Tag cuts

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
I dont like tag cuts. Id rather the season and start date be changed and shortened. Call me crazy, id rather the season be cut to only 1 day, for all weapons. Tag cuts cause backlog for too many years. I'd rather have the chance to hunt 1 day, be it every year or every other year. Waiting 4 to 9 years to hunt deer is Horrible. I'd rather eat a deer than an elk also. I'm not sure anyone else is willing to only have 1 day seasons, but I would be happy with it. Tag cuts is lost opportunity that we will never get back.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
I dont like tag cuts. Id rather the season and start date be changed and shortened. Call me crazy, id rather the season be cut to only 1 day, for all weapons. Tag cuts cause backlog for too many years. I'd rather have the chance to hunt 1 day, be it every year or every other year. Waiting 4 to 9 years to hunt deer is Horrible. I'd rather eat a deer than an elk also. I'm not sure anyone else is willing to only have 1 day seasons, but I would be happy with it. Tag cuts is lost opportunity that we will never get back.
You think the number of 2 points getting slammed now is bad, imagine an army of guys headed out for the only day of hunting in the season. “Brown it’s down” doesn’t even begin to describe what would take place 20 minutes into that 1 day season.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
If the hunts started on a Wednesday, I don't think it would be to big of a slaughter. Those 2 point slayers are gonna shoot em no matter what. I bet most guys would be so pissed that its only a 1 day season and start on a Wednesday. The only guys that would hunt will be MM guys and the like minded.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
If the hunts started on a Wednesday, I don't think it would be to big of a slaughter. Those 2 point slayers are gonna shoot em no matter what. I bet most guys would be so pissed that its only a 1 day season and start on a Wednesday. The only guys that would hunt will be MM guys and the like minded.
You mean like the muzzy hunt that starts on a Wednesday? It’s packed for that 1 day. After that things quiet down for the weekend. But statewide, that Wednesday opener is a mess. And with that being the ONLY day to hunt, you can bet your azz guys will be there for that 1 day. Even if it’s a week day.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
Muzzy guys are used to Wednesday opener. Not as many bucks get killed on the Muzzy and Archery, as the rifle. The rifle hunt is where the majority of the tags are issued. The rifle start day has been the same Saturday forever. A lot of rifle hunters show up to their camps on friday before the opener and are leaving Sunday before noon. Every year I see this happening. Only 3 days of hunting season in a year is saving more bucks.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
Going from almost 60 days of hunting season to just 3 days a year. Id rather that than tag cuts. Crowded or not, we have a tag more often. Its just a post, not a solution.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
Muzzy guys are used to Wednesday opener. Not as many bucks get killed on the Muzzy and Archery, as the rifle. The rifle hunt is where the majority of the tags are issued. The rifle start day has been the same Saturday forever. A lot of rifle hunters show up to their camps on friday before the opener and are leaving Sunday before noon. Every year I see this happening. Only 3 days of hunting season in a year is saving more bucks.
That’s an incorrect statement. Around 2009ish there were several units in utah who had a Wednesday rifle opener and a much shorter season. I was on those Wednesday rifle hunts and guess what? Packed with guys.

you’re a fool (and that’s putting it nicely) if you think guys won’t miss 1 day of work for a tag that’s only valid 1 day out of 365 days a year.

ps they hoped those shorter seasons would save more deer on those years. It did the exact opposite. Which is why they went away from it.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
The unit I hunted also had a 5 day season but it started on Saturday when they tried it. I had a different experience than you did. It wasn't more crowded, the same people only hunted the weekend and the mountain was very empty the last 3 days. Bucks survived every season that would have been killed on the second weekend, like every year with a 9 day season. There were more bucks around the mountain than there had been for years. It was great to see more bucks again. Then going back to 9 day rifle season the bucks were getting hit hard again. It hasn't been as good since. Thats my experience. I don't think I'm a fool.... We obviously have had different experiences. Good luck with your hunts, when you draw.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
The unit I hunted also had a 5 day season but it started on Saturday when they tried it. I had a different experience than you did. It wasn't more crowded, the same people only hunted the weekend and the mountain was very empty the last 3 days. Bucks survived every season that would have been killed on the second weekend, like every year with a 9 day season. There were more bucks around the mountain than there had been for years. It was great to see more bucks again. Then going back to 9 day rifle season the bucks were getting hit hard again. It hasn't been as good since. Thats my experience. I don't think I'm a fool.... We obviously have had different experiences. Good luck with your hunts, when you draw.
I draw every year. Never not had a deer tag in utah on the years I was eligible. No LL required to do so. Many guys can do it if they are flexible and willing to try new stuff. Try seeing the bigger picture
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
I only want to hunt 1 unit. Thats my choice. Bucks are going to get killed every year regardless of how long the season is. Less bucks are going to be killed in 1 day than in 9 days. Bucks that survive is more bucks for the next year. Maybe we get lucky and have good range conditions soon, so more deer are on the landscape. Im not a guy thats gonna shoot a small buck. NOT ever. Deer meat is what I prefer to eat, but i still won't just kill a small buck to fill a tag. I just want to hunt the unit more often. Hunting in the future is my concern.
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,509
3 two day hunts over a weekend. 3 weekends. Each hunt is 1 week, or whatever, apart. Tags determined by what the deer are doing during the hunt weekend.

It's really not that complicated...
 

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
10,325
We will never grow the herds by anything significant. We have what we have and need to work with it. People want to hunt, so we need to find a way to allow people to hunt. I’d much rather have a tag every year and only be able to shoot one deer every two or three years, rather than hunt one year and sit home the next or the next two.
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,509
I’m not a fan of hunting opportunity gone. I think I’d rather see hunters only allowed one buck per two years versus no hunting at all for a large chunk of people.
I’d much rather have a tag every year and only be able to shoot one deer every two or three years, rather than hunt one year and sit home the next or the next two.

Confusion. Is it sit out every other year or have a tag every year with regular limited opportunity?

You wanna grow the heard, only thing you can do is work with what you can control.

1) limit mass, concentrated hunting.

2) control predators. Bleeding heart interest groups are irrelevant. Quit caving in to them.

3) limit housing development in crucial winter range. Million dollar homes on the benches comes to mind.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
Hahaha, sober, thats my own preference. I am not saying that what I like or prefer is the only option. You being in Alaska, have many options compared to Me in Utah. To me, deer is my Favorite meal. If us Utah guys could hunt more Antelope, then I would say it is my Favorite. Or Buffalo.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
2,150
Hahaha, sober, thats my own preference. I am not saying that what I like or prefer is the only option. You being in Alaska, have many options compared to Me in Utah. To me, deer is my Favorite meal. If us Utah guys could hunt more Antelope, then I would say it is my Favorite. Or Buffalo.
I love antelope too! Good luck this fall!
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,135
You could simply greatly decrease the number of gun tags, increase archery tags, achieve the same result while still providing opportunity.

I'll notice no decrease in "conservation" tags, which is good, all that "conservation" work is obviously doing wonders for deer numbers
 

Muleman1

Active Member
Messages
903
I’m all for the hunter and wish we all could hunt every year but ut has messed up so bad they need to do something I wish they’d shorten the seasons and get rid of the expo tags the big game is hunted damn near year round then you have shed season the rest of the year when they finally get a break from hunting pressure
 

gundog2

Active Member
Messages
121
There is absolutely no reason that everybody can’t have opportunity to hunt season of choice every year. There are many other ways to reduce harvest such as shortening seasons, restrictions on optics, antler-point restriction, restrictions on legal shooting hours, selling multi-year tags good for one buck. They could even split two-point or less hunts from four-point or better hunts.

They could also just go back to the statewide or regional hunts and let people redistribute themselves when pressure gets too high.
 
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dogvalleymule

Member
Messages
71
We will never grow the herds by anything significant. We have what we have and need to work with it. People want to hunt, so we need to find a way to allow people to hunt. I’d much rather have a tag every year and only be able to shoot one deer every two or three years, rather than hunt one year and sit home the next or the next two.
What is wrong with going to 3 point or better, 10 day hunt for archery, 5 day hunt for muzzle, 5 day hunt for Rifle and no Doe hunts, this way you don't have to cut tags.
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,688
I agree with Founder this one. Utah has spent millions of dollars trying to grow our deer herd but it keeps shrinking. And guess what guys, no other western state is doing any better. For years, we thought Colorado was the model to follow but their herds are now in the toilet. I think most western states are coming to the conclusion that their mule deer herds are vulnerable and there are simply too many factors limiting significant and sustained herd growth.

I’m not suggesting that we give up and throw in the towel, but we need to realize that we have to manage for what we have — a small and ever-shrinking pie. Given the increasing demand to hunt, we will be faced with many difficult decisions in the future (how to limit technology, length of seasons, deer v. elk competition, changing the draw systems, LLs, etc.). It is easy to argue that those changes are only “social issues aimed at managing hunters” and we should just grow our deer herds, but that is a pipe dream. Sorry but I don’t see our deer herds growing in any significant and sustained way. I hope I’m wrong but there are simply too many challenges facing mule deer and we as hunters are not even at the top of the list.

Hawkeye
 
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hawkbill

Very Active Member
Messages
1,380
Deer numbers and trophy potential are shrinking in all western states. I do not like tag cuts either, but it’s nice to see that the DWR in Utah is at least listening to you guys, in Idaho we’re going to just keep knocking them down and over the counter tags for all
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
I agree with Founder this one. Utah has spent millions of dollars trying to grow our deer herd but it keeps shrinking. And guess what guys, no other western state is doing any better. For years, we thought Colorado was the model to follow but their herds are now in the toilet. I think most western states are coming to the conclusion that their mule deer herds are vulnerable and there are simply too many factors limiting significant and sustained herd growth.

And Hawkeye?

You've Bounced Me forever for what I Thought were the Top 3 Reasons Why Our Deer Herd is in PISS POOR Shape!

You're Finally Starting To Realize it's More than any 3 Reasons Why!

When Game Herds are Managed for a Healthy Herd Rather Than GREED & MONEY Get ahold of Me!

When the other 50+ reasons Why are Taken in to Consideration things MIGHT Change!

You Must Have Realized HELL-RIGHT Ain't Far Off!

I See You've Mentioned the LifeTimers again,WOW!

49 Years & Counting Of POOR Deer Management!

Stick around!

It'll get F'N Worse!





I’m not suggesting that we give up and throw in the towel, but we need to realize that we have to manage for what we have — a small and ever-shrinking pie. Given the increasing demand to hunt, we will be faced with many difficult decisions in the future (how to limit technology, length of seasons, deer v. elk competition, changing the draw systems, LLs, etc.). It is easy to argue that those changes are only “social issues aimed at managing hunters” and we should just grow our deer herds, but that is a pipe dream. Sorry but I don’t see our deer herds growing in any significant and sustained way. I hope I’m wrong but there are simply too many challenges facing mule deer and we as hunters are not even at the top of the list.

Hawkeye
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,688
ElkAss-

We both agree that there are many problems facing our deer herds and things likely are not going to get much better anytime soon. The difference between you and me is I am willing to try making some changes to see if they help our herds, take pressure off of the animals, or even help maintain what hunting opportunity we currently have. Some examples of possible changes include limiting technology (trail cameras, muzzy scopes, archery slider sights, long range rifles, etc.), restructuring our draw systems, limiting season lengths, eliminating the mentor program, etc.

Whenever anybody on this forum discusses any potential changes (trail cameras and muzzy scopes are two examples), you jump down their throat and argue that if we aren't willing to implement "HELL-RIGHT" and the 50+ changes listed therein then there is no point in making any changes. Sorry but I don't agree with that approach. We've see a whole host of changes since 1994 and I predict that we will see many more in the coming years. And yes, I predict lifetime licences will be reexamined at some point if things keep getting worse. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Let's hope we find something that allows us to change the current trajectory of our deer herds. According to the DWR, the main problem we are currently facing is the drought. So put on a dress and start practicing your favorite rain dance! ;)

Hawkeye
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,509
Slider sights - negative. People will just add pins.

Long range rifles - negative. Most modern cartridges are capable of 500 yd shots.

Muzzy scopes - maybe. People will just get better at hold over or build some kind of vernier sight.

Like it or not, reduction in hunting pressure for a time is the only sure way.
 

hawkbill

Very Active Member
Messages
1,380
Reduction in Tags and hunting pressure is the only thing that ever worked. Drought is a big factor also and the great human migration biking, hiking, predators. To much pressure, always taking the cream of the crop leaving immature Deer with a few big mature bucks which are scouted and followed all year long.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
Anyone remember the f-22 sight PSE made? Yeah I’ll just be adding more pins on one of those. Go ahead and take my slider. It won’t matter.

what’s your plan for rifles? Unless we go to big bore lever guns and open sights, even the older calibers with modern powder and Bullets shoot much flatter and accurately than they did 20+ years ago. There’s guys banging steel at a grand with a .22-250 without any effort.

go ahead and take the scopes off muzzys. The success rates will not change. Killers will be killers and will kill no matter the restrictions. Then there’s everyone else who get dumb lucky every now and then. Bottom line, the majority of hunters can’t do it on purpose consistently (thankfully) every year.

tag reductions is the only way to stop more bucks from getting killed. And I cringe typing that. That’s the last thing I want to see happen.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
Mark my words. In the near future you will have to choose whether you want to hunt general elk or general deer in Utah.
Until they eliminate ALL antlerless deer hunts, put all GS elk tags in the draw and restrict guys from having 3 elk tags a year in utah, that won’t be a reality. Both hunts are opportunity hunts. They want to keep it that way. The DWR proposing unlimited any bull tags and creating a 3 season spike tag is proof of that.

years ago the DWR asked what hunters wanted. Quality of opportunity. Majority voted opportunity. They don’t plan to change that.
 

elkantlers

Very Active Member
Messages
2,549
Until they eliminate ALL antlerless deer hunts, put all GS elk tags in the draw and restrict guys from having 3 elk tags a year in utah, that won’t be a reality. Both hunts are opportunity hunts. They want to keep it that way. The DWR proposing unlimited any bull tags and creating a 3 season spike tag is proof of that.

years ago the DWR asked what hunters wanted. Quality of opportunity. Majority voted opportunity. They don’t plan to change that.
We'll see
 

bpbigperm

Member
Messages
60
I would think the season dates would be more impactful on the deer than total days hunting. Maybe moving the dates from rut to pre-rut on rifle would be helpful. We love hunting in the rut with rifles, but there is a reason most states don’t allow that.
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,509
tag reductions is the only way to stop more bucks from getting killed. And I cringe typing that. That’s the last thing I want to see happen.

Jicarilla Apache shut down deer hunting for 5 years on their reservation and reopened with a highly managed draw system for its members.

Now its not uncommon for tags to be bought by non tribal members for $50k...
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
I would think the season dates would be more impactful on the deer than total days hunting. Maybe moving the dates from rut to pre-rut on rifle would be helpful. We love hunting in the rut with rifles, but there is a reason most states don’t allow that.
You realize we are talking about rifle general deer In utah and not limited rifle elk, right?
 

Bwht4x4

Active Member
Messages
903
Reduction in Tags and hunting pressure is the only thing that ever worked. Drought is a big factor also and the great human migration biking, hiking, predators. To much pressure, always taking the cream of the crop leaving immature Deer with a few big mature bucks which are scouted and followed all year long.

I agree. When I compare quality on the LE units with the GS deer hunts it all boils down to tag numbers. Reduce the tag numbers by 50% or more!!
 

elkantlers

Very Active Member
Messages
2,549
Jicarilla Apache shut down deer hunting for 5 years on their reservation and reopened with a highly managed draw system for its members.

Now its not uncommon for tags to be bought by non tribal members for $50k...
What does that have to do with General Tags in Utah?
 

Dangbig

Member
Messages
38
I agree. When I compare quality on the LE units with the GS deer hunts it all boils down to tag numbers. Reduce the tag numbers by 50% or more!!
Do you like sitting home?
Does yes female deer make the herd.
by reducing tags is just aF’nig joke you want deer balance the habitat kill a ton of elk, horses , buffs what ever is overloading you range. Let’s cut tags - wow most units don’t have the habitat to sustain the animals and nobody traps coyotes and they are crazy thick and everyone loves lions “killem” deer killing machines these jack rods on the WB just grease squeaky wheels and do stupid crap.so some people don’t ***** . I want a tag most likely wouldn’t fill it but I would like to go we don’t get years and experiences back but a bunch of god damn gomers are alright with sitting home blah!!
Now someone is going to tell me deer and elk don’t share the same habitat, save it make technology advanced trail camera has the evidence.
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
Jump Down their Throat Huh?

SPLAINING Stuff is more like it!

So Hawkeye?

Just How Many More Years do You Think This Suffering Deer Herd can Take of More BS/PISS POOR Management?

You Act Like We can Make These Baby Size Moves/Changes and Cost us Several More Years just to see if it'll be some kind of Miracle & Bring a Healthy Herd Back!

Gonna Take Some Major Changes!

I Agree!

We Got a Drought Going On!

That Ain't The Only GAWD-DAMNED Reason Why The TARDville Deer Herd is Suffering!

You Comprehendo That?






ElkAss-

We both agree that there are many problems facing our deer herds and things likely are not going to get much better anytime soon. The difference between you and me is I am willing to try making some changes to see if they help our herds, take pressure off of the animals, or even help maintain what hunting opportunity we currently have. Some examples of possible changes include limiting technology (trail cameras, muzzy scopes, archery slider sights, long range rifles, etc.), restructuring our draw systems, limiting season lengths, eliminating the mentor program, etc.

Whenever anybody on this forum discusses any potential changes (trail cameras and muzzy scopes are two examples), you jump down their throat and argue that if we aren't willing to implement "HELL-RIGHT" and the 50+ changes listed therein then there is no point in making any changes. Sorry but I don't agree with that approach. We've see a whole host of changes since 1994 and I predict that we will see many more in the coming years. And yes, I predict lifetime licences will be reexamined at some point if things keep getting worse. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Let's hope we find something that allows us to change the current trajectory of our deer herds. According to the DWR, the main problem we are currently facing is the drought. So put on a dress and start practicing your favorite rain dance! ;)

Hawkeye
 

Bwht4x4

Active Member
Messages
903
Do you like sitting home?
Does yes female deer make the herd.
by reducing tags is just aF’nig joke you want deer balance the habitat kill a ton of elk, horses , buffs what ever is overloading you range. Let’s cut tags - wow most units don’t have the habitat to sustain the animals and nobody traps coyotes and they are crazy thick and everyone loves lions “killem” deer killing machines these jack rods on the WB just grease squeaky wheels and do stupid crap.so some people don’t ***** . I want a tag most likely wouldn’t fill it but I would like to go we don’t get years and experiences back but a bunch of god damn gomers are alright with sitting home blah!!
Now someone is going to tell me deer and elk don’t share the same habitat, save it make technology advanced trail camera has the evidence.

Lowering the tags by 50% is not going to result in me staying home. I apply in most every western state and will get a tag or five every year. I'm with you on the horses. Get rid of them. Also with you on the elk. Lower numbers on most units and completely remove them from others.

Doing all that will still require some deer tag reductions. Just look at the SWD deer herd. You can hunt for 5 straight days on the SWD unit and never see a buck. Walk 1 mile to the west into NV and you will see a lot of deer everyday. Including bucks like you see in my avatar.

What's the difference? Tag numbers!

2020 deer total tags, not including LO tags:
Utah SWD - 657 tags
NV 231 - 327 tags

Like I said, reduce tag numbers by 50%!
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
Lowering the tags by 50% is not going to result in me staying home. I apply in most every western state and will get a tag or five every year. I'm with you on the horses. Get rid of them. Also with you on the elk. Lower numbers on most units and completely remove them from others.

Doing all that will still require some deer tag reductions. Just look at the SWD deer herd. You can hunt for 5 straight days on the SWD unit and never see a buck. Walk 1 mile to the west into NV and you will see a lot of deer everyday. Including bucks like you see in my avatar.

What's the difference? Tag numbers!

2020 deer total tags, not including LO tags:
Utah SWD - 657 tags
NV 231 - 327 tags

Like I said, reduce tag numbers by 50%!
Ok so go hunt nevada or figure out how to find a buck to shoot at in less than 5 days. But don’t make your inabilities reflect and impact everyone else who hunts the area. I know several guys who hunt that unit and pull a few studs out of it every year and do it in 3 days or less.
 

Bwht4x4

Active Member
Messages
903
Ok so go hunt nevada or figure out how to find a buck to shoot at in less than 5 days. But don’t make your inabilities reflect and impact everyone else who hunts the area. I know several guys who hunt that unit and pull a few studs out of it every year and do it in 3 days or less.
A few guys pulling "studs" out every year does not mean it's a quality hunt. There are always guys that know a unit well enough to kill big bucks every year. But when the average hunter with average skills sees few to no deer on a daily basis then there's something wrong.
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
Hey Delta?

You Got any Pics of any of them?

No!

I'm not Doubting You!

Just Like to See Bucks from different units/areas!




Ok so go hunt nevada or figure out how to find a buck to shoot at in less than 5 days. But don’t make your inabilities reflect and impact everyone else who hunts the area. I know several guys who hunt that unit and pull a few studs out of it every year and do it in 3 days or less.
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
1. Shoot all the wild horses on public land. No exceptions. Treat them like we do carp.
2. OTC lion tags valid for 365 days. Spot and stalk. Every lion checked in gets a $300 bounty. Wanna run dogs? Draw a tag.
3. Same as above, but for bears. Wanna bait? Draw a tag.
4. Eliminate ALL antlerless doe hunts statewide until population objectives are met state wide. If there’s problem deer in town, catch them and transplant them. Don’t care if the survival rate is less than ideal. I’d rather spend the money and take the chance with it living than it being road kill or shot and turned into shizzy jerky no one wants to eat. Deer are eating your flowers in the foothills? Too phuckin bad. Hit a deer with your car and claim it on insurance? You now owe the state $350 before you can get your car repaired. Slow the ***** down and pay attention to more than your phone and coffee.
5. Scopes on muzzys? They gone.
6. Uncapped, target turret scopes on your rifle? They gone too.
7. You wound a deer and can’t find it? Cut that tag. Your done. You get caught shooting another with proof? Loss of all privileges 10 years.
8. No one under the age of 18 is allowed to kill a buck deer with no less than 3 points on 1 side. Get caught doing so? Loss of privileges 10 years.
9. ANY tag revenue brought in by $FW, 70% of that money goes towards projects in the unit that tag was sold for OR put into the state fund that is used for wildlife studies or projects. 50% of the expo profit goes towards the UTIP, biology or habitat study projects. Can’t do that? Bye expo
11. did I mention QUIT SHOOTING DOES?
12. Get that asshat Byron Bateman off the WB. DumbDumb Donnie too. They are a plague.
13. Every coyote killed in the state with proof of location of kill gets you $100. No limit.
will that fix everything? No. Is it a good start? Maybe. Definitely better than what we have going now.
14. Pull 70% of all private livestock grazing on our public lands. Or up the price to $100 per head. This $1.89 or whatever they are paying now is bullchit. The rancher life may be hard, but that’s a choice they made themselves. We have to pay to play in every aspect when it comes to our public lands. It’s time they contribute as well. And don’t start with the “we put in springs, maintain trails and feed off fire hazards” BS. Anyone that’s set foot on our public land for
More than 3 minutes knows thats a bunch of horsechit!
 

Delta Bravo

Member
Messages
70
A few guys pulling "studs" out every year does not mean it's a quality hunt. There are always guys that know a unit well enough to kill big bucks every year. But when the average hunter with average skills sees few to no deer on a daily basis then there's something wrong.
I don’t recall anyone telling you that you have to hunt that unit. Doesn’t meet your needs?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
You're at 14!

Keep going to 50+!


1. Shoot all the wild horses on public land. No exceptions. Treat them like we do carp.
2. OTC lion tags valid for 365 days. Spot and stalk. Every lion checked in gets a $300 bounty. Wanna run dogs? Draw a tag.
3. Same as above, but for bears. Wanna bait? Draw a tag.
4. Eliminate ALL antlerless doe hunts statewide until population objectives are met state wide. If there’s problem deer in town, catch them and transplant them. Don’t care if the survival rate is less than ideal. I’d rather spend the money and take the chance with it living than it being road kill or shot and turned into shizzy jerky no one wants to eat. Deer are eating your flowers in the foothills? Too phuckin bad. Hit a deer with your car and claim it on insurance? You now owe the state $350 before you can get your car repaired. Slow the ***** down and pay attention to more than your phone and coffee.
5. Scopes on muzzys? They gone.
6. Uncapped, target turret scopes on your rifle? They gone too.
7. You wound a deer and can’t find it? Cut that tag. Your done. You get caught shooting another with proof? Loss of all privileges 10 years.
8. No one under the age of 18 is allowed to kill a buck deer with no less than 3 points on 1 side. Get caught doing so? Loss of privileges 10 years.
9. ANY tag revenue brought in by $FW, 70% of that money goes towards projects in the unit that tag was sold for OR put into the state fund that is used for wildlife studies or projects. 50% of the expo profit goes towards the UTIP, biology or habitat study projects. Can’t do that? Bye expo
11. did I mention QUIT SHOOTING DOES?
12. Get that asshat Byron Bateman off the WB. DumbDumb Donnie too. They are a plague.
13. Every coyote killed in the state with proof of location of kill gets you $100. No limit.
will that fix everything? No. Is it a good start? Maybe. Definitely better than what we have going now.
14. Pull 70% of all private livestock grazing on our public lands. Or up the price to $100 per head. This $1.89 or whatever they are paying now is bullchit. The rancher life may be hard, but that’s a choice they made themselves. We have to pay to play in every aspect when it comes to our public lands. It’s time they contribute as well. And don’t start with the “we put in springs, maintain trails and feed off fire hazards” BS. Anyone that’s set foot on our public land for
More than 3 minutes knows thats a bunch of horsechit!
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,688
We Got a Drought Going On!

That Ain't The Only GAWD-DAMNED Reason Why The TARDville Deer Herd is Suffering!

You Comprehendo That?

ElkAss-

Did I ever say drought was the ONLY problem impacting our herds? NOPE. Our herds are facing many challenges. According to the DWR, however, drought is the biggest problem that we are currently facing.

I’ve never said the DWR has done a great job managing our herds but what state has done better? What western state has solved the mule deer equation and is consistently growing its herds? NONE. Hence, my statement that we should probably get used to discussions about how to divide up a shrinking pie. It don’t see that trend changing anytime soon.

Hawkeye

PS - I didn’t know you speak Spanish!
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,509
What does that have to do with General Tags in Utah?
Simple. They turned their deer herd around by exercising a little discipline.

They aren't sitting on the couch on a Sunday afternoon complaining about low deer numbers on a MM forum.

Just an example, tht's all. So before anyone has the chance to ask if it means that all deer hunting should shut down across the state, the answer is no.

You choose the units hurting the most and reduce tags there first and monitor. It may take a few years, but if want deer numbers to increase, a little self control may have to be exercised...
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
ElkAss-

Did I ever say drought was the ONLY problem impacting our herds? NOPE. Our herds are facing many challenges. According to the DWR, however, drought is the biggest problem that we are currently facing.

I’ve never said the DWR has done a great job managing our herds but what state has done better? What western state has solved the mule deer equation and is consistently growing its herds? NONE. Hence, my statement that we should probably get used to discussions about how to divide up a shrinking pie. It don’t see that trend changing anytime soon.

Hawkeye

PS - I didn’t know you speak Spanish!
I Don't!

But The Language I Speak seems to be a Type That Nobody Listens to!
 

YBO

Long Time Member
Messages
3,154
I was recently in the Pine Valley unit, and compared to Kalifornicated that unit has an incredible amount of deer. Of course, the bucks had already cast their headgear for the season, but I saw one group of over 100 deer!! I wonder how many bucks were in the group? Just sayin.
 

elkantlers

Very Active Member
Messages
2,549
I was recently in the Pine Valley unit, and compared to Kalifornicated that unit has an incredible amount of deer. Of course, the bucks had already cast their headgear for the season, but I saw one group of over 100 deer!! I wonder how many bucks were in the group? Just sayin.
I would say there are 3 to four yearling bucks in those 100 deer. Which translates to 18 to 20 bucks using the DWR super duper calculator.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,669
I dont like tag cuts. Id rather the season and start date be changed and shortened. Call me crazy, id rather the season be cut to only 1 day, for all weapons. Tag cuts cause backlog for too many years. I'd rather have the chance to hunt 1 day, be it every year or every other year. Waiting 4 to 9 years to hunt deer is Horrible. I'd rather eat a deer than an elk also. I'm not sure anyone else is willing to only have 1 day seasons, but I would be happy with it. Tag cuts is lost opportunity that we will never get back.
Don't you remember when the general season went to five days and everyone said it didn't reduce the amount of deer being killed.
 

MuleyKiller

Member
Messages
75
This is like going to the gas station and putting in .03 cents worth of gas, and hoping that you can drive 300 miles on it.

There needs to be drastic measures taken to maintain our deer herd. If you want to increase our deer herd then you need to take even more than drastic measures. 5000 less permits isn't going to change a thing as far as deer herd quality or quantity goes. Maybe if they cut the number of tags in half statewide, along with a lot of other changes then maybe I would think that they actually cared about the deer herd and not there checkbook. I cannot even stand to listen to the RAC and wildlife board meetings. All you hear is Opportunity for all. As long as they have that mind set, Plan on driving as far as you can on .03 cents worth!
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,293
After They Went to a Draw On General Tags!

Been Taking Most Hunters 2-4 Years to pull a General Tag!

What's Their Attitude When They Finally Get a Tag?

Here's a Clue:

I'M F'N KILLING SOMETHING & I DON'T GAF HOW LITTLE OR BIG IT IS,SOMETHING IS DIEING!
 

JB1975

Active Member
Messages
243
After They Went to a Draw On General Tags!

Been Taking Most Hunters 2-4 Years to pull a General Tag!

What's Their Attitude When They Finally Get a Tag?

Here's a Clue:

I'M F'N KILLING SOMETHING & I DON'T GAF HOW LITTLE OR BIG IT IS,SOMETHING IS DIEING!
Ultimag's strategy. Not saying it is right or wrong (he purchased the tag and stated he kills legally), but definitely the opinion expressed by few.
 

hogg_65

Active Member
Messages
714
Shortening the seasons did help the Unit I hunt. I can only speak from my experiences. In my time in the mountains, I have also learned that the dwr Can't count Deer...... They just release information out, to comfort people. And some people believe that information.
 

Ultimag

Active Member
Messages
413
Ultimag's strategy. Not saying it is right or wrong (he purchased the tag and stated he kills legally), but definitely the opinion expressed by few
Been doing it my way for 39 yrs in 11 different states I won't change my,strategy
Or the way I hunt or what I kill.
when the resource is gone its,gone I won't lose sleep over it
Like I said,if I don't kill it somebody else,is,going to ,take it while its available
Enjoy today you never know if you'll see tomorrow
 

MuleyKiller

Member
Messages
75
Public land hunting in the west will be a thing of the past in a few years. The public land tags that will be available will be so hard to draw you will have to live two lifetimes to draw a tag, its already happening with the point creep that is taking place. start saving your money so that you can buy your kids a tag on a private ranch somewhere. Its the sad reality of it. To many people and not enough space or wildlife management to see what is happening to our resources. Everyone has Ultimags attitude " I wont change, I'm just going to hunt and kill everything until the resource is gone". Sounds like a heck of a management plan.
 

bucks

Member
Messages
62
Sad but true,We have over populated the world to the point were the animals don't have a chance, it has happened in the east for years land lease to ty up a spot to hunt over one acer of ground.It hurts to face the reality but the good old days of hunting are gone!!
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,688
I am supportive of the recent tag cuts by the DWR but we need to remember that hunters kill less than 30K deer a year in the state of Utah. When you couple that statistic with the fact that there are plenty of bucks in even our worst general units to breed the does, then you come to the conclusion that hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds. Yes, if you drastically cut tags you can grow a few bigger bucks but that will not significantly increase our herd numbers. Bucks do not birth fawns. :oops: (I hope I did not offend any WOKE sportsmen with that comment!) The key to significantly growing our herds, and really improving both opportunity and quality, is to increase the numbers of does and fawns, and to help them survive. As stated in many previous posts, this is affected by many complicated factors, including predators, motor vehicle accidents, weather, drought, habitat, year-round pressure on herds, etc. Yes, we need to cut tags when our herds are in the tank. However, cutting buck tags as a general matter will not grow our herds. If that was the solution then we would have record deer herds in Utah because we have gone from nearly 250K general deer tags to under 75K tags.

Hawkeye
 
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BrianID

Very Active Member
Messages
1,600
I think the best solution is to limit the guys that are killing the most deer and reward the guys that go home with tag soup. There are many guys that choose to have tag soup on a regular basis when they could tag a young buck. Then there are guys that think they need to notch every tag they get even though they don’t like or want the meat.

You could do this a couple different ways.

#1 Give the guys that turn back in an unused tag a bonus point or two.

#2 Make guys that tag a buck wait a year or two before they can have another tag.

This would make many guys think twice before pulling the trigger and there would be far fewer “last day” bucks killed. It would also inhibit the guys who think they need to kill a buck every year. It would still allow for opportunity to hunt but would limit the opportunity to kill.

Giving a bunch of tags to guys that like to hunt but haven’t shot a deer in 10 years causes very limited harm to the deer herd. Giving tags to guys that suck at hunting or are “lazy hunters” and spend more daylight hours in camp than hunting don’t kill many deer. I say let these guys hunt and restrict the “forky” killers.

Guys that kill a deer almost every time they are given a tag are a big problem for mule deer bucks in every western state. I realized guys like me were the biggest problem when I notched my general season tag in Idaho 5 years in a row. I thought what would incentives guys like me to not shoot a “last day” buck. If I wasn’t allowed a deer tag the following year, I can guarantee you I wouldn’t have shot 4 of those 5 deer.

I’ve been pushing this idea for over 15 years. It is really unpopular with guys like ultimag that think they need to kill something every time they have a tag. There just are not enough mule deer anymore for states to allow hunters to kill a buck every year. We can either limit tags or preserve more opportunity to hunt while limiting the opportunity to kill.

It would be nice to finally see all the forky killers get penalized and the guys that choose tag soup be rewarded
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
Messages
1,600
Been doing it my way for 39 yrs in 11 different states I won't change my,strategy
Or the way I hunt or what I kill.
when the resource is gone its,gone I won't lose sleep over it
Like I said,if I don't kill it somebody else,is,going to ,take it while its available
Enjoy today you never know if you'll see tomorrow
We tried that attitude in the US in the 1800’s. How well did it work for the deer, elk, bison and other herds?
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
Messages
1,600
I am supportive of the recent tag cuts by the DWR but we need to remember that hunters kill less than 30K deer a year in the state of Utah. When you couple that statistic with the fact that there are plenty of bucks in even our worst general units to breed the does, then you come to the conclusion that hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds. Yes, if you drastically cut tags you can grow a few bigger bucks but that will not significantly increase our herd numbers. Bucks do not birth fawns. :oops: (I hope I did not offend any WOKE sportsmen with that comment!) The key to significantly growing our herds, and really improving both opportunity and quality, is to increase the numbers of does and fawns, and to help them survive. As stated in many previous posts, this is affected by many complicated factors, including predators, motor vehicle accidents, weather, drought, habitat, year-round pressure on herds, etc. Yes, we need to cut tags when our herds are in the tank. However, cutting buck tags as a general matter will not grow our herds. If that was the solution then we would have record deer herds in Utah because we have gone from nearly 250K general deer tags to under 75K tags.

Hawkeye
Excellent points. The habitat just isn’t as good as it was 60 years ago across the west and predators (coyotes, lions and bears) populations are also not the same as they were 60 years ago. We as hunters also put so much more pressure on bucks with bigger antlers than hunters did 60 years ago.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,669
In my circles they said in HELPED the areas they were hunting??
It absolutely helped but lots of people and the DWR claimed it didn't help. Some stated people would hunt all five days instead of just a weekend or two, others said hunters would be less selective. It just doesn't make sense that it wouldn't help. When you eliminate four days of hunting that's a lot fewer deer getting shot.

I'm sure a search may dig up some of those old threads but those five day hunts ended quite a while ago, I don't remember how many years it's been.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,669
I am supportive of the recent tag cuts by the DWR but we need to remember that hunters kill less than 30K deer a year in the state of Utah. When you couple that statistic with the fact that there are plenty of bucks in even our worst general units to breed the does, then you come to the conclusion that hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds. Yes, if you drastically cut tags you can grow a few bigger bucks but that will not significantly increase our herd numbers. Bucks do not birth fawns. :oops: (I hope I did not offend any WOKE sportsmen with that comment!) The key to significantly growing our herds, and really improving both opportunity and quality, is to increase the numbers of does and fawns, and to help them survive. As stated in many previous posts, this is affected by many complicated factors, including predators, motor vehicle accidents, weather, drought, habitat, year-round pressure on herds, etc. Yes, we need to cut tags when our herds are in the tank. However, cutting buck tags as a general matter will not grow our herds. If that was the solution then we would have record deer herds in Utah because we have gone from nearly 250K general deer tags to under 75K tags.

Hawkeye
We have no idea the actual number of deer killed by hunters each year. Until there is mandatory reporting for all tags we will never know.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,669
Sad but true,We have over populated the world to the point were the animals don't have a chance, it has happened in the east for years land lease to ty up a spot to hunt over one acer of ground.It hurts to face the reality but the good old days of hunting are gone!!
and here I was hoping that the Kung Flu was going to cut draw odds in half or more :eek: Maybe next time.;)
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,669
I think the best solution is to limit the guys that are killing the most deer and reward the guys that go home with tag soup. There are many guys that choose to have tag soup on a regular basis when they could tag a young buck. Then there are guys that think they need to notch every tag they get even though they don’t like or want the meat.

You could do this a couple different ways.

#1 Give the guys that turn back in an unused tag a bonus point or two.

#2 Make guys that tag a buck wait a year or two before they can have another tag.

This would make many guys think twice before pulling the trigger and there would be far fewer “last day” bucks killed. It would also inhibit the guys who think they need to kill a buck every year. It would still allow for opportunity to hunt but would limit the opportunity to kill.

Giving a bunch of tags to guys that like to hunt but haven’t shot a deer in 10 years causes very limited harm to the deer herd. Giving tags to guys that suck at hunting or are “lazy hunters” and spend more daylight hours in camp than hunting don’t kill many deer. I say let these guys hunt and restrict the “forky” killers.

Guys that kill a deer almost every time they are given a tag are a big problem for mule deer bucks in every western state. I realized guys like me were the biggest problem when I notched my general season tag in Idaho 5 years in a row. I thought what would incentives guys like me to not shoot a “last day” buck. If I wasn’t allowed a deer tag the following year, I can guarantee you I wouldn’t have shot 4 of those 5 deer.

I’ve been pushing this idea for over 15 years. It is really unpopular with guys like ultimag that think they need to kill something every time they have a tag. There just are not enough mule deer anymore for states to allow hunters to kill a buck every year. We can either limit tags or preserve more opportunity to hunt while limiting the opportunity to kill.

It would be nice to finally see all the forky killers get penalized and the guys that choose tag soup be rewarded
You should try this one and let us know how it works out for you. If you kill a buck this year simply don't put in for the draws next year. You might need to do it for ten years before we have enough data to show results.

Personally I like meat in my tag soup.
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
Messages
1,600
Deadibob,

I’ve been choosing to eat tag soup on a regular basis for 15 years now. You have every right to put your tag on a buck every time you legal can. I would just like to see guys rewarded for choosing tag soup instead of a meat buck. There are many die hard mule deer hunters that feel bad for the deer and choose not to shoot a meat buck on a regular bases. If you are tagging a buck every time you get a tag I can see why you don’t want to be penalized for shooting a meat buck.

I’m still the problem some years. In 2018 I tagged bucks in Wyoming Idaho and New Mexico. In 2019 I tagged a buck in. Colorado. Last year I let a bunch of young bucks walk even though I would have liked to take some meat home.
 

Elkslayer2015

Active Member
Messages
332
1. Shoot all the wild horses on public land. No exceptions. Treat them like we do carp.
2. OTC lion tags valid for 365 days. Spot and stalk. Every lion checked in gets a $300 bounty. Wanna run dogs? Draw a tag.
3. Same as above, but for bears. Wanna bait? Draw a tag.
4. Eliminate ALL antlerless doe hunts statewide until population objectives are met state wide. If there’s problem deer in town, catch them and transplant them. Don’t care if the survival rate is less than ideal. I’d rather spend the money and take the chance with it living than it being road kill or shot and turned into shizzy jerky no one wants to eat. Deer are eating your flowers in the foothills? Too phuckin bad. Hit a deer with your car and claim it on insurance? You now owe the state $350 before you can get your car repaired. Slow the ***** down and pay attention to more than your phone and coffee.
5. Scopes on muzzys? They gone.
6. Uncapped, target turret scopes on your rifle? They gone too.
7. You wound a deer and can’t find it? Cut that tag. Your done. You get caught shooting another with proof? Loss of all privileges 10 years.
8. No one under the age of 18 is allowed to kill a buck deer with no less than 3 points on 1 side. Get caught doing so? Loss of privileges 10 years.
9. ANY tag revenue brought in by $FW, 70% of that money goes towards projects in the unit that tag was sold for OR put into the state fund that is used for wildlife studies or projects. 50% of the expo profit goes towards the UTIP, biology or habitat study projects. Can’t do that? Bye expo
11. did I mention QUIT SHOOTING DOES?
12. Get that asshat Byron Bateman off the WB. DumbDumb Donnie too. They are a plague.
13. Every coyote killed in the state with proof of location of kill gets you $100. No limit.
will that fix everything? No. Is it a good start? Maybe. Definitely better than what we have going now.
14. Pull 70% of all private livestock grazing on our public lands. Or up the price to $100 per head. This $1.89 or whatever they are paying now is bullchit. The rancher life may be hard, but that’s a choice they made themselves. We have to pay to play in every aspect when it comes to our public lands. It’s time they contribute as well. And don’t start with the “we put in springs, maintain trails and feed off fire hazards” BS. Anyone that’s set foot on our public land for
More than 3 minutes knows thats a bunch of horsechit!
Delta bravo
I like all of the other things you listed other than #4 #11 I've done the homework on this you need to have doe hunts and cow elk hunts it just needs to be manage correctly.
Now is not the time to be cutting too many tags until we pull out of this drought where in.

#14. big problem with this one
(Pull 70% of all private livestock grazing on our public lands. Or up the price to $100 per head. This $1.89 or whatever they are paying now is bullchit. The rancher life may be hard, but that’s a choice they made themselves. We have to pay to play in every aspect when it comes to our public lands. It’s time they contribute as well. And don’t start with the “we put in springs, maintain trails and feed off fire hazards” BS. Anyone that’s set foot on our public land for
More than 3 minutes knows thats a bunch of horsechit!)

I have family and friends that are hunters and they run cattle on the mountain( everything they do is BS)
My only problem with this is you don't think they do their part and we do more.


If you drive from Heber to the basin their are tons of deer and elk and cattle on private property.

My point is people don't see what they truly offer for the wildlife in the winter months or even year round a lot of cattlemen/ property owners give wildlife a safe haven even during hunting season without them right now especially during a drought years they are truly helping out are wildlife at who's expense the ranchers.


So if you want to do for one let's do for all, up the price per head of cattle to a $100 then lets go ahead and do so for the 4 months while there up on forest and then in return the ranchers can charge also $100 per deer and elk that is on their property year round.

Delta Bravo
My question is what do you pay every year and how many projects do you do or what do you do for our wildlife.?


So why don't you go up and improve water sources and build fences and improve roads and take your weed eater up and clear off the grass for fire hazards and while your at it go ahead and let the deer come down to your property and let them feed during the winter while your trying to feed cows trying to earn a living.


The only problem I see here is the cattle are a nuisance period.
or hunters they get sick and tired of having to delete 5000 pics off of their trail cameras and they get sick of them walking in on them while your trying to hunt ect... I have truly heard it all


the ranchers deal with a lot of SH!! as well I have watched the atv and side x sides chase the cattle around until they can't run no more.
I have closed gates after gates because hunters think they are going to get the cattle ranchers in trouble with the forest service because they are over feeding certain area's the list goes on


If you think cattlemen are hurting our wildlife herds. Here is something to read. (as far as sheep goes I don't know what the heck they eat)



Mule deer are primarily browsers, with a majority of their diet comprised of forbs (weeds) and browse (leaves and twigs of woody shrubs and sagebrush).



Deer digestive tracts differ from cattle and elk in that they have a smaller rumen in relation to their body size, so they must be more selective in their feeding. Instead of eating large quantities of low-quality feed like grass, deer must select the most nutritious plants and parts of plants.


Because of this, deer have more specific forage requirements than larger ruminants.


Last time I checked cattle don't eat sagebrush leaves and twigs. but they will definitely eat low-quality like grass.
 

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