Valles Caldera NM to NPS Status Bill

JFWRC

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Please know that I do not support this bill in anyway. I am against it. Being in the ag banking/finance business, I for one cannot understand how a 96,000 deeded acre ranch like this cannot sustain itself. Oh.....I forgot, the government has control.....now I get it.

Folks in the know believe the "best worst case" scenario is to have an amendment that would take this to a USFS-NM Valle Vidal status. I agree.Valle Vidal works well in NM. Yes there are problems at time, but overall it seems to function very well and hunting-fishing-enjoyment is A+. However we need your help to make this happen. Please call or write your individual congressional delegation and tell them to vote NO this transfer.

Although it says hunting and fishing permitted, that means it can be taken away as well.

ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED! THANK YOU!

Transfer Valles Caldera to the National Park Service February 12, 2013

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senators Tom Udall and Martin Heinrich reintroduced legislation today to transfer the management of the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the National Park Service (NPS).

Udall and retired Sen. Jeff Bingaman first introduced this legislation in 2010 in light of inconsistent funding, the need for infrastructure improvements and concerns that the Preserve would not achieve financial self-sustainability by 2015, as directed by the Valles Caldera Preservation Act of 2000.

"Millions of years in the making, the Valles Caldera is a natural wonder, rich in geology, ecology and culture," said Udall. "With its vast grass-filled valleys, forested hillsides and numerous volcanic peaks, the caldera means a great deal to the surrounding communities and tribes. Incorporating this landscape into theNational Park Service will preserve its resources and allow for public enjoyment by future generations. Additionally, I want to applaud the years of work that the Board of Trustees and Preserve employees have invested in caring for this unmatched natural resource."

"As someone who's spent time hunting and fishing in the Valles Caldera, I know well how incredible this area is. Families in New Mexico take their children to the vast swath just west of Los Alamos, they create memories, and learn about the rich culture this land brings to our state. But admission to this oasis has been limited," said Heinrich. "The Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act would help protect the abundant natural resources of the Preserve while increasing recreational access for hiking, camping, hunting, and fishing for all New Mexicans. Making the Valles Caldera more accessible would improve the quality of life for all who visit, for all who benefit from the tourism dollars it brings, and for all who pass on New Mexico's outdoor traditions to their children in such a spectacular setting. This bill also ensures that traditional uses of the resources in the Caldera continue and that nearby pueblos' sacred sites remain protected."

A study requested by Udall and Bingaman in 2009 determined that the Valles Caldera met the high criteria for inclusion in the NPS, noting its significant national value and unique, unaltered geology.

The bill directs the NPS to take over management in a way that protects the Preserve's natural and cultural resources. Hunting, fishing and cattle grazing would continue to be permitted under the legislation. Additionally, the measure strengthens protections for tribal cultural and religious sites and ensures local tribes access to the area.

The first calls to bring the Valles Caldera into the NPS were in 1899. In four separate studies throughout the next century the Park Service found that the area was suitable for protective status under its management.

It wasn't until 2000 that Bingaman, retired Sen. Pete Domenici and then-Rep. Udall were successful in passing legislation to acquire the property for $100 million. The law established an experimental management framework where a Board of Trustees would manage the Preserve as a working ranch with public access, with the goal of becoming financially self-sustaining by 2015.
 
Could you briefly explain how things are set up at the present time to run it and what is not happening that they think will be corrected by passing this Bill? Thanks, as I think people will need that kind of information before they get involved one way or the other.
 
TOPGUN-

Please know these are my thoughts only. When the Feds bought the Baca Ranch back in 1999-2000 the Act required ownership as a Trust which was to be overseen by a Board of Trustees. The act required the ranch be self sustaining, in other words, its pays for itself. No brainer right........well for some reason it is not covering the bills so the answer is to put it under further government ownership. The choice our senators want is National Parks. I think this is nuts...... The proposed legislation indicates hunting and fishing will be permitted. The key word is "permitted." I read that as we can take it away as well.

The Valle Vidal, 100,000 beautiful acres in NE NM was donated by Pennzoil in the 80's and has CAREFULLY managed by the USFS. I personally can't understand how the Valles Calderas 96,000 acres of pristine real estate can't pay its bills. I would like it to stay as is, but pay its bills. Not sure why it won't work.

However, the best of worst is to take it to the USFS vs. National Parks. I think our senators want another Yellowstone in NM.

There are threads on the NM forum and Bowsite that have links to the financials. I've got to look at these more carefully.

I believe the only place this is going to be stopped is the House of Reps. I would love to see an amendment of some form. I would love to better know why this place can't cash flow.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim! I knew just a little of the background way back when Pennzoil owned it and got rid of it. I'll start looking into it, as I hope others will, so that we can start making our thoughts know to our Legislators in DC.
 
The Valles Caldera is an awesome place. Went on a hunt here for cow elk with my buddy several years ago, both of us are non residents. Incredible experience, lots of elk.

However since NM has cut NR hunters to a 6% quota and bull only(odds were already miserable before), the breakdown for NR is as follows:
Early Archery Bull 320 tickets for 1 tag .31% draw
Second Archery Bull 597 tickets for 1 tag .17% draw
Muzzle Loader Bull 810 tickets for 1 tag .12% draw
First Rifle Bull 883 tickets for 1 tag .11% draw
Second Rifle Bull 518 tickets for 1 tag .19% draw

From a NR perspective, I don't think the odds can get any worse. I wouldn't mind seeing it go to the state draw where everyone gets one chance(one ticket). I used to buy a few tickets every year, but no longer waste $90-120 for a .1% chance to draw...

Hope it works out for everyone
 
ArizonaBuild-

The Valle Vidal model has once-in-lifetime restrictions......not a ticket buying model. If it goes to NPS, I think hunting will get shut down eventually.

Jim
 
This is a response to earlyriser on the NM Site.


March 15, 2013

Dear Mr. Northup,

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Valles Caldera National Preserve. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.

The Valles Caldera Trust, a government chartered organization, is part of the National Forest System. It was established in 2000 by the Valles Caldera Preservation Act. I worked on this legislation with then-Senator Jeff Bingaman and other members of the New Mexico congressional delegation to protect and preserve the historic Baca Ranch in the Jemez Mountains. The act provided for the federal purchase of this 89,000-acre ranch and initiated a unique experiment in public land management by creating a government trust organization to manage the ranch, but to do so while representing the many Valles Caldera stakeholders.

On November 2, 2009, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) released its second report assessing whether or not the Valles Caldera Trust was meeting its statutory goals of remaining financially self-sustaining and protecting the unique beauty of the Valles Caldera National Preserve for future generations. In this assessment, the GAO reported that the Valles Caldera Trust had made progress in establishing staff organization, in engineering and in addressing infrastructure problems. However, the report also indicated that the Trust was behind schedule for achieving many of the goals laid out in the Valles Caldera Preservation Act.

With that in mind, Senator Bingaman and I wrote a letter to the acting director of the National Park Service at the time, Mr. Daniel Wenk, urging him to consider other future potential management options. A reconnaissance study was completed on the feasibility of including the Valles Caldera into the National Park System. This study found that it would, in fact, be feasible to do so.

After careful consideration following the reconnaissance study, the GAO report, as well as stakeholder input over the last few years, I introduced S. 285, the Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act on February 12, 2013. S. 285 will transfer the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the National Park Service. Transferring the management of the Valles Caldera to the Park Service will help protect the Preserve's natural and cultural resources. S. 285 also will guarantee protection of tribal and religious sites in the area and will explicitly still permit fishing, hunting, and cattle grazing. S. 285 was referred to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee where no further action has yet occurred.

The Valles Caldera is a treasure to New Mexico and I am committed to its protection and preservation. Please be assured I will keep your thoughts in mind as we work to ensure the proper management of the Preserve.


Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with me. Please feel free to contact me with your concerns regarding any federal issue by visiting my website at www.tomudall.senate.gov. For more information, you may also visit my Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-Tom-Udall/106433512869 and receive up to the minute updates through my Twitter page at http://twitter.com/senatortomudall.

Very truly yours,

Tom Udall
United States Senator
 
Early Riser-Thanks for posting.....!!!

This sentence is the one that makes me cringe.

S. 285 also will guarantee protection of tribal and religious sites in the area and will explicitly still permit fishing, hunting, and cattle grazing. S. 285 was referred to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee where no further action has yet occurred.

The key words here being "guarantee" and "permit."

Clearly these words mean "will happen," and "may happen."

He tells us which committee its in. The link to the committee members is:

http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/

Please take the time to call the members and give them your thoughts......better yet e-mail them.

Again, thanks early riser for posting this letter and bringing the topic back to the top.

Jim
 
Im not sure sending the Valles Caldera to the NPS is a good idea, but I also know that in the current arrangement they are completely hamstrung in their ability to meet financial self sufficiency. They have floated numerous ideas and they get shot down.

I have hunted the VC and found it to be a special place, but I don't think it is worthy of National Park status. (That hasn't stopped other places from becoming national parks). I also realize that there are other options in the designation if its managed by NPS but clearly there are some trying to move it toward National Park status in the long run.
 
gznokes-have you had opportunity to visit the Valle Vidal? It is 100K acres as well, similar in aesthetics, and seems to run fairly well.......however, being close to Albuquerque and Santa Fe make it a bit more worrisome to problems associated with being near large population centers.
 
I'm a long ways away and don't really know anything about this place. But for a government run institution to say they can run a ranch better than a private one can makes me think there is something fishy here.

DZ
 
As always Jim thanks for being a source of info for us flat landers. Your a true gentleman.

Thanks again Joe.

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora
 
>ArizonaBuild-
>
>The Valle Vidal model has once-in-lifetime
>restrictions......not a ticket buying model.
>If it goes to NPS,
>I think hunting will get
>shut down eventually.
>
>Jim


If it goes federal, it will get federal funding. If it stays state, it will be in the same shape.
 
The Valles Caldera is such a special place. I had the privilege to hunt there back in September of 1987, and it was like Disneyland for elk hunters. After seeing that place, and the fantastic cattle randching possibilities as well as timber and elk hunting, I can only imagine that it can't be run profitably because government is involved. Anyone with some good business sense and the freedom to manage the place without regard to political concerns should not only be able to make it pay for itself, they should be able to do quite well, I would think.
 
Anyone who has had any experience with the NPS should know that they like to limit access. The NPS is into shutting people out, and I would bet my life savings that hunting would not be permitted there in a few years, after the park service takes over.
 
The National Park Service is run by mindless tree huggers. Look at the way they dealt with the Mojave National Preserve in CA. They decided to remove all the water catchments since man-made improvements detracted from the natural aesthetics. The only species they felt would be impacted was a non-native herd of Rocky Mountain mule deer. The bighorn sheep population would just decrease to a naturally sustainable population which may be zero. We don't need the NPS in charge of property that is beneficial to wildlife, much less the hunting tradition.
 
The NM Game Commission had an emergency vote on the 23rd and unanimously agreed to FIGHT against SB285 where the Caldera becomes a national preserve. They see the BS in the language. Federal dollars bought this place........please let your congressman know your opposition to this bill that will restrict all of our hunting access to this wonderful place. A petition is posted to help us out. Thank you!
 
For all those who are saying that something seems fishy....I think you're on the right track here.

Anytime the government sees an oppurtunity to get there hands on the cash cow....they're going to get in on it!
Look at Obamacare....there is a lot of money to be made in the insurance business. Insurance companies make TONS of money every year. Why wouldn't the government want their hands in it too? There are several other examples where the government has to get their dirty little hands in things.

I'm guessing this to be the same type of situation. Sorry for getting on a political kick here but it's just my intuition speaking.

I guess I just don't understand why this can't be finaincially sustaining without the governments help. Can someone enlighten me?
But I do understand how quickly the government can jump in to start milking the cash cow.
Just sayin






Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
NOTE FROM SCI BELOW-If you want hunting to continue on this prestine area of NM, please call your local senator and ask them to kill this bill in committee. THE COMMITTEE MEETS NEXT TUESDAY the 18th to consider the bill.....SB285. The link to the The Senate Natural Resource Committee Members is posted below. THANK YOU!

http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/members

New Mexico Senators Plan to Forsake Hunting on the Valles Caldera

Call Senator Udall at 202-224-6621 and Senator Martin Heinrich at 202-224-5521 to voice your opposition to S. 285, the Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act. Do not wait! S. 285 will be voted on June 18th in Washington, D.C.

The Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act would transfer the management of nearly 90,000 acres of some of New Mexico?s finest big game habitat to the National Park Service! This transfer would allow the National Park Service to gut any hunting or fishing opportunities that are now available.
You need to take direct action today to make sure Senators Heinrich and Udall know that New Mexico?s sportsmen and women think this is bad public policy. And it is a direct affront to the hunters and anglers that recreate on the Valles Caldera!

The National Park Service has the worst track-record for allowing hunting of any federal land management agency and the vast majority of lands managed by the Park Service are closed to hunting. We have been fooled before by allowing the Park Service to manage lands that were historically open to hunting. Almost 150,000 acres of addition lands in the Big Cypress National Preserve were protected through the work of hunters in 1988. We were promised that these would be open to hunting and 25 years later we are still waiting for these lands to be reopened. Much like the Big Cypress situation, this legislation also claims to protect hunting and fishing on the preserve. However, in reality the bill gives the Secretary of Interior almost free reign to close hunting opportunities as she sees fit. It is vital that the tremendous turkey and elk habitat on the Valles Caldera National Preserve remain open to hunting. Contact Senators Udall and Heinrich and tell them that allowing the National Park Service to take over the Valles Caldera is unacceptable.
Do not wait! S. 285 will be voted on June 18th in Washington, D.C. Call Senator Udall at 202-224-6621 and Senator Martin Heinrich at 202-224-5521 to voice your opposition to S. 285 today!


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OM SCI-
 
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LETTER and NOTE THE ORGANIZATIONS AGAINST!!!


The Honorable Tom Udall The Honorable Martin Heinrich
United States Senate United States Senate
110 Hart Senate Office Building 540D Dirksen Senate Office
Washington, DC 20510 Washington, DC 20510

June 17, 2013

Dear Senators Udall and Heinrich:
Our organizations, which represent millions of sporting conservationists, have reviewed S. 285 ?To designate the Valles Caldera National Preserve as a unit of the National Park System, and for other purposes.? We are well aware of the historic attempts to protect this property and have been aware that the experiment with making the property a public/private enterprise has been a challenge. Additionally, we are aware that a hearing was held on April 23, 2013 regarding S. 285 before the Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks and that the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish has expressed its opposition to S. 285 in a letter to Senator Udall on June 3, 2013.

Several of the undersigned organizations have long been concerned over legislation to move the Valles Caldera National Preserve (VCNP) to the National Park Service (NPS). For instance, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided a letter of comment in July 2010 to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee opposing the transfer of the VCNP to the NPS. The National Wild Turkey Federation testified before the Committee that same year expressing their belief that if a transfer was needed, it should be to the U.S. Forest Service. With this in mind, the undersigned organizations wish to make it clear that this letter neither supports nor opposes dissolution of the Valles Caldera Trust.

We are opposed to transferring the VCNP to the NPS. The VCNP, while covering approximately 89,000 acres, does not represent an ecosystem, but more resembles an island surrounded almost entirely by the Santa Fe National Forest. It does not seem prudent to create yet another jurisdictional boundary for this important wildlife habitat that would only serve to complicate management of wildlife and other natural resources.
The enabling legislation (Public Law 106-248, the Valles Caldera Preservation Act) specifically charges the Secretary of Agriculture with primary powers over the Preserve while management will be under the auspices of the Valles Caldera Trust. Sect. 110 addresses the termination of the Valles Caldera Trust at the end of the twentieth full fiscal year following acquisition. The section further goes on to state ?in the event of termination of the Trust, the Secretary shall assume all management and administrative functions over the Preserve, and it shall be managed as a part of the Santa Fe National Forest, subject to all laws applicable to the National Forest Systems.? The groups signed below strongly advocate adhering to the intent of the enabling legislation passed on January 24, 2000.

With regards to recreational hunting, we believe that NPS policy, management and administration are likely to further complicate wildlife resource management on the VCNP. Section 3 of the bill appears to protect hunting:?the Secretary, in consultation with the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, shall permit hunting and fishing on land and waters within the Preserve in accordance with applicable Federal and State laws, and may, designate zones in which, and establish periods during which, no hunting or fishing shall be permitted for reasons of public safety, administration, the protection of wildlife and wildlife habitats, or public use and enjoyment.?

However, we believe the language gives the Administration too much discretion that could easily result in the drastic reduction or elimination of hunting on the VCNP. This concern is coupled to the fact that NPS policy and procedures generally try to minimize or eliminate hunting on lands they manage. The National Park System has limited units where big game, upland game bird or waterfowl hunting are allowed and with approximately 3,000 elk on the property, for example, we need an agency with experience in active wildlife and habitat management administering this area.

A petition is circulating claiming that the VCNP ?will lose virtually all protections in 2015 if Congress does not include it in the National Park System as a National Preserve.? Aside from the fact that 2015 has not arrived, the enabling Act for the VCNP clearly made provision for the protection of the VCNP should the Valles Caldera Trust be terminated. Further, the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) has a long history of managing public lands for multiple-use including hunting, fishing, trapping, access, game and non-game management, as well as wildlife habitat, recreation management, and the protection of cultural resources .

Several of the undersigned organizations met with your staff on June 11th to discuss the concerns we have over the transfer of Valles Caldera to the NPS rather than the USFS, if Congress decides that it is appropriate to dissolve the Valles Caldera Trust. The opportunity to open a dialogue about the bill was much appreciated and we look forward to further communication. Your offices both have a history of being strong voices for wildlife conservation and wildlife habitat management. However, the signatories still believe that transferring management of the preserve to the NPS rather than the USFS, now or in the future, is inconsistent with the original intent of Congress and would be contrary to the interests of America?s hunting and fishing conservationists.

Finally, during the meeting we also discussed the development of language that would advance the opportunities for hunting and angling on existing National Park Service units and would like to discuss this concept in more detail in the future, however we do not believe that the VCNP is the appropriate location to test this language. Please feel free to contact any of our organizations or you may also call or email Blake Henning with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation at 406-523-0273 or [email protected].

Sincerely,

Archery Trade Association
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
Bear Trust International
Boone & Crockett Club
Bowhunting Preservation Alliance
Catch-A-Dream Foundation
Congressional Sportsman?s Foundation
Conservation Force
Masters of Foxhounds Association
Mule Deer Foundation
National Association of Forest Service Retirees
National Rifle Association
National Shooting Sports Foundation
National Wild Turkey Federation
North American Bear Foundation
North American Grouse Partnership
Orion ? The Hunters? Institute
Quality Deer Management Association
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ruffed Grouse Society
Safari Club International
Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership
Wild Sheep Foundation
Wildlife Forever
Wildlife Management Institute
cc: Members of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee
Members of the New Mexico Congressional Delegation
Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsak
Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell
Chief of the U.S. Forest Service Tom Tidwell
Director of the National Park Service Jonathan Jarvis
 
I would have to agree that no good can come from the VCNP being transferred to the NPS.

One only has to look at what happened to Santa Rosa Island when the NPS took over. The isolated herd of CWD free Roosevelt elk and trophy Kaibab strain mule deer were exterminated because they weren't indigenous to the island. Furthermore, the fawns and elk calves being born supposedly attracted golden eagles who then preyed on the rare channel fox. Never mind the fact that cattle and the deer and elk have been there since the early 1900's. unfortunately, hunting there is no more.

The following is an excerpt from an article quoting a NPS spokesperson;

"Perhaps more significantly than the ecological impacts, however, is that the presence of deer and elk and the annual hunts effectively shut off 90 percent of Santa Rosa Island for visitors for five months out of the every year. And that's a big reason as to why the park always wanted them removed. ?Hunting is not authorized in national parks,? said Menard. ?National parks are set aside to preserve the natural environment. The impacts of nonnative deer and elk are known to have impacts on visitors as well as on natural and cultural resources.?

I was there when the NPS was in the process of taking over the island. Huge government compounds with satellite TV and NPS personnel running all over the island in their brand new Ford Excursions. All at taxpayer expense. What a waste and a complete travesty IMO.

While the current situation with the VCPN isn't completely analogous to what happened at Santa Rosa Island, I hope the VCPN doesn't fall into the hands of the NPS. If it does, I see hunting there being a thing of the past in the very near future...

Horniac
 

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