35 Years Of Awesome Conservation

talk about a propaganda piece! Adolf would be proud. Especially the part where the guy says everyone needs to be the same and all head in the same direction.

If you don’t have 20 mins to watch here’s a summary:

Lots of video of bucks that live on land virtually closed to hunting, lots of talk of money, need more money aka members. Brief talk of them now helping blacktail deer (RIP blacktail) and NO mention of mule deer numbers. That would go against the narrative, MONEY.

Wonder how much “conservation” money was spent to make that video?

MDF, doesn’t matter how much money you raised or what you’ve done, the results speak for themself. It’s not working. Maybe reach out to the RMEF. Now there is an organization that gets stuff done.
 
SS! said:
talk about a propaganda piece! Adolf would be proud. Especially the part where the guy says everyone needs to be the same and all head in the same direction.

If you don’t have 20 mins to watch here’s a summary:

Lots of video of bucks that live on land virtually closed to hunting, lots of talk of money, need more money aka members. Brief talk of them now helping blacktail deer (RIP blacktail) and NO mention of mule deer numbers. That would go against the narrative, MONEY.

Wonder how much “conservation” money was spent to make that video?

MDF, doesn’t matter how much money you raised or what you’ve done, the results speak for themself. It’s not working. Maybe reach out to the RMEF. Now there is an organization that gets stuff done.
Click to expand...
It’s hard to argue SS!’s logic on this one. Whatever time and treasure has or hasn’t been spent mule deer conservation hasn’t proven to have been effective on any large scale level. Definitely not in comparison to elk and whitetail deer, or even antelope, that doesn’t even have a national conservation organization behind its ups and down in numbers.
 
I love slam. Straight up, dude puts his effort where his mouth is.

But, and you knew it was coming, I hunt the same area I've hunted since is was 3.5 years.

The only real habitat change is from the ranchers plowing sage to grow hay.

Perhaps if your on a LE unit that sells 6 figure tags, there has been change, but honestly despite the 10's of millions $FW and MDF have taken in, there's zero noticable benefit in my area.

But slam busts his ass, where I don't, so he deserves nothing but love
 
hossblur said:
I love slam. Straight up, dude puts his effort where his mouth is.

But, and you knew it was coming, I hunt the same area I've hunted since is was 3.5 years.

The only real habitat change is from the ranchers plowing sage to grow hay.

Perhaps if your on a LE unit that sells 6 figure tags, there has been change, but honestly despite the 10's of millions $FW and MDF have taken in, there's zero noticable benefit in my area.

But slam busts his ass, where I don't, so he deserves nothing but love
Click to expand...
Thanks Hossy, you're a good dude ?

And for the record, I also question why our herds continue to dwindle while we are putting millions back into conservation.

But then I ask "where would we be without it?" and my question is satisfied.

The entire state doesn't have multiple projects going on at once, it takes decades to make improvements and having been involved in several around the state I know certain areas are prioritized.
If your particular area could use some help, reach out to the DNR's habitat coordinator and just ask a few questions.

Just as J Shirley states in the video, without the money raised by MDF and other outsourcing, the current projects across our state simply wouldn't be possible, including the man power.

Do away with these dollars and watch every single guzzler across the west dry up and rot away in the sun.
Watch fencing projects along highways cease.
Watch crossings disappear and highway mortality rise even higher.
Watch the burn scars get overtaken with noxious weeds.
And watch ALL wildlife lose millions of acres of habitat and succumb to urban sprawl and dwindling winter range.

I am a Life Member of the MDF because I am part of where the money comes from and where it ends up.

We don't need SS's measly $35, he can spend it on more Bud Lights, but we will proudly continue the mission without him so he can reap the benefits regardless.
 
Slamdunk, thank you for your efforts on the ground in the field or at Banquets trying to raise money for projects ect! The West has seen an explosion of people and everything that goes along with that since the 70s and 80s. Literally I don't need to say anything else as to why Mule Deer are struggling.

They are a complex animal, and their survival isn't as easy as living on a 10 acre parcel like a Whitetail can. If in 35 years the Mule Deer Foundation helped just a handful of Mule Deer with a wildlife friendly fence, a wildlife crossing, or a few guzzlers, then it was all worth it to me.
 
Hey Hossy?

Just Curious To What Kinda Bucks You Were Shooting When You Were 3.5?



hossblur said:
I love slam. Straight up, dude puts his effort where his mouth is.

But, and you knew it was coming, I hunt the same area I've hunted since is was 3.5 years.

The only real habitat change is from the ranchers plowing sage to grow hay.

Perhaps if your on a LE unit that sells 6 figure tags, there has been change, but honestly despite the 10's of millions $FW and MDF have taken in, there's zero noticable benefit in my area.

But slam busts his ass, where I don't, so he deserves nothing but love
Click to expand...
 
slamdunk said:
But then I ask "where would we be without it?" and my question is satisfied.
Click to expand...
There it is! Well we’ve spent 35 years and no results so let’s do the cop out. Called it out in post 6 ?
slamdunk said:
Do away with these dollars and watch every single guzzler across the west dry up and rot away in the sun.
Watch fencing projects along highways cease.
Watch crossings disappear and highway mortality rise even higher.
Watch the burn scars get overtaken with noxious weeds.
And watch ALL wildlife lose millions of acres of habitat and succumb to urban sprawl and dwindling winter range.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. Stop with the scare tactics. There are plenty of other organizations doing the same thing.

slamdunk said:
I am a Life Member of the MDF because I am part of where the money comes from and where it ends up.

We don't need SS's measly $35, he can spend it on more Bud Lights, but we will proudly continue the mission without him so he can reap the benefits regardless.
Click to expand...
Like a true MDF kool aid drinker you have to bring up money. I’m pretty sure I could dig up a pic of you with bud light. I don’t care what people drink, it’s weird that you do. I don’t drink bud light but it has nothing to do with their drama. If it tasted good I would drink it, I don’t care what others think. I don’t follow the herd like you do.

What benefits am I reaping from the MDF? No one is benefiting from them. Let’s hope to gawd the RMEF branches out to Mule Deer. If the MDF was a business it would have went broke a long time ago. They are horrible at what they do, the proof is in the numbers. Don’t tell me how much money you raise MDF, show me healthy deer herds from the money you spent.

Instead we have MDF saying the pausy is the best tag in Utah and they kill a 160 buck.

I will hand it to the MDF, it’s so close to rock bottom that here soon the only way is up. Let the deer herds get so bad that any improvement will make it look like they know what they’re doing. Well played. 35 years of running it into the ground…
 
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Looks like MDF can’t handle the heat. They turned off the comments to their video. I wonder why? Wish I could have left them one ? Yet all their other videos you can leave comments….

8F81B930-A87E-44CB-876E-29D3A0C37877.jpeg
 
The jury is still out for me. Like SS has said, take a look around, it's pretty bad out there if your a mule deer. I don't trust organizations with spending the money properly or even theft of the funds. Elk do seem to be better off with the efforts put towards them. I use to be a dues paying member off several of these organizations...not anymore.
 
I’m not sure why @slamdunk had to bring up bud light but a quick search turns up quite a few photos of bud light being drank at MDF banquets.

Cut off sleeves and bud light…FOR CONSERVATION
2B99DCD0-E15A-415D-B702-CF6819360DB1.png
 
OK, so the RMEF is a success and the MDF is a failure- because of the herd numbers today? Laughable. I suppose the Audobon society is a complete and utter failure too since 50 bird species went extinct on their watch. Clearly, totally worthless. But wait- eagles have made an extraordinary comeback in the last 50 years! Total success!

Mule Deer are "failing" because of so many factors which are understood and not understood that no one group is gonna change the overall direction- except the policies of the state wildlife agencies which prioritize elk over deer. Now I suppose you could lay some blame on the MDF for not pressuring those agencies to lay off the lucrative elk hunting focus- good luck with that.

Now I'll hunker down for the critical onslaught :ROFLMAO:
 
Want to quit going to any of the banquets for any of the "conservation" groups. Just look at the salaries they are getting paid. I really quit paying into the MDF when I saw a hunting show where I can't remember if it was the president of the mdf or just another high up came from back east and was on his 1st ever mule deer hunt. Maybe I'm weird but that bugged me haha.
 
Wyo_Roadhunter said:
Want to quit going to any of the banquets for any of the "conservation" groups. Just look at the salaries they are getting paid. I really quit paying into the MDF when I saw a hunting show where I can't remember if it was the president of the mdf or just another high up came from back east and was on his 1st ever mule deer hunt. Maybe I'm weird but that bugged me haha.
Click to expand...
Go look online at salaries of the less than two handfuls of paid employees and get back to us with true facts, not vomit.
86 cents of every dollar bill that comes in is audited and guaranteed to go right back into the ground.
That doesn't leave much cap for "high wages", especially in today's world.

There's an opening for a Regional Director online, maybe you should take the job and try to make $60k work for your family.
 
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HikeHunt61 said:
OK, so the RMEF is a success and the MDF is a failure- because of the herd numbers today? Laughable. I suppose the Audobon society is a complete and utter failure too since 50 bird species went extinct on their watch. Clearly, totally worthless. But wait- eagles have made an extraordinary comeback in the last 50 years! Total success!

Mule Deer are "failing" because of so many factors which are understood and not understood that no one group is gonna change the overall direction- except the policies of the state wildlife agencies which prioritize elk over deer. Now I suppose you could lay some blame on the MDF for not pressuring those agencies to lay off the lucrative elk hunting focus- good luck with that.

Now I'll hunker down for the critical onslaught :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
You can't argue with success. Laugh at it all you want but look at the elk population in this country. Look at the success of getting elk back in the east. Key land purchases. The list goes on. Elk are flourishing. Even with the big bad wolves being brought in. Your Audobon society example is weak at best. The MDF is trying to conserve one species....very poorly.

I agree there are many factors on decline of mule deer. No one isn't saying that. But I will disagree that one group can't have success. Look at what the W$F has done in some of the desert areas for sheep. The RMBS in colorado. RMEF. Ducks Unlimited. MDF? Not so much. And to make a video celebrating 35 years as some sort of a success? Very sad. And the fixation on money is equally if not more so sad.
 
HH61, I believe you hit it out of the ballpark.?
I do belive we will see success in the future of muley deer by understanding their migration patterns and the fact muley deer will flourish in one canyon that seems to have little to offer in the way of good habitat but the next canyon over has everything you would think deer would love but that canyon has only but a few deer in it.
We need to stop envisioning muley deer from a painting done by Leon Parsons or Brent Todd and start seeing them as a animal that has it's basic needs but sometimes them needs are complex and not the way we intended to fulfill them.
Thanks Slamdunk, I know guys like you are doing great work.
 
slamdunk said:
Go look online at salaries of the less than two handfuls of paid employees and get back to us with true facts, not vomit.
86 cents of every dollar bill that comes in is audited and guaranteed to go right back into the ground.
That doesn't leave much cap for "high wages", especially in today's world.

There's an opening for a Regional Director online, maybe you should take the job and try to make $60k work for your family.
Click to expand...
I don't think the salary of the CEO etc is outrageous or out of line. Here's a link showing a lot of the financials. Definitely not as bad as other hunting conservation organizations:

projects.propublica.org

Mule Deer Foundation - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.
projects.propublica.org
 
Wyo_Roadhunter said:
Want to quit going to any of the banquets for any of the "conservation" groups. Just look at the salaries they are getting paid. I really quit paying into the MDF when I saw a hunting show where I can't remember if it was the president of the mdf or just another high up came from back east and was on his 1st ever mule deer hunt. Maybe I'm weird but that bugged me haha.
Click to expand...
The worst is muley fanatic foundation. Those guys are clowns and pay themselves an outrageous amount compared to # of members and revenue. As much as I hate the MDF out of many of the many hunting org's they seem to be lean on the top end.
 
Has the success of the RMEF played a role in the steady decline in mule deer populations? Honest question as I've heard from a lot of old timers about the "good old days" when they would "see 4 points all over and it was rare to see a branch antlered bull". Have game and fish ignored swelling elk numbers and their possible cause of shrinking deer numbers due to profit?? Kind of sidetracking the intent of the point and most of the arguments made up until this point but I just don't think the elk/deer relationship is talked about enough.
 
SS! said:
I don't think the salary of the CEO etc is outrageous or out of line. Here's a link showing a lot of the financials. Definitely not as bad as other hunting conservation organizations:

projects.propublica.org

Mule Deer Foundation - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.
projects.propublica.org
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting.
 
Based on 44hrs/week
In 2022 Joel Pederson made $83/hr
in 2019, Miles Moretti made $95/hr

Even if Mule deer were doing great, this seems excessive to me.

Key Employees and OfficersCompensation
Joel Pedersen (CEO)$190,000
Steve Belinda (Director)$121,716
Jeremy Snitker (CFO)$111,375
Jared Wire (Director)$103,998
Brian Fienhold (COO)$69,462
 
elkantlers said:
Based on 44hrs/week
In 2022 Joel Pederson made $83/hr
in 2019, Miles Moretti made $95/hr

Even if Mule deer were doing great, this seems excessive to me.

Key Employees and OfficersCompensation
Joel Pedersen (CEO)$190,000
Steve Belinda (Director)$121,716
Jeremy Snitker (CFO)$111,375
Jared Wire (Director)$103,998
Brian Fienhold (COO)$69,462
Click to expand...

Plus cost of dinners, golf games, spa day and other expenses?

What ruined me on these organizations was sfw. The lies how they were solely responsible for us to hunt wolves in wyoming. Never saw sfw at any meeting but they sure did take the credit. After that banquet sfw was done which a group organized. Was that new group BHA @BuzzH ? I remember after that banquet letters coming out in the mail
 
Where I live and mostly hunt, the habitat is pretty much unchanged in the 40-50 years I've been watching. Still big ranches and the same grazing. Maybe better alfalfa and a few more center pivots versus flood irrigation. All in all, better habitat. More waters developed too.

We have 10X as many lions and many times more bears. Both lethal predators on mule deer. We also have many times (5-10X) as many elk as 50 years ago.

We do have CWD, but it is overblown by G&F.

To me, the mule deer answer is simple. Game and Fish used to give you a free bear license when you bought an elk license in Wyoming. Now bears are all but protected.

Society has decided that predators are needed. (See griz and wolves). Where possible, we need to declare war on all predators. Make lions and bears predatory animals, as lions are classified in some state. Kill them all, year round on sight. Start programs to kill coyotes. Bounties, trapping incentives, etc. (But how do you do this in states like CA and CO where trapping is illegal?)

South Dakota has a predator program wherein the state pays youth to trap critters. The kids get paid for the tails. SD also gives away traps to kids and provides other gifts and incentives. Seems like they get it. Somehow other states simply have moved mule deer to a lower priority on the list. Wyoming is pretty restrictive on lions and bears. and emphasis on killing coyotes has diminished. G&F rarely will acknowledge the impact of predators. All talk is CWD and habitat.

Again, there is a generational slide toward a more urban and predator-friendly mindsets in society. The people who now run our G&F simply will never allow us to effectively manage predators like we did when we had 1080 and wolves and griz were not even on our register. (That was when we had LOTS of mule deer.)

I just got back from a good scouting run to Western WY, in Region G. It was bleak for mule deer. But I saw hundreds and hundreds of elk. Could it be possible that a century of feeding one species and starving another is finally resulting in what you would expect? Yup, tons more elk, lots of calves, all fat and healthy. Very few deer, almost no fawns.

I'm a life member of the MDF. Did it decades ago when it started. But now, I'm sad I feel their primary role is as a fundraiser for wildlife agencies. I was hopeful they'd take a different track. It does seem to me it's more about money than the critters. So I spend my $$ doing stuff I can actually see and do directly.

Anyway, in our area it is not complicated. Habitat is good, just like the 1950's to the 70's. Management and society have changed. Those changes have devastated mule deer. Not rocket science, just observational common sense.
 
elkantlers said:
Based on 44hrs/week
In 2022 Joel Pederson made $83/hr
in 2019, Miles Moretti made $95/hr

Even if Mule deer were doing great, this seems excessive to me.

Key Employees and OfficersCompensation
Joel Pedersen (CEO)$190,000
Steve Belinda (Director)$121,716
Jeremy Snitker (CFO)$111,375
Jared Wire (Director)$103,998
Brian Fienhold (COO)$69,462
Click to expand...
That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.
 
SS! said:
That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.
Click to expand...
That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.

And, why do they need a CEO and 2 directors to the tune of >$400?
 
elkantlers said:
That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.

And, why do they need a CEO and 2 directors to the tune of >$400?
Click to expand...
There are grifters in every “cause” these ones just happen to be working one you are familiar with.
 
elkantlers said:
That's true, however it still seems excessive based on Utahs median income of around $80k. I mean what are they doing that's so special? It's not like there is any competition. The UDWR pretty much spoon feeds them truck loads of cash.

And, why do they need a CEO and 2 directors to the tune of >$400?
Click to expand...
You've got it completely backwards.......we "spoon feed" the DNR with truck loads of cash.
Listen to J Shirley's comments.
 
SS! said:
That’s not entirely true. That factors in their benefits. I get what you’re saying but it’s misleading.
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I didn't realize the benefits were factored in so I feel a little better now, but there is still alot I don't agree with. As for MFF I had full intentions of signing up for the lifetime membership when I moved up here but then I got looking into it and I completely agree with what you said.

To clear things up the volunteers that are putting in time for these good on you and thanks for donating your time and the work I think you guys are in it because you really do care about wildlife but I still stand by what I said in my 1st post.

So on that note sorry slamdunk I'll have to pass on applying for the online regional director I think I'm probably better at being a mechanic than doing that job but thanks for the offer.
 
accubond said:
Has the success of the RMEF played a role in the steady decline in mule deer populations? Honest question as I've heard from a lot of old timers about the "good old days" when they would "see 4 points all over and it was rare to see a branch antlered bull". Have game and fish ignored swelling elk numbers and their possible cause of shrinking deer numbers due to profit?? Kind of sidetracking the intent of the point and most of the arguments made up until this point but I just don't think the elk/deer relationship is talked about enough.
Click to expand...


Due to "profit". Whatever that means.


So somehow, because math is hard, losing 140,000 deer hunters but gaining 30-35,000 elk hunters was profitable?

So, the idea of these "old timers" is that if we just killed all the elk, the deer would magically return?
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Is the growing Elk numbers causing deer numbers to decline? You know ever since the Elk numbers started growing the deer numbers have been declining and that's not just in Utah but Colorado as well.
If you don't believe me do your research.
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For sure! And there’s been research on it. But sit back and let MDF tell you how much money they have raised!
 
hossblur said:
Due to "profit". Whatever that means.


So somehow, because math is hard, losing 140,000 deer hunters but gaining 30-35,000 elk hunters was profitable?

So, the idea of these "old timers" is that if we just killed all the elk, the deer would magically return?
Click to expand...
The profit meant nothing more than elk tags cost substantially more than deer tags. The "old timers" just commented that their observations have been that as elk numbers have gone up, deer numbers have gone down. There is obviously much more than just that going on but to just completely discount their observations is ignorant at best.
 
accubond said:
The profit meant nothing more than elk tags cost substantially more than deer tags. The "old timers" just commented that their observations have been that as elk numbers have gone up, deer numbers have gone down. There is obviously much more than just that going on but to just completely discount their observations is ignorant at best.
Click to expand...
This thread is getting side tracked, I love it. I believe you can have healthy populations of both deer and elk in many areas. This is based off seeing it in the past. No doubt the glory days of mule deer hunting you sure as hell didn't hear about elk hunting being "AWESOME". Some could argue that the good old days of elk hunting is now or was recently. Not to say the record book is an indicator of health of one ungulate over another but see the entries for elk compared to deer over the last 25 years.

To relate this elk discussion to the thread if we are to blame elk and the RMEF for the lack of success of the MDF I would say it would be better to discuss with RMEF and see if they could either

1) Take over the MDF
2) Start a new Mule Deer organization under the RMEF
3) Ignore making fancy videos, talking about money, and not having any success. And focus on what they do best. Putting more elk on the mountain.

If the MDF is even a little bit interested in actually putting more mule deer on the mountain they should consider one of the 3 options above. Even advocate for it. Hell in the video they want all the organizations to work together. Thats a step in the right direction to relinquish all the money MDF raises and give it to an organization that produces results.

It's been 35 years and nothing. Time to give it up MDF.
 
What has the RMEF done that the MDF hasn’t ( other than not being successful) that makes the RMEF successful.
 
Rie bread said:
What has the RMEF done that the MDF hasn’t ( other than not being successful) that makes the RMEF successful.
Click to expand...
Great question. Maybe we can hire the MDF to go interview the RMEF and put out a video. It could be titled:

38 years of Awesome Conservation...with animals to hunt

Killing off the Mule deer for 38 years, how we successfully put better tasting animals all over the US

The 3 2 1 method for elk ribs and conservation

:D
 
SS! said:
Great question. Maybe we can hire the MDF to go interview the RMEF and put out a video. It could be titled:

38 years of Awesome Conservation...with animals to hunt

Killing off the Mule deer for 38 years, how we successfully put better tasting animals all over the US

The 3 2 1 method for elk ribs and conservation

:D
Click to expand...
Yeah I mean the shoot the **** outta them policies clearly aren’t working… I mean wait that’s conservation right?

Edit to be serious: I’m genuinely curious what the RMEF has done differently to be so successful. Obviously a different species and maybe the strategy isn’t the same.
 
Rie bread said:
Yeah I mean the shoot the **** outta them policies clearly aren’t working… I mean wait that’s conservation right?

Edit to be serious: I’m genuinely curious what the RMEF has done differently to be so successful. Obviously a different species and maybe the strategy isn’t the same.
Click to expand...
No one gives out the secret sauce recipe! And everyone knows it’s not the ingredients that make it amazing it’s the process!
 
SS! said:
This thread is getting side tracked, I love it. I believe you can have healthy populations of both deer and elk in many areas. This is based off seeing it in the past. No doubt the glory days of mule deer hunting you sure as hell didn't hear about elk hunting being "AWESOME". Some could argue that the good old days of elk hunting is now or was recently. Not to say the record book is an indicator of health of one ungulate over another but see the entries for elk compared to deer over the last 25 years.

To relate this elk discussion to the thread if we are to blame elk and the RMEF for the lack of success of the MDF I would say it would be better to discuss with RMEF and see if they could either

1) Take over the MDF
2) Start a new Mule Deer organization under the RMEF
3) Ignore making fancy videos, talking about money, and not having any success. And focus on what they do best. Putting more elk on the mountain.

If the MDF is even a little bit interested in actually putting more mule deer on the mountain they should consider one of the 3 options above. Even advocate for it. Hell in the video they want all the organizations to work together. Thats a step in the right direction to relinquish all the money MDF raises and give it to an organization that produces results.

It's been 35 years and nothing. Time to give it up MDF.
Click to expand...
When you run out of more unsubstantiated BS to spew simply out of your childish spite for me, why don't you explain why the Forest Service and BLM just signed 5 year agreements SOLELY with the MDF for $65 million dollars and didn't offer single copper penny to any other conservation group?
I'll even provide you the link to read it for your smallman self.
muledeer.org

MDF Announces Major New Partnerships USFS and BLM

MDF announces expanded partnerships with USFS and the BLM, leveraging millions of dollars to implement deer habitat restoration projects.
muledeer.org muledeer.org
 
“MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component and is committed to recruitment and retention of youth into the shooting sports and conservation.”

Sorry Slammy but wording this “almost apologetic” acceptance of the hunting culture and using youth “shooting sports” is a backhanded attempt to straddle the fence, (not at all unlike the RMEF tried to do to keep wolf lovers from jumping ship back in the 90’s.) Makes me sick to my stomach, in spite of all the other good things MDF does for mule deer habitat.
 
I read the article. I'd like to see more specifics about the roles and expectations of the MDF, FS and BLM if you have them.

Questions on how decisions are made, local involvement, application processes, areas of emphasis and more come to mind. Seems like there should be a chance for members and the public to help determine how those funds are allocated and used.

The article was kinda "warm and fuzzy" but lacked the details for me to really know what is going to happen. Details would be very helpful.

The funds are a good start (if allocated properly and fairly), but any further information would be appreciated.

Thanks for any further info.
 
2lumpy said:
“MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component and is committed to recruitment and retention of youth into the shooting sports and conservation.”

Sorry Slammy but wording this “almost apologetic” acceptance of the hunting culture and using youth “shooting sports” is a backhanded attempt to straddle the fence, (not at all unlike the RMEF tried to do to keep wolf lovers from jumping ship back in the 90’s.) Makes me sick to my stomach, in spite of all the other good things MDF does for mule deer habitat.
Click to expand...
"Huh"?
2lumpy I respect your comments but you are off on this one.
 
notdonhunting said:
"Huh"?
2lumpy I respect your comments but you are off on this one.
Click to expand...
You should send an email to Joel Pedersen at [email protected] or call 801-973-3940 and ask him to email you MDF’s position on allowing scopes with magnification on muzzleloaders. He should care, if it’s harmful or unethical or advantageous and if, as he says, MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component, he should be willing to write an opinion on a mule hunting issue.

Then get back to me and let me know how far off I am.
 
2lumpy said:
You should send an email to Joel Pedersen at [email protected] or call 801-973-3940 and ask him to email you MDF’s position on allowing scopes with magnification on muzzleloaders. He should care, if it’s harmful or unethical or advantageous and if, as he says, MDF acknowledges regulated hunting as a viable management component, he should be willing to write an opinion on a mule hunting issue.

Then get back to me and let me know how far off I am.
Click to expand...
No, lumpy, he's right, you are way off on this one.

The MDF isn't an advocate or a voice in hunting, they are a conservation group who's focus and purpose is doing habitat work.

You should contact SFW and ask their stance.

Or I could save you the work and tell you that they support the muzzleloader scope restrictions.
I know this as fact because they hold a seat on this committee.
 
slamdunk said:
No, lumpy, he's right, you are way off on this one.

The MDF isn't an advocate or a voice in hunting, they are a conservation group who's focus and purpose is doing habitat work.

You should contact SFW and ask their stance.

Or I could save you the work and tell you that they support the muzzleloader scope restrictions.
I know this as fact because they hold a seat on this committee.
Click to expand...
All due respect to you and MDF Slammy, but don’t you think it’s a little contradictory to say; “
The MDF isn't an advocate or a voice in hunting, they are a conservation group who's focus and purpose is doing habitat work
Click to expand...
Then one paragraph later say this; “
Or I could save you the work and tell you that they support the muzzleloader scope restrictions. I know this as fact because they hold a seat on this committee.
Click to expand...

Surely you can see the contradiction in those two statements. If not…. let me ask a question. If MDF’s focus and purpose is doing habitat work.( which is exactly what I said they would say, because their mission statement says that very clearly) why are they holding a seat on the technology committee and why are voting on any hunting recommendation?

My guess is, they pick and choose, as it suits the current CEO and his board of directors. They hide behind their mission statement when it suits them and advocate and take a voice in hunting issues when they want two. If that’s not straddling a fence, you tell me what it is.

Personally one of the faults I’ve always had with RMEF and MDF is the don’t advocate and put their voice behind hunting issues. Recognizing the risk it has, by pissing a lot of their donors off, over every hunting advocacy position they take, I find it chicken sh!t. Are they improving habitat for the viewing public or the hunting public? If viewing is more important than hunting, they should loose their support from hunting donors. They’re both going to end up be nothing more than another Sierra Club if they don’t quite this BS.

I’m glad MDF has a seat and votes on the technology committee, it’s about damn time. Invite the RMEF too, they should care as well.
 
I think most conservation groups have their place and do good projects. I do question where the deer herds would be without any habitat restoration. Car crashes on highways, disrupted migration corridors, building homes in their winter range habitat, guns that can shoot 1,000 plus yards, drought, starvation, disease, etc. It's a miracle that we still have as many deer as we do have. I say if people want to put money on the ground to grow groceries that's great - but, we need more shoppers. So, how do we grow our herds? We comprehensively target predators, build fences and wildlife crossings along highways, stop having antlerless hunts, and recognize that we don't have nearly as much control over the herds as nature does.
 
dillonhoyt said:
I think most conservation groups have their place and do good projects. I do question where the deer herds would be without any habitat restoration. Car crashes on highways, disrupted migration corridors, building homes in their winter range habitat, guns that can shoot 1,000 plus yards, drought, starvation, disease, etc. It's a miracle that we still have as many deer as we do have. I say if people want to put money on the ground to grow groceries that's great - but, we need more shoppers. So, how do we grow our herds? We comprehensively target predators, build fences and wildlife crossings along highways, stop having antlerless hunts, and recognize that we don't have nearly as much control over the herds as nature does.
Click to expand...
This guy understands ☝️
 
The Very First F'N Thing That Would & Should Happen Is There Wouldn't Be A BABY-MAKER Hunt Anywhere In This State!



dillonhoyt said:
I think most conservation groups have their place and do good projects. I do question where the deer herds would be without any habitat restoration. Car crashes on highways, disrupted migration corridors, building homes in their winter range habitat, guns that can shoot 1,000 plus yards, drought, starvation, disease, etc. It's a miracle that we still have as many deer as we do have. I say if people want to put money on the ground to grow groceries that's great - but, we need more shoppers. So, how do we grow our herds? We comprehensively target predators, build fences and wildlife crossings along highways, stop having antlerless hunts, and recognize that we don't have nearly as much control over the herds as nature does.
Click to expand...
 

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