Lets revisit the Kaibab National Monument issue!

DonMartin · Oct 14, 2012

Fellow Sportsmen:

Have you wondered why the proposed Kaibab National Monument issue has got strangely quiet after the initial blow up?

I have and I offer a few ideas.

I know the Arizona Game & Fish Commission weighed in on this by voting not to support the proposal.

But why did the issue go away almost as fast as it came to light.

Let me get on my soap box and throw out an idea or two.

IF President Obama had immediately embraced the idea of designating the North Kaibab as a national monument, what would have been the fallout in this very close upcoming election.

My thought would have been is that he would have lost hundreds of thousands of votes if he did that, and his advisors said to him, "Let this pass for now,it is politically too hot to get engaged in."

OK, so lets look at what happens. If President O'Bama is reelected, then he can make the designation with no fear of political backlash. He's out in 2016 anyway, and most will have completely forgotten about the flare up it caused (and it will!) when he made the designation.

OR if he looses, and he is lame duck, he can, just like President Clinton did, with a stroke of his pen, make the monument designation and walk away, as he will have nothing to loose.

So am I being just overly paranoid?

Is this what may happen down the road AFTER the election?

I think that those that created this proposal are way to smart not to know all of this.

I have been in meetings with these folks before and they are way to savvy not to realize that they can get what they want either way.

They just have to be patient.

Just wanted to get your ideas on this.

Loosing the Kaibab to a monument designation would ultimately be a huge loss for Arizona and other sportsmen. It is not broken so don't try and "fix" it like is being done on the Parashant!

The proposal was flawed and fraught with misinformation and there was no attempt to talk with others groups (like sportsmen) before they brought this forward in April.

They didn't seek bi-partisan support.

So what do you think?

There are several I would sure like to hear from on this, but I encourage all of you who see the Kaibab as I do to weigh in on this.

Don Martin

appleman · Oct 14, 2012

very interesting!

brian390 · Oct 14, 2012

I agree with you Don. Obama could do a lot of bad things if he is reelected.

DonMartin · Oct 14, 2012

He can do some very bad things even if he is NOT re-elected!

All it takes is a single stroke of a pen under the Antiquities Act and we'll have ourselves ANOTHER national monument in northern Arizona, north of the ditch!

Don

eldorado · Oct 14, 2012

I see nothing wrong with the FS and BLM continuing to manage the watershed. They make more sense.

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubsectionID=1&ArticleID=50373

http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/ar...ling-intensifies-over-grand-canyon-watershed/

azbuster · Oct 14, 2012

Wish I knew of a solution and he would be dangerous even as a lame duck president, maybe even more so. Friends of the Arizona strip are trying to fight this but I don't think they will get Obama's ears. A lot of ranchers would be hurt in this. When I talked to Gary Watson(county supervisor) about this he said the ranchers would not go without a fight. Just what we need as a country to force out ranchers that have worked the land by the management rules for generations for a monument that will not benefit the land one bit. I fear a confrontation between the ranchers and the government would be bad for all concerned maybe even a Ruby Ridge situation. The good news is he has not done it yet but time will tell. Hopefully he worries about something else to screw up and forgets about this.

sagebrush · Oct 17, 2012

Make sure everyone votes yes on Prop 120. Then we can keep things tied up in court until Obama is gone.

DonMartin · Oct 17, 2012

Good point! I voted today and matter of fact did vote for 120. Not sure it will stand up to Constitutional scrutiny, but why not give it a try

Don

Gwagen · Oct 18, 2012

Very perceptive Don. As you and most others well know, it was in the last days of the Clinton administration that he and Bruce Babbitt designated the Parashant, Ironwood, etc. national monuments in AZ.

Bruce

muleyskinwatcher · Nov 5, 2012

I wouldnt worry theres no way AZ could afford to lose the kaibab
sportsman across america would stand together on that one.

muleyskinwatcher · Nov 6, 2012

>He can do some very bad
>things even if he is
>NOT re-elected!
>
>All it takes is a single
>stroke of a pen under
>the Antiquities Act and we'll
>have ourselves ANOTHER national monument
>in northern Arizona, north of
>the ditch!
>
>Don
Hes going to do alot worse now that he is elected, I think we are in for a nightmare worse than the last 4 years,

sagebrush · Nov 8, 2012

Sportsmen across America will stand together and whine after its a done deal. We have no input on executive orders and congress does not approve them. The only chance we have is to have congress pass a bill excluding the Kaibab and Strip from ever being designated a national monument or wilderness. That will be an uphill battle against all the eco-wackjobs now that their god has been re-elected.

muleyskinwatcher · Nov 8, 2012

I would have to disagree with executive orders,Not directly,Your local senator or rep, If it we had no input We would have never
been able to delist wolves up north. It was because people
got together with there represenatives,there input changed the outcome. your right on the fact we should pass a bill before it becomes an issue,

m_freeman · Nov 9, 2012

you haven't seen enything yet, you will wake up when you go out to the AZ Strip to hunt and right in the middle of the Az strip is 500- 400' tall wind turbines, there will be a fence around the facility that says "no hunting" now these remote renewable generation facilities require a massive inrusive transmission line so not only will Obama give you 500 turbines on the strip he will give you a transmission line as well. And that is just the beginning they are planning solar panels all over BLM lands anywhere except roof tops. So bye bye BLM public hunting lands hello Greed Energy. So now do you believe there is a covert war on roof top solar?

m_freeman · Nov 9, 2012

>I wouldnt worry theres no way
>AZ could afford to lose
>the kaibab
>sportsman across america would stand together
>on that one.

I have news for you, they are planning useless Wind Turbines and a transmission line for the AZ Strip.

muleyskinwatcher · Nov 9, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-12 AT 04:12PM (MST)[p]>you haven't seen enything yet, you
>will wake up when you
>go out to the AZ
>Strip to hunt and right
>in the middle of the
>Az strip is 500- 400'
>tall wind turbines, there will
>be a fence around the
>facility that says "no hunting"
>now these remote renewable generation
>facilities require a massive inrusive
>transmission line so not only
>will Obama give you 500
>turbines on the strip he
>will give you a transmission
>line as well. And that
>is just the beginning they
>are planning solar panels all
>over BLM lands anywhere except
>roof tops. So bye bye
>BLM public hunting lands hello
>Greed Energy. So now do
>you believe there is a
>covert war on roof top
>solar?

Putting up wind mills goes against there own policies as a national monument, Looks like AZ Center for Biological Diversity and the wilderness society are the ones responsible for bringing this to Obamanations attention,So I would say this is not over.
The center for biological diversity are mostly anti hunters with liberal agendas,

m_freeman · Nov 9, 2012

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-12
>AT 04:12?PM (MST)
>
>>you haven't seen enything yet, you
>>will wake up when you
>>go out to the AZ
>>Strip to hunt and right
>>in the middle of the
>>Az strip is 500- 400'
>>tall wind turbines, there will
>>be a fence around the
>>facility that says "no hunting"
>>now these remote renewable generation
>>facilities require a massive inrusive
>>transmission line so not only
>>will Obama give you 500
>>turbines on the strip he
>>will give you a transmission
>>line as well. And that
>>is just the beginning they
>>are planning solar panels all
>>over BLM lands anywhere except
>>roof tops. So bye bye
>>BLM public hunting lands hello
>>Greed Energy. So now do
>>you believe there is a
>>covert war on roof top
>>solar?
>
> Putting up wind mills
>goes against there own policies
>as a national monument, Looks
>like AZ Center kfor Biological
>Diversity and the wilderness society
>are the ones responsible for
>bringing this to Obamanations attention,So
>I would say this is
>not over.
> The center for biological diversity
>are mostly anti hunters with
>liberal agendas,

Oh no they get both,monument in kiabab nf and turbines on the blm az strip. Yeah a double whammy

azbullhunter · Nov 29, 2012

Someone voted for 120. So the state can control federal lands in AZ. They can not even manage the rest areas and state parks which they closed. They took millions from the heritage fund. This week Az was rated the 47th worst state for managing their budgets. Thank God 120 failed although it would not ever gone into place due to supremacy clause.