Hep-C is blood to blood so shouldn't be a concern except for needle sticks.Wonder what people would think about an HIV or Hep C test as a pre-employment requirement?
The CoV-2 vaccine is not long term like others are. It's stupid to make it a requirement when the virus itself is losing its foothold.
Good question. I'm retired and have no plans on getting a job.Eelgrass why are you doing this?
You should take up turkey hunting. The fishing isn’t as great as it used to be here.Good question. I'm retired and have no plans on getting a job.
Wonder what people would think about an HIV or Hep C test as a pre-employment requirement?
The CoV-2 vaccine is not long term like others are. It's stupid to make it a requirement when the virus itself is losing its foothold.
I don't think any reasonable person is advocating the requirement of vaccination. But, there should be no requirement that an employer MUST employ a certain individual either.Requiring someone to take an experimental vaccine and then something goes south down the road opens the door to litigation.
Nice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!I tried turkey hunting. The only thing that would come to my calls were coyotes. Going halibut fishing Wednesday.
The point is being forced to disclose something normally protected by law...Hep-C is blood to blood so shouldn't be a concern except for needle sticks.
The point is being forced to disclose something normally protected by law...
I loved fishing for Kings in Alaska in May. Out of Sitka and the early run on the Cook Inlet. No better eating fish in the world.Nice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!
I loved fishing for Kings in Alaska in May. Out of Sitka and the early run on the Cook Inlet. No better eating fish in the world.
I can see where an employer would like to see the employees vaccinated. Every year when flu season hit there was a lot of loss in production at the sawmill. 150 employees and 10 a day calling in sick with the flu makes it hard on the other employees too. They offered us $10 flu shots but very few people took advantage of it. I did a few times. And if you miss work you lose the money too.
Agree.I don't think any reasonable person is advocating the requirement of vaccination. But, there should be no requirement that an employer MUST employ a certain individual either.
We can fish for California Halibut right now and Pacific Halibut opens May 1stNice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!
Except that public employers hire private citizens...PRIVATE buisness should be free to do WHATEVER it chooses. Including vaccine requirements, non compliance with handicapped accessibility, and YES, even racial, religious, sexual discrimination.
PUBLIC employers should not have any such leeway.
This entire post is a crock...Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.
If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.
Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Private citizens are free to not applyExcept that public employers hire private citizens...
What about public citizens?Private citizens are free to not apply
So, what's the end game? This vaccine isn't permanent, not like polio or smallpox. If someone can fight it off just fine, they can still spread it. The vaccine allows you to do that. Until you fight it off, you can still spread it.The problem I see as a business owner is that we have an absolute requirement to provide a safe working environment for protected classes (in this case pregnant / nursing / immunocompromised employees). It's not enough to just say "do whatever you want" in regards to the vaccine choice -- the employer has to be able to show they made some effort to protect these vulnerable people.
In our case (my wife & I own our business) we didn't want to require vaccination but did want to strongly encourage it.
Our solution: we offer a large cash incentive to employees to get vaccinated (more than 2-weeks net pay for many of them), paid time for going to the appointments, and a paid day off after each vaccination if needed.
For those that declined (<10%) , they had to sign a waiver stating they are assuming this risk and are on the hook for any lost work time, etc that's COVID related and they have to (for now) get a COVID test every other week.
So far everyone seems happy with the policy.
What I suspect will happen in the future is that entry into numerous venues will be vaccine dependent and it'll at some point become so inconvenient to lack that vaccine that a herd immunity level of the population gets it.
Excellent posts. Well thought-out and concise. Please stick around.I'm not sure (and don't believe anyone is) of the end game. For now this I believe our approach is the best we can do right now.
As for the second part of your post, the latest data contradicts you, quite strongly. The m-RNA vaccines in particular are highly effective at preventing asymptomatic infections (even in kids in the preliminary data dumps) as well as preventing spread from a vaccinate to a non-vaccinate. They're also virtually 100% effective at preventing disease severe enough to require medical intervention.
It's also worth noting that up to 30% of these "easy infections" have long term side effects, which the vaccines largely prevent.
So you're telling me a vacc recipient is now immune forever? You did mention the preventing of infections to the degree of negating medical attention. Is that zero symptoms at all or the equivalent of hay fever? What I have read is that is lessens the symptoms, not eradicates them.I'm not sure (and don't believe anyone is) of the end game. For now this I believe our approach is the best we can do right now.
As for the second part of your post, the latest data contradicts you, quite strongly. The m-RNA vaccines in particular are highly effective at preventing asymptomatic infections (even in kids in the preliminary data dumps) as well as preventing spread from a vaccinate to a non-vaccinate. They're also virtually 100% effective at preventing disease severe enough to require medical intervention.
It's also worth noting that up to 30% of these "easy infections" have long term side effects, which the vaccines largely prevent.
?Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.
If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.
Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
And if they don't you'll fire them?Yep and I’m requiring all my employees to bring in proof of vaccination by end of May.
You better not get too froggy. There are lots of trimming jobs out there.Yep and I’m requiring all my employees to bring in proof of vaccination by end of May.
No but their hours will be reduced because 70% of our work is in the healthcare industry.And if they don't you'll fire them?
This is actually the scariest post I have ever seen on MM. Its hard for me to fathom that there are Americans that actually have these thoughts and feelings. This is truly Psychotic literature.The vaccine works end of story. yes there will be boosters or follow up shots required. BFD as long as people get them.
We can force anyone to get a shot but we don't have to condone selfishness and paranoid delusions either. I say once everyone who want a shot gets one kick the doors wide open and let the chips fall.
If you refused the shot medicare, medicade and private insurance will not pay for your treatment and hospitals will have no obligation to admit you. you think you're a rebel then GFYS not on my dime.
the virus really doesn't scare me I'm healthy and nothing has ever put me in the hospital, but I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
If you refused the shot medicare, medicade and private insurance will not pay for your treatment and hospitals will have no obligation to admit you.
I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
We can force anyone to get a shot but we don't have to condone selfishness and paranoid delusions either. I say once everyone who want a shot gets one kick the doors wide open and let the chips fall.
Kick the $#%&@! doors open yesterday! If you're scared, stay home!
you think you're a rebel then GFYS not on my dime.
From someone in one of the most subsidized industries in the country. Whose dime exactly?
the virus really doesn't scare me I'm healthy and nothing has ever put me in the hospital, but I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
Not sure anybody here is buying that, but it's your story, tell it anyway you want.
I’m surprised it isn’t happening that way yet. But it’s coming.All I can say is I made an appointment for my first jab and a week later my stimulus check showed up.
At the end of the day it's about choice and the ability to make a choice. Not some cheap politiciansI got both of mine. Not because I had 2. Because I wanted 2. I look at it this way, same as the flu shot. If I get it, it will be a milder case.
I wear a mask when I go to work because I have to wear a mask to be able to go to work
I wear a mask when I go into Walmart because Walmart says I need to wear a mask to go into Walmart.
I was in Texas last week and wore a mask in places I did not have to, because I wanted to.
I do see them as a benefit to help slow flu and colds. Don't hurt me a bit. Tell me I have to wear them in public by a state or government and that's a different story.
If the politicians, and even the doctors, hadn't lied time and again to us about the disease someone might trust them.If it was an ACTUAL pandemic, no one would have to be persuaded to get the vaccine.
From what I've read so far all the shot does is lessen the severity of the symptoms. Those that have received the shot can still get, and spread the virus.
Newly released date from Pfizer contradicts this.That is correct- it can shed to someone else for up to two weeks after the shot. It's also being said that the shot is only good for 6 months and may require additional "experimental" vaccinations which is what is currently being administered.
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.
If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.
Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
The moral of the OP... 79% of MM voters want the government to tell a private business whom they have to employ. They literally make a small business owner give money to somebody against their will. It's hard to get more socialist than that.
We're way beyond making a business sell a wedding cake against their wish, now we want to make them write somebody a paycheck for thousands of dollars a month.
Nevermind that there are businesses with real consequences for their employee's actions, like nursing home staff. Or a business with a high-risk individual that can't get vaccinated due to an allergy, etc.
Employees think they have a "right" to work where they want and the business owner better get used to it. SMH
I take off my mask every time I poop. Learned the hard way on that one and got vapor locked.
Why on Earth would I get an experimental vaccine for something that literally does not scare me in the least? Is it because it scares you and you think everybody else should get it because and it fits your beliefs? Nope not getting it, no thanks. If I was worried and scared how some are I would get it. You got the vaccine it sounds like, good for you I have no problems with that. IMO nobody should go tell anybody else they should get it, it is an individual choice.Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.
If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.
Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Why on Earth would I get an experimental vaccine for something that literally does not scare me in the least? Is it because it scares you and you think everybody else should get it because and it fits your beliefs? Nope not getting it, no thanks. If I was worried and scared how some are I would get it. You got the vaccine it sounds like, good for you I have no problems with that. IMO nobody should go tell anybody else they should get it, it is an individual choice.
Enjoy the time under the palms!I wish I had the energy to make it political. But I NEED it because I have an expensive plane ticket to a palm tree and a stack of cold beverages.
I don't think my 2 covid vaccination shots are working right! The turkeys are still smarter than me so I have not filled my tag with deliciousness YET. Maybe this coming weekend!
The wife is anxiously awaiting some of my famous (in my mind) turkey stew.
Zeke
This IS still America, and as a business owner I have the right to run my business as I see fit. I don't need or want the government, you, or anyone else telling me how to run my business.Last I Knew This is Still America?
Where We use to have a Choice/Choices We Could Make For Ourselves?
But They're Trying to Change it:
DO AS I SAY!
SLOWLY!
BUT DAMN SURELY!
If I choose to require the vaccine as a condition of employment, then that is my right as a business owner. If someone doesn't want to work at my place of business as a result of that condition, they are welcome to go find employment somewhere else.
regardless of the merit of either side, this is perfectly legal and has long precedent (for example, in the majority of jobs in the medical field, receiving the flu vaccine annually is a condition of employment).Your attorney good with that statement...?
Other than a VERY few exceptions having to do with ADA (disabilities act) oversight, I absolutely CAN require a vaccination as a condition of employment if I so choose.Your attorney good with that statement...?
DW,Still waiting on somebody's expert friend to tell us what the long term effects of this vaccine are. I think I've got a long wait ahead of me.
So telling someone he/she has to take a vaccine and that is ok? Forcing people to do just that is just like you not liking the government or anyone else telling you what to do.You want the government to tell you how to run your business??????
As long as their is understanding before hand that it is a requirement and/or condition of employment. In essence, a full disclosure. The flu vaccine is a proven occurrence, as you say, a long precedent. News today, however, the Johnson and Johnson version is currently on hold via the outcome of some patients that developed severe blood clotting, so no long precedence has been established for the SARS-2 vaccine. Yet...regardless of the merit of either side, this is perfectly legal and has long precedent (for example, in the majority of jobs in the medical field, receiving the flu vaccine annually is a condition of employment).
a shocking number of vaccines are required of the military and more than a handful of vaccines are required to set foot in a school or daycare.
Other than a VERY few exceptions having to do with ADA (disabilities act) oversight, I absolutely CAN require a vaccination as a condition of employment if I so choose.
I am in Arizona. What state are you in??
DW,
Think of all the shots the Navy gave you without any information other than being told to, "Get in line". You have any lasting affects from those? Just saying in the long term we are all dead.
Nemont
As long as their is understanding before hand that it is a requirement and/or condition of employment. In essence, a full disclosure. The flu vaccine is a proven occurrence, as you say, a long precedent. News today, however, the Johnson and Johnson version is currently on hold via the outcome of some patients that developed severe blood clotting, so no long precedence has been established for the SARS-2 vaccine. Yet...
I find that it's a little hypocritical for someone to state they don't want government telling them how they should run their business, yet a business has the right to dictate the health and safety of an individual with a treatment, that although has passed clinical trials, has no long term data (to date) to establish any kind of trend or "precedence".
Hope you can prove what someone's moral convictions are or what they determine as their freedom of conscience is. The tenets of a religion don't necessarily constitute the very definition of the First Amendment for an individual. All that means is that that religion most closely aligns to what their deep held beliefs are. Termination over an innate fear of something or deep held belief is dangerous ground.
A high level (legal) review made for the purposes of generalizing is one thing, specifics are another. You as the employer, if under 15, would need to first try to make accommodations, according to the write up.
I would hate to be on the receiving end of a distraught widow with 2 children under the age of 5 suddenly without a primary bread winner and dad because he was mandated to receive a vaccine he was against and then had a weird allergic reaction to. Just sayin'...
Cheers.
I 100% disagree with your argument because I am not forcing anyone to get a vaccine. They can simply go someplace else to work if that's what they want. Simple!So telling someone he/she has to take a vaccine and that is ok? Forcing people to do just that is just like you not liking the government or anyone else telling you what to do.
It's about choice and that concept America has lost in many areas of life.
Sorry, after thinking about this I don't agree with people getting fired for not taking an EXPERIMENTAL VACCINE! Johnson and johnson was just recalled for blood clots. There have been plenty of problems with the other brands as well.This IS still America, and as a business owner I have the right to run my business as I see fit. I don't need or want the government, you, or anyone else telling me how to run my business.
If I choose to require the vaccine as a condition of employment, then that is my right as a business owner. If someone doesn't want to work at my place of business as a result of that condition, they are welcome to go find employment somewhere else.
You want the government to tell you how to run your business.
So let's say an employer wants to bang his secretary. He tells her she has to put out. Hey if she doesn't want to she can just work somewhere else??? Right??? She has choices. Nobody is forcing her.
There are federal discrimination laws that prevent that. Sexual Harassment has been adjudicated to be protected as sex discrimination.Business owners get to decide who works for them, as long as it's within the bounds of Federal Antidiscrimination Laws.
A person can choose what they put in their body. They can't choose to work for a business that doesn't want them.I'm not talking about the law and what you can get away with Grizzly. I'm talking about the right of a woman to not have to pick between employment and whether or not to put something in her body, and a man having to pick between employment and putting something in his body.
Now you are contradicting yourself Grizzly. You just said a woman can choose to work for a business that doesn't want her.A person can choose what they put in their body. They can't choose to work for a business that doesn't want them.
No I didn't. I clearly said their employment can be rescinded as long as it doesn't violate Federal Law. I said that twice in the last few minutes. You gave some sort of ridiculous sexual assault scenario which clearly violates the very federal law I mentioned and then you said you weren't talking about the law anyway.Now you are contradicting yourself Grizzly. You just said a woman can choose to work for a business that doesn't want her.
Dumb analogy, IMO. There are laws specifically against sexual harassment, so your argument has absolutely zero cred when debating the topic at hand.So let's say an employer wants to bang his secretary. He tells her she has to put out. Hey if she doesn't want to she can just work somewhere else??? Right??? She has choices. Nobody is forcing her.