Question on Antelope?
- Thread starter quest
- Start date
Antelope dont drop their horn totally. They just shed their sheeth ( SP? ) the black part. This happens in Novemeber. They do not last too long before they get chewed on by mice and what not. There are some better Antelope people on here than me but I think I am pretty close
John
John
B
Bura Nut
Guest
By almost blind luck, I found a shed couple years back. I was up by Springerville AZ and saw a buck with some doe's that only had one horn. Later when the herd moved, I went out and searched all around the area and did find one horn. The mice really do eat them up quick. Unlike anters, antelope horns are hair and they deteriorate quickly......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
I have found a few horn sheaths while antelope hunting in August and Sept. But most seem disappear quickly. I hunted antelope near the end of Oct in Idaho one year and many bucks had already shed by that time. It was very disappointing. My bucks horn sheath pulled off as I moved around to bone it out.
----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
Antelope sheaths are made up of keratin, the same stuff as your hair and fingernails are made of.
Antelope bucks drop these sheaths usually at the end of the rut, and they start growing them back immediately.
As stated mice and small rodents love to eat them, full of chemicals, i.e. protein, so they don;t stay around long.
I've been lucky to find a couple out on hunts, and I use them in our Hunter Education classes to show kids what they are and how they differ from horns and antlers.
Here is a question to ponder. What do you think the legality is of shooting a buck in Arizona that has just dropped his sheaths?
It happened here in Kingman, many years ago when a lady hunter had been watching this buck all summer, then on her hunt, she saw the same buck buck, but he had recently dropped both of his sheaths... She shot him anyway (I know, what the heck was she thinking?) I did a story on her in our local newspaper, what do you think G&F reaction was?
Don Martin
Antelope bucks drop these sheaths usually at the end of the rut, and they start growing them back immediately.
As stated mice and small rodents love to eat them, full of chemicals, i.e. protein, so they don;t stay around long.
I've been lucky to find a couple out on hunts, and I use them in our Hunter Education classes to show kids what they are and how they differ from horns and antlers.
Here is a question to ponder. What do you think the legality is of shooting a buck in Arizona that has just dropped his sheaths?
It happened here in Kingman, many years ago when a lady hunter had been watching this buck all summer, then on her hunt, she saw the same buck buck, but he had recently dropped both of his sheaths... She shot him anyway (I know, what the heck was she thinking?) I did a story on her in our local newspaper, what do you think G&F reaction was?
Don Martin
OutdoorWriter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,340
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-09 AT 02:46PM (MST)[p]>>Here is a question to ponder. What do you think the legality is of shooting a buck in Arizona that has just dropped his sheaths?
Last I looked, there is absolutely no requirement that a legal buck pronghorn must have horns, much less be a certain length. The only requirement is that it is male.
So perhaps other than wondering why the lady would shoot a sheathless critter, G&F didn't really care as long as they could see cores and the 'lope's nuts.
And of course, the black cheek patch is a good indicator, as well.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
Last I looked, there is absolutely no requirement that a legal buck pronghorn must have horns, much less be a certain length. The only requirement is that it is male.
So perhaps other than wondering why the lady would shoot a sheathless critter, G&F didn't really care as long as they could see cores and the 'lope's nuts.
And of course, the black cheek patch is a good indicator, as well.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
Tony:
Remember this happened about 15 years ago... and there WAS a requirement for a legal buck at that time and up to 2006.
In the 2005-2006 Arizona Hunting a Trapping regulations it defined a legal antelope (page 17): Buck Antelope: means a male pronghorn antelope with a horn longer than its ears as defined in R-12-4-101.
In 2007 it changed to its current definition which states, Buck antelope means a male pronghorn antelope as defined in R-12-4-101 (Page 11 2007 Pronghorn Antelope & elk hunt draw information).
In this case the antelope didn't even have one sheath....but it was obvious it was a buck (dark cheek patch, and yes, a handful of testicles!)...
Keep guessing..
Remember, antelope don't have horns, yet they are not antlers by definition.
As far as I know, they are the only animal that fits in this class..
The sheaths grow on a bony core.. so does that mean the one or BOTH cores has to be longer than an ear, or is it the sheath that has to be longer than its ears (which ear?)? That was the legal question that was posed in this case.
Don Martin
Remember this happened about 15 years ago... and there WAS a requirement for a legal buck at that time and up to 2006.
In the 2005-2006 Arizona Hunting a Trapping regulations it defined a legal antelope (page 17): Buck Antelope: means a male pronghorn antelope with a horn longer than its ears as defined in R-12-4-101.
In 2007 it changed to its current definition which states, Buck antelope means a male pronghorn antelope as defined in R-12-4-101 (Page 11 2007 Pronghorn Antelope & elk hunt draw information).
In this case the antelope didn't even have one sheath....but it was obvious it was a buck (dark cheek patch, and yes, a handful of testicles!)...
Keep guessing..
Remember, antelope don't have horns, yet they are not antlers by definition.
As far as I know, they are the only animal that fits in this class..
The sheaths grow on a bony core.. so does that mean the one or BOTH cores has to be longer than an ear, or is it the sheath that has to be longer than its ears (which ear?)? That was the legal question that was posed in this case.
Don Martin
OutdoorWriter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,340
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-09 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]Don,
You're right, of course. I missed the many years ago part. The law has changed but my answer would still apply to the question in the present tense below:
>>Here is a question to ponder. What do you think the legality is of shooting a buck in Arizona that has just dropped his sheaths?
Now, why do you say pronghorns do not have horns? The only difference with them and other critters with horns, also made up of keratin formed to inner cores, is that the antelope shed theirs annually -- the only horned creature to do so. Perhaps that's what you meant?
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
You're right, of course. I missed the many years ago part. The law has changed but my answer would still apply to the question in the present tense below:
>>Here is a question to ponder. What do you think the legality is of shooting a buck in Arizona that has just dropped his sheaths?
Now, why do you say pronghorns do not have horns? The only difference with them and other critters with horns, also made up of keratin formed to inner cores, is that the antelope shed theirs annually -- the only horned creature to do so. Perhaps that's what you meant?
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
Tony:
I think the broad generally accepted definition of horned animals is that they do not shed their sheaths and continue to grow throughout the years..
Antlered game animal (i.e. elk, mule deer) do of course shed their antlers, which is bone, annually.
In so far as the horns of other game animals, i.e. desert bighorn sheep, it is true they are also made of keratin.
Like you said, pronghorn antelope are the only species of critters that shed these sheaths, thus they are in a class by themselves of HORNED critters.
Thanks,
Don Martin
I think the broad generally accepted definition of horned animals is that they do not shed their sheaths and continue to grow throughout the years..
Antlered game animal (i.e. elk, mule deer) do of course shed their antlers, which is bone, annually.
In so far as the horns of other game animals, i.e. desert bighorn sheep, it is true they are also made of keratin.
Like you said, pronghorn antelope are the only species of critters that shed these sheaths, thus they are in a class by themselves of HORNED critters.
Thanks,
Don Martin
OutdoorWriter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,340
>>I think the broad generally accepted definition of horned animals is that they do not shed their sheaths and continue to grow throughout the years..
Righto -- sorta. In reality, the definition -- and difference between antlers -- is simple, as we've already described. Horned animals have outer sheaths of keratin over a boney core and antlered animals grow solid antlers of bone.
The other unique feature of the pronghorn is the prong itself. No other horned animal has any branching to its horns.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
Righto -- sorta. In reality, the definition -- and difference between antlers -- is simple, as we've already described. Horned animals have outer sheaths of keratin over a boney core and antlered animals grow solid antlers of bone.
The other unique feature of the pronghorn is the prong itself. No other horned animal has any branching to its horns.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
CouesFanatic
Active Member
- Messages
- 707
They have horns, no wait they are antlers. No wait, they don't fall in a class. Lets discuss this unique creature. Wait lets discuss this again, do they have horns? No, its keratin, oh wait what do we call them. Maybe we should call Obama, he can tell us.
M
maddglasser
Guest
HMMMM????????????
CouesFanatic
Active Member
- Messages
- 707
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-09 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-09 AT 09:13?PM (MST)
ok heres the answer to the impossible question.
Who cares what happened to the lady?!
What happened to the infamous Ted Bundy? Who cares?!
Lets get back to arguing about the antelope HORNS!
ok heres the answer to the impossible question.
Who cares what happened to the lady?!
What happened to the infamous Ted Bundy? Who cares?!
Lets get back to arguing about the antelope HORNS!
Bates7
Moderator
- Messages
- 947
I'd like to take a stab at it. I know that if I was a game warden back then I would've let her go without a ticket because that goat had a pair of testys. A buck is a buck and she'd been scouting it for all that time, she had accually taken ownership of that animal before she killed it. Am I right? Huh, huh, huh...
T
TAGATTRACTER
Guest
Don, G&F would have ticketed her under the law of a horn longer than the ear. Since both sheeths had dropped the Antelope had no horn.
What do I win?
What do I win?
Buckhunter1
Active Member
- Messages
- 569
Im sure they took her antelope and wrote her a ticket, although most game rangers in AZ seem to be decent nice people to deal with. Heck I even fell in love with one that checked me in unit 9 one year, cant remember her name though. The problem is the dummies on the game commision board. They will break everybody off! Heck they cant even come up with a deer drawing thats fair or on time! Anybody hear anything yet? BH1
Horniac
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,336
Don,
My guess is that she was issued a citation for the horns not being longer than the ears. She then fought the citation based on the definition of "horns" and the citation was ultimately dropped by the Game & Fish Department due to this technicality. Then, partly because of this case, AG&F changed the definition of a legal buck...
Horniac
My guess is that she was issued a citation for the horns not being longer than the ears. She then fought the citation based on the definition of "horns" and the citation was ultimately dropped by the Game & Fish Department due to this technicality. Then, partly because of this case, AG&F changed the definition of a legal buck...
Horniac
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
Guys:
This was a question that was mulled over by the Law Enforcement guys in Region III.
Upon measuring the CORES of the horns, they determined that ONE OF THEM was longer than the buck's ears, so they let her keep it, no citation, nothing!
They did the right thing in my opinion, and subsequently, as Tony correctly pointed out, the rule was changed to where it reads that a legal buck is now ANY male pronghorn antelope as defined by R12-4-101.
I still wonder why she shot that particular buck, she saw others during the hunt, and she didn't take her trophy to a taxidermist either. Even a European mount would look kinda funny.
Oh well, guess that's why there is chocolate and vanilla ice cream....
Don Martin
This was a question that was mulled over by the Law Enforcement guys in Region III.
Upon measuring the CORES of the horns, they determined that ONE OF THEM was longer than the buck's ears, so they let her keep it, no citation, nothing!
They did the right thing in my opinion, and subsequently, as Tony correctly pointed out, the rule was changed to where it reads that a legal buck is now ANY male pronghorn antelope as defined by R12-4-101.
I still wonder why she shot that particular buck, she saw others during the hunt, and she didn't take her trophy to a taxidermist either. Even a European mount would look kinda funny.
Oh well, guess that's why there is chocolate and vanilla ice cream....
Don Martin
M
maddglasser
Guest
Getting back to the horns of delima question...Do they taste great or are they less filling. What came first the sheath or the horn, and last but not least to shed or not to shed, that is the question!
Arizona Hunting Guides & Outfitters
SilverGrand Outfitters
Offering mule deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, javelina, and turkey hunts in Nevada and Arizona.
Arizona Elk Outfitters
Offering the serious hunter a chance to hunt trophy animals in the great Southwest.
A3 Trophy Hunts
An Arizona Outfitter specializing in the harvest of World Class big game of all species.
Arizona Strip Guides
Highly experienced and highly dedicated team of hardworking professional Arizona Strip mule deer guides.
Shadow Valley Outfitters
AZ Strip and Kaibab mule deer, big bulls during the rut, spot-n-stalk pronghorn and coues deer hunts.