Thoughts on new Special license fees

[BrianID]

Even though many nonresidents can afford it, $1200 for deer and pronghorn tags and $2000 for an elk tag is a lot of money. I'm sure that 40% of the tags will sell out at the special price for all the moderate and high demand hunts. Personally I'm sad to see hunting become more of a rich mans sport but also see a couple positives.

#1 Poachers - easier to justify higher penalties for poachers when tags are selling for a high price. If people are willing to spend $1200 to shoot a small buck or $2000 to shoot a raghorn, there will be more pressure on judges to given more than a slap on the wrist for "non trophy" animals.

#2 Extra money for Wyoming Game and Fish. I don't agree with everything they do but I think they do many things well. This extra money will hopefully help the animals that we all want to see thriving. Sorry residents, but I think this extra $$$ will also make it harder to push 10% cap on nonresident deer, elk and pronghorn.

Some of the negatives.

#1 If you hunt as a nonresident in any western state, you can expect significant fee increases over the next 5 years. Historically when one state increases their tag fees, other states tend to follow. Charging nonresidents more is an easy way to fix department budget problems. Inflation increased department costs significantly over the past 4 years. There have been no significant tag price increases in recent years in most western states. Nonresidents can expect increased license/tag fees in Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. You could argue that it is irresponsible for NM to charge only $277 or MT to charge only $200 for a nonresident pronghorn tag when Wyoming is getting $1200 for 40% of their nonresident tags.

#2 Nonresident hunting will become more of a rich mans sport. Out of state hunting is already a stretch for most middle class Americans. I have several friends that have been applying in Wyoming and there is no way they would pay $1200 for deer or pronghorn or $2000 for elk.

#3 Creates outfitter welfare. This was a big drive behind the increased fees. For low demand hunts, almost all people paying the higher fee will be outfitted clients.

 

[tailchasers]

I've come to far to let the tag price be the limiting factor. Motels, grocery stores, restaurants, and in our case outfitters & guide will loose too.

Another thought is there will be increased season pressure on the game animals with hunters likely willing to stay in the fields longer, more days, to maximize their rate of return. Same might be said for the bigger bucks too. Easier to shoot a 12" antelope at $600 than $1200.

I am hopeful this MIGHT reduce point creep and unit competition. Time will tell.

 

[Soj51hopeful]

I say good for Wyoming. Maybe for now the special draw odds will be substantially better, like it’s intended purpose.

 

[BrianID]

I say good for Wyoming. Maybe for now the special draw odds will be substantially better, like it’s intended purpose.

That is true. The original intention was to have increased draw odds in the special.
I do not think this will make a difference in drawing the higher demand hunts but will substantially help in drawing the lower demand hunts.

 

[BrianID]

Another thought is there will be increased season pressure on the game animals with hunters likely willing to stay in the fields longer, more days, to maximize their rate of return. Same might be said for the bigger bucks too. Easier to shoot a 12" antelope at $600 than $1200.

40% of the tags going to people with significant extra $$ will have some impact on the hunting pressure. Those that can drop the $$ for special will be more likely to higher a guide. I also think those are guys who are more dedicated and willing to hold out for older animals and put more time into the hunt. All those factors will put more pressure on the older bucks and bulls.

 

[jm77]

Sorry residents, but I think this extra $$$ will also make it harder to push 10% cap on nonresident deer, elk and pronghorn.

I'm glad to see another arm chair quarterbacking post about Wyoming license allocation.

That said, check it out but Wy G&F is in the black and this extra money on nr special fee could be use to facilitate more 90/10, not hurt it.

 

[Togwotee]

You're not good with math, cut the quota in half and keep raising the prices and you'll get rid of a chitload of NR applicants and loose their point fees as well. easy draw WY tags aren't worth the drive in my opinion I want a good tag or no tag. residents will scream like mashed cats if they have to make up the shortfall.

At this point my only concern is which do I apply for to give me the best odds? I'll take the hosing if it gets me what I want. but if you cut the quota in half I'll burn my points on whatever and you can shove it after that. I like hunting WY but I'm not Santa Claus I'll go elsewhere.

Why does every WY thread have to end up about residents bragging about how they can screw the NR?

 

[LIK2HNT]

Why does every WY thread have to end up about residents bragging about how they can screw the NR?

Meet a lot of nice WY resident that don’t feel this way. But there is a few here that keep circling the wagons and waving the banners.

 

[GeorgeE]

It comes down to what you want to do and how you want to spend your money…Beating the keyboard on forums aren’t going to change what’s happened, or what may happen in the future…

 

[BrianID]

I'm glad to see another arm chair quarterbacking post about Wyoming license allocation.

That said, check it out but Wy G&F is in the black and this extra money on nr special fee could be use to facilitate more 90/10, not hurt it.

I don't see why I can't be an armchair quarterback. That is what this forum is for.

Your right that the extra fee will make a 90/10 transition easier financially but still think it becomes less likely.

How often does government raise taxes/fees and then turn around and say we don't need all this money? Do you think the Wyoming outfitters will given any push back to the 90/10 for deer, elk and pronghorn? Reduced nonresident moose and sheep tags will have a minimal to no impact on most outfitters. Reduced nonresident elk, deer & pronghorn tags will have a significant impact on most outfitters.

Just for the recored, I have posts on monstermuleys for the last 20 years saying I support residents keeping 90% of the tags. I've also said on the Wyoming forum in the last 2 years multiple times that I think Wyoming residents getting 90% of the tags is a reasonable request. The only complaint I've made about the change to 10% for nonresidents is the "bait and switch" aspect. Some nonresidents have spent thousands of dollars building up Moose and Sheep points just to have the rug pulled out from under them. If you don't have at least a little sympathy for those nonresidents that have spent significant years and $$ building points, you must be a narcissist. You can still have an opinion that nonresidents should get no more than 10% of the tags without telling nonresidents their opinion doesn't matter.

 

[WapitiBob]

I've hunted for 55 years; still waiting for the applicants to decrease in OR, WY, UT, NM, or AZ.

 

[Crampy]

... Some nonresidents have spent thousands of dollars building up Moose and Sheep points just to have the rug pulled out from under them. If you don't have at least a little sympathy for those nonresidents that have spent significant years and $$ building points, you must be a narcissist...

The theft committed by WY G&F with regards to NR moose & sheep money is unprecedented. Sure, many other states have changed rules, systems and odds.

No other state has ever pulled off a 20 + year fraudulent bait & switch scheme with the huge dollar figures at play here.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't see why I can't be an armchair quarterback. That is what this forum is for.

Your right that the extra fee will make a 90/10 transition easier financially but still think it becomes less likely.

How often does government raise taxes/fees and then turn around and say we don't need all this money? Do you think the Wyoming outfitters will given any push back to the 90/10 for deer, elk and pronghorn? Reduced nonresident moose and sheep tags will have a minimal to no impact on most outfitters. Reduced nonresident elk, deer & pronghorn tags will have a significant impact on most outfitters.

Just for the recored, I have posts on monstermuleys for the last 20 years saying I support residents keeping 90% of the tags. I've also said on the Wyoming forum in the last 2 years multiple times that I think Wyoming residents getting 90% of the tags is a reasonable request. The only complaint I've made about the change to 10% for nonresidents is the "bait and switch" aspect. Some nonresidents have spent thousands of dollars building up Moose and Sheep points just to have the rug pulled out from under them. If you don't have at least a little sympathy for those nonresidents that have spent significant years and $$ building points, you must be a narcissist. You can still have an opinion that nonresidents should get no more than 10% of the tags without telling nonresidents their opinion doesn't matter.

I give as much thought to NRs as the residents of Utah, Montana, Idaho, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, etc. give me. Several States have changed the draw and tag availability for me as a NR, they didn't give a chit. I also didn't complain, *****, and moan when they did it either.

It's the strangest thing, all I hear from the NRs of Wyoming is how poorly they're treated. Wyoming has always been wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too generous to NRs.

That generosity has morphed into an entitlement attitude.

I'm over it, if you don't like how Wyoming does things or allocates tags, take your business elsewhere. I just don't care anymore and I'm going to do everything I can to increase opportunities for residents, the same thing every other resident does in the States I apply for nr tags in.

 

[BuzzH]

The theft committed by WY G&F with regards to NR moose & sheep money is unprecedented. Sure, many other states have changed rules, systems and odds.

No other state has ever pulled off a 20 + year fraudulent bait & switch scheme with the huge dollar figures at play here.

Nice post, don't care.

 

[Crampy]

speaking of narcissists.

 

[lostinOregon]

I've hunted for 55 years; still waiting for the applicants to decrease in OR, WY, UT, NM, or AZ.

You don’t want an Oregon tag. Your better off with a kick in the yam bags and stay home.

 

[jm77]

I don't see why I can't be an armchair quarterback. That is what this forum is for.

You can, I'm just saying...

You're not good with math, cut the quota in half and keep raising the prices and you'll get rid of a chitload of NR applicants and loose their point fees as well.

I'm plenty good with math, YOU don't understand how many tags would be really be changed from nr to res. The money needed could be made up with residents not "screaming like mashed cats".

Why does every WY thread have to end up about residents bragging about how they can screw the NR?

You just made this up. You just flat made that up! I see residents propose more licenses and wanting more opportunity in the state where they live. Wow, isn't that a novel idea. How about all the nr on here, what allocation does your state provide?

Your right that the extra fee will make a 90/10 transition easier financially but still think it becomes less likely.

I'm certain you brought up 90/10, I just wanted to clarify that the G&F budget is not lacking funds at this time. Now here comes the haters starting with @Togwotee

 

[BuzzH]

speaking of narcissists.

Nice post, don't care.

 

[HornedToad]

Nice post, don't care.

Nice post, but for the sake of this forum, get off your bloody rag.

 

[HikeHunt61]

#2 Nonresident hunting will become more of a rich mans sport. Out of state hunting is already a stretch for most middle class Americans. I have several friends that have been applying in Wyoming and there is no way they would pay $1200 for deer or pronghorn or $2000 for elk.

BrianID- I think the reality is that nonresident hunting has been trending this direction for years and will continue to. Of course, "rich man" is relative- maybe "dedicated" is more like it. Think about it- a family trip to Disney costs $6865 (per some stupid website about hacking Disney ). Many average income people go to Disney. $2000 for a special elk tag doesn't seem so crazy- especially if you know you can step down to regular if you are not that dedicated.

I look at it more like this- there is much greater demand for those tags than there is supply. I like markets to be in balance- and it is FAR from balanced. If they don't move prices up, more people apply who are less dedicated, and people who badly want to hunt will have FAR less chance of getting a tag because of it.

BTW- I get the sentiment about rich man's sport. Many hunters are used to the days when it was about getting out there and hanging with your buddies for a moderate cost. For nonresidents- we'll just have to do that in our own states.

 

[BeDawg]

Sick of the Wyoming residents complaining about us NR. Just outlaw all NR hunting in WY and stop taking my money. Pay for your policies on your own dime. Start having kids with your relatives for as much as I care. Your hunting isn’t going to get any better without us and you’re still not going to draw a coveted unit 100 elk tag. If you love your wildlife as much as you say you do, have them jack up your prices to what we pay and keep on thinking your poop smells like peaches.

 

[BeDawg]

I give as much thought to NRs as the residents of Utah, Montana, Idaho, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, etc. give me. Several States have changed the draw and tag availability for me as a NR, they didn't give a chit. I also didn't complain, *****, and moan when they did it either.

It's the strangest thing, all I hear from the NRs of Wyoming is how poorly they're treated. Wyoming has always been wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too generous to NRs.

That generosity has morphed into an entitlement attitude.

I'm over it, if you don't like how Wyoming does things or allocates tags, take your business elsewhere. I just don't care anymore and I'm going to do everything I can to increase opportunities for residents, the same thing every other resident does in the States I apply for nr tags in.

Oregon gives like 5% of the tags to the NR. Why give only 10% of the tags to NR when you could give just 5% or even less. Glad you nominated yourself as the spokesperson for everyone in the state of Wyoming. Since you are such a champion for resident tags, take more opportunity from the NR and just charge the resident more a lot more money.

 

[jm77]

Sick of the Wyoming residents complaining about us NR. Just outlaw all NR hunting in WY and stop taking my money. Pay for your policies on your own dime. Start having kids with your relatives for as much as I care. Your hunting isn’t going to get any better without us and you’re still not going to draw a coveted unit 100 elk tag. If you love your wildlife as much as you say you do, have them jack up your prices to what we pay and keep on thinking your poop smells like peaches.

Another ticked off nr making things up. I constantly see this comment about how residents are complaining about nr, when in fact it's just the opposite. If you're going to have this much heartburn over higher license fees and changes in license allocation, maybe hunting out of state is just not for you. If you can't deal with how Wyoming treats it's residents, counseling might be an option.

 

[Katoom]

Anyone remember when hunting forums were fun? Ahh, here’s to the good old days!

For those who don’t, it’s a shame. Even Buzz used to be friendly. But things change, blame can be assigned in different ways. But forum society seems to track general society, and just isn’t the escape it used to be. But where else we gonna go?

To keep some relevance to the OP, I am in with the elk special this year after much thought. I used up antelope points (special) last year. I don’t even see a deer hunt worth special fee
at my points yet so I’ll watch for a little while then dump or share, just to be done. I just want to get out of the issue, it really does cause stress, financial and also just to questioning why it’s so important to put so much effort into it. From then, I will throw my lot in occasionally with the random regular and be happy with whatever tag Wyoming makes possible. I don’t expect there will be that many more in my life and saying that in my late 40’s is disappointing, but is also the reality.

 

[BuzzH]

Oregon gives like 5% of the tags to the NR. Why give only 10% of the tags to NR when you could give just 5% or even less. Glad you nominated yourself as the spokesperson for everyone in the state of Wyoming. Since you are such a champion for resident tags, take more opportunity from the NR and just charge the resident more a lot more money.

Good for Oregon, nice to see a state that gives priority to their resident hunters.

Wyoming is going the same direction, which is long overdue. Already started with moose, sheep, goat, bison. You know how many times I heard "that will never happen!"? How did that work out? Just a matter of time for pronghorn, deer, and elk.

You'll get your wish.

 

[Deercy]

There's two guys on here who think the Wyoming part of this forum is theirs. Any idiot from anywhere else isn't worthy of the right to comment. How's the lobbying going? Get the landowner voucher program shut down yet? I seem to remember someone saying "that will never happen", or something like that.

 

[Deercy]

I personally don't care what I have to pay for tags, or allocation. If it's not worth it to me, I'll quit trying. Life will continue on, and the inevitable end will be here soon enough.

 

[BuzzH]

I personally don't care what I have to pay for tags, or allocation. If it's not worth it to me, I'll quit trying. Life will continue on, and the inevitable end will be here soon enough.

I'm pulling for you to quit, so are thousands of NR hunters that won't be and will gladly take your place.

 

[jm77]

There's two guys on here who think the Wyoming part of this forum is theirs. Any idiot from anywhere else isn't worthy of the right to comment.

Once again, a comment not based in fact by an angry nr.

 

[HikeHunt61]

Sorry residents, but I think this extra $$$ will also make it harder to push 10% cap on nonresident deer, elk and pronghorn.

Oh, I imagine it is inevitable. I don't think it will impact license revenue though- they can make that up in increased license fees when they do it and will likely sell all the tags at the increased amount (or move to an even more graduated fee structure to insure it).

I think the tricky part for Wyoming is the preference point revenue. I believe PP account for >$12M and 22% of their intake. Reduced tags will accelerate point creep significantly, and buying points is different than buying licenses.

But again, increased tag fees will be part of that equation to offset any loss from PP.

 

[BuzzH]

The preference point revenue can be mitigated by a non refundable application fee and/or a required hunting license like Utah, Nevada, and Arizona.

 

[Bookhead]

What a bunch of sniveling nannies. Never seen so much crying about a state somone doesn't even live in compared to wy its crazy. No one cares if you don't want to hunt here anymore

 

[Bookhead]

Just for the refresher wyoga pushed for this because they want people to not be able to afford it that way their above average wealth clients can. Thank them for it quit crying to all the residents in a forum about it.

 

[HikeHunt61]

What a bunch of sniveling nannies. Never seen so much crying about a state somone doesn't even live in compared to wy its crazy. No one cares if you don't want to hunt here anymore

OK, but take a moment and put yourself in a Non Resident's shoes that's been buying points for a decade (or more). Wyoming changed the game after all that time, and those folks are pissy about it. If you're honest- you would be pissy too if put in that situation.

Now, Wyoming has every right to reallocate license %- they never guaranteed anything. I don't harbor ill will about it. But I surely understand those with $1000s invested not being happy about it.

 

[Bookhead]

OK, but take a moment and put yourself in a Non Resident's shoes that's been buying points for a decade (or more). Wyoming changed the game after all that time, and those folks are pissy about it. If you're honest- you would be pissy too if put in that situation.

Now, Wyoming has every right to reallocate license %- they never guaranteed anything. I don't harbor ill will about it. But I surely understand those with $1000s invested not being happy about it.

What state hasn't raised their fees at some point? Or adjusted their allocations?

 

[Bookhead]

Colorado just changed their allocations don't see every other post on the colorado forum being a nr ****** and complaining about it

 

[BuzzH]

OK, but take a moment and put yourself in a Non Resident's shoes that's been buying points for a decade (or more). Wyoming changed the game after all that time, and those folks are pissy about it. If you're honest- you would be pissy too if put in that situation.

Now, Wyoming has every right to reallocate license %- they never guaranteed anything. I don't harbor ill will about it. But I surely understand those with $1000s invested not being happy about it.

BTDT... Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Montana all changed their systems, increased fees, changed allocations, etc. etc. some of them, more than once.

Is what it is.

 

[Deercy]

BTDT... Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Montana all changed their systems, increased fees, changed allocations, etc. etc. some of them, more than once.

Is what it is.

Truth. I couldn't care less what Wyoming does. It's my decision if it's worth it to me. Hopefully it will be at some time. I've wondered what would happen if they were all auctioned off to the highest bidder what they would bring. No system will ever be so complete it won't need change.

 

[Triple_BB]

Never realized we had so many nonresident hunters living paycheck to paycheck. What a bunch of whiners and cry babies. Sounds like some of you guys need to stick with your home state and/or Colorado since they have fantastic out of state opportunities. If you’re done with Wyoming, congrats. And if you’ll be done soon, thanks for what you were able to do…

 

[Deercy]

The conversation was civil until one of the two normal people reacted like normal

 

[tailchasers]

Never realized we had so many nonresident hunters living paycheck to paycheck.

That is the vast majority of the US population. Hence my post #2 and the relevancy to your statement. Wyoming is affordable but this definition is waning. It's not just WY though. I am a Colorado resident and feel the resident price here are growing at a ridiculous rate. Annual increases are tied to the CPI and not to exceed 3% each year. Believe it or not, for some folk these increases outpace wage increases + factor everything else deducted from your wages let alone other living expenses.

Perhaps I am unique where I'm willing to make cuts elsewhere to afford the tag and hunt. Figure I need to cut about $750 each at today's prices for our next Wyoming hunts. This will change as time progresses, our earnings grow, & vacation time increase.

A Wyoming hunt to us is like many folks going to Cancun in February. Probably a dam good reason I like Pendleton, a good steak, and a cigar for dessert.

 

[Bookhead]

Hunting out of state is a luxury for all of us

 

[Crampy]

Changing allocations and raising prices is fine.

But completely zeroing out 20 years of NR moose/sheep points that WY G&F was charging $150 for? Nothing even close to that has EVER happened.

 

[BuzzH]

Changing allocations and raising prices is fine.

But completely zeroing out 20 years of NR moose/sheep points that WY G&F was charging $150 for? Nothing even close to that has EVER happened.

Yes it has. Montana completely ended their preference system.

Funny, back then nobody like you threw their suckers in the dirt, stamped their feet, or held their breath over it either.

 

[jm77]

The conversation was civil until one of the two normal people reacted like normal

You might want to be less selective about what comments cause the incivility.

 

[Crampy]

Yes it has. Montana completely ended their preference system.

Funny, back then nobody like you threw their suckers in the dirt, stamped their feet, or held their breath over it either

Wrong. That did not involve anywhere near the years and dollar figures of the great WY G&F moose sheep scam.

Drastically different details. Fake news from a narcissist.

 

[BuzzH]

Wrong. That did not involve anywhere near the years and dollar figures of the great WY G&F moose sheep scam.

Drastically different details. Fake news from a narcissist.

Wrong. It involved similar investment of time and money.

Stop talking about things you didn't know happened and weren't part of.

Oh, and for the record, you have that lawsuit you were threatening spooled up yet?

 

[jm77]

Changing allocations and raising prices is fine.

But completely zeroing out 20 years of NR moose/sheep points that WY G&F was charging $150 for? Nothing even close to that has EVER happened.

Not sure what you mean here, but no points were zeroed out. I'm not saying most will draw with the present system because they won't. Their points are still there and most likely will be converted to bonus points in the future.

 

[Deercy]

You might want to be less selective about what comments cause the incivility.

Whatever. I'm sure it bothers you if I put my elbows on the table and you can't do anything about it.

 

[jm77]

You might want to be less selective about what comments cause the incivility.

Whatever. I'm sure it bothers you if I put my elbows on the table and you can't do anything about it.

Kinda like two guys and the Wyoming Forum?

 

[BuzzH]

It's like groundhog Day every year around Wyoming's application time.

 

[Deercy]

How about these? No application necessary. Just a bib.

 

[HornedToad]

I’m for shutting down all hunting on all Federal land in Wyoming. That will give the animals a chance to recover, before Buzz can kill them all for his garage.

HT

 

[BuzzH]

I’m for shutting down all hunting on all Federal land in Wyoming. That will give the animals a chance to recover, before Buzz can kill them all for his garage.

HT

Meh, I've seen me hunt, I'd still crush it on State and private.

 

[Bookhead]

I’m for shutting down all hunting on all Federal land in Wyoming. That will give the animals a chance to recover, before Buzz can kill them all for his garage.

HT

Would you of got your 77"antelope without federal land though?

 

[HornedToad]

Would you have got your 77"antelope without federal land though?

My taxi just got the hide back from the tannery, so it won’t be long now. Looking forward to introducing my 81” pronghorn mount to the group. And yes… taken on Federal BLM land, in the Red Desert, on a low cost permit. Thank you, Wyoming.

Now… pull up the drawbridge!

 

[Weimer]

Does every thread in this section devolve to R vs NR. Good lord. If you don’t like it don’t apply. Wyoming will be fine.

 

[Sparks Shooter]

My taxi just got the hide back from the tannery, so it won’t be long now. Looking forward to introducing my 81” pronghorn mount to the group. And yes… taken on Federal BLM land, in the Red Desert, on a low cost permit. Thank you, Wyoming.

Now… pull up the drawbridge!

I hope you enjoy your mount and it brings you enough happiness to overcome your nose being bent about a few guys questioning a score that shouldn't matter to anyone but you anyway.

I also hope that the new fees actually dissuade a few like yourself from applying in the future. You can stare at your 81" mount while I get to hunt Wyoming a little more often. ---SS

 

[nfh]

After reading through this I am starting a 12 step program.

Group will be called Wyoming Non-resident whiners club anonymous.


Good luck to all in the future draw.

 

[HornedToad]

I hope you enjoy your mount and it brings you enough happiness to overcome your nose being bent about a few guys questioning a score that shouldn't matter to anyone but you anyway.

I also hope that the new fees actually dissuade a few like yourself from applying in the future. You can stare at your 81" mount while I get to hunt Wyoming a little more often. ---SS

Friend… my nose was never “bent”.

For me, this has all been in jest. A poke here… a poke there. None of this matters… as I said from the beginning.

I will enjoy looking at my 81” Wyoming pronghorn, and my 175” Wyoming bighorn, and my Wyoming moose. It has been a good ride. If I were younger, I might care more, but I am old, and close to the end of the line, so I don’t.

None of this will keep me from posting here, when I feel like it, but as for the future, you have it all to yourself.

HT

 

[BrianID]

I knew I would strike a nerve in the original post with the comment below but probably should have left it out.

"Sorry residents, but I think this extra $$$ will also make it harder to push 10% cap on nonresident deer, elk and pronghorn."

That is just my opinion and you are welcome to disagree. I have no ill feeling against residents that want to limit nonresidents to less tags. Wyoming has been very generous to nonresidents for years. I'm not whining, I just wanted to start a discussion to see what everyone else thinks. I might be wrong but I'm guessing BuzzH and JM77 seem much more hateful toward nonresidents in their posts than they actually are.

For me personally the fee increase could be a good thing because it will likely make it easier to get tags. I do see the potential downsides and have sympathy for the people that are getting priced out.

Residents of Wyoming that hunt as nonresidents in neighboring states will certainly be impacted by this. It won't take long for other states to significantly increase their nonresident fees.

 

[BuzzH]

Why is Wyoming prioritizing resident opportunity viewed as hatred toward NRs?

Its not unreasonable for Wyoming residents to want to be treated similarly to residents of Utah, Nevada, Montana, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, etc.

You know states that Wyoming residents apply for tags and pay significantly higher license and tag fees and are limited to 10% or less of available permits.

Wyoming does the same thing and it's NR "hatred"?

Unbelievable.

 

[P.T. Jeffers]

f*k WYOGA

 

[mulecreek]

After reading through this I am starting a 12 step program.

Group will be called Wyoming Non-resident whiners club anonymous.


Good luck to all in the future draw.

Anonymous? They make it abundantly clear to all exactly who they are.

 

[Katoom]

Interesting point of reference for anyone looking for vacation alternatives…On short notice I just booked 6 days 5 nights in Puerto Rico incl airfare, hotel, car, daily breakfast, couple drinks /snacks daily, beach club passes.. about $1200 per person. Nothing too fancy, but a nice place across from Isla Verde beach. It was that, or another (maybe) 70 inch antelope in the Special (not including travel, lodging, food or beach). LOL.

 

[HikeHunt61]

Ya, wouldn't pay special price for a 70...

 

[BuzzH]

Interesting point of reference for anyone looking for vacation alternatives…On short notice I just booked 6 days 5 nights in Puerto Rico incl airfare, hotel, car, daily breakfast, couple drinks /snacks daily, beach club passes.. about $1200 per person. Nothing too fancy, but a nice place across from Isla Verde beach. It was that, or another (maybe) 70 inch antelope in the Special (not including travel, lodging, food or beach). LOL.

All about priorities, hope you have a great time.

 

[nfh]

Anonymous? They make it abundantly clear to all exactly who they are.

Cant argue that. But if they had a place to go before here on monster muleys maybe we could cut down on the hard feelings and give them a safe place.





Step 1. As a non-resident I admit i am powerless in the state Wyoming and we become unmanageable.

step 2. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves being residents and wyoga as we understood them.

step 3-12 still working on.


Anyhow i would love to complain about a couple of states but as a non-resident I dont get that right.

 

[BigChiefJ]

I bet odds for special antlerless elk just got way better.

 

[BuzzH]

I bet odds for special antlerless elk just got way better.

Any leftover will drop to the regular fee draw.

 

[jm77]

I'm fairly certain many nr on here are keeping the commenting shut off while they plan how they are going to hunt every year in Wyoming due to the special fee increase. It's going to be interesting to see this year's draw odds!

 

[mulecreek]

I'm fairly certain many nr on here are keeping the commenting shut off while they plan how they are going to hunt every year in Wyoming due to the special fee increase. It's going to be interesting to see this year's draw odds!

If they are smart they are. Either fold or play the cards as they are dealt.

 

[goforbroke]

Love Wyoming. No longer put in for points on moose, sheep, bison, elk as the price makes it not worth it to me to build points. I am at 15 deer points and once those are gone I doubt I will build points.

I really enjoy the doe antelope hunts in Wyoming. My kids are getting older so we haven't done that for a few years, but hope to do that again in about 15 more years with grand kids. Fingers crossed antlerless prices don't go crazy.

As for special tag price. Great if they charge more. I won't apply for them, but others will.

Hunting is about providing meat and spending time with friends and family.

 

[BuzzH]

How many bison points did you leave on the table?

 

[BrianID]

Why is Wyoming prioritizing resident opportunity viewed as hatred toward NRs?

Its not unreasonable for Wyoming residents to want to be treated similarly to residents of Utah, Nevada, Montana, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, etc.

You know states that Wyoming residents apply for tags and pay significantly higher license and tag fees and are limited to 10% or less of available permits.

Wyoming does the same thing and it's NR "hatred"?

Unbelievable.

It is the way you come across when you make posts. You didn't have such a sharp edge in your responses in the past. I'm guessing you are just tired of all the whining nonresidents interested in hunting Wyoming.

I'm not whining about the special fees. I just wanted to have a discussion to see what everyone else thought about the special fees. I find it interesting there will be many nonresident hunters willing to spend $2000 for an elk tag just to put it on a raghorn or $1200 to shoot a small muley, whitetail or pronghorn.

 

[BrianID]

I'm fairly certain many nr on here are keeping the commenting shut off while they plan how they are going to hunt every year in Wyoming due to the special fee increase. It's going to be interesting to see this year's draw odds!

It will be interesting to see the draw odds. I'll be interested to see how many people pay the special fee for some of the low demand hunts. There are a lot of hunters that can and will spend $1200 for a mediocre pronghorn tag or $2000 for a general elk tag.

 

[Crampy]

How many bison points did you leave on the table?

Because WY Bison doesn't have points. And never has.

And narcissist know-it-all needs to rub that in your face.

 

[Mallardsx2]

View attachment 135716

Ya....

 

[HikeHunt61]

It will be interesting to see the draw odds. I'll be interested to see how many people pay the special fee for some of the low demand hunts. There are a lot of hunters that can and will spend $1200 for a mediocre pronghorn tag or $2000 for a general elk tag.

Yep.

Closest to the pin game- how many less total NR special applicants in 2024 vs 2023?

My guesses:

Elk -10%
Antelope -14%
Deer -17%

 

[idahohuntr]

Yep.

Closest to the pin game- how many less total NR special applicants in 2024 vs 2023?

My guesses:

Elk -10%
Antelope -14%
Deer -17%

I'm more interested in the guesses for higher demand hunts. Seems very predictable that marginal/poor access/lower quality hunts will definitely mean fewer special apps...but is the special fee enough to reduce special apps for higher demand units/hunts...those taking 10, 15+ points? Or will people flock to the special, assuming the price will give them an advantage...only to find the regular apps have higher odds because there are a ton of us who would gladly pay $2k for quite a few WY elk units. Either way, very curious how it all shakes out.

 

[elkantlers]

How many bison points did you leave on the table?

I'm sure he just misspoke, no need to pounce.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm sure he just misspoke, no need to pounce.

I think half the NRs saying they dropped out of points for moose and sheep, never applied to begin with. Seen several make the claim they quit applying for moose, sheep, goat, and bison points in Wyoming. Yeah, sure...

People that apply seriously don't forget what they acquire points for, and in particular the species that they can't. Even more important if you're behind the 8 ball on points, applying for species that only issue random tags would make the most sense.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I didn't buy a sheep point for the first time in 14 years. I never did buy a moose point.

I'm not 100% sure WY will figure out a bonus point system that makes the weighted points worth it. Depends how the random draw goes, right now for 1 tag, to me it isnt worth the CC fee to apply. I still buy deer and antelope points though but will burn those and be done.

But to your point, I can tell you how many points I have and for what species across 5 states.

There is a lot of places to hunt. Times change, just have to adapt.

 

[goforbroke]

How many bison points did you leave on the table?

13 sheep and moose points. Bison I had 0

Arizona I gave up on Bison also.

 

[BuzzH]

13 sheep and moose points. Bison I had 0

Arizona I gave up on Bison also.

The people still applying always appreciate a quitter.

 

[mulecreek]

13 sheep and moose points. Bison I had 0

Arizona I gave up on Bison also.

Depending on when you stopped you were in a tough place for NR sheep and moose even with the prior allocation.

 

[HornedToad]

The people still applying always appreciate a quitter.

This comment reflects the reason many here consider Buzz to be a complete douche.

He brags about his role in reducing NR opportunity, thus gutting the value of preference points, for which some have invested a thousand dollars or more, then when some guy declares he’s had enough, and is done sending his dollars to Wyoming, Buzz gets to call him a quitter.

I’m glad I got my bighorn, moose and pronghorn out of Wyoming, but I feel sorry for the younger guys who haven’t been so lucky, and now have to walk away from their bad investments.

It is easy to understand why Wyoming made the changes it did, so good for any R’s who benefit from those changes, but that doesn’t justify gloating over the disappointment of those NR’s adversely affected.

HT

 

[treedagain]

This comment reflects the reason many here consider Buzz to be a complete douche.

He brags about his role in reducing NR opportunity, thus gutting the value of preference points, for which some have invested a thousand dollars or more, then when some guy declares he’s had enough, and is done sending his dollars to Wyoming, Buzz gets to call him a quitter.

I’m glad I got my bighorn, moose and pronghorn out of Wyoming, but I feel sorry for the younger guys who haven’t been so lucky, and now have to walk away from their bad investments.

It is easy to understand why Wyoming made the changes it did, so good for any R’s who benefit from those changes, but that doesn’t justify gloating over the disappointment of those NR’s adversely affected.

1. I think you have almost reached the threshold for a stalking charge
2. How many times will you tell the world about your prize winning ram, moose and antelope?
3. Is sharing a pic bragging? See #2 and look in the mirror.
4. The constant bitching about res/non-res is pretty stupid. Yep it sucks to loose tags, but it's there state
5. So basically while everyone is bitching, bull landowner tags are slipping under the radar.. we ALL we lose tags with that one.
6. I don't think Wyoming cares 1 bit that you won't be back.

 

[LivingTheDream]

we ALL we lose tags with that one.

If they are transferable, can't someone just buy one?

 

[goforbroke]

The people still applying always appreciate a quitter.

They should

2900 non residents have more sheep points than I do. 1 tag goes in the random draw. 22 tags to non-residents in the max point pool. 48 years young now so I didn't think I'd make the max point pool by the time I was 80.

Some years I"ll still apply for a tag as I am still in the random draw, but I don't pay the $150 point fee.

So you may see it as quitting, I see it as not throwing money away. We probably see a few other things in life differently also.

 

[BuzzH]

If they are transferable, can't someone just buy one?

Sure, but the chronic complainers are griping about $50 for an elk point...and $2k for a Special fee.

You honestly think those same guys are going to just plop down 5-10-15-20K for a transferable tag?

Don't think so.

 

[BuzzH]

This comment reflects the reason many here consider Buzz to be a complete douche.

He brags about his role in reducing NR opportunity, thus gutting the value of preference points, for which some have invested a thousand dollars or more, then when some guy declares he’s had enough, and is done sending his dollars to Wyoming, Buzz gets to call him a quitter.

I’m glad I got my bighorn, moose and pronghorn out of Wyoming, but I feel sorry for the younger guys who haven’t been so lucky, and now have to walk away from their bad investments.

It is easy to understand why Wyoming made the changes it did, so good for any R’s who benefit from those changes, but that doesn’t justify gloating over the disappointment of those NR’s adversely affected.

HT

Hmmm

If someone starts a project and then stops the project, to never work on it again, what do you call that?

Yeah, I call it quitting as well.

I'm not bragging about anything, but yes, we did work to increase Resident opportunity to level the playing field with the States Wyoming Residents apply as NR's to.

I could really care less if people start, stop, or continue to apply in Wyoming or anywhere else. I don't apply in NM any longer even though I did for 15 years or so. I quit, big deal, nobody has any sympathy for me, why should I have any for anyone else quitting? My quitting gave others a better chance to draw there.

All this over a 77" pronghorn, unbelievable.

 

[jm77]

1. I think you have almost reached the threshold for a stalking charge
2. How many times will you tell the world about your prize winning ram, moose and antelope?
3. Is sharing a pic bragging? See #2 and look in the mirror.
4. The constant bitching about res/non-res is pretty stupid. Yep it sucks to loose tags, but it's there state
5. So basically while everyone is bitching, bull landowner tags are slipping under the radar.. we ALL we lose tags with that one.
6. I don't think Wyoming cares 1 bit that you won't be back.

I appreciate you being candid, so I didn't have to.

They should

2900 non residents have more sheep points than I do. 1 tag goes in the random draw. 22 tags to non-residents in the max point pool. 48 years young now so I didn't think I'd make the max point pool by the time I was 80.

Some years I"ll still apply for a tag as I am still in the random draw, but I don't pay the $150 point fee.

So you may see it as quitting, I see it as not throwing money away. We probably see a few other things in life differently also.

Playing the lottery for a sheep as a nr is a losing proposition for all of us. I finally decided time was not in my favor to do another sheep hunt, so I bit the bullet and spent a ridiculous amount of money to do one more sheep hunt. Best move and I don't miss the cash. I'll probably make most of it back not applying in other states!

 

[nocwalker]

Just for the refresher wyoga pushed for this because they want people to not be able to afford it that way their above average wealth clients can. Thank them for it quit crying to all the residents in a forum about it.

wow Bookhead, never thought about the WYOGA being supportive of this. We stayed out of the draw this year due to the increase of the special draw price. We are the guys the WYoga may want to stop> the diy guys. were not expert elk hunters, shellng out 2K for a tag and no help seems hard for us. Hunting a great animal in an awesome state is probably worth it to us easterners but dang it hurts. Maybe we need a year to swallow this and still decide to go for it. unfortunitly I dont think we can draw the tag in the reg draw

So, back to my favorite saying- - - It is what it is

 

[DoeNob]

It will get worse before it gets better. With the silly requirement non-residents use a guide in the wilderness area, they have a monopoly on a large part of the state - and their fees are skyrocketing. We have been watching one hunt and building elk points for about 6 years now (13, no mans land) and the fee has gone from 6k to 13k. I don't begrudge them at all but NR hunts in WY are competing with ALL NR hunts nationwide. When NR In NM are paying $25k to go shoot a 310 in the gila...well everything else gets pulled in that direction. Point is if I'm paying 13k for an elk hunt, an extra 1k is not a consideration. Hell it costs $800 in gas to drive there and back, they can up the special tag to $4k and still probably doesnt effect much except outfitters can charge more too. Most of these are effectively OIL hunts, I will never draw again so ok paying a couple extra K here or there, will take 25 years or never to get to go again.

On the subject of NR allocation, WY should be the MOST generous of any state because you have NO residents comparatively. Your population is just non-existent compared to others that compete in the big game hunting space. MT is next closest at 1.1 MM, NM 2.1 mm, CO 6 mm, AZ 7.5 mm. When you think about it as tags per resident as % of the state population vs non resident the residents of WY have an incredible deal compared to the residents of other states. Simply no one lives in WY in comparison, there less than 1/2 the residents of the next closest state. On the flip side you have abundant wildlife. Competitive elk population w/ nm and utah and the biggest antelope population in the west. Lots and lots of public land.

So both residents and non residents should sing the praises of WY opportunity regardless of cost or drawing odds because it will continue to get WAY worse everywhere else. Remember these days and look back in 10 years.

I am not sure what if any solution exists that's fair and equitable. These fights have been going on for 20 years I been watching them, probably before that. Deck chairs on the titanic. Demand will continue to climb, resources will continue to decline or be cyclical.

What's fair? NV seems pretty fair, buy a license every year all on bonus points squared or cubed. Everyone has a chance but you have an anstronomically higher chance the longer you have been in.

And I was a WY resident for 8 years so you can include that when you flame on.

Oh last point, inflation adjusted fees shoudl just be written into the law, yearly fluctionation so they dont have big catch ups. Look at a grocery bill from 6 years ago vs today. Costs up 40% on many items, this is no different.

 

[LIK2HNT]

@DoeNob good points. Inflation is a killer. Trucks have double in cost in 20 years. Power bills are outrageous. Feel sorry for retired individuals on a fixed income. Not sure we need to worry about tag cost or animal populations in 20 years because there may not be any hunting the way we have now.

 

[Crampy]

It will get worse before it gets better. With the silly requirement non-residents use a guide in the wilderness area, they have a monopoly on a large part of the state - and their fees are skyrocketing.
...
On the subject of NR allocation, WY should be the MOST generous of any state because you have NO residents comparatively. Your population is just non-existent compared to others that compete in the big game hunting space. ...

This, 100%.

WY is now potentially the LEAST generous western state and various WY residents want 90/10 on WY D-E-A also?

Sure, 10% across the board seems like a standard. But then you need to account for fewer humans, more animals, more federal land, and the wilderness rule. And then, industry leading tag costs, point fees and credit card fees.

Wyoming starts looking pretty selfish.

And that is before you consider the ****-blocking move of 1/31 NR elk app deadline (but May results).

 

[Mallardsx2]

^^^Oh don't worry.

I am confident that one certainly special douchebag will post a picture of all of his 6+ big game tags and still have the nerve to b1tch about not getting enough resident allocation.

It's happened before.

 

[Mallardsx2]

 

[junior]

This, 100%.

WY is now potentially the LEAST generous western state and various WY residents want 90/10 on WY D-E-A also?

Sure, 10% across the board seems like a standard. But then you need to account for fewer humans, more animals, more federal land, and the wilderness rule. And then, industry leading tag costs, point fees and credit card fees.

Wyoming starts looking pretty selfish.

And that is before you consider the ****-blocking move of 1/31 NR elk app deadline (but May results).

I disagree on Wy potentially being the least generous. Even if it goes 90/10.