Something Im not seeing?

[utahbigbull]

As some of you know, we got our first bow a couple months ago and have been shooting pretty religiously. There is one thing I am not figuring out that I was hoping to get a tip or two on. I have been shooting Easton 340 FMJ's cut to 31" with a 125 grain field tip behind my Bowtech Captain set to 70#.

It has been shooting pretty well but half of the time when entering the foam target block they come to rest as if I was shooting a l/h quartering shot. The fletching to the left and tip to the right (never any other angle) and sometimes they are at an extreme angle and sometimes a mild angle. There are always some stright through but still always some on an angle and always the same angle. They have never went in on an upwards, downwards or r/h angle. I have double checked the paper tune several times at 10 yds. and is perfect. The arrows appear to be flying straight untill they make contact. At the coser 20 to 30 yard shots it is not as appearant but 40 to 60 is much more appearant. They are hitting thier mark, there is no accuracy problem but the damn things keep angling once they hit the foam block.

Any hints or tips what the problem may be? Thanks guys.

 

[bucklover]

If they're flying straight until they hit the target, then angle weird, I would think that maybe you have some different hardened areas in the target and they are just taking the path of least resistance. Just a thought. Are the ones that are going in at an angle always in the same area of the target?

 

[utahbigbull]

I have not noticed it being in one specific area but will pay closer attention. I am not sure if it is anything to worry about because at first I thought it was just the target. It just has me wondering since when they angle, it is ALWAYS to the right wich leaves me questioning weather it is the target material or not. Just hate to have it do the same thing on an animal. Hit it behind the shoulder and come out in front of the hip on a broadside shot.

 

[elkantlers]

try shooting through paper at 3yds. then adjust your rest until you get a bullet hole tear.

 

[MuleyMinor]

I am with Bucklover on this one. Path of least resistance.

 

[NONYAMT]

Take i to a shop and have them help you "paper tune" the bow to make sue it is flying straight after it leaves the bow.

 

[Cahunter805]

Sounds to me you need to paper tune and then walkback tune.

 

[utahbigbull]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-11 AT 08:34PM (MST)[p]Thanks guys. I have been to the shop a couple times and did the papertune at around 10 yards. Every time it is a bullet hole with the three fletching cuts. It has been perfect on paper at close range. Is there such a thing as fine tuning it by paper at longer ranges? Is that what you mean by a "walk back tune" Cahunter?

 

[Topehaw]

Why are you shooting 125 Grains? My calculations put your grain weight at 100's. Just a thought but you seem to me heavy in the front. You could shoot 100's and still be pushing 80 lbs of kenetic energy at impact. If you lightened the load you may even see you arrow spped pick up a couple ft/sec. The FMJ is a BadArse arrow, you set up is good, just don't understand who directed you to the 125's?

 

[ontarget7]

Not knowing your draw length and for what your experiencing I would say you are weak on spine. I understand guys are trying to help but if your foundation is not right ( which is your arrow spine ) a bullet hole will mean nothing at one distance and moving it till you get one is probably not the answer. I can get just about any arrow to shoot a bullet hole at one distance. This doesn't necessarily mean your are in tune. I ran some numbers at a 29" draw with your specs and even with a 100 gr tip you are way weak. Remember spine is measured at a 28" raw shaft so going to 31" makes you way weaker than a 340 spine measurement. Then a 125 gr tip makes you even weaker yet.
You can call me at 435-592-0231 and I would be glad to help you out

 

[wymoose]

Try paper tuning at a shorter distance. By 10 yards you arrow can stabilize itself. I would do what has already been mentioned and paper tune at 2-3 yards, then back up and do it again. You should get bullet holes every time.

Walk back tuning may help as well, but if you get a good paper tune, it should be good for walk back as well.


WYmoose

 

[3blade]

ontarget7 is right. That arrows to weak, but whats your draw length so we can help you out here?



"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."
BF

 

[utahbigbull]

I have my bowtech Captain maxed out at a 30" draw. So if my spine is weak, do I need to downsize tip weight? Thanks guys!!!

 

[3blade]

According to ontarget, which I find to be pretty accurate, you need to go to a 30 shaft length, 300 spine. That arrow should shoot a 100 or 125 gr tip. Anyone using archers advantage? I'm curious as to what it says?



>I have my bowtech Captain maxed
>out at a 30" draw.
>So if my spine is
>weak, do I need to
>downsize tip weight? Thanks guys!!!
>


"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."
BF

 

[Cahunter805]

+1 3blade. Need a .300 spine arrow and cut it as short as you can get away with. Did the archery shop set you up with 340's?

 

[utahbigbull]

Went off the chart for the poundage and draw weight of the Easton box. If my draw is 30" and the shaft length is 30", wouldn't that put the broadhead right on my fingers? Kinda scarry What if I was to drop my poundage a bit like to 65?

Thanks for helping the newby here guys.

 

[3blade]

The end of the arrow should be sitting over the shelf but its all in what you're comfortable with.

at 65lbs you need to make that 300 31" with a 125 gr head. Thats a 540gr arrow, kind a heavy but would get the job done.

If you switched to a Victory VForce V3, 300 spine, 31", 125gr head, blazers, set bow at 65lbs, the arrow would weight 475grs. An Epic N Fused set to same specs as the Victory would come in at 478grs, bow set at 65lbs.


"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."
BF

 

[ontarget7]

You will actually be fine with the 340's you just need them cut to 28" raw shaft with a 100 grain tip. They will be on the slightly weak side but will tune still very well. Paper tune for nock height and then proceed to a walkback tune. Once you are done you should see a huge improvement of your shooting ability. You can always call me if you have any questions.

435-592-0231

 

[sagebucks]

Try numbering your arrows it might be one arrow that is shooting wierd the aluminum on the arrow might be bent that is the easiest thing to do before you try all the other stuff

 

[utahbigbull]

Thanks for the help guys, I am seeing now how with the 31" arrow length the spine is weak for my bow. Screwed in the 100 grain points and they did better but want to get the "propper foundation". I checked and I can trim the shaft length from 31" to 30" and that will put it just past the 1" mark from my rest. I dont think the FMJ's come in a 300 spine am I correct?

What would all the good options be for a 300 spined arrow especailly at an affordable price? I figure that I will be going shopping for some new arrows with a 300 spine and give them a try. Another question, any certain veins you reccomend? Also, helical or straight veins? I presume I would be best off with a fixed blade for elk?

Any reccomendation on a good arrow set ups on top of the good ones allready given would be appreciated

 

[3blade]

fmj's come in a 300. Beman, easton and victory all make 300 spine shafts. Beman ICS Hunters are very reasonably priced and pretty dang tough shafts. You could go 30" with a 100 gr head, blazer vanes at a slight helical-I set mine so I can get as much helical as I can with the vane setting flat on the shaft. That would give you a 430 gr arrow without the rubber on the insert. It would fly with the bow at 70 pounds too. If you turned the bow down to 65lbs you could use the 125 gr head and get an arrow weight of 452. With all that said, even if your set up ended up a little weak I bet you can get it to fly, the 125 gr head with bow set at 70 lbs. Tons of guys are doing that everyday and don't even know it.

Believe it or not, I shoot a 300 spined arrow out of a 60 pound bow. But, I have 200 grs up front which does weaken the spine. I can shoot this arrow without any vanes - bareshaft, and can hit what I am shooting at at 70 yards. Fletched shafts and bareshafts hit together. Once fletched I can shoot any broadhead that weighs 150 grs and hit with my fieldpoint arrows. So I can produce a very good bareshaft, fieldpoint and broadhead group at 70 yards. Its arrow nirvana! lol This is just an example of when you get it together, everything will work.

I used to like cut on contact heads such as phatheads or stingers in the 4 blade variety. A lot of guys use 3 blades such as the montec, razorcap, hellrazers etc. Now a days I shoot single bevel heads because they go through the animal leaving a corkscrew type wound channel or L shaped holes. When they hit bone they split it apart by that corkscrew action allowing the arrow to slide through, if you have enough momentum behind it, arrows under 400 grs suck. This helps to avoid loosing or wounding an animal when things go bad. I guarantee you, if you bowhunt long enough, things will go bad at one time or another.

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."
BF

 

[ontarget7]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-11 AT 05:41AM (MST)[p]>Thanks for the help guys, I
>am seeing now how with
>the 31" arrow length the
>spine is weak for my
>bow. Screwed in the 100
>grain points and they did
>better but want to get
>the "propper foundation". I checked
>and I can trim the
>shaft length from 31" to
>30" and that will put
>it just past the 1"
>mark from my rest. I
>dont think the FMJ's come
>in a 300 spine am
>I correct?
>
>What would all the good options
>be for a 300 spined
>arrow especailly at an affordable
>price? I figure that I
>will be going shopping for
>some new arrows with a
>300 spine and give them
>a try. Another question, any
>certain veins you reccomend? Also,
>helical or straight veins? I
>presume I would be best
>off with a fixed blade
>for elk?
>
>Any reccomendation on a good arrow
>set ups on top of
>the good ones allready given
>would be appreciated

What rest are you using. The reason I ask is draw length is measured from the inside of the grip forward 1 3/4" . So you should be able to go shorter on your shaft than 30".
Like 3blade said there are plenty of 300 spine options out there if you decide to go that route.

 

[utahbigbull]

Thanks a ton 3blade. Ontarget, I'm using a ripcord drop-away.

 

[ontarget7]

With the rip cord and you at a 30" draw it is perfectly safe to have those arrows cut at 28". I have had my arrows 2" short on multiple occasions to get my spine correct with zero issues. This should still put you a solid inch or better past your rest. They will tune very well at that length and will save you some money.

 

[utahbigbull]

Thanks bud. I was eyeballing it by myself last night. I will have my wife mark the resting point on an arrow when I have it at full draw tonight, measure and make sure before I drop the cash and have them cut. I appreciate all the help!