It’s hard to argue SS!’s logic on this one. Whatever time and treasure has or hasn’t been spent mule deer conservation hasn’t proven to have been effective on any large scale level. Definitely not in comparison to elk and whitetail deer, or even antelope, that doesn’t even have a national conservation organization behind its ups and down in numbers.talk about a propaganda piece! Adolf would be proud. Especially the part where the guy says everyone needs to be the same and all head in the same direction.
If you don’t have 20 mins to watch here’s a summary:
Lots of video of bucks that live on land virtually closed to hunting, lots of talk of money, need more money aka members. Brief talk of them now helping blacktail deer (RIP blacktail) and NO mention of mule deer numbers. That would go against the narrative, MONEY.
Wonder how much “conservation” money was spent to make that video?
MDF, doesn’t matter how much money you raised or what you’ve done, the results speak for themself. It’s not working. Maybe reach out to the RMEF. Now there is an organization that gets stuff done.
Yep. Their argument could be “think how bad it would be without the MDF”. Or “ look the govt trusts us with this money”. Well BS. Just another example of wasteful govt spending.Just a video to receive more checks
Thanks Hossy, you're a good dude ?I love slam. Straight up, dude puts his effort where his mouth is.
But, and you knew it was coming, I hunt the same area I've hunted since is was 3.5 years.
The only real habitat change is from the ranchers plowing sage to grow hay.
Perhaps if your on a LE unit that sells 6 figure tags, there has been change, but honestly despite the 10's of millions $FW and MDF have taken in, there's zero noticable benefit in my area.
But slam busts his ass, where I don't, so he deserves nothing but love
I love slam. Straight up, dude puts his effort where his mouth is.
But, and you knew it was coming, I hunt the same area I've hunted since is was 3.5 years.
The only real habitat change is from the ranchers plowing sage to grow hay.
Perhaps if your on a LE unit that sells 6 figure tags, there has been change, but honestly despite the 10's of millions $FW and MDF have taken in, there's zero noticable benefit in my area.
But slam busts his ass, where I don't, so he deserves nothing but love
There it is! Well we’ve spent 35 years and no results so let’s do the cop out. Called it out in post 6 ?But then I ask "where would we be without it?" and my question is satisfied.
Not true at all. Stop with the scare tactics. There are plenty of other organizations doing the same thing.Do away with these dollars and watch every single guzzler across the west dry up and rot away in the sun.
Watch fencing projects along highways cease.
Watch crossings disappear and highway mortality rise even higher.
Watch the burn scars get overtaken with noxious weeds.
And watch ALL wildlife lose millions of acres of habitat and succumb to urban sprawl and dwindling winter range.
Like a true MDF kool aid drinker you have to bring up money. I’m pretty sure I could dig up a pic of you with bud light. I don’t care what people drink, it’s weird that you do. I don’t drink bud light but it has nothing to do with their drama. If it tasted good I would drink it, I don’t care what others think. I don’t follow the herd like you do.I am a Life Member of the MDF because I am part of where the money comes from and where it ends up.
We don't need SS's measly $35, he can spend it on more Bud Lights, but we will proudly continue the mission without him so he can reap the benefits regardless.
Go look online at salaries of the less than two handfuls of paid employees and get back to us with true facts, not vomit.Want to quit going to any of the banquets for any of the "conservation" groups. Just look at the salaries they are getting paid. I really quit paying into the MDF when I saw a hunting show where I can't remember if it was the president of the mdf or just another high up came from back east and was on his 1st ever mule deer hunt. Maybe I'm weird but that bugged me haha.
You can't argue with success. Laugh at it all you want but look at the elk population in this country. Look at the success of getting elk back in the east. Key land purchases. The list goes on. Elk are flourishing. Even with the big bad wolves being brought in. Your Audobon society example is weak at best. The MDF is trying to conserve one species....very poorly.OK, so the RMEF is a success and the MDF is a failure- because of the herd numbers today? Laughable. I suppose the Audobon society is a complete and utter failure too since 50 bird species went extinct on their watch. Clearly, totally worthless. But wait- eagles have made an extraordinary comeback in the last 50 years! Total success!
Mule Deer are "failing" because of so many factors which are understood and not understood that no one group is gonna change the overall direction- except the policies of the state wildlife agencies which prioritize elk over deer. Now I suppose you could lay some blame on the MDF for not pressuring those agencies to lay off the lucrative elk hunting focus- good luck with that.
Now I'll hunker down for the critical onslaught
I don't think the salary of the CEO etc is outrageous or out of line. Here's a link showing a lot of the financials. Definitely not as bad as other hunting conservation organizations:Go look online at salaries of the less than two handfuls of paid employees and get back to us with true facts, not vomit.
86 cents of every dollar bill that comes in is audited and guaranteed to go right back into the ground.
That doesn't leave much cap for "high wages", especially in today's world.
There's an opening for a Regional Director online, maybe you should take the job and try to make $60k work for your family.
The worst is muley fanatic foundation. Those guys are clowns and pay themselves an outrageous amount compared to # of members and revenue. As much as I hate the MDF out of many of the many hunting org's they seem to be lean on the top end.Want to quit going to any of the banquets for any of the "conservation" groups. Just look at the salaries they are getting paid. I really quit paying into the MDF when I saw a hunting show where I can't remember if it was the president of the mdf or just another high up came from back east and was on his 1st ever mule deer hunt. Maybe I'm weird but that bugged me haha.
Hey Hossy?
Just Curious To What Kinda Bucks You Were Shooting When You Were 3.5?
The worst is muley fanatic foundation. Those guys are clowns and pay themselves an outrageous amount compared to # of members and revenue. As much as I hate the MDF out of many of the many hunting org's they seem to be lean on the top end.
Damn. I forgot about them.$fw has entered the discussion
Finally SS speaks the truth.$fw has entered the discussion
Thank you for posting.I don't think the salary of the CEO etc is outrageous or out of line. Here's a link showing a lot of the financials. Definitely not as bad as other hunting conservation organizations:
Mule Deer Foundation - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica
Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.projects.propublica.org
Key Employees and Officers | Compensation |
Joel Pedersen (CEO) | $190,000 |
Steve Belinda (Director) | $121,716 |
Jeremy Snitker (CFO) | $111,375 |
Jared Wire (Director) | $103,998 |
Brian Fienhold (COO) | $69,462 |
Based on 44hrs/week
In 2022 Joel Pederson made $83/hr
in 2019, Miles Moretti made $95/hr
Even if Mule deer were doing great, this seems excessive to me.
Key Employees and Officers Compensation Joel Pedersen (CEO) $190,000 Steve Belinda (Director) $121,716 Jeremy Snitker (CFO) $111,375 Jared Wire (Director) $103,998 Brian Fienhold (COO) $69,462
What got edited?Edited By Moderator
Where have I not? Also don’t confuse opinions with facts.Finally SS speaks the truth.
Ever seen a red rider vs cottontail?
That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.Based on 44hrs/week
In 2022 Joel Pederson made $83/hr
in 2019, Miles Moretti made $95/hr
Even if Mule deer were doing great, this seems excessive to me.
Key Employees and Officers Compensation Joel Pedersen (CEO) $190,000 Steve Belinda (Director) $121,716 Jeremy Snitker (CFO) $111,375 Jared Wire (Director) $103,998 Brian Fienhold (COO) $69,462
That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.
There are grifters in every “cause” these ones just happen to be working one you are familiar with.That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.
And, why do they need a CEO and 2 directors to the tune of >$400?
You've got it completely backwards.......we "spoon feed" the DNR with truck loads of cash.That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.
And, why do they need a CEO and 2 directors to the tune of >$400?
I didn't realize the benefits were factored in so I feel a little better now, but there is still alot I don't agree with. As for MFF I had full intentions of signing up for the lifetime membership when I moved up here but then I got looking into it and I completely agree with what you said.That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.
Has the success of the RMEF played a role in the steady decline in mule deer populations? Honest question as I've heard from a lot of old timers about the "good old days" when they would "see 4 points all over and it was rare to see a branch antlered bull". Have game and fish ignored swelling elk numbers and their possible cause of shrinking deer numbers due to profit?? Kind of sidetracking the intent of the point and most of the arguments made up until this point but I just don't think the elk/deer relationship is talked about enough.
Is the growing Elk numbers causing deer numbers to decline? You know ever since the Elk numbers started growing the deer numbers have been declining and that's not just in Utah but Colorado as well.Maybe reach out to the RMEF. Now there is an organization that gets stuff done.
For sure! And there’s been research on it. But sit back and let MDF tell you how much money they have raised!Is the growing Elk numbers causing deer numbers to decline? You know ever since the Elk numbers started growing the deer numbers have been declining and that's not just in Utah but Colorado as well.
If you don't believe me do your research.
The profit meant nothing more than elk tags cost substantially more than deer tags. The "old timers" just commented that their observations have been that as elk numbers have gone up, deer numbers have gone down. There is obviously much more than just that going on but to just completely discount their observations is ignorant at best.Due to "profit". Whatever that means.
So somehow, because math is hard, losing 140,000 deer hunters but gaining 30-35,000 elk hunters was profitable?
So, the idea of these "old timers" is that if we just killed all the elk, the deer would magically return?
This thread is getting side tracked, I love it. I believe you can have healthy populations of both deer and elk in many areas. This is based off seeing it in the past. No doubt the glory days of mule deer hunting you sure as hell didn't hear about elk hunting being "AWESOME". Some could argue that the good old days of elk hunting is now or was recently. Not to say the record book is an indicator of health of one ungulate over another but see the entries for elk compared to deer over the last 25 years.The profit meant nothing more than elk tags cost substantially more than deer tags. The "old timers" just commented that their observations have been that as elk numbers have gone up, deer numbers have gone down. There is obviously much more than just that going on but to just completely discount their observations is ignorant at best.
Great question. Maybe we can hire the MDF to go interview the RMEF and put out a video. It could be titled:What has the RMEF done that the MDF hasn’t ( other than not being successful) that makes the RMEF successful.
Yeah I mean the shoot the **** outta them policies clearly aren’t working… I mean wait that’s conservation right?Great question. Maybe we can hire the MDF to go interview the RMEF and put out a video. It could be titled:
38 years of Awesome Conservation...with animals to hunt
Killing off the Mule deer for 38 years, how we successfully put better tasting animals all over the US
The 3 2 1 method for elk ribs and conservation
No one gives out the secret sauce recipe! And everyone knows it’s not the ingredients that make it amazing it’s the process!Yeah I mean the shoot the **** outta them policies clearly aren’t working… I mean wait that’s conservation right?
Edit to be serious: I’m genuinely curious what the RMEF has done differently to be so successful. Obviously a different species and maybe the strategy isn’t the same.
Shoot ‘‘em all = excellent mule deer populationsNo one gives out the secret sauce recipe! And everyone knows it’s not the ingredients that make it amazing it’s the process!
They were probably class 3 bucks…Hey Hossy?
Just Curious To What Kinda Bucks You Were Shooting When You Were 3.5?
When you run out of more unsubstantiated BS to spew simply out of your childish spite for me, why don't you explain why the Forest Service and BLM just signed 5 year agreements SOLELY with the MDF for $65 million dollars and didn't offer single copper penny to any other conservation group?This thread is getting side tracked, I love it. I believe you can have healthy populations of both deer and elk in many areas. This is based off seeing it in the past. No doubt the glory days of mule deer hunting you sure as hell didn't hear about elk hunting being "AWESOME". Some could argue that the good old days of elk hunting is now or was recently. Not to say the record book is an indicator of health of one ungulate over another but see the entries for elk compared to deer over the last 25 years.
To relate this elk discussion to the thread if we are to blame elk and the RMEF for the lack of success of the MDF I would say it would be better to discuss with RMEF and see if they could either
1) Take over the MDF
2) Start a new Mule Deer organization under the RMEF
3) Ignore making fancy videos, talking about money, and not having any success. And focus on what they do best. Putting more elk on the mountain.
If the MDF is even a little bit interested in actually putting more mule deer on the mountain they should consider one of the 3 options above. Even advocate for it. Hell in the video they want all the organizations to work together. Thats a step in the right direction to relinquish all the money MDF raises and give it to an organization that produces results.
It's been 35 years and nothing. Time to give it up MDF.
"Huh"?“MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component and is committed to recruitment and retention of youth into the shooting sports and conservation.”
Sorry Slammy but wording this “almost apologetic” acceptance of the hunting culture and using youth “shooting sports” is a backhanded attempt to straddle the fence, (not at all unlike the RMEF tried to do to keep wolf lovers from jumping ship back in the 90’s.) Makes me sick to my stomach, in spite of all the other good things MDF does for mule deer habitat.
You should send an email to Joel Pedersen at [email protected] or call 801-973-3940 and ask him to email you MDF’s position on allowing scopes with magnification on muzzleloaders. He should care, if it’s harmful or unethical or advantageous and if, as he says, MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component, he should be willing to write an opinion on a mule hunting issue."Huh"?
2lumpy I respect your comments but you are off on this one.
No, lumpy, he's right, you are way off on this one.You should send an email to Joel Pedersen at [email protected] or call 801-973-3940 and ask him to email you MDF’s position on allowing scopes with magnification on muzzleloaders. He should care, if it’s harmful or unethical or advantageous and if, as he says, MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component, he should be willing to write an opinion on a mule hunting issue.
Then get back to me and let me know how far off I am.
All due respect to you and MDF Slammy, but don’t you think it’s a little contradictory to say; “No, lumpy, he's right, you are way off on this one.
The MDF isn't an advocate or a voice in hunting, they are a conservation group who's focus and purpose is doing habitat work.
You should contact SFW and ask their stance.
Or I could save you the work and tell you that they support the muzzleloader scope restrictions.
I know this as fact because they hold a seat on this committee.
Then one paragraph later say this; “The MDF isn't an advocate or a voice in hunting, they are a conservation group who's focus and purpose is doing habitat work
Or I could save you the work and tell you that they support the muzzleloader scope restrictions. I know this as fact because they hold a seat on this committee.
This guy understandsI think most conservation groups have their place and do good projects. I do question where the deer herds would be without any habitat restoration. Car crashes on highways, disrupted migration corridors, building homes in their winter range habitat, guns that can shoot 1,000 plus yards, drought, starvation, disease, etc. It's a miracle that we still have as many deer as we do have. I say if people want to put money on the ground to grow groceries that's great - but, we need more shoppers. So, how do we grow our herds? We comprehensively target predators, build fences and wildlife crossings along highways, stop having antlerless hunts, and recognize that we don't have nearly as much control over the herds as nature does.
And this guy doesn’t ?This guy understands
They have more employees, it’s just the key employees are listed. I provided a link above that lists the others….Kind of wierd they show only 2 employees as key but another 1.7 million unaccounted for?View attachment 116766
I think most conservation groups have their place and do good projects. I do question where the deer herds would be without any habitat restoration. Car crashes on highways, disrupted migration corridors, building homes in their winter range habitat, guns that can shoot 1,000 plus yards, drought, starvation, disease, etc. It's a miracle that we still have as many deer as we do have. I say if people want to put money on the ground to grow groceries that's great - but, we need more shoppers. So, how do we grow our herds? We comprehensively target predators, build fences and wildlife crossings along highways, stop having antlerless hunts, and recognize that we don't have nearly as much control over the herds as nature does.
Second thing that should happen is you posting your boot video. @elkassassinThe Very First F'N Thing That Would & Should Happen Is There Wouldn't Be A BABY-MAKER Hunt Anywhere In This State!
I agree 100%The Very First F'N Thing That Would & Should Happen Is There Wouldn't Be A BABY-MAKER Hunt Anywhere In This State!
It’s always great to get the opinions of non hunters. I agree with you 124%The Very First F'N Thing That Would & Should Happen Is There Wouldn't Be A BABY-MAKER Hunt Anywhere In This State!