HNTBIGBULLS
Active Member
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I would be more enthused if I had
20 bonus points for Deer Elk and
pronghorn!!!
Hell, even if I had any points!
20 bonus points for Deer Elk and
pronghorn!!!
Hell, even if I had any points!
Up to 0-20 On Controlled tags!
- Thread starter HNTBIGBULLS
- Start date
Dont be to upset, I was born and raised in Idaho and have never drawn a tag. Been putting in for deer, elk, and antelope for 14 years and gotten nothin but a goose egg. Pretty sh*tty how some guys can draw tags every year yet we get stuck going o-fer every year! Absolutely no justification if you ask me, none. All you points naysayers ponder this one and see how you would feel on the issue if you were in our shoes????????
tworivers
Active Member
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- 808
Plus one lip curl..... there are antlered tag's that can be drawn as a second choice and in some instances don't sell out... "I never get anything for my money" (NonR) But the opportunity to come EVERY year and buy an any weapon tag over the counter for deer and elk , bear,cougar exist's in Idaho. It would be nice to do that in the states of Colorado..Arizona,New Mexico, Utah ect and not have to choose archey only. You are not being victimized. It was this way pre wolf when the hunting was great, and the product was worth the license you already chose to buy. and now that it is not so great. And it is still that way for now... Then I put in for the states of Nevada, Oregon, Utah, and nothing but point build up.
Never have pulled a New Mexico tag, Wyoming I have drawn one high demand and two mediocre deer tags.. I have drawn one quality high demand tag for deer in Idaho and never on elk or Antelope and have never drawn a Moose or sheep tag. It is called a lottery for a reason....
I put in for low probability out of stae tags and expect to not get drawn for that reason. 5...4...3...2..1... Now the points crowd will come and tell us that we don't understand how bonus,preference points work.. blah blah..
Has anyone seen my kittie?
Never have pulled a New Mexico tag, Wyoming I have drawn one high demand and two mediocre deer tags.. I have drawn one quality high demand tag for deer in Idaho and never on elk or Antelope and have never drawn a Moose or sheep tag. It is called a lottery for a reason....
I put in for low probability out of stae tags and expect to not get drawn for that reason. 5...4...3...2..1... Now the points crowd will come and tell us that we don't understand how bonus,preference points work.. blah blah..
Has anyone seen my kittie?
I agree with some points you have made i.e. tuff to draw tags. With that being said how long does it take to draw some of the best tags in Arizona and Utah?? Thats what I thought. Dont give me this points system leads to no OTC tags crap either. Has nothing to do with coming up with a fair DRAW system. Dont just assume that by moving towards a point system for the draws that it will somehow creep towards no OTC tags. Just a great excuse for those who dont want a point system. It was a joke 5 to 6 years ago but now it's getting ridiculous and very frustrating to say the least. Seeing some guys/gals drawing hunts every year and some multiple hunts every year is un-explainable.When the draw odds for hunts that I am putting in for are 15-20% I should be drawing at least here and there. Easy to look the other way when your drawing at least a tag or two in your lifetime, but for guys/gals like me it's just flat out unfair. I am sure there are others that feel the same way I do.
tworivers
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- 808
How long for Utah I will ask my buddy who is at or one year behind the max pool for elk ...not sure of what it sit's at but last I heard was 17-19 years or more. And never drawn, I have 16 myself so.... So ya I thought so too.... Same for my chances on a Arizona strip muley tag.... never statistically in my lifetime at age 40. But a slight chance perhaps?
Who said anything abut taking away otc tags? Huge inference and assumption on your part... I was addressing the yearly complaint that non resident's have nothing to show for the 6 dollar app fee plus license they chose to buy. A point system is no guarantee that you will draw either.. you will always have a statistical outliers to the bell curve. As improbable as it seem's there is a minute chance a max point holder will never draw.
I have two units right outside my door that every year have not had enough applicant's or are drawn on second choice . There are 160 whitetails and 180 plus mulies top end potential. For both these units. I never drew my one Trophy tag until I tried for an area I was unfamiliar with.
As far as a money generating pyramid scheme points system, I am opposed to it because of the states inclination to offer their points monetarily cheap or let you put in for a number of years for just the app fee them slam you with higher app fee or make it upfront app fee's, and as I stated it doesn't seem to make that much difference if you are not in the top of the heap points wise.
So count Oregon, Utah, New Mexico, as states I know what it feels like to not ever even once draw trophy tag. As far as fair nothing is more fair as myself and other's have continually pointed out.. a random even playing field. Where some rich fat cat with deep pocket's cannot sit on top of the pile in points and continue to apply regardless of life's circumstances. That is not the case for average hunter and has caused me to drop out of applying for mutiple species in some states like Wyoming, Montana.
Has anyone seen my kittie?
Who said anything abut taking away otc tags? Huge inference and assumption on your part... I was addressing the yearly complaint that non resident's have nothing to show for the 6 dollar app fee plus license they chose to buy. A point system is no guarantee that you will draw either.. you will always have a statistical outliers to the bell curve. As improbable as it seem's there is a minute chance a max point holder will never draw.
I have two units right outside my door that every year have not had enough applicant's or are drawn on second choice . There are 160 whitetails and 180 plus mulies top end potential. For both these units. I never drew my one Trophy tag until I tried for an area I was unfamiliar with.
As far as a money generating pyramid scheme points system, I am opposed to it because of the states inclination to offer their points monetarily cheap or let you put in for a number of years for just the app fee them slam you with higher app fee or make it upfront app fee's, and as I stated it doesn't seem to make that much difference if you are not in the top of the heap points wise.
So count Oregon, Utah, New Mexico, as states I know what it feels like to not ever even once draw trophy tag. As far as fair nothing is more fair as myself and other's have continually pointed out.. a random even playing field. Where some rich fat cat with deep pocket's cannot sit on top of the pile in points and continue to apply regardless of life's circumstances. That is not the case for average hunter and has caused me to drop out of applying for mutiple species in some states like Wyoming, Montana.
Has anyone seen my kittie?
BPKHunter
Very Active Member
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- 1,749
Jetsled, sorry that it hasn't worked for you yet...but hang in there it will. At least you aren't sitting with ZERO points while others have 15+, virtually guaranteed not to draw for 20 more, but must put in just to hope to get there some day. Have kids? If they turned of age today in Utah, Wyo,....
I know that doesn't help, so I hope you find a better that usual one in your OTC area.
I know that doesn't help, so I hope you find a better that usual one in your OTC area.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-11 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]""But the opportunity to come EVERY year and buy an any weapon tag over the counter for deer and elk , bear,cougar exist's in Idaho."-----Just curious what this quote implied then??
Lets not even bring up an Arizona strip tag in the discussion. Your talking one of the hardest tags in the country to draw. I am talking about tags that generally have a 10-20% draw success.For you to complain to me about out of state prices doesnt bother me a bit. Sorry. In-staters not drawing 20% odd tags in their lifetime is a problem. No way to spin an un-fair system. IN-STATERS pay $6.75 for an app. NOT a top heavy system with rich pigs getting points. For out of staters it is what it is. Pay it, get a point, or dont, bottom line......
Lets not even bring up an Arizona strip tag in the discussion. Your talking one of the hardest tags in the country to draw. I am talking about tags that generally have a 10-20% draw success.For you to complain to me about out of state prices doesnt bother me a bit. Sorry. In-staters not drawing 20% odd tags in their lifetime is a problem. No way to spin an un-fair system. IN-STATERS pay $6.75 for an app. NOT a top heavy system with rich pigs getting points. For out of staters it is what it is. Pay it, get a point, or dont, bottom line......
I just posted this on the "Idaho Draws Online" thread, but thought I would throw fuel on this fire too. I'm one of those people that can't complain about the Idaho draw system. I've had people tell me they hate me, though my luck after the first three years has slacked off some. The first year I had Idaho residency was 2005. Here's what I've drawn:
2005 - Bighorn in the Middle Fork
2006 - Bull Moose, Teton Valley
2007 - Late Deer Hunt Palisades
2008 - Nothing
2009 - Late Deer Hunt Palisades (ate that tag); late cow elk
2010 - Late cow elk
2011 - Unlimited Late Deer Middle Fork (second choice); doe/fawn antelope
However, I'm not necessarily opposed to a change in the system. One thought I've had is to have an initial draw where everyone can put in for only a single hunt, and combine the trophy game with deer, elk and antelope. I think that would tend to help your odds of drawing something decent, at least a little, particularly for deer, elk and antelope.
2005 - Bighorn in the Middle Fork
2006 - Bull Moose, Teton Valley
2007 - Late Deer Hunt Palisades
2008 - Nothing
2009 - Late Deer Hunt Palisades (ate that tag); late cow elk
2010 - Late cow elk
2011 - Unlimited Late Deer Middle Fork (second choice); doe/fawn antelope
However, I'm not necessarily opposed to a change in the system. One thought I've had is to have an initial draw where everyone can put in for only a single hunt, and combine the trophy game with deer, elk and antelope. I think that would tend to help your odds of drawing something decent, at least a little, particularly for deer, elk and antelope.
tworivers
Active Member
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The Chance to hunt every year? It is the trade off Idaho has for both resident's and nonresident's for no point system.. We are the last of the States where we have the freedom to buy a tag and go hunt 5 miles from the house or 300. I will issue my challenge once again show me another lower 48 western state where the majority of their tags are available to just go buy? Yeah I know you don't care about those other draw states. Where ya think your gonna go if the hunting here declines? I have 15 plus year's applying for mutiple species in the western states.. I have also lived in a few of those Pay to play states as a nonresident for school or work and not been able to return to Idaho to hunt and time or money constraint's prevented me from archery hunting. But I was sol, for a simple rifle hunt that would have maximized my time and money spent. I knew that i couldn't put in for every state for every species.. so you just watch as everyone get's to hunt as resident's or those lucky nonresidents who drew.
I will talk about the strip and all of the western states because they all have a draw system with point or bonus system's it is applicable because that is what you are screaming for here. Point banking in Colorado, turning tags back in Utah and stockpiling points... turn a cluster$&$# into a complete cluster @#^^! But the strip tag? I will according to you points guys draw that tag cause after all it's only fair. One day it will come.. not at my age Yeah right..... You'll be the first to know if it happens. I got a bridge for sale down there too. But your argument is for a point system and you just have to get on any internet forum and listen to the average resident of say Utah who is just not lucky.. and has waited years to draw that one tag..... Wait that sound's just like Idaho... Guess the cure all is quite what it was sold as.
And you probably think if we do get a point system that Idaho is gonna miss out on the chance to charge every one a app and permit fee on each species too huh? So yes they will make the state another draw only hunt. 20% draw odd's? time to put in for the 50 % 40% 30% Cause they exist here in Idaho. I couldn't draw a moose tag out my backdoor at 20% but my buddy drew his in next unit at 15% I should have drawn before him... but didn't but I picked my unit on the best possible chance.
For your to complain about not drawing a 15-20% tag when there are places you could find with research that guarantee you a 100% chance does not bother me either. You have your pet Unit apparently , Good luck next year and I will still cheer on Brittany the first time 12 year old huntress drawing a 45 tag that did not go to some ceo who hunts the world.
Oh yeah i forgot to mention I did draw after 15 years a fall bear tag in Western Idaho..at a paltry 10% draw rate. I must fill my survey's out on time or something. Now go ahead and say i don't know what it is like to apply for a much desired hunt and get unsuccesful.... it happens many times more than I have ever drawn.
But you have your opinion I have mine... I was merely addressing Sean's yearly rant of no special tag. But you may see him here otc cause it's a guaranteed backup only miles from where he lives.
I will talk about the strip and all of the western states because they all have a draw system with point or bonus system's it is applicable because that is what you are screaming for here. Point banking in Colorado, turning tags back in Utah and stockpiling points... turn a cluster$&$# into a complete cluster @#^^! But the strip tag? I will according to you points guys draw that tag cause after all it's only fair. One day it will come.. not at my age Yeah right..... You'll be the first to know if it happens. I got a bridge for sale down there too. But your argument is for a point system and you just have to get on any internet forum and listen to the average resident of say Utah who is just not lucky.. and has waited years to draw that one tag..... Wait that sound's just like Idaho... Guess the cure all is quite what it was sold as.
And you probably think if we do get a point system that Idaho is gonna miss out on the chance to charge every one a app and permit fee on each species too huh? So yes they will make the state another draw only hunt. 20% draw odd's? time to put in for the 50 % 40% 30% Cause they exist here in Idaho. I couldn't draw a moose tag out my backdoor at 20% but my buddy drew his in next unit at 15% I should have drawn before him... but didn't but I picked my unit on the best possible chance.
For your to complain about not drawing a 15-20% tag when there are places you could find with research that guarantee you a 100% chance does not bother me either. You have your pet Unit apparently , Good luck next year and I will still cheer on Brittany the first time 12 year old huntress drawing a 45 tag that did not go to some ceo who hunts the world.
Oh yeah i forgot to mention I did draw after 15 years a fall bear tag in Western Idaho..at a paltry 10% draw rate. I must fill my survey's out on time or something. Now go ahead and say i don't know what it is like to apply for a much desired hunt and get unsuccesful.... it happens many times more than I have ever drawn.
But you have your opinion I have mine... I was merely addressing Sean's yearly rant of no special tag. But you may see him here otc cause it's a guaranteed backup only miles from where he lives.
greatbasin
Active Member
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- 527
Can someone please explain what is unfair about everybody having the exact same chance every year?
I have drawn some great hunts over the years but there's a reason I don't bother with draws like 45 rifle deer or 40 rifle elk... because 99 times out of 100 you'll be disappointed.
I have drawn some great hunts over the years but there's a reason I don't bother with draws like 45 rifle deer or 40 rifle elk... because 99 times out of 100 you'll be disappointed.
>Can someone please explain what is
>unfair about everybody having the
>exact same chance every year?
Thats the most lame, warn-out argument used on here!
Whats unfair about it is situations like my Uncle and Cousin who have drawn 3 times in the area I have put in for the last 12 years, and will most likely draw it again before I do. Or when my father in-law and brother in-law drew the Elk tag I had been trying for 10 years to draw on the first year they decided to apply for controlled hunts.
And the folks talking about the Strip, Henry mountain, and unit 45 and 40 tags are twisting the argument around. Hear me good, 45 DEER,40 ELK AND SOME OTHER LOW ODDS HUNTS WILL STILL BE EXTREMLY HARD TO DRAW, AND MAYBE ONLY ONCE OR TWICE IN A LIFETIME WITH POINTS. I have not heard anyone argue that. I/we are mostly talking about the units with decent looking odds 1-in-3, 1-in-5 odds that you would think after 12 years of applying you might get once or twice.
>unfair about everybody having the
>exact same chance every year?
Thats the most lame, warn-out argument used on here!
Whats unfair about it is situations like my Uncle and Cousin who have drawn 3 times in the area I have put in for the last 12 years, and will most likely draw it again before I do. Or when my father in-law and brother in-law drew the Elk tag I had been trying for 10 years to draw on the first year they decided to apply for controlled hunts.
And the folks talking about the Strip, Henry mountain, and unit 45 and 40 tags are twisting the argument around. Hear me good, 45 DEER,40 ELK AND SOME OTHER LOW ODDS HUNTS WILL STILL BE EXTREMLY HARD TO DRAW, AND MAYBE ONLY ONCE OR TWICE IN A LIFETIME WITH POINTS. I have not heard anyone argue that. I/we are mostly talking about the units with decent looking odds 1-in-3, 1-in-5 odds that you would think after 12 years of applying you might get once or twice.
greatbasin
Active Member
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- 527
In 16 years I've drawn 11 tags, 2 depredation hunts and 1 Supertag but maybe I should quite applying because it's just not fair that I have to go to work for long hours everyday and don't have much time to scout or hunt.
I think some people confuse unlucky with unfair...but hey the big picture is...life is unfair. Hell, my 13 year old daughter has already drawn 2 tags.
I think some people confuse unlucky with unfair...but hey the big picture is...life is unfair. Hell, my 13 year old daughter has already drawn 2 tags.
Great for you and your daughter greatbasin! Nobody has said that anyone lucky enough to draw tags should feel guilty and take it upon themselves to make the system more fair and spread the tags around. You should keep applying and so will I, I don't hate you I hate the system (and my bad Luck).
greatbasin
Active Member
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- 527
Right on Moosey...hope your luck changes soon.
I
IDshooter695
Guest
The only fair draw is a once in a lifetime draw for hunts like 45 deer and use a point system like Washington. It took me 10 yrs to draw there but I knew every year I was getting closer and I could still go general in those years I didn't draw. Although after my draw hunt I really am torn between how neat those draw hunts are. The hunt itself was pretty easy to obtain a buck that most don't get during general. I hate to think that hunting is going to get to be how lucky a person is to be drawn instead of the effort he or she puts forth to obtain a trophy. Some of my smaller trophies that I got on OTC hunts, I hold in higher regard because they took more planning,more effort and skill to obtain than that bigger trophy that I took on the draw hunt, just because i got lucky to draw. Something for those that didn't get drawn to keep in mind.
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