Unit 21

[silverstem]

Was wondering how the deer hunting was this year, we hunted it a few years ago and was wondering if it was worth drawing again, or waiting...thanks

 

[oldmossback]

Yes, I would like to know also since Iim sitting on 14 resident points.

 

[bowtech82]

Deer numbers are down, quality is way down compared to recent years. I know several hardcore deer hunters that have moved on to other units that are producing better numbers and quality of bucks. In my own opinion, there is not a buck in that unit worth 14 points. Biggest buck I have seen or heard of coming out of there in recent years is grossing 185. Great buck, but that used to be just above average for that unit. Good luck.

 

[mike111]

I have 8 pts non-res and have been considered 21 along with a few other units. I've always believed Colorado to being the top producer of big bucks out West. So when I see a resident with 14 pts possibly not being able to hunt a unit with a number of big bucks to be found, I begin to wonder what quality is really left in the State. I'm not trying to bash Colorado by any means, just trying to find what point level would produce a fun hunt with the potential for a giant buck to be found.

 

[cmbbulldog]

If I had lots of points, I would look exclusively to 4th season hunts that had some public land.

 

[Coloradoboy]

I personally think the number of quality bucks in this state is better right now then its been in the last ten years. However this has been an extremely tough year as far as the weather and the moon phases. I will also add that 21 is no where close to where it used to be. I can vividly remember growing up in Meeker when my dad was the Road and Bridge manager for Rio Blanco County and we spent tons of time running around in 21 when I was a little guy and 180 plus inch deer where a dime a dozen it seemed. Dad drew the tag about every 3 to 4 years and killed some great bucks. The last year he drew was 05 I believe and he killed a 190ish inch buck and was disapointed... go figure. I drew it in 2010 and it down right sucked. I hunted every day of the season and came home with a 170ish inch typical the last day. I still spend alot of time in the unit but I would never consider burning a gaggle of points on it. It is a fun hunt, and a guy will see alot of deer but finding something big is another story. Majority of the biggest bucks taken this year that I personally know of came out of 'run of the mill" units this year. I've said it before and I'll say it again there truthfully is no "golden unit" in this state that I know of that gives a guy a slam dunk opportunity at a truly big deer. There is a reason a big mule deer is in my and others opinion the hardest of all things to harvest in the west. If i were sitting on alot of points my top picks would be: 44 3rd/4th season , 66 3rd season, 70 4th season, 61 3rd season, 43 4th season...

 

[marburg]

Better have some private land lined up for 43 4th. Very little public land in the winter ground/rut areas there. What little there is gets hammered, I mean obliterated during 3rd season by deer and elk hunters alike.

 

[Lawrence]

I've spent a lot of time and money in 66 for the last 7 years.

I was there today.

It's not worth the money or the points for deer, in my opinion.

 

[COLOhunter]

I drew the third season tag in 12'-saw good numbers of deer but it was a tough hunt. My brother had it last year and while I couldn't join, from the sounds of it I think it was slightly better. I can only imagine that this year was pretty tough with the weather we've had. Maybe the cold/snow we got last week helped out?

 

[tx_packmule]

>I was there today.
>

So what did you happen to see?

 

[Lawrence]

Check your email and/or call me.

 

[Stubaby]

Hey Coloradoboy, do you have any pics of your dads bucks or yours.... Dead or alive you could share whith us.

Nothing turns my crank like a good scoring Colorado hog buck!!!


"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"

 

[elks96]

It is always easy to ask others for opinions! You need to get out yourself and look at the units and see what you think. When I get ready to cash in my points, I will have spent at least the last season in that unit during the hunt! Instead of taking someone's else's word for it get out and see what is happening.

There are just to many variables. What is a god buck, how hard will you hunt. Do you have a vehicle that can actually get around in the unit? Etc. If it is that important then spend a season or 2 with boots on the ground and check it out. Do not rely on others to do your scouting!

I will say this, having saved points for 13 years, I know that in those 13 years I could have easily killed 3 bucks I over 170 in a lesser unit. I am not sure how much longer I can handle not hunting deer on an even decent tag!

Get into the unit and see what you find! Nothing beats boots on the ground and spotting scopes aimed n the brush!

 

[just_a_hunter]

I live in Rangely and have home field advantage. My buddy and I both drew 2nd season last year and it took us 4 points. I killed a nice buck and he killed a great buck. That being said I'll never waste 4 years of my life trying to get another 21 tag.

Todd

 

[DesertGhillie]

Todd, let's see the nice and great bucks!

 

[tailchasers]

Here's 3 from last year. Hardly what we would consider animals or a unit worthy of 4 points. Good hunt but quality just isn't there. Majority of bucks we are seeing taken are them 3.5 yr olds. BTW the far right buck was the largest we saw in 6 days of hunting. We live in Rangely as well and will not be returning to 21 anytime soon. Just not worth the wait. CPW issues a substantial number of tags season wide for 21 so when 400ish bucks are removed each year it makes it darn hard for them to get big.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[DesertGhillie]

The buck on your left has awesome mass and great forks. Would of been a good buck in a couple years.

I've heard there is a pretty big poaching problem going on there. I know of at least two cases myself over the past couple years. Do you think these are some of the gas guys driving around, or GJ residents or ???

Let's be honest, huntin fool and some other media sources pimping units like this one are hurting units, not helping them.... Wish they would shut their mouths, and let hunters figure out hunts for themselves.

 

[tailchasers]

That's my son in the pic there. Not sure how big of an issue the poaching is around here. I now it takes place and hear of some cases each year though.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[just_a_hunter]

My buddies buck. I seen this buck opening day and wasn't ready to punch my tag. I took him in there on the 5th day because I was hunting a monster buck. Luckily he was still around and my buddy was able to close.

This is the buck I took on the 7th day. He is the oldest buck I seen. He is Rome nosed and grey and scarred. Great back end just nothing up front just like 90% of all the other bucks in the unit. I can honestly say I was scouting every day since they moved in and We killed the two of the three biggest bucks we seen. Don't get me wrong, you can drive around and see 200 bucks in a season but my buck is above average for what is taken.

If quantity of bucks is what you are after Unit 21 is for you but as quality of bucks can be taken in "lesser" units with out so much of your life invested in points.

Todd

 

[PonoHunt]

I hunted 21 last year. Here is my opinion on 21

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID32/3749.html#.VHqHC7mPIdk


>Was wondering how the deer hunting
>was this year, we hunted
>it a few years ago
>and was wondering if it
>was worth drawing again, or
>waiting...thanks

 

[elkdozer]

70 in fourth is great if you like the INJUNS driving there hot rod 4X4 DSL and Polaris razors ALL around... and yes even in walk in areas. or mountains where you would expect to be alone.

 

[cabinfever]

I have hunted many of the top units in CO including 21. I took a 180 buck in 21 which was the biggest buck I saw in several days of hunting. I have taken two bucks over 190 in CO, both of which came from 0-2 point units. Aside from unit 44 3rd or 4th, I'm not sure there is a unit worthy of a decade and a half of points.

 

[Simo42]

Would there be any chance that the deer just didn't show up or
are they gone? I was holding out hope that the turn of the calendar
Pushing everything back a week would make all the difference. Doesn't
Sound like that's the case. I know this years second season was les than
Stellar.

 

[Coloradoboy]

21 needs tags cut back.. Too many second season tags. I have seen more good bucks and seen more good bucks taken in 22 than 21 in the last couple years.

Coloradoboy

 

[elks96]

>21 needs tags cut back.. Too
>many second season tags. I
>have seen more good bucks
>and seen more good bucks
>taken in 22 than 21
>in the last couple years.
>
>
>Coloradoboy

In my opinion the last 2 years have been great for 22 however having spent my entire life in 22 i do not think it will hold. My personal theory on the issue, and it has been somewhat backed by recent deer studies in 22 by the Dow. Is that 3 years ago the deer migration in the area saw a shift. Deer summer in the area on the divid road between 33 and 22 and across through the boarder between the corner in 21 22 31 32 etc. All of is higher country. 3 years ago I noticed way more deer migrating north I the late fall than I have seen in years past. At the same time outfitters and friends noticed a decrease in migration into 21. Right now for some reason it seems as if the deer prefer to move in 22 from the higher country and as a result we are seeing more and some of the better bucks. Priorto2007 and 2008 the deer would head north along the 21 22 boarder and eventually more would dump off into Douglas and big rig country than 22.

Currently there is a large scale collaring program in 22. They have been collaring deer in 22 and tracking migration and movements. This year an entire group that was caught and collared on country road 24 in unit 22 have went was further west and are now hanging out over off Douglas creek near horse canyon.

My point, the last couple years have been good in 22, but also seems to have correlated with a decrease in quality in 32, 31, and 21!

If for some reason the animals shift their migration then 22 will decrease and one of the other units will see an increase!

I do know that while I have been seeing fewer deer in 21 they tend to be bigger than the average bucks in 22. I have seen some great bucks in 22, but I still believe that a person best chance at a really big buck would happen in 21.

Speaking with outfitters I know and others who hunt the same units, they feel the same way! It is just a matter of getting lucky... Lucky with the deer, lucky with the weather and lucky while hunting!

I am anxious to see what will happen with the unit 22 deer study over the next 5 years. At some point I predict a shift towards unit 21 in the migration!

 

[Coloradoboy]

Your observations are on point from what I've seen also. 22 has been good to me growing up.

 

[Cohntr62]

>21 needs tags cut back.. Too
>many second season tags. I
>have seen more good bucks
>and seen more good bucks
>taken in 22 than 21
>in the last couple years.
>
>
>Coloradoboy


I certainly respect your opinion as you're much, much more familiar out there than me, but I don't understand the desire to reduce tags just so the trophy quality improves a little. I've never hunted 21, never have enough PPs, but guys on here are saying they see thousands of deer and hundreds of bucks, just not the real wallhangers. Reduced tags in many units are the reason for point creep and difficulty in drawing deer tags, particularly for NRs. Most guys are like me, want to be able to hunt and happy to shoot a good buck. I don't want to wait years just for the chance to get one a little bigger. The allotment in some units is ridiculously low. If you want to increase numbers, do away with the doe tags.

 

[Coloradoboy]

It's simple. Reducing tags creates better quality and a better experience in my opinion. Why does 44 produce great bucks? Low tag numbers and less bucks harvested. There needs to be a handful of units like this. If you're not into the point game go hunt units that are easier draw. Killing big bucks off 0 to 5 point units is a common thing. There's just something special about a 44 deer deer tag, 2/201 elk tag that a lot of us would like to or have experienced in our life times.

Coloradoboy

 

[elks96]

>>21 needs tags cut back.. Too
>>many second season tags. I
>>have seen more good bucks
>>and seen more good bucks
>>taken in 22 than 21
>>in the last couple years.
>>
>>
>>Coloradoboy
>
>
>I certainly respect your opinion as
>you're much, much more familiar
>out there than me, but
>I don't understand the desire
>to reduce tags just so
>the trophy quality improves a
>little. I've never hunted 21,
>never have enough PPs, but
>guys on here are saying
>they see thousands of deer
>and hundreds of bucks, just
>not the real wallhangers. Reduced
>tags in many units are
>the reason for point creep
>and difficulty in drawing deer
>tags, particularly for NRs. Most
>guys are like me, want
>to be able to hunt
>and happy to shoot a
>good buck. I don't want
>to wait years just for
>the chance to get one
>a little bigger. The allotment
>in some units is ridiculously
>low. If you want to
>increase numbers, do away with
>the doe tags.
There is a balance between opportunity and quality! 21 was one of the first quality units I the state. It was turning out lots of great deer. However the quality of bucks has been decreasing and the over all deer numbers have dropped a bunch as well! The big issue is the decrease in total deer numbers, the second issue is 21 is missing an entire age class of bucks. There just are not many 5 to 7 year old deer in the unit despite being a quality tag!

Thus we need to cut back the 2nd season buck tags for a couple years! Trust me, even though a person can go into 21 and 22 and see lots of deer, it is still nothing no where close to what it once was and what it could possibly be...

 

[Coloradoboy]

Exactly. Tons of bucks in 21 that are in 3 to 4 year old age class. Tons of 150 to 160ish inch deer. I would say that every one in 100 are pushing the 180inch class. Not very good for a "high quality unit." 2nd season is where a lot of these younger bucks get taken out and a very few percentile seem to make past their fifth birthday. 10 to 15 years ago 21 was on fire but it's publicity by the likes or sources like Hunting Fool and other "give you all the answers" magazines shot the demand to hunt it by non residents sky high. The only way i see 21 coming back is cutting tags and slowing things down to try and get a higher quality of mature deer in the unit. Time apparently hasn't fixed the issue because we've been waiting close to a decade now.

Coloradoboy

 

[Kayak_to_hunt]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-14 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]I agree that the 2nd season takes its toll on bucks all over but the numbers for 21 are even more interesting. The CPW says that the success rate in 2nd rifle is right around 90%.. Or pretty much every single person with a tag shoots a buck..

There are around 490 buck tags issued every year and this is more than needed IMO. 305 or around 62% of the total tags are issued in the 2nd season again at a 90% success rate..

As I said in the gunny thread if they would cut the 2nd season tags by 2/3 for 3 years in a row and we would see the age class return.

 

[Coloradoboy]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-14
>AT 09:40?AM (MST)
>
>I agree that the 2nd season
>takes its toll on bucks
>all over but the numbers
>for 21 are even more
>interesting. The CPW says
>that the success rate in
>2nd rifle is right around
>90%.. Or pretty much
>every single person with a
>tag shoots a buck..
>
>There are around 490 buck tags
>issued every year and this
>is more than needed IMO.
> 305 or around 62%
>of the total tags are
>issued in the 2nd season
>again at a 90% success
>rate..
>
>As I said in the gunny
>thread if they would cut
>the 2nd season tags by
>2/3 for 3 years in
>a row and we would
>see the age class return.
>
I think we both think alike Kayak

Coloradoboy

 

[Cohntr62]

The other side of the argument is those hunters who can't draw the premium units filter into the other units, thus creating difficulty in getting a license in those units, as well. I'm a NR and we come out every 2 years, having hunted 3,4,11,12 and 23. It's getting now that even with the 1 PP we get in our off year, drawing a deer license is iffy. There's no way anymore that you can draw a tag on a 2nd choice in order to get a PP with the 1st choice. And the reason for this is so those few hunters able to draw premium units can get a 180 class deer instead of a 150. And as was said, there are always a handful of trophies in every unit. Many of us are happy with 22-24 wide 4x4s with a slight chance at a bigger one. Even though I'd love to, I'll never get the chance to hunt a premium unit because of the high PP requirements.

 

[Coloradoboy]

The units you're hunting is your problem... There are a good number of gems in this state you can find big deer. Majority of the big deer my family, friends and myself have killed have came in 0 to 3 point units.

Coloradoboy

 

[elks96]

>The other side of the argument
>is those hunters who can't
>draw the premium units filter
>into the other units, thus
>creating difficulty in getting a
>license in those units, as
>well. I'm a NR and
>we come out every 2
>years, having hunted 3,4,11,12 and
>23. It's getting now that
>even with the 1 PP
>we get in our off
>year, drawing a deer license
>is iffy. There's no way
>anymore that you can draw
>a tag on a 2nd
>choice in order to get
>a PP with the 1st
>choice. And the reason for
>this is so those few
>hunters able to draw premium
>units can get a 180
>class deer instead of a
>150. And as was said,
>there are always a handful
>of trophies in every unit.
>Many of us are happy
>with 22-24 wide 4x4s with
>a slight chance at a
>bigger one. Even though I'd
>love to, I'll never get
>the chance to hunt a
>premium unit because of the
>high PP requirements.

Sorry but the handful of truly limited trophy units is not the cause of PP creep! The simple fact is there are more hunters than the resource can support thus, people will gain a PP! The biggest flaw with your argument is you fail to recognize the units you mentioned are way down in populations. Thus a tag reduction was implemented! One of the unit you mentioned had several hundred left over tags prior to 2007/2008. Sorry but Mother Nature is the reason you are not drawing tags! It has nothing to do with the few limited units managed for trophy and everything to do with supply and demand. There is a small supply of deer, with relatively high demand and as a result the cost to hunt has increased! Points cost!

I do not feel bad for anyone at all! You make a choice to hunt the unit and hunt you want. The odds are pretty straight forward, and a person can still chose what hunt they want! As a resident last year was the first year I shot a buck in almost a decade. I have been playing points as well and in that time I have had a hard time getting a second choice to work for me. My cost now has been 12 years of point and not hunting for deer at all for 8 years and hunting a marginal 2nd choice tag for 4 years! After all of that I do believe that I should draw a unit where a 180 class buck is very reasonable!

 

[Coloradoboy]

3,4, 11,12 and 23 are nothing to write home about unless you're on some of the promo leased ground with an outfitter is the truth of the matter.

 

[Coloradoboy]

>3,4, 11,12 and 23 are nothing
>to write home about unless
>you're on some of the
>primo leased ground with an
>outfitter is the truth of
>the matter.

 

[Kayak_to_hunt]

I will never draw a premium unit but have done relatively well in 0 - 5 point units. My father has a bucket load of resident points and at 71 years old hopefully I will be able to talk him into using them for a premium unit and hunt here sometime soon.

Frankly I dont see point creep as a problem at all and dont believe point creep discussion should play any part in the discussion of tag allocation. The resource is what it is.

Premium units are very valuable/needed - so that hopefully a lot - I mean a whole lot - of guys will chase em.. The only way a lot of guys will chase them if the quality units are of a very high quality and are noticeably different. Or a premium hunt like 21 is billed should be a special type of hunt (better than decent chance at seeing a 180+) for the guys that will wait that long.

If the CPW cut 2/3 or 200 of the 2nd season tags for 3 years in row the addition of give or take 450 bucks that would be in the 4 - 8 year old class - would be noticed and well received. It would also give the good old huntin gool something to write about again lol!

The quality of the premium units has to return to be not good but great - so that hunters feel the wait is worth it. Or as it is now bunches of guys are dumping points and looking to hunt 0 - 4 point units...

IMO Colorado needs to add some age class to most of the "premium" units as almost any unit has a good buck in it. Or I believe it is of great benefit to us guys that hunt the 0 - 4 point units for the quality to be high on the premium units. As high quality on premium units is what keeps guys chasing these units - even if the points need creep a bit and in turn keeps our 0 - 4 point units just that.

 

[tx_packmule]

They don't have to cut the tags, just add a different code for the draw for a mgmt type tag (3pt or less & folks try to find the biggest 3pt possible). The experience of hunting the unit is there, the 3pt restriction should make those a reasonable draw and numbers are getting shot. Since only a fraction of bucks will ever see 180, the populations have to be too high to produce one behind every bush.

 

[Coloradoboy]

>They don't have to cut the
>tags, just add a different
>code for the draw for
>a mgmt type tag (3pt
>or less & folks try
>to find the biggest 3pt
>possible). The experience of hunting
>the unit is there, the
>3pt restriction should make those
>a reasonable draw and numbers
>are getting shot. Since only
>a fraction of bucks will
>ever see 180, the populations
>have to be too high
>to produce one behind every
>bush.

What you're saying is going to utahs plan? I'm still for cutting tags and tring to get a higher number of the 5 plus year old bucks back. I've grown up in, guided in and spent time in a good portion of premium units in this state and it seems to be a state wide problem. It's the absolute dagger of the gunnison basin. Too man 4 year old and younger bucks get harvested each year by guys simply not wanting to eating tags at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong I've been guilty as a guide, having clients harvest deer in that age class. Yes some of them break the 180 inch mark as 4 1/2 year olds because of the past genetics they've been delt. But they aren't the 6 plus year olds that were consistently being harvested pre 08. Unit 44 is regaining that age class each year and more and more and the proof is in the pudding due to lower number of tags compared to the likes of 21, 54 and 55. 10 years ago (even if i was still crapping in my diapers) I would of taken a 54 or 55 tag over 44...

Coloradoboy

 

[tx_packmule]

If you cut 4pt+ tags in half it'll accomplish that too. The numbers just have to come off or it can be a nonstop cycle of rebuilding a herd. 07-08 proved that managing by not killing much only works until things go bad and even the locals will admit the deer started dying off before things really got bad.

 

[JakeH]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]As much as I hate to say it (cause I am guilty of it as well)the whole Trophy mentalitly is what is doing the most harm on "trophy" class bucks.
And I would agree with Tx_ that on some of the trophy units a managment type hunt would benefit the units.
Because the simple truth of the matter is that in every unit there is only a handful of bucks with the genetic potential to grow a "trophy" size rack.
If you are constantly pulling out the trophy bucks eventually it will have a negitive effect on the herd as a whole.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.

 

[Romulus]

Unfortunately the revenue reduction by cutting those 2nd season tags would be much greater than moving in and out of a few 4th season tags. If the product is good enough to sell all the tags they are trying to sell things will probably not change much. And the tagholders who have waited would rather fill a tag than eat it so someone in the next year or two can harvest that buck when he grows up. The guys who buy landowner tags every year or hunt multiple states can more easily pass up something than the guy who waited even 3 or 4 years and this is his chance and then is back to waiting. And if these guys who are hunting 2nd season decide to hunt other units that take 0-2 pts to draw guess what??? They wont be 0-2 pts any more. We all have our opinions and our own ideals on what would like...at the end of the day Colorado is still the place to go and offers a better chance at quantity and quality than anywhere else by far.