question I always ask.

What's the conspiracy?
 
Bux n Dux said:
Again, more flaws in your facts. We caught a pile of moose and shipped them off in 2008ish to become wolf food. I can’t remember what state(s) ended up with them, but they didn’t last long. The DWR is 100% to blame for the moose.
Click to expand...

Really you are claiming hossblur facts are wrong, and you get the year wrong and you know the moose got ate by wolf's but you can not remember the state.
??????
What a tool
 

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