yes, bull to cow ratios on Utah's premier units are crazy high, and most guys don't want to hear this, but that is part of the reason quality and future potential on these units is declining. Herd productivity is in jeopardy with a high bull to cow ratio and an overall aging elk herd. There is strong data on the Beaver unit (premier unit like San Juan) showing this.I ran across San Juan elk hunting videos on YouTube. Are there really that many bulls in that unit?
Where could I read up on that productivity analyst. Thanks.yes, bull to cow ratios on Utah's premier units are crazy high, and most guys don't want to hear this, but that is part of the reason quality and future potential on these units is declining. Herd productivity is in jeopardy with a high bull to cow ratio and an overall aging elk herd. There is strong data on the Beaver unit (premier unit like San Juan) showing this.
Watch this video starting at around 5:22:50 and listen to Mike Wardle (DWR biologist over the Pahvant and Beaver units) talk about the Beaver unit.Where could I read up on that productivity analyst. Thanks.
So the rich guys buying the tags, the G&F and hunters that want trophy units are backed by the antis? Just wanna make sure I have this conspiracy theory correct.Oh there are ABSOLUTELY folks that don’t want to hear about how not hunting is hurting the herd. They want to think tag cuts and keeping certain folks rich is the answer.
They are called anti-hunters, and we have a crap ton of them in this very forum.
But I digress…
So every unit should be OTC year round for bucks and bulls? At some point, someone took hunting opportunities away to get to having the systems we have now which have allowed for healthy populations of everything we currently hunt.There is no conspiracy here. If someone is advocating for taking hunting opportunities from others, they are an anti.
The biologist that flew the Beaver unit recently counted 84 bulls to 100 cows and that was based on only bulls that could be seen. He acknowledged that a lot of bulls hide well in that unit in the winter and aren’t seen during flights, so he said the bull to cow ratio is probably even closer to 1:1 on the Beaver.Here’s a doe to buck ratio math I guess? That I found
How do you calculate buck to doe ratio?
1) 56 pictures of bucks with 12 being unique. | 12 ÷ 56 =.2142
2) 200 pictures of adult does without counting fawns | .2142 x 200 = 42
3) So 12 bucks for every 42 does. Your exact ratio would be 12:42. So your buck to doe ratio would be roughly 1 to 4.
What do you think the Cow to Bull ratio is in the premium units?
Well as I said best response I ever heard.ha ha - not a biologist here (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once ). I am just regurgitating what I have heard the actual biologist over the Beaver unit share in multiple meetings and venues and it makes a lot of sense in my mind.
Cull programs are tricky, but in essence that is one of the things that Spike bull hunting is trying to achieve in the Utah plan - Kill some excess bulls on these units while still maintaining age objectives. Problem is on some of these units, the success rate for spike bulls isn't high enough to really move the needle, so we are killing cows to keep overall populations in check ??
Don't let Bess read this ??yes, bull to cow ratios on Utah's premier units are crazy high, and most guys don't want to hear this, but that is part of the reason quality and future potential on these units is declining. Herd productivity is in jeopardy with a high bull to cow ratio and an overall aging elk herd. There is strong data on the Beaver unit (premier unit like San Juan) showing this.
I wish other dudes on this site caught on as quick as you do and were as agreeable as you areAre you sure your not a Biologist? that sounds like a good plan too! I was wondering why there’s a mid season hunt this year?
5pt hunts are tricky. The saying that a 5pt will never be a 6pt is entirely incorrect. Rough winters and droughts can cause mature 6 pts to drop to 5 those years. Most of the kill on 5 pt or less hunts are young bulls that will likely be 6 points at some point in their career and carry 6 point genetics. The other thing that’s happened with 5 point hunts on top end units is guys target big 6 pts after they’ve broken a tine off which is fairly common later in the rut.Well as I said best response I ever heard.
I still say cull the 5x5’s because they will never be a 6x6 and the inferior horned elk with a limit on the harvest of course. What would it hurt to try it for a few years if the spike idea isn’t working. Thinning the cows will just cause tremendous fighting of the bulls which will cause broken antlers which is the big draw for these units plus bulls getting killed by one another.
Just an idea it can’t hurt anything
There are a lot of genetic 5 points that never get 6......ever.5pt hunts are tricky. The saying that a 5pt will never be a 6pt is entirely incorrect. Rough winters and droughts can cause mature 6 pts to drop to 5 those years. Most of the kill on 5 pt or less hunts are young bulls that will likely be 6 points at some point in their career and carry 6 point genetics. The other thing that’s happened with 5 point hunts on top end units is guys target big 6 pts after they’ve broken a tine off which is fairly common later in the rut.