suggestion for IF&G

O

OLDHORNHUNTER

Very Active Member
Messages
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I have suggested to IF&G a change for future contolled hunt draws..My suggestion: for the deer-elk-antelope& bear draws..any eligible hunter can apply for only "ONE" of these species in a calendar year & have the same rules aply for the left over tags that they have implemented now...what are Idaho hunters thoughts on IF&G changing the controlled hunt eligibilty for elk-deer-antelope & bear
 
1000 % opposed to your idea. lets please not " utard " this state . people who put in for tags with little chance of drawing .i.e. any owyhee or bennet hills tag must just accept the fact your odds are slim and live with it.i want maximum opertunity every year for all game species every year. and i won't appologize for my glutony.....my 2 pennies
 
Sounds good to me, they are already
loosing revenue for not selling
non-resident deer tags and they are
not doing anything about that!

Longer waiting periods are a must!

Charge residents more for controlled
hunt tags than a regular tag!

Separate the 10% allocation of
controlled tags for non-residents
away from the whole pool drawing
so they get a true 10%!

There is no shi# about it, some
guys get drawn alot more than
others, getting a tag should not
have to be all luck, luck is involved
when the hunt starts!

Bring it on, I am ready!!!!
 
every person putting in for tags would have way better odds of drawing a tag ..u mention 40-41-42-44-45 perfect examples lets say this year 8000 people put in for unit 40s 195 deer tags..my guess is that probably all 8000 also put in for an elk tag somewhere in the state as well.. not to mention antelope & bear..but if u can only apply for ONE species now they have too choose which one .. reduces the # of applicants per species giving better odds of drawing a tag.. period
 
Something needs happen, I'm now 0 for 13 years and I dont put in for the super popular hunts like most of u will blame for the poor luck. Somehow they need to find a way to make it more fair.
 
Idahoshedhead I agree, I'm O for 12 years and I sure dont put in for any of the 40's for deer or elk. But F&G also is wanting more revenue then they have been getting lately. Points seems to me to be the only anserw. It would both help us with our bad luck and bring in more $$ mostly from non-residents with out giving out any more tags and hurting some of our suffering herds.
 
I am a life long Idaho hunter I don't care for your suggestion.I have put in for 10 years and more even twice the last 3 years for unit 40 for deer and antelope still ZERO on the draw and I will live with it.
I am sure that other States have what you have Suggested why don't you go hunt them.And stop trying to change Idaho.It is getting old reading all about the poor nonresident that dose not draw a tag that he wants.I bet if Idaho did change the Controlled hunt and add the Points you would still ##### about how you did not draw a tag.
By the way I did draw UNIT 40 FOR ELK THE FIRST TIME EVER that I put in.

The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.
 
Leave it alone. In the units you talk of, my dad, daughter and I have all draw deer and elk once each in about 10 years. I can live with that knowing the odds. I always have a back-up plan, but still am excited for the results.
In your plan, I do not see odds getting any better for deer and elk. Still will be a tough draw.
 
You all are almost ready to draw a tag. It took me 27 years of putting in faithfully every year to finally draw a bull elk tag.
 
I agree with oldhornhunter and hntbigbulls and have had the same idea myself, but why not take it a step further by having all species/hunts be eligible in the first draw, that is including trophy species. While this would no doubt decrease your odds of drawing multiple quality or high quality tags for different species in a single year, I would think it would significantly enhance your odds of drawing at least one good to excellent tag each year. You could then build your year around making the most of that tag, and hunt the general hunts or other states to round out the rest of the season. There are just too many of us now to have it all. I'd be willing to pay more too for applying in that first draw if it were re-structured that way.
 
Get rid of all trophy draw hunts! If you want a big buck or bull go earn it not draw it. We all buy the same game license this is not Las Vegas or Reno this is hunting.Everyone should have the same oppurtunity. Just my 2 cents.
 
Seems like we could have the best of both worlds. Implement a point system, but still maintain all of the general units as units that will always be bought over the counter. Only allow an individual to apply/build points for one species at a time. As residents we will still be able to hunt deer/elk every year in the same units we always have and we'd be able to accumulate points so we know we'll get to have that dream tag someday. This would also generate more revenue because F&G would have more NR applying/buying licenses without effecting the odds negatively since you can only apply for one species.

The reason why the point system got shot down the last go around was because we made it clear we wanted more opportunity than trophy experience. I agree. I want to hunt deer and elk every single year in my home state for the rest of my life. At the same time, my dream is to hunt sheep in my home state as well. Every year I put in for sheep and buy the sportsman package. Every
year I have the same crappy odds as last year even though I've been doing this for my entire hunting life. This option seems like we have the best of both worlds without compromising too much. This strategy would work if you wanted to hunt deer in 45, elk in 40, or one of the OIL tags. Eventually you would be guaranteed that tag whereas now we have to be the needle in the haystack that gets found.

Brady
 
How bout the first one is free, the next two cost you. Maybe the price of the tag.

Just a thought.
 
1st off swampdonkey I have lived & hunted in Idaho all my life !! so dont automatically assume everyone that doesnt like Idahos shitty draw system is from out of state..I have drawn 40 deer 31 bull 39 & 51 for lopes..but neither I nor any of my family or friends have drawn a tag in over 10 years..my suggestion is simple Choose one species & like many others have said u will have better odds all the way around
 
It is Swamp mule you Mental MIDGET.And all I am saying is SHUT UP I am tried of all of the crying about the Idaho draw and if I don't get picked then it must be broken.SOME ONE PLEASE GET A BOX OF TISSUE.
505crybaby2.jpg


The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.
 
Any system that guarantees one person a tag, by definition denies the tag from someone else. NOTHING is more fair than a RANDOM draw.I would, however, support longer waiting periods.
 
Points don't guarantee anyone a tag, it just increases your odds. NOTHING is more UN-FAIR than a random draw. How is it fair to have people drawing good hunts every year or every 10 years for that matter, while others have never drawn a single good hunt?????
 
Leave things the way they are. Everyone has a chance to draw every year. You can put in for "trophy" species OR deer, elk and antelope. The revenue generated is needed by the department.

Making a person choose one species may not have the desired effect you are after. Some hunts will see an increase in applicants.
 
>Making a person choose one species
>may not have the desired
>effect you are after.
>Some hunts will see an
>increase in applicants.

Uh.....how?
 
>Points don't guarantee anyone a tag,
>it just increases your odds.
>NOTHING is more UN-FAIR than
>a random draw. How is
>it fair to have people
>drawing good hunts every year
>or every 10 years for
>that matter, while others have
>never drawn a single good
>hunt?????

It's the only argument they can come up with, well that and you must be putting in for the hardest draws or the youth will not have a chance at those same hard draws in their lifetime (not that they or you stand much of a chance with or without points).
 
I am opposed to a point system. It may be fine for those now but I am concerned for my Grandchildern. 2,3,9yrs old. What about them. All that have points get to play the game and our future generations of hunting get the shaft and will have to watch on the sidelines while everyone older with points built up gets to hunt. If Idaho goes to the point system it will be just like every other messed up State with a bonus point system. Bonus Points started because State F&G's wanted the $$$$ and created a nighmare for furute generations. How many times have we heard.. "if you haven't been putting in and building points for a specific State don't start now because it is to late and you will never get drawn in your lifetime".

My 2$

))))......>
 
>Any system that guarantees one person
>a tag, by definition denies
>the tag from someone else.
>NOTHING is more fair than
>a RANDOM draw.I would, however,
>support longer waiting periods.


+1
 
that is a sweet picture of u there swamp donkey...it is broke thats why over 80 % of idaho hunters post their dislikes about it..
 
I say leave it alone! I have never drawn a tag in 23 years (and no I don't put in in Unit 45 every year) and I may never draw a tag. However, I would not be opposed to a longer waiting period in between hunts if that was proposed. It would only help drawing odds for the first 5 years or so, then those who drew the original year would be eligible again.

I get tired of the same agruements about a points system as well everybody assumed its a better system but people who put in for 20+ years don't agree with the points system either. You are never going to draw a tag for sure!

We are all just greedy and what to hunt as much as possible in the best areas! No matter what system we have, that will never change and as our population expands and habitat decreases so will our odds of drawing tags where we want to hunt! Sorry to be a Debbie Downer but this agruement gets old from both sides!

Thank God I live in IDAHO and still have opportunity to hunt hard and get lucky from time to time in an over-the-counter hunt!
 
Hey Oldhornfart I am not Crying about the Idaho Draw But you sure are.

The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.
 
Had the draw argument with my ferrier the other day who has not drawn a tag in 20+ years and laments how many points he would have built in that time. He also referenced other states where 5 or so points would guaranty him a great hunt. Hard to argue his point, from his perspective.

From mine I disagree for all the reasons mentioned: kids, increased applicants, etc.

I would agree to increasing the waiting period, but only for the species you draw for. Don't agree to limit putting in for only one species a year like trophy, but agree it might improve draw odds, but unlikely in the premier units as others would jump at perceived opportunity. The question is how many more years for the waiting period and is it just a slippery slope to "once in a lifetime" like trophy species. Since I moved here from another state to start to enjoy it's benefits, I am all for leveraging away from the non-residents to allow more access to residents, but we would have to foot a MUCH bigger share of the financial pie and I doubt residents will accept $100+ tag fee's.
 
We need to go back to the old days people. Learn how to HUNT! Quit worrying about the draw hunts its going to kill hunting. Want to shoot a trophy mule deer go hunt for one don't try to win one in a lottery. We need to get rid of all draw hunts. Pretty soon the fish and game is going to see $ signs and make us put in just to hunt at all. There's big deer to be shot in general areas, just put in your time and effort and you just might be amazed. There's no sense of accomplishment taking a big deer in a draw hunt anyways its just like someone giving it to you.(I know)
 
Be careful what you wish for.......

Eventualy, we will be paying higher fees, have longer waiting periods, choose your weapon, all controlled hunts etc....

Enjoy what you have now because hunting will become more and more restrictive.
 
you all broke my heart. i feel so bad (tear falling from my eye). put your big boy panties on and deal with it!! i'm a life long resident who probably has the worst luck in drawing tags. i've drawn one so-so buck tag and a couple cow tags....thats about it. points are not the answer. this topic comes up every year all you whiners dont draw anything. guess what, i went 0-2 again this year and i'm still glad it's a random draw. whoever above, said random draws are the farthest thing from a fair system, has to be the biggest retard around......excuse me.....utard:) buy your otc tag and put in a little effort/scouting/research. quit expecting your trophy controlled tag being delivered to you on a silver platter.
 
swampdipshit if u could read its very clear that I said "here is a suggestion" !! U start in with your out of state crap..I think Idaho could & should revamp their draw system doesnt matter to me if I draw a tag or not I still hunt & kill game every year !!! & I am not the only person with the same idea
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-11 AT 09:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-11 AT 09:47?PM (MST)

Hey man, apparently i'm the "retard." Very few people put more time into their hunting and prep then I do. I take care of horses 365 days a year. Trail riding, scouting trips, ect, mainly to use them for 3-4 weeks during the hunting season. I usually kill elk and deer every year. So dont give me this effort/scouting/research bullsh*t because I put my time in and am successful most of the time. Idaho is a still a great otc state, but having a random draw is NOT a fair system. I am not closed minded either, if someone can successfully tell me why points dont work I'm all ears. I have yet to hear why, using the same exact system we have now with guaranteed otc tags we cannot employ a point system on our draw tags. So please wipe the tears weeping down your cheek and tell us un-educated folks why the "random" draw works sooooo much better..........
 
"Giving a drawing advantage to one group of hunters can only be made by giving a drawing disadvantage to another group of hunters."

boy, that sure sounds FAIR huh? thats the jist of your precious bonus point system. if you honestly think RANDOM is not the fairest way, then i dont know what to tell you. every year we ALL have the same odds. why dont YOU tell ME how a bonus system is better than that?
 
I obviously just don't get it. How can it be fair for individual a to draw not 1, not 2, but 3 good tags every year, while individual b never draws 1 piss poor mediocre doe tag in his life. If individual a puts in for good either sex hunts he can draw those tags every year, EVERY YEAR! While individual b may never, I repeat NEVER draw a doe tag in his life under the current system. Now I know I just used an extreme example but under the current system that's how its setup. There is nothing fair about it. Now this is just an assumption but I would bet that most of the people that enjoy this current system draw good tags every few years. I don't blame you for not wanting a change, but dont sit there and try and tell me thats a fair system just because every year everyone has an equal shot. Whats fair is if you dont draw you have a better shot the next year, and the next year, and the next, until eventually you draw. Then the cycle repeats, what an idea, most will eventually draw a tag they have dreamed about, at least once in their lifetime. I will ask all of you again, please convince me otherwise, back it up with some facts, because just as always I got no good answer, none, non whatsoever..........
 
I will concede that Preference points work great for low demand hunts (antlerless deer/elk, general deer in Utah, antelope in Wyoming, most elk hunts in Colorado.

However, when the applicant/tag ratio gets above 8-10, the system WILL NOT WORK in the long run. Just look at the Sheep/Goat/Moose/Elk odds in states like Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming. It is practically impossible for a new hunter (someone coming of age or who hasn't been applying for whatever reason) to EVER draw one of those tags! Now what is fair about that???????

For example: It would take my 13 year old boy 155 years to draw a moose Bonus permit in Utah (if we were residents there). What is fair about that? Odds are way worse in Wyoming...pay $100/year for a preference point and it will only take 250 years to draw a sheep tag. What is fair about that?????

A few more years down the road and the MAJORITY of people drawing these coveted preference tags will be too old to even hunt.

Random draw is THE ONLY FAIR way to allocate tags! We all hear the stories, but there are very few people that consistently beat the odds and draw lots of tags.

If you don't think its fair that some people draw multiple tags, push for longer waiting periods. I already said I would support that. However, any statistician will tell you that longer waiting periods will not increase draw odds in any appreciable way, but it might help you sleep better knowing your neighbor cant get more tags than you.
 
Waiting period adjustment. I have proposed this idea before, in other discussions. How about a waiting period for a species equal to the draw odds of the hunt one draws. If the Deer hunt had 1:15 odds, the waiting period for future deer hunt applications would be 15 years. If 1:2, two years.
 
jetsled, re-read my first post. i hardly ever draw anything, and i DO NOT want to see a point system in idaho. i know its the luck of the draw, and so far, i'm not very lucky.
2 - 32a late cow tags
1 - 32a spring bear
1 - 55 buck tag (not the late hunt either)
2 - 23x extra doe tag
2 - 39 doe tags
1 - 55 doe tag
that is everything ive EVER drawn in my entire life in idaho....starting as a kid. i can tell you, it's not a very impressive list, but i stand by the random draw system. i'm not going to try to convince you.....youre a big boy and have obviously made your decision on what you think is best. i do, however, suggest you look up the definition of "RANDOM".
 
UGAHUNTER said it best regarding preference points. Another good example is Wyoming moose. I would love a chance to hunt moose in Wyoming, but I'm about 12 to 13 years behind max pts so I basically stand no chance for at least 25 years and 2,500 bucks invested (assuming Wy doesn't increase pt fee). However, if it was a bonus point system I would purchase points. Bonus points still works similarily to a random draw you just get more names thrown into the hat every year you don't draw a species.

As it was said preference points only work for those of us that get in on the ground floor and screws the up and coming hunters.

I would maybe, BUT hesitantly support a bonus point system in Idaho. I don't think Idaho has enough "trophy" hunts to support such a system. Plus I believe draw odds will get much worse the first year such a system was implemented because more people will apply to ensure they have max pts.
 
So, do you want to get screwed predictably or randomly???


I'd support bonus points with a max accumulation of......5(?)
 
"
I will concede that Preference points work great for low demand hunts (antlerless deer/elk, general deer in Utah, antelope in Wyoming, most elk hunts in Colorado.
However, when the applicant/tag ratio gets above 8-10, the system WILL NOT WORK in the long run. Just look at the Sheep/Goat/Moose/Elk odds in states like Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming. It is practically impossible for a new hunter (someone coming of age or who hasn't been applying for whatever reason) to EVER draw one of those tags! Now what is fair about that???????

For example: It would take my 13 year old boy 155 years to draw a moose Bonus permit in Utah (if we were residents there). What is fair about that? Odds are way worse in Wyoming...pay $100/year for a preference point and it will only take 250 years to draw a sheep tag. What is fair about that?????

A few more years down the road and the MAJORITY of people drawing these coveted preference tags will be too old to even hunt.

Random draw is THE ONLY FAIR way to allocate tags! We all hear the stories, but there are very few people that consistently beat the odds and draw lots of tags.

If you don't think its fair that some people draw multiple tags, push for longer waiting periods. I already said I would support that. However, any statistician will tell you that longer waiting periods will not increase draw odds in any appreciable way, but it might help you sleep better knowing your neighbor cant get more tags than you.

"

Best, most accurate post of the entire thread!
You freakin nailed it.

Thank You!
 
Ok I will admit I am new here and not trying to rock the boat. I am a non resident for Idaho. This is the first year I have applied and only applied as my last option as Nevada fell through for me.

Here is what has deterred me from applying

Cost. It cost me about 175 to apply for deer and I get nothing for that if I do not draw no refund no nothing. Oh but wait I can buy an overpriced general hunt tag and go on a forked horn hunt.

I apply for Nevada every year at about the same cost. Difference is I have a legit chance to draw any hunt any year. And you get 5 choices because they draw the hunter not by the hunt. Yes you can draw your 5th choice I have done it for deer and my brother has done it for Elk. This is what I really like about the system is you can still try for those really hard to draw units that only have a couple of tags and still have the chance to draw something else and get to go hunting. if you only want to hunt one particular hunt thats your choice.

Also you can get your money back if you dont want the point you just will not have as good of odds the next year.

It is really kind of cool looking at the draw results and seeing that it is random and you can draw with few or no points as you can see some with no points draw while somewith 10 points not!

My other issue with Idaho is they dont guarantee at least 10% of the tags to Non Residents I see some hunts that no non residents get drawn. How fair is that that that person just dropped up to 200 bucks and basically had no chance at drawing since no tag was awarded? In a case like that why isnt the money refunded?

Also the fact that you only have a chance at your first choice really sucks.

I think the waiting periods can keep things in check but at teh same time if you are on a lucky streak so be it.

Lastly as far as points go I respect that residents like things how they are but non residents have a lot of balls in the air.

If Idaho does do points make it like Nevada. If set up like states that have a max point system the youth will never have a chance as they grow.

I also think there should be more hunts that are once in a lifetime once you sraw your done and for those no points all for them self!
 
Drawing hunting tags is the only place in society where it's perfectly acceptable and more "fair" for someone at the back of a line to jump in front of everyone else. Try to pull that off in a grocery store. The next time the line is really long start screaming that it isn't "fair" that the people who have been standing there longer get to check out first. Then start to explain that one day your son will want to buy groceries and the growing line will be way too long for him. "He won't be able to eat for 350 years!"

If it takes hundreds of years for people to draw a tag, god will remove them from the line in front of you.

The only fair system in the West in my opinion is Colorado. That being said, I would like to see Idaho implement a system similar to Nevada because it's a great compromise. No guaranteed tags, everyone has a chance every year, but if you've been waiting longer your odds increase.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-11 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]That is a pretty lame analogy there prn!

Everyone that goes to the grocery store (at least in Todays modern time, in the US) can buy the food they need. Sorry, someone might have to wait in line a few minutes. Also, when there is a true food storage, it would be expected that women and children would eat first, while the strong men yield. Also, those are private commodities being sold. Hunting permits are public resources.

I maintain it is not fair to steal them from the youth of today so some other group can get them.
 
I also like Colorado's system (if a change is required) but I don't think Idaho has the quality to pull it off; unless they get rid of all OTC tags it will still be a cluster for the handful of decent tags in Idaho.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-11 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]Wow! Lame? You're not over thinking my analogy at all are you?

How about we change it to a ride at Disneyland? You've been dying to ride on "It's a Small World" because the song makes you all giddy. However, your not getting any closer because thousands of people are walking straight up to the front without waiting and getting right on, including people who just got off......Better analogy? You and I both know you wouldn't think that's fair.

I maintain that nothing is being stolen from anyone when the people who are waiting the longest get the chance first. If you think it's going to take the youth of today 150 years to draw a tag then you must know a miracle drug that's going to keep people alive forever.
 
That's funny,if you look at this post it looks like 80% of the hunters like it the way it is! Every year this subject comes up, and it gets shot down!, My suggestion is if you don't like it here MOVE!!!
 
PRN your analogy IS lame.

Use the lottery ticket as your analogy. You do not get to count all the years that you do not draw. YOU (no tag) and the Person who got the tag both paid the same money for the same chance and at least in Idaho had the same odds of drawing that tag that year. end of story. That is why you have to buy a new license and put in for the LE tags EVERY YEAR! This is not a year after year. Would you buy a lottery ticket if there were preference points, or what ever on it for those who were unsuccessful? No, that would be stupid to change the odds for one group of people.

Just because you "got in line" first; why does that give you any more "right" to that tag for that PUBLIC animal then sombody else? It makes no difference how many different years you have been putting in or how badley you want that tag, you or I have no more right to it than a twelve year old punk kid who doesn't even care if he goes hunting or to the movie!

Oh, is it because you have been donating year after year and have spent a lot of money with no return? Hear this often as a reason for points. So what, you knew the rules of the game when you applied all those years, don't like it then don't apply anymore.

I will make a bet, that sooner or later some hot shot kid in law school is going to figure out how much of a sham/scam these points games are and take it to them in court(s). I figure in another 20 or so years, entire generations of young hunter will be mathamatically eliminated from any chance at most if not all LE tags in UT, AZ, NV, and CO. I hope they also figure out and fix the corupt landowner/ conservation/ govenor/ whore your sates game animals out to the highest bidder tags....
 
>How about we change it to
>a ride at Disneyland? You've
>been dying to ride on
>"It's a Small World" because
>the song makes you all
>giddy. However, your not getting
>any closer because thousands of
>people are walking straight up
>to the front without waiting
>and getting right on, including
>people who just got off......Better
>analogy? You and I both
>know you wouldn't think that's
>fair.

One problem with your analogy is that in Disneyland, you can only wait in one line at a time. One of the problems with the proliferation of Draws across the West is that the guys with the cash, especially NR's from states outside the west, are in all the lines at the same time. I for one, as is true for many here, can't afford to play that game, especially not for me and my THREE sons.
 
Your math is actually mathematically impossible if you would give it a little thought.

You may not understand this but I'm actually opposed to bonus points in Idaho because I'm selfish and I want to jump in line. I just hate it when people use arguments of their way being "fair" when in all actuality it's not.

Based on your argument, is it safe to assume you're opposed to waiting periods? Last I checked, there wasn't one for the lottery. Just because I drew last year does not give you more "right" to that tag for a public animal than me, right?
 

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