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manny15
Guest
Just wondering if anybody's heard about it, it's a Mel Gibson movie and if there gonna see it next week.....?......
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manny15
Guest
whats a matter afraid of the truth....?......
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Vince (Colorado)
Guest
I'm going to see it for sure. The catholic church has given it great reviews. It's supposed to be pretty accurate, with a little of Mel's interpretation.
The more I find out about Mel, the more I like the Guy. He's done some great work, but doesn't seem to get the credit. The Patriot was a darn good film.
It's funny how the critics can give a thumbs up to something like Pulp Fiction, one of the most violent films ever made, but are commenting on the "unecessary Brutality/Violence" of this film.
Later,
Vince
The more I find out about Mel, the more I like the Guy. He's done some great work, but doesn't seem to get the credit. The Patriot was a darn good film.
It's funny how the critics can give a thumbs up to something like Pulp Fiction, one of the most violent films ever made, but are commenting on the "unecessary Brutality/Violence" of this film.
Later,
Vince
Whats a critics job????. To critisize!!!. I will be very interested in seeing this movie...God went through "hell" for our sins...It's about time we owned up to it. If things were right in this world this movie should be the highest grossing movie of all times....but I doubt it!. Good point Manny!.
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dutch
Guest
I like Mel Gibson as he was the only one with big enough balls to make this movie happen. Hopefully it will make people start thinking a little more.
Hey Dutch:
I don't think it had to do with the size of his nads, so much as the size of his wallet & his extremely religious viewpoint. The guy is kind of a nut when it comes to the whole 'Vadican II' thing.
No doubt that this flick will make people think...
S.
I don't think it had to do with the size of his nads, so much as the size of his wallet & his extremely religious viewpoint. The guy is kind of a nut when it comes to the whole 'Vadican II' thing.
No doubt that this flick will make people think...
S.
I'm in for the movie. As a believer, I know it will be a harsh reality to see what God's son did for us. Its one thing to learn it in Sunday School, quite another to see it in graphic detail. To me, it will be like watching documented history. I'm praying it will stir some hearts, including my own!!
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elk4you
Guest
I will see the movie. From what I've read, it is supposed to be quite accurate. I hope it is.
I don't understand the Jews that are protesting the film. They talk as though nobody has ever known they killed Christ?!?! The same story has been in the same book for thousands of years, and they think more people will be predjudice against Jews now? Not hardly. Without the Jews role in this story none of us would have any hope of eternal life.
Josh
I don't understand the Jews that are protesting the film. They talk as though nobody has ever known they killed Christ?!?! The same story has been in the same book for thousands of years, and they think more people will be predjudice against Jews now? Not hardly. Without the Jews role in this story none of us would have any hope of eternal life.
Josh
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manny15
Guest
I think this movie, weather Mel knew it or not will thrust us into a time of accountability as a Christian nation and may just start an awakening..?..
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Buckrub
Guest
Will it really matter if it creates an awakening? According to the "born agains" they're the only ones go'in to heaven anyway!!! Religion has to be the most confusing and mis-interpreted subject on earth. Everybody thinks their's is the "only way". I just wish people would worship, their own way, QUIETLY, and stop trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else!!!!!
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SoTX
Guest
Oldoregon and elk4you
You guys are exactly right. I watched the making of the movie and it looks fabulous. I will not rush out to see it just because I hate crowds. But I will see it ASAP.
Sure Mel Gibson will make a pile of money off this movie, and why shouldnt he. He is simply doing his trade, and if he happens to be good at it, he should make as much money as possable.
From what I have seen this should be a great movie.
"We must HUNT"
You guys are exactly right. I watched the making of the movie and it looks fabulous. I will not rush out to see it just because I hate crowds. But I will see it ASAP.
Sure Mel Gibson will make a pile of money off this movie, and why shouldnt he. He is simply doing his trade, and if he happens to be good at it, he should make as much money as possable.
From what I have seen this should be a great movie.
"We must HUNT"
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-04 AT 12:19PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-04 AT 11:46?AM (MST)
... and yet so many people fail to see the truth of it. If i want to go to heaven, I cant just decide that I am going. I Believe that to get to heaven you must have a firm belief in Jesus Christ, his sacrifice on the cross, and his death and resurection. I think that is why this movie will be so great. It might help people to understand that simply believing in God will not get you to heaven (even the devil believes in God). But that you must have a personal relationship with Christ.
Later Yall!!!!
... and yet so many people fail to see the truth of it. If i want to go to heaven, I cant just decide that I am going. I Believe that to get to heaven you must have a firm belief in Jesus Christ, his sacrifice on the cross, and his death and resurection. I think that is why this movie will be so great. It might help people to understand that simply believing in God will not get you to heaven (even the devil believes in God). But that you must have a personal relationship with Christ.
Later Yall!!!!
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SoTX
Guest
10-4 Brother
"We must HUNT"
"We must HUNT"
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RuttCrazed
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-04 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]Old Oregan,
Let's say a person has lived a good, clean life and dies without ever setting foot in a church -- are they going to heaven?? If not where do they go?
Rut
Let's say a person has lived a good, clean life and dies without ever setting foot in a church -- are they going to heaven?? If not where do they go?
Rut
Rut,
Did this person ask Jesus to be their life? Did he/she walk and talk with the Lord? Did they spread the word of God to others so that they might know him also? I don't believe that one can get to heaven by being a "good person" It's takes more than that.
My wife and I are taking our high school youth group. 80 Kids!!!
jeremy, mulino oregon
Did this person ask Jesus to be their life? Did he/she walk and talk with the Lord? Did they spread the word of God to others so that they might know him also? I don't believe that one can get to heaven by being a "good person" It's takes more than that.
My wife and I are taking our high school youth group. 80 Kids!!!
jeremy, mulino oregon
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manny15
Guest
I would like to salut you oldoregon, quite a bit of wisdom there Bro. well said.....
(p.s) What city you near.....
(p.s) What city you near.....
I'm with Buckrub on this!
I chose not to believe, but I dont care if others do. Most of my family are believers. Just dont force it down my throat! The "Bible" has some good guidelines for life, but saying that I am damned because I will not surrender my "soul" to some fictional being is rediculous. I dont want to get into a fight about this but I do respect others right to believe what they want, just dont expect me to
I've said enough
Eric
I chose not to believe, but I dont care if others do. Most of my family are believers. Just dont force it down my throat! The "Bible" has some good guidelines for life, but saying that I am damned because I will not surrender my "soul" to some fictional being is rediculous. I dont want to get into a fight about this but I do respect others right to believe what they want, just dont expect me to
I've said enough
Eric
you dont have to give your soul to anyone. you simply hve to believe that christ sacrificed himself on the cross for you. thats all there is too it. no being good, or going to church involved. God forgives us no matter what you do. there are many people in heaven who never set foot in a church. there are murderers in heaven, there are aldulterers in heaven, there are liars, cheaters, gays, you-name-it in heaven.
I believe that is the reason mel made this movie, so people would relieze that it is by gods goodness that we are saved, not by us being little goody-two-shoes. grace means being forgiving when we have done nothing to deserve it, and God did it anyway!
Later Yall!!!!
I believe that is the reason mel made this movie, so people would relieze that it is by gods goodness that we are saved, not by us being little goody-two-shoes. grace means being forgiving when we have done nothing to deserve it, and God did it anyway!
Later Yall!!!!
oldoregon, You are right on!!!. A really good example of God's forgiveness is when he is on the cross next to the two thieves. One thief prays to Jesus asking for forgiveness and Jesus forgives him and grants him entry to heaven. All I ever ask of anyone is to keep an open mind let Jesus be a part of your life...Deeds will not get you to heaven!!!. Belief in our lord Jesus Christ as your savior will.
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sampson
Guest
Old Oregon, I have given you some flak for some of the things that you have said in your posts in the past, but you are right on the money concerning this subject.
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kidneystone
Guest
Hitler and Jeffrey Dahlmer believed, oldoregon. In fact they acted on that belief. The thought that they will make it to heaven just as easily as me just because they believed is discouraging. I could have had a lot more fun these 30+ years had I known my behavor didn't matter.
Jude says:
"He will bring the people of the world to judgement. He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things they have done in rebellion and of all...
Mathew 13:36
"And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then, either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."
Do you not need to ask for forgiveness when sins are committied?
1 John 1:9
"If you say we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and refusing to accept the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts."
I could go on and on.....
"He will bring the people of the world to judgement. He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things they have done in rebellion and of all...
Mathew 13:36
"And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then, either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."
Do you not need to ask for forgiveness when sins are committied?
1 John 1:9
"If you say we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and refusing to accept the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts."
I could go on and on.....
that is a sobering thought isnt it. God loves us so very much that he would forgive us anyways. To think that those two could be in heaven is testament to the fact of gods goodness. He is willing to forgive even dictators and murdurers. Those two evil men definatly deserve to go to hell, but that is the bueaty of it, God is willing to forgive them. Being a christian does not mean going to church, being good, not cussing, and not drinking. Being a christian means you have a relationship with christ. Hence the name "Christian." There is nothing we can do to deserve eternal life, but god gave it to us inspite of ourselves. I cuss, I drink, I skip church, i have promisuous sex, but that doent meAn i am not going to heaven. If gaining etarnal life was up to us, no one, and I mean NO ONE, would be good enough to go. WE ALL SIN, and not a one of deserves heaven. ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. but. IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH AND BELIEVE WITH YOUR HEART, THEN YOU ARE SAVED.
Later Yall!!!!
Later Yall!!!!
C
chinochief
Guest
I saw the movie last night here in Arizona and was completely blown away by it. The movie was excellent. It was a bit graphic at times but they did a good job of making it stick in your head. I have never seen an audience so fixated on watching a movie. I am kind of like polarbear on this one, I come from a family of believers but I do not attend church. My two brothers do not attend church either and feel the same way I do. I do not attend because I have witnessed horrifying corruption and hipocracy in the church. My father is a pastor and I have been around religion my entire life. Never have I seen such lying and fasads and people who act one way but try to appear as another than in the church. I know that it is unfair of me to judge the whole church because there really are some wonderful people that I have met in church, but I cannot stand liars and hipocrites. It seems that lately the so called "christians" that I have met profess their christianity but lead a life that only the devil would approve of. If you are going to say you are a christian then have the balls to set a GOOD example for others and don't just try to hide behind the name of the church. All you end up doing is turning people away by being a "jack" christian. I do not mean to offend any believers out there-that was not my intent, I just wanted to share what I have experienced. I truly would like to be a believer again but I never forgive liars and hipocrites and can't stand to be in the same room with them. It is my personal choice not to attend and it is too bad that a few bad apples have to ruin the whole bunch like they ruined it for me. Getting back to the movie though I was very moved by it and would recommend it to all you guys to watch. Watch it with an open mind and heart. Jesus must have really loved us to go through that torture and give up his own life.
ChinoChief:
I have not seen the movie, but plan on it soon. Remember one thing. Hypocrytes are everywhere, and not just in the church. Once people are saved, that doesn't mean that they will be anything close to perfection. I hate that bumper sticker that says" Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven". Its not about being perfect. Jesus was the only perfect person who ever walked the earth, and he layed it all down for us. Please don't deny a relationship with your God to be based on Christian behavior beacuse thats not what it is about. Its about a relationship
that Christ wants to have in all of our lives. Thanks for a good post and your honesty. I pray that you will be drawn to Christ thru the movie and by the calling of the spirit.
Bryan
I have not seen the movie, but plan on it soon. Remember one thing. Hypocrytes are everywhere, and not just in the church. Once people are saved, that doesn't mean that they will be anything close to perfection. I hate that bumper sticker that says" Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven". Its not about being perfect. Jesus was the only perfect person who ever walked the earth, and he layed it all down for us. Please don't deny a relationship with your God to be based on Christian behavior beacuse thats not what it is about. Its about a relationship
that Christ wants to have in all of our lives. Thanks for a good post and your honesty. I pray that you will be drawn to Christ thru the movie and by the calling of the spirit.
Bryan
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manny15
Guest
Kool stuff guy's, I'm leaving right now to go see it, all I can say for now is we have lost the gravity of what Jesus did on the cross, we've seen all the past Jesus movies and have grown somewhat cold to the crucifixion of our Lord and Savior, this movie will change a lot of minds, as far as hypocrites go where ever the real is the fake shows up also, but we will have to answer for ourselves not some one else.......
?Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?
?For all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account?
?Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?
?For all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account?
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kidneystone
Guest
Oldoregon:
Let me make sure I understand you correctly. If I simply confess with words and mentally believe I will make it back to heaven with God? No matter what I do?
Before I join your church, I would like to understand the theology behind it. Maybe you could clarify.
1. What is the point to earth life? If our actions don't matter beyond belief and declaration why bother sending us here?
2. What happens to a person that lives a very righteous life, serves others, is kind and generous, obeys the laws, etc. but never even learns of Jesus, much less declares his name? Does he go to hell?
Let me make sure I understand you correctly. If I simply confess with words and mentally believe I will make it back to heaven with God? No matter what I do?
Before I join your church, I would like to understand the theology behind it. Maybe you could clarify.
1. What is the point to earth life? If our actions don't matter beyond belief and declaration why bother sending us here?
2. What happens to a person that lives a very righteous life, serves others, is kind and generous, obeys the laws, etc. but never even learns of Jesus, much less declares his name? Does he go to hell?
Kidneystone
That is the part I do not understand. A person lives his or her life as a good upstanding citizen but is damed because they have not taken Jesus into their hearts? I had a girlfriend that was, lets be honest, a "party girl". She drank heavily, smoked, did drugs, F-ed around, etc... I got fed up with it and dumped her. That week she went out and got knocked up. You would have thought that she was carying the baby Jesus in her woumb. All of a sudden she found religion and now I was going to hell because I didnt believe and that I played heavy metal music in a band. I dont get it. I have never done drugs of any kind, havent had a drinking problem etc... I have led a pretty clean and straight life but I was the one going to hell, not her. Someone please explain this to me how this is supposed to be concidered just.
Eric
That is the part I do not understand. A person lives his or her life as a good upstanding citizen but is damed because they have not taken Jesus into their hearts? I had a girlfriend that was, lets be honest, a "party girl". She drank heavily, smoked, did drugs, F-ed around, etc... I got fed up with it and dumped her. That week she went out and got knocked up. You would have thought that she was carying the baby Jesus in her woumb. All of a sudden she found religion and now I was going to hell because I didnt believe and that I played heavy metal music in a band. I dont get it. I have never done drugs of any kind, havent had a drinking problem etc... I have led a pretty clean and straight life but I was the one going to hell, not her. Someone please explain this to me how this is supposed to be concidered just.
Eric
None of us know who is and who isn't going to heaven. Only we can decide whether we go to heaven or not. We will all be judged someday for the life we lived BUT that does not determine your eternity...God will decide that based on your belief in him. People can judge each other all they want that is not going to determine your fate. We are not suppose to judge each other but we are humane and bound to do ungodly things.
Live a good and honest life, Do the right things, but most of all find God... This time you have on earth is a very short time compared to Eternity after this life.
Let me put it to you this way.....If I'm right I will spend eternity with God in heaven. A place that is perfect, No hate, No killing, no child abuse, no crimes against anyone. Could it be any better???. IF YOUR WRONG???. Think about it!!!
Live a good and honest life, Do the right things, but most of all find God... This time you have on earth is a very short time compared to Eternity after this life.
Let me put it to you this way.....If I'm right I will spend eternity with God in heaven. A place that is perfect, No hate, No killing, no child abuse, no crimes against anyone. Could it be any better???. IF YOUR WRONG???. Think about it!!!
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Buckrub
Guest
Kingfish, I respect your faith, but, I have sooo many question marks that hinder my attempts at a faith , such as yours. W/o expounding on the demise of organized religion in our present society, how about what we are historically lead to believe? Christ was indeed the ultimate prophet, however, John the Baptist was performing pretty much at the same level, until they be-headed him. Also, crucifixion was the "favored" method of punishment and are we to believe that many others didn't receive the same horrible fate? Just as the powers-to-be "railroaded" Christ, for his "rebel actions", didn't they kinda inflict their wills on anyone who preached a different doctrine from theirs'? Finally, how about the Bible, itself? Written by men, who drank wine much the way we drink water and everytime something is re-written or interpreted it is embellished from the interpretor's OWN perspective, time and time again. Then the Theologians decide that's not how it was supposed to be interpreted and change it all over again. What's real, what to trust, what to believe!! I hope you are right!! Oh, one final point, on a lighterside, if there's No Kill'in in Heaven, there must not be any Hunting!! If that's the case, I don't wanna go !!!
i do nt know who is going to heaven or not. i am not god. i just know what i have read in the bible. we all know what john 3:16 says: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believs in him shall not perish but have everlating life!
Later Yall!!!!
Later Yall!!!!
B
bldgr10
Guest
I strongly agree with Kingfish. You must try to live a good, honest life with a belief in God. Everybody, no matter how hard they try, sins. We are only human.
In the end, we will have to answer for our actions. One question. Some of the churches out there will have you to believe that you must become "born again" in order to be accepted into heaven. Does this mean that people on the level of Sadam Hussein, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, etc., who commit horrific crimes, will be granted into heaven if, while in prison, they are "born again" while someone who lives a decent, honest, hard working life, and believes in God, but who never becomes "born again" will not?
I will be taking my son to see this movie. I believe it will be able to show him, in a way I could never explain, the true sacrifice Jesus made for us.
In the end, we will have to answer for our actions. One question. Some of the churches out there will have you to believe that you must become "born again" in order to be accepted into heaven. Does this mean that people on the level of Sadam Hussein, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, etc., who commit horrific crimes, will be granted into heaven if, while in prison, they are "born again" while someone who lives a decent, honest, hard working life, and believes in God, but who never becomes "born again" will not?
I will be taking my son to see this movie. I believe it will be able to show him, in a way I could never explain, the true sacrifice Jesus made for us.
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bldgr10
Guest
Buckrub,
There might not be any killing in heaven, but think of the shed hunting possibilities........
There might not be any killing in heaven, but think of the shed hunting possibilities........
if you believe that you don't need to accept christ to get to heaven, then why do you consider what christ did on the cross a "sacrifice." I firmly believe in God, you will read the bible, and if you do so, you will find that you cannot get to heaven without believing in christ. ...I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me... For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life...
Later Yall!!!!
Later Yall!!!!
bldgr10, I believe anyone can find Christ!!!. I also beleive God can forgive anyone for anything....The key is faith..If you are not a true believer you won't fool God. I have often said God must have a great sense of humor???. He created us and gave us this beautiful world to live in and all we do is destroy it!!!.
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Buckrub
Guest
Certainly, GOD created this world and he also gave man free will to choose his direction, but he is still the master puppeteer and pulls the "strings" as he sees fit. How else do you explain the horrific tragedies that we endure (i.e. twin towers, the shuddle crash, etc.). Early on in biblical times, men would cut the throats of lambs to offer sacrifice to GOD. Now we worship in a more civilized manner, but by whose standards, GOD'S or man's ??? I submit that "organized religion" is the child of man and not GOD. It's all about control and of course, MONEY !!!!
i have to agree with you somewhat. But the church was instituted by God. But we have made it into something that god may not be pleased with. I worship God on a personal level, and i have a personal relationship with him. Jesus Christ is my closest friend. but i do attend church, because i enjoy being with people who share my beliefs, and i like to learn about the bible. I also like being held accountable for my actions.
Later Yall!!!!
Later Yall!!!!
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bldgr10
Guest
oldoregon,
Please don't misunderstand me. I too have a deep belief in God. I try my best to follow the teachings of Christ. After thinking about it, I can see how someone as evil as those mentioned can and should be forgiven at their final judgment. In my profession, I see every day the violent and cruel acts that people commit against each other. Thanks for setting me straight.
Please don't misunderstand me. I too have a deep belief in God. I try my best to follow the teachings of Christ. After thinking about it, I can see how someone as evil as those mentioned can and should be forgiven at their final judgment. In my profession, I see every day the violent and cruel acts that people commit against each other. Thanks for setting me straight.
K
kidneystone
Guest
oldoregon, Why should I be "good", then?
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,075
It is exciting to see everyone in this thread responding with heartfelt, thoughful posts! I tip my cap to you all. I saw the film this evening, with my wife of 19 years, and a packed movie theatre. No previews, no ads for the snackbar. Just douse the lights and roll the movie. I have to tell you, I've NEVER experienced a 2 hour block of time simply vanish. It was as if the movie started and then it ended. In between are 120 minutes of extremely intense depictions of the Gospels' accounts
of Christ's final 12 hours in human form. IMO, the film is powerful in all the ways a follower of Christ would expect it to be. As a film, it's cinematography is beautiful, the musical score haunting, the editing that transitions from one scene to the other is seamless, and the acting is first-rate.
Rather than having the discussion become bogged down by the "My way is the only way" declaration, I encourage everyone to recall the scripture that states "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and to remember that Jesus said "...the greatest of these is love." Most faiths, religions, & denominations would be best served by celebrating their similarities rather than striving over their differences. What I'll take away from the film "The Passion of the Christ" is that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of which is unseen. Hopefully, a generation of people all over the globe, people who struggle to find or make time to share a daily devotional with the Lord in prayer and reading of His Word, will be inspired by this film to ponder the gift that God gave to each one of us in the form of His Son.
God bless all of you.
of Christ's final 12 hours in human form. IMO, the film is powerful in all the ways a follower of Christ would expect it to be. As a film, it's cinematography is beautiful, the musical score haunting, the editing that transitions from one scene to the other is seamless, and the acting is first-rate.
Rather than having the discussion become bogged down by the "My way is the only way" declaration, I encourage everyone to recall the scripture that states "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and to remember that Jesus said "...the greatest of these is love." Most faiths, religions, & denominations would be best served by celebrating their similarities rather than striving over their differences. What I'll take away from the film "The Passion of the Christ" is that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of which is unseen. Hopefully, a generation of people all over the globe, people who struggle to find or make time to share a daily devotional with the Lord in prayer and reading of His Word, will be inspired by this film to ponder the gift that God gave to each one of us in the form of His Son.
God bless all of you.
Phantom Hunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,103
Got to watch the movie last night. AWESOME. I have never been to a movie where the only sounds were from the screen, both during and after the film. It made everyone who saw it think about thier own relationship with God. I encourage everyone to go see the movie and then have a serious talk with yourself and God about your own salvation. I know, I plan on making some changes in my relationship with God in the next few weeks.
Phantom Hunter
Phantom Hunter
My 2 cents.
The way I read the bible is good people won't go to heaven unless they are saved. We are all born in to sin and need to be saved to have a relationship with God.
In Acts Chapter 2 verses 37 to 41 -- the people asked what they must we do to be saved. Peter answered: Repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins.
Then after that when you sin the blood of Jesus forgives you of your sins.
BT
The way I read the bible is good people won't go to heaven unless they are saved. We are all born in to sin and need to be saved to have a relationship with God.
In Acts Chapter 2 verses 37 to 41 -- the people asked what they must we do to be saved. Peter answered: Repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins.
Then after that when you sin the blood of Jesus forgives you of your sins.
BT
W
Wildman
Guest
Just a point of doctrine. It is my understanding that the majority of the worlds sins were taken upon Him in the Garden of Gethsemane where he bled from every pore. This was before he was crucified on the cross and is what seperates Him from others who were crucified.
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Wildman
Guest
Just my two cents about all this.
I went on a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) for two years- now don't be jumping to conclusions.
I admit that there were both pros and cons about the whole experience. But one of the pros is that you get to spend a significant amount of time studying the gospel.
I was in the Washington D.C. area and was up to my eyeballs every day in the grace vs. works debate. After two years of listening to it all, the only conclusion that I could say for sure was that those who feel like they lead "good lives" tend to use the works issue to make themselves feel good, and those who "know they could do better" use the grace issue to make themselves feel better.
In the end I didn't feel like either side was totally right on their own.
So, my two cents.
It is my belief that the whole purpose of the gospel is to elevate us humans above our current level of behavior. The major element preventing us from getting there is that we're to arrogant to listen.
The reason that the thief on the cross could go to heaven is that he finally humbled himself to the point where he was willing to listen to what he needed to learn.
The reason that even good people need Christ is that as good as good is, it is not perfect.
In my mind it is like a map. You have a really good hunter and a really poor hunter, and they both have been told of a honey hole by a mutual aquaintance. The friend gives both of them a map, but the really good hunter thinks he can find the spot on his own. So he throws the map into the tent and takes off. (Now I know that some of you are saying that anyone who leaves their map in the tent is not a good hunter, but let's just say that that's his only weakness.) Anyway, the poor hunter realizes that there is no way in ell that he is going to find the spot without following the map, so he studies it in detail before leaving.
As the good hunter hikes up the mountain, he realizes that things don't look quite like he thought they would. He makes a wrong turn and doesn't find the spot.
The poor hunter follows the map and although it takes awhile he finally gets there.
When he gets there he discovers that the friend also gave a map to the spot to a third guy. The third guy was a great hunter, but he was also smart enough to follow the map.
The real nice thing is that this is such a good honey hole that their are enough monster muleys for anybody who is willing to follow the directions to get there.
Meanwhile back at camp, the good hunter who left his map in the tent has found the map and is getting ready to give it another shot. Unless today is the last day of the hunt, he can follow the directions and probably get there to.
Then there is the fourth guy who just plain refuses to look at the map claiming, "if there's a honey hole that good in these mountains, then I'll find it by myself." He spends season after season looking for it, but he never finds it.
"I am the way, the truth and the light. No man cometh unto the father but by me." John 14:7- I think. Damn Mormons don't know their Bible.
I went on a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) for two years- now don't be jumping to conclusions.
I admit that there were both pros and cons about the whole experience. But one of the pros is that you get to spend a significant amount of time studying the gospel.
I was in the Washington D.C. area and was up to my eyeballs every day in the grace vs. works debate. After two years of listening to it all, the only conclusion that I could say for sure was that those who feel like they lead "good lives" tend to use the works issue to make themselves feel good, and those who "know they could do better" use the grace issue to make themselves feel better.
In the end I didn't feel like either side was totally right on their own.
So, my two cents.
It is my belief that the whole purpose of the gospel is to elevate us humans above our current level of behavior. The major element preventing us from getting there is that we're to arrogant to listen.
The reason that the thief on the cross could go to heaven is that he finally humbled himself to the point where he was willing to listen to what he needed to learn.
The reason that even good people need Christ is that as good as good is, it is not perfect.
In my mind it is like a map. You have a really good hunter and a really poor hunter, and they both have been told of a honey hole by a mutual aquaintance. The friend gives both of them a map, but the really good hunter thinks he can find the spot on his own. So he throws the map into the tent and takes off. (Now I know that some of you are saying that anyone who leaves their map in the tent is not a good hunter, but let's just say that that's his only weakness.) Anyway, the poor hunter realizes that there is no way in ell that he is going to find the spot without following the map, so he studies it in detail before leaving.
As the good hunter hikes up the mountain, he realizes that things don't look quite like he thought they would. He makes a wrong turn and doesn't find the spot.
The poor hunter follows the map and although it takes awhile he finally gets there.
When he gets there he discovers that the friend also gave a map to the spot to a third guy. The third guy was a great hunter, but he was also smart enough to follow the map.
The real nice thing is that this is such a good honey hole that their are enough monster muleys for anybody who is willing to follow the directions to get there.
Meanwhile back at camp, the good hunter who left his map in the tent has found the map and is getting ready to give it another shot. Unless today is the last day of the hunt, he can follow the directions and probably get there to.
Then there is the fourth guy who just plain refuses to look at the map claiming, "if there's a honey hole that good in these mountains, then I'll find it by myself." He spends season after season looking for it, but he never finds it.
"I am the way, the truth and the light. No man cometh unto the father but by me." John 14:7- I think. Damn Mormons don't know their Bible.
O
Oregon Fishing Guide
Guest
Hey Everyone,
This is one of the most intriging posts I have seen on MM. I haven't been on here for a while and I see this. It is great. I wanted to put my 2 bits in. I took my family to the movie and it was incredible and to imagine that the crucifixion was even so much worse then that. After being in slavery and persecuted like the Jews were for so many thousands of years they sure were not looking for a Savior that was going to love everyone. They wanted a warrior to rescue them. One that was going to kick butt on the Roman government. They were so angry that Jesus would make the claim that He is God. Like "I am the forgiver of sin" "I am the Son of Man" "I am the Son of God" "I am a King but not of this World" and Jesus went on and on. To a person now days those claims are no big deal but to a Jew in those days they knew without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was claiming to be God. Now we at this generation have to decide was Jesus telling the truth of lying. If he was lying then nothing matter and we can do what ever we want becasue who is to determine right or wrong. If is is tell the truth who he is then everything matters. We have to decide that ourselves. There is a good book called "A case for Christ" It talks about all the historical facts about Christ. If we forget about what the Bible says for a second, we find that we have more historical facts written about Jesus then George Washington.
I think some of these questions about the Christian faith by some of you are great. I used to ask the same questions and I had to come to a conclusion of who I think Jesus is and then act upon it. When Jesus sent all of his disciples out and then talked to them later he asked them one question. It wasn't "what day did they worship on?" or "what clothes did they wear?" or "what church did they go to?" He asked "who do people say I am" one disciples said some believe you are Elijah one said another person and then one said another person. Most people didn't get it. Then Jesus asked who do you say I am? Peter said You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said you are right. See, that is all that matters. We have to get who Jesus is, right. If we do that in our hearts and minds then we will want to do the things he asks but before that it is just works.
Okay I will get off my excitment of this thread. Good luck with your desicions. Jon
This is one of the most intriging posts I have seen on MM. I haven't been on here for a while and I see this. It is great. I wanted to put my 2 bits in. I took my family to the movie and it was incredible and to imagine that the crucifixion was even so much worse then that. After being in slavery and persecuted like the Jews were for so many thousands of years they sure were not looking for a Savior that was going to love everyone. They wanted a warrior to rescue them. One that was going to kick butt on the Roman government. They were so angry that Jesus would make the claim that He is God. Like "I am the forgiver of sin" "I am the Son of Man" "I am the Son of God" "I am a King but not of this World" and Jesus went on and on. To a person now days those claims are no big deal but to a Jew in those days they knew without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was claiming to be God. Now we at this generation have to decide was Jesus telling the truth of lying. If he was lying then nothing matter and we can do what ever we want becasue who is to determine right or wrong. If is is tell the truth who he is then everything matters. We have to decide that ourselves. There is a good book called "A case for Christ" It talks about all the historical facts about Christ. If we forget about what the Bible says for a second, we find that we have more historical facts written about Jesus then George Washington.
I think some of these questions about the Christian faith by some of you are great. I used to ask the same questions and I had to come to a conclusion of who I think Jesus is and then act upon it. When Jesus sent all of his disciples out and then talked to them later he asked them one question. It wasn't "what day did they worship on?" or "what clothes did they wear?" or "what church did they go to?" He asked "who do people say I am" one disciples said some believe you are Elijah one said another person and then one said another person. Most people didn't get it. Then Jesus asked who do you say I am? Peter said You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said you are right. See, that is all that matters. We have to get who Jesus is, right. If we do that in our hearts and minds then we will want to do the things he asks but before that it is just works.
Okay I will get off my excitment of this thread. Good luck with your desicions. Jon
P
pinenut
Guest
"Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence. It is letting the reigns go, to the unfolding, its faith, faith, faith."
"Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing."
"Swimming through this void we finally hear the Word. We then lose ourselves but we find it all."
"What we do in this lifetime leaves ripples throughout eternity."
"Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing."
"Swimming through this void we finally hear the Word. We then lose ourselves but we find it all."
"What we do in this lifetime leaves ripples throughout eternity."
Man, I can't believe I'm digging this up, but I was bored, and am really disapointed that I missed this thread.
Some of you ask..."Why should I be good", or "What's the point to life on earth?"
Well, I say that God loves us sooo much, that he gave us the right to choose our own path. If we CHOOSE to love him, it means soo much more than it would if he made us love him. How would you feel if you had a hunting dog that lived to please you? Or if you had one that reluctantly obeyed you?...Which one would you feel better about?
Also, you say that God is pulling the strings as he chooses... Why would things like 9/11 happen?... What happened after 9/11? The nation pulled together in Christ, and everybody stopped, and realized that we should start to build up our relationships w/ eachother. Yeah, it was a tragedy, but I bet just because you saw no good that came from it, doesn't mean that thousands of other people around the world/nation didn't get something from it.
Also, you say that Hitler was a believer (or something to that extent). I say not true! Hitler was one of the biggest Evoulustionists in the world! He believed that the Germans were the "Evolutionary Climax"-so to speak, and that every other race was just "inferior".
Also, you ask, "So if Hitler, and Ted Bundy...etc later in life repent for their sins, they get to go to heaven?". Think about it. If you had a huge family (lots of children), and you loved each and everyone of them, and had no favorites. Lets say that one boy leads a very immoral and dangerous life. IE: Drugs, Sex, Drug dealer, mayber even killed somebody. Would you love him any less? What if he all the sudden decided he wanted to make a change in his life? To have a new start? Or to begin a new "life"? (hence the word "Born Again") Would you forgive him, and give him a second chance? Our God and Judge is a God of second chances.
OldOregon, I really appreciate ur support on this. It really says a lot for you.
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
Some of you ask..."Why should I be good", or "What's the point to life on earth?"
Well, I say that God loves us sooo much, that he gave us the right to choose our own path. If we CHOOSE to love him, it means soo much more than it would if he made us love him. How would you feel if you had a hunting dog that lived to please you? Or if you had one that reluctantly obeyed you?...Which one would you feel better about?
Also, you say that God is pulling the strings as he chooses... Why would things like 9/11 happen?... What happened after 9/11? The nation pulled together in Christ, and everybody stopped, and realized that we should start to build up our relationships w/ eachother. Yeah, it was a tragedy, but I bet just because you saw no good that came from it, doesn't mean that thousands of other people around the world/nation didn't get something from it.
Also, you say that Hitler was a believer (or something to that extent). I say not true! Hitler was one of the biggest Evoulustionists in the world! He believed that the Germans were the "Evolutionary Climax"-so to speak, and that every other race was just "inferior".
Also, you ask, "So if Hitler, and Ted Bundy...etc later in life repent for their sins, they get to go to heaven?". Think about it. If you had a huge family (lots of children), and you loved each and everyone of them, and had no favorites. Lets say that one boy leads a very immoral and dangerous life. IE: Drugs, Sex, Drug dealer, mayber even killed somebody. Would you love him any less? What if he all the sudden decided he wanted to make a change in his life? To have a new start? Or to begin a new "life"? (hence the word "Born Again") Would you forgive him, and give him a second chance? Our God and Judge is a God of second chances.
OldOregon, I really appreciate ur support on this. It really says a lot for you.
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
M
manny15
Guest
I see that some one was paying attention in Bible class...LOL...
Really I apreciate the points you brought out here MichaelJ, I think I'm gonna cut & past 'em for future ref...Thanks Manny'...
oh by the way I just got ordained today...pretty kool...I might change my screen name to preacher...LOL...
Really I apreciate the points you brought out here MichaelJ, I think I'm gonna cut & past 'em for future ref...Thanks Manny'...
oh by the way I just got ordained today...pretty kool...I might change my screen name to preacher...LOL...
M
manny15
Guest
>Congrats preacher!!!. Very cool.
thanks.....Kind of weird huh...LOL...
thanks.....Kind of weird huh...LOL...
Manny, hey thanks. It really seeps in when you grow up and you dad's a pastor for the first 15 years of your life. He decided to step down last year because of personnal issues, and people being people.
I haven't been to Church in quite awhile, but some of the best times I've spent w/ God is hunting. You can't help but feel closer to him, and wonder at his creation.
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
I haven't been to Church in quite awhile, but some of the best times I've spent w/ God is hunting. You can't help but feel closer to him, and wonder at his creation.
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
M
manny15
Guest
>Manny, hey thanks. It really
>seeps in when you grow
>up and you dad's a
>pastor for the first 15
>years of your life.
>He decided to step down
>last year because of personnal
>issues, and people being people.
>
>
>I haven't been to Church in
>quite awhile, but some of
>the best times I've spent
>w/ God is hunting.
>You can't help but feel
>closer to him, and wonder
>at his creation.
>
>Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next
>to the mashed potatoes and
>gravy.
mike'
you don't have to explain the "people being people thing" I know exactly what you mean, ungrateful people can be brutal!.. hope your dads doing o.k he just needs to find a group of people who can appreciate him and his gifts...
I think it was while out hunting as a kid when I decided to search for God only to find out he was looking for me already...
>seeps in when you grow
>up and you dad's a
>pastor for the first 15
>years of your life.
>He decided to step down
>last year because of personnal
>issues, and people being people.
>
>
>I haven't been to Church in
>quite awhile, but some of
>the best times I've spent
>w/ God is hunting.
>You can't help but feel
>closer to him, and wonder
>at his creation.
>
>Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next
>to the mashed potatoes and
>gravy.
mike'
you don't have to explain the "people being people thing" I know exactly what you mean, ungrateful people can be brutal!.. hope your dads doing o.k he just needs to find a group of people who can appreciate him and his gifts...
I think it was while out hunting as a kid when I decided to search for God only to find out he was looking for me already...
>I think it was while out
>hunting as a kid when
>I decided to search for
>God only to find out
>he was looking for me
>already...
Couldn't of said it better myself! Yeah, people suck! hehe JK. Everything is good now, and he's got a good job, and we're doing better, but there's still the question of money....
One thing I have to say to all you who are undecided about Christianity...Do you really want to risk the rest of ETERNITY on denying God? Once you die, there's two places you go. Hell, and Heaven. Hell is UTTER LONELINESS... You are ALONE FOREVER. I'm not trying to scare you into Christianity because it has to be a decision made w/ the heart. But if you choose to reject God in this life, you end up getting your wish, and you are without all his creation for the rest of Eternity... Just think about it. ETERNITY....
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
>hunting as a kid when
>I decided to search for
>God only to find out
>he was looking for me
>already...
Couldn't of said it better myself! Yeah, people suck! hehe JK. Everything is good now, and he's got a good job, and we're doing better, but there's still the question of money....
One thing I have to say to all you who are undecided about Christianity...Do you really want to risk the rest of ETERNITY on denying God? Once you die, there's two places you go. Hell, and Heaven. Hell is UTTER LONELINESS... You are ALONE FOREVER. I'm not trying to scare you into Christianity because it has to be a decision made w/ the heart. But if you choose to reject God in this life, you end up getting your wish, and you are without all his creation for the rest of Eternity... Just think about it. ETERNITY....
Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
C
cpsandman
Guest
New to the neighborhood and just found this thread and have enjoyed what has been said. Bottom line is you are all good people, now help someone else. We are here to serve, that is what Chirst did. Now for my 2 cents on religion which I did not notice in the previous posts and I appoligize if I missed something and this is repetitive:
1. We require something to get to heaven, baptism. Christ taught us this. We can't just believe and hope it all turns out. He was perfect yet was still required to be baptized.
2. If we require baptism to get to heaven, who has the authority to baptize? One religion says they do, another says they do. I know you are waiting for me to answer this question or tell you what religion I believe has the authority but I won't. I will instead go to my 3rd and last point.
3. PRAY! Get on your knees, humble yourself before your maker and ask with a SINCERE HEART which religion has the authority to act in His name and he will answer you. I have asked and received a witness that I can't describe but I know you can experience if you really desire to have it (if you have not already). The point is no man can tell you what you should do, ask God and He will never lead you astray!
Thanks again for all your thoughts, as I said you are all good people just to participate in such a topic.
CPSANDMAN
May God bless you all...(especially this fall!)
1. We require something to get to heaven, baptism. Christ taught us this. We can't just believe and hope it all turns out. He was perfect yet was still required to be baptized.
2. If we require baptism to get to heaven, who has the authority to baptize? One religion says they do, another says they do. I know you are waiting for me to answer this question or tell you what religion I believe has the authority but I won't. I will instead go to my 3rd and last point.
3. PRAY! Get on your knees, humble yourself before your maker and ask with a SINCERE HEART which religion has the authority to act in His name and he will answer you. I have asked and received a witness that I can't describe but I know you can experience if you really desire to have it (if you have not already). The point is no man can tell you what you should do, ask God and He will never lead you astray!
Thanks again for all your thoughts, as I said you are all good people just to participate in such a topic.
CPSANDMAN
May God bless you all...(especially this fall!)
M
manny15
Guest
cpsandman, I almost agree with you, but I'll just add this to your statement, First We must be Christ like, Jesus did not go away to be with the father so we could start a bunch of dif. religions, under different people's expierence's...
Jesus said I and the father are one, so we most all be one, "you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven"...deep subject, this I know...
Jesus said I and the father are one, so we most all be one, "you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven"...deep subject, this I know...
M
manny15
Guest
keith' "It's scary how inhumane man can be to man!."
Harsh! but true!..The Bible says he was (Jesus) unrecognizable as a man...and he did it so we (Humanity) would have an equal operatunity to get to heaven...
Harsh! but true!..The Bible says he was (Jesus) unrecognizable as a man...and he did it so we (Humanity) would have an equal operatunity to get to heaven...
C
cpsandman
Guest
I agree and if I understand you correctly, that is my point, I beleive only one religion has the authority to act in His name. Not hundreds or thousands but one. So who has the truth? That is not my place to force upon what I beleive is right but something each us must find out for ourselves. I will add that I also beleive that every person who lives or who has lived upon the Earth will receive the opportunity to choose to follow this right path. God is fair and just and all will receive the opportunity to accept or reject the truth, we just need to be ready. Good point, I agree with you.
Thanks,
CPSANDMAN
Thanks,
CPSANDMAN
