Should Governor Type Tags Exist? (Poll)

Should these Governor type tags even exist?

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What say you all? Should these Governor type tags even exist? The ones that are auctioned? Or for that matter, even the ones that can be drawn? With hunts being a year long, or even 4 months?
I believe most western states have them.

Feel free to expand on your position. No fighting about it though!
 
Draw or raffle tags only (no more Auction or Governor tags) and those hunts should not be a year long. I personally think these hunts should be slotted in already existing seasons/units or maybe have a minor advantage of a week or so, but nothing crazy.

The auction and governor tags bring too much of what is wrong with hunting currently: huge posses on every ridge, combat hunting/confrontations from big time outfitters with "regular joe" hunters, "trigger pullers" vs hunters, inches vs experience, and on and on.
 
I'd love to see all of them to be draw tags with one entry per person and the season is August 1 - January 31. or whatever 4-5 month span fits the species best. I am referring to a state that only has 1 or 2 tags for each species as well. Not like Utah has it where hundreds of tags are offered.

When it comes to what Arizona is doing, I bet a bunch of people would pay to apply if you offered an additional bonus point after you've appled for the draw type governor tags for 3-5 years consecutively. Kind of like a loyalty point in Arizona. If you miss a year that extra point drops off. Would keep people paying in and keep funds rolling in. Another point never hurts and if you want to keep that point you'd have to keep paying in each year. Won't happen but it might help drive more revenue.
 
I dunno how impactful the "year long" season is for the handful of tags that go out. Coyote hunters hunt year round bothering big game too. However, wintering grounds should be excluded- so depending on species and location they outta consider that. If you get one of the coveted tags, being able to hunt the week or two before open season would be pretty cool. Going to all raffle would be much more palatable than the auctions for sure.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Draw or raffle tags only (no more Auction or Governor tags) and those hunts should not be a year long. I personally think these hunts should be slotted in already existing seasons/units or maybe have a minor advantage of a week or so, but nothing crazy.

The auction and governor tags bring too much of what is wrong with hunting currently: huge posses on every ridge, combat hunting/confrontations from big time outfitters with "regular joe" hunters, "trigger pullers" vs hunters, inches vs experience, and on and on.
Click to expand...
Pretty much my feelings on this topic
 
What does it really hurt? A couple deer/elk/sheep? Other than feelings?

Expo? Yes, we all have a chance.

Conservation tags are out of control IMHO, you would think after the millions and millions brought in we would be up to our azz in fur and feathers.

The real robbery is CWMU tags.
 
My main concerns with the high-dollar auction tags are 1) it has spawned an industry of people searching for money bucks, money bulls, and money rams, and 2) it creates a situation where the Wildlife Board and the DWR has to manage units to produce high-dollar trophies (they can’t do anything that would hurt revenue). I don’t have a problem with Outfitters and Guides doing what they do, but I think the situation in Utah has got out of control trying to provide glory hunts for people that have huge sums of money.
 
Raffle tags only-- limit of one per person- Price could be 25 or maybe 50 bucks but not much more I don't think. It's only fair that everybody should be able to afford a chance to draw , not just rich guys.
Should be kept during the established seasons for all weapons.

With some serious thought there should be other ways/ more than one/ to make up for some of the lost generations of funds.
 
Hunting is becoming a rich man’s sport where the ordinary lower to middle class guy has less and less chance each year at a tag while the wealthy buy more and more tags, either at auction or landowner. If the wildlife truly belongs to the people, let the people have equal chance at them not just those with deep pockets. IMHO
 
treedagain said:
What does it really hurt? A couple deer/elk/sheep? Other than feelings?

Expo? Yes, we all have a chance.

Conservation tags are out of control IMHO, you would think after the millions and millions brought in we would be up to our azz in fur and feathers.

The real robbery is CWMU tags.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for all CWMUs but I know the CWMU I used to guide on practically saved the deer herds and allowed the numbers to thrive once again.

The locals and residents used to party hunt the area and would push every thicket and blast and wound deer as they ran out. Then they'd go to the next thicket where the deer just ran to and continue to do that for weeks on end. Tons of deer were wounded and tons of deer were killed. It took a ton on the deer herd.

I overheard a guy at church one Sunday, when I was guiding there, complaining about how the CWMU has screwed everythign up and had ruined the hunting. The guy didn't know I was guiding on the CWMU so I played dumb and asked him what had been ruined. The only thing that was ruined was his access. The trophy quality and deer numbers were much much better than it was before the CWMU in the area started. The landowners were much happier because they didn't have people begging for access and trashing their land and they knew who was coming in and out of their stuff. Not only that, but we were an extra set of eyes for the landowner and caught lots of people sneaking on in areas the ranchers never knew about because they weren't out hunting it all the time like we were.

I am sure come CWMUs aren't the best and the lost access sucks for some, but most people never could access that land anyway and it absolutely allowed the deer numbers to thrive which in turn helped the public because there was a ton of public land around as well. There were more deer on the public because the private allowed more deer to escape and survive when pressure got too crazy.

They have become extremely expensive to hunt on, but I have seen first hand where CWMUs have made a positive impact. Again, that might not be the same for all of them, but it was the case where I was at.
 
maddog58 said:
Don’t believe they should be able to hunt before the regular season. Two special tags got to hunt my desert sheep tag unit before the season started last year and both took great rams. Not really fair to the other hunters.
Click to expand...
I wanted to shoot your ram, but didn’t get a tag. Not really fair to me.
 
I share a lot of the same sentiments as others but also see the value of auctioning some things off. The sportsman’s draw got 43k applications last year for 10 tags across species. That’s 430k raised, the gov elk tag went for 145k alone last year and I believe the deer even more. Limit the seasons and turn these funds into land purchases for public access and habitat instead of salaries and they can be a big tool for Utah.
 
These auction tags raise a lot of $$$. As long as it really benefits wildlife, I’m okay with it. And as far as those who have the resources, good for them. Example a guy like Jimmy John, built an amazing business and made millions. I’m glad he’s a fellow outdoorsmen and not an anti!!
 
Last edited:
Jdan9 said:
These auction tags raise a lot of $$$. As long as it really benefits wildlife, I’m okay with it. And as far as those who have the resources, good for them. Example a guy like Jimmy John, built an amazing business and made millions. I’m glad he’s a fellow outdoorsmen and not an anti!!
Click to expand...
These are good points, but there will always be great opportunities for successful people to hunt and contribute to wildlife conservation with or without these auction tags. They don’t need to go anti if they stop the auctions.
 
Does anyone have numbers which show how much the raffle tags make compared to the auction tags? The auction tags have a dollar amount but how much does the raffle tag generate?
 
draw only without money giving the advantage. No to auctioning, because while I think it’s great to see the revenue, I also see it as a slippery slope toward hunting becoming a rich only endeavor
 
On this topic I do not like Commissioner tags(wyoming). Money doesn't go back to wildlife
 
I'm between draw only, or none at all. I voted none. My only reasoning is that a guy who waits 20 years for an elk tag finally gets to the front of the line and gets it. I think he should have every chance, or as much of a chance as anyone else, to kill the biggest bull in unit "X". Not be scouting the unit and watch a wealthy shooter shoot the bull in velvet in August. The resources are becoming less available, making them more valuable.
 
I say no gov tags. Not that I’m against them but they just give hunting in general a black eye. Not much sport for n them when you have an army of guides and dam sure ain’t hunting for the meat.

I think game department should just have special draw hunts for each states residents only for the top areas. Meaning 1 or 2 tags in a rut with a liberal hunt area. Keep it where a young kid can dream about killing a monster buck or bull and not have to be rich to have the experience
 
Founder said:
What say you all? Should these Governor type tags even exist? The ones that are auctioned? Or for that matter, even the ones that can be drawn? With hunts being a year long, or even 4 months?
I believe most western states have them.

Feel free to expand on your position. No fighting about it though!
Click to expand...
I am torn on this...but I voted for Draw only, but I do know that the funds from the Auctions pay for additional Wildlife Biologist ~ New Mexico Big Horn Sheep!

Additionally and maybe for another question / vote., even thought I am a land owner in New Mexico...I believe changes need to be made for the ePlus where more tags go to NM residents.
 
Founder said:
What say you all? Should these Governor type tags even exist? The ones that are auctioned? Or for that matter, even the ones that can be drawn? With hunts being a year long, or even 4 months?
I believe most western states have them.

Feel free to expand on your position. No fighting about it though!
Click to expand...
The money helps the resource. Worth taking a few tags out of the draw to amp up the money provided for the species. That's true whether it is for auction or raffle.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Draw or raffle tags only (no more Auction or Governor tags) and those hunts should not be a year long. I personally think these hunts should be slotted in already existing seasons/units or maybe have a minor advantage of a week or so, but nothing crazy.

The auction and governor tags bring too much of what is wrong with hunting currently: huge posses on every ridge, combat hunting/confrontations from big time outfitters with "regular joe" hunters, "trigger pullers" vs hunters, inches vs experience, and on and on.
Click to expand...
The commercialization of wildlife will be the downfall of hunting as we know it.
 
GilaJeff said:
The commercialization of wildlife will be the downfall of hunting as we know it.
Click to expand...
This thought just hit me.

The commercialization of wildlife will be the only thing that saves hunting as we know it. We all know the bureaucrat system will destroy hunting as we know it. And all you need to do is take a look as who and what the bureaucrats have done and are continuing to do.

Consider what they are doing and have done for the last 40 years.

More coyotes.
More cougars.
More wolves.
More bears.
More human conflict.
More highway fatality.
More cheatgrass.
Less bitter brush.
Less mule deer.
Less access.
Less hunting opportunity.
Growing private land big game populations.
Growing agriculture income dependency on big game hunters.

These are just the obvious high points, I haven’t even begun to discuss all of the other reasons in the Bobcat’s list of 50 why the private sector will save hunting and why the public sector, in the last 40 years, hasn’t and isn’t going to.

Start planning for the future if you plan on big game hunting.
 
2lumpy said:
This thought just hit me.

The commercialization of wildlife will be the only thing that saves hunting as we know it. We all know the bureaucrat system will destroy hunting as we know it. And all you need to do is take a look as who and what the bureaucrats have done and are continuing to do.

Consider what they are doing and have done for the last 40 years.

More coyotes.
More cougars.
More wolves.
More bears.
More human conflict.
More highway fatality.
More cheatgrass.
Less bitter brush.
Less mule deer.
Less access.
Less hunting opportunity.
Growing private land big game populations.
Growing agriculture income dependency on big game hunters.

These are just the obvious high points, I haven’t even begun to discuss all of the other reasons in the Bobcat’s list of 50 why the private sector will save hunting and why the public sector, in the last 40 years, hasn’t and isn’t going to.

Start planning for the future if you plan on big game hunting.
Click to expand...
The closer we get to a European model of game management, the fewer the people who can afford to hunt, the less folks we recruit into our ranks, the less relevant the game/hunting becomes to the actual owners of the wildlife (the citizens of the state), and the fewer people who care about laws/policy governing game management and hunting.
 
GilaJeff said:
The closer we get to a European model of game management, the fewer the people who can afford to hunt, the less folks we recruit into our ranks, the less relevant the game/hunting becomes to the actual owners of the wildlife (the citizens of the state), and the fewer people who care about laws/policy governing game management and hunting.
Click to expand...
Are there more or less people hunting private property in Africa now than there were in 1970?

Are there more or less middle income people hunting private property in Africa now than there were in 1970?

Have private property owner in Africa made more money off wildlife since 1970? Has that drive the inflation adjusted cost to hunt Africa less than it cost in 1970?

Has private land hunting in Africa put more wildlife on that continent or less?

Have African people and African governments and American sport hunters benefited from private land hunting since 1970?

Does anyone want bet against private land hunting lasting longer in Africa than public land hunting?

Try not to be so righteous about private land hunting, that we put in peril having anything to hunt……on either private or public land. Does that make sense?

Who will fight harder to preserve sport hunting, at crunch time, a private land owned hunting business or a, one weekend per year mule deer hunter? (No offense intended to the one weekend hunt, but there are hundreds of them who are not at all in preserving the lifestyle, just trying to state the truth.)
 
2lumpy said:
Are there more or less people hunting private property in Africa now than there were in 1970?

Are there more or less middle income people hunting private property in Africa now than there were in 1970?

Have private property owner in Africa made more money off wildlife since 1970? Has that drive the inflation adjusted cost to hunt Africa less than it cost in 1970?

Has private land hunting in Africa put more wildlife on that continent or less?

Have African people and African governments and American sport hunters benefited from private land hunting since 1970?

Does anyone want bet against private land hunting lasting longer in Africa than public land hunting?

Try not to be so righteous about private land hunting, that we put in peril having anything to hunt……on either private or public land. Does that make sense?

Who will fight harder to preserve sport hunting, at crunch time, a private land owned hunting business or a, one weekend per year mule deer hunter? (No offense intended to the one weekend hunt, but there are hundreds of them who are not at all in preserving the lifestyle, just trying to state the truth.)
Click to expand...
What does Africa have to do with governor's tags? And since you brought it up, how many people...American's or not, can afford to hunt Africa on a regular basis, if at all? I am talking about limiting unique and coveted tags to only those who can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single tag. If they were raffle tags that would be a completely different conversation. And I am talking about Americans hunting THEIR game on THEIR public land...where a father can take his kid out deer hunting and teach them how to camp, hike, hunt, etc.
 
Hey Lumpy!

Most Sportsmen Only Recognize 1 or 2 Issues!

When They Recognize The Other 48+ Reasons Why It'll Be Too Late!

I Thought Most Hunters Were Smarter Than That?




2lumpy said:
This thought just hit me.

The commercialization of wildlife will be the only thing that saves hunting as we know it. We all know the bureaucrat system will destroy hunting as we know it. And all you need to do is take a look as who and what the bureaucrats have done and are continuing to do.

Consider what they are doing and have done for the last 40 years.

More coyotes.
More cougars.
More wolves.
More bears.
More human conflict.
More highway fatality.
More cheatgrass.
Less bitter brush.
Less mule deer.
Less access.
Less hunting opportunity.
Growing private land big game populations.
Growing agriculture income dependency on big game hunters.

These are just the obvious high points, I haven’t even begun to discuss all of the other reasons in the Bobcat’s list of 50 why the private sector will save hunting and why the public sector, in the last 40 years, hasn’t and isn’t going to.

Start planning for the future if you plan on big game hunting.
Click to expand...
 
2lumpy said:
This thought just hit me.

The commercialization of wildlife will be the only thing that saves hunting as we know it. We all know the bureaucrat system will destroy hunting as we know it. And all you need to do is take a look as who and what the bureaucrats have done and are continuing to do.

Consider what they are doing and have done for the last 40 years.

More coyotes.
More cougars.
More wolves.
More bears.
More human conflict.
More highway fatality.
More cheatgrass.
Less bitter brush.
Less mule deer.
Less access.
Less hunting opportunity.
Growing private land big game populations.
Growing agriculture income dependency on big game hunters.

These are just the obvious high points, I haven’t even begun to discuss all of the other reasons in the Bobcat’s list of 50 why the private sector will save hunting and why the public sector, in the last 40 years, hasn’t and isn’t going to.

Start planning for the future if you plan on big game hunting.
Click to expand...
SFW is prime example of commercialized hunting and it hasn't got any better in Utah. In Fact with them pulling the strings it has gotten worse.JMO
 
21% of Utah is private lands. If the salvation of mule deer is dependent on private lands they will shortly be on the endangered species list.
Pray tell what landowner is is making their living on wildlife.
 
GilaJeff said:
What does Africa have to do with governor's tags? And since you brought it up, how many people...American's or not, can afford to hunt Africa on a regular basis, if at all? I am talking about limiting unique and coveted tags to only those who can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single tag. If they were raffle tags that would be a completely different conversation. And I am talking about Americans hunting THEIR game on THEIR public land...where a father can take his kid out deer hunting and teach them how to camp, hike, hunt, etc.
Click to expand...

Nothing.

I was responding to your comment about a European model. I asked. In turn, as about the African model. Both Europe and Africa ran out of public land hunting, in many countries……. 40 years ago, so they turned to private land hunting. For those that want to hunt, it’s the best they could do, and while it may be different than how we prefer to hunt, they had no other choice. I’m saying we are facing the same delema and suggest that those that sport hunting in theie lifestyle, better get prepared to hunt private or not at all.

I’m talking about a father taking his kid out to deer hunt as well. You maybe able to teach him how to camp and hike on public land, but what are you going to do about teaching him to hunt…….. when there are very few if any big game on public land…… specifically mule deer.

Also, can you teach him to hunt mule deer if he only gets a tag ever 6 to 7 years, due to the limited number of mule deer on public land?

So……. Where are the 50,000 sport hunters that are going to rise up and hold the bureaucrats accountable for loosing the mule deer population? I don’t see them, I see maybe a 100, and I see more than a thousand vocally supporting the bureaucrats……. supporting what they have done for 40 years and what they are continuing to do today…….. which is precious little. The bureaucrats own the mule deer decline and very very few sportsmen are doing anything to hold them accountable.

Right now it costs you more to ski, golf, car race, go to yoga or bowl, for a year, than to hunt mule deer…… too damn bad it’s getting expensive too. If you don’t like the cost now, hide and watch what it is going to cost you when you’ve squandered all the public land mule deer.

Better get ready hunters…….. this lifestyle is going to get way more expensive. Like it or not………and I don’t like it. Especially since it is 40 years of pure bullsh!t management that has caused it.
 
elkhunter81 said:
SFW is prime example of commercialized hunting and it hasn't got any better in Utah. In Fact with them pulling the strings it has gotten worse.JMO
Click to expand...
I don’t believe SFW is pulling any strings. The bureaucrats are firmly in control…….. think about it.
middlefork said:
21% of Utah is private lands. If the salvation of mule deer is dependent on private lands they will shortly be on the endangered species list.
Pray tell what landowner is is making their living on wildlife.
Click to expand...
They will be endangered on public lands, that as plane to see as my fat belly.

I know of no landowner making their living on wildlife in Utah but I do know many who are supplementing it greatly. Many many CWMU landowners have bought their properties based largely on the anticipated supplemental income from sport hunting.

And you know darn well I’m right middlefork. My hell……. real estate property listers, use hunting revenue as a primary source of income on private properties, in every State in the Nation. And more and more landowners are applying for CWMU authorization every year.
 
2lumpy said:
I don’t believe SFW is pulling any strings. The bureaucrats are firmly in control…….. think about it.
Click to expand...
Ok I'll bite. Over the last 20+ years what group of bureaucrats have had banquets with wildlife tags to raise money for the wildlife?
What group of bureaucrats have had a hunting show that has been very successful in generating money and again tags to auction off for the betterment of wildlife?
What group of bureaucrats over the last 20+ years has been given more tags to sell for the betterment of wildlife?

CWMU don't give a crap about the public draw tags. They are in it for the tags they can sell for large amounts of money. If you want to kill hunting for 95% of the people then I think privatization of hunting is the way to go. JMO
 

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