"Real" Hunters Response

M

MTQuivers

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I am posting this in response to the thread titled "any real hunters out there?

I had to comment on this one. I am from Utah and I am a die hard mule deer guy. Spot and stalk archery hunting is my favorite way to hunt. I have had in the past similar negative feelings about whitetails, treestands, bait, eastern hunts, private property, etc. A few years ago I got the chance to go to Kansas to hunt whitetails. My wifes sister moved out there and a friend from her church invited me to hunt his property. He owns 4 properties and the largest one is probably 150 acres. I thought what the heck I will give it a try. I did not think I would like treestand hunting but I wanted a whitetail with a bow so I decided it was worth the trip. Heck all I had to buy was the tag and a plane ticket. On some of the properties and on some of the stands he had placed corn as bait. I figured it was cheating but heck it was his property so I went along with it.
That was almost 3 years ago and after logging about 13 days and an average of 10 hours per day in those stands (over 100 hours over the past two seasons) I have seen a grand total of 5 does and one spike buck come in and eat the corn that he placed out there. Now don't get me wrong I saw plenty of whitetail and I shot bucks from treestands both years but neither were on stands with bait and from what I saw very few deer are interested in the corn during the daylight hours.
People out west think that treestand hunting is so easy and all you do is climb up there and the deer come in. That just is not true. I strategically placed stands the day before both of my whitetails were killed based on travel patterns I had seen. Just because there is bait or a food plot does not mean anything is guarenteed. In fact from what I saw it means very little.
I have shot a mature elk, two antelope, one mule deer, a turkey, and a black bear already this year and as a western bowhunter I can tell you that I can't wait for November 6th which is the day I fly back to Kansas for 10 days to hunt whitetails. I think sometimes we are jealous of things we know nothing about. If you have never hunted whitetails from a treestand don't knock it. I am telling you it is a blast. You sit there and hear leaves crunching behind your stand and footsteps approaching and you never know if it is a buck, a doe, a squirrel, a turkey, a coyote, I even had a bobcat walk by last year. Watching animals that don't know you are there is awesome. It makes you really appreciate these awesome animals that we all love. If it is a food plot that keeps them close by so be it. It is an awesome experience and that is what I look for in my hunting trips. Encounters with the animals is what it is all about. I would never hunt a high fence ranch but treestands and food plots in my experience still leave plenty of challenges for any bowhunter or even rifle hunters. If you don't believe me you should try it.
I personally would not do "canned" hunts of any kind, because everything I love about hunting involves the challenge of it. If the first time I hunted whitetails I killed a 170" buck over a feeder on the first night I would have never gone back to hunt whitetails again. It would have offered me nothing; but instead I have sat for over 100 hours in treestands to kill a 120" and a 134" buck and because of that I can't wait to go back in November. There is a place for food plots, water holes, and even feeders in hunting certain animals as long as it leaves the hunter a serious challenge. It is no different than hunting a mule deer at 10,000 feet in his bedding or feeding area. You are still taking advantage of the deers weakness.

Just my opinion


Jason Yates
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Very insightful post. I think a lot of us, myself included, often times go off half cocked with opinions of stuff we ourselves know little to nothing about. One of these days I'd like to connect with a whitetail myself as I've never done it and it looks like a good excuse to be outdoors.
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+1 Jason! I too hunt Kansas for whitetails and it can be some of the most miserable conditions to hunt in that you can possibly expose yourself to. Long hours in stands in sub zero temps with 30 mph winds and big bucks that go completely nocturnal on you. I appreciate the different hunting styles on different animals in different parts of the country. Fun stuff! Most of the opposition are self righteous oppinions. Some feel that if it's not done the way they do it then it doesn't count for some reason. Not sure where that attitude comes from.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
Another +1

Where I live the only deer we have to hunt is whitetails and the only method to effectively hunt them is by stand hunting.

Baiting is legal but I choose not to bait for the same reasons as the post above. I don't give you ANY advantage! Wise old bucks know it's not natural for a corn pile to be out in the woods! If your baiting your mainly just feeding does and fawns. If a buck does come to eat you can bet your arse it will be at night.

I've done a lot of hunting out west and I love it, it is challenging and it is my favorite type of hunting. But it's also very tough to set in a tree stand or on the ground and just wait for hours in the cold. Out west your mobile and can at least stay warm.

One hunt I remember very well was our muzzleloader opener in 1996. It was 11 degrees that morning and I sat 6 hours in a tree stand and saw NOTHING! When I left the stand the climb down felt like it was ripping my cold flesh! :eek:
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Success is failure that tried one more time
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-09 AT 05:48AM (MST)[p]Not many "GLASSING" opportunities when your hunting areas look like this

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Sure you can still hunt on damp or wet days but not when its dry and the leaves are crunching like corn flakes under your feet!

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Success is failure that tried one more time
 
great post jason, not everybody out east uses corn either. we dont have high mountians out here but it takes alot of work to get stands ready to hunt whities. and i agree with the part u said about not seeing big deer near a corn pile, they just dont come to it often.
 
I am going to weigh in on this-possibly at the risk of ruffling some feathers.

I believe these arguments about baiting,treestands,etc. are primarily the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of hunting in the West vs. hunting in the East. Animals are mostly hunted by spot and stalk in the West because that is what works-it would be impractical in most cases to hunt them any other way(I know there are exceptions). The animals and the terrain make it so.

(Here is where I am going to start trouble.)

Also, I believe a mature whitetail buck is one of the most wary and elusive animals on the face of the earth.You will NOT spot and stalk a big,mature whitetail buck in any area with cover. You will not even spot him-much less stalk him. So treestands/blinds (and sometimes baiting to create a gathering area)are the only ways to hunt them in most places.

Here's the deal that I believe illustrates my point: I have hunted whitetails for over 35 years in some excellent areas here in TX. I own my own 375 acre farm that has several record class bucks on it. I hunt for several weeks most years. I am at least an adequate hunter-you can't do it at long as I have without learning something. I have taken dozens of deer with a rifle and 12 or so with my bow. I have taken exactly TWO record class bucks.

I have hunted out West and in the Yukon a total of seven times (some outfitted-some not). I have taken a record book moose(archery), a trophy elk, a trophy ram, and two very good antelope. Western hunting is just fundamentally different. It is physically more demanding but the chances of success on a mature animal(even with a limited amount of time) are much greater. That's just a fact-like it or not. So the "holier than thou" stuff about baiting/foodplots/blinds/treestands from those who have never hunted whitetails is just misplaced. JMHO.
 
Good points. I have hunted both ways and have seen the disadvantages and advantages to both. The stand hunting I have done in Texas was an adventure to say the least. Once I had to kill 3 black widows in the dark that had taken up residence in the stand before I could even get in it. I spent the rest of the morning looking for deer coming in to the feeder while keeping a lookout for more widows. It was foggy and a few does came in to the shooting lane and moved out before I even knew they were there. Then the feeder went off and I could see a few figures in midst moving in to it, one was a decent buck, but didn't have a clean shot. Then, because they had been conditioned to the sound of the feeder, here came a herd of hogs that ran all the deer off. I could have easily killed 3 of them, but since I really wanted a deer, I let them go. Needless to say the deer were gone. Deciding to use the fog as cover, I exited my stand and made a short hike over to another stand - got busted by some does crossing in between. Finally get to near the other feeder and sure enough there are some deer there, one good buck that I can only make out through the binos. So I had to stalk him. The cover around him was too think and thorny for me to walk through, so I had to stalk through the open field. And again, got busted by does before I got within 300 yards. Did get a couple of running shots off, but came no where near close to hitting the buck.

Even though the deer were conditioned to come to the feeder, actually getting one proved to be just as difficult as anywhere else.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
""Also, I believe a mature whitetail buck is one of the most wary and elusive animals on the face of the earth.You will NOT spot and stalk a big,mature whitetail buck in any area with cover. You will not even spot him-much less stalk him. So treestands/blinds (and sometimes baiting to create a gathering area)are the only ways to hunt them in most places.""


Benoit's may disagree with you.to say its impossible to stalk a whitetail is almost laughable.
 
One thing about stalking them in the thick stuff where I hunt whitetails is you just can't see them.

More than once I have been going through the brush and thought I could smell a rutting buck, I stop to try to get a better smell and a buck would erupt out of the brush (once just feet away!)and take off hell bent for the next county!

Its amazing how tiny of an amount of brush an animal that size can crawl up into and hide in. I'm sure had I or any other hunter kept walking the bucks would have sit tight and let me walk right past.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-09 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]I agree with reddog...to say you "cant stalk" whitetails is flat wrong-headed.

I've shot a boatload of whitetails, never shot a single one from a tree stand or over a bait pile.

Shot them all spot and stalk or still hunting on the ground...found some limited success:

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""Also, I believe a mature whitetail buck is one of the most wary and elusive animals on the face of the earth.You will NOT spot and stalk a big,mature whitetail buck in any area with cover. You will not even spot him-much less stalk him. So treestands/blinds (and sometimes baiting to create a gathering area)are the only ways to hunt them in most places.""

"Benoit's may disagree with you.to say its impossible to stalk a whitetail is almost laughable."

It is a big mistake to try and generalize when it come to whitetails. Look at their range and the habitat they call home ? more diverse across the country than any other big game animal. Not all whitetails are created equal and not all behave the same.

The beloits hunt big timber with (relatively speaking) little hunting pressure. And (based on what I know) they always have tracking snow. Snow is a luxury most whitetail hunters do not have.

It is not accurate to say you can not spot and stalk ?any? whitetails. But I would agree, across a good portion of their range you can not spot and stalk whitetails. I have used spot and stalk on them in Kansas ? open country and you can use a rifle. But ? spot and stalk is not an option in my home state of IL.

Why do you think most bow hunters use tree stands when hunting whitetails? Because it is nearly impossible to spot and stalk a mature whitetail buck (with very few exceptions).

I know of a bunch of really big deer that are killed in fairly populated areas (farm country). After those deer are killed you can ask local farmers, guys that are out there everyday, if they have ever seen that deer and they scratch their heads and say nope. Those deer give a whole new meaning to nocturnal. If you could not hunt those big farm country whitetails in the rut ? you would never know they existed.

Good post. I agree ? don't knock it until you try it.
 
Buzz, you can't even compare the mostly open country you have taken most of your bucks in compared to the terrain photo completesportsman posted. That stuff is virtually impossible to stalk deer in. BTW, great looking bucks, very nice!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-09 AT 12:01PM (MST)[p]There isnt a whitetail made...no matter where...that cant be hunted successfully from the ground, and that includes anywhere they're found.

Most hunters responding to the contrary are obviously whipped before they ever got a start...not a good combination for success.

Whitetail arent always easy, but thats a far cry from "impossible", at least for those hunters with a positive attitude and common sense.

BTW, those whitetails were all shot on heavily hunted public land with OTC tags.

Never seemed hard to me to out-smart a mature whitetail...and even easier yet to outsmart the 99% of average hunters that pursue them.
 
Nice bucks Buzz...

"There isnt a whitetail made...no matter where...that cant be hunted successfully from the ground, and that includes anywhere they're found."

Not busting your balls. Where did you shoot those bucks? WY/ID? Have you hunted them anywhere else? Again - not busting your chops...just curious?

I respectfully disagree with your above statement.

Weapon type means a lot as well. Bow is different than shotgun is different than rifle.
 
Just for curiousity sake...where on plant earth would you find it "impossible" to kill a whitetail buck from the ground with a bow, rifle or shotgun? I'm more than confident that there are many hunters out there who successfully have killed old, mature whitetail from the ground in every single state whitetail are found. I'd also bet some have done it monotonously...year in and year out.

More difficult in some places??? Sure, but again, a long way from impossible.

Not saying there isnt even better ways to hunt them in some places, tree stands, etc. but its wrong to say it cant be done consistantly from the ground without a tree stand and a bait pile with your weapon of choice.

They arent ghosts...they breath air, they eat food, and they're all vulnerable to knowledgeable hunters despite the chosen method.

That is simply fact.

For the record, I've hunted them in MT and WY...mostly Western Montana.
 
Nice bucks Buzz! :) I am guessing by the photos those are MT or ID whiteys? Again its east vs west types of hunting.

I have hunted them in MT and it is nowhere near the same as hunting them in the Appalachian mountains where I live.

You can hunt them from the ground but not "stalk" them. Once the leaves fall from the trees here the deer will hear you coming a day away! ;-)

Here's my 2008 buck I was on the ground but was sitting still so I may as well have been stand hunting. Visibility is about 100yds max and with the leaves you can't spot and stalk.

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Success is failure that tried one more time
 
Read my post carefully please.I couched my conclusions primarily based on East vs. West and habitat/cover.

Buzz those are nice bucks but,again, western open-country deer.If you think you can go out in the thickets and hardwood bottoms where I hunt and spot and stalk a mature whitetail buck you are in for a humbling experience....
 
Anybody remember the Dinky Dog Deer Thread that got started at RT by some crusty MM'rs? That was classic.

Bean
 
I guess everyone likes to think they're way of hunting is the most difficult. In reality there are no easy ways of hunting large bucks anywhere.

Good luck everybody, its almost deer hunting time! I got a nice one (what we call a 10 pointer in the east, imagine a southern drawl here) a few weeks ago with the bow in NC. Muzzleloader season opens 10-31 in VA, I can't wait!

Hope to see some hero shots from some of you guys a little later!

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Success is failure that tried one more time
 
I agree ? nothing is impossible. In fact all the whitetails I have killed have been from the ground ? but with a shotgun or muzzleloader. Like CSM said ? not necessarily spot and stalk. From the ground and S&S are two differant things.

Spot and stalk with a bow on big mature whitetails in some places ? could be damn close to impossible. But I am sure someone will give me an example.

I will post a not so good pic of my best if it is not too large. Shot him with a shotgun and the doe he was with was the game changer?both feet were planted firmly on the ground. Lol.
 
I've hunted them in both places east and west. I've killed them on the ground in both places, killed them from trees in both places. They're animals. IMO neither is harder to hunt than the other. What makes them so much harder to hunt in the east is the lack of large tracts of land to chase them around on.

Spot and stalk in the east is possible, I've done it. The leaves make it a whole diffrent ball game, but its not impossible by any means. There are squirrels all over the place making noise in the leaves. When the leaves are gone you can see 2-3x as far in the woods as well.

There is some thick timber in western MT. When I lived out east I often remarked that the rolling hills of the Apps was similar to Northwestern MT and Northern ID. Thick, thick thick... You can't see very far and shots are likely going to be pretty close range.
 
Hey Bambistew,
I think I read somewhere you moved to AK? Hows that going? THAT is the last frontier!

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Success is failure that tried one more time
 
After reading the posts I want to comment once again. I do not think that the individual who said "impossible" really meant impossible! Sometimes words like that are used loosly to make a point. Of course nothing is impossible, but it is very difficult to truly spot and stalk a whitetail in many heavily wooded areas especially with a bow and especially when the leaves are down and crunchy. In the pictures posted it looks like fairly open terrain which obviously allows for spot and stalk but with a bow in thick timber treestands are the best option and for the patient strategic hunter the best bet at killing a mature buck.

Jason Yates
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Here is my 2008 Kansas buck. The first year I hunted whitetails in Kansas I tried to stalk a few with my bow and I just ended up pushing them off the 150 acres property I was hunting. I quickly found patience in a treestand is your best bet. Waking up very early and getting in the stand well before light was crucial. Also staying in the stand all day ups your odds. I never believed in scent control products before Kansas (because I typically hike 1-2 hours into my hunting areas in Utah and I figure I am going to smell no matter what!) but after Kansas I fully believe scent control products have there place. Trying lots of different hunting methods and learning new tricks for different animals keeps hunting interesting and is what it is all about for me. I am not typically a patient guy but from what I have seen if I am hunting country like that in Kansas you will find me in a treestand all day long.

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Jason Yates
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cbeard and feleno,

Not sure where you get the "mostly open country"...

Where I hunt whitetails its "mostly" thick timber with a few openings here and there.

Of roughly 130 whitetails killed by my family since 1980 in the areas we hunt...average shot distance is 60 yards. It would seem intuitively obvious that if the country was "mostly open"...the average shot distance would be a bit further.

I guess I need to learn more about whitetails from the pros, until then I'll just keep stumbling around the woods being humbled.

In regards to that "mostly open" country:

No trees here:

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Nor here either:

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Oh, and a few more that humbled my younger brother:

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One last picture...I will agree that this Wyoming whitetail I shot last year on a 1/2 hour hunt on public land I'd never seen until the day I hunted there, was in fact out in truly open country. Was enroute to hunt deer/elk in Montana and decided to try a quick morning hunt on some state land, not bad for a 1/2 hour detour off the interstate.

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MTQuivers

Nice post. Sounds like its from a guy that just likes to hunt - me to. Good luck this November, I'll have to try it sometime.
 
Hey Quivers, You make enough sense that you really must be from Pioneer land. I have been hunting whitetail all over the west since you were a pup...even took your dad to MT but he was more interested in a stinky ol muley. I have been trying to take a big whitey with my bow for almost twenty years [150 or better]and I am still trying. Pope and Young muleys seem to come much easier for me. I always will give an old whitetail the credit they deserve!
 
Food plots and baiting are about as much of a sport as shooting my cows in the pasture.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-09 AT 09:36PM (MST)[p]Yates, In my original post I was not aiming any of my "REAL HUNTER" remarks at whitetail hunters. I should have said specifically mule deer hunters and in Utah.
 
If you haven't hunted whitetails on small woodlots in the East or South, I don't think you have an understanding why stands and bait might be necessary. Until you are hunting under an endless canopy of forest, you won't get it.

Buzz, I see lots of meadows in parks between your timber. In addition, you are glassing in your photos. You won't do any glassing in the CompleteOutdoorsman's photo, which is the habitat that I am accustomed to hunting whitetails in. Western whitetail hunting can't be compared to Eastern or Southern whitetail hunting because they are not similiar--completely different tactics.
 
I live and hunt in the rainforrests of western washington where the brush and timber is so thick that the average shot is under 30 yards. Food plots and bait do not work du e to the huge amount of natural feed. We actually have to work for our deer. I don't buy the "have to bait" mentality because of limited access.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

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HillbillyNnevada,

If I hunted those woods in CompleteOutdoorsmans photo the one thing I would assure you is that binoculars would be the last thing I left behind. (Yeah, I'm glassing...mostly for elk in those photos. I've shot a fair number of elk while hunting whitetails. Elk like the "open country" more than whitetails.)

Those leaves dont stay on those trees year round and I'm guessing they may be on the ground during hunting season. I also bet you can see pretty well once under the canopy...

I've shot a lot of whitetail in heavy timber inside 50 yards...trees are trees...much the same as a whitetail is a whitetail.

But, like I say, I'm no pro whitetail guy, and barely know anything about them.

I'll leave all further discussion of whitetails, habitats, and hunting techniques to the experts.
 
Grew up in Wisconsin. I have taken 56 whitetails with a bow from a tree. 150 with a gun, we have liberal limits in Wisconsin. I have hunted all over, just killed a tule bull in "Kalifornia". Still my all time favorite hunt is 11/6 thru 11/13 in wisconsin, full rut, tons of bucks. i am in heaven. No bait, just makes them wary, go to a western 3-d and watch guys make one bad shot after another out of a 15 foot stand let alone 22 feet. Great way to hunt.I now only take 160 plus bucks. I may go 2 years without a shot but lots of fun pics and my son gets to cut his teeth on nice stuff, way more fun for me at this point.
 
buzz hunting deer in pines is nothing like back east! under the canopy is thick nasty crunchy leaves, briar patches and lots of other under growth. and for the washington guy, how far can you go until you find a deer? national forest? public ground? ok can't compare to a tiny piece of private land back east. there is no public land in a lot of states and most of the pieces are smaller than 250 acres!
 
Buzz, I'm not disparaging you at all. It looks like you have done well for yourself on whitetails in the West. I just don't believe you can understand what it is like to hunt on a 40-50 acre parel of hardwoods where you cannot see more than 50 yards in any direction from a stand or on the ground for that matter due to forrest canopy. Spot and stalk is out of the question. Leave your binos at home and don't even think about a spotting scope. If you read your post you will see you used words like "guess" and "bet" becaue you are assuming a lot.

Everyone tries to rationalize "well we spot and stalk in Idaho or we hunt in forrests in Washington", IT IS NOT THE SAME AS EASTERN WHITETAIL HUNTING! I agree, baiting is not needed in the West do to the wide open country and abundance of public land. Tactics vary from the terrain and habitat. In essence, I compare this to you guys saying that you would do spot and stalk on bears in the Ontario boreal forrest instead of sitting bait.

I may have to take some of you guys hunting for whitetails back East so I can make you see the light. Tell me how spot and stalk and binos will help you on these candidates for my '09 whitetail tag.

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Hillbilly, hunting is hunting. a successful hunter will adapt to the terrain available. to say we dont understand couldn't be farther from the truth.
 
I wasn't looking to have a "who's the man" contest. It seems some people want to say that they can do ANYTHING and I am sure they could rope the moon, beat up my dad (and my uncles), and spot and stalk whitetails ANYWHERE....but in my experience back east tree stand hunting is the way to go and anyone who has hunted there would agree. Yes there are exceptions to that but they are exceptions not the rule. If someone that is "the man" can spot and stalk them out in the thick trees of the east with a bow then more power to em'. In my experience you are better off being patient in a stand then roaming around your 200 acres 50 times a day. Glassing works out west and I love sitting and glassing for hours but it would not work in Kansas where I hunt. I do use my glasses in the thick trees from my stand but only to identify incoming animals. With leaves on the ground it would be nearly impossible to get within bow range of these weary whitetails but on the other hand it would be nearly impossible for one of them to slip past me without me hearing him coming in those noisy leaves. Its lots of fun I am telling you all. If you have not done it don't knock it.

Jason Yates
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Reddog,
Ofcourse I can say you don't understand unless you have hunted under the circumstances I have described. As for adaptation, everyone keeps tring to say their Western tactics will work just as well in the East but they have never hunted in the East. Western tactics won't get you very far under the circumtances I have described. You will adapt to the tactics (stand, blinds or mabye even the evil bait) I have described or you won't kill anything. Period.

I guess the part that baffles me about this post is that guys that have never stepped foot East of the Mississippi (in a mule deer message board for that matter) are trying to tell the rest of us that have hunted East and West that their Western whitetail tactics will work just as well in the East. Come on now. I haven't hunted Dall sheep in Alaska so you will never hear me try to tell guys how to hunt Dall sheep in Alaska. Until you hunt 40-50 acre wood lots in the East, you can't speak on the topic without making generalizations based upon your own Western experiences. These generalizations are useless. I'm not trying to step on toes but this post is beginning to get ridiculous.
 
BTW, Buzz did you read the post about Bush's hunt where some guy tried to say that you are I are the same guy based upon IP addresses? Now, that's funny.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-09 AT 00:55AM (MST)[p]Hey BoneJunkie I was not aiming directly at you with this post. I was just trying to share a new found oppinion about eastern hunting. I felt the same way as you before hunting out there and after experiencing it I feel totally different. Very challenging and very fun.
I have never hunted over bait in Utah but my guess is it would be tough as well. Of course sitting over an alfalfa feild with a gun would be easy but sitting over a trophy rock at 10000 feet would not. The use of trophy rocks and other baits/scents in Utah is not illegal it is hunting over them that is illegal. I have never hunted over one but I have used them for trail cameras and after setting out tons of cameras with rocks and other baits I can say you would still have to be very patient to kill a mule deer over one. Especially a big mule deer. Most pics I get with them are in the dark. If you are going to treestand hunt out west I think sitting over an escape route or a highly trafficed trail is your best bet. Just my opinions.

Jason Yates
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+1 HillbillyNevada

If you haven't done both you can't speak intelligently on the subject.

Trying to twist the argument to say I said that whitetails couldn't be taken "from the ground",saying MT is just like an eastern woodlot,etc.,etc. to make your point is just a smokescreen.

Where I hunt whitetails and in most places back east you are not going to kill a mature buck by spot and stalk-period.Why? You ain't going to spot them to stalk them.That's it. (The only possible exceptions would be one at the peak of the rut lying with a doe in an open area that is rut-crazed and is not going to leave her or a super wet/rainy day and you are a HIGHLY skilled stalker.The chances of even scenarios like that working are infinitesimal.)You may stillhunt with occasional success-but the overall point is: in the conditions I am talking about you must let the deer come to you-NOT vice versa.

Chest-beat and condescend all you want but I know better....
 
cbeard is right on. In 35 years and 700 bowkills on our farm in wisconsin know one has ever killed one spot and stalk. And a big buck would thinks it's comical. Love to see the great hunters of the west slide thru the buckbrush like smoke and have his way with a "dumb" white tail. lol
 
To add to it. I have hosted tuff montana and wyoming hunters on rut bowhunts before. A) climb 22 feet in a tree and snap in, b) it's 20 below windchill, you need to sit still for 4 hours, not get frozen and oh yeah, try pulling your 75 lb. bow back quietly when the moment of truth comes and your johnson turtled 3 hours ago.....c) Make a 7 yard shot 22 feet up and know where to place the arrow. other then those issues eastern trophy white tail hunting is super easy! :)
 
Nice post MTQuivers, very well stated.

This stuff makes me chuckle. If someone likes to hunt a certain way, and it's legal, what the hell do you care anyway. It's the Chevy/Ford debate and it's a waste of everyones time.

My advise would be to get over yourselves, let others do as they please within the law, and be greatful that we have such wonderful opportunities to choose how we like to hunt, be it over bait, or on the ground still hunting the big timber. These are opportunities that are in large part an American only, and the majority of the world couldn't enjoy those choices if they wanted to.....may want to consider that next time you cut someone down about something as fickle as how they shot their last buck.

I personally couldn't give a rats rear end what anyone else thinks of what animal I select or how I choose to take it. I hunt for my own enjoyment and experience, no one elses. Only I can define what is a trophy to me, and so it would not make sense for me to try and define that for someone else.

You bait hunt...good for you (again, as long as it's legal). You like to bowhunt muleys where there are none, with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back....fine with me. To each his own.
 
Non of the truley big trophies of any species are "easy" to kill. BUT, There are more trophy whitetails taken every year then any other trophy animal. Oh yeah I forgot, you can pattern and bait a trophy whitetail??? Lets see all you whitetail hunters pattern and/or bait a trophy mule deer at 9,000 feet on public land!!! You can bugle in a big bull and bait a big whitetail but non of that stuff works on a true trophy mule deer. There is no short cuts with trophy class mule deer. Just my opinion...Ever wonder why you don't see more shows hunting mule deer??? Because you have to work your a$$ off for the truley big bucks...
 
I agree with utahheadgear. This thread went way off the track.

Back to my original intent. There seems to be an underlying attitude that certain types of hunting, is not real hunting and that is non sense. Most of those opinions come from people that have never left their little box. Leave your little box and then get back to us.

We can have this pissing contest all day long. I enjoy all hunting as long as its legal and with in what I think is ethical. That being said - types of hunting I enjoy more.

Case in point. I went hog hunting in CA and they primarily used dogs. A lot of fun but, definitely more rewarding for the guy that owned and trained the dogs. Probably won't go on another hunt like that but, certainly won't be running down hunters that use dogs.

Kingfish ? more trophy whitetails are taken every year ? because there are way more whitetails in this country. If the number of mule deer nationwide was equal to the population of whitetails?more mule deer trophies would be killed than whitetails. Oops ? there I go again getting in the pissin contest. :)

Another point I would like to clear up ? not all states ?out east? or ?down south? allow baiting. Outside of a few states it is not a very common practice. I have never done it personally. Where I hunt it would be pretty pointless since there are 100?s of thousands of acres of corn and soybeans.

Anywho. Happy hunting to all that are legal and ethical.
 
Uh,Kingfish-

It might also have something to do with the fact that the mule deer's population and distribution is a tiny fraction of the whitetail's....
 
from an archery standpoint, the tuffest animal to get in the book is a true monster mulie.
 
Right behind a mature northwest blacktail.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

deerline.gif
 
I saw Chuck Adams up at Cabelas one day at a book signing and I asked him about which animal was the toughest one to take with a bow for the Super Slam. I was expecting him to say Stone Sheep or coues deer or something like that and he said without question a trophy Mule Deer. I asked him why and he said there is no advantage to hunting a big muley with a bow. Sometimes they can be hunted in the rut which helps but because of the terrain many of them live this can still be a major challenge. Coues deer can be hunted over water quite successfully, he said he killed 3 of the 4 sheep species on the first day of the hunt and said they get little hunting pressure and are quite easy to shoot with a bow. Elk and whitetail can be called in frequently. Also whitetails can be patterned in treestands easier than a big mule deer.
There are some exceptions to this like farmland Muleys that act more like a whitetail but I think he was mostly referring to a high elevation public land mule deer.

Jason Yates
Basin Archery Shop
http://www.basinarcheryshop.com
5% OFF to all MonsterMuleys.com Members!!!
Discount code = monstermuleys
 
MTQuivers, that is very insightful. I would like to pick Chuck Adams brain for about 20 minutes or so.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-09 AT 10:58AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-09 AT 10:48?AM (MST)

Funny stuff on this thread...justification of certain hunting styles and all.

More funny is the fact I rarely, if ever, see a Non-resident license plate in Montana in the spots I hunt. One would think with such easy hunting on public land that you'd see a few of the hard-core whitetails guys jumping on board the whitetail gravy-train??? Just havent seen that yet, maybe there arent enough bean fields??? No good trees for stands? I dont know.

I watch a few whitetail hunts on TV from the big shot whitetail guys...Jackie Bushman, Michael Waddel, Bill Jordan...they hunt Montana. Never leave the private property of the Milk river and seem to really enjoy whacking 2-3 year old 120-130 P&Y whitetails...impressive to say the least.

I need to find some private land, a tree stand, a bait pile, a toby keith CD, a confederate flag, and pick me up a southern drawwwl.

Maybe then I'd appreciate a good whitetail hunt when I see one...

Just sayin'.
 
+1 Buzz!!!!They won't hunt public land because they can't make 30 shows a year for big money!!! These guys don't hunt they are absolutley the worst example of hunting for us hunters and they get all the exposure because of TV. The only guys I have any respect for that are on tv on a regular basis is Primos and Jim Shocky. The rest of them are pretenders and frauds.Like I have said many times if you want to sit in a tree over bait and shoot patterned whitetails go right ahead but don't classify it as hunting...It's just harvesting!!!
 
Almost forgot...I would need a lot more...what was I thinking?

Rattlin' sack, scent-lok charcoal activated suit, 7-8 brands of deer pi$$, a walkers game ear, 10-15 various calls, cough-silencer, an atv, safety harness, trail cams...

Did I forget anything else I might need to outsmart those unhuntable southern/eastern whitetail?
 
Yes, you forgot to add little less condescending attitude towards your fellow hunters. I have hunted whitetails in the East and the West using every technique under the sun. While it is not impossible to kill a big whitey using spot and stalk in the East, it is 10X's easier to do it in the West. If you can't admit that then you are delusional.

30-30
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-09 AT 01:41PM (MST)[p]30-30,

Then you wont mind if I ask for a few pics of the 10x easier whitetail you've killed in the West? You can pm them to me if you're bashful. Like to see them, seriously.

Also, which of those items I listed arent used and marketed directly for the southern/eastern whitetail hunters?

Because quite frankly, if a hunter uses any of that stuff...they're obviously gay.
 
Using a safety harness makes you gay?

Wow - I did not realize there are so many homosexual deer hunters out there. Thanks for the warning...
 
Maybe not a safety harness or a tree stand...but the rest for sure.

For the record if you use any of that other stuff, I wont judge you for putting from the rough...
 
hey buzz reading your posts on here reminds me of a saying an old guy told me one time,:he who knows not and knows not that he knows not IS STUPID:thats how i feel about you talking about something you have not a clue.from someone that does!
 
hedhunter,

I've already admitted to barely knowing anything about whitetails or their habits...what more do you want me to say?

I've just been lucky...year after year after year.

Been running the same luck on elk, mule deer, and pronghorn too.
 
all i am saying is when in rome do as the romans do.chances are where i live spot and stalk does not work on wt.all you will do is push them to some one that is sitting in a tree stand.just the facts here in pa.if i were hunting with you in your state i would take any advice to heart.and you would be all the wiser to do the same here. i guess you have to have an open mind.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-09 AT 06:26PM (MST)[p]hedhunter,

Read the posts...show me in ONE place where I said hunting whitetails by spot and stalk in the east or south or north or west was always the best method.I'll save you the time, you wont find it.

What I did say is that its not impossible to shoot whitetail from the ground...spot and stalk, still hunting, etc. I stand by that, as I know there isnt a state where those methods have not worked.

I find it entertaining when people run their mouths about impossiblities when they likely havent ever tried any method but THEIR method.

The difference is I know other methods work and wont be telling people they're impossible.

I've a friend who was told hunting unlimited sheep in Montana with a bow was impossible....good thing he didnt listen to those old guys that know they know...
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-09 AT 02:35AM (MST)[p]Uncle,uncle - I give too! I guess it is getting a little too silly for me. Also, according to BUZZH's logic, I am queerer than a $3 bill and Spot and Stalk hunting for Western and Eastern whities is exactly the same. It's uncanny...same terrain, same visibility, same size of property, same public hunting pressure...just same everything I guess.

Peace and good luck,
30-30
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-09 AT 04:20AM (MST)[p]+1 Hedhunter and Thirtythirty.

To answer some of Buzz' questions, the reason all those crappy products are marketed to whitetail hunters is because whitetail hunters are by far the largest single group of hunters in North America which equals $$$$$$--probably at least 10 times (without wasing my time to prove this point; someone else can look up the stats) as many hunters as any other group of hunters for a single species. Also, I would say there is a group of whitetails hunters that are desperate (due to lack of quality public hunting--no BLM or National Forests) and will try anything to be more successful.

Whitetail hunters aren't the only one's using those products. You will find some posts on this forum currently where people are trying to use those products on muleys and elk. In addition, most of those products are marketed toward bowhunters that are sitting on my proverbial 40-50 acres of forest that are trying to attract whitetails to within 40 yards of a broadhead from the neighboring propety. While I don't use most of those products, I have the feeling Buzz would be heading to the local hardware store for some of these products if he put down his optics and high powered rifle, stepped off the Western National Forests onto a 40-50 acre private Eastern woodlot. If he were quaranteened to 40-50 acres of pine forest in one of his photos, he wouldn't kill anything but his time.

Also, the reason Buzz isn't seeing nonresidents compete with him in his whitetail area is because whitetails are viewed by most Western hunters as an opportunistic target, meaning most don't actively hunt for whitetails but if they have a tag in their pocket they will shoot a whitey if they cross paths. Most Western hunters I know think whiteys are a nuisance animal that shouldn't be in muley country, not worthy of a sporting hunt, and wish they could be shot on site and eliminated. If Buzz is completely honest, I would wager he shot a lot of those whiteys while hunting for other species like elk (he sort of alluded to it above)? I personally don't know any Eastern/Southern guys that have went west of Kansas to shoot a whitetail. When these guys go West, they are going for elk, muleys or pronghorns since they can shoot whitetails at home. Therefore, these guys won't be competing with Buzz. If he wants some competition, I am more than welcomed to help him out, lol.

Anyone who is accustomed to spot and stalk Western hunting can kill a whitetail in the West without even knowing anything about the species. Buzz has admitted he knows nothing about the species but seems to be successful year after year. The same glass and stalk tactics that apply to other Western species will work equally as well in the West on whitetails. However, you better have access to a nice private farm and a few horseshoes in your pocket to consistently kill nice whitetials in the East because it is an entirely different ballgame.

This post is gettig completely ridiculous. Sometimes a guy (Buzz) just needs to say Uncle and admit he is speaking on a subject (Eastern whitetial hunting) that he knows nothing about. There is no shame in it because we are all wrong sometime. This is my last post on this subject.
 
Some on this thread remind me of the old adage:

"Better to keep your mouth shut and have others suspect you a fool that open your mouth and remove all doubt."

(If you think I am talking about you,then,yes,I am.)
 
If you have five dollars and BuzzH has five dollars, BuzzH has more money than you.

There is no 'ctrl' button on BuzzH's computer. BuzzH is always in control.

Apple pays BuzzH 99 cents every time he listens to a song.

BuzzH can sneeze with his eyes open.

BuzzH can eat just one Lay's potato chip.

BuzzH is suing Myspace for taking the name of what he calls everything around you.

BuzzH destroyed the periodic table, because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

BuzzH can kill two stones with one bird.
 
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for BuzzH.

BuzzH doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.

There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures BuzzH has allowed to live.

Outer space exists because it's afraid to be on the same planet with BuzzH.

BuzzH does not sleep. He waits.

BuzzH is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for his left and right legs.

BuzzH is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

BuzzH counted to infinity - twice.

There is no chin behind BuzzH's? beard. There is only another fist.

When BuzzH does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down.

BuzzH is so fast, he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head.

BuzzH's hand is the only hand that can beat a Royal Flush.

BuzzH can lead a horse to water AND make it drink.

BuzzH doesn't wear a watch, HE decides what time it is.

BuzzH can slam a revolving door.

BuzzH does not get frostbite. BuzzH bites frost


Contrary to popular belief, America is not a democracy, it is a BuzzHatorship.
 
Wow Buzz....Wow. I have seen a few sarcastic know it alls on here but you may take the cake. Unbelievable...Maybe you should post just one more sarcastic comment about your "limited success" "year after year, after year!" Your horn has officially been tooted. Maybe this is actually "The" Buzz Lightyear. "To infinity and beyond!!!!"

Jason Yates
Basin Archery Shop
http://www.basinarcheryshop.com
5% OFF to all MonsterMuleys.com Members!!!
Discount code = monstermuleys
 
Sorry Guys,
I have to agree with Buzz H. I live in Montana but have lived in other parts of the U.S. mainly Georgia, Tennessee and Western Pennsylvania. In all the years I hunted in those eastern states I never had a problem filling my deer tag including a nice 21" inch wide 5x5. I slow walk still hunted them moving slow about 40 yards at a time and would search the timber deep with my binos until I caught that little flicker of movement then made my move to shoot or assessed the animal. The eastern guys I hunted with thought I was nuts but I was never raised to sit in a stand. They couldn't argue the fact that I was doing it in their own backyards where it was supposed to be impossible. I will say that hunting a stand is a better way of getting your whitetail in those places but I just didn't want to. My friends were happy for me nonetheless.

In Montana if your gonna hunt Elk you gotta be moving and looking you can't sit back in a stand and expect much success. I just think we might be a little more use to hunting on the ground moving because most guys with a deer tag are really out looking for Elk and shoot a deer in the course of Elk hunting at some point during the season.

As a consequence of moving reasonably slow and searching the bushes and timber you'll find a host of animals at damn close range. I'm not talking eastern Montana I'm talking western state. Its a thick bushy mess in many of the best whitetail locations and most of the deer I have taken in western Montana are 75 yards and under. My two cents.......
 

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