011, 012, 013 - Where are they?

[MuleyFNG]

Hello All,

I just got back from 3 days up in N. Washoe. Went from Lost Creek Rd to Cherry Mtn, spent the night up on Donnelly Peak, then up north to Steven's Camp. Saw Antelope and Sheep but only a few Muleys. Speaking to the bow hunters and Antelope hunters in those areas they weren't seeing many deer either. We covered a lot of miles, up early and out late.

I'm getting concerned about the up coming hunt next month. I'm wondering if the fires up there really are having an impact on the wildlife in those areas and pushed them further north and east.

I'm bringing my 8yr old daughter on her first hunt and she really wants to see some wildlife and especially one downed by dear old dad...

Thanks for reading.

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get
punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

 

[ThunderBall]

Let me guess: you saw a ton of feral horses?

I think that's the biggest factor effecting the decline of mule deer in those areas. The winters have been mild and there hasn't been a lot of tags issued. The horse populations are now the highest I've ever seen, by far, and I grew up there.

The Feds have finally decided to remove them all from Sheldon. We'll see if that improves the deer herd there.

 

[MuleyFNG]

Geez. How did you guess I saw more horses than all other animals combined?

I thought I was looking in the right spots but am discouraged for sure.


"Everyone has a plan 'till they get
punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

 

[IDbones]

nevadas horses are nearly as bad as idahos wolves, they dont kill the deer but they decimate habitat

 

[moose_wrestler40]

I'd argue they're worse than Idaho wolves. Obviously, you won't see a horse over a kill, but the number of deer, antelope, and elk that that they kill is unsurpassed. Horses greatly diminish the carrying capacity of an ecosystem. Where you have a 1,000 horses, you could expect the land to hold about 4,000 deer or 5,500 goats. Horses don't just overgraze rangelands, they reduce grass, shrub, and forb cover and increase unpalatable forbs and exotic plants, especially cheatgrass.

Additionally, they defecate in and ruin riparian areas, once they are finished with them, thereby rendering them useless for native wildlife.

I would like to give thumbs up to the USFWS, though, for declaring that all feral horses would be removed from the Sheldon w/in 5 years.

 

[Bwht4x4]

My buddy and I had a couple archery pronghorn tags last year in 011. We scouted 3 days and hunted 9 days. I never saw a deer on the hoof other than a few picts from my trail cams. Every buck pict was of some very, very small spikes and forkies too. After that trip I'm not sure I'd want a deer tag in 011. I'd suggest 012 or 013.

 

[mtm6000]

Here is the biggest problem up there.....Atv's have gotten to areas....small areas that the deer hold in. I have spots up there that usually have alot of deer in, but now there are ATV tracks all through and around them.....I have an ATV to get me to the bottom and legs to do the rest. Look in the areas that Atv's are not aloud in. Look in places where deer shouldn't be (because of the ATV use) they have left the places they should be in. Some of the places you scouted in....you missed the deer, they are there.

 

[rmk900]

pm sent

 

[MuleyFNG]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be looking more closely when I get up there for sure. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Tony

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get
punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

 

[Bombardeer]

The bucks are there.....

I helped out a buddy of mine on his archery hunt in the unit group. We spent most of our time in area 011 and a little bit of time in 012. We saw loads (15-20 bucks per day) of bucks in 011, more particularly in the upper elevations in and around the mahoganies. It was a bit tougher to find bucks in 012, but once we stumbled onto one group of bucks we found more. What's more is we only scouted for 2 days and hunted for 3 - Hellen Keller could find bucks in these units.

So, the deer are there, and the better than average, but not blow your socks off quality is there. We came across a handful of bucks that would clear the P&Y mark and one that would probably make the NV Book - buddy missed him 40 yards....a lot of forehead in hand after that one.

Is the average quality anything like the 1980's through early 2000's?....nope. Same goes for the Sheldon. But there are decent numbers of critters running around. The antelope were freaking everywhere...and some really nice bucks to boot.

Horses do impact habitat without a doubt....so does fire with the cheatgrass follow up, and even intense cattle grazing. But the horses have been denser in the past prior to the big roundups in norther Washoe, and the quality was still there. Cattle have been grazing these areas, and the rest of Nevada for that matter, and the quality was still there in the past. Besides the recent blaze through 012 a lot of the unit group has been untouched by fire....but I think that fire, or the lack there of, is largely a culprit of impact believe it or not.

There have been a few studies conducted on range forbs and nutrition that have shown that old growth bitter brush and sage - both mule deer staples - exhibit far lesser nutrition quality compared to new growth bitter brush and sage. And the majority of northern Washoe is old growth sage and bitter brush.

As an non-mule deer related example - it would be tough for us as humans to grow and put on muscle when all that is available is potato chips and liquorish. It's no different for other critters such as deer and antler growth - even if the genetics are there to grow giants.

What's the resolution?? Cool fires without the cheatgrass follow up - but it's nearly impossible to have the first without the latter. A hard nosed catch-22.

 

[NVdrhntr]

hunted lopers on the sheldon and agree the deer are coming back.
The areas with the old burns from 10 or so years ago, catnip etc,
the sage is coming back, but i don't see much new bitterbrush.
will it come back on its own or does it have to be seeded or transplanted?

 

[Bombardeer]

depends on the characteristics of the fire (hot or cool?), where the fire occurred (elevationally, vegetation community, how critical the habitat is - deer winter range or deer transition range), etc.. All of these elements are considered before reclamation/recovery efforts are made. Reclaiming burns isn't cheap and resources are limited (some years, like this year, seed is unavailable in the case of sage), so efforts will be focused to reclaim burned areas that historically serve as important or critical habitat.

Hand planting transplant or nursery bitterbrush planting is labor intensive and more costly than seeding. What's worse is that most planted bitterbrush and sage will not fair well. Changing them from one soil chemistry to another throws them into shock and they struggle to recover. So seeding is then your best bet, but not always a success story.

Upper elevations (7,000+ feet) that burn seem to recover much more readily, as they on average receive more precipitation, and native species like bitterbrush and sage can better compete with cheatgrass with greater soil moisture content.

So, seeding success is dependent on precipitation, but also dependent on the method of application. The 2010-2011 water year was a more than adequate water year for solid seed germination. This past water year on the other hand was not. The application of the seed also plays a part as some seed will germinate more readily if they are scarified (scratched) which allows better moisture penetration to the seed. This is the reason for seed harrowing, and even drilling will cause scarification.

So, there is a lot to consider when planning a reclamation effort, and most struggle to succeed because of competition issues with cheatgrass which requires little moisture and no need for seed scarification to become established.