Why experts say the West's deer population is at 'inflection point' after another drop in 2021

[Hawkeye]

KSL is reporting that our deer herds dropped another 10% from December 2020 to December 2021 . . . but the good news is we have apparently hit an "inflection point" and are about to turn the corner. ? I will personally believe it when I see it.

https://www.ksl.com/article/5034678...t-inflection-point-after-another-drop-in-2021

I am not a wildlife biologist but the more that I have learned about the challenges facing our deer herds the more I have come to believe that there is no single factor that is negatively impacting our herds and no single change will improve the situation. Unfortunately, our deer herds face numerous challenges, including drought, loss of winter range, increased vehicle mortality, increased competition from elk, increased predator numbers, extended hunting pressure, improvements in hunting technology, CWD and other diseases, etc. Some of these factors can be controlled or influenced by the DWR but many cannot. Utah has dumped tens of millions of dollars on habitat improvement, fencing, wildlife crossings, and research projects over the last 20 years and yet our deer numbers continue to decline. Some will argue that the population declines would be even worse but for these efforts. That may be true. However, the reality is that no western state, including Utah, has found the answer to significantly helping our deer herds.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about whether we truly are at an inflection point where our deer herds will now begin to rebound? And whether the millions of dollars that we have pumped in conservation efforts are making any real difference with our deer herds?

Personally believe that the factors that are having the largest impact on our deer herds are (1) the extended drought; (2) increased number of predators; and (3) increased human population and vehicle mortality. Unfortunately, #1 is out of our control and we will have a tough time making any real headway on #2 and #3.

Hawkeye

 

[grizzly]

I can't figure out how they could possibly know we're at an inflection point. It's not until that has passed that you can recognize it in the rearview mirror.

I think the number one issue is 'habitat' as the loss of habitat increases the likelihood of human conflict, consolidates herds making them more susceptible to predation and disease, and limits food supplies and survivability in both drought years and bad winters. Loss of habitat also makes deer more likely to lose in the annual competition with elk for prime fawning/calving grounds.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Agree it is nearly impossible to say we are at an inflection point. What we really need is mother nature to cooperate and give us some more snow and rain in the coming weeks or this drought is going to continue to pummel our herds.

If fawns aren't surviving and does are not in great shape, our herds are in trouble. We definitely can't control mother nature and drought, but I would love to see us double down on putting resources and money towards all of the things we have some control over, such as building more guzzlers, increased predator control, and fence building to limit vehicle mortality.

 

[Founder]

They have no clue if we’re at an inflection point or not. It’s just one guys guess. We can all take a guess.

If you’re in charge of an organization (as Mr. Pedersen is) who’s purpose is to improve mule deer habitat via donations and grants, you’ve got to at least make it sound like that money is doing some good with comments like this, “The turning point isn't just because of rain but also efforts to help deer habitats coming from all sorts of places, including government agencies and organizations.”
They need to keep the dough coming in and positive comments are better than negative.

It’s just his hope, and a guess, that we’re at an inflection point. I hope we are too, but my guess is that we’ll never see any substantial increases in deer numbers. Of course we might have a couple years here and there when we might see some small increases, but I don’t believe we’ll ever see a complete turnaround. I hate to be a downer, but my guess is that when I die, there’ll be less mule deer than there are today. Hopefully I’m wrong!

Some believe that success is seeing an increase in deer numbers, whereas I believe success is seeing the slowest decline possible. Unfortunately there’s no way to really know if all that money is slowing the decline or not and if it’s worth all those auction tags we have here in Utah.

It’s a bummer to see the deer decline as we have over the past 40 years, but it was bound to happen with increasing human populations and the technological advances we’ve had.

 

[Bux n Dux]

One of the worst things utah ever did was manage lion and bears for a “trophy” species. Protecting them as hard as they did and managing them as a trophy hunting opportunity really hurt deer chances of staying high in population numbers. The one biologist for the state said they have collared cats killing a fawn every 3 days. Way more than the 1 a week we have all been told by the experts. Bears certainly do their fair damage as well when fawns are being born. If they did all lion and bear hunts OTC with harvest objective limits on females in the hunt areas, I think we’d see numbers start to increase.

Winter range is an issue, but not as bad as we like to fantasize about. There are many areas in the state where winter range is almost endless and there are no deer to be found on them. We need to correct some other issues first before they even get to the point of needing a place to spend the winter.

Another thing we need to stop doing, is shooting does until we have numbers to support doing that. For 5 months, ranchers and cattlemen graze their animals for private gain, for almost next to nothing with the fees they pay. Those cattle take precious resources from our wildlife during that time. The public is told to deal with it and then get told a bunch of lies on how public grazing is “beneficial” to everyone. But Then they turn around in the winter months and complain about the wildlife taking food from their cattle and expect these animals to be killed. It’s gotta be a 2 ways street on these issues and right now it is a very tight one way street. The state needs to tell them to deal with it until numbers are strong enough to justify any kind of doe hunts.

The habitat projects are great and will be beneficial at some point hopefully. But right now they do us no good when there aren’t any animals to take advantage of what’s being done. We need to take a look at our priorities right now with deer numbers and make efforts to create and save more deer. Just because you put in a guzzler, doesn’t mean 100 deer will magically appear from thin air.

 

[roadrunner]

but it was bound to happen with increasing human populations.

Or maybe a "reshuffling" of human populations. As a person now drives into Cache Valley, there are houses on the Wellsville bench that never used to be there. 20 years ago, it was scrub oak, grass, and fields.

Housing and commerce developments in critical winter range has not been a friend to deer populations over the years.

 

[elkassassin]

They have no clue if we’re at an inflection point or not. It’s just one guys guess. We can all take a guess.

If you’re in charge of an organization (as Mr. Pedersen is) who’s purpose is to improve mule deer habitat via donations and grants, you’ve got to at least make it sound like that money is doing some good with comments like this, “The turning point isn't just because of rain but also efforts to help deer habitats coming from all sorts of places, including government agencies and organizations.”
They need to keep the dough coming in and positive comments are better than negative.

It’s just his hope, and a guess, that we’re at an inflection point. I hope we are too, but my guess is that we’ll never see any substantial increases in deer numbers. Of course we might have a couple years here and there when we might see some small increases, but I don’t believe we’ll ever see a complete turnaround. I hate to be a downer, but my guess is that when I die, there’ll be less mule deer than there are today. Hopefully I’m wrong!

Some believe that success is seeing an increase in deer numbers, whereas I believe success is seeing the slowest decline possible. Unfortunately there’s no way to really know if all that money is slowing the decline or not and if it’s worth all those auction tags we have here in Utah.

It’s a bummer to see the deer decline as we have over the past 40 years, but it was bound to happen with increasing human populations and the technological advances we’ve had.

It's Not 40 Years!

It's 50 Years!

But The Last 30 Have Been Devi stating!

 

[Robiland]

I talked to an outfitter this last week about the trail cam ban and how he was mad and how I supported the ban. But later he mentioned he talked with some biologist for southern Utah and talked specifically about some of the habitat projects in southern Utah. And I dont remember the exact amounts, but it was crazy. So he mentioned that some of the PRE-project areas would hold like 100 pounds of feed per acre. But now, POST-preject, (even this last year with the drought) held over 1000 pounds of feed per acre. But we just dont have the deer to use those area.

Someone may have that info, and please share if you do. It was very interesting.

This really got me thinking, what can we do?

 

[elkassassin]

When The Apples Quit Hitting The Ground the Poundage Per Acre Went Way Down!

 

[middlefork]

I talked to an outfitter this last week about the trail cam ban and how he was mad and how I supported the ban. But later he mentioned he talked with some biologist for southern Utah and talked specifically about some of the habitat projects in southern Utah. And I dont remember the exact amounts, but it was crazy. So he mentioned that some of the PRE-project areas would hold like 100 pounds of feed per acre. But now, POST-preject, (even this last year with the drought) held over 1000 pounds of feed per acre. But we just dont have the deer to use those area.

Someone may have that info, and please share if you do. It was very interesting.

This really got me thinking, what can we do?

It would be great to see some more information on this.
Because everything points to malnutrition due to drought as the leading cause.

 

[slamdunk]

One of the worst things utah ever did was manage lion and bears for a “trophy” species. Protecting them as hard as they did and managing them as a trophy hunting opportunity really hurt deer chances of staying high in population numbers. The one biologist for the state said they have collared cats killing a fawn every 3 days. Way more than the 1 a week we have all been told by the experts. Bears certainly do their fair damage as well when fawns are being born. If they did all lion and bear hunts OTC with harvest objective limits on females in the hunt areas, I think we’d see numbers start to increase.

Winter range is an issue, but not as bad as we like to fantasize about. There are many areas in the state where winter range is almost endless and there are no deer to be found on them. We need to correct some other issues first before they even get to the point of needing a place to spend the winter.

Another thing we need to stop doing, is shooting does until we have numbers to support doing that. For 5 months, ranchers and cattlemen graze their animals for private gain, for almost next to nothing with the fees they pay. Those cattle take precious resources from our wildlife during that time. The public is told to deal with it and then get told a bunch of lies on how public grazing is “beneficial” to everyone. But Then they turn around in the winter months and complain about the wildlife taking food from their cattle and expect these animals to be killed. It’s gotta be a 2 ways street on these issues and right now it is a very tight one way street. The state needs to tell them to deal with it until numbers are strong enough to justify any kind of doe hunts.

The habitat projects are great and will be beneficial at some point hopefully. But right now they do us no good when there aren’t any animals to take advantage of what’s being done. We need to take a look at our priorities right now with deer numbers and make efforts to create and save more deer. Just because you put in a guzzler, doesn’t mean 100 deer will magically appear from thin air.

A guzzler doesn't make poor habitat healthy, it's sole purpose is to offer a drink. Drought is killing us lately.
We can build a thousand guzzlers but animals will still starve.

And loss of winter range isn't hurting the whole state, it only impacts Urban areas like the Wasatch Front.
Units like Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, Panguitch, etc, etc have millions of acres of winter range still, yet deer numbers decline there just as badly if not worse.

 

[Bux n Dux]

A guzzler doesn't make poor habitat healthy, it's sole purpose is to offer a drink. Drought is killing us lately.
We can build a thousand guzzlers but animals will still starve.

And loss of winter range isn't hurting the whole state, it only impacts Urban areas like the Wasatch Front.
Units like Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, Panguitch, etc, etc have millions of acres of winter range still, yet deer numbers decline there just as badly if not worse.

You missed the whole point to my post. Go back, read it again. Then read it again. Think about it. Then reply ??

 

[Delta]

Western U.S. may be entering its most severe drought in modern history

The stage is set for an escalation of extreme dry conditions, with widespread water restrictions expected and yet another dangerous fire season ahead.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[elkassassin]

HINT:

Doing JUST One Thing Ain't Gonna Fix It!

GEEZUS!

Can Anybody See The F'N Light?

I talked to an outfitter this last week about the trail cam ban and how he was mad and how I supported the ban. But later he mentioned he talked with some biologist for southern Utah and talked specifically about some of the habitat projects in southern Utah. And I dont remember the exact amounts, but it was crazy. So he mentioned that some of the PRE-project areas would hold like 100 pounds of feed per acre. But now, POST-preject, (even this last year with the drought) held over 1000 pounds of feed per acre. But we just dont have the deer to use those area.

Someone may have that info, and please share if you do. It was very interesting.

This really got me thinking, what can we do?

 

[elkassassin]

And Yes!

This Is One of The Big Problems!

How You Gonna Fix it?

How bad is the Western drought? New study says worst in 1,200 years. You read that right

It hasn't been this dry in Utah and the rest of the western United States in 12 centuries.

www.ksl.com

 

[slamdunk]

You missed the whole point to my post. Go back, read it again. Then read it again. Think about it. Then reply ??

I know full well what you said, I was validating you and adding comprehensive content......

 

[roadrunner]

And loss of winter range isn't hurting the whole state, it only impacts Urban areas like the Wasatch Front.
Units like Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, Panguitch, etc, etc have millions of acres of winter range still, yet deer numbers decline there just as badly if not worse.

No doubt drought is taking its toll. There is a lot of residential growth in a lot of the more rural areas where there didn't used to be any.

As far as rapid development goes on the urban benches, with the decrease in deer numbers, it may focus more effort on the less (human) populated areas. Granted, the number of tags are capped so it's not like there is an increase in hunter nose count. But, do "city" hunters hunt different than "rural" hunters putting different types of pressure on local deer herds? Maybe?

 

[hossblur]

Is it possible, that the mutant biologically, the mule deer, is genetically doomed to fail to start with?

As the explosion of whitetails continues, in urbanized areas, with vehicles, with all the same reasons pointed to for the mule deers decline.

What were mule deer numbers 100 years ago? No one knows. They assumed if they saw a lot on the farm, or near town, there were a lot. But do we know? Do we know for sure that the boom caused by poison, and chaining, wasn't just a bubble and when those stopped the bubble simply popped?

 

[Hawkeye]

Thanks for the responses. As I said in my original post, I believe there are many factors negatively impacting mule deer numbers and drought is certainly one of them. But this article ignores the questions of: (1) How do the supposed "experts" know that we are now turning a corner to where our deer herds will now begin to rebound? And have the millions of dollars that we have pumped in conservation efforts made any real difference with our deer herds?

My outlook is not quite as negative as Founder's but I personally don't think we can control the primary factors that are negatively impacting mule deer numbers. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Time will tell. In the meantime, pray for rain, shoot every coyote you see, and pick up a cougar tag, if possible.

Hawkeye

 

[muledeer]

I don't believe the numbers were right back in 2018, many people have been complaining there were bad counts. I believe they are finally giving use the real counts and they hope they will go up.

 

[roadrunner]

I don't believe the numbers were right back in 2018, many people have been complaining there were bad counts. I believe they are finally giving use the real counts and they hope they will go up.

I do know the little buck numbers were down in the San Juan unit in 2015 when I had the tag. I also had a GS archery elk the same time, and normally you see little bucks along the main road. There weren't any, and very few does.

The majority of the deer were anywhere from 1 to 1-1/2 miles off the main road, and no little bucks. Something isn't right when you see 20 to 30 does and no spikes or two points.

2016 wasn't much better, but did see some nicer bucks in the 140" to 150" range.

Of course, this is all just anecdotal with no real evidence supporting it...

 

[grizzly]

and pick up a cougar tag, if possible.

How many people could've shot a cougar in their life without dogs? I feel like the DWR could give a free cougar tag with every hunting license and unless the houndsmen wanted to donate their time and take hunters out, it wouldn't put a dent into lion populations.

It just seems that's such a specialized form of hunting that few of us can effectively participate in.

Am I wrong?

 

[SS!]

A guzzler doesn't make poor habitat healthy, it's sole purpose is to offer a drink. Drought is killing us lately.
We can build a thousand guzzlers but animals will still starve.

And loss of winter range isn't hurting the whole state, it only impacts Urban areas like the Wasatch Front.
Units like Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, Panguitch, etc, etc have millions of acres of winter range still, yet deer numbers decline there just as badly if not worse.

It’s scary you disregard winter range loss so openly. I’m glad you’re only a volunteer because to think loss of winter range in one part of the state doesn’t affect the opposite side of the state is purely a naive, biased and closed minded thought process.

We made it 3 posts before someone blamed predators. Usually it’s post 1, growth!

 

[Bux n Dux]

It’s scary you disregard winter range loss so openly. I’m glad you’re only a volunteer because to think loss of winter range in one part of the state doesn’t affect the opposite side of the state is purely a naive, biased and closed minded thought process.

We made it 3 posts before someone blamed predators. Usually it’s post 1, growth!

I could have (should have looking back) shot several over the years. This was prior to the OTC spot and stalk tags. Now that I have a tag in my pocket, I haven’t seen a lion since. I wish more people would buy tags. I get the impression most have no idea those tags are even available right now and continue to let lions live when they could otherwise be shooting them

 

[SS!]

I could have (should have looking back) shot several over the years. This was prior to the OTC spot and stalk tags. Now that I have a tag in my pocket, I haven’t seen a lion since. I wish more people would buy tags. I get the impression most have no idea those tags are even available right now and continue to let lions live when they could otherwise be shooting them

I hope you get one someday! And I’m glad you have the opportunity to do so.

 

[doz]

How many people could've shot a cougar in their life without dogs? I feel like the DWR could give a free cougar tag with every hunting license and unless the houndsmen wanted to donate their time and take hunters out, it wouldn't put a dent into lion populations.

It just seems that's such a specialized form of hunting that few of us can effectively participate in.

Am I wrong?

You can get a mountain lion tag when applying here in Nevada (no draw, just buy it, doesn't cost much maybe $10?). I've never actually seen one while up hunting/scouting/fishing. I've met guys who killed them, but they all had dogs.

 

[deadibob]

How many people could've shot a cougar in their life without dogs? I feel like the DWR could give a free cougar tag with every hunting license and unless the houndsmen wanted to donate their time and take hunters out, it wouldn't put a dent into lion populations.

It just seems that's such a specialized form of hunting that few of us can effectively participate in.

Am I wrong?

After recently talking to a couple DWR guys it sounds like there is support within to the idea of trapping mountain lions. I can just imagine the kind of pushback there would be to getting that passed.

Like the original poster said there are many issues facing the deer population, there is no one answer to the problem but if we address all of them we can probably turn things around. As far as losing habitat/land there is not much we can do other than close the gate to California If we could get rid of the cheatgrass that would be a big help. There are still areas here that look like moonscape because it burned so hot multiple times. I think some of the ground became sterile and it will be a while before anything grows there.

 

[slamdunk]

After recently talking to a couple DWR guys it sounds like there is support within to the idea of trapping mountain lions. I can just imagine the kind of pushback there would be to getting that passed.

Like the original poster said there are many issues facing the deer population, there is no one answer to the problem but if we address all of them we can probably turn things around. As far as losing habitat/land there is not much we can do other than close the gate to California If we could get rid of the cheatgrass that would be a big help. There are still areas here that look like moonscape because it burned so hot multiple times. I think some of the ground became sterile and it will be a while before anything grows there.

Cheatgrass is of the Devil......bad stuff for burn scars recovery.

 

[SS!]

Mule deer are snowflakes. Let the elk take over. It’s time to stop holding their hooves. Either adapt or die mule deer. Adapt or die.

 

[Vanilla]

How many people could've shot a cougar in their life without dogs? I feel like the DWR could give a free cougar tag with every hunting license and unless the houndsmen wanted to donate their time and take hunters out, it wouldn't put a dent into lion populations.

It just seems that's such a specialized form of hunting that few of us can effectively participate in.

Am I wrong?

I have never seen a single lion in the field in Utah. I've spent a substantial amount of time fishing, hunting, hiking, camping, backpacking, etc over the last few decades in Utah mountains.

I've seen lots of sign of lions, but I've never actually seen a lion alive in the wild while out doing what I do. I could have put a tag in my pocket every year for the last 25 years and have pulled the trigger exactly 0 times. So I do not think you are wrong.

 

[257Tony]

We are killing less than half the number of Bucks that we did in the 80's and early 90's, but, our state population has doubled since 1990. Habitat loss has to be one of the major factors, if not the #1.

 

[jims]

Here you go!

Cheating the Sage — Partners in the Sage

Cheatgrass and other invasive grasses loom as a major threat to mule deer sagebrush habitat. Now is the time for hunters and land managers to act!

www.partnersinthesage.com

 

[slamdunk]

Here you go!

Cheating the Sage — Partners in the Sage

Cheatgrass and other invasive grasses loom as a major threat to mule deer sagebrush habitat. Now is the time for hunters and land managers to act!

www.partnersinthesage.com

Be careful posting MDF stuff, those are Expo dollars at work ?

 

[grizzly]

Be careful posting MDF stuff, those are Expo dollars at work ?

At least we know where SOME of the money is going ?

 

[Vanilla]

Be careful posting MDF stuff, those are Expo dollars at work ?

I think the vast majority of the people have no issue with MDF. Funny what happens when people are just honest, huh?

 

[slamdunk]

I think the vast majority of the people have no issue with MDF. Funny what happens when people are just honest, huh?

Exactly why I am so loyal to this organization ?

 

[jims]

Believe me, anyone concerned with the decrease in mule deer in their area that has cheatgrass needs to take to heart what is mentioned in that article.

I'm out working in the field in cheatgrass infested areas just about every day at work and the positive impacts we are making where we control cheatgrass is striking! We hope to publish this data in the near future. The word is slowly but sure getting out as more and more land managers are seeing the impressive results! Currently Wyoming is taking great strides in recovering mule deer habitat infested with cheatgrass, medusahead, and ventenada. The true winners in all of this "on the ground work" is the mule deer and other wildlife!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

SLAM.
Do you guys have any projects going on out here in the basin?

I know me and my son would Love to come help.

 

[deadibob]

We are killing less than half the number of Bucks that we did in the 80's and early 90's, but, our state population has doubled since 1990. Habitat loss has to be one of the major factors, if not the #1.

There are probably half a dozen different major factors affecting mule deer, habitat being one of them but I believe quality of habitat (feed) is greater than loss of habitat. There are many areas in the state that have plenty of habitat but still have low deer populations. Let's just hope the state never gains control of public land in Utah if we want to keep access to it. It wouldn't take long for us to be like Texas and everything is sold and fenced off.

 

[jims]

Here are a couple examples of great mule deer habitat but in horrible condition. The mountain mahogany hardly has any current year's leader growth. Unfortunately cheatgrass is pretty much sucking the moisture and life out of the mtn mahogany and remnant native forbs in this area. You can only imagine what would happen if an intense wildfire fueled by dense cheatgrass ran through this area.

 

[jims]

The photos above and below are of a property we sprayed about a month ago to control cheatgrass. I hope to have some incredible after photos to share this coming summer! The pilot sprayed over 1,100 acres in a couple days. It's pretty exciting to watch!

 

[jims]

Here is the ground rig we use to spray some of the easier terrain. If you notice the boom can be raised well above the mtn mahogany, bitterbrush, and rabbitbrush. There is plenty of clearance to drive and spray over the tops of brush. We can generally spray around 40 to 50 acres in a day.

We have a couple gators but they don't have clearance for spraying over tall brush and also get hung up on rocks. The ground rig is nice because we spray at around 30 gallons of water/acre which penetrates down through the dense brush and cheatgrass thatch. The helicopter only sprays around 5 gallons of water/acre but can obviously cover lots of rough ground.

If anyone needs any spraying tips please send me a pm. I have lots of experience!

 

[Vanilla]

jims, why have not more people bought into this spraying work? It seems you’ve seen great success. What are the downsides or concerns?

 

[jims]

The only downside I know of is the cost/acre. It isn't cheap. Believe me, the long-term benefits are well worth every penny. I've been working on invasive weed control for the past 35+ years and this is by far is the most exciting thing I have ever worked on.

One of the biggest reasons it's taken a while for land managers to catch on is because there was no grazing label until last year. Wyoming actually was fortunate to get an earlier grazing ok because of their ventenata and medusahead problem in the Sheridan area. Rejuvra has been available to use on open space properties where there was no grazing for around 5 years.

Now that Rejuvra has a grazing label, ranchers are finding out that perennial grass dramatically increases with cheatgrass control and has a lot higher nutritional value. We average around 200 lbs/acre of perennial grass in cheatgrass infested areas and around 700 to 1,200 lbs/acre on native rangeland where cheatgrass is controlled here on the Front Range in Colorado.

Cheatgrass seed viability in the soil is 2 to 5 years max. What's exciting is we are getting excellent cheatgrass control for 4 to 5+ years.

Wyoming has been spraying thousands of acres of cheatgrass, medusahead, and ventenata the past few years. I'll do a web search and include a few examples of the large areas they are spraying. I can guarantee the success stories continue to spread each year in Wyoming. Hopefully Utah catches on quickly!

 

[mtnrunner260]

Jim's,
Do you work for Bayer? Can you get us a deal?
What would cost of herbicide be for 100 acres? Can you seed into sprayed areas and what would be good?

 

[jims]

Here's a little background on myself. I know there are a lot of web critics out there....sometimes for good reason to keep everyone on their toes!

I worked 28 years at CSU conducting invasive weed research. I was actually the first guy to conduct range research with indaziflam on cheatgrass in the US around 10 or 11 years ago....time flies! I have a long, long history of battling cheatgrass! There were a lot of complaints in Colorado about ineffective long-term control cheatgrass with Plateau. I spent a lot of time searching for other solutions until I tried indaziflam/Esplanade/Rejuvra.

I now work for the county putting to practical use many of the things I learned through the years at CSU. We are still collaborating with CSU, U of Wyo, and other universities/groups across the country on many of our cheatgrass projects. I've been blessed with my current job to have the flexibility to continue researching the impacts of cheatgrass on native forbs, shrubs, and grass. There are a lot of sensitive native and rare plants in our diverse area!

It has been exciting working with our ecologists, wildlife, and forestry groups on the impacts cheatgrass has on pollinators, big game, birds, small mammals, trees, etc. All of these are all tied together in the ecological web! I go to work each day loving my job and learning new things that have positive impacts on our properties and wildlife! It's always exciting to hear about other success stories across the country where others actually get out in the field and get great things accomplished!

 

[jims]

To answer a couple questions. The total cost obviously depends upon whether you aerial or ground apply. Also whether you spray or hire it done. Obviously aerial applications are a lot more $. You can cut your costs in about 1/2 by ground applications. I'm pretty sure it's around $40 to $50/acre for us to do ground applications. There are grant and cost-share programs available. It's also possible to get a discount using Rangeview or other programs that Bayer offers. I'm pretty sure Rangeview has a 3 or 4 year guarantee that goes with it. I don't know all the specifics? The long-term results are definitely worth the investment.

Obviously, it is super important to have good equipment and spray correctly. Cheatgrass will re-invade from any skips that are missed. I actually use the old fashion foam marker on my ground rig so I overlap correctly. A gps just doesn't cut it on rough, uneven terrain.

In regard to seeding. I wait until the 2nd growing season after Rejuvra application to drill or broadcast seed. There are ways around this that also work. If you are in a hurry it's possible to drill directly into cheatgrass in the fall, winter, or super early (around now) in the spring. Spray glyphosate (Roundup) as late as you can in the spring after the last cheatgrass flush and prior to green up. Once the species you drill establishes, Rejuvra can be sprayed. You are at the mercy of mother nature. If you establish shrubs from plugs it will immediately be safe to spray Rejuvra over the top of them. Indaziflam was first labeled in orchards and vineyards. We actually spray right over the top of ponderosas, junipers, etc. Rejuvra is safe spraying on perennial species.

I would talk to your local seed distributors and field reps to figure out strategies for what particular species to seed on your particular piece of ground. This changes dramatically from one spot to the next. Obviously some species are a lot easier to establish than others. Some are adapted better to your particular soils, aspect, etc. Also, some may be more palatable and beneficial to mule deer and wildlife.

I actually spend time each year with a bucket collecting native seed as I'm wondering through our properties that were sprayed with Rejuvra. There is a lot more seed available on plants where we sprayed cheatgrass! I've had luck broadcast spreading seed into areas that were infested with extremely dense cheatgrass that have few remnant natives. I usually wait until at least 1 year after I spray to spread the seed. Obviously this is done on small areas but tells you it's possible to establish natives from broadcast seeding. Drill seeding is a lot more productive. You usually need to double seeding rates when broadcast seeding.

You would be shocked at what lies under all that cheatgrass! Some native seed has super long life in the soil and is just waiting for the right conditions. Once the moisture is made available they thrive! I've been doing this for so many years and I can pretty much tell by walking an area what it's going to look like after spraying. Obviously some areas may need more work than others.

I know for a fact that spraying cheatgrass is like food plots to deer and other wildlife! If you spray and there are decent remnant desirable species that increase.....they will come! I have game cams set up all over our sprayed and unsprayed sites. Guess where they spend 90% of their time?

If anyone is on the Front Range in Colorado and wants to look over cheatgrass controlled sites...I would be glad to set up a tour. We've sprayed around 4,000 acres so far. I can guarantee you will be impressed. It is amazing to see the contrasting differences and all the wild flowers in the spring and summer!

Let me know if you have any other questions. Sorry I'm so long winded but get pretty excited when I start talking about this!

 

[Blank]

I really have to hand it to everyone trying to get a handle on this problem. Many of my friends are experienced range cons with the BLM, and they have been seeing and fighting it for 50 years or more. I can remember in the late 70's and early 80's it was a problem even then, and know of several winter range areas that were test sites for chemical treatment testing. The Big and Little Grassy areas, north and west of Rexburg and the St Anthony sand dunes were treated extensively. I can remember huge herds of deer and elk on the sagebrush flats back then, before cheatgrass took over everything. Here's some more info on the issue now.

Tackling Idaho's Cheatgrass Challenge - Natural Resources ...https://www.nrcs.usda.gov › wps › download

 

[Vanilla]

Cost is a big problem. But seems like the millions of dollars generated from hunting expos and banquets could help put a dent in those costs. I just wonder why I never even hear this discussed here in Utah?


4,000 acres isn’t going to fix the deer herd. But 100,000 acres on each unit might help. That is only going to cost about $130 million. (Maybe I’m learning on the fly why it isn’t discussed in Utah?)

 

[jims]

I wish I could put 4 thumbs up on Blank's post! That's great info! It's exciting to see Idaho is well aware of cheatgrass, ventenata, and medusahead negative impacts.... and have working hands on the ground!

 

[jims]

Here is an article about a great collaborative cheatgrass control project that is going on in Sublette County, Wyoming.

https://sublettecountyweed.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/1_JulieKraftSCWP_WhatHaveWeDoneToCombatThisWeed_IntroductionCurrentActivities.pdf

 

[jims]

Here's another interesting cheatgrass article in reference to the Mullein Wildfire that recently burned over 176,000 acres in Wyoming. Another article I read said that they actually sprayed over 10,000 acres of cheatgrass in the Mullein fire area so far and will likely spray over 17,000 acres over multiple years.

Medicine Bow-Routt National Forests & Thunder Basin National Grassland - News & Events

Medicine Bow-Routt National Forests & Thunder Basin National Grassland - News & Events

www.fs.usda.gov

 

[deadibob]

Here is the ground rig we use to spray some of the easier terrain. If you notice the boom can be raised well above the mtn mahogany, bitterbrush, and rabbitbrush. There is plenty of clearance to drive and spray over the tops of brush. We can generally spray around 40 to 50 acres in a day.

We have a couple gators but they don't have clearance for spraying over tall brush and also get hung up on rocks. The ground rig is nice because we spray at around 30 gallons of water/acre which penetrates down through the dense brush and cheatgrass thatch. The helicopter only sprays around 5 gallons of water/acre but can obviously cover lots of rough ground.

If anyone needs any spraying tips please send me a pm. I have lots of experience!
View attachment 68579

I'll tell you who needs some damn spraying tips, the Governor of Utah and management of the BLM and Forest Service. This entire state needs to be sprayed and until cheatgrass can (if ever) be eliminated or seriously reduced we are going to have huge wildfire and wildlife problems every year into infinity. It's time they bite the bullet and get in front of this problem because it won't go away on its own.

Sooner or later it will have to be addressed and the longer it is put off the more damage it will cause.

 

[2lumpy]

Cost is a big problem. But seems like the millions of dollars generated from hunting expos and banquets could help put a dent in those costs. I just wonder why I never even hear this discussed here in Utah?


4,000 acres isn’t going to fix the deer herd. But 100,000 acres on each unit might help. That is only going to cost about $130 million. (Maybe I’m learning on the fly why it isn’t discussed in Utah?)

In all seriousness, whether it’s dirt cheap or crazy expensive, can you think of a single thing Utah’s DNR or the DWR has done on their own initiative, without having had it forced up there back side, by the sportsmen, landowners, Wildlife Board or the Legislature?

It will never happen until someone outside the bureaucracy literally forces them, via policy or by law, to do it.

Trust me, Utah knows what Colorado has done with it.

Crickets!!!!

 

[Blank]

One of the big driving forces right now is the loss of critical sagebrush steppe lands for greater sage grouse habitat. That is getting a lot of attention at many levels, and the use of the ESA is controlling a lot of the pressure. The INEEL area (DOE) here where I worked is approx 900 sq miles, and was acknowledged as the largest single sagebrush steppe area in the Intermountain West. The 2010 Jefferson Fire ruined almost 110, 000 acres of that, and the threat of cheat grass establishment was enough for them to try more arial spraying. As one of the Emergency Action Managers for the Site, I acknowledged a lot of low level flying around facilities. I know costs are crazy high because the Bayer Rejuvra doesn't take to spraying by crop dusters well. We use them everywhere here on crops like potatoes and wheat, and they work well, for applications at around 100 feet elevation. They want heavy coatings (30 gallons per acre) applied at less than 20 feet, so you're talking helos or tractors and booms for eradication controls.

 

[2lumpy]

One of the big driving forces right now is the loss of critical sagebrush steppe lands for greater sage grouse habitat. That is getting a lot of attention at many levels, and the use of the ESA is controlling a lot of the pressure. The INEEL area (DOE) here where I worked is approx 900 sq miles, and was acknowledged as the largest single sagebrush steppe area in the Intermountain West. The 2010 Jefferson Fire ruined almost 110, 000 acres of that, and the threat of cheat grass establishment was enough for them to try more arial spraying. As one of the Emergency Action Managers for the Site, I acknowledged a lot of low level flying around facilities. I know costs are crazy high because the Bayer Rejuvra doesn't take to spraying by crop dusters well. We use them everywhere here on crops like potatoes and wheat, and they work well, for applications at around 100 feet elevation. They want heavy coatings (30 gallons per acre) applied at less than 20 feet, so you're talking helos or tractors and booms for eradication controls.

Have you seen the regrowth of significant browse species since the retreatments Blank. Almost all of our range fire retreatment or sage/juniper clearing, has been grasses rather than browse.

 

[Blank]

As I have proven to the wife on numerous occasions, I have a BLACK thumb. I can fix, run, or drive anything mechanical but me touching a green living plant is instant death. She doesn't let me anywhere near the garden. I'm sure it would be the same trying to re-seed a fire area! I think the killer in many areas is the topography, and if the seeds get washed away before gaining hold. Most seeds need to be drilled and covered to grow. California is a classic example of mudslides after fires, then torrential rains-seeding doesn't work. The aerial seeding after fires works in sagebrush areas because it typically is flat or rolling. Seeds for replants are incredibly expensive, because no one grows them and the quantities are limited. Jims would know much better than me. I wish you could just fly over the area and dump them out on the ground!!!

In 2016, we had a devastating wildfire east of IDAHO FALLS which burned about 60,000 acres of foothills and winter range. Unfortunately, almost 18,000 acres of the area impacted was the Tex Creek WMA. It happened in Aug, so there was nothing that could be done that year, and we were extremely worried about the game. Luckily, we had a mild winter with lots of moisture and things started recovering on their own pretty well. They seeded bitter brush as much as possible the next year, had an amazing turnout of volunteers to plant seedlings in areas to steep to drive on, and we ended up with another couple good years of water and weather. The recovery of the whole area is probably a 7 out of 10, and our 7000-9000 deer and elk here in SE Idaho have done well.

 

[2lumpy]

As I have proven to the wife on numerous occasions, I have a BLACK thumb. I can fix, run, or drive anything mechanical but me touching a green living plant is instant death. She doesn't let me anywhere near the garden. I'm sure it would be the same trying to re-seed a fire area! I think the killer in many areas is the topography, and if the seeds get washed away before gaining hold. Most seeds need to be drilled and covered to grow. California is a classic example of mudslides after fires, then torrential rains-seeding doesn't work. The aerial seeding after fires works in sagebrush areas because it typically is flat or rolling. Seeds for replants are incredibly expensive, because no one grows them and the quantities are limited. Jims would know much better than me. I wish you could just fly over the area and dump them out on the ground!!!

In 2016, we had a devastating wildfire east of IDAHO FALLS which burned about 60,000 acres of foothills and winter range. Unfortunately, almost 18,000 acres of the area impacted was the Tex Creek WMA. It happened in Aug, so there was nothing that could be done that year, and we were extremely worried about the game. Luckily, we had a mild winter with lots of moisture and things started recovering on their own pretty well. They seeded bitter brush as much as possible the next year, had an amazing turnout of volunteers to plant seedlings in areas to steep to drive on, and we ended up with another couple good years of water and weather. The recovery of the whole area is probably a 7 out of 10, and our 7000-9000 deer and elk here in SE Idaho have done well.

All true Blank, I wish I knew of a similar example I could say I’ve seen in Utah in the last 45 years. I’ve seen hundreds of thousand of successful reseeds of grass species, very very few browse/bitter brush successful reseeds.

Cattle is king on our range.

 

[Blank]

All to true. The BLM pushes back pretty good and our deserts do pretty good Maybe because they make the ranchers do the water. It seems the USFS just rolls over without any resistance at all and they over graze the forests something terrible. As long as you only charge a couple bucks per AUM, they'll put as many on there as possible!!

 

[roadrunner]

BLM and USFS are managed by two different agencies/bureaucracies.

 

[2lumpy]

We must be the last three idiots still up at this hour.???

 

[Blank]

Recorded Golf, and caffeine. Playing with a rifle I got back today!!

 

[elkassassin]

You Guys WUSSED Out!

It's Still Early!

 

[Bluehair]

Jims,

I have a serious question about cheatgrass - and russian olives for that matter - concerning their nutritional value to wildlife. I am not trying to be a smartass.

I hate cheatgrass because of how it burns and it gets in my socks. And I hate russian olives because of those thorns and they stink when they burn. And they’re russian.

But anyway, this time of year, the deer go nuts for the emerging cheatgrass. They don’t look malnourished, but they act just like when the apple trees come in. They are here almost every single morning eating it in my yard. LOTS of them.

Same story with the olive trees; they appear to be a popular source of food.

I guess I’m very lucky that I don’t see the large-scale range destruction caused by cheatgrass, but just see it as another source of food for the wildlife. This topic honestly drives me nuts because I don’t see what everyone else does

 

[jims]

Bluehair, you are absolutely correct that mule deer browse on cheatgrass in the winter. Here is a pretty good over-view of mule deer digestion and nutrition.

Mule deer are ruminant animals. Mule deer are primarily browsers. Although they will eat forbs and grasses, especially nitrogen-rich newgrowth, they rely on shrubs and trees for much of their diets.

Ruminant animals have evolved with complex, multi-chambered stomachs to consume and make optimal use of vegetative diets. Their first chamber is the rumen where microbial bacteria break down cellulose following physical mastication (chewing) in the mouth. Microbes (bacteria, protozoans, and fungi) produce volatile fatty acids, which are the major source of energy for ruminants. Ruminants must reduce particle size of consumed forage to smaller than 5 mm in size before it can pass from the rumen into the digestive tract and remaining chambers.

Old, decadent forage can be harder to digest due to high lignin content in cell walls, which also makes nutrients less accessible. Although ruminants use microbes to digest cellulose, lignin must be broken down through physical mastication.

Consequently, as forage quality decreases, passage rate decreases as well. Very fibrous, lignified forage is not digested, but excreted over a long period of time. In poor rangeland, there may appear to be a great deal of dry forage on the landscape, but mule deer may benefit little from eating this forage because they cannot consume adequate quantities to meet their needs for energy, protein, or other nutrients.

Ruminant animals can have difficulties adapting to rapid changes in their diet. The rumen microbial community must change with season, intake, and diet as specific types of microbes are associated with different kinds of forage. Rapid changes in diet during a wet spring or following a wildfire can result in short-term gastrointestinal disturbances. More frequently these rapid changes are human induced, such as translocation into new habitat or placement of novel food sources like alfalfa or grain.

Grains placed as bait for hunting or trapping may result in over consumption and death from grain toxicity. Historically, well-intentioned emergency winter feeding of high-quality alfalfa to nutritionally stressed ungulates in deep snow resulted in large numbers dying with full rumens that they were incapable of digesting. Ruminants may starve (or suffer from chronic malnutrition) with a rumen full of food-just food that was not possible to be digested adequately. Microbial communities typically require 2- 4 weeks to adapt to changes in diets, and gradual dietary alterations over similar time periods are more favorable than are immediate or rapid changes in their diet.

Energy demands for adult females increase dramatically with lactation following the birth of fawns. High quality nutrition is important for fawn growth, maturation rate, and the ability to avoid predators. Summer ranges generally provide higher quality nutrition than do winter ranges and the influence on lactation and fawn survival is greater. Large antler size in male mule deer is related to older population age structure and genetic potential, but the nutritional content of the diet has a substantial influence on annual antler growth.

Just as with fawn survival, nutrition plays an important role in adult survival. Animals on a high nutritional plane are generally more physically fit and better able to evade predation. Low-quality diets may predispose mule deer to injury, illness, increased overwinter mortality, or infirmities that may predispose them to predation. Mule deer on a consistently high nutritional plane can survive and reproduce longer than those consuming inadequate forage.

Due to lower quality and quantity of forage on winter ranges and increased energetic demands during winter months with snow and cold temperatures, mule deer often lose body mass throughout the winter. Consequently, the condition in which they enter this period can have an overriding influence on their ability to survive winter demands.

Optimal spring habitat should include a mix of early, mid, and late succession vegetation communities to provide a wide variety of high quality forage, cover, and parturition habitat. These communities should be identified and prioritized as important habitats for mule deer when developing vegetation management strategies. Invasive species including cheatgrass
need to be actively and aggressively controlled to prevent shortened fire intervals and competition with important browse
and understory species.

 

[SS!]

Bluehair, you are absolutely correct that mule deer browse on cheatgrass in the winter. Here is a pretty good over-view of mule deer digestion and nutrition.

Mule deer are ruminant animals. Mule deer are primarily browsers. Although they will eat forbs and grasses, especially nitrogen-rich newgrowth, they rely on shrubs and trees for much of their diets.

Ruminant animals have evolved with complex, multi-chambered stomachs to consume and make optimal use of vegetative diets. Their first chamber is the rumen where microbial bacteria break down cellulose following physical mastication (chewing) in the mouth. Microbes (bacteria, protozoans, and fungi) produce volatile fatty acids, which are the major source of energy for ruminants. Ruminants must reduce particle size of consumed forage to smaller than 5 mm in size before it can pass from the rumen into the digestive tract and remaining chambers.

Old, decadent forage can be harder to digest due to high lignin content in cell walls, which also makes nutrients less accessible. Although ruminants use microbes to digest cellulose, lignin must be broken down through physical mastication.

Consequently, as forage quality decreases, passage rate decreases as well. Very fibrous, lignified forage is not digested, but excreted over a long period of time. In poor rangeland, there may appear to be a great deal of dry forage on the landscape, but mule deer may benefit little from eating this forage because they cannot consume adequate quantities to meet their needs for energy, protein, or other nutrients.

Ruminant animals can have difficulties adapting to rapid changes in their diet. The rumen microbial community must change with season, intake, and diet as specific types of microbes are associated with different kinds of forage. Rapid changes in diet during a wet spring or following a wildfire can result in short-term gastrointestinal disturbances. More frequently these rapid changes are human induced, such as translocation into new habitat or placement of novel food sources like alfalfa or grain.

Grains placed as bait for hunting or trapping may result in over consumption and death from grain toxicity. Historically, well-intentioned emergency winter feeding of high-quality alfalfa to nutritionally stressed ungulates in deep snow resulted in large numbers dying with full rumens that they were incapable of digesting. Ruminants may starve (or suffer from chronic malnutrition) with a rumen full of food-just food that was not possible to be digested adequately. Microbial communities typically require 2- 4 weeks to adapt to changes in diets, and gradual dietary alterations over similar time periods are more favorable than are immediate or rapid changes in their diet.

Energy demands for adult females increase dramatically with lactation following the birth of fawns. High quality nutrition is important for fawn growth, maturation rate, and the ability to avoid predators. Summer ranges generally provide higher quality nutrition than do winter ranges and the influence on lactation and fawn survival is greater. Large antler size in male mule deer is related to older population age structure and genetic potential, but the nutritional content of the diet has a substantial influence on annual antler growth.

Just as with fawn survival, nutrition plays an important role in adult survival. Animals on a high nutritional plane are generally more physically fit and better able to evade predation. Low-quality diets may predispose mule deer to injury, illness, increased overwinter mortality, or infirmities that may predispose them to predation. Mule deer on a consistently high nutritional plane can survive and reproduce longer than those consuming inadequate forage.

Due to lower quality and quantity of forage on winter ranges and increased energetic demands during winter months with snow and cold temperatures, mule deer often lose body mass throughout the winter. Consequently, the condition in which they enter this period can have an overriding influence on their ability to survive winter demands.

Optimal spring habitat should include a mix of early, mid, and late succession vegetation communities to provide a wide variety of high quality forage, cover, and parturition habitat. These communities should be identified and prioritized as important habitats for mule deer when developing vegetation management strategies. Invasive species including cheatgrass
need to be actively and aggressively controlled to prevent shortened fire intervals and competition with important browse
and understory species.

View attachment 68744

Why do they don’t they use a pic of cheatgrass in summer?? Wouldn’t fit their narrative…

 

[jims]

I set up paired game cameras on 3 sites. One camera in on the side infested with dense cheatgrass and a 2nd camera on the immediately adjacent side where we controlled cheatgrass.

There was a high diversity of forbs, shrubs, and perennial grass present where the cheatgrass was controlled 2 years prior. The check sides are more or less a monoculture of cheatgrass with low diversity of natives and shrubs in stressed/poor condition. There was approximately a 7x increase in annual leader growth biomass on antelope bitterbrush and mtn mahogany where cheatgrass was controlled. The table below shows the 2021-2021 monthly summary for mule deer preference from game camera photos. Most of the deer photos in the checks are deer walking by the camera to get to the side where cheatgrass was controlled! The cameras are only around 50 to 100 yards apart!

Mule deer may browse on cheatgrass "if" it emerges in the winter but they prefer a variety of high quality browse and forage!

Here are some of the negative impacts cheatgrass has on shrub communities. In super dry fall/winters like this year the cheatgrass hasn't even come up yet. In years with lots of snow the deer have a tough time browsing on cheatgrass under snow. The quality of shrubs decreases with age. Cheatgrass is a fierce competitor with shrubs and in particular seedling shrubs. In cheatgrass infested areas there is a poor age class diversity of shrubs. Seedling shrubs can't compete with cheatgrass so there generally are old, decadent stands of shrubs in poor condition. High intensity wildfires fueled by fine-fueled cheatgrass is destructive to shrub communities.

 

[jims]

Since SS complained.....Top 2 photos were taken the same exact summer day in untreated adjacent area to where bottom pic was taken. The bottom photo shows close up of bitterbrush leader growth 5 months after cheatgrass was controlled! Do you see any difference in antelope leader growth where cheatgrass was controlled?

 

[Bigfoot 1]

I can't figure out how they could possibly know we're at an inflection point. It's not until that has passed that you can recognize it in the rearview mirror.

I think the number one issue is 'habitat' as the loss of habitat increases the likelihood of human conflict, consolidates herds making them more susceptible to predation and disease, and limits food supplies and survivability in both drought years and bad winters. Loss of habitat also makes deer more likely to lose in the annual competition with elk for prime fawning/calving grounds.

Valid points. I’m seeing deer in places where we never had deer before. Deer are starting to spread all over farm land in Eastern NM.

Where we’ve been hunting deer in our area of the Rocky Mountains for 50 years there are little deer left. I believe it is due to predators. Drought no doubt plays a huge role but we are seeing mountain lions in the day time and coyotes are all over the place.

 

[slamdunk]

Drought plays more to fawn recruitment and general health of deer far more than most realize.
Sure our highest peaks are above 90% snowpack, that's great for summer range habitat, but take a look at our lower, dry snowless winter range. It will be burned up by July and will have nothing beneficial in Dec, Jan and February when deer are in their worst physical condition.

 

[BillyBoB]

KSL is reporting that our deer herds dropped another 10% from December 2020 to December 2021 . . . but the good news is we have apparently hit an "inflection point" and are about to turn the corner. ? I will personally believe it when I see it.

https://www.ksl.com/article/5034678...t-inflection-point-after-another-drop-in-2021

I am not a wildlife biologist but the more that I have learned about the challenges facing our deer herds the more I have come to believe that there is no single factor that is negatively impacting our herds and no single change will improve the situation. Unfortunately, our deer herds face numerous challenges, including drought, loss of winter range, increased vehicle mortality, increased competition from elk, increased predator numbers, extended hunting pressure, improvements in hunting technology, CWD and other diseases, etc. Some of these factors can be controlled or influenced by the DWR but many cannot. Utah has dumped tens of millions of dollars on habitat improvement, fencing, wildlife crossings, and research projects over the last 20 years and yet our deer numbers continue to decline. Some will argue that the population declines would be even worse but for these efforts. That may be true. However, the reality is that no western state, including Utah, has found the answer to significantly helping our deer herds.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about whether we truly are at an inflection point where our deer herds will now begin to rebound? And whether the millions of dollars that we have pumped in conservation efforts are making any real difference with our deer herds?

Personally believe that the factors that are having the largest impact on our deer herds are (1) the extended drought; (2) increased number of predators; and (3) increased human population and vehicle mortality. Unfortunately, #1 is out of our control and we will have a tough time making any real headway on #2 and #3.

Hawkeye

Hawk,
Like others have stated, I just believe they are being optimistic due to new data that helps them make more proactive decisions and calling it “inflection.”
A couple years ago, a friend was hunting in Idaho for mule deer. He typically has done well regardless to where he hunts and focuses on the older age class deer. He quickly learned that he was the prey in 2020 while in Idaho and he was thankful that he was able to put his deer tag on a big Tom.
I wish Utah would offer an option like that as I have bumped into a cat before at 50-60 yards while hunting big game.
I’ve suggested the idea but I haven’t seen it gain any ground.

 

[cannonball]

A guzzler doesn't make poor habitat healthy, it's sole purpose is to offer a drink. Drought is killing us lately.
We can build a thousand guzzlers but animals will still starve.

And loss of winter range isn't hurting the whole state, it only impacts Urban areas like the Wasatch Front.
Units like Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, Panguitch, etc, etc have millions of acres of winter range still, yet deer numbers decline there just as badly if not worse.

I ran on to a biologist on Monroe Mountain two years ago who was looking over a re-seed that had just been done. I ask him how it looked and he told me that it didn't look bad. I then ask him if they had planted much for deer. I was surprise with his response. He told me that most of the vegetation was the grasses for elk and cattle. Maybe that winter range is for elk and cattle. Throw in lions and bear and that seems to be our Big Game Management for Utah.

 

[slamdunk]

I ran on to a biologist on Monroe Mountain two years ago who was looking over a re-seed that had just been done. I ask him how it looked and he told me that it didn't look bad. I then ask him if they had planted much for deer. I was surprise with his response. He told me that most of the vegetation was the grasses for elk and cattle. Maybe that winter range is for elk and cattle. Throw in lions and bear and that seems to be our Big Game Management for Utah.

Any idea what project it was they did?
Not discounting your comment or his assessment, but no organization plants feed for free range cattle.
Of course they will graze on whatever is there, but "free range grazing" isn't maintained by any wildlife conservation organization.
That I am aware of anyway.....

 

[slamdunk]

SLAM.
Do you guys have any projects going on out here in the basin?

I know me and my son would Love to come help.

Heidi Heckethorn is the Uintah Basin director, follow her on social media for projects.
I will be coming out there in April for that banquet, you should try to attend if possible, I'd love to meet you.
PM me if you'd like more information

 

[cannonball]

I'm sure he was talking about all of the grass that was coming up when I directed my talk to him about planting for deer and not seeing much sage and browse.

 

[copple2]

Hawk,
Like others have stated, I just believe they are being optimistic due to new data that helps them make more proactive decisions and calling it “inflection.”
A couple years ago, a friend was hunting in Idaho for mule deer. He typically has done well regardless to where he hunts and focuses on the older age class deer. He quickly learned that he was the prey in 2020 while in Idaho and he was thankful that he was able to put his deer tag on a big Tom.
I wish Utah would offer an option like that as I have bumped into a cat before at 50-60 yards while hunting big game.
I’ve suggested the idea but I haven’t seen it gain any ground.

Most of the state of Utah now has harvest objective cougar permits. If everyone put one our pocket, it wouldn't hurt!