Sheep points in Montana
- Thread starter martinc
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sticksender
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They started giving points in 2001.
Odds are slim but costs are reasonable. And with the quality they have, applying is a must I think. I'd love to get a bigger ram than the one I got.
I apply for the second best units after the Breaks, to increase my odds. I just don't like the squaring, people who are just starting have 1 chance, people after 12 years have 145. I think it's unfair to the new generation. I think 1 to 12 would be more fair, but I don't make the rules...
I apply for the second best units after the Breaks, to increase my odds. I just don't like the squaring, people who are just starting have 1 chance, people after 12 years have 145. I think it's unfair to the new generation. I think 1 to 12 would be more fair, but I don't make the rules...
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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Yup 12 pts is max in Montana---ask about any of us!
Hey Trammer how many sheep tag's ya drawn in Nv. with their squared points benefit?
Me--I have the 'Double Digit Points Curse' for Nv. sheep....
No Rocky Ram for non-ressy's again this year --nor a Mnt. Goat tag for non-ressy's.....Nv.
I am dumping the Mother Load $$ for Mont. for sure!
Robb
Hey Trammer how many sheep tag's ya drawn in Nv. with their squared points benefit?
Me--I have the 'Double Digit Points Curse' for Nv. sheep....
No Rocky Ram for non-ressy's again this year --nor a Mnt. Goat tag for non-ressy's.....Nv.
I am dumping the Mother Load $$ for Mont. for sure!
Robb
With really high demand stuf, like sheep, you just have to hope to get lucky. It isn't the points system in WY that makes a tag some day likely, it is the high number of tags (for sheep) and generous nonresident quota. When demand exceeds supply in numbers much larger than a hunter's life, hunters are going to die before drawing tags no matter what draw system is in place. But you have to try....
Trammer
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As I reed Montanas bonus point program, it sounds to me like deer and elk points are being squared but not the good stuff. I understand that with my 12 sheep points I will be in the draw 12 times not 145.
Squared is a happy medium between Utahs system where half the tags go to max points only and Montanas where past years points put your name in the hat another time. I drew Utah, Wyoming and Nevada with Max points. My daughter drew Nevada with 1 less than max under their squared system and she will draw a Cali in Nevada too. It wont be long and my kid will draw a Utah Rocky as well. She will be a double half curl..is there such a thing?
I feel sorry for kids just entering Utahs system. Soon Max will be 25, then 30 then 35.Montanas even seems more fair than Utahs: where half the tags are siphoned off the top and another 30% go to nonresidents and auction high rollers.Kids entering Utahs system will likely be senior citizens before they draw their sheep tags.
Squared is a happy medium between Utahs system where half the tags go to max points only and Montanas where past years points put your name in the hat another time. I drew Utah, Wyoming and Nevada with Max points. My daughter drew Nevada with 1 less than max under their squared system and she will draw a Cali in Nevada too. It wont be long and my kid will draw a Utah Rocky as well. She will be a double half curl..is there such a thing?
I feel sorry for kids just entering Utahs system. Soon Max will be 25, then 30 then 35.Montanas even seems more fair than Utahs: where half the tags are siphoned off the top and another 30% go to nonresidents and auction high rollers.Kids entering Utahs system will likely be senior citizens before they draw their sheep tags.
HornedToad
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I believe that Sheep points are squared like everything else in Montana. The squaring system only barely tilts the odds in favor of those with more points. For those with 8 points, the odds are about the same. For 9 to 12 points, the odds improve, but you still have to get lucky. For example, for Unit 680 (based on the 2012 draw) an applicant with maximum points saw an improvement in draw percentage from 0.35% to 0.52%... still less than 1%. For those with 7 or fewer points, the odds get worse, but it still is a matter of winning the lottery.
HT
HT
In 2012, 3235 nonresidents applied for 680-00. Two nonresidents drew. Draw odds are 1:1600 ish regardless of points, vary from like 1:10000 to 1:800 or so depending on your point status. Figure 50 or so years to draw and you see only a lucky few do. You might do as well plying powerball with the application fees and buy the governers tag if you win... OK maybe not, but...
sticksender
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Point squaring systems merely give a false sense of hope. Still have the same number of guys in the drawing for the same number of tags. Worst part of point squaring is that as more years pass, adding to the size of the max point pools, the more crushing the effect on draw odds for new entrants. Consider the draw odds for new guys with only a few points, once the max point pool surpasses say about 40 points. Of course by then, the tags may all be auctioned off anyway...lol
Of course it will always be a long shot.
If I was to design a point system today, I would give preference points where there is enough tags to prevent significant point creep, like mule deer in Colorado for example, or antelope and elk in Wyoming. When there is not enough tags, like Arizona elk, Utah everything, sheep and goat everywhere, I would give bonus points but I would top the bonus points at 10. That means that after 10 years of applying you're in the top pool, no matter if it's been 10 or 30 years. With the system in place, you know that many young hunters will never be able to draw in the next 50 years, just because they were born 10 or 20 years too late. Doesn't make sense. I know guys at 20 points know they have a great tag coming so you can't change the system now, but I'm talking starting from scratch.
I would give a modest number of auction/raffle tags like most states do to raise money, but nowhere near like Utah.
If you apply as a group, the group would get the # of points of the hunter with the less points, so Aunt Wilma can't help you get a tag.
Youth tags would be doe or cow tags. Youth sheep tags like New Mexico are just crazy, the kids should start with plentiful animals and work their way up.
There would be no outfitter tags, the hunter would decide to hire an outfitter after he draws.
Landowner tags ? I would give landowners tags, fully transferable, to use on private land only. But I don't like tags that are used on public land. If you don't want land with wildlife, then sell it, I'll be happy to buy 10 000 acres.
If I was to design a point system today, I would give preference points where there is enough tags to prevent significant point creep, like mule deer in Colorado for example, or antelope and elk in Wyoming. When there is not enough tags, like Arizona elk, Utah everything, sheep and goat everywhere, I would give bonus points but I would top the bonus points at 10. That means that after 10 years of applying you're in the top pool, no matter if it's been 10 or 30 years. With the system in place, you know that many young hunters will never be able to draw in the next 50 years, just because they were born 10 or 20 years too late. Doesn't make sense. I know guys at 20 points know they have a great tag coming so you can't change the system now, but I'm talking starting from scratch.
I would give a modest number of auction/raffle tags like most states do to raise money, but nowhere near like Utah.
If you apply as a group, the group would get the # of points of the hunter with the less points, so Aunt Wilma can't help you get a tag.
Youth tags would be doe or cow tags. Youth sheep tags like New Mexico are just crazy, the kids should start with plentiful animals and work their way up.
There would be no outfitter tags, the hunter would decide to hire an outfitter after he draws.
Landowner tags ? I would give landowners tags, fully transferable, to use on private land only. But I don't like tags that are used on public land. If you don't want land with wildlife, then sell it, I'll be happy to buy 10 000 acres.
