Utah Statewide Mule Deer Plan

W

wileywapati

Very Active Member
Messages
1,808
Back in December the 5 year management
Plan for mule deer in Utah expired.

I know a new committee is in the works, including
A couple MM regulars. I asked to be on it again
And got a polite no. SMH??

I would hope that what comes out of this committee
Will include more than raising age objectives on the
Henry's and buck to doe ratios on the other LE units
As well as the GS units.

I would also hope that the Committee will listen to the
Deer hunters in the state when the survey is complete
And develop a plan to get hunters back hunting again
And not sitting home on the couch.

I would also hope that a couple dudes from Teasdale
Or Monkey Town won't strong arm the WB in to
Believing that bucks do in fact give birth and rework the
Sumbitch a few months in.

Do work men, come up with a plan to help the herds
And hunters.

Good luck.

WW



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Thing we know for sure about the committee!!


1. Hand Picked
2. Yes Men
3. Little Educational/Experience Background related to Biology.
4. All members will be wasting their time as the result has been preformulated.
5. Hunter and Deer numbers will continue to dwindle.


Anybody want to add to it or bet me lunch on it?
 
Mulepacker,

If you omitted number one from your list you would have just covered the vast majority of members on this website.
 
How the hell ya been TS???
Hope you and the family wintered well.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I have been very well Wiley. Glad you asked. We have all been working a little too hard through the winter but I am planning some fun for the summer.

By the way Wiley could you share some of the things you think should be done to change the management direction of the deer herd with Utah?
 
Gordy-

Would you mind posting the names of the members of the committee that put together the current plan? While you are at it, who do you think will be on the committee this next time around? And finally, how are the members of the committee selected and by whom are they selected?

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
Wiley, its might be a good thing that you were left off, not to sound harsh, but the DWR coolaid you drank didn't work...Buck do not birth fawns, but I believe 50% of what the DWR states.
When they say on the San Jaun unit we have 9000 DEER and 15 bucks per 100 does. The truth is about 4000 deer and 7 bucks per 100 does.
IN our area the winter range is huge and 7 bucks will have a hard time breeding all those does on first cycle.

This last season we had a texan in our camp that runs a hunting outfit in Texas and on his ranch he says they run the buck to Doe ratio as close to 1 to 1 as they can get, Yes you heard that right 1 buck to 1 doe, and he says they have better fawning, and much healthier deer herd. He has made lots of money running his ranch, and since it is all on private ground he can run it how he wants but he has an investment he has to maintain, so I tend to believe more from his mouth.

I dont think we need 1 to 1 ratio but Utah has the least amount of bucks per 100 does than any other state.

The last 5 years did nothing for the deer herd to hopefully they will get aggressive and try things out of the box and not lean towards what hasn't been working.
 
Tri, mule packers initials are TS. We go way back
And is a guy I consider a friend as well as mentor.

Hawk. The plan pre 2010 was put together by reps
From SFW, MDF, BOU, UBA, reps from each RAC
Farm bureau, public rep, forest service, BLM
And so on.

This plan lasted about a year and a half before
The peoples republic of southern Utah came up
With their unit management plan and basically
Shizcanned several months worth of work by all
Involved in the committee. The Wildlife Board was
Complicit in doing every bit of what you have had
Since. So year one was committee, after that was
Bobs Diner in Bicknell with help from the WB.

Cant, I've never said one time in any of the past
Years or moving forward now, if a unit is chronically
Struggling to keep hunting it. In fact I'm in favor
Of shutting the unit completely down until
It hits B to D ratios. That being said, I do trust
What the biologists say vs what Freaking Keele
Johnson sees standing off the side of the road while
He's on his way to or from work.

"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Hand picked as opposed to drawn out of hat? Should there have been an election? Should it have been determined by a multiple choice test or long essay contest? Is it ok to hand pick as long as you're the one picking or is that the true issue, not liking who is picking? Who did pick?

I'll agree with Wiley in wishing the group the best! More deer and healthier herds is something we all want to see! More deer means more opportunity!
 
Sorry Hawk, I missed the second part of
Your question.

The new committee will have reps from
The sportsmans groups. Take out BOU and
Add UWC this time. Land managers and the public.
The DWR usually asks each group to assign a rep
And leaves it to the group to handle it. As far as
Who represents the public I'm not sure how they
Are picked. Like I said I asked and it didn't happen
This time. Probably good, I've been on enough
Of these and I'm sure most are sick of my opportunity
Stench.

I have heard who one of the public reps is, but
Not from the persons mouth so if he wants to speak
Up I'll let him do it.

I know that during the elk, waterfowl and the last deer
Committee the Division was really good about forwarding
Any sportsman input to the whole group if you reach out directly
To them.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Drawn out of a hat has an advantage over handpicking, as long as it is well known that you can put your name in the hat. I would doubt most reading this forum or general public were aware of a committee being formed. An election possibly our system uses that method often. An appointment by committee probably even a better idea. An assignment by the chair of an organization will most likely go to a friend or yes man.

I believe there are a number of educated and experienced folks in the state that could form a viable and valid committee. However, from my experience I admit I am skeptical of the process. To me it does not matter who is picking it is the fact that some one is simply picking. I believe if we want to save the deer then our best minds must sit at the table. Maybe we should ask for resumes and applications and then have a group of experts (could use a few out of stater's for this) select members for the mule deer committee. Should be fairly easy with technology.

I can think of three folks in Cache Valley that certainly could do a lot of good on the committee. However, they will never get a shot because of reputation. Yet, they have decades of combined knowledge, education and experience. Instead we will get someone looking to move up the volunteer conservation organization ladder. Does that make sense?

WW,
I am doing well. Thanks for the compliment of mentoring. My greatest pleasure from my time in the battle was the folks I met. It became apparent who was in it for wildlife and who was in for themselves. Maybe someday wildlife will win.

It is ironic how we don't learn from the past. Mule Deer might have a chance if they were put ahead of trophy hunting. It is interesting how ducks, elk and sheep have all faired with habitat and dynamic herd population first attitude. Somehow it has produced the best hunting in decades for these species.

With that being said, I believe progress has been made in some management circles.

10 years ago, we wouldn't be transplanting deer because it didn't work 20 years before that.

15 years ago there was a no deer feeding policy, regardless of circumstances because someone in the past witnessed deer dying after being fed.

Maybe if we continue to look outside the box and realize we have better methods available than we have ever had the answer will be found.
 
"Drawn out of a hat has an advantage over handpicking, as long as it is well known that you can put your name in the hat."

That is completely incorrect. And what in the world would constitute "well known" and at what point does that just become hand picking again?

"I would doubt most reading this forum or general public were aware of a committee being formed."

True.

" An election possibly our system uses that method often."

Not cost effective.

" An appointment by committee probably even a better idea."

Now we are back to hand picking.

" An assignment by the chair of an organization will most likely go to a friend or yes man."

Welcome to politics. If a committee picks then its the same outcome. If it is brought to a public election then the winner is usually grossly under-qualified but has great hair.

"I believe there are a number of educated and experienced folks in the state that could form a viable and valid committee. However, from my experience I admit I am skeptical of the process. To me it does not matter who is picking it is the fact that some one is simply picking."

Maybe so.

" I believe if we want to save the deer then our best minds must sit at the table. Maybe we should ask for resumes and applications and then have a group of experts (could use a few out of stater's for this) select members for the mule deer committee. Should be fairly easy with technology."

Sounds like you better find a way to tap into the private sector. No it will be far from easy but worth it if you get it right.

"I can think of three folks in Cache Valley that certainly could do a lot of good on the committee."

Do they hold biology related degrees?

"However, they will never get a shot because of reputation. Yet, they have decades of combined knowledge, education and experience. Instead we will get someone looking to move up the volunteer conservation organization ladder. Does that make sense?"

Is there experience all within public service or do they have private sector performance based experience?

Good luck. Yes you make sense.
 
Trilip, I argue with you because I think
You are an idiot. Arguing with MP??

You are in over your head boy.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
He has always been over his head in arguments. Just look at the past with Hawkeye VS Tripster. Who won? We all know that except Tripster.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-14 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]Tripy just likes to talk, could you imagine a road trip with him? I'd need earbuds!
 
What cracks me up is the fact that any of you little kids think this is about winning or loosing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-14 AT 03:10PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-14 AT 02:51?PM (MST)

WILY,

A couple of questions that might help us understand the mentality of the committee as a whole.

1. How did you apply for the committe,, E-mail, phone call, in writing, in person,,,,?

2. How were you notified that you were not going to have a seat, and how long did it take them to get back to you or was it just an out of hand no thank you?

3. Was there a reason given for the no thank you?

4. Who was the person that you were in contact with?

5. Can you identify the user names of the 2 MMs on the committee that you mentioned, so we can search thier post to get us some insight as to thier thinking?

6.Do you think that your 1100 post on MM were used while evaluating you suitabilaty for a seat on the committee?

Good for you for trying to get involed!

Thanks,, Cast
 
"What cracks me up is the fact that any of you little kids think this is about winning or loosing."

Says a grown man who's favorite line is, "I own you, boy."
 
I think Utahns that love their hunting should protest for changes if they are needed. The LGBT group seems to be winning by protest and legal actions so why don't hunters unite?
I joined the NBA finally. I added a nice contribution to the UDOW when I applied for a Utah hunt today and I'm a nonresident. I'm wing to help in Idaho and Utah and anywhere I can . It's time for action.
 
Castnshoot, fair questions

1. How did I apply for the committee??
I sent an email to the Big Game Coordinator and Director Sheehan
Asking if there was room for a sportsmen or public
At large rep on the committee.

2. How was I notified and how fast.
Return email from the Big Game Coordinator
Within 30 minutes. He mentioned that this committee
Was bigger than the last committee and that they had it
Covered.

3. Reason given for the no.
The Big Game Coordinator felt the committee was large enough.

4. Who did I contact.
I emailed Justin Shannon ( big game coordinator )
And Director Sheehan.

5. Can I name the 2 MM regulars??
I can but I won't. Out of respect for them it's not my
Place to do so. I can tell you that both are extremely
Bright and both love mule deer. I completely disagree with
One on what he believes to be the path forward and the way
He went about change. The other I agree with often and when
I don't agree he usually convinces me that I'm being an idiot in
Short order.

6. Do I think posting on MM had anything to do with getting a no??
Nope, the guys on the committee know what I'm about. People
In the old regime at the Division know what I'm about. Director Sheehan
Has always taken the time to address any concerns I've sent his way.


My point in bringing all of this forward is to try and get people involved.
Hunter apathy in Utah is ridiculous. For the Utah Division Of Wildlife
Resources to turn away a member of the public that actually wants to be
Involved, take time away from their family to be part of this and being told
We don't need you, highlights their public outreach shortcomings.

In a way Mulepacker is 100% correct. If you think about it we've had basically
The same 20 or so guys make the rules for the past decade. So hand picked
Would be correct.

As I said hunter apathy is what this system feeds on. When a small group
Has the ability to basically sway the Wildlife Board in to doing their bidding
It means enough people either don't care or aren't paying attention.
The Wildlife Board has no accountability to anyone and it's just flat
Wrong.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-14 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the heads up I am going to find out who is on the committee and give input.
Thank you!
 
Members of the committee would be public information. A simple request to the DWR should get you the list. However, if the DWR holds true to its position you may have to file a formal GRAMA act request.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-14 AT 01:58PM (MST)[p]Wiley, Thanks.

I understand your points. By the same token we have to be careful about opening these types of committees up to "Too" much of a democratic process.

Too much democrisy can, and is messing up a good republic. I am not talking about you having a seat on this committee when I say that.

I would say keep on trying, by using some of the conections that you have. People come and go on these committees all the time, ask them if your name has been placed on a list.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-14 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]Go figure----

Do any of these $$$ Con orgs really/truly care about wildlife??

Robb
 
If I had a vote for a Cache Valley rep Mule Packer would be great IMO. We have had a Cache Valley muledeer work group in the past. We tried. Mule Packer was on that committee. Little change in the long run occured IMO.
 
Wiley,
You and I have sat on opposite side of the fence in certain situations but you my friend are one of the people I respect the most when it comes to wildlife. You have always put your money where your mouth is. Thanks for posting this information up. I would love to see a list of people on the committee so I could personally thank them for their efforts. Trying to get something done in Utah, when it pertains to wildlife, is a huge undertaking. Whether we agree on issues or not, these folks should be applauded and thanked for their efforts.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Appreciate the kind words Jim, back at ya.

Be ready to pack a stinky in 2015 brother.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
So, what are the ideas from the group to grow
More deer, while getting more hunters back in
The field??

We've got 30 units, surely there is room for some
Progressive thought to take place in a few of these
Areas.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Gee wizz Pig, thanks for your input. What would the folks of Utah ever do without you.

Now go hurry up and finish my mount, boy.
 
WW,
I agree. I know I have my thoughts and they include more opportunity. I hope the group is successful.
 
wow, and these groups have done such a great job so far,,,,30 worthless units, loss of hunters. more cwmu,s ,sure glad they are working for us gen hunters,,,,,
 
elkun,
Always focusing on the negative has to get old doesn't it? Hopefully the committee can work toward a plan that benefits the deer herds and all hunters. I think Wiley is right in saying we should support this committee and give input I know they have individuals that have different views but the same goal of helping our herds. That's the most important thing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-14 AT 03:46PM (MST)[p]I'd propose looking at best practices for successful
Units and try implementing them on our chronically
Below objective units.

Two trains of thought: limit hunters or limit access
There are models ( units ) that support both.
Specifically the Henry's ( limit hunters ) and the
Wasatch Front ( limit motorized access )

Limiting hunters has about hit the point of diminishing
Returns. Limiting hunters builds on the dependency of tag
Pimps to provide funding. It also aids in hunter apathy which
Encourages run away Wildlife Boards and Legislatures.
Limiting hunters does however limit buck harvest which
In turn helps provide excess bucks for harvest while maintaining
A trend of reaching B to D ratios.

Limiting access will take hunters out of certain units because either
They can't or don't wish to hunt a unit they physically can't access.
Limiting access also provides escape for game during the hunts.
While providing ample opportunity for hunters to participate if they so
Wish.

Both of these philosophies work. The Henry's produce
Monster bucks that you can apply for a lifetime for
And never hunt. The Wasatch Front, while not producing
What would be considered a Henry's monster, produces some
Damn fine deer that still provides opportunity for a ton of hunters
That like to feel their lungs and calves burn.


Keep in mind this type of restriction would apply to the depressed
Units that can't trend to B to D objective.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
muley 73' you can sugar coat it all yon want. ive been to these meetings for 40 fujjjjj years.so don't tell me they give a shizz about us, its( money first)'money second 19 years to do a study they allready did. time after time, its a joke , and if believing in them, makes you happy go for it.i did for first 20 years,,,,no more,,,,,,
 
"I'd propose looking at best practices for successful
Units and try implementing them on our chronically
Below objective units." WW

My understanding was that the smaller units theory was designed to do exactly this. I would hope that they stick to a certain plan long enough to see if it works and if it doesn't then make the adjustments appropriately and move on. Utah has a long history of not giving a plan long enough to work. Pulling the plug on efforts of certain committees before they even have a chance to evaluate the process.

And I am a HUGE proponent of limiting mortorized access!!!! A plan with this in place would be long overdue IMO. And I own several 4 wheelers.




It's always an adventure!!!
 
elkun,
Sugarcoat what? You don't even know who is on the group? You don't even know what their plan or ideas are? Whine a little more! That solves all issues!
 
keep believing , muley, maybe call dad. tell each other to keep the faith,,,,,i hope your right and I am wrong, but that's not going to happen, facts is facts . as long as we sell tags . have cwmu s expos, banquets ect,,that's what they will care about, money money. no whining about it,,,,,
 
QUOTE ELKUNS: "And I am a HUGE proponent of limiting mortorized access!!!! A plan with this in place would be long overdue IMO. And I own several 4 wheelers."

I too like limiting motorized access, but to just make sure people stay on the roads and trails that exists, but having bad knees, where would that leave me? Do you have horses? Can you have one ready for me for the hunt?

What is wrong with a committee studying the deer issue. If it is like most the RAC's and BGB they don't get paid. Cheap labor and may do you some good.

I think the SFW do some good, but I don't like the direction they are taking us with an emphasis on Guide Services and CWU units. It certainly is a money game now. Not like the old days.
 
Gordy,

There is one other huge factor that comes into play with the "Wasatch Front" other than accessibility and that is weapon choice.
 
CBall, I ain't exactly what you'd consider
A physical specimen. Closing in on 50, and plenty of
Winter coat that needs to go, so I hear ya on the access issue.

I know a couple of drainages on the Wasatch Front
That put out giant bucks every year. Access is pretty
Much straight up and beat my ass 15 years ago when I was in
Decent shape. It's my goal to be up there in November.
I realize you have knee issues and I have beer and ribeye issues,
But limiting access provides more escape / sanctuary for deer.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Jerry I agree, but at the same time I've
Seen no decline in overall deer populations from
I - 80 north to Bountiful. This section of the Front
Gets slammed by all weapon types from mid August
Till the cow hunts are over the end of January.
You know as well as I do what these deer do once that
First smoke pole goes bang until the rut starts.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I'm not so insensitive that I don't understand those guys that can't get around like they used to. That's one of the main reasons my Dad hung up his hunting boots years ago. I understand. But, like Wiley said, game animals need a respit time. Especially in Utah, deer and elk get pounded from mid August until January. Take a look at an arial photo of the area around Strawberry Reservoir. It would be impossible to get lost on this unit. Just start walking in any direction and you will find a road within an hour at the most. So I think seasonal closures on unimproved roads, i.e. 2 tracks, non graveled, etc. would be a great thing. Maybe a starting place would be those units that are significantly under objective. At least do this on recovering units and see if it works. Make a plan that can be evaluated, stick with it and if it works use it to improve other units.

I'm not naive enough to believe that this is the only issue. A combination of limited access both on motorized vehicles and licenses issued is a good combination. Give the "hunter opportunity" on units that are doing well and above objective. Just some random thoughts and from an old guy with an oppinion that doesnt mean much but to me it makes sense.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
There is not question road closures would make a huge difference in providing sanctuary for big game animals. Wilderness Areas have worked as well. In the past seasonal road closures have not been a popular thing with the general non-hunting public but from a hunter's perspective it would help relieve some pressure on the animals. Personally, I'd support it, it would mean I'd never be able to hunt the area again but I'm okay with that, if it would help grow our big game populations and preserver the hunting/fishing lifestyle for future generations.

In an much as roads on public lands are not regulated by anyone in the wildlife agencies but by the US Forest Service and the BLM, this issue must be brought up with them and based on there current road closure activities I'm positive a coalition of hunters and fishermen, making a well prepared presentation, to these agencies would be well received and they would be most anxious to accommodate the wishes of sportsmen on this matter.

I could be wrong but I don't believe the UDWR would see road closures as an issue they could address, one way other the other. Just my opinion of course.

DC
 
Limiting access may help bucks become bigger, but I do not think it will have a big overall effect on total deer numbers. May save a few bucks to become bigger, but will not save many does that have the fawns. If you are looking for a high buck/doe ratio, then it would help, but not so much on overall deer numbers.
 
CS, I'm a huge believer in the theory of fecundity
As it applies to deer. In fact I put more weight behind
This than pretty much any other horse we've beaten over
The last 20 years.

Why aren't doe's receptive during the first cycle?
Why isn't every doe giving birth?
Why are doe's becoming infertile at younger and younger
Ages?
Why isn't fawn recruitment, not only in to the herd, but also
As a productive breeding doe slumping?

CS, I've watched the herd on the Front be decimated
By winter in the mid 80's and again in the early 90's.
It seems to me the recovery was faster and more complete
Where access was limited, even with the habitat challenges
Mixed in the herds on the front rebounded well.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
To think that road closures might be a good answer to get things started... and then they go and pave the road to the book cliffs...
 
>CS, I'm a huge believer in
>the theory of fecundity
>As it applies to deer. In
>fact I put more weight
>behind
>This than pretty much any other
>horse we've beaten over
>The last 20 years.
>
>Why aren't doe's receptive during the
>first cycle?
>Why isn't every doe giving birth?
>
>Why are doe's becoming infertile at
>younger and younger
>Ages?
>Why isn't fawn recruitment, not only
>in to the herd, but
>also
>As a productive breeding doe slumping?
>
>
>CS, I've watched the herd on
>the Front be decimated
>By winter in the mid 80's
>and again in the early
>90's.
>It seems to me the recovery
>was faster and more complete
>
>Where access was limited, even with
>the habitat challenges
>Mixed in the herds on the
>front rebounded well.
>
>
>"The future is large scale auction
>tags.
>The majority of the tags should
>go up
>for auction anually. It MIGHT even
>be
>good to allow second sales of
>auction
>tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
>
>and then re-selling them to the
>public."
>TRISTATE 8/17/2012

Gordy,

I too am a huge proponent of fucundity, especially in Mule Deer. Unfortunately, game agencies are STILL trying to find the answers to the questions you pose by using out-dated philosophies that have already been done over and over. Time for a fresh approach to seek those answers, and that approach is under way. Check your PM box ;-)

By the way, I would support restricted vehicle access in some areas as I agree with the premis of why to do it, up to a point.


www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
Got the PM, Still.

Lemme know!!



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Lumpy, I agree road closures would save animals, but the older I get the more I am out there on a UTV or truck to see the scenery, see wildlife, or go fishing, than I am to hunt. I would diabolically object closing roads. The fall is the best time to hit the mountains and multiple use is in the government plan. However I would agree that if you held a license there would be only certain roads you could travel during that hunt - - - well on second thought no I wouldn't, someone would find a way around the obvious. No road closure here for me.

Not only that, but when they start, they don't know when to stop.
 
Who's on the committee isn't as important as who's chairing the committee. Bringing a room full of guys with different agendas and opposing ideas to a point of consensus requires skill. Most of us don't have that skill and it isn't included with a biology degree. Without an effective chair, time is wasted, certain voices can dominate, others are never heard and the draft plan doesn't get the necessary roll-out.
 

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HIcountryman

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Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

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Unbelievable Monster Bull
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