WASATCH ELK 2024???

[elkassassin]

Wondering How Many Of You Think The Bulls Will Bounce Back In One Year For 2024?

Ya,We Had A Bad Winter!

But There's More To It Than That!

I Don't Think I Know Of A Unit Anywhere That Gets Pounded Any Harder Than The Wasatch!

Perty SAD!

One Of The Biggest Units Around & Was Doing Quite Well For Several Years!

No,I Don't Hunt It!

No,I'm Not Gonna Start Hunting It!

She's Been Hit Hard!

Kinda Like Everywhere-Else!

Who's Gonna Blow Their MAX Points On It In 2024?

 

[300WBYMULES]

It ain’t good from my perspective and hasn’t been for a long time. UDWR has totally fubared it all in the spirit of increasing opportunity. You’d be better off killing a trophy 300”plus bull by buying an over the counter tag in Colorado. So many better options than the Satch. It’s my backyard unit and you use to go be able to view several nice bulls during the winter. Those days are way long gone.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

Seems Like Yesterday There Was Some Damn Nice Bulls On The Wasatch That'd Survive Through The Bombardment!

But Not Many Anymore!

It ain’t good from my perspective and hasn’t been for a long time. UDWR has totally fubared it all in the spirit of increasing opportunity. You’d be better off killing a trophy 300”plus bull by buying an over the counter tag in Colorado. So many better options than the Satch. It’s my backyard unit and you use to go be able to view several nice bulls during the winter. Those days are way long gone.

 

[elkantlers]

The Wasatch and the Manti have definitely been shot out to the point that they need to start decreasing tags to get the quality back up a bit.

 

[D_Hoyt]

As long as the annual harvest age objective is inline with the elk management plan there is no management incentive to make changes.

I hunted the Wasatch at least 15 days in 2023 and saw one bull over 300. He was a bonified 340-350 bull that was in the deepest darkest place I've ever ventured on the Wasatch. I watched him for about 10 minutes. I saw dozens of satellite bulls and one awesome super spike. The herds seemed smaller and more spread out this year because there was so much water. I'd be shocked if the overall success rate wasn't lower than normal across all the hunts in 2023. The bulls just didn't put on very much length even though the mass was good.

I have zero faith that the Wasatch will ever be what it once was. If you want a 320+ bull, or even a solid 6x6, look elsewhere or you will be disappointed. They do still exist, but they are rare on public lands. The CWMUs are a safe haven and do get bigger bulls typically.

Just my two cents.

 

[twopointdn]

I had a Wasatch archery elk hunt in 2021 and my daughter had the Wasatch multi season rifle tag this year and we are both smiling in our field photos. Two of the best elk hunts I have ever had from a memory and experience prospective. Every LE unit does not need to be a trophy unit in my opinion. Some people are happy with a opportunity at a mature bull regardless of what it scores. I support the new elk management plan to provide more opportunities in units that have plenty of elk on the mountain. Just my thoughts.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I would be very happy with a 300” elk. Lol

 

[Stubaby]

I had a Wasatch archery elk hunt in 2021 and my daughter had the Wasatch multi season rifle tag this year and we are both smiling in our field photos. Two of the best elk hunts I have ever had from a memory and experience prospective. Every LE unit does not need to be a trophy unit in my opinion. Some people are happy with a opportunity at a mature bull regardless of what it scores. I support the new elk management plan to provide more opportunities in units that have plenty of elk on the mountain. Just my thoughts.

Pics?

 

[300WBYMULES]

As long as the annual harvest age objective is inline with the elk management plan there is no management incentive to make changes.

I hunted the Wasatch at least 15 days in 2023 and saw one bull over 300. He was a bonified 340-350 bull that was in the deepest darkest place I've ever ventured on the Wasatch. I watched him for about 10 minutes. I saw dozens of satellite bulls and one awesome super spike. The herds seemed smaller and more spread out this year because there was so much water. I'd be shocked if the overall success rate wasn't lower than normal across all the hunts in 2023. The bulls just didn't put on very much length even though the mass was good.

I have zero faith that the Wasatch will ever be what it once was. If you want a 320+ bull, or even a solid 6x6, look elsewhere or you will be disappointed. They do still exist, but they are rare on public lands. The CWMUs are a safe haven and do get bigger bulls typically.

Just my two cents.

agreed!!

 

[DBG3285]

The Wasatch is not managed, nor will it be managed to be what it was 15 years ago.

With that said, I think that depending on the winter we have, it could have a great year next year. At least for what they are managing it for.

I think a lot of growth was stunted this year, and many of those bulls that on a normal year would have been harvested, ended up escaping. And if they come out of this winter healthy, and with the residual water effects and a healthy animal, it could potentially be a good year.

I am going to tell everyone to put in for the snatch (winter dependent).

But maybe I am just an optimist.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

What I know is this. There is an abundance of elk on the landscape and by proxy bulls.

People want to hunt those bulls and the vast majority of them are unconcerned about the size of bull they chase.

 

[Stubaby]

What I know is this. There is an abundance of elk on the landscape and by proxy bulls.

People want to hunt those bulls and the vast majority of them are unconcerned about the size of bull they chase.

Seriously, Blaster? You outfit on the snatch, what do guys expect to get a shot on when they come? How many guys out of 10 are happy with getting on HWY 40 with a sub 300” bull in the back of their truck?

Im just curious.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Seriously, Blaster? You outfit on the snatch, what do guys expect to get a shot on when they come? How many guys out of 10 are happy with getting on HWY 40 with a sub 300” bull in the back of their truck?

Im just curious.

For some guys it matters, and not in an unhealthy ‘need a 380” or nothing’ kind of way.

But after sitting through elk committee, and just getting to a different place personally, I can confidently say there’s far more guys who have opportunistic priorities set well above size. Bessy is very much the vocal minority.

Most people who hunt have no idea what a 300” bull is. They’ll do a quick brush up on the internet looking at a few YouTube videos, and a google image search the year they draw. Then head out, wanting nothing more than a fun hunt with family that culminates in a punched tag.

The surveys back this up, my personal experience talking with a ton of people that walk thru the marina and guiding all coincide.

So yes, I’m serious. We got fed a bill of sour goods by a loud group of seasoned hunters who thought they could create this utopia of mature animals with no regard for the consequences. The consequences are obvious to us today, and when we consider what the majority of hunters want, inches, LE, waiting periods, age class, etc etc are well down the list of priorities that impact satisfaction. Family and frequency were the dominant desires for the surveyed outdoorsmen in this state.

 

[elkassassin]

So BEAVIS?

When Top End Bulls Average 250" You'll Still Be Charging Trophy Bull Prices Because JOE BLOW OPPORTUNIST Don't F'N Care?

Ya!

That's What I Thought!

Turn Them F'ERS In To Nothing But Money & JUNK Quality!

KEEP F'N POUNDIN Them!

For some guys it matters, and not in an unhealthy ‘need a 380” or nothing’ kind of way.

But after sitting through elk committee, and just getting to a different place personally, I can confidently say there’s far more guys who have opportunistic priorities set well above size. Bessy is very much the vocal minority.

Most people who hunt have no idea what a 300” bull is. They’ll do a quick brush up on the internet looking at a few YouTube videos, and a google image search the year they draw. Then head out, wanting nothing more than a fun hunt with family that culminates in a punched tag.

The surveys back this up, my personal experience talking with a ton of people that walk thru the marina and guiding all coincide.

So yes, I’m serious. We got fed a bill of sour goods by a loud group of seasoned hunters who thought they could create this utopia of mature animals with no regard for the consequences. The consequences are obvious to us today, and when we consider what the majority of hunters want, inches, LE, waiting periods, age class, etc etc are well down the list of priorities that impact satisfaction. Family and frequency were the dominant desires for the surveyed outdoorsmen in this state.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

So BEAVIS?

When Top End Bulls Average 250" You'll Still Be Charging Trophy Bull Prices Because JOE BLOW OPPORTUNIST Don't F'N Care?

Ya!

That's What I Thought!

Turn Them F'ERS In To Nothing But Money & JUNK Quality!

KEEP F'N POUNDIN Them!

Last time I checked, Colorado GS elk hunts are about the same price and people do those hunts. Kind of what I mean when I say the hierarchy of priority isn’t chiefly dominated by the trophy quality.

 

[Gorilla]

I am 100% in favor of the new elk management plan. I would rather hunt for mature bulls (4-5 years old) with my boys a few times while my health allows than hunt for inches once in my lifetime.

One fact remains...there are more elk hunters in the field today than 25 years ago and the demand is only growing. It just not possible to go back to the "good ol days". Unless of course you tell Utans to stop having kids .

With this new plan there is a good mix of general season units, "oppertunity" limited entry units with an age class of 3-5 years old and if somebody wants to hold out to hunt for inches once in their lifetime, Utah still has a few units with an age class of 5-7 years old.

 

[Stubaby]

Helping someone who has the tag is just as fun as having it. I’d rather have older age class bulls to look at and wait my turn for the most part.

Looking over rag horns and 260 class 5x5s on an LE unit gets old!!!

 

[easyelk13]

Last time I checked, Colorado GS elk hunts are about the same price and people do those hunts. Kind of what I mean when I say the hierarchy of priority isn’t chiefly dominated by the trophy quality.

I will just add that berrysblaster does pretty well on elk over 300 outfitting in a so called raghorn unit. His pictures speak for themselves.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey BEAVIS?

How Many Bulls Over 350" Did You Guys Take This Year?

You USE-TA-COULD!

Wondering About This year?

 

[treedagain]

34783

 

[desertpointbrian]

I saw bigger bulls on the paunsagaunt unit last year then the wasatch. No the wasatch won’t bounce back on quality or quantity anytime soon.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Hey BEAVIS?

How Many Bulls Over 350" Did You Guys Take This Year?

You USE-TA-COULD!

Wondering About This year?

That’s a crap question and you know it. Half the state took a 40” hit this year. Maybe it’s because of management, but last time I checked deseret handles that themselves, and they took the same beating.

We struggled, killed a bunch of 250-300” bulls. Wasn’t for lack of animals, I saw elk everywhere. Healthy herds, regularly ran across groups of 20-50 with drainages that held 100’s of elk. What I saw lines up with flight data which has the unit over objective at 10000+.

Does antler size recover? No idea. Brian isn’t wrong about quality last year, it was awful. The hunters we had in camp weren’t that concerned about it, we hunted hard, had fun, and for the most part they went away fulfilled.

If I was a gambling guy tho, I would spend on points on northern units next year. Looks like a short winter setting up, regardless of snow depth it’s mid December and animals haven’t been hit with snow or cold yet. That bodes well.

 

[elkassassin]

That Ain't No Crap Question & You Damn F'N Well Know It!

I Asked A Simple Question Because I Still Don't Have An Answer?

So?

Basically You're Saying When They Get Hunted Down To 250" Bulls Being The Top End,Everybody Is Still Happy?

If Something Doesn't Change In The Near Future,We're Damn Near There!

That’s a crap question and you know it. Half the state took a 40” hit this year. Maybe it’s because of management, but last time I checked deseret handles that themselves, and they took the same beating.

We struggled, killed a bunch of 250-300” bulls. Wasn’t for lack of animals, I saw elk everywhere. Healthy herds, regularly ran across groups of 20-50 with drainages that held 100’s of elk. What I saw lines up with flight data which has the unit over objective at 10000+.

Does antler size recover? No idea. Brian isn’t wrong about quality last year, it was awful. The hunters we had in camp weren’t that concerned about it, we hunted hard, had fun, and for the most part they went away fulfilled.

If I was a gambling guy tho, I would spend on points on northern units next year. Looks like a short winter setting up, regardless of snow depth it’s mid December and animals haven’t been hit with snow or cold yet. That bodes well.

 

[treedagain]

34785

 

[elkassassin]

EASY There treed!

Is That How Many Lions You've Treed This Year?

34785

 

[wstrntines]

That Ain't No Crap Question & You Damn F'N Well Know It!

I Asked A Simple Question Because I Still Don't Have An Answer?

So?

Basically You're Saying When They Get Hunted Down To 250" Bulls Being The Top End,Everybody Is Still Happy?

If Something Doesn't Change In The Near Future,We're Damn Near There!

It snowed til May and they gave a bunch more tags what do you want the guy to say that hasn’t already been said. There will be a few great bulls killed every year but not like it used to be.

 

[twopointdn]

Pics?

My bull was a six year old bull and we have not got the age back on my daughters bull but I am guess he was about four. Both were big bodied bulls. It was my daughter’s first elk and my best archery bull. I can’t wait to hunt the unit again either with my own tag or with family and friends.

I know you was watching some good bulls this year but I just could not bring myself to bug you for information. It is good to see story’s of you out there helping people out. Good on you.

 

[elkassassin]

That Goes For About Everywhere!

It snowed til May and they gave a bunch more tags what do you want the guy to say that hasn’t already been said. There will be a few great bulls killed every year but not like it used to be.

 

[Mtngoat690]

That Ain't No Crap Question & You Damn F'N Well Know It!

I Asked A Simple Question Because I Still Don't Have An Answer?

So?

Basically You're Saying When They Get Hunted Down To 250" Bulls Being The Top End,Everybody Is Still Happy?

If Something Doesn't Change In The Near Future,We're Damn Near There!

I don't believe he said "everyone is happy ". I got that "most" (that means the majority) are more than happy with a 250-300 inch bull. The problem is, the loud minority are losing the overall battle. What was well known but hidden when they dreamed up the pyramid scheme, we now call limited entry hunting opportunities, has been exposed for what it is, a scam.

I attended every one of those meetings I could when this was being discussed and it was brought up that this would be a disaster in a decade or two. There were even statistics presented in black and white showing what the future would look like. Problem was, a certain generation decided once again to design a system that benefited them! My age group (the ones that would absolutely benefit the most) were the only ones that questioned the obvious problem that statistically, our children would never get to hunt one of the new units.

Now fast forward 3 decades and the plan has evolved as everyone knew it would. Unless you are lucky, LE elk is at most a once in a lifetime deal. But the creators could care less because it worked out just peachy for them. Bottom line, the younger generation is taking over and they see the BS this has created. They see the vast majority of prime public elk real-estate locked down for the handful of people lucky enough to draw the tag and they have questions. And now the same group that designed the system still aren't happy because they put 26 years into this system and now they expect to shoot a 370 plus bull. But hey, the bottom folks should be happy because they were given a consolation prize to be able to hunt spikes while waiting in the line right. They should be grateful we left them some scraps.

They are now watching their elders literally die while standing in the line waiting. So yes MOST people now do not support the system and they want change. They want to hunt as much as possible and MOST would be happy with a 250-300 inch bull and an opportunity (I known that is a swear word here) to hunt a few times before they die. Sorry elk ass, the silent majority is taking over and things are going to change.

Do you think these committees are are formed because people are bored and want to volunteer their personal time only to be verbally abused by once again the vocal minority? Pretty sure they could probably think of better things to do. I believe they are formed because people want change because something isn't working. They take many things into consideration before they move forward with their recommendations. I like seeing monster elk and deer as much as anyone, but our previous strategy was not sustainable so it was changed.

Guys that put in the sweat will still kill above average animals. Those that can't shoot a 400 bull from the razor will still piss and moan that the sky is falling.

I've been fortunate enough to have tagged along on many LE hunts with others and I agree with Berry. MOST people are completely happy with their 300 inch bull they have taken. The ones that aren't, are usually the ones that had set unrealistic expectations based off the internet super hunters that feel they should decide what a worthy elk should be for others. You know the ones that shame other hunters because they dare parade their "dinks and piss cutters around like they are some kind of trophy ". Us hunters are our own worst enemies and we will destroy ourselves. The anti groups just have to sit back and watch.

I do apologize, and I mean no disrespect, but the majority want to hunt so that is the way we're heading.

 

[twopointdn]

My daughters bull.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Scott!

Either You Didn't Pay Attention Many Years Ago Or Maybe You Didn't See It?

I Said The Points System Wouldn't Work!

But The People With All The Smarts/DWR & Others Said It Would!

I Said:

You'll Think It's Working For A While!

But What About When We Get Down The Road 20 or 30 Years?

They Claimed It Would Still Be Working Fine!

I Called BS!

So Here The HELL We Are!

Down The Road Nearly 30 Years!

There's Still A Few With MAX Points!

I Know!

Several Of Them With MAX Points Deliberately Planned It This Way!

I Also Asked What About Our Kids & Grand-Kids?

It'll Work Out Just Fine They Claimed!

I Called BS On That As Well!

How Excited Do You Think Any Younger Kids Will Be Entering The Draw 30-35 Points Down Here Before Long?

I'll Clue You In!

If It Wasn't For Their Parents Entering Them In To The Draws,Most Of Them Would Say F'It!

I Ain't Doing This STUPID Sshitt!

So In Most Of Your Eyes It's More Than OK To Shoot Trophy LE Units Down To an Average 300" Bull I Take It?

I Tried To Get The DWR to Have 3 Good Sized PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST Units & Let People That wanna Hunt Like That Shoot Em Down To Nothing Or Shoot Whatever They Want!

But When Them 3 Units Are F'D Up Don't Come Bawling Wanting To Destroy Quality LE Units!

You Can See How That Worked Out!

I Don't Know How Much Harder You Can Hunt A Game Herd!

But Each Year They Prove Me Wrong By Adding More Hunts!

I'll Sure Be Glad When They Open It Up Year Around Like They Did On The Lions!

I don't believe he said "everyone is happy ". I got that "most" (that means the majority) are more than happy with a 250-300 inch bull. The problem is, the loud minority are losing the overall battle. What was well known but hidden when they dreamed up the pyramid scheme, we now call limited entry hunting opportunities, has been exposed for what it is, a scam.

I attended every one of those meetings I could when this was being discussed and it was brought up that this would be a disaster in a decade or two. There were even statistics presented in black and white showing what the future would look like. Problem was, a certain generation decided once again to design a system that benefited them! My age group (the ones that would absolutely benefit the most) were the only ones that questioned the obvious problem that statistically, our children would never get to hunt one of the new units.

Now fast forward 3 decades and the plan has evolved as everyone knew it would. Unless you are lucky, LE elk is at most a once in a lifetime deal. But the creators could care less because it worked out just peachy for them. Bottom line, the younger generation is taking over and they see the BS this has created. They see the vast majority of prime public elk real-estate locked down for the handful of people lucky enough to draw the tag and they have questions. And now the same group that designed the system still aren't happy because they put 26 years into this system and now they expect to shoot a 370 plus bull. But hey, the bottom folks should be happy because they were given a consolation prize to be able to hunt spikes while waiting in the line right. They should be grateful we left them some scraps.

They are now watching their elders literally die while standing in the line waiting. So yes MOST people now do not support the system and they want change. They want to hunt as much as possible and MOST would be happy with a 250-300 inch bull and an opportunity (I known that is a swear word here) to hunt a few times before they die. Sorry elk ass, the silent majority is taking over and things are going to change.

Do you think these committees are are formed because people are bored and want to volunteer their personal time only to be verbally abused by once again the vocal minority? Pretty sure they could probably think of better things to do. I believe they are formed because people want change because something isn't working. They take many things into consideration before they move forward with their recommendations. I like seeing monster elk and deer as much as anyone, but our previous strategy was not sustainable so it was changed.

Guys that put in the sweat will still kill above average animals. Those that can't shoot a 400 bull from the razor will still piss and moan that the sky is falling.

I've been fortunate enough to have tagged along on many LE hunts with others and I agree with Berry. MOST people are completely happy with their 300 inch bull they have taken. The ones that aren't, are usually the ones that had set unrealistic expectations based off the internet super hunters that feel they should decide what a worthy elk should be for others. You know the ones that shame other hunters because they dare parade their "dinks and piss cutters around like they are some kind of trophy ". Us hunters are our own worst enemies and we will destroy ourselves. The anti groups just have to sit back and watch.

I do apologize, and I mean no disrespect, but the majority want to hunt so that is the way we're heading.

 

[Stubaby]

My daughters bull.

View attachment 130180

Sweet. Did you say she had the multi season tag? Was this bull killed on the early rifle?

 

[treedagain]

Well Scott!

Either You Didn't Pay Attention Many Years Ago Or Maybe You Didn't See It?

I Said The Points System Wouldn't Work!

But The People With All The Smarts/DWR & Others Said It Would!

I Said:

You'll Think It's Working For A While!

But What About When We Get Down The Road 20 or 30 Years?

They Claimed It Would Still Be Working Fine!

I Called BS!

So Here The HELL We Are!

Down The Road Nearly 30 Years!

There's Still A Few With MAX Points!

I Know!

Several Of Them With MAX Points Deliberately Planned It This Way!

I Also Asked What About Our Kids & Grand-Kids?

It'll Work Out Just Fine They Claimed!

I Called BS On That As Well!

How Excited Do You Think Any Younger Kids Will Be Entering The Draw 30-35 Points Down Here Before Long?

I'll Clue You In!

If It Wasn't For Their Parents Entering Them In To The Draws,Most Of Them Would Say F'It!

I Ain't Doing This STUPID Sshitt!

So In Most Of Your Eyes It's More Than OK To Shoot Trophy LE Units Down To an Average 300" Bull I Take It?

I Tried To Get The DWR to Have 3 Good Sized PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST Units & Let People That wanna Hunt Like That Shoot Em Down To Nothing Or Shoot Whatever They Want!

But When Them 3 Units Are F'D Up Don't Come Bawling Wanting To Destroy Quality LE Units!

You Can See How That Worked Out!

I Don't Know How Much Harder You Can Hunt A Game Herd!

But Each Year They Prove Me Wrong By Adding More Hunts!

I'll Sure Be Glad When They Open It Up Year Around Like They Did On The Lions!

34824

 

[Tiny]

Well Scott!

Either You Didn't Pay Attention Many Years Ago Or Maybe You Didn't See It?

I Said The Points System Wouldn't Work!

But The People With All The Smarts/DWR & Others Said It Would!

I Said:

You'll Think It's Working For A While!

But What About When We Get Down The Road 20 or 30 Years?

They Claimed It Would Still Be Working Fine!

I Called BS!

So Here The HELL We Are!

Down The Road Nearly 30 Years!

There's Still A Few With MAX Points!

I Know!

Several Of Them With MAX Points Deliberately Planned It This Way!

I Also Asked What About Our Kids & Grand-Kids?

It'll Work Out Just Fine They Claimed!

I Called BS On That As Well!

How Excited Do You Think Any Younger Kids Will Be Entering The Draw 30-35 Points Down Here Before Long?

I'll Clue You In!

If It Wasn't For Their Parents Entering Them In To The Draws,Most Of Them Would Say F'It!

I Ain't Doing This STUPID Sshitt!

So In Most Of Your Eyes It's More Than OK To Shoot Trophy LE Units Down To an Average 300" Bull I Take It?

I Tried To Get The DWR to Have 3 Good Sized PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST Units & Let People That wanna Hunt Like That Shoot Em Down To Nothing Or Shoot Whatever They Want!

But When Them 3 Units Are F'D Up Don't Come Bawling Wanting To Destroy Quality LE Units!

You Can See How That Worked Out!

I Don't Know How Much Harder You Can Hunt A Game Herd!

But Each Year They Prove Me Wrong By Adding More Hunts!

I'll Sure Be Glad When They Open It Up Year Around Like They Did On The Lions!

They pretty much did that on the unit above my house and since the muzzleloader hunt got over I have not even seen 1 spike they completely devastated this heard I just don't understand why they don't sell cow tags over the counter because there is nothing left to breed them

 

[325wsm]

Seriously, Blaster? You outfit on the snatch, what do guys expect to get a shot on when they come? How many guys out of 10 are happy with getting on HWY 40 with a sub 300” bull in the back of their truck?

Im just curious.

Berry gets paid the same regardless size of the bull so of course he wants more tags for more opportunity to make money. More hunters =more opportunities to sell outfitted hunts =more money for the outfitter. This is why outfitters shouldn't be allowed on the elk committee

 

[Cam@strawberry]

If wanting more people to have regular hunting opportunities is a sin, well then

 

[325wsm]

If wanting more people to have regular hunting opportunities is a sin, well thenView attachment 130297

You forgot the part where you profit from it!

 

[Cam@strawberry]

You forgot the part where you profit from it!

So if I jump back on the wagon with the rest of the outfitters in the state and advocate for less opportunity, more LE, and status quo management, it’s ok to make a profit from that? Just checking

 

[325wsm]

But you won't because it will mean less tags, which in turn means less opportunities for you to make money on hunts. You stating that you just want more tags so more people can have more opportunity is like me saying I develop properties just because I want people to have a nice place to live and failing to mention I make money doing it. I think it's pretty clear and obvious what your motivation for more tags and less quality is.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

But you won't because it will mean less tags, which in turn means less opportunities for you to make money on hunts. You stating that you just want more tags so more people can have more opportunity is like me saying I develop properties just because I want people to have a nice place to live and failing to mention I make money doing it. I think it's pretty clear and obvious what your motivation for more tags and less quality is.

I mean I’ve very publicly stated that very sentiment so it’s not like I’m trying slide something under the table here. On the list of business/personal priority it’s pretty low tho, outfitting is a minimal part of what we do and definitely not something that drives decision making.

I want to hunt more. I want my kids to hunt more, I want a sustainable management structure that doesn’t put the divisions nuts in a vice. All things that very much supersede my profit making motivations.

 

[twopointdn]

Sweet. Did you say she had the multi season tag? Was this bull killed on the early rifle?

She had the mid season hunt out with all the spike hunters. There were not many hunter in the area we was hunting so that was nice. She got everything she dreamed of out of the hunt. Chasing bugling bulls and end up killing the herd bull. She is a taxidermist and a meat eater so everything went off the mountain, the whole hide and all the meat. I was glade it was not a bad pack out, all down hill for once. Super fun.

 

[twopointdn]

Sweet. Did you say she had the multi season tag? Was this bull killed on the early rifle?

Sorry I looked at my first post and I typed multi (I must have been dreaming)but it was not, it was a mid season tag. She drew it with four points not 25 points, big difference between my typo and her tag. sorry for the confusion.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey BEAVIS?

You'll Be Fine!

If It Keeps Going The Same Direction It's Been Going For Several Years,You'll Still Be Able To Advertise Guided TROPHY SPIKE/PISSCUTTER Bull Elk Hunts!

You'll Always Have Enough Clients That Are Willing To Pay A NOMINAL F'N FEE For A DINK Bull!

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Hey Elkassassin, I'm new around here so maybe this is a dumb question but have you actually ever killed anything in the past 20 years? You talk a ton but it really doesn't seem like you have a dog in the fight? If there are no trophy animals left that meet your expectations and every amazing animal on the mountain is a 'Pisscutter" then why do you care so much? Seems like your frustration comes from needing a new hobby? Just my observation.----SS

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Sparks!

You Ain't That New Around Here!

I Guess I Don't Hunt According To You MM Pro's That Know Everything!

HINT:

I Know First Hand What It Use To Be!

HINT # 2:

I Know What It Is Today!

If They Hunt It Clear Out,People Like BEAVIS Will Have To Put More Effort In To Guiding For TROPHY Utah Chubs!

 

[slamdunk]

I've been skimming through this thread trying to get my heart and soul back into why I am even on this forum after the barrage of bullets I've been taking for the past few months on other topics.

I'd like to chime in here on my thoughts of the Satch.

I had a mid season tag this fall I drew with only 6 points.
Was I excited when I got the notice I had drawn?
Yes and no.

I knew what I was facing after a rough winter, tag allotments heavily shifted to my season and general season spike hunters in a very popular unit for both hunting and regular non hunting enthusiasts all over that unit.

I knew I had some work to do, but I felt confident since I've been on this unit my entire life.

Early season scouting was not looking as glamorous as I had hoped, the elk were scattered about in smaller pods and I was speculating it was due to the abundance of excellent feed conditions and water everywhere.

Having mentioned habitat and water, where did the theory of drought years brings poor antler growth go?
According to that theory, antler growth should have been phenomenal this year, right?
My point I've stated for years was proven this year by nature....."genetics".
We had all the right elements on the Satch this year, except age class/genetics in that combination.
There are some older bulls left, absolutely yes, but not many with the right recipe.

By the time the 1st ALW hunt arrived, I had 4 bulls over 330 pinned down and one absolute stud, one of the biggest bull I've seen to date on that unit, but several others had also see him and his nick name was "Poison Ridge Monster".

I hunted hard and solid for the first 9 days of my hunt.
I had two really good bulls ratholed in a walk in area .
One was a 7x6 and he was in there with a 360ish 6x6.
I confirmed them both still there the day before the opener.
Well.....that was spoiled before the sun came up by a motorcycle going off the trail and up the mountain in the dark and a barrage of flashlight hunters approaching off the top.

I bounced around for a week trying to locate a decent bull but never saw anything worthy of punching my tag.
I went back to work but had the last day of the hunt off to hope for some type of miracle.

I caught wind of an unfamiliar area that was full of bulls, so I banked on it.
It was the right information and a good choice on my end and I got it done by 8:10 that morning.
I located the herd of 13 bulls that I was told about and didn't take any risks holding out for something that may or may not have been in there.
I killed the first decent bull I saw in the group.....bird in the hand situation.

Having said all that, I still believe the Satch will yield a few really good bulls going forward but like Beavis and others pointed out, this unit in now exactly what they want it to be.....a 6.5 year old bull unit and a LOT of "opportunity".

The best part of this, is I learned a new spot, and hope I can help someone next year kill a bull.
I work for cheap, I'm just not easy

 

[Stubaby]

I've been skimming through this thread trying to get my heart and soul back into why I am even on this forum after the barrage of bullets I've been taking for the past few months on other topics.

I'd like to chime in here on my thoughts of the Satch.

I had a mid season tag this fall I drew with only 6 points.
Was I excited when I got the notice I had drawn?
Yes and no.

I knew what I was facing after a rough winter, tag allotments heavily shifted to my season and general season spike hunters in a very popular unit for both hunting and regular non hunting enthusiasts all over that unit.

I knew I had some work to do, but I felt confident since I've been on this unit my entire life.

Early season scouting was not looking as glamorous as I had hoped, the elk were scattered about in smaller pods and I was speculating it was due to the abundance of excellent feed conditions and water everywhere.

Having mentioned habitat and water, where did the theory of drought years brings poor antler growth go?
According to that theory, antler growth should have been phenomenal this year, right?
My point I've stated for years was proven this year by nature....."genetics".
We had all the right elements on the Satch this year, except age class/genetics in that combination.
There are some older bulls left, absolutely yes, but not many with the right recipe.

By the time the 1st ALW hunt arrived, I had 4 bulls over 330 pinned down and one absolute stud, one of the biggest bull I've seen to date on that unit, but several others had also see him and his nick name was "Poison Ridge Monster".

I hunted hard and solid for the first 9 days of my hunt.
I had two really good bulls ratholed in a walk in area .
One was a 7x6 and he was in there with a 360ish 6x6.
I confirmed them both still there the day before the opener.
Well.....that was spoiled before the sun came up by a motorcycle going off the trail and up the mountain in the dark and a barrage of flashlight hunters approaching off the top.

I bounced around for a week trying to locate a decent bull but never saw anything worthy of punching my tag.
I went back to work but had the last day of the hunt off to hope for some type of miracle.

I caught wind of an unfamiliar area that was full of bulls, so I banked on it.
It was the right information and a good choice on my end and I got it done by 8:10 that morning.
I located the herd of 13 bulls that I was told about and didn't take any risks holding out for something that may or may not have been in there.
I killed the first decent bull I saw in the group.....bird in the hand situation.

Having said all that, I still believe the Satch will yield a few really good bulls going forward but like Beavis and others pointed out, this unit in now exactly what they want it to be.....a 6.5 year old bull unit and a LOT of "opportunity".

The best part of this, is I learned a new spot, and hope I can help someone next year kill a bull.
I work for cheap, I'm just not easy

Did the poison ridge monster get killed? Any pics?

The two bulls I saw this year over 340” are still alive. I can’t believe it but they both made it through all the hunts.

 

[slamdunk]

Did the poison ridge monster get killed? Any pics?

The two bulls I saw this year over 340” are still alive. I can’t believe it but they both made it through all the hunts.

I never heard story of him being taken, I'm sure @berrysblaster would have heard something.
I saw that bull twice, he was a tank.
Watched him through my spotter walk within a hundred yards of a hunter who couldn't see him, that was frustrating to witness.
I was actually shocked at the amount of people who asked me if I had seen that bull, he was definitely not a secret, he was just extremely lucky.

I know for a personal fact that several good bulls made it past this years hunts.
I was helping a late season girl in the area I killed my bull and those big groups of bulls were still there.
The girl ended up killing a nice old 5x5 that we passed a few days before hoping to connect on one of the bigger bulls but she ran out of time and we needed to get done.

 

[Stubaby]

I never heard story of him being taken, I'm sure @berrysblaster would have heard something.
I saw that bull twice, he was a tank.
Watched him through my spotter walk within a hundred yards of a hunter who couldn't see him, that was frustrating to witness.
I was actually shocked at the amount of people who asked me if I had seen that bull, he was definitely not a secret, he was just extremely lucky.

I know for a personal fact that several good bulls made it past this years hunts.
I was helping a late season girl in the area I killed my bull and those big groups of bulls were still there.
The girl ended up killing a nice old 5x5 that we passed a few days before hoping to connect on one of the bigger bulls but she ran out of time and we needed to get done.

Where the pics of all these bulls?

You could at least text them to me.

 

[slamdunk]

Where the pics of all these bulls?

You could at least text them to me.

I only have the three bulls we killed, nothing alive other than a couple raggys.

My new phone camera doesn't zoom well with the phonescope because of three apertures.

 

[Bugleguy75]

That’s a crap question and you know it. Half the state took a 40” hit this year. Maybe it’s because of management, but last time I checked deseret handles that themselves, and they took the same beating.

We struggled, killed a bunch of 250-300” bulls. Wasn’t for lack of animals, I saw elk everywhere. Healthy herds, regularly ran across groups of 20-50 with drainages that held 100’s of elk. What I saw lines up with flight data which has the unit over objective at 10000+.

Does antler size recover? No idea. Brian isn’t wrong about quality last year, it was awful. The hunters we had in camp weren’t that concerned about it, we hunted hard, had fun, and for the most part they went away fulfilled.

If I was a gambling guy tho, I would spend on points on northern units next year. Looks like a short winter setting up, regardless of snow depth it’s mid December and animals haven’t been hit with snow or cold yet. That bodes well.

I agree with your post. We suspected quality was down this year before the hunts started and warned the hunters to the point of suggesting they may want to turn their Wasatch tags in. None did and they were happy with the bulls (small 6x6s) they killed. I spend 2-3 weeks each year on the Wasatch and this is the first year I feel I didn't see a bull over 340". What will next year bring? It's anyone's guess. I don't know if a bulls health recovers enough in one year for big antler growth after the beating they took last winter. I'll still apply for a tag but I think if I was spending important money an auction tag I would probably wait a year and see about recovery or pick a unit that wasn't quite as brutalized.

 

[slamdunk]

I agree with your post. We suspected quality was down this year before the hunts started and warned the hunters to the point of suggesting they may want to turn their Wasatch tags in. None did and they were happy with the bulls (small 6x6s) they killed. I spend 2-3 weeks each year on the Wasatch and this is the first year I feel I didn't see a bull over 340". What will next year bring? It's anyone's guess. I don't know if a bulls health recovers enough in one year for big antler growth after the beating they took last winter. I'll still apply for a tag but I think if I was spending important money an auction tag I would probably wait a year and see about recovery or pick a unit that wasn't quite as brutalized.

What do you personally feel the issue was this year?

The unit is bull heavy, definitely no shortage there.

The water and habitat were the best in a decade, antler growth should have been there.

Did we skim the top age class off the last two years?
I'd have a hard time swallowing that one, personally.

I saw a fair amount of higher end bulls, I just couldn't get them in my rifle scope.

One thing I did notice was the biggest bulls I saw weren't with cows, except one over in the head of Chipman, he had about 15 and the big one on Poison had about 10.

It appeared younger bulls held the most cows from the first of the rut through October.

I do know one thing for certain.
There were a lot of bulls that didn't get killed on the new 5 day early ALW hunt, and mid season hunters were taking whatever they could put in their cross hairs.

Next year might be a whole other story.

 

[t_boneking]

I spent more time on the Wasatch this year than in years past. I saw lots of elk and lots of small bulls. I saw one good bull but he got killed on the late hunt. Here are a few pictures of him.

 

[Stubaby]

I spent more time on the Wasatch this year than in years past. I saw lots of elk and lots of small bulls. I saw one good bull but he got killed on the late hunt. Here are a few pictures of him.

View attachment 130689

View attachment 130690

View attachment 130691

You got any pics of him dead? You know what he scored just for fun?

 

[t_boneking]

I got the picture from a friend, and I dont know who the the hunter is, but I’ll post it anyways. I don’t know a score. I’m guessing mid 340’s?

 

[slamdunk]

Good looking bull, congrats to the hunter

 

[Stubaby]

I got the picture from a friend, and I dont know who the the hunter is, but I’ll post it anyways. I don’t know a score. I’m guessing mid 340’s?

View attachment 130695

That’s a super nice bull.

 

[hossblur]

Helping someone who has the tag is just as fun as having it. I’d rather have older age class bulls to look at and wait my turn for the most part.

Looking over rag horns and 260 class 5x5s on an LE unit gets old!!!

You would.


I have a 13 yr old and a 18yr old.

The 13 yr old realistically is looking at Le elk being oil especially for a top unit.

18 yr old is close to that.


I guarantee they would rather shoot 300" bulls than help someone

 

[Stubaby]

You would.


I have a 13 yr old and a 18yr old.

The 13 yr old realistically is looking at Le elk being oil especially for a top unit.

18 yr old is close to that.


I guarantee they would rather shoot 300" bulls than help someone

“You would”
Is that a question?

I started building elk points in 2004 when I was 24. The top units would still be 15 or more years away. It’s always been that way. I drew Wasatch late in 2019 with 14 points.

Either one of your kids can draw a Wasatch tag in the next decade or so. Nothing wrong with helping people along the way while you wait your turn.

What’s your point?

 

[hossblur]

“You would”
Is that a question?

I started building elk points in 2004 when I was 24. The top units would still be 15 or more years away. It’s always been that way. I drew Wasatch late in 2019 with 14 points.

Either one of your kids can draw a Wasatch tag in the next decade or so. Nothing wrong with helping people along the way while you wait your turn.

What’s your point?

You said

Helping someone who has the tag is just as fun as having it.

My response is the same as berry's that you speak for a small but vocal minority.

They put in on Manti, which is close to points in Wasatch and there's not a chance they are drawing an elk in a decade or so.

I've drawn it once and started putting in the first year it went LE.

And that's the Manti/Wasatch.

The next level of units for 13 yr old looks oil.


Berry nailed it. We bought into the Spider Bull or 400" on every unit mentality.

 

[Stubaby]

It takes less

You said

Helping someone who has the tag is just as fun as having it.

My response is the same as berry's that you speak for a small but vocal minority.

They put in on Manti, which is close to points in Wasatch and there's not a chance they are drawing an elk in a decade or so.

I've drawn it once and started putting in the first year it went LE.

And that's the Manti/Wasatch.

The next level of units for 13 yr old looks oil.


Berry nailed it. We bought into the Spider Bull or 400" on every unit mentality.

The vast majority of hunters applying for an LE tag are not hoping for a 250” bull. Most have a 300-320” bull in their minds when they go sight the rifle in. These Manti odds are pretty favorable. A dozen years is not OIL.

If you can’t kill a 300” on the late manti then you aren’t looking very hard and should have spent the prior years helping others so you know where to find them.

I still have no idea what your point is. I killed a bull in 2019. I’ve helped others kill every year since. It’s just as satisfying helping others as it was pulling the trigger myself…..sorry if that hurts your feelings.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Stu’s feelings are valid. It’s where I’m at TBH. I get way more satisfaction out of helping others than I do trigger pulling myself. I wasn’t always this way though, once upon a time I was a 14 yr old kid who woke up 2 hrs early and locked himself out of the house on a frigid opening morning because he was so excited to be the one behind the gun. Felt so bad I didn’t want to wake anyone up so I froze for about 1.5 hrs before my grandma finally work up to start hot chocolate and let me in. Point being, I think it’s important to consider where others are before making blanket assumptions based off our personal current circumstances.

That being said, the math is dismal at best for new or semi new applicants. When you start to figure out how much point creep 0-5 point applicants are going to wade through before they hit bonus tag territory even the more obtainable permits become OIL.

 

[Shadow]

I get what you’re saying Stu, far as helping others. I have enjoyed helping friends and family kill dozens of bulls since drawing my own tag 18 years ago but Manti isn’t anywhere near a dozen years hunt for a 14 year old just starting into points, when there’s 1400 guys in the point brackets above him.

 

[Stubaby]

I get what you’re saying Stu, far as helping others. I have enjoyed helping friends and family kill dozens of bulls since drawing my own tag 18 years ago but Manti isn’t anywhere near a dozen years hunt for a 14 year old just starting into points, when there’s 1400 guys in the point brackets above him.

At 176 tags a year that’s absolutely what’s going to happen. You start putting in for manti mid season right now and I’d be surprised if they don’t draw in 12 years. They’ll probably pull a random tag before then.

There’s only so many elk to go around. Are people really wanting to have the DNR issue more tags for the manti and Wasatch and FL than they did this year?

If you really want to get the wind let out of your sails then look at LE Deer numbers. Those are OIL!! I have 14 deer points and I’m in no mans land. I can’t draw a deer tag that gives me a shot at a 5.5-6.5 year old deer like the local elk units can for that many points.

 

[hossblur]

It takes less


View attachment 130802View attachment 130803View attachment 130804


The vast majority of hunters applying for an LE tag are not hoping for a 250” bull. Most have a 300-320” bull in their minds when they go sight the rifle in. These Manti odds are pretty favorable. A dozen years is not OIL.

If you can’t kill a 300” on the late manti then you aren’t looking very hard and should have spent the prior years helping others so you know where to find them.

I still have no idea what your point is. I killed a bull in 2019. I’ve helped others kill every year since. It’s just as satisfying helping others as it was pulling the trigger myself…..sorry if that hurts your feelings.

It's not a dozen years for the rifle tag.

It was a dozen years late last year, but remember point creep.


Again. I'll assume your not 18. And that you have as you say drawn tags. So your perspective isn't the perspective of the majority which has been shown in the polling for the elk committee.

 

[elkassassin]

Wasatch Will Be A Little Easier To Draw Next Year!

But Hossy!

Pay Close Attention!

PUMPKINS Everywhere & Watch For Overlapping Hunts!

 

[hossblur]

Wasatch Will Be A Little Easier To Draw Next Year!

But Hossy!

Pay Close Attention!

PUMPKINS Everywhere & Watch For Overlapping Hunts!

Maybe.

I ve helped on Wasatch. It's a fun unit.

 

[Shadow]

There’s always that chance of a random tag, and that’s the beauty of the Utah system but odds are certainly stacked against those just starting into the points pool. Aside from getting lucky, Utah LE elk is pretty much once in a lifetime.

 

[DBG3285]

It's not a dozen years for the rifle tag.

It was a dozen years late last year, but remember point creep.


Again. I'll assume your not 18. And that you have as you say drawn tags. So your perspective isn't the perspective of the majority which has been shown in the polling for the elk committee.

Historically, point creep effects the top tier units worse then the mid and lower tier.

At 176 tags and 1400 people, (yes I realize there is a new pool of hunters each year, and people that swap areas and so forth.) but that roughly takes 8 years to cycle through those 1400.

But if you look at the manti, Wasatch and many other units in the state, even with hunter numbers increasing, the average wait time is decreasing on these and other units.

I know the year I had the Wasatch tag. You had to have 17 points to be guaranteed a tag.

Even with the drastic cut in tags this year, you are still in the same boat. With the increase in tags, split seasons, etc etc, a LE elk tag will be attainable at least 2 times in someone who is 18 at this application.

The quality on those units is not what it was, and with the tag numbers as well as other factors, it never will be.

But you see that reflected, in the amount of people applying for those units. Realistically with all the social media, anyone truly applying for those units with a 350+ expectation is fooling themselves.

Most are going to be looking for the experience of a lot of elk, and good times. That is what the state is shooting for with these herds as they are the closer proximity to the largest populations.

 

[slamdunk]

I love helping others as well, but I did it professionally for 24 years so I guess I'm programmed that way.
I had a Wasatch tag this year myself and still helped 6 other hunters.

I'll personally never see another elk tag in Utah, unless the "E-Word" brings me luck

 

[Vanilla]

I have helped two brothers now on Wasatch muzzy elk tags. They were a lot of fun.

I absolutely get what others are saying in that you enjoy it as much as having the tag. I have zero pressure when helping others. I have a 100% chance of NOT shooting an animal on those hunts, but get to enjoy the thrill of the hunt otherwise. So no pressure to tag out, and all the fun.

Sign me up!

 

[Aerosith]

One of the issues here is the "I need to draw this LE tag to kill a 300+ bull", yes its easier to kill big bulls in areas with higher age class and lower hunting pressure. But there are 300"+ bulls on almost every unit that holds elk in the west. There are people that kill big bulls nearly every year on easy to draw units or even OTC hunts. We need to shift the focus on hard work and hunting ability instead of "this unit sucks", though some areas are more difficult but hunting success in hunting is never guaranteed.

 

[DBG3285]

One of the issues here is the "I need to draw this LE tag to kill a 300+ bull", yes its easier to kill big bulls in areas with higher age class and lower hunting pressure. But there are 300"+ bulls on almost every unit that holds elk in the west. There are people that kill big bulls nearly every year on easy to draw units or even OTC hunts. We need to shift the focus on hard work and hunting ability instead of "this unit sucks", though some areas are more difficult but hunting success in hunting is never guaranteed.

Everything in this statement is very much true!

But one of the big arguments people have, and will continue to have. Is 15 years ago, people on the Wasatch were all 350+ was the goal.

I have seen the question by multiple people in this thread complain more about the quality, and its decline. More so then the quantity.

But again the state has not denied that units like the Wasatch, they are turning more to opportunity hunts. Where the quality of animal won’t be any different then most any bull units, but the quantity of animals will, and that should lead to a more satisfactory hunt in the majority of peoples eyes.

Look at the questions on their current surveys. They tell you what they are after.

 

[Aerosith]

Everything in this statement is very much true!

But one of the big arguments people have, and will continue to have. Is 15 years ago, people on the Wasatch were all 350+ was the goal.

I have seen the question by multiple people in this thread complain more about the quality, and its decline. More so then the quantity.

But again the state has not denied that units like the Wasatch, they are turning more to opportunity hunts. Where the quality of animal won’t be any different then most any bull units, but the quantity of animals will, and that should lead to a more satisfactory hunt in the majority of peoples eyes.

Look at the questions on their current surveys. They tell you what they are after.

Unfortunately it’s just supply and demand, the demand for high quality elk hunts is higher than ever because of increased hunting interest, social media, and youtube. This brings more people into playing a broken system in terms of points. Even if they removed any point system and made it a random lottery overtime it would become harder and harder over time to draw.
Like others have said above eventually these hunts will get continually degraded in terms of quality, and if this trend continues it will become a general season hunt.
A big problem here is the idea with what a “trophy animal” even is. 95% of 350”+ bulls killed will end up on social media one way or another. It seems like most people label trophy animals by the size of its antlers and not other factors such as a mature animal or a difficult hunt.
The only alternative to preserving quality with an increase of tags is to genetically enhance the elk herds. This has been done with the oak creek unit for deer whether it was intentional or not. But I’m not saying it’s a good idea because even that will skew the idea of what a big bull is overtime or trophy animal. Also it will remove the genetic diversity, but most of these elk are transplants from Yellowstone.
Sadly this is one of those situations not everyone can agree on.

 

[elkassassin]

A PISSCUTTER 300"ER Is Not A Big Bull!

And If You Think It Is?

Forget The Draw & Hunt General PUMPKINS EVERYWHERE Units!

 

[hossblur]

A PISSCUTTER 300"ER Is Not A Big Bull!

And If You Think It Is?

Forget The Draw & Hunt General PUMPKINS EVERYWHERE Units!

You couldn't turn s 300 bull on the south slope if your life depends on it.

300 is a nice 6: point

 

[elkassassin]

Would You Like To Lose Some Money On That Bet?

You couldn't turn s 300 bull on the south slope if your life depends on it.

300 is a nice 6: point

 

[elkassassin]

The South Slope With Some Proper Management Could Of Been As Good As Alot Of Other Units!

But Instead They Turned It In To PUMPKIN Central!

The COW Killin That's Been Going On For Decades Now Is A F'N Joke!

It Ain't Near What It Could Be!

I'll Let One Of My Friends Know There Ain't No 300"+ Bulls On The South Slope As Well!

Him & His Dad Have Took Several 340"+ Bulls & Won't Even Raise A Weapon For A 300" PISSCUTTER!

As Bad As The Antler Growth Was This Year He Still Took A Bull Over 300"!

There Ain't Alot Of Them!

But There Are A Few!

 

[slamdunk]

A PISSCUTTER 300"ER Is Not A Big Bull!

And If You Think It Is?

Forget The Draw & Hunt General PUMPKINS EVERYWHERE Units!

I killed a pisscutter bull this year with my Wasatch tag.

It was the last day take it or leave it situation.

Definitely wasn't the biggest bull I saw on the previous 10 days, but it was the biggest on that day

 

[Stubaby]

Hey Bess,

I want to know where to find elk on the general hunt. I’ve never been on the S-Slope!!

 

[Vanilla]

Hey Bess,

View attachment 130953

I want to know where to find elk on the general hunt. I’ve never been on the S-Slope!!

You didn’t read that correctly. He said he knows a guy that does this. He doesn’t do this.

So Hossy’s claim is still true. If they want to bet, I’m happy to be the judge and arbiter of the issue.

 

[elkassassin]

It's A Good Place Not To Be Stubert!

Hey Bess,

View attachment 130953

I want to know where to find elk on the general hunt. I’ve never been on the S-Slope!!

 

[elkassassin]

Yup!

And His Trophy Room Would Make You WEAP!

There Ain't Many Hunters Left In This World That'd Let 300" PISSCUTTERS Walk!

But That's Your New TROPHY Size Coming Up In LE Units!

What A F'N Shame!

Ah But The F'N Opportunity!

Won't Be Long & Niller Will Call A 200" Bull A Trophy!

If It Keeps Going The Way It's Been Going He Might Be Right!

You didn’t read that correctly. He said he knows a guy that does this. He doesn’t do this.

So Hossy’s claim is still true. If they want to bet, I’m happy to be the judge and arbiter of the issue.

 

[hossblur]

Yup!

And His Trophy Room Would Make You WEAP!

There Ain't Many Hunters Left In This World That'd Let 300" PISSCUTTERS Walk!

But That's Your New TROPHY Size Coming Up In LE Units!

What A F'N Shame!

Ah But The F'N Opportunity!

Won't Be Long & Niller Will Call A 200" Bull A Trophy!

If It Keeps Going The Way It's Been Going He Might Be Right!

Shocking as it may be, very few people will wait 27 years to not shoot an elk.


We are on a thread about the Wasatch, one of the largest areas in the state, that isn't a GS, is controlled, and guys are talking about losing "quality".

Proving only that the "trophy" ideas of 350+ bulls everywhere isn't feasible.

But I'd support the management plan being you can only hunt GS, or put in for le, but not both.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Hossy!

It Won't Be Long & When You're On That LE Elk Unit It'll Be No Different Than A General Season Elk Hunt!

You Might Wanna Scroll Back A Few Years On BEAVIS'S Website & Tell Me It Isn't Feasible!

Just Keep POUNDING Them Down!

Keep Adding More Hunts!

Keep Knocking The Age Class Down!

And What Have You Got?

You've Got What 2023 Showed You And It'll Continue To Get Worse!

But At Least You & Niller Will Be Able To Draw Your Trophy PISSCUTTER Tag!

BEAVIS And The P Boys Have Nothing To Worry About!

They're Close Enough To The Wasatch Front That When It's Down To Nothing But PISSCUTTERS They'll Still Have Plenty Of Clientele!

Shocking as it may be, very few people will wait 27 years to not shoot an elk.


We are on a thread about the Wasatch, one of the largest areas in the state, that isn't a GS, is controlled, and guys are talking about losing "quality".

Proving only that the "trophy" ideas of 350+ bulls everywhere isn't feasible.

But I'd support the management plan being you can only hunt GS, or put in for le, but not both.

 

[hossblur]

Hey Hossy!

It Won't Be Long & When You're On That LE Elk Unit It'll Be No Different Than A General Season Elk Hunt!

You Might Wanna Scroll Back A Few Years On BEAVIS'S Website & Tell Me It Isn't Feasible!

Just Keep POUNDING Them Down!

Keep Adding More Hunts!

Keep Knocking The Age Class Down!

And What Have You Got?

You've Got What 2023 Showed You And It'll Continue To Get Worse!

But At Least You & Niller Will Be Able To Draw Your Trophy PISSCUTTER Tag!

BEAVIS And The P Boys Have Nothing To Worry About!

They're Close Enough To The Wasatch Front That When It's Down To Nothing But PISSCUTTERS They'll Still Have Plenty Of Clientele!

I hunted the Manti before LE, it's the only LE unit I've ever drawn, and the only one I put in for, I'd hunt it in a heartbeat if it went back to GS. My boys(and me when I had multiple season) bow hunt it.

I'm pretty sure, when the end comes, the yearly time I spent on the mtn will mean a ton more, than the time spent reading "unsuccessful" letters from DWR.

 

[elkassassin]

And With Your Statement Here Hossy:

But I'd support the management plan being you can only hunt GS, or put in for le, but not both.

You Just Shot Niller In The Foot!

He/They/You Want All The F'N Opportunity You Can Get & Then You Type That!

 

[Bugleguy75]

What do you personally feel the issue was this year?

The unit is bull heavy, definitely no shortage there.

The water and habitat were the best in a decade, antler growth should have been there.

Did we skim the top age class off the last two years?
I'd have a hard time swallowing that one, personally.

I saw a fair amount of higher end bulls, I just couldn't get them in my rifle scope.

One thing I did notice was the biggest bulls I saw weren't with cows, except one over in the head of Chipman, he had about 15 and the big one on Poison had about 10.

It appeared younger bulls held the most cows from the first of the rut through October.

I do know one thing for certain.
There were a lot of bulls that didn't get killed on the new 5 day early ALW hunt, and mid season hunters were taking whatever they could put in their cross hairs.

Next year might be a whole other story.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. One biologist suggested that last year winter came too early , was too hard, and lasted too long. He felt the bulls didn't regain body condition soon enough to grow large antlers. Snowpack lasted a long time. I can agree with his conclusions as to why antler growth was hurt this year.
Another thought is the largest bulls are often the first to succumb to a bitter winter. Their body condition is often in the worst shape at this time of the year because of the draw down of the rut. In an early bitter winter they may not have enough time to rebuild fat reserves.
We did see lots of smaller bulls on the hunts, fewer higher end bulls than usual. In the canyons we hunted the herds were smaller than usual with smaller 6x6s often tending 5 or 6 cows. It will be interesting to see how the bulls bounce back if we have a mild winter. Fingers crossed.

 

[middlefork]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. One biologist suggested that last year winter came too early , was too hard, and lasted too long. He felt the bulls didn't regain body condition soon enough to grow large antlers. Snowpack lasted a long time. I can agree with his conclusions as to why antler growth was hurt this year.
Another thought is the largest bulls are often the first to succumb to a bitter winter. Their body condition is often in the worst shape at this time of the year because of the draw down of the rut. In an early bitter winter they may not have enough time to rebuild fat reserves.
We did see lots of smaller bulls on the hunts, fewer higher end bulls than usual. In the canyons we hunted the herds were smaller than usual with smaller 6x6s often tending 5 or 6 cows. It will be interesting to see how the bulls bounce back if we have a mild winter. Fingers crossed.

Finally something that makes sense.
The doom and gloom is large in this crowd.

 

[Vanilla]

And With Your Statement Here Hossy:

But I'd support the management plan being you can only hunt GS, or put in for le, but not both.

You Just Shot Niller In The Foot!

Not really. I’m starting to be convinced this is the only way to proceed forward.

Let the trophy people get in line for their top end tag and hunt once a lifetime if that’s really what they want. Let the opportunists hunt the less desirable tags that the trophy hunters berate constantly. I say cut tags on the top 6-8 units by 75% as well.

The people that like to hunt and don’t care as much about measuring success in inches or compensating for a lack thereof can hunt often and enjoy life, and those that are compensating can have an handful of units that produce monsters every year that they can’t hunt and still be miserable and wrong. Everyone is happy at that point.

 

[elkassassin]

What Would You Need An LE Tag For?

You Can Hunt PISSCUTTERS Nearly Every Year At PUMPKIN Central!

Not really. I’m starting to be convinced this is the only way to proceed forward.

Let the trophy people get in line for their top end tag and hunt once a lifetime if that’s really what they want. Let the opportunists hunt the less desirable tags that the trophy hunters berate constantly. I say cut tags on the top 6-8 units by 75% as well.

The people that like to hunt and don’t care as much about measuring success in inches or compensating for a lack thereof can hunt often and enjoy life, and those that are compensating can have an handful of units that produce monsters every year that they can’t hunt and still be miserable and wrong. Everyone is happy at that point.

 

[Vanilla]

Put all elk tags, including general season bulls, spikes, and cow elk tags on the same point system. Let you trophy only guys that measure your inches put your money where your mouth is and let me put my money where my mouth is.

Nobody gets to complain anymore. There is something for everyone. Choose what is most important to you, and live with the results.

 

[elkassassin]

You're Not Gonna Have Calf Tags?

WTF?

Put all elk tags, including general season bulls, spikes, and cow elk tags on the same point system. Let you trophy only guys that measure your inches put your money where your mouth is and let me put my money where my mouth is.

Nobody gets to complain anymore. There is something for everyone. Choose what is most important to you, and live with the results.

 

[Vanilla]

I just laugh that when an idea that will give you what you claim you want comes out, those beechin the loudest are not for it in the long run. Put your money where your mouth is!

You just want my opportunity taken away, not yours. Like always.

I actually heard a rumor they were talking about putting everyone but LL holders in one pool. All animals in one point pool. No more separate species draws. But LL will still get a deer tag of our choice in addition to whatever else we draw. I heard it Bessy! They were talkin.

 

[elkassassin]

Not So!

I Want You To Have Your PISSCUTTER Opportunity!

And If You Heard A RUMOR It Must Be True!

 

[Stubaby]

All LE tags should be lever action open sight 30-30s moving forward???

 

[elkassassin]

Yes!

But They Need To Be Limited to A 1X Scope!

BAWL!

BAWL,Babies!

All LE tags should be lever action open sight 30-30s moving forward???

 

[Horsecorn]

The South Slope With Some Proper Management Could Of Been As Good As Alot Of Other Units!

But Instead They Turned It In To PUMPKIN Central!

The COW Killin That's Been Going On For Decades Now Is A F'N Joke!

It Ain't Near What It Could Be!

I'll Let One Of My Friends Know There Ain't No 300"+ Bulls On The South Slope As Well!

Him & His Dad Have Took Several 340"+ Bulls & Won't Even Raise A Weapon For A 300" PISSCUTTER!

As Bad As The Antler Growth Was This Year He Still Took A Bull Over 300"!

There Ain't Alot Of Them!

But There Are A Few!

assassin knows where there are 300” bulls on the south slope, don’t let him kid you. I personally watched him pass over 15 to 20 bulls in one evening on the muzzle hunt. He got in the middle of over 150 head. There were lots of bulls in the bunch but too many to Get a good count. Watched them walk within 20 yards of him. He never pulled the trigger. No 340” bulls in the herd. Wasn’t a 300” either, but considering the poor year it was for horn growth and an open bull unit. What the hell!

 

[elkassassin]

But Remember And read what's Posted Above Horsecorn!

There Are Not Any 300" Bulls On The South Slope!

Ya!

We Like Like It Like That!

I'm Not Boasting There Are Alot Of BIG Bulls On The South Slope!

But I've Seen You & Your Dad Take Who Knows How Many!

I Don't Ever Remember You taking A 300" PISSCUTTER Bull!

So Maybe I'm Wrong?

assassin knows where there are 300” bulls on the south slope, don’t let him kid you. I personally watched him pass over 15 to 20 bulls in one evening on the muzzle hunt. He got in the middle of over 150 head. There were lots of bulls in the bunch but too many to Get a good count. Watched them walk within 20 yards of him. He never pulled the trigger. No 340” bulls in the herd. Wasn’t a 300” either, but considering the poor year it was for horn growth and an open bull unit. What the hell!

 

[elkassassin]

Let's Just Say This Horsecorn!

If You Can Smell The Elk?

You're Too Damn Close To Them!