POLL

3

30inchbuck

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I have a couple of proposals that I wanted to pass by you guys and see if It would be supported or not. These are some ideas from a few differnent sources. Going to put together an article and wanted some input freeback. Some would be in front of state legislatures others G&F.


1. Certain poaching convictions = 4th degree felony - currently most wildlife cases only get a misdomeanor.


2. Require everyone applying for a tag to purchase a small game license.


3. Fees upfront - will be like this next year - just wanted some to know how many agree to this.


4. One Weapon Choice.


5. Skip one year for anyone drawing a HD or Q hunt.
 
Would need to define certain

Just a revenue builder. Be up front about it and raise prices if that's what the purpose is.

Would not matter to me.

Would not matter to me either.
 
1. Sounds good, but need more detail.

2. No. Raise prices, but don't force anything like this.

3. Yes. This will decrease number of applications, increasing drawing odds.

4. No.

5. Stupid. This does very little to increase drawing odds IMHO. What happens to the S hunts over time based on the current criteria for defining HD hunts? Will more and more S hunts become HD?
 
1 yes
2 no maybe for out of state
3 for sure
4 YESSSS stop all rifle hunters from third choice bow {worked at a gun store while back lots of guys walk in last min.to buy bow never even shot one bow is a year around game}
5 only if 3 and 4 are applied also.on top of that need to draw all 1st choice 1st then 2nd and so on.


ps think drawing by choice instead of app would help everyone the most if we all think back to 2000 and earlier we drew tags often i think
 
1. Yes for maybe multiple convictions of certain
2. Who Cares, I by one anyway.
3. Doesn't matter to me, I have to give them money at some point, cause I draw every year anyway!
4. Great Idea, keeps the rifle hunters for putting in for my archery tags third choice.
5. Pretty dumb idea if you ask me.

Things to add to the list.

6. Bighorn, Ibex, Oryx, tags 80% resident, 20% non-res
 
1. Sounds good to me but do you really think it's going to change anything? I mean, they were doing it illegal in the first place. Increased minimum fines maybe.....
2. Not a good idea in my opinion. Most of us already do that and as previously stated, if revenues needed increase prices across the board.
3. Thid is IMO the best thing to get things back in order as far as the draws go. You can expect prices to go up because of it as the NMDGF will lose money from all the neices, nephews, aunts, uncles, grandmas...etc who all of the sudden stop putting in but hey, how bad do YOU want to go???
4. One weapon choice, now there's a sweet spot for me. Bow all the way every time and quite sick of these people saying they drew a bow tag and want to know my opinion on the bow they should buy!!!!
5. Drop the Q/HD and I just might get on board with this one but I think if some of these other suggestions were tried you'd find that the odds get quite a bit better and might not be needed!!
How's that??
 
"4. Great idea, keeps the rifle hunters for putting in for my
archery tag, third choice."

....that's interesting. Hadn't thought of it that way,
and not totally convinced...but Damned interesting.

huummm........

lrv
 
1. Yes
2. No
3. YES !!!!!!
4. YES !!!!!!
5. No

According to Weybright, 3 & 4 are the 2 most requested changes. So hopefully this will help.
 
Your saying mark someone permanently for wildlife violations??? Heck I'd make sure I beat that game warden down and earned every bit of that 4th degree felony! I'm sorry but felonies need to be reserved for humans and serious crimes. I will never ever put animals that hight on the totum pole. 4th degree is some serious chit and I know several people that had their priveleges revoked for 5 years. Trust me, those revocations were more than enough to straighten those poachers out. Their actually very conservative now. Why fix it if it aint broke.

As for me. I'd rather see us loose all our wildlife rather than start giving animals rights like that! Don't go there cuz green peace will be right behind you. Trust me, thats a can of worms we sportsmen cant afford to open the door on.

SO as for number 1.) HE!! NO!
as for the rest... Absolutely!
 
Let me revies my previous post.

I would definitely be for it if it made for the following compromise.

If sportsmen get a fourth degree felony for wildlife crimes then green peace faggots get a 4th degree felony strating the first time they are convicted of interfiering with hunters!

Heck I'll even pay for that one. ROFL!

I would also like to see anyone who draws a buck deer or antelope tag be ineligabile for the draw the next year. Look at the unit 32 and 30 rifle deer tags. I haven't drawn a tag in two years and hunted every year since I was 9 until this new jacked up draw.

4918bc530d0e7097.jpg
 
WHY DO WE ALL SOUND LIKE WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE NOW?THREE MONTHS AGO WE COULD HAVE MADE A GOOD CHANGE TO LATE NOW
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-09 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]1. I think StinkyStomper says it best

2. Why? Not sure what that does I usually get one anyway but why mandatory.

3. No difference but if improves my odds Hell Yeah.

4 Emphatically NO!!!!!!! I like to mix it up such as an OIL hunt for rifle. and Bow for the 2nd and 3rd on my stomping grounds. Really what is argument against it. (Remember the more we ask to be restricted in our choices the more they will be happy to do so)

5. Another Emphatic No!!!! I feel this will artificially create too many HD hunts by causing all the nr to apply for s hunts on off years and make units that shouldn't be HD.
 
#1-Legal matters to legal people!
#2-No way! Why even bring it up. Everyone keeps trying to increase there odds by out buying the other. This is only another way to eliminate people.
#3-Doing this just makes for a rich mans sport, in which if you haven't realized it, this sport is headed this way faster than most of us can imagine!!!! Lower prices brings in more hunters. Also, we need to replenish the hunters we are losing. I believe I read that the average age for a hunter is over 50. This is so said!!!
#4- NoNoNoNo
#5-Give us bonus points, makes much more sense than having to wait out. (I've only drawn 2 tags in New Mexico ever, so it really dosen't matter).
 
As far as #1 is concerned, had a guy bring it up the other day. i believe it could be written so the most blatent convictions would have this. Possible one where it was a "trophy" animal. Or otherwise poached just for the horns. Also was brought up that most cases the current judges take in plea agreements and most of the time the really dont do any time. Fines are reduced. And these type of things.




Note - several of these I personally do not agree with either, just in the process of writing an article and want a direction from you guys on what issues need to be brought up for the SFW to get involved with.


Thanks for all the responses. I will let this run for 2 weeks. Then shut it down.
 
I guess I take a different approach to #4 than most. I prefer to put in for my 1st and 2nd choice with the bow, and may do rifle or muzzy on my 3rd choice.
 
1. YES, Tougher convictions would make a poacher to think twice about poaching an animal.

2. NO, Not all hunters hunt small game. give the average Joe some slack on tuff times!(economic)

3.YES, Some tags are given to hunters who ends up not hunting. Make them pay up for them tags or dont put in for the draw! give another hunter a shot at that tag.

4.NO, Have the freedom to put in for what we want! My money MY CHOICE!

5.YES, Better opertunities for everyone to draw a HD or a Q hunt.
 
Don't think it will fly...
Suggestion..1st offence healthy fine+jail time. 2nd offence throw the key away+felony!

No

yes

I can sit water holes when I am old with a bow, but doubt I'll chase elk. Probaly will do 3rd choice firearms...so no

yes
 
1) No

2) No

3) Yes

4) Yes

5) Absolutely Not! This is not going to work. We're going to see S hunts turn to HD hunts, as well as leftover tags in certain Q/HD areas. The benefit of slightly better draw odds does not "outweigh" the problems. In most cases, the odds are not going to improve enough to make a significant difference. Your odds will go from 1 in 10 to 1 in 9. Great! I'm all for it on a hunt by hunt basis. I'm sure there are hunts that would benefit from an every other year policy, just not mine.
 
1. Yes we need to be more strict with poaching. If we can not prove as sportsmen that we are good stewards of the land and of the wildlife then we can't make any valid arguments that we should have the ability to make decisions about land management. I would like to know how many of those individuals that actually poach we could call fellow sportsmen because I would guess a great deal of them haven't bought a license recently or have never bought a license because they think that because their great grandpa was the first one to live in that canyon they have rights to the wildlife and shouldn't have to buy a license. As sportsmen I think poaching incidents are lower.
2. No, I do agree with many of the sportsmen on here that if the state needs more money just let us know you need more money. Don't force someone to buy a license that they may never use. If you have an out of state applicant successful they are now going to be dropping a lot more money. I personally purchase a small game license every year, but I like to hunt birds.
3. Yes, I do have to admit that I have changed my mind on this since I first created a storm about our game and fish the first time before the Deming meeting. By charging the whole fee upfront we will eliminate those from our environmentalist groups that are putting in for the draw to try and keep us from drawing all the tags in a particular area. I also agree that many people out there put in their whole family for a particular hunt in case they don't draw themselves. I personally witness a gentleman carrying his wives rifle on a bull hunt. She was more than 30 yards behind him and he was putting a sneak on my bugle. She admitted that she smoked heavily and was not fit or didn't care to be out in the hills chasing elk.
4. Some of use are sportsmen that are more versatile than just hunting with one weapon type. Secondly some of us are smart enough to figure out that the different times of the seasons due to hunting with a different type of weapon are to our advantage. There are some parts of the state that I would only hunt rifle and their are other parts of the state that I would only hunt archery. If their isn't enough cover to hunt archery I would prefer being able to go chase one down with my smokepole in that are versus a bow in another area.
5. Unless the game and fish comes up with some type of research backed method of determining which hunts are a quality or a high demand hunt I don't think they can limit the ability of individuals to draw out for a particular area in back to back years.
 
Either pay for license fee to apply for big game tags or pay tag fees up front...doesn't seem fair to charge both?

I would add to your list a 5 year wait for anyone that draws a high demand tag. 1 year isn't squat where there are gobs of guys applying for tough draw tags!

One last comment: Rifle antelope public draw in units rather than being assigned a ranch! The current system is a joke!
 
Interesting results so far.

Just wondering why not require fees up front? Would mainly only effect non-residnets and non-hunters. Most everyone I know that is a resident, buys one anyways. AZ and UT requires it to put in to draw. Yes it is a revenue generator for G&F. More $ for them means more for NM wildlife and what they can accomplish.

So far majority says.

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
5. No
 
I have not done the math, but, it appears that there is no real majority on any of these.

I think the saying: Be careful what you wish for applies here.
 
Smallest percentage is over 60%.

With the fees up front having the largest persentage of 91%.

Still want it to run a couple of weeks. Just wanted to post results up till now.
 
HEY 30INCHBUCK ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THIS TO THE GAME AND FISH?
THINK YOU SHOULD ADD CHANGING THE DRAW SYSTEM TO DRAWING BY CHOICE NOT APP AT A TIME.I'VE DONE THE MATH IT INCREASES YOUR ODDS THE MOST.BUT IT STILL GET'S EVEN BETTER WHEN YOU ADD SOME OF THE OTHERS LIKE MAIL IN APP,MONEY UP FRONT,AND YOU WON'T NEED
TO PICK YOUR WEAPON AND EVERYONES APP AT LEAST GETS THEIR APP PULLED ONCE.STILL MIGHT NOT DRAW BUT CHANCES FOR EVERYONE GET A LOT BETTER.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-09 AT 01:56PM (MST)[p]It will get to G&F, But there is more behind it that just that. As far as your thoughts on going back to the drawing by choice instead of by app. While it appears now that it would increase your odds (that is for the guys that put high draw odd as 1st choice) The odds will change with a different draw system. As it is now, you do have the opportunity to have a 1st choice that would be a very high quality hunt, second choice a lesser hunt and 3rd choice lesser still. I think that most sportsman prefer this method. Because you have an opportunity to draw a high quality hunt. Whereas doing it the other way if you wanted a to put in for a high quality hunt then your odds of drawing any tag in NM would be almost nill. Wheras your odds to draw a tag is increased for every hunt that you put on your app that is a easier to draw tag.

What everyone has to realize is that while the number of tags stay the same or decrease there is an increase in hunter numbers. So each year the number of hunters increase the odds of drawing decrease. I know it gets frustrating not drawing however there are many opportunities that you have that would allow you to hunt elk, deer, antelope every year if you wanted to. Might be in a different state but the opportunity is there.

One item that I think would make it better as well is get away from the non-resident pool and do like AZ did change it to a cap for non-residents instead of a mandatory set aside. So everyone is in the same drawing and once or if the non-resident cap gets fulfilled then the rest would be filled by residents. There are some hunts mostly cow hunts or some deer hunts. That the odds for a resident to draw is like 25% whereas for non-residents the odds are like 90% and sometimes even higher.

It is going to be interesting to see the numbers of apps this year compared to last year for the species requiring money up front. Then next year when the rest of the species are added to that. This will effect the number of non-residents I am just not sure about the numbers of residents and the effect on them.

Some other points is while everyone wants to draw and to hunt do we really want to decrease the number of hunters we have in the state by putting in place some new policies that increase the cost? and or Decrease opportunity?
 
No
No
Yes
Yes
No

From a tards perspective....

I agree you can be tough on poachers without equalling the animal and its rights to a human. Bad, bad, bad to even go there. Next thing you will see is an activist wanting to outlaw "legalized killing."
 
You can get a 4th degree felony from a cruelty to animals conviction currently.

4th degee felony is the next step above a misdomeanor. Just with heavier consequeces. Like gun ownership gone. Voting rights gone.
 
As mentioned above, there are more and more applicants applying each year and it would be great if NM followed suit with other states and offered incentives for applicants that apply more years without drawing tags?

If NM residents aren't willing to go to a pref or bonus pt system how about offering it to just nonres like Wyoming currently does? I hadn't drawn an elk tag in Wyoming for over 20 years (and only 1 deer tag) until the nonres pref pt system was started. I drew my elk tag 2 years into the pref pt system and a deer tag at 2 years. I expect to draw another elk and deer tag in the next couple years. If it weren't for the Wyo pref pt system I would likely still be waiting for my first tag!

Obviously each draw system has its advantage and a bonus pt system similar to NV or possibly UT offers everyone a fair chance for everyone to draw tags (even applicants that haven't applied before). I really like the idea of rewarding applicants that have not drawn a tag a little better chance for drawing tags and the current NM system doesn't offer this! If NM starts charging higher fees to apply or pay license fees up front at least applicants get a bonus or pref pt each year!

I bet if you added a nonresident pref/bonus pt poll to your list that you would get an over whelming positive response!
 
I THINK IT VERY VERY UNFAIR FOR SOMEONE TO DRAW THIRD CHOICE SOMEONES FIRST CHOICE AND THE FIRST CHOICE NOT EVEN GET ONE OF THE TAGS.I DO AGREE THEIR ARE LOTS OF CHANCES TO HUNT BUT AS A RES YOU SHOULDEN'T HAVE TO SPEND YOUR MONEY OUT OF STATE CAUSE NM CAN'T COME UP WITH A DECENT DRAW SYSTEM.I HAVE RELATIVES THAT LIVE OUT OF STATE THAT LAUGH AT OUR SYS.I DRAW TAGS IN CO.EVERY 2 TO 3 YEARS,NM 1 IN SEVEN THATS A JOKE
 
Jacob a draw system does not create more hunting opportunities.

Also everything being equal, NM elk hunting blows aways CO elk hunting. Mule deer of course is a different story.

CO manages for opportunity to hunt rather than quality when it comes to elk hunting.
 
1. Yes - make the penalty stiffer
2. No - I don't draw, they don't get any more of my $
3. No - It will cause reduced applicants, making them increase prices due to lost revenue.
4. No - Stupid idea
5. Yes - Why not?
 
"RE:pOLL"

A few years back if you wanted to hunt you didn't apply for a hard to draw unit but you would draw.If you wanted to hunt a Q hunt you would take your chances {what i would do}I don't agree with you a draw system does create hunting opp.Right now if you apply to my hunting spot,odds are 1in8 if they drew fist choice first odds would be 1 in 3 then you take Q/HD every other year and my odds are now 1in2.Should be able to draw at least every 2to3 years.Right now 1 every 8.The only reason hunters are on the increase in nm is because of the elk and deer app fee to apply.Everyone applies freinds and neighbors cause you only pay what you draw.I guess everyone forgot how good it was 10 years ago before nmdgf went to the online app.


I also do not belive poaching should fall under a fellony.Not everyone can afford to buy a landowner tag.I met one guy who has not had a licence in 9 years and he applies for 45 his back yard.Not the Gila can you really blame him.I would NEVER poach just don't think its right but don't blame some people don't think its right for some old man who just wants to get out there to be denied either
 
1. No
2. No
3. YES - I think this will increase drawing odds
4. No, but don't care much either way
5. NO !! this is a really stupid rule - it won't change the drawing odds significantly, but it will keep me from going to my favorite spot every year.
-- Bob
 
As for #1, their is a FELONY Game and Fish can charge, it's kinda funny, but it falls under the livestock provisions.

TRANSPORTATION OF STOLEN LIVESTOCK: Transporting stolen livestock consists of knowingly transporting or carrying any stolen or unlawfully possessed livestock or ANY UNLAWFULLY POSSESSED GAME ANIMAL, OR PART THEREOF. A FOURTH DEGREE FELONY

STATE STATUE 30-18-6

TT
 
1 - yes
2 - no
3 - yes
4 - no way
5 - I could live with it. After drawing your tag, sitting out a year should make the next years chances that much better.
 
#1 - Yes,make poachers hurt! Jail time and major fines and public hangings! #2 - Bad idea, you will loose revenue, charge a little higher app fee each year.#3 - Sucky idea, once again charge a little more for the app and no refund.#4 - Who cares what weapon we use? #5 - Good idea gives more people a crack at it. BH1
 

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