Technology Changes

[slamdunk]

I'm Perty Much On Board With Zeke On This One!

And copple2 As Well!

This BS Does Nothing To Improve Our Herds!

Their Plan is To Try & Reduce Success Rates!

So They Can Sell More Tags & Put More People/Pressure in The Field!

Put More Money In Their Pockets!

And Not GAF About The Over Hunted Herds We Already Have Without More BS Taking Place!

GEEZUS!

So are you saying we should just leaving it as is and continue down the hole further?

Baiting, cams, no weapon restrictions?

No game.....

 

[Bigwiffy]

So are you saying we should just leaving it as is and continue down the hole further?

Baiting, cams, no weapon restrictions?

No game.....

You already got baiting and cams....take the muzzy scopes and slider sights next. Leave your Lapua alone though

 

[elkassassin]

I've Had A Major Chang of Mind!

I Thought When This BS Was Stirred Up Several Months ago,We Were gonna Try And Improve Game Herds By Limiting Technology & Gadgetry!

I've Said From The Beginning I'd Glady Give Some Up As Long as it was an Even'Steven Deal across the Board of Weaponry!

This BS Has Nothing To Do With Improving Suffering Deer Herds!

This Would Put More Hunters/Pressure in the Field,Just How GAWD-DAMNED Much More Pressure Do We Need in the Field?

Another Way To Put More Money in The DWR'S Pockets is ALL it Is!

So I've Changed My Mind!

PISS On Any Weaponry Change Until It's Being Changed For a Good Reason That Makes Sense that Will Help Our Herds Rather Than Putting More Pressure On Our Herds!

As For Now I'm NOT Giving Up Any Technology For PISS POOR Reasons!

Somebody Wanna Take This Post To The WB,GIT-R-DONE!



!

 

[elkassassin]

Hey PUNK!

When The TECHNOLOGY/GADGETRY Is PLUCKED For The Right Reasons I'll Be All Over it!

The Plan They Are Working On Puts More Hunters in the Field!

Tell Me That'll Fix Anything!

MY BLOOD TEMP IS RIGHT ABOUT 223 DEGREES AS WE SPEAK!

So are you saying we should just leaving it as is and continue down the hole further?

Baiting, cams, no weapon restrictions?

No game.....

 

[elkassassin]

Hey PUNK!

You've Heard Me Forever!

Yes!

We Need Change!

But We Need GOOD Change!

We Need Smart Change!

I Just Can't Believe Hunters Would Fall For Such a F'D Up Plan!

 

[roadrunner]

Keep in mind these changes are not meant to increase deer herd numbers.
This is to keep success rates in check so as to increase hunter opportunity along with fair chase in mind for each respective weapon and season.

Archery is a short range.
Muzzies are medium.
Rifles cover all ranges.

Whatever helps people sleep at night I suppose...

 

[Deerlove]

Gotta love the misinformation regarding the Utah LE Elk rut hunt as being the 'big issue'. Go look at the data yourself, the September rifle rut success rate is generally a couple % points higher than the late rifle elk hunt. Not enough to even matter but that rut hunt sure pisses off stick flippers for whatever reason. I don't know why folks think moving it will solve the world's problems. I'm just tired of the bullshit

2021 Data:
Manti Early Rifle Success: 80.3%
Manti Late Rifle Success: 84.1%

Wasatch Early Rifle Success: 70.2%
Wasatch Late Rifle Success: 65.0%

Fish Lake Early Rifle Success: 85.7%
Fish Lake Late Rifle Success: 88.5%

archery?

 

[roadrunner]

Okay my point here is put out the actual data.

Manti
Early rifle 156 tags issued- 80.3% Success
Late rifle 120 tags issued- 84.1% Success

Wasatch

Early rifle 221 tags issued- 70.2% Success
Late rifle 127 tags issued- 65% Success

Fish lake

Early rifle 82 tags issued - 85.7% Success
Mid rifle 27 tags issued -56% Success
Late rifle 26 tags issued - 88.5 % Success

Percentages don't mean anything till you add tag numbers.

How about you give me and everyone else a good reason to keep the early rifle hunt?

The reason why the Mid season is low percentage is because it over laps the spike hunt. If you move the early season rifle rut hunt on top of the spike hunt you bet your butt the success rates will drop.

Distribution of age class taken for each hunt would tell the real story.

If a guy rifle hunted the way you have to archery hunt, the success rate would be the same for the rut hunt if limited to a 30-30.

 

[grizzly]

The committee will make recommendations to the DWR/WB.
Once the committee makes the recommendations, whatever the DWR/WB decides to act on goes through the RAC process. It is there public can respond and make comments.

The committee is as follows.

Kevin Norman - SFW
Doug Peterson - MDF
Mark Thompson - Manufacture
Randy Walk - UAA
Austin Atkinson - Guide/RAC
Tawny Meyer - FS Officer
Thylissa Plyer - Wild Arrow Owner
Ben Dentamonte - Social Media
Bryce Thurgood - WB
Rusty Farsworth - Guide
Kaden Roberts - Public at Large
Dave Freiss - CWMU
Randy Larsen - University
Hadlee Sulivan - Younger Generation Hunter

At least one of those guys is into Long Range Shooting and another owns a company that specializes in long range shooting.

 

[elkassassin]

One Social Media Guy!

One Public At Large!

One Younger Generation Hunter!

 

[elkassassin]

Which at This Point Might Be A Good Thing!

At least one of those guys is into Long Range Shooting and another owns a company that specializes in long range shooting.

 

[grizzly]

Which at This Point Might Be A Good Thing!

It's interesting that they have a spot for "manufacturer" and that happens to be a long range rifle manufacturer.

 

[SS!]

I’m surprised they let someone on the committee who didn’t even know he was hunting a deer unit his tag was not valid for in WY. If he can’t even read simple regs how is he qualified for being on a committee? @Chesterwyo anything goes in Utah

 

[slamdunk]

Well one thing I'm seeing all of the sudden is that very few want to see future increases in hunters, yet just a short while ago it was "we are losing hunters in this society and need recruitment and change before we lose it all. My kids and grandchildren won't have anything to hunt".

And on the flipside, I'm seeing a few are actually frightened that tweaking the technology laws are going to work so well that the mountains will be flooded with hunters again like back in the 90's when we had over 200k roaming the hills versus the 94k we have today.
I love the confidence in the upcoming changes actually making such a huge impact so suddenly!

Unfortunately, that's not a realistic view.
It would take a decade at best to see an impact to increase tags significantly enough to change the landscape on opening weekend.

Anyone ever read the book "Who Moved My Cheese?"
That is exactly what's happening with all this change.

 

[shootem]

So are you saying we should just leaving it as is and continue down the hole further?

Baiting, cams, no weapon restrictions?

No game.....

Slam, how many times have you preached that these restrictions are not intended to bring the deer herds up???? Now you’re singing a different tune??

 

[elkassassin]

I'm Surely Not Against Change!

But Let's Make Changes That Will Improve The Quality of Our Herds & The Quality of The Hunts Rather Than The Quantity of Hunters in the Field!

Yes!

There Might Be Less Hunters Than Once upon a Time!

Sure The Hell Way Less Deer Than There Once Was As Well!

As Bad As I Thought The Deer Hunting Had Became in 1980 I'd Sure As Hell Like To Back to it Now!

 

[slamdunk]

Slam, how many times have you preached that these restrictions are not intended to bring the deer herds up???? Now you’re singing a different tune??

My tune has never changed in the least.
Our herd numbers are down and so is quality, no one is denying either issue.

I am try to do my part by being involved in every aspect from conservation projects to getting involved in this process of trying to improve our quality and slow something we should have slowed decades ago.

 

[slamdunk]

I'm Surely Not Against Change!

But Let's Make Changes That Will Improve The Quality of Our Herds & The Quality of The Hunts Rather Than The Quantity of Hunters in the Field!

Yes!

There Might Be Less Hunters Than Once upon a Time!

Sure The Hell Way Less Deer Than There Once Was As Well!

As Bad As I Thought The Deer Hunting Had Became in 1980 I'd Sure As Hell Like To Back to it Now!

I don't understand how shutting down 500 yard trophy buck kills with a muzzleloader won't help improve quality?

As for herd number increases, you're missing all the other charters trying to tackle that through so many other areas.

 

[elkassassin]

I Don't See How Adding More Permits With a Little Less Technology is Gonna Fix SQUAT!

Ah!

The SmokePole Is Singled Out Again!

I don't understand how shutting down 500 yard trophy buck kills with a muzzleloader won't help improve quality?

As for herd number increases, you're missing all the other charters trying to tackle that through so many other areas.

 

[elkassassin]

When The HARPING Started On This CUT THE TECHNOLOGY I Seriously Thought It Might Help If All Weaponry Got Equal/Fair Cuts across the Board!

I Had No Idea it Was JUST To Lower Success So More Permits can Be Sold!

That Will NOT Fix The Problem!

But Oh Boy The Opportunity!

 

[slamdunk]

When The HARPING Started On This CUT THE TECHNOLOGY I Seriously Thought It Might Help If All Weaponry Got Equal/Fair Cuts across the Board!

I Had No Idea it Was JUST To Lower Success So More Permits can Be Sold!

That Will NOT Fix The Problem!

But Oh Boy The Opportunity!

They are, I just used the muzzleloader as an example because it's had the most significant increase in killing distance.

 

[elkassassin]

The Long Rangers Shooting 1,000+ Yards is not much of an Increase?

The StickFlippers Shooting a 100+ Yards is Not much of an Increase!

I Get it!

DAMN SmokePolers!

 

[SS!]

Slam, how many times have you preached that these restrictions are not intended to bring the deer herds up???? Now you’re singing a different tune??

???? so true!!

 

[elkassassin]

When Somebody Gets Something Going That Increases The Quality & Quantity Of Our Herds Please Let Me Know!

I'm Not Against TECHNOLOGY & GADGETRY Cuts!

But I'm Not For it Just To Sell More Tags & Put More Traffic in The Field To Do Nothing More Than Garner More Money!

 

[elkantlers]

It's about balance Zeke and there isn't anything wrong with that....middle ground.

Our "Premium" units aren't so Premium anymore, why?
Because we are too effective, plain and simple.

Oak Creek won't last long either when we are removing half a dozen or more 200" bucks year after year, and trophy quality bulls are in the same boat.
We don't give anything a chance anymore.

Why is killing a 200" buck or a "Trophy Bull" a bad thing? They have most certainly reached their prime and have had plenty of opportunity to pass along genetics. To me, this exactly the animals that we would hope hunters are able to harvest.

 

[SS!]

Oh come on the pausy is the premier deer tag in the state. Smoker 170” bucks!

 

[slamdunk]

Why is killing a 200" buck or a "Trophy Bull" a bad thing? They have most certainly reached their prime and have had plenty of opportunity to pass along genetics. To me, this exactly the animals that we would hope hunters are able to harvest.

It's not a bad thing, you are correct.
The concern is we are killing all of them on specific units year after year.
Henry mountains are a perfect example.
Is it a bad thing to see more get through the hunts?

Anyone who can deny we aren't more effective and efficient at targeting certain bucks is lying to themselves.

 

[hossblur]

It's interesting that they have a spot for "manufacturer" and that happens to be a long range rifle manufacturer.

Your worried about that?

Chessers buddy shed crazy somehow is in the committee. How on gods green earth did that guy get on any committee about anything other than being a jackass? I'm assuming he brings the orange slices and Capri Suns?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Distribution of age class taken for each hunt would tell the real story.

If a guy rifle hunted the way you have to archery hunt, the success rate would be the same for the rut hunt if limited to a 30-30.

Sorry I disagree but if you want to start another thread I’m all in.
Not going on with this on Slams thread.

 

[slamdunk]

Sorry I disagree but if you want to start another thread I’m all in.
Not going on with this on Slams thread.

Is he's saying today's archery equipment is equivalent to a 30-30?
If I were an archer, I'd be lighting him up over that comparison.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Your worried about that?

Chessers buddy shed crazy somehow is in the committee. How on gods green earth did that guy get on any committee about anything other than being a jackass? I'm assuming he brings the orange slices and Capri Suns?

Hahaha but he has janitorial experience

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Is he's saying today's archery equipment is equivalent to a 30-30?
If I were an archer, I'd be lighting him up over that comparison.

yup he is slam.
I love Archery/rifle/muzzleloader if he starts another thread I will lay into that comment.

 

[grizzly]

Your worried about that?

Chessers buddy shed crazy somehow is in the committee. How on gods green earth did that guy get on any committee about anything other than being a jackass? I'm assuming he brings the orange slices and Capri Suns?

Never heard of cheeser or shed crazy. Sorry

Slam's asked us to stay on topic though so let's not hijack. Plus, between you and me, I doubt I care to find out who they are.

 

[BackcountryRob]

No electronics on archery. No scopes on Smoke Poles or rifles. Make a traditional archery and rifle season with more tags then don't restrict electronics on the modern season but restrict tag numbers. No rangefinders would be an interesting debate. I'm all for some restrictions, some of these hunts you see, such as Jimmy Johns Bull in Arizona on the Governor's tag is a joke. A team of guides glass and locate the 'trophy' then someone obsessed with stuffed animals shoots it from 1,000 yards. No hunt, no struggle, no grit or respect for learning about the animal.

 

[hossblur]

Never heard of cheeser or shed crazy. Sorry

Slam's asked us to stay on topic though so let's not hijack. Plus, between you and me, I doubt I care to find out who they are.

You don't, it will cost you brain cells

 

[Vitalwave]

Well one thing I'm seeing all of the sudden is that very few want to see future increases in hunters, yet just a short while ago it was "we are losing hunters in this society and need recruitment and change before we lose it all. My kids and grandchildren won't have anything to hunt".

And on the flipside, I'm seeing a few are actually frightened that tweaking the technology laws are going to work so well that the mountains will be flooded with hunters again like back in the 90's when we had over 200k roaming the hills versus the 94k we have today.
I love the confidence in the upcoming changes actually making such a huge impact so suddenly!

Unfortunately, that's not a realistic view.
It would take a decade at best to see an impact to increase tags significantly enough to change the landscape on opening weekend.

Anyone ever read the book "Who Moved My Cheese?"
That is exactly what's happening with all this change.

+ Drastic technology restrictions will absolutely work in reducing success rates. Especially the ones I listed earlier on this thread.

+ I have never wanted an increase of hunters in the field. Kids or adults. I think there is PLENTY of recruitment/demand already. This is evident using a simple example of how fast the over the counter tags sell out. General season elk tags sell out faster and faster each year. Demand is high.

Nevertheless, kids, just like adults, want to have a good experience hunting. Major tech restrictions followed by more tags certainly won't help the youth get into hunting. Feedback from the younger and older generation alike is that they would like to see more animals and fewer people. Like @elkassassin said, I think tech limitations are easier to swallow when they aren't coupled with an agenda of more tag sales. It's like taking one step forward and two steps back.

 

[roadrunner]

yup he is slam.
I love Archery/rifle/muzzleloader if he starts another thread I will lay into that comment.

Nope, he isn't slayer. You, like many others, love to take things out of context.

This thread is about limiting technology to decrease success rates to increase opportunity.

My comment is relative to the rifle rut hunt that if a guy with an open sight lever action rifle hunted the same way you do with archery tackle to get within at least 100 yds, I speculate the success rates would not change that much.

If the open sighter were to rely on lobbing bullets at distance, then it would likely have a change on success rates.

It really isn't that difficult to understand. I didn't "derail" the thread. You and that other guy did...

 

[Vitalwave]

Well one thing I'm seeing all of the sudden is that very few want to see future increases in hunters, yet just a short while ago it was "we are losing hunters in this society and need recruitment and change before we lose it all. My kids and grandchildren won't have anything to hunt".

And on the flipside, I'm seeing a few are actually frightened that tweaking the technology laws are going to work so well that the mountains will be flooded with hunters again like back in the 90's when we had over 200k roaming the hills versus the 94k we have today.
I love the confidence in the upcoming changes actually making such a huge impact so suddenly!

Unfortunately, that's not a realistic view.
It would take a decade at best to see an impact to increase tags significantly enough to change the landscape on opening weekend.

Anyone ever read the book "Who Moved My Cheese?"
That is exactly what's happening with all this change.

@slamdunk I think its good you are trying to be involved. I personally am a bit guilty of not getting involved enough over the years. I need to be better especially now. Lots of big changes being discussed.

Rather than watering down big game hunting success rates for the purpose of selling more tags, why doesn't the team focus on other opportunity-based actions. One idea is expanding the upland game hunting in the state. I loved what they did with releasing pheasants the last couple years. Why couldn't they do that with quail, chuckers, and other game birds? Team up with land owners or the CWMU units. I bet that would be well received.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Nope, he isn't slayer. You, like many others, love to take things out of context.

This thread is about limiting technology to decrease success rates to increase opportunity.

My comment is relative to the rifle rut hunt that if a guy with an open sight lever action rifle hunted the same way you do with archery tackle to get within at least 100 yds, I speculate the success rates would not change that much.

If the open sighter were to rely on lobbing bullets at distance, then it would likely have a change on success rates.

It really isn't that difficult to understand. I didn't "derail" the thread. You and that other guy did...

Okay my bad.
I disagree again look at the harvest Success rate on archery then get back to me.
Also remember they do have a month to hunt.
It really isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[elkantlers]

Your worried about that?

Chessers buddy shed crazy somehow is in the committee. How on gods green earth did that guy get on any committee about anything other than being a jackass? I'm assuming he brings the orange slices and Capri Suns?

He seems legit. SMH
Seriously, This is who the DWR has representing us on the commitee.

Benjamin Dettamanti on Instagram: "I’m a healthy guy now"

444 likes, 13 comments - shedcrazyJune 8, 2022 on : "I’m a healthy guy now"

www.instagram.com

 

[Elkslayer2015]

My comment is relative to the rifle rut hunt that if a guy with an open sight lever action rifle hunted the same way you do with archery tackle to get within at least 100 yds, I speculate the success rates would not change that much.

Really did you just say that. the room for error is totally different they have the ability to sling lead a lot quicker come on be realistic here.

 

[hossblur]

He seems legit. SMH
Seriously, This is who the DWR has representing us on the commitee.

Benjamin Dettamanti on Instagram: "I’m a healthy guy now"

444 likes, 13 comments - shedcrazyJune 8, 2022 on : "I’m a healthy guy now"

www.instagram.com

That's after MTN ops has been on committees.

Awesome that Slam is there, dude volunteers a ton of time, and is real level headed, he's the type that should be there.

School janitors who are now "instafamous", not so much

 

[elkantlers]

That's after MTN ops has been on committees.

Awesome that Slam is there, dude volunteers a ton of time, and is real level headed, he's the type that should be there.

School janitors who are now "instafamous", not so much

He does energy drink reviews also. So there's that. That will come in handy.

 

[HikeHunt61]

He does energy drink reviews also. So there's that. That will come in handy.

You're on to something! Hungover, non-caffeinated hunters have lower success rates. Ban energy drinks!

 

[slamdunk]

He seems legit. SMH
Seriously, This is who the DWR has representing us on the commitee.

Benjamin Dettamanti on Instagram: "I’m a healthy guy now"

444 likes, 13 comments - shedcrazyJune 8, 2022 on : "I’m a healthy guy now"

www.instagram.com

Absolutely not, he is one single voice, one vote.....just like all of us. No ONE is calling the shots!

 

[rmanwill]

Whatever they do, I hope they get it right and leave it alone after this. All the game changing is getting expensive$$$. Just saying.

I agree that back in the 70's and 80's and before we were all just out hunting to be hunting and a lot was about putting food on the table. We used old military caliber rifles with open sites. If you couldn't see horns with the naked eye it was to far away to shoot at. Yes tags were either sex, but most targeted bucks, but could fill the freezer or bottle a doe if needed.

I didn't ask for turret scopes, range finders, inline muzzleloaders, magnification scopes on muzzleloaders, 100+ yard bows, ect. However, we all have better paying jobs and all want to keep up with the new tech to a point to not loss all the advantage to a few (some will always go all out tech). Common sense kind of went out the window. I agree the big game has a tough time getting through a few years.

I was always fine with the 3x9 scopes on rifles, the 50 yard shot with a bow was max and started muzzleloader hunting with the Hawken.

Yes I have numerous rifles with engraved turret's (223 all the way up to 300 RUM). Very seldom even hunt with a rifle in home state of Utah. Just rifle hunt out of state or if draw a limited Utah tag.

Started muzzleloader hunting with the Hawken and then about 30+ years ago went to a white inline precession cap, which I used for 25+ years and still use occasionally. Yes I have up graded to a couple TC muzzleloaders and then the Remington Ultimate (keeping up with tech, better ignition and range/accuracy). I was always happy with the open sights, 1x scope or aimpoint scopes.

Then a few years ago the DWR stated "we don't care what magnification is on a muzzleloader" Now everyone, but a few went to 4X, 3x9 and even higher power scopes. Some are a little pissed that the DWR did this just a few years ago, which encouraged many to go out and spent several hundred dollars for scopes to doing complete rifle builds for several thousand dollars with high end scopes.

Yes I own 4 muzzleloaders and one is a Remington. However, I still just shoot the triple 7 powder and the barnes bullets that came with and was recommended for the muzzleloader. I did put a scope on, but luckily just a $300. Leupold 3x9 muzzleloader scope. Never have tried the new BH209 or changed out to the new ignition systems (still factory stock).

All I'm saying is that purchasing of rifles, muzzleloaders and archery equipment and aiming devices/scopes is very expensive. Hopefully Utah stays common sense enough that we don't need Utah specific weapons just to hunt this state. Hopefully Utah will stay in line with most of the other states and the same weapons can be used in numerous states.

I know new young hunters struggle to get into hunting with all the equipment and can't afford to change things every few years. Keep it common sense and simple.

I know if there is big changes and all give some, I and numerous others have $700-$1000's of dollar scopes, $500-$1000's of dollar muzzleloaders and $300-$1000's of dollar muzzleloader specific scopes that will be useless in the state of Utah. I will be fine with what they change and will help out my son's and family members with the expense of whatever the changes bring, but there is a lot of younger (raising a family type hunters) that this will impact financially, especially in the current time we are all dealing with right now.

Sorry for the rant. Hopefully the DWR will get it right for the long term with some good common sense involved. I do agree it has gotten way out there and could be reeled in to put the HUNT BACK INTO THE HUNT.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Whatever they do, I hope they get it right and leave it alone after this. All the game changing is getting expensive$$$. Just saying.

I agree that back in the 70's and 80's and before we were all just out hunting to be hunting and a lot was about putting food on the table. We used old military caliber rifles with open sites. If you couldn't see horns with the naked eye it was to far away to shoot at. Yes tags were either sex, but most targeted bucks, but could fill the freezer or bottle a doe if needed.

I didn't ask for turret scopes, range finders, inline muzzleloaders, magnification scopes on muzzleloaders, 100+ yard bows, ect. However, we all have better paying jobs and all want to keep up with the new tech to a point to not loss all the advantage to a few (some will always go all out tech). Common sense kind of went out the window. I agree the big game has a tough time getting through a few years.

I was always fine with the 3x9 scopes on rifles, the 50 yard shot with a bow was max and started muzzleloader hunting with the Hawken.

Yes I have numerous rifles with engraved turret's (223 all the way up to 300 RUM). Very seldom even hunt with a rifle in home state of Utah. Just rifle hunt out of state or if draw a limited Utah tag.

Started muzzleloader hunting with the Hawken and then about 30+ years ago went to a white inline precession cap, which I used for 25+ years and still use occasionally. Yes I have up graded to a couple TC muzzleloaders and then the Remington Ultimate (keeping up with tech, better ignition and range/accuracy). I was always happy with the open sights, 1x scope or aimpoint scopes.

Then a few years ago the DWR stated "we don't care what magnification is on a muzzleloader" Now everyone, but a few went to 4X, 3x9 and even higher power scopes.

All I'm saying is that purchasing of rifles, muzzleloaders and archery equipment and aiming devices/scopes is very expensive. Hopefully Utah stays common sense enough that we don't need Utah specific weapons just to hunt this state. Hopefully Utah will stay in line with most of the other states and the same weapons can be used in numerous states.

I know new young hunters struggle to get into hunting with all the equipment and can't afford to change things every few years. Keep it common sense and simple.

I know if there is big changes and all give some, I and numerous others have $700-$1000's of dollar scopes, $500-$1000's of dollar muzzleloaders and $300-$1000's of dollar muzzleloader specific scopes that are useless in the state of Utah. I will be fine with what they change and will help out my son's and family members with the expense of whatever the changes bring, but there is a lot of younger (raising a family type hunters) that this will impact financially, especially in the current time we are all dealing with right now.

Sorry for the rant. Hopefully the DWR will get it right for the long term with some good common sense involved. I do agree it has gotten way out there and could be reeled in to put the HUNT BACK INTO THE HUNT.

Great post

 

[Robiland]

Umm no, I disagree. There was some opposition but not far more support from those against trail cams. That’s a bold statement right there! I listened to public comment and in the end, the wildlife board did what they wanted to do regardless of public opinion, comments, or any concrete evidence to support their decision.

Let’s hope this “technology committee” does not make changes based on knee jerk reactions like it past cases.

This is an interesting comment. If you go back and listen to the meeting, "most" of the people there were against the camera ban. BUT........

If you listened to the one of the board members and he tallied up all the emails and comments, they came out to be pretty even.

AND.........

That meeting was the worst thing that could have happened. It is just like what we see today in everything, people throwing a fit if they dont get their way. The funny thing is, almost every person I talk to that uses cameras, is just fine with what they passed..................... 2 TIMES!!!!!

 

[elkantlers]

Making big changes for archery and muzzleloader will do absolutely nothing for our herds. Nothing.
The only thing limiting archery technology will do is leave a few more animals for the muzzleloader hunters. The only thing limiting the muzzleloader technology will do is leave a few more animals for the rifle hunters who will gladly shoot them up. The result is the same amount of animals getting killed. All this will do is redistribute the success to the next easiest weapon.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Making big changes for archery and muzzleloader will do absolutely nothing for our herds. Nothing.
The only thing limiting archery technology will do is leave a few more animals for the muzzleloader hunters. The only thing limiting the muzzleloader technology will do is leave a few more animals for the rifle hunters who will gladly shoot them up. The result is the same amount of animals getting killed. All this will do is redistribute the success to the next easiest weapon.

For deer I agree with what your saying. Yup it’s just like a domino effect they will just fall back on the next weapon hunt and yes we might save a few here and there. But not many.

As far as LE Elk goes.

A season date structure needs to be put in place and the proper weapons need to be in September period no rifles at all.

 

[Airborne]

Taking into account folks current gear and budget concerns how bout these changes:

Archery--you have to pull back and release the bow string with your fingers. Limits range but everybody gets to keep all their fancy compounds and slider sights. Ya'll still have fingers right?

Muzzleloader--just take off the scopes--that is all

Rifle--if your rifle is chambered for a straight walled cartridge you can use a scope, if your rifle chambered for a bottleneck cartridge then no scopes, open sights only.

There--not too much stuff to buy and your gear still works. Go throw your scope on ebay or use it to look at the stars, aren't they pretty!

Again just brainstorming to see what sticks--not strongly advocating at this time.

And my apologies for slightly derailing the thread regarding LE elk season dates and success rates. I should have stuck with the thread theme

 

[elkantlers]

For deer I agree with what your saying. Yup it’s just like a domino effect they will just fall back on the next weapon hunt and yes we might save a few here and there. But not many.

As far as LE Elk goes.

A season date structure needs to be put in place and the proper weapons need to be in September period no rifles at all.

For elk I would say do a Colorado style system and overlap the archery hunt with the Muzzy hunt. Extend the archery hunt by 7 days and add 50% more permits. Move the muzzleloader hunt (No scope restrictions for this hunt) to the any weapon time slot and give the same number of permits. Move the 1st any weapon hunt to the first of October and decrease the permits by the amount added to the archery hunt. Leave the 2nd any weapon hunt dates where it is with no permit changes. Finally, turn the late any weapon a hunt into a true HAMS hunt and double or triple the permits.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Taking into account folks current gear and budget concerns how bout these changes:

Archery--you have to pull back and release the bow string with your fingers. Limits range but everybody gets to keep all their fancy compounds and slider sights. Ya'll still have fingers right?

Muzzleloader--just take off the scopes--that is all

Rifle--if your rifle is chambered for a straight walled cartridge you can use a scope, if your rifle chambered for a bottleneck cartridge then no scopes, open sights only.

There--not too much stuff to buy and your gear still works. Go throw your scope on ebay or use it to look at the stars, aren't they pretty!

Again just brainstorming to see what sticks--not strongly advocating at this time.

And my apologies for slightly derailing the thread regarding LE elk season dates and success rates. I should have stuck with the thread theme

Not bad and I've shot fingers for years with my compound.

How is all this going to be policed? I bet our game wardens are rolling their eyes.

How about we leave archery off the chopping block this go round. Cams have been chopped and bait has been chopped. Both relative to archery.

Muzzy- back to 1x scopes

Rifles- keep all your tech BS on them but give a 3 day season for all rifle hunts. Keep the elk rut hunt, keep all the other hunts just keep them to 3 day hunts.

 

[Deerlove]

Making big changes for archery and muzzleloader will do absolutely nothing for our herds. Nothing.
The only thing limiting archery technology will do is leave a few more animals for the muzzleloader hunters. The only thing limiting the muzzleloader technology will do is leave a few more animals for the rifle hunters who will gladly shoot them up. The result is the same amount of animals getting killed. All this will do is redistribute the success to the next easiest weapon.

That's why you have to change them all or none at all

 

[grizzly]

How is all this going to be policed? I bet our game wardens are rolling their eyes.

They'll police it the same way they police steel shot for ducks and shotgun plugs for doves. They'll check your equipment when they see you in the field or at check points

 

[roadrunner]

Okay my bad.
I disagree again look at the harvest Success rate on archery then get back to me.
Also remember they do have a month to hunt.
It really isn't that difficult to understand.

Archery is not the same thing and you cannot compare the two. With archery, everything has to be just right since most effective kill ranges that contribute to the success rates they are have to be within 40 yards.

A 100 yd shot with an open sight rifle is a chip shot.

Anyone who thinks that hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle has no real impact on success is fooling themselves...

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Archery is not the same thing and you cannot compare the two. With archery, everything has to be just right since most effective kill ranges that contribute to the success rates they are have to be within 40 yards.

A 100 yd shot with an open sight rifle is a chip shot.

Anyone who thinks that hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle has no real impact on success is fooling themselves...

Hahaha read post 141

 

[slamdunk]

Not bad and I've shot fingers for years with my compound.

How is all this going to be policed? I bet our game wardens are rolling their eyes.

How about we leave archery off the chopping block this go round. Cams have been chopped and bait has been chopped. Both relative to archery.

Muzzy- back to 1x scopes

Rifles- keep all your tech BS on them but give a 3 day season for all rifle hunts. Keep the elk rut hunt, keep all the other hunts just keep them to 3 day hunts.

Lol...."how about we leave archery off the chopping block this time".
Of course you'd suggest that.
Wow, just wow ?

 

[slamdunk]

Not bad and I've shot fingers for years with my compound.

How is all this going to be policed? I bet our game wardens are rolling their eyes.

How about we leave archery off the chopping block this go round. Cams have been chopped and bait has been chopped. Both relative to archery.

Muzzy- back to 1x scopes

Rifles- keep all your tech BS on them but give a 3 day season for all rifle hunts. Keep the elk rut hunt, keep all the other hunts just keep them to 3 day hunts.

Funny you ask, but there are two officers on the committee....

 

[slamdunk]

Not bad and I've shot fingers for years with my compound.

How is all this going to be policed? I bet our game wardens are rolling their eyes.

How about we leave archery off the chopping block this go round. Cams have been chopped and bait has been chopped. Both relative to archery.

Muzzy- back to 1x scopes

Rifles- keep all your tech BS on them but give a 3 day season for all rifle hunts. Keep the elk rut hunt, keep all the other hunts just keep them to 3 day hunts.

For whatever it's worth to you which is absolutely nothing, I voted that you get to keep all your gadgets on your stick flipper knowing that no matter what you bolt on there, it'll still be a "short range" weapon and I respect that.

Having said that, your suggestion to leave them off the chopping block appeals me and really shows your true character.

 

[notdonhunting]

Ok I won't speak for the cat, but this thread is a waste of time. Let me know when they restrict your Lapua to a fixed 6x scope and pull the rifle elk hunt out of the rut, then we can start talking reduced success rates.

Isn't all threads a waste of time.
Don't follow if it is a waste of time for you.

 

[Bigwiffy]

For whatever it's worth to you which is absolutely nothing, I voted that you get to keep all your gadgets on your stick flipper knowing that no matter what you bolt on there, it'll still be a "short range" weapon and I respect that.

Having said that, your suggestion to leave them off the chopping block appeals me and really shows your true character.

Thank you Slam! What did you have to give up? Anything off that Lapua yet? Shows my true character for sacrificing when rifle guys have yet to give up anything! I love it! You're a good dude, keep the rest of those guys in line and pay attention to Randy you might learn something.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Isn't all threads a waste of time.
Don't follow if it is a waste of time for you.

But who would give Slammy a hard time?

 

[ridgetops]

Slam, here's my take.
I'm really having a hard time getting behind the idea of making it harder for someone to kill a big game animal once they choose to pull the trigger. Why are we wanting to set more people up to possibly wound more animals? I personally want more people to cleanly and efficiently kill what they shoot at. The hard part is finding something to put a tag on anyways.

 

[GLEDEASY]

I can agree that tech has its limits. However, our current tech isn't what has created loss of opportunity and decline in herd health like some attest. With that being said I say leave things alone with how they currently are. If we want to get ahead of the curve on the futuristic stuff (thermal, nano, etc that you talk about) then focus your efforts towards that.

What frustrates me isn't that we're trying to search and find answers. It's that the believed answer is being force fed (btw, the scenario isn't uncommon in our world). My thoughts are that the decisions/recommendations have likely already been made. This is more a formality.

I commend you slam for opening this up on a public forum. I had no idea we had such a committee or how the members were selected?

I'm all for creating more opportunity. I might even argue that hunters feel a higher need to fill a tag with decreased opportunity. Creating the new hunt codes such as the HAMS, move season dates, etc. are a few ways.

One thought I have had is why not add general season deer tags that are 4 point or better only? This would get many more people out without affecting overall harvest much.

 

[7remmag]

I’m with Zeke on this one. Limiting technology is not going to increase ? for animal numbers. The reason there were more big bucks back then, is plain and simple, there were more animals. Not because granddaddy didn’t have a 20-60x100mm scope on his .30-30 Winchester. Or a spotting scope/rangefinder to spot the big old buck at 5 miles, then range it, dial, and kill it. Animal numbers, especially deer numbers, are on a steady/drastic decline. We are NEVER going to see the good old days ever again. The sad thing is, these days will be the good old days for some….my kids’ good old days. Very sad.

 

[gundog2]

I am basically in favor of promoting accuracy and skill for hunters to the extent that it helps ensure clean kills. I like having capable weapons and learning how to use them, but there should be limits on the proliferation of new technology. I think it would be reasonable to prohibit use of any smart, self adjusting aiming technology on weapons. I also think it would be reasonable to make recommended limits on shot distances, by species and weapon types, even if these limits are not legally enforced. This would not stop extreme-LR hunting, but it would curb its appeal.

 

[notdonhunting]

But who would give Slammy a hard time?

The problem I have is all you want to do is attack an individual. Many disagree with the point of this thread and many agree with the point of the thread but they keep it about the topic not about the individual.

 

[notdonhunting]

I personally don't know if limiting in the way of technology of hunting weapons will significantly affect the overall deer numbers or even help with increase hunt opportunities I am a strong believer in habitat is the ultimate influencer in game animal numbers. Mother Nature will do what she can to improve habitat in areas that habitat can be improved and in them areas deer numbers probably will improve significantly but some area's because of human influence will probably never really improve by way of habitat or deer numbers.
With all that, I do belive the DWR needs to implement tech laws. We can not allow the capability of weapons to continue to advance to the point the projectile that which comes out of the weapon is satellite guided to the targeted game animal.
I am a Muzeloader hunter and I do support going back to 1x scope or no scope, mostly because I do believe it increased the applicants for the muzeloader hunts which decreased my odds of drawing out. Call me selfish!

 

[Bigwiffy]

The problem I have is all you want to do is attack an individual. Many disagree with the point of this thread and many agree with the point of the thread but they keep it about the topic not about the individual.

Haha Slam is tough and I think can handle a little prodding. It goes both ways and if I ever meet Slam I'm sure he would enjoy a dozen doughnuts with me. He can buy. I appreciate what he does. He puts in a lot of time and is a a reasonable voice. I'll be nicer though, thanks for the feedback.

 

[HikeHunt61]

I had a nightmare last night that this same thing could happen in AZ. I'll admit that I'd be beside myself if that every occurred. I understand the logic behind it- but think the results are nowhere near worth the loss. Keeping new tech out of hunting is one thing- taking away tech that has been used for decades is completely different.

I'm kinda surprised that those opposed to this haven't decided to organize a campaign to head it off. Or maybe something is happening that isn't discussed on this forum. I can only imagine there is significant passion on the parts of many in Utah. I'll bet it has something to do with the pockets of isolation- bow hunters would love to limit rifle hunters, non-muzzy hunters think that tech has gone too far for muzzleloaders, and rifle-only hunters don't have much empathy for the more primitive forms of the sport.

Those divisions will make it easier for the great state of Utah to use the "everyone has to give something up" logic to limit longstanding tech.

I figure if Utah does this, it could spread like some other initiatives do from state to state.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Keeping new tech out of hunting is one thing- taking away tech that has been used for decades is completely different.

Needs and Wants.
The list is so long from 2 decades ago.
We as hunters manage very well to harvest animals years ago and why is that?
Pretty simple in my eyes.
Back then we really put in the time we hunted hard( Now I'm not saying we don't now but it is definitely more laxed) if there was a deer or Elk at 800 yards we new we had to close the Distance before we could make that shot. yes I know people still tried back then but wasn't very successful.
The tech world has made it very easy to be successful with little to no effort we all know it. We are the ones causing this we think we Need it but in reality we Want it so tech world recognizes that and they go to work to give it to us.

We just choose not to believe it because we are giving up what where comfortable with now.

 

[HikeHunt61]

Understood. Tech creeps along and improves hunting odds.

But my main point was that the divisions between types of hunters will inevitably lead to "everyone has to give something up". Maybe your good with that. Or maybe I'm wrong- and they'll just hate on long range hunters. (I'm not one BTW)

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Gotcha
Look at it this way.
We have actual data on success rates. We all know which one leads that category here.
Do I feel the rifle and muzzleloader need it more yes they do. Data shows it period.

Now do I feel archery needs to be regulated absolutely and it can be.
But it really only needs a minor adjustment limit them to 60 yard shots and you can do that very easy.

 

[Vitalwave]

Gotcha
Look at it this way.
We have actual data on success rates. We all know which one leads that category here.
Do I feel the rifle and muzzleloader need it more yes they do. Data shows it period.

Now do I feel archery needs to be regulated absolutely and it can be.
But it really only needs a minor adjustment limit them to 60 yard shots and you can do that very easy.

I think there is a misconception that bow hunters are consistently pulling off 100 yard shots in the field. Maybe my circle of bowhunters aren't up to speed but that is quite the feat. I shoot a slider and have a range finder and not sure I could do that consistently. Targets and field points are one thing but I would say 60 yards is probably closer to the max average lethal distance for the bulk of archery hunters out there.

 

[GLEDEASY]

I think there is a misconception that bow hunters are consistently pulling off 100 yard shots in the field. Maybe my circle of bowhunters aren't up to speed but that is quite the feat. I shoot a slider and have a range finder and not sure I could do that consistently. Targets and field points are one thing but I would say 60 yards is probably closer to the max average lethal distance for the bulk of archery hunters out there.

Can't use real world logic/data. Things need to be granduerized for dramatic effect. Same thing happened with trail cameras. There's an agenda being pushed....period.

 

[gundog2]

Prohibit hunting from blinds or tree stands on waterholes

 

[MrShane]

I keep hearing ‘more hunters in the field’, did I miss something?
I have not heard anyone mention if Utah is increasing the 97K allotment?
I support limitations of weapony as long as it is equal across the board, which Slam has said is happening.
In my mind ‘more opportunity’ to me would be from hunters quitting the sport that just want to be ‘Deer shooters’ and not Deer hunters.
This would come from a percentage that hunt now that are more addicted to the tech than hunting and they drop out and take up golf.
Utah would still only issue the 97K tags but fewer folks would apply for a tag, therefore increasing ‘opportunity’ to hunt.
I, like Assassin, would change my opinion if the tag allotment were to be raised.
Is there talk of issueing more than 97K tags?

 

[elkassassin]

Yes!

They Wanna Issue/Sell More Permits!

Are We Not Already Over Hunting Our Deer Herd?

Continuous & Over-Lapped Hunts Like No Other!

I keep hearing ‘more hunters in the field’, did I miss something?
I have not heard anyone mention if Utah is increasing the 97K allotment?
I support limitations of weapony as long as it is equal across the board, which Slam has said is happening.
In my mind ‘more opportunity’ to me would be from hunters quitting the sport that just want to be ‘Deer shooters’ and not Deer hunters.
This would come from a percentage that hunt now that are more addicted to the tech than hunting and they drop out and take up golf.
Utah would still only issue the 97K tags but fewer folks would apply for a tag, therefore increasing ‘opportunity’ to hunt.
I, like Assassin, would change my opinion if the tag allotment were to be raised.
Is there talk of issueing more than 97K tags?

 

[roadrunner]

Hahaha read post 141

Post 141 didn't say a damn thing...

 

[MrShane]

Yes!

They Wanna Issue/Sell More Permits!

Are We Not Already Over Hunting Our Deer Herd?

Continuous & Over-Lapped Hunts Like No Other!

Is there an official statement that has been made hinting at increasing the allotment up from the current 97K ( not sure of the exact number, but I think it is close)?
I have always believed the State Legislature set the yearly cap, not even the DWR could increase them?
Please educate me.
I want my ‘opportunity’ to increase because I take my hunting very seriously, borderline spiritually.
I want those fence sitters, especially during the application period, to fall off and to the other side of my fence.
If removing some tech is the driving force, so be it.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Post 141 didn't say a damn thing...

?

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Leave archery alone
Leave muzzy alone
Restrict rifle to fixed 6x scope

Only limit the highest success rate weapon if you are trying to limit success....duh.

Been down this road before. I'm with Bess this gets tiresome.

If we are being honest I think we would have to agree with you. Although I would say take the scopes off muzzleloaders as well.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Get rid of rifle hunts altogether. Success rates would plummet. Give out 3 times as many archery Tags. Primitive muzzy only. Problem solved.? pretty extreme I know. However, if we got rid of all rifle tags there's no denying success rates would be so low that we could offer many more hunts with other weapons and still grow big animals have opportunity...

However, I'm really not in favor of this but interesting to think about.

 

[Muley-Man]

Shorten archery season.
1-4x or 3-9x no bdc reticle no adjustable zero turret. power muzzleloader some of us have bad eye site. Win win for everybody just not one or the other.
No electronic rifle scopes. No wind meter. get rid of early rifle hunt cut a few tags.

 

[roadrunner]

Shorten archery season.
1-4x or 3-9x no bdc reticle no adjustable zero turret. power muzzleloader some of us have bad eye site. Win win for everybody just not one or the other.
No electronic rifle scopes. No wind meter. get rid of early rifle hunt cut a few tags.

You forgot, only one fixed pin for bowhunting. Multiple pins is no different than a BDC reticle.