Why overlap archery and rifle?

WannaB

WannaB

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Is there some kind of logic I’m missing with this? Why overlap the archery hunt and Youth Any Bull by 4 days? My son waited 5 years to finally draw and there were archery hunter everywhere cruising around. We worked our butts off but didn’t realize we had archery hunter in some key areas because they weren’t wearing orange (which I believe is technically illegal).
I archery hunted the same area several times this year and never saw anywhere near that many people…but it was the last weekend to archery hunt, so people came out of the woodworks. On what other hunt is there overlap…it just seems ludicrous. I’d rather them make the youth any bull a 5 day hunt than have archery guys all over the place.
Thoughts?
 
yoteduster said:
OPPORTUNITY... Wait for 8-10 years to draw a Wasatch muzzy elk tag then three or so days later they drop a muzzy deer hunt on ya...people everywhere what a sheeetz show
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I get that, but those are same weapons and rules/regulations. I would have loved to have had 3 days before everyone else showed up. Just shorten the hunts and eliminate the overlap of weapons.
 
I learned on my daughters early GS elk hunt that the elk were pretty much shut down until the archery hunt was over. Knowing what I do now I would have concentrated more on the latter part of the season (last 5 days). We still got it done but we burned a lot of boot leather early that would have been more efficient later in the week. As Niller stated; archers have it their way because they make the most noise, they have a lobby. The folks that draw the youth tag are surprised to get it and you can't plan it so really there is no lobby from youth rifle hunters. It would be interesting to see how the success rates (for both youth and open bull archery) play out pre archery change to post archery change.
 
Because archery is state wide, youth bull isn't?

Let's not forget, ain't the archery guys, the youth hunts are there because of the guilt the grey hairs have for f-ing the youth. They give them a small window, limited GS unit, then tell them they have "all these youth hunts", so quit crying about LE being once in a lifetime for them.

I mean a small number of them might get to hunt the North Slope in September, so that makes the old dogs with max points feel better about hunting the San Juan at the same time.

All about fairness?. And points great,......for the old
 
WannaB said:
Is there some kind of logic I’m missing with this? Why overlap the archery hunt and Youth Any Bull by 4 days? My son waited 5 years to finally draw and there were archery hunter everywhere cruising around. We worked our butts off but didn’t realize we had archery hunter in some key areas because they weren’t wearing orange (which I believe is technically illegal).
I archery hunted the same area several times this year and never saw anywhere near that many people…but it was the last weekend to archery hunt, so people came out of the woodworks. On what other hunt is there overlap…it just seems ludicrous. I’d rather them make the youth any bull a 5 day hunt than have archery guys all over the place.
Thoughts?
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They changed the law on wearing orange this year for archery during the youth tag.
 
Hahaha I've heard it all now! Archery has a lobby???? Please explain. The only crying I ever hear is when moving the rifle hunt out of the rut is brought up. Let's do what makes sense, take the LE rifle hunt out of the rut, give the archery guys the month of September, the youth 10/1-10/5, muzzy 10/6-10/14 and rifle 10/15-10/20.

Archery has a lobby haha get outta here!
 
WannaB said:
Is there some kind of logic I’m missing with this? Why overlap the archery hunt and Youth Any Bull by 4 days? My son waited 5 years to finally draw and there were archery hunter everywhere cruising around. We worked our butts off but didn’t realize we had archery hunter in some key areas because they weren’t wearing orange (which I believe is technically illegal).
I archery hunted the same area several times this year and never saw anywhere near that many people…but it was the last weekend to archery hunt, so people came out of the woodworks. On what other hunt is there overlap…it just seems ludicrous. I’d rather them make the youth any bull a 5 day hunt than have archery guys all over the place.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
You worked your butts off, but yet you managed to see Archery hunters "cruising around everywhere"??? You were working your butt off from your sxs?

Hunt the 21st-24th have it all to yourself. As an archery hunter you claim to be why come on here and whine?
 
@Bigwiffy Isn't the Utah Bowman's Association still a thing? Or Utah Archery Association? I think they have a website? Archery shoots are a thing and bowhunters get together often for shoots in the spring/summer.

Don't view me as anti Archery, I love shooting my bow, I shoot league all summer long. I don't bow hunt a lot but I love it all the same.

Even if those organizations above don't function anymore the fact remains that there are a lot of bowhunters in the state. Bowhunters go to RACs, they go the to the Wildlife Board Meetings. Organized or not, bowhunters advocate for bowhunts and have a voice in this process. That is my point regarding lobbying power, any advocate for bowhunting in the process is lobbying power, whether that be through an organization or just participation by individuals. I have never seen the same advocacy for the youth from the youth because...they are youth.

I am fine with the current season as is--only thing I could see adding is maybe bowhunters wear an orange hat during the overlap portion of the hunt but that's it and I'm not all gung ho on that either.

You don't have to default view other posters on MM as being your enemy on everything
 
If you don’t think the loud voice of archery hunters has impacted management decisions the last 5 years than you are not paying attention. (There are other options, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt before I just assume other things…)

Not saying it’s bad they are raising their voice, but the answer to the original question of why is their overlap in these hunts is very simple: archery hunters cried loud enough. That is lobbying power. You either get it or you don’t, whiff! No big deal either way.

But archery hunters have been able to sway things pretty well in their favor recently. They’ve been effective with policy makers.
 
I believe some good changes have taken place the last few years due to hard work, tact, and common sense coming from organizations like UBA which I'm a member of, also change of leadership has been pivitol as well. I do get passionate when the anti archery sediment surfaces. To Vanillas point some good changes have occurred in the last few years, but not without a fight. In the last 20 years a ton of archery opportunity has been lost and that is what I get salty about.
 
It Amazes Me that A Small Group Of Archers Can Get Sshhitt Done!

The Majority Of Rifle & Muzz Hunters PISS & MOAN But Never Get Serious Enough About It To Band Together & Get Something Done!

It'd Be Interesting To get A Committee Going To Ban Compound Bows!

I'd Place Money On It That It Wouldn't Pass!
 
Bigwiffy said:
You worked your butts off, but yet you managed to see Archery hunters "cruising around everywhere"??? You were working your butt off from your sxs?

Hunt the 21st-24th have it all to yourself. As an archery hunter you claim to be why come on here and whine?
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Maybe you are old or your optics suck, but I can see many miles from the top of the ridge we started hiking up at 5 in the am. I’d love to hunt the back half, but my son has three college classes and Homecoming, so that isn’t really an option.
I love archery hunting, but I also don’t want rifles being shot around me while I’m doing it. It’s a lose-lose for both sides…hence the question, why do it?
Nice assumptions though, your ignorance doesn’t make you look like a tool at all…
 
WannaB said:
Maybe you are old or your optics suck, but I can see many miles from the top of the ridge we started hiking up at 5 in the am. I’d love to hunt the back half, but my son has three college classes and Homecoming, so that isn’t really an option.
I love archery hunting, but I also don’t want rifles being shot around me while I’m doing it. It’s a lose-lose for both sides…hence the question, why do it?
Nice assumptions though, your ignorance doesn’t make you look like a tool at all…
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Fair enough, I don't love the overlap either, but it happens everywhere. Bear hunts are similar with the pursuit hunt overlapping the summer bait. CO has high country rifle hunts that overlap muzzy and archery hunts. WY opens rifle deer hunts on 9/15 right in the middle of the archery hunt. Not ideal. Hope you can get back out and good luck! I apologize for my assumptions.
 
I had a kid shoot a bull out from under me when I was archery hunting two years ago on the second to last day. He shot it from about 800 yards. It was a smaller bull. The youth hunt is still a general season hunt, not limited entry. Not only does it overlap with the archery season, but the WB also approved more youth permits. I drew it in 2004ish and only saw two small bulls. That hunt is overhyped, but I put my kids in for it because if the season dates. I usually share waypoints with kids I meet on the mountain once archery season closes to help them out. This year, I have yet to find any fresh elk sign on the any bull unit that I hunt. ?
 
WannaB said:
My son waited 5 years to finally draw and there were archery hunter everywhere cruising around.
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Both my boys drew that tag last year. My oldest son drew it after waiting 6 years. You do have the upper hand! You get to use a rifle both my sons killed there bulls right next to roads. My youngest sons shot his bull at 300 yards and died on a old logging road.

My oldest shot his at 80 yards and died right next to the atv trail. I also had the opportunity to help out another youth hunter and called that bull right to 30 yards. It also died right next to the main road. There is no excuse for a youth hunter to ever go home empty handed especially on a either sex tag. We ran into bow hunters every day but every bow hunter we ran into where willing to help out. last year there was a ton of bow hunters this year their wasn't as many.
If you know how to call then you will not have any issues getting him an elk. This week will be perfect for calling them in. Good luck and hunt hard.

Reminder: Hunter orange is not required during the youth general-season any bull archery hunt that overlaps with the draw-only youth any bull/hunter’s choice elk hunt. Youth are still required to wear hunter orange during their hunt.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Both my boys drew that tag last year. My oldest son drew it after waiting 6 years. You do have the upper hand! You get to use a rifle both my sons killed there bulls right next to roads. My youngest sons shot his bull at 300 yards and died on a old logging road.

My oldest shot his at 80 yards and died right next to the atv trail. I also had the opportunity to help out another youth hunter and called that bull right to 30 yards. It also died right next to the main road. There is no excuse for a youth hunter to ever go home empty handed especially on a either sex tag. We ran into bow hunters every day but every bow hunter we ran into where willing to help out. last year there was a ton of bow hunters this year their wasn't as many.
If you know how to call then you will not have any issues getting him an elk. This week will be perfect for calling them in. Good luck and hunt hard.

Reminder: Hunter orange is not required during the youth general-season any bull archery hunt that overlaps with the draw-only youth any bull/hunter’s choice elk hunt. Youth are still required to wear hunter orange during their hunt.
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Wow, you must be a superior hunter ?
I should have thought to just call them in, I didn’t know elk hunting was that easy! What do you use to call them in? Sarcasm intended…
 
WannaB said:
Wow, you must be a superior hunter ?
I should have thought to just call them in, I didn’t know elk hunting was that easy! What do you use to call them in? Sarcasm intended…
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Haha you asked for thoughts, but don't want anybody to disagree with you? You must make a good Mother in Law.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Haha you asked for thoughts, but don't want anybody to disagree with you? You must make a good Mother in Law.
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Maybe your Mother in Law is tired of you not answering the actual question, but talking about what you want to talk about instead? I wasn't looking for hunting advise...I was looking for a reason for the overlap. Several people have answered or gave opinions on the actual question, which I appreciate.
 
WannaB said:
Wow, you must be a superior hunter ?
I should have thought to just call them in, I didn’t know elk hunting was that easy! What do you use to call them in? Sarcasm intended…
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Hahaha superior nope. just really good at calling.
My call is the sarcasm call it’s great it works really well. You can get it at Walmart down the nonsense aisle. Because that’s what this post is nonsense.

Also this wasn’t an issue at all with you when you was archery hunting at all was it? You probably enjoyed having those few extra days the last 3 years.
Come on you knew it overlap. Now your kid has a tag and it’s a problem and you want answers. ? come on.
They get 6 days without archery hunters it ends the Tuesday before the muzzleloader deer hunt starts.
 
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Elkslayer2015 said:
Hahaha superior nope. just really good at calling.
My call is the sarcasm call it’s great it works really well. You can get it at Walmart down the nonsense aisle. Because that’s what this post is nonsense.

Also this wasn’t an issue at all with you when you was archery hunting at all was it? You probably enjoyed having those few extra days the last 3 years.
Come on you knew it overlap. Now your kid has a tag and it’s a problem and you want answers. ? come on.
They get 6 days without archery hunters it ends the Tuesday before the muzzleloader deer hunt starts.
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I hope your calling is better than your grammar…
Actually, I did notice it last year while hunting the North Slope with the bow and I didn’t like it then either. It is a lose-lose. Just shorten one or the other.
Again, the question was why the overlap? Or in other, more simple words, who wanted it? Several people endeavored to offer their options without proclaiming their hunting prowess…which I appreciate.
 
The simple answer is the archers are hunting during the youth hunt and not the other way around.

The archers lobbied for and got the additional days which overlapped the Youth hunt. The archers who lobbied for the change said they were willing to wear orange and would be happy to have any additional days afield. After the first year of the overlap, the complaints received by the UDWR were all archers complaining about rifle youth hunters in the "archery season". The UDWR also found that many archers were not wearing orange. So many in fact they recommended archers not needing to wear orange during the hunt because the UDWR couldn't enforce the Rule.

The past 2 years the UDWR received multiple concerns from youth hunters who have found camoed archers in the field of view of their scopes when trying to shoot a bull and many more complaints from youth hunters whose hunts were negatively impacted by archery pressure.
 
Packout said:
The simple answer is the archers are hunting during the youth hunt and not the other way around.

The archers lobbied for and got the additional days which overlapped the Youth hunt. The archers who lobbied for the change said they were willing to wear orange and would be happy to have any additional days afield. After the first year of the overlap, the complaints received by the UDWR were all archers complaining about rifle youth hunters in the "archery season". The UDWR also found that many archers were not wearing orange. So many in fact they recommended archers not needing to wear orange during the hunt because the UDWR couldn't enforce the Rule.

The past 2 years the UDWR received multiple concerns from youth hunters who have found camoed archers in the field of view of their scopes when trying to shoot a bull and many more complaints from youth hunters whose hunts were negatively impacted by archery pressure.
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Well said and spot on! The squeaky wheel is who typically receives the grease in Utah. And the archers who lobbied for the change were vocal in enough of the right places, with enough of the right people.
 
Packout said:
The simple answer is the archers are hunting during the youth hunt and not the other way around.

The archers lobbied for and got the additional days which overlapped the Youth hunt. The archers who lobbied for the change said they were willing to wear orange and would be happy to have any additional days afield. After the first year of the overlap, the complaints received by the UDWR were all archers complaining about rifle youth hunters in the "archery season". The UDWR also found that many archers were not wearing orange. So many in fact they recommended archers not needing to wear orange during the hunt because the UDWR couldn't enforce the Rule.

The past 2 years the UDWR received multiple concerns from youth hunters who have found camoed archers in the field of view of their scopes when trying to shoot a bull and many more complaints from youth hunters whose hunts were negatively impacted by archery pressure.
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How many days of opportunity do bow hunters have?
Regular plus extended??
 
I spent the last 7 days of the archery hunt in the Uintahs, this year and last year. This year I heard a total of 2 gun shots, both were a ways off. I heard a lot more shots last year.
Utah really needs to get ALL the rifle hunts out of September.
How do people draw the youth tag anyway? I have 2 boys who are over 18. They applied every year they could, no luck. I have 2 younger ones who have applied every year so far. No luck.
 
ktg said:
I spent the last 7 days of the archery hunt in the Uintahs, this year and last year. This year I heard a total of 2 gun shots, both were a ways off. I heard a lot more shots last year.
Utah really needs to get ALL the rifle hunts out of September.
How do people draw the youth tag anyway? I have 2 boys who are over 18. They applied every year they could, no luck. I have 2 younger ones who have applied every year so far. No luck.
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There needs to be more hunts for kids I have had several kids from my group draw it’s really fun to take them with out all the pressure of the general hunt
Not had a lot of success but great experience for kids
Kids not being able to draw GS tags really sucks and lessens recruitment for future hunters
 
The Youth Draw elk tag in Utah is a special opportunity hunt. Not a GS hunt. It was carved out to allow a select few (upped this year) to hunt the rut.

Youth have unlimited tags for GS elk in Utah. They also get 20% of deer tags guaranteed. And have unlimited archery tags.

I don't have a problem catering to youth for opportunity to hunt. I just don't understand why they should have their own special time at the expense of others.

But then I grew up in the days of not hunting at all until 14 and big game hunting at 16 and sharing the mountain with 220,000 other hunters.
 
middlefork said:
But then I grew up in the days of not hunting at all until 14 and big game hunting at 16 and sharing the mountain with 220,000 other hunters.
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I was telling my 15 year old just a week ago how when I was his age, you had to be 16 to hunt big game. He couldn't believe it. But then he's killed 3 elk, 1 deer, and an oryx.
 

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