Preference Points

300wtby

Active Member
Messages
115
I like alot of you have been accumulating preference points for the opportunity to have an advantage or an outright chance to draw a tag. I have been accumulating tags for Colorado and Wyoming. Well currently we have no choice either accumulate the pref. pts. or don't hunt.

I can remember applying for a Deer Tag for Region G in Wyoming. I applied for 4 years until I finally drew my first tag (1997). I kept applying and finally drew another 2 tags in 2001 and 2002 and then didn't apply again. Well the odds of drawing a tag back in those days were about 10 to 20%, but at least you did have an opportunity to draw every year, just had to apply. The state of Wyoming changed things a little enticing us to apply on a "Special" tag and with the increased cost of license have a better chance at drawing a tag. Now as of last year they went to Pref Pts for Deer, Elk and Antelope. They still offer 25% of the licenses for anyone to draw, even though you may not have Pref Pts. Now this leads me to my argument about Pref Pts. I personally don't like Pref Pts. but if the state must make a living selling Pref Pts in this day in age they should keep at minimum 25% of all licenses available to anyone whether they have points or not.

Case in point is Colorado where we are seeing certain units where it can take as many as 15 to 20 pts. to draw. Now how fair is this to anyone including our next generation of hunters. Wouldn't it be nice if the state of CO reserved 25% of the tags to just a straight luck of the draw where anyone could possibly draw the tag even with 0 pts.? I got into this conversation with my Barber the other day about how I think they should do away with Pref Pts altogether. He lashed back and said how he has 10 Elk pts and 8 Deer Pts. and he would be opposed to doing away with pref pts. since he has so many years invested in accumulating the tags. I told him that if it were up to me and I also have 7 Elk Pts and 2 Deer Pts I would be more than happy if Colorado did away with the entire Preference Point thing and went to a straight "Luck of the Draw" for all units. My Proposal would be this:

Starting with the 2008 License Draw, I would make it mandatory that anyone with Pref Pts apply for the license of their dreams (Elk or Deer) using their Pref Pts. I would award Bonus Applications in addition to their first application for every Pref Pt that they have (5 points gets five additional applications for that year) and that would continue each year until they eventually drew the tag. The applications would all go into a Regular Draw and everyone who applied would have a chance to draw a tag and the people who had extra applications in the drawing because they had pref pts would have an increased chance of drawing the tag because they have more applications in the draw that could be drawn. I would also mandate that everyone who had Preference Pts must apply within the next two years or forfeit their points and they must apply at least every third year or also risk loosing their points until no one has any preference pts. By making it mandatory to apply every third year this would satisfy the fact that some have accumulated pts for several animals (Elk, Deer, Antelope). But the goal would be to get back to where no one has any preference points and then the drawings would be equally fair to everyone.

My plan would also make it mandatory during the application process that you must send in the Full Amount of the cost of the License with your application. Once Colorado conducted the draw if successful you would receive your license and if you are not successful you would receive a refund less a $ 25 to $ 50 handling fee to be used by the Colorado Fish and Game just like they use the preference point money ( for their general fund). This would allow the state to continue receiving income from the public applying for the various tags. This type of plan would allow Colorado to continue generating income from applicants as opposed to generating income from preference points and everyone would have a chance to draw a tag.

The plan stated above would be fair to everyone since anyone could draw a tag and to the people who have invested years into accumulating Prefernce Points it would be fair since they would be granted extra chances to draw based on the number of Preference Point they had. This is Plan that I wish all States would adopt for their Big Game Drawings.

If they don't change their ways of drawing what chance does anyone have of ever drawing a tag for Elk for the NW Corner of Colorado or a High Country Deer Tag in Unit 43? Your 65 year old Dad or your 18 year old High School Graduate have a slim to none chance of ever having enough points to draw those tags.

In closing after I discussed by plan with my Barber he thought that the plan would work even for him since he would receive compensation for all those years of accumulating points via the extra application in the draw.

Thanks, for reading my plan. I just think that something needs to be done with Preference Points.

Take Care and Have a Great Weekend!

Thanks,

300 WTBY

Dave Halverson
 
I only wish they would take your advice. I got started in the points game only 3-4 years ago. I know I will never bring myself to hold out as long as it would take me to hunt the top elk units in the state as a non-resident. I would rather hunt an "average" unit with a good chance at a 6-point bull, with only 4-6 pref-points, 4-6 times over my hunting career, than wait the 20+ years it will take me to have a shot at one of the top units once in my life. And at the rate things are going it would be much more than 20 years for me to be in that position. I don't like the pref point game any more than you, that's for sure. I got in on Wyomings last year (first year) so I will always be at the top of the point game until I draw and because of that I'll hold out for that "TOP" unit, after that, I'm back hunting "average" units there too. Those top units have become "once-in-a-lifetime" hunts. Oh well, at least I am young enough to hope for a few decent hunts in my life, but I sure wish I would have known 10-15 years ago what the draw odds were going to be today! Congrats to those that do have the patients to wait those long years to draw that prime tag and eventually do. I wish you all the best of luck and hope it is worth the wait!

Jaxon
 
Great plan, 300wtby! I'm with you 100% as I'm totally against the preference point system. IMHO it discriminates against old guys like me who never know if this hunting season will be their last and thus don't give a good **++@$$ about collecting expensive points.
It also discriminates against the young such as my college age nephew who's just getting started in hunting but has already gotten brainwashed about getting that trophy rack. He can't afford putting in for points in several states for at least the next 4 or 5 years.
I say "get rid of preference points and bonus points".
If enough of us felt strongly about this we could petition/sue the Department of the Interior or whoever to bring about a change nationwide.

Herb
 
I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
If hunters unstood the PP system the PP wouldn't be as high as they have become.
Look at the CDOW website and see for yourself.
Why are people putting in for a unit that requires 11 PP to draw with 0 PP.These people are the ones making it hard for you and me to draw in these units.PP are good in more than one unit and until hunters putting in the drawing understand this,we're just beating a dead horse.It's not the states fault it's the hunters thinking that with 0-8 PP will draw a unit that takes 10-13 PP.
Blame the hunters not using the PP system to right way.
 
Bowtecher, I am not quite following your logic. If there is a unit that has 10 tags and 20 people with 11 points put in for the tag, all other people that put in have no bearing on what the points required will be. It is only the top points applicants that determine how many points it will take. In my example, only half the people with 11 points would draw and since most of them would try to draw the same unit next year, it would take 12 points to draw. Someone who thought they could draw with 0 points and applied has no effect on this at all.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-07 AT 06:04PM (MST)[p]Keep in mind alot of people in Colorado put in for non-guaranteed units on purpose. They don't want to draw 1st choice, so they have a chance at their 2nd, 3rd or 4th chances so they can keep thier points. If by some fluke, people don't put in for say an 11 pt type unit that year for some reason and the guy with 8 pts ends up with a killer tag, sweet, but in reality, he just wanted his point and a shot at another choice.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
Hunt Odds.com
 
> I like alot of
>you have been accumulating preference
>points for the opportunity to
>have an advantage or an
>outright chance to draw a
>tag. I have been
>accumulating tags for Colorado and
>Wyoming. Well currently we
>have no choice either accumulate
>the pref. pts. or don't
>hunt.
>
> I can remember applying
>for a Deer Tag for
>Region G in Wyoming.
>I applied for 4 years
>until I finally drew my
>first tag (1997). I
>kept applying and finally drew
>another 2 tags in 2001
>and 2002 and then didn't
>apply again. Well the
>odds of drawing a tag
>back in those days were
>about 10 to 20%, but
>at least you did have
>an opportunity to draw every
>year, just had to apply.
> The state of Wyoming
>changed things a little enticing
>us to apply on a
>"Special" tag and with the
>increased cost of license have
>a better chance at drawing
>a tag. Now as
>of last year they went
>to Pref Pts for Deer,
>Elk and Antelope. They
>still offer 25% of the
>licenses for anyone to draw,
>even though you may not
>have Pref Pts. Now
>this leads me to my
>argument about Pref Pts.
>I personally don't like Pref
>Pts. but if the
>state must make a living
>selling Pref Pts in this
>day in age they should
>keep at minimum 25% of
>all licenses available to anyone
>whether they have points or
>not.
>
> Case in point is
>Colorado where we are seeing
>certain units where it can
>take as many as 15
>to 20 pts. to draw.
> Now how fair is
>this to anyone including our
>next generation of hunters.
>Wouldn't it be nice if
>the state of CO reserved
>25% of the tags to
>just a straight luck of
>the draw where anyone could
>possibly draw the tag even
>with 0 pts.? I
>got into this conversation with
>my Barber the other day
>about how I think they
>should do away with Pref
>Pts altogether. He lashed
>back and said how he
>has 10 Elk pts and
>8 Deer Pts. and he
>would be opposed to doing
>away with pref pts. since
>he has so many years
>invested in accumulating the tags.
> I told him that
>if it were up to
>me and I also have
>7 Elk Pts and 2
>Deer Pts I would be
>more than happy if Colorado
>did away with the entire
>Preference Point thing and went
>to a straight "Luck of
>the Draw" for all units.
> My Proposal would be
>this:
>
> Starting with the 2008
>License Draw, I would make
>it mandatory that anyone with
>Pref Pts apply for the
>license of their dreams (Elk
>or Deer) using their Pref
>Pts. I would award
>Bonus Applications in addition to
>their first application for every
>Pref Pt that they have
>(5 points gets five additional
>applications for that year) and
>that would continue each year
>until they eventually drew the
>tag. The applications would
>all go into a Regular
>Draw and everyone who applied
>would have a chance to
>draw a tag and the
>people who had extra applications
>in the drawing because they
>had pref pts would have
>an increased chance of drawing
>the tag because they have
>more applications in the draw
>that could be drawn.
>I would also mandate that
>everyone who had Preference Pts
>must apply within the next
>two years or forfeit their
>points and they must apply
>at least every third year
>or also risk loosing their
>points until no one has
>any preference pts. By
>making it mandatory to apply
>every third year this would
>satisfy the fact that some
>have accumulated pts for several
>animals (Elk, Deer, Antelope). But
>the goal would be to
>get back to where no
>one has any preference points
>and then the drawings would
>be equally fair to everyone.
>
>
> My plan would also
>make it mandatory during the
>application process that you must
>send in the Full Amount
>of the cost of the
>License with your application.
>Once Colorado conducted the draw
>if successful you would receive
>your license and if you
>are not successful you would
>receive a refund less a
>$ 25 to $ 50
>handling fee to be used
>by the Colorado Fish and
>Game just like they use
>the preference point money (
>for their general fund). This
>would allow the state to
>continue receiving income from the
>public applying for the various
>tags. This type of
>plan would allow Colorado to
>continue generating income from applicants
>as opposed to generating income
>from preference points and everyone
>would have a chance to
>draw a tag.
>
> The plan stated above
>would be fair to everyone
>since anyone could draw a
>tag and to the people
>who have invested years into
>accumulating Prefernce Points it would
>be fair since they would
>be granted extra chances to
>draw based on the number
>of Preference Point they had.
> This is Plan that
>I wish all States would
>adopt for their Big Game
>Drawings.
>
> If they don't change
>their ways of drawing what
>chance does anyone have of
>ever drawing a tag for
>Elk for the NW Corner
>of Colorado or a High
>Country Deer Tag in Unit
>43? Your 65 year
>old Dad or your 18
>year old High School Graduate
>have a slim to none
>chance of ever having enough
>points to draw those tags.
>
>
> In closing after I
>discussed by plan with my
>Barber he thought that the
>plan would work even for
>him since he would receive
>compensation for all those years
>of accumulating points via
>the extra application in the
>draw.
>
> Thanks, for reading my
>plan. I just think
>that something needs to be
>done with Preference Points.
>
> Take Care and Have
>a Great Weekend!
>
>Thanks,
>
>300 WTBY
>
>Dave Halverson
 
300 hit the nail right on the head .points are pushing people away from the great sport of hunting
 
droptine,
Is what I'm saying is that alot of units don't need the PP that high.But if you've ever looked at how the PP work in the units you would understand.The CDOW figures that once the applicant level hits around 4 times the tags available then this requires 1 PP,and so on.Some units that use to be around 7-8 PP now are higher because more people have put in just because.If applicants would pay attention and see that the hunt code for PP in right in front of them and not pick some unit they know they wouldn't draw,the units with high PP wouldn't get this high and would stay at lower levels so you could draw multiple times in a lifetime.
just an example would be DM00102R Buck deer, unit 1, 2nd season Rifle
licenses available 6,applicants 29,PP needed to draw 1.
this was taken out of the 2007 PP insert in Colorado Outdoors.
Granted some units require more because of "trophy quility"
The system works if you know how to work the system.
My relative drew a moose tag a few years back after the PP system for moose was developed.Before the PP system he had put in for 20+ years with the old "Luck of the Draw".
I would rather have the PP system than luck of the draw.
 
Bowtecher,
I think this statement is incorrect "The CDOW figures that once the applicant level hits around 4 times the tags available then this requires 1 PP,and so on."

The DOW doesn't set how many preference points it takes to draw. It is determined completely who has the highest number of points that put in for the tag. It can vary from year to year because of this.

In your example, if there are 4 times the applicants for the number of tags, then on average it would take 4 years for everyone who initially put in to draw.

Year 1 = 0 points ( 1/4th of total applicants draw )
Year 2 = 1 point ( 1/4th of total applicants that didn't draw the first year )
Year 3 = 2 points ( 1/4th of total applicants that didn't draw the first or second years )
Year 4 = 3 points ( 1/4th of total applicants that didn't draw the first, second, or third years )

As long as around the same number applied every year then it would take 3 points to draw.

Now lets say that in the 2nd year there are 8 times the number of applicants than there are tags. Assuming that everyone still puts in for the same tag for the ensuing years, then eventually it will take 7 points to draw.

Now if that 8 times the applicants was a one time year only event and then the number of applicants decreased back to 4 times the tag amounts, then after taking 7 points to draw, the tag will return to 3 points to draw.

If the 8 times the number of tags applicants is steady year after year, then the number of points required will stay at 7.
 
Right that's what I'm trying to say is the PP levels only get higher when people that don't stand a chance to draw put in.It's all about supply and demand.Set tag numbers and applicant's trying to draw.I've used the system to where all the tags I've drawn,I've drawn with less then the required.But I've also seen units jump up real high because you have people putting in with not even enough points.
Prime example look at unit 201 rifle 23 tags for early either sex,1061 applicants,resident PP 16,non-resident PP17
these would have never gotten this high if people would not apply until maybe they have one less point,but when you have say 800 people applying with 13 or fewer PP it drives the PP requirements up.Now that the PP are that high they will not drop back down.I've gone lots of rounds with residents and non-residents that think if you put in for unit 201 that the PP is good for that unit only.Which is completely FALSE!And at the same time it's these people making it harder for themselves and for others.If things would have stayed the way it should have in some units I would be able to draw a trophy unit in another year but since others have screwed up the PP system it might take me another 3-4 years.I'll just stick to my system that's worked well for me.
 
Maine has a bonus point system for moose permits, but get this: if you are a non-resident, you can purchase unlimited chances in the moose draw. Kind of blows the bonus points out of the water. Residents are restricted to entering with a maximum of six chances plus their accumulated bonus points. This system takes big game permit drawings as F & W Dept. fundraising to the max!
 
Good post, I am just starting to get into the whole PP thing recently. Some states will not get my $ becuase I don't have a chance of drawing a tag that I would want, others will even if its expensive but I'm picking and choosing based on where I can afford it, not where I want to hunt.
 
Bowtecher it doesn't sound like you understand how the system works. The only reason the pp requirements keep increasing is because the high demand units are getting too many applicants. Say you want to hunt elk in unit 201 and it takes 15 points. If there are 10 tags and 100 people apply with 16 points only 10%will draw and the next year if the same 90 who didn't draw put in it will take 17 points to draw. There are more people with alot of points trying to draw these very best hunts. In Colorado you do not draw if someone else with more points is vying for that last tag in your unit. You have to have at least as many points as that other guy when that last tag is drawn to have a chance at all. The person with the most points gets the tag first. Anyone with less points doesn't count.
 
mainer,
Does your state offer resident only areas?
Even with Colorado's weighted PP system for moose it still boils down to luck of the draw.When you apply your given a number then the computer divides that number with the number of weighted points you have like:2points divided twice,3 points divided three time and so on.I know guys maxed out on all the weighted points still waiting and I talked with a guy last year that his son drew a tag in one of the hardest units to draw and he drew his second year,I beleive with a youth license.If it was a youth license,good I like the youth hunting licenses that colorado is providing.Wish I had that kind of chances when I was 12-16.
It's like most states they want to make money off of the non-resident.I've hunted in other states too and I expect to pay a higher license fee,just the way it works no way around it.
 
Every system for drawing has pros and cons.Talk to the guy who has put in for a tag somewhere for 15-20 years and hasnt draw.
Every so often some one who is relatively new to the points game comes on here and CRYS that the system is wrong or unfair.We pay alot of money to try and draw tags. Its only fair we get somthing out of the time and cash to put in...Why should some one who is just starting have as good a chance as we do? Get in line boys....
 
camuleycrazy,
Ya your right I don't know a thing about the PP system,I've never used it.
The point that I was getting at before it was taken in a different direction is TO MANY APPLICANTS ARE APPLYING FOR A TAG THEY DON'T HAVE A CHANCE AT DRAWING, THEN THE PP GO UP so people should learn to use the PP hunt code.
If you would do your homework you would understand it as well as I do.
If I don't understand it how did I draw a tag about 4 years ago with 1 PP when it said it took 4 PP?Had the same number of applicants but when doing my homework and looking at the stats I relized I had a 65% chance to draw.
Not a .05% chance like some guys putting in for the trophy units.
People draw with less PP all the time so just because you have more doesn't mean you'll draw.
I have 10 PP now and no one will know until I drop in and apply for my tag and take one out from underneath them.
 
I have been applying for Preference Points for both Colorado and Wyoming since Preference Points were invented. The purpose of my post was just to let you know about a plan that I thought would be more fair to the person who likes to hunt the west on a regular basis, not just every 5 to 20 years when you happen to have enough points to draw.

Now before you go saying that you hunt the west every year, so do I and yea I know that in Colorado and Wyoming you can apply for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th choices. I have in fact hunted quite a few times on 2nd choice tags and also over the counter Elk in Colorado.

My point is this, I would like the states to do away with Preference Points totally but I'm a realist and know that is going to happen (its a cash cow for the states). So at the very least wouldn't it be nice if other States were like Wyoming and set aside a minimum of 25% of the tags for a General Draw for anybody whether you have any Pref Pts or not?

Using my example above, lets say you have a unit that allocates 100 tags, 75 tags would go to the the applicants with the most Preference Points and 25 tags would be available to everyone regardless of whether they have points or not. This is what I mean "Luck of the Draw". They could do this same formula for every unit anywhere.

In my original post, my "plan" was to do away with Preference Points entirely. For those people who had Preference Points they would have received extra applications in the draw for each preference point that they had until they drew the tag. Over time this would wean everyone away from Preference Points and eventually the draws would all go back to "Luck of the Draw".

I personally would like all the states to go back to the way Wyoming used to be. You applied, you either drew a tag or not. They can keep an extra X amount of dollars as an application fee to keep the Game and Fish departments in business.

In closing I do understand how the Preference Point game works. The applicant with the most points gets the tags and the applicants with the lesser points than the max points get tags on a sliding scale if there are tags left. Example:; 10 tags available, 15 applicants, 6 applicants have 6 points, 3 have 4 points, 1 has 3 points and the rest have 1 point. All would get a tag except for the applicants with 1 point. It is possible to draw a tag wtih less than the max points and it happens I would say every year in several units but you certainly can plan on it.

Take Care,

300 Wtby
 
I think the only point that I agree with out of all these posts is that a pure preference point system is unfair to everyone except those that got in on the ground floor of the system. I say this because it is impossible to draw some units unless you got in on the ground floor. For instance, Colorado unit 10 bull elk, if you are applying for the first time this year, forget about it in this life!! Just because it takes 15 points this year does not mean that is constant. Next year it will be 16, the following year 17. Why? Because there are not enough tags to wipe out one level of point holders each year. (ie. 4 nonresident tags per year for 20 people with max points). Thus, you can never draw the tag. You will always be at least 14 points behind those that will actually draw the tag.
A straight up draw is wrong because you may never draw the tag while your neighbor may draw the tag 5 times. Yes that happens.
The fairest system is that of Nevada. You get a bonus point each year you don't draw. Those points are squared and that is the amount of chances you get in the draw. 2 points means you get 4 chances at the draw. 4 points means you get 16 chances at the draw. That way everyone has a shot to draw even on year one and those that hang in the draw for years get an advantage where they will eventually draw. It works the best for everyone.
 
I have no points anywhere and I have no problems with Colorado's system. The system is fair. Save for the difference between caps on NR tags, it treats all the same. Might be nice to put a cap on the number of points one can accumulate to eliminate creep, but I wouldn't agree to that if I had 15 points. All the grousing I hear about PP system focuses on the relatively few tags for premier hunts and ignores the thousands of tags that require less points. I'd argue that the system works very well most of the time. No system is perfect, and there will always be a demand for premier hunts. The chances of drawing trophy tags are slim no matter what system is in place.
 
I also like Nevada's system of squaring the points. I think it is the fairest because it does give the young guys a chance but it also gives you MUCH better chances if you stay in the game.10 points gives you 100 chances. Another thing that I like about Nevada is that they have alot of exclusive youth tags.
 
I like Nevada's system as well. It's fair and everyone has a chance. I wish Wyoming would do something like it here.

Being a Wyoming resident sucks in some ways. We are only allowed preference points for moose and sheep, while nonresidents can get the points for elk, deer and antelope as well. I've been trying for 31 years to get a sheep license and if I was a nonresident, I could literally pick several quality units and get a license right now with my max points. And I may never draw a quality deer, elk or antelope license. I'd like the chance to build points and someday plan for a quality deer or antelope hunt in my home state. As it is, I have not drawn a Red Desert antelope license since 1991, even though the odds in my area are only 3 or 4 to one. And I have never drawn a quality deer license. I can always hunt with a general license, but it would be nice to someday get a quality license in my home state. With the good mule deer hunting in Western Wyoming being mostly a thing of the past, I'd like to see Wyoming Game and Fish do something for residents and to manage deer in much smaller units.

There are just not enough residents to get the attention of the G&F. Evidently, we can't generate enough $$ to make managing to help residents worth their while.

Sorry for all of the "whining" but this is a big deal to me since the #1 reason I live in Wyoming is for the hunting.
 
Pre64, Colorado's point system isn't fair because all applicants don't theoretically have a chance at drawing in any given unit. Of course, there are other units to draw and most people go for those. However, there is nothing fair about a system that completely locks you out of some units if you were not of legal age at the inception of the system. It should be changed to give a first year applicant some chance to draw even if it is slim.

Nevada's point squaring system is the best of all systems because it is a revolving system. Colorado's point system has become top heavy and stagnant for premium units.
 
There is no way to get out of the mess of point systems et al!

You can not stop them,,,,, with people waiting 15 years for a tag! You will have a riot!

Once you go with a point system, you are stuck with it!

I like the NM Powerball system!
 
Lets not confuse equity with equality. Co's system certainly is not equall; it discriminates against people with fewer points. But it is equitable; it treats every applicant the same based on the number of points an applicant has earned. Like I said, no system is perfect and point creep is a problem. In order to give newcomers a chance at a premier hunt one must lessen the chances of someone who has made sacrifices to get at the front of the line. Indeed, Co's system is less attractive to someone who wants a premier hunt and is just starting to earn points. But you can't call a system unfair because some people have earned more points than you. Like Elkman says, we're stuck with it.
 
I was in a meeting in Salt Lake and an attorney said that the Colorado system, if challenged in Federal court, would be tossed out. Hunts are on Federal land, and you cannot discriminate based upon age. A 12 year old, or even a 18 year old with 6 PP cannot draw a tag in some units, even though they have applied properly every year they were eligible to apply. Oregon, Utah and Wyoming get around this by having some portion of the tags as randomly drawn. We do not want lawyers and judges managing wildlife, so hopefully the Commission will address this. The ideal situation would be to announce that the PP system will be modified beginning in 2012, with max PP for any species being 3, and any unused PP after 2011 > 3 will convert to WPP, and the system will then work the same as the goat, sheep and moose thereafter. This would be an option to going completely or partially random. I do not hunt CO any more, so I really do not care, but it is a great state and needs to be more proactive with new ideas to ensure the support of the resident and nonresident hunters, before the money dries up, and it likely will if the nonresidents quit applying and coming to hunt in CO.
 
In Washington we use bonus points instead of Pref points. But if you draw any of your choices you lose your points. It does not matter if you draw your first choice or your fourth choice your points are gone.

Do you think this system would work in states that use Pref points?
 
Will it work? I do not know. It is an option, clearly. The benefit of the current system is that it lets a hunter plan ahead and rewards commitment. The downside is that he may be too old to hunt before he draws, or he may lose interest during the wait and quit applying in CO. By having a 3 point PP system, there are a large percentage of hunt codes that will not ever reach three points, so the planning aspect my still be workable for those units. As far as losing PP if you draw, many people have argued that any first choice drawn resets points to zero, or any bull or buck tag acquired - drawn 1st choice, second choice, leftover, etc. or acquired via landowner voucher system - will also reset to PP and WPP to zero. The other issue is the split of tags between those who are residents and those who are not. There is lots of emotion here, but there are some pretty significant economics in play, and we cannot affort to screw that up - either way - with too many or too few opportunities for the NR hunter.
 
>I was in a meeting in Salt Lake and an attorney said that the Colorado system, if challenged in Federal court, would be tossed out. Hunts are on Federal land, and you cannot discriminate based upon age. A 12 year old, or even a 18 year old with 6 PP cannot draw a tag in some units, even though they have applied properly every year they were eligible to apply. Oregon, Utah and Wyoming get around this by having some portion of the tags as randomly drawn. We do not want lawyers and judges managing wildlife, so hopefully the Commission will address this. The ideal situation would be to announce that the PP system will be modified beginning in 2012, with max PP for any species being 3, and any unused PP after 2011 > 3 will convert to WPP, and the system will then work the same as the goat, sheep and moose thereafter. This would be an option to going completely or partially random. I do not hunt CO any more, so I really do not care, but it is a great state and needs to be more proactive with new ideas to ensure the support of the resident and nonresident hunters, before the money dries up, and it likely will if the nonresidents quit applying and coming to hunt in CO.


That's interesting.
 

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