Utah Welfare permits.

fishon

fishon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,052
Give me all the conservation tags and expo tags, I will market them and return 95% to the dwr to use for Utahs wildlife. I will keep 5% for my expenses and time. I will generate more money then the current conservation groups do and my track record moving permits backs that up.

Then the current groups will shrivel up like a dying weed and go away because their welfare checks have stopped showing up. But we will have more money for Utahs wildlife, 100% transparency and all but the current welfare recipients and kool aid drinkers will be happy.

That will mean 95%+ of Utahs hunters will be satisfied with the program and there will really be more OPPORTUNITY for ALL.....

Tony Abbott
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Didn't somebody call you PEAYDAY JR a while back?



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
How about you do the truly noble thing and DONATE your time..??


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
BR stated: "How about you do the truly noble thing and DONATE your time..??"


Geez, the guy has to make a living! If he made a million dollars onit, his cut at 5% would be a measily $50,000. I wouldn't want all the hours and grief you would probably have for that kind of money.
 
People don't need tags as incentive to donate to wildlife. And if people really need tags as incentive to support an organization, well, that says something about the organization, don't it?
 
Not much better... As long as we manage our herds to provide
the highest return for wealth tags and landowner tags, we ain't doing much for opportunity.

I would also suspect that in a way, either directly or round about the proceeds from these tags and convention tags are being used against us.. Flying to DC ain't cheap.. An audience with the legislature?? Go ahead and call your Rep and let us know how it goes... And the best one. how about handing over a check for a couple hundred grand in the middle of a Wildlife Board Meeting??





2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
How about this:

-Get all of the thousands of auction tags back in the NORMAL DRAW!
-Quit subsidising Guides, and orgs, but selling tags.
-Quit believing the BS that these permits give the "needed fund" to move forward
-Increase license and tag fees by about 1 dollar each to make up the funds.
-Auction off 2 tags per species like other states.

WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER GROUP, OR INDIVIDUAL HANDLING TAGS.
 
>Give me all the conservation tags
>and expo tags, I will
>market them and return 95%
>to the dwr to use
>for Utahs wildlife. I will
>keep 5% for my expenses
>and time. I will generate
>more money then the current
>conservation groups do and my
>track record moving permits backs
>that up.
>
>Then the current groups will shrivel
>up like a dying weed
>and go away because their
>welfare checks have stopped showing
>up. But we will have
>more money for Utahs wildlife,
>100% transparency and all but
>the current welfare recipients and
>kool aid drinkers will be
>happy.
>
>That will mean 95%+ of Utahs
>hunters will be satisfied with
>the program and there will
>really be more OPPORTUNITY for
>ALL.....
>
>Tony Abbott
>The next buck to have a
>fawn will be the
>1st.

My,oh my! Am I the only one who sees Tony's clever satirical proposal? I get your point, Tony, and you're right; Almost ANYONE can do it cheaper and better than it's now being done!
 
Lee

That is what people need to understand. These tags will sale for what they sell for as long as it is not an absolute moron selling them.

When I left SFW and went to MDF and took a bunch of permits from the "other" group they stood up at the board meeting and cried foul that MDF could not market the tags cause they didnt have the experience and the state of Utah would suffer.

Well that "other" group got their head handed to them by the wildlife board because the board knew my track record and it was proved that 1st year as we blew up the prices of these tags.

Then after the "group" realized they were not gonna get the tags I got for MDF they had the acting director at the time "who now is the MDF CEO" go and created about a dozen or 15 EXTRA tags to appease the whining groups because they said the needed them for the banquets.

There is NOTHING special about the way MDF or SFW promotes these tags. In fact they are doing it just like we did it when I was with both of them only they are doing a worse job in my opinion.

The expo tags could actually generate more money then they currently do but the groups are not smart enough to figure out how.

Without the UTAH conservation permits and the UTAH EXPO permits SFW and MDF would be non factors in the wildlife arena. MDF was nothing and on their last leg before they got all the Utah permits and SFW was sucking for air before they got them. Then the EXPO tags gave both groups hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of FREE WELFARE money that has no accountability or rules that makes them put money back into the state that they continue to abuse.

Cut off their welfare checks and they both go away. And after they get humbled maybe they start doing things for wildlife and sportsman again rather than just for paychecks and politics.

Of course this is just all my humble opinion, and what do I know.....

Tony Abbott
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 12:41?PM (MST)

So Tony to summarize what you are really saying is you are not a moron is that correct:) and all the other guys are or 'not smart' Sorry I couldn't resist that one...

Tony, I've always considered you a friend but I have to say honestly I'm amazed after all of what you said a few years ago you would honestly in your heart of hearts come on here and make a statement like you did. I just don't get it, I thought you were all about the little/common man.

If anyone who is not a mornon could sell them and sell them for more that what the 'group' is selling them for. If its really about generating a pot of money so we can get matching dollars from the feds and do things on the ground for wildlife, why not let the UDWR sell them and take out the middle man.

That way 100% goes back into the pot and we already know UDWR has to be accountable to the public for where those dollars are spent? Just thinking out loud here.

Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
>How about this:
>
>-Get all of the thousands of
>auction tags back in the
>NORMAL DRAW!
>-Quit subsidising Guides, and orgs, but
>selling tags.
>-Quit believing the BS that these
>permits give the "needed fund"
>to move forward
>-Increase license and tag fees by
>about 1 dollar each to
>make up the funds.
>-Auction off 2 tags per species
>like other states.
>
>WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER GROUP,
>OR INDIVIDUAL HANDLING TAGS.

Very well put.

If SFW, MDF, and RMEF are doing such wonderful work, let them have a bake sale to raise money. People will pay $100 a cupcake if the cause is good enough. If they can't raise enough money, well, get a real job.

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 01:00PM (MST)[p]B_B---My impression or take when reading the posts Tony put up was that if the progam was going to stay in the hands of private parties, rather than the DWR, that he could do it and put tons more money back in than is done at the present time. A 5% commission compared to $5 a pop and nothing being accounted for right now is almost like letting the DWR do it themselves. Actually, it would probably be cheaper and more cost effective when figuring what even one state employee costs the taxpayers nowadays. That said, IMHO a program such as we're talking about should be handled by the DWR to eliminate all the BS that we're talking about when private entities get their hands in the pie and the hanky panky starts because of the huge monies involved.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 01:38PM (MST)[p]Todd,
I think he means, I miss those days when I used to get a piece of the pie concerning conservation permits. He used to work for SFW, said it was him or Don, they gave him the boot. Went to MDF. Worked a couple years. Helped built his home on the hill with the 10% administration fee's from the "welfare tags" he was in charge of, prior to being fired by MDF.

Now since he is the smart, and everyone else is stupid,he is willing to sell and benifit from "welfare tags a second time for 5% instead of the 10%. Half is better than none.

IF the sportmen will rally and do this, we will have opportunity for piss cutters like know one has ever seen.

I'm not sure, that is what he said, because I'm not as smart as Tony is. But I think this is what he is saying.

I think Tony is basically a good guy. He is funny in his thinking sometimes. I maybe also.
 
So why doesn't Tony take and put a group together and make things better. He as all ready said that he saved SFW and MDF so he must know what he is doing. He already said that he could sell these permits for more money than any of the other groups. It would be a great job where Tony was saving wildlife while also working for the little guy who you all say needs help in the State as these other groups are not for the little guy. He said he set up the expo, so he could set up another one and run the tags through it and help out the little guy. Come on Tony, help us all out. You can do it.
 
Sorry Tony, I got a better idea...
I think we should take every public draw tag and give them all to SFW for them to do with as they please. IWho needs public draw tags anyway? Wouldn?t they all be better off sold to the highest bidder and handed out like candy at SFW banquets and the expo? Furthermore, I wouldn't burden them with showing where the money goes expect maybe a list of projects they did to go along with their mantra of ?Trust us?. Think of all the good SFW can do with more permits!!! If only this model would proliferate throughout the other Western states. Think of how great the hunting could be?for those with $$$ and/or connections. C?mon guys, can we all get behind this?

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 02:41PM (MST)[p]The Birdman better be careful because he may just get what he's asking for in the near future from another organization, LOL! Hey Birdman, why haven't you made any comments on the RMEF 24 page accounting breakdown as compared to your SFW BS, or are you finally seeing the light? Never mind, as I don't want to hear what you might come up with next!
 
How about let the DWR manage the permits and hold them accountable. They, ultimately should be in charge of conservation.

Tony: I cannot believe you would post something like that.
 
Will Topgun, It is like this. I have no need to worry about the RMEF 24 page BS. Most if not all is on their tax return anyway so it is nothing new. I did go through it and could find the same info on their 990 tax return. Nothing new.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-12 AT 03:42PM (MST)[p]To that I say BS, because you have also stated recently that the SFW was giving out as much financial information as the RMEF. Yea, right! That 89% return figure now up on the SFW website is a friggin laugher!!! Sorry man, but you don't know your azz from a hole in the ground and every post you contine to put up confirms it. Troy and ABE are higher ups in SFW and are running a close second after reading their crap the last few days! The shame of it all is that you are all good, hard working guys that could make a difference in getting that group straightened out and increasing it's ranks if you did what was right and wanted to.
 
Hey topgun, since you and fision has all the answers why not put up some of your own $ and fix the problem. It looks like these other groups have failed, in your eyes. Come up with a better plan and I'll join ya.
 
Tony,

I agree with your assessment and the movement that is taking place. ALL groups need accountability.

I wonder what would happen if we just injected all the permits back into the regular draw and added 20$ to the application fee?

BUT..... What all of us need to realize is the CONVENTION is a huge money maker for not only wildlife organizations but Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, State of Utah, and all the businesses downtown who reap the benefits of all those people coming to the state for the convention. Why do you think we keep expanding the Salt Palace Convention Center for the Outdoors Show? Denver would love to have the revenue that is generates and pushes hard to have it moved every time the contract comes up.

Something has to change.

SWAG
 
Greg can't you tell that Tony was baiting you and it worked. He is obviously kidding about this.
 
Just another of "Fishon's" lame ass excuse to Garner attention...I recall a post Tony made a few months back stating that he was done posting on MM because he was "way too busy with his career" to waste his time posting on MM!...Whatever!
 
Topgun, Please, don't say I am a good hard working man. You are ruining my reputation. I have gone over the 990 return of RMEF and also through the other stuff. That is just a way to explain some of the stuff on the 990. Take an honest look. lot of the information is also on the 990 tax form. It would not matter what was put up on the SFW page. You and others would say it is wrong or what ever. It is expected. The truth is known here. Just like Troy and ABE, Their information is correct. Been there and seen it with my own eyes. Hope that you have a great evening.
 
"...why not let the UDWR sell them and take out the middle man. " exactly.

Why the hell anybody would allow a money sucking Expo to be created to sell tags is beyond comprehension.
Well, unless you happen to be one of those on the payee end of that expo of course.
 
Agree- If there is to be tags sold, let the Division of Wildlife of each state that has these do it. At least there payroll is already being paid by every sportsman that hunts regardless of individual thoughts on matters.
Then 100% would be put back into conservation or habitat improvements.
Seems only logical to me.
 
I like how all the SFW apologist took Tonys bait on this thread but on all the other threads that really matter, they are dead silent.
 
Of course they took the bait. They always do. Greg is the best at it and also the least informed. Greg, I RAN MDF for nearly 5 years not 2 and when my contract was up I left was not fired. You have swallowed too much kool aid my friend.If you were told by your all powerful leader to give up one of your nuts because it would be good for Utah and its wildlife you would do it and probably offer him both.

Todd, you took the bait as well, not like you to be tricked so easily. Glad I still can get you fired up.

Hey Kevin, I must be starving for attention like you said because you only make bright, intelligent comments that are 100% correct :)

You guys kill me. But for the record I could and would generate more money off all the welfare tags that are currently being distributed, I would be 100% transparent and accountable and I would do it for less then the current groups do it. But I am not interested.

My post was just something to get you fragile kool aid drinkers riled up while you grasp to your last straw trying to defend the un-defensible.

I have told the DWR several times they should take it in house but they are not interested.

Brace yourselves Kool aid drinkers, you are about to get a mouthful of stuff you don't want. And CCR said it best.

"I see the bad moon a risen, I see trouble on the way, I see earthquakes and lightning, I see bad times today, don't go around tonight, well its bound to take your life, there's a bad moon on the rise".....



Tony Abbott
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Funny Tony. I think I know you pretty well. You like attention. You like to stir the pot. You have hatred for the groups you used to work for. It's obvious.

You call conservation permits "welfare permits." You were very glad to recieve the money from those welfare permits in the past with MDF. Truth be told you would be very glad to be back in the game even at 5%. You worked for SFW, that didn't work out. You worked for MDF, that didn't work out, you worked for Christensen arms, that didn't work out. You have a record of being difficult to work with or not doing your job satisfactory. I'm glad your your own boss now.

Start your own organization as been mentioned. I'm sure it will be perfect since you are smart and everyone else is a moron.

I'm for opportunity and quality. I'm for a better future for our kids. Just because your thoughts are different than others, doesn't make you any smarter.

Tony you have had some good thoughts and suggestions over the years.

I speak for myself. I have been involved as a volunteer over the years. I have always voiced my opinion that Utah should manage their elk herds more like AZ. Provide more opportunity and still have great quality.

It looks like more transparency is needed and forth coming.

I guess we all will have to be prepared for the earth quakes and doom and gloom. I'm prepared, are you prepared?


Greg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-12 AT 09:01AM (MST)[p]Greg-

What is your position on the UWC proposal to increase transparency and accountability with regard to the Convention Permits? Do you personally support it? If not, why not? We need individuals within SFW and MDF to step forward and help us fix this problem. The leadership of these groups seem to be ignoring the cries from the general public but perhaps they will listen to their members.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
"Funny Tony. I think I know you pretty well. You like attention. You like to stir the pot. You have hatred for the groups you used to work for. It's obvious."

Haha :) ...........You don't have to be a former employee to hate'em! We ALL do!

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
Glad you know my work history so well Greg. Maybe I should pay you for advice since you seem to know me better than I know myself.

And NO I would not take the welfare tags over. Yes I marketed them and yes I made money off of them. I have NEVER denied that. And Yes I agree 10% is the correct amount for these group to get for their services. But with that 10% needs to be 100% transparency and accountability. When you are handing over your nads make sure to ask for that transparency.

Hey Todd, I may pretend to be a Moron just like you pretend to be a wildlife biologist :)

Careful about taunting me to start a group, last time I took one over the kool aid got awful slim for the kool aid drinkers.

Tony Abbott
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Tony, what do have against KOOL AID? What other types of restrictions will you have in your new group?
 
Kenny

rest assured that I am not gonna start another group. My problem is not with kool aid as a whole rather than just the current flavor that has been passed around for nearly 20 years.....

Tony Abbott
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
here's a list of ideas:

if conservation groups were allowed to auction off all tags and keep 5% they could probably make more money.

All states could withhold refunds in order for a person to receive a preference point. (Or after an unsuccessful app, charge an additional $500 for a point)

They could break up units into smaller sections and lease out BLM land to those lucky hunters who have a tag ($10/acre divided by number of hunters seems fair)

Have a tag lotto with the odds heavily in the house's favor; someone has to win a raffle, not the case with a lotto.

Give all the tags to the landowners in the units or those willing to lease BLM land and tax the income brought in by tags.

Flat rate of $2000/tag on a first come-first serve basis the week prior to season starting for the tag.

I miss anything obvious?
 

Similar threads

Simpleton
Mule Deer Proposal
2 3
Replies
218
Views
5k
Vanilla
Vanilla
B
New Hunter Looking for some Guidance
Replies
26
Views
1k
BPKHunter
BPKHunter
D
Mule deer decline in Utah
Replies
37
Views
1k
ridgetops
ridgetops

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

IMG_0205.JPG
F589961D-5CDA-4669-A1F7-7C0851A4BFCC.jpeg
Screenshot_20220803-140303_Gmail.jpg
Sportsman Deer.jpg
20201028_161807.jpg
Huge Washington Bull
CB8EB0A6-E23C-426A-A60D-EE2395D07ADE.jpeg
E5D8366B-0457-4E72-BCB9-6CF7C7B3FC43.jpeg
20210713_121159.jpg
PXL_20201118_223431438.jpg
58974E8B-C4A8-4557-A517-45CEEF6854F7.jpeg
3622D12C-9F82-49DD-A3CB-92AC010EB347.png
Back
Top Bottom